I know this is a popular thought, but the precise properties of a spring is that they return to their original shape even after flexing millions of times. Springs do no break in. Now other parts of the suspension might settle a bit, which is probably what makes people think the springs have a break-in period. But because the properties of a spring are that they perform exactly the same, over and over again - the ride results would be identical, if not worse because while the spring won't change, the perch, seat, and other parts will tighten up and any play in the system will work its way out.
I can clearly say bu own experience thatsprings settle. I had a volkswagen polo and lowered it extreme,in the front 80mm and back 60mm (as per spring manufacturer specs). As far as u remember the springs started out at 75/55 and went down to 85/65 after a few days!
Tesla is now installing softer coils in new builds...I had them replace my early 3 with the newer suspension and the ride quality is significantly improved (still not as good as the S/X) but still much better. They also replaced the power inverter (no more high pitch noise) and I got a new charge port (even though my old one didn't have any issues).
I posted to Ben in a reply below - but on many cars that have forward collision avoidance and emergency braking, the sensor systems could be affected by changing the ride height and/or the front/back ride balance. We lowered my wife's Audi and because we didn't lower the front and back equally, the forward looking radar was affected. We didn't get any warnings or anything, we just knew from an online forum that the system needed to be checked and re-calibrated. So unless you know all of the car's systems, it can be hard to predict if the changes you made are safe and good all around.
Mark Lawrence totally. There seems to be a lot of talk in the Tesla community about the look of tires, wheels, these rims are great, I could never use those, etc. Lots of attention on the look rather than the function of an actual tire. That’s why I think this video is interesting- smoother ride? WTH?
Hi Ben, thanks for all your great videos. Can you please do a followup video to give detailed feedback about living with the moderate lowering springs for 6 months. Many people on the model 3 forums are searching for this feedback and would greatly appreciate a review. Thanks!
Back in my "fast and furious" I had lowered a tuner SiR Civic. After lowering I noticed my wheels started to angle outward. A Camber kit eventually solved the problem, a set of tires burned out on inside later and horrible traction developed over time. Wondering if you were aware of such issues with lowering and if your installers brought this to your attention. Maybe this "slight" lowering will have no affect.
interesting but didn't the 20 inch wheels make the ride much more firm than stock size? why not just stick with the 18 inch wheel and avoid all the mods?
I am about the lowered life. Prior to recently purchasing my model 3. I owned a 2018 Mustang GT, I lowered it with progressive lowering springs didn't really sacrifice that much in terms of ride quality. I mean in the end, if the road sucks, the ride is going to suck regardless. But the the lowering really improved the handling. Considering these springs, love the stance.
The ride quality issue is the one sticking point holding me back from clicking on purchase with the model 3. Maybe a 2021+ M3 with these springs and 40 Psi in the tires would help with long trips on bumpy interstates....
Sounds like the springs work great. Looks good too with less wheel well gap. When I get my 3, I have to see how it works with my steep driveway. Lowering it may scrape the front end.
Just saw it at the SC. The service manager and I were very impressed with the look of it. Just makes such a difference in looks. I thought it was an S at first. Love it. I asked them to lower mine while it was there :)
I would be interested in how this affects traction while stopping or cornering over a bumpy surface. Typically, springs that give a softer ride will bounce more and lower traction.
Extremely soft springs without good shocks, maybe, but the spring rates are still stiff compared to the land yachts of the 70s and 80s. These springs still offer adequate support for the vehicle and the stock shocks have plenty of damping. Not an issue.
There is a retrofit available for early Model 3’s. They switched the production line over to softer front dampers and front+rear springs at ~VIN 2400. Likely has a similar result minus the lowering.
Ben - it's quite possible to lower the car AND make it ride better. The tradeoff is that you have substantially reduced resistance to the suspension bottoming out and creating very large forces on the car - both on the battery and the frame. The stock springs and ride height are set to deal with a wide range of road and driving conditions. Now I'm a fan of the LOOK, and I've lowered my own cars before. But the combination of losing 1.5 inches of ride height and the reduced resistance to suspension bottoming of the softer springs are a recipe for substantial damage if you happen to hit a pothole or large(r) bump at any significant speed. I think what you did is right on point - as long as you drive on smooth roads without notable road hazards. Otherwise - it is possible it carries substantial risk. I don't know what the repair is for damage to the battery compartment, which is a structural part of the car.
Model S on low is lower than 1.5 drop on a Model 3 and no one bottoms out in the S. It's fine but more pressure on the shocks over time. Mild springs are the best
Would you consider something similar for the Model Y? I'm looking at the mild springs (softer spring rate & 0.7" lower than stock), hoping it would make the ride more tolerable for my dog.
It’s been a while since you asked, but this is just the springs, not the coilovers. The springs are about $450 for the parts. Depending on where you get them done, if you aren’t a DIY guy, $300-700 for installation.
I wish you had a side by side picture of the old springs and new springs so we can see how much variable rate is built into each. Normally lowering the car will make the ride worse, or be so soft and low the suspension bottoms out easily. But if the new springs have a lot more variable coils than the Tesla springs it can actually ride softer over a small bump while having the required high spring rate to prevent bottoming out.
Good info - I would have placed your phone on the floor. You're probably getting a lot of load attenuation through the dash and phone mount. Good results though
Please post vibSensor results for the same course with your Model S, and if possible a non-Tesla for comparison. I have a 2013 Volt, but have the Model 3 on preorder. Thank you!
Once the springs settle a little more, it should look even better. Nice mod. I interpreted the data differently though. There is less travel in your suspension since the spring is more compressed, and this makes the ride typically more harsh. The new springs' spring rate might be better mated for the stock shock absorbers, and it just feels better. If your bottom tells you it feels better, that's all that matters!
Great vid, Ben. Wanted to know about how this might affect the factory warranty? Have 2 M3s on order & 1 week before my delivery estimator window opened, I got the email saying it was shifted... only a month though. I’m in Phoenix.
Man. I'm so lost with what to choose. I have a 2022 model 3 Performance and I know it's alot softer compared to a 2018 model. But I want to go lower but NOT affect ride quality. How to these spring a compare to a new interior update model 3 performance. ?
HI Ben, Consider these spring but concerned about the wear this has on the cambers and risk of scrapping on the bottom. Any insight on this regarding if you had to change any other components (ie. shocks, cambers) since installing? As well, for the everyday drive have you had issues with battery scraping? Would you have considered a different product? Thanks !
Hi ben,did you discuss this with tesla? Any warranty loss?did you gain battery miles?? Which rim in which size is that you ride? -thank you for all your effort!
Ben, As the 20" Sport wheel/tire package is now on Tesla website (3/21/18), i see they also come with 2 x rear upper fore links. What parts are those referring to and how they compare to what you did? Curious as to what kind of upgrade you think were needed for the 20" wheels that you have and if you have had any rubbing issues etc with your wheels. Maybe you can reach out to the people who put them on your car and ask them for their opinions. I want 20" wheels but see this now on teslas site and wonder if they are needed for safety or performance purposes?
I'm trying to figure out if you simply got back the height of the rim by changing the springs. Did adding the new wheels add to the ground clearance of the car or was the rim diameter offset by a shorter tire wall?
Hey Ben, Thanks for the video. I was wondering if you had a chance to check Mountain Pass Performance too? and why you decided to go with Unplugged Performance? just trying to decide. Gracias!!!
Awesome...I don't have a Model 3 but this seems to be a must do modification for the car. Looks great and as you have concluded...makes a significant difference in the ride quality of the vehicle. If I do get a Model 3 at some point I will do the same. Really enjoy 'Teslanomics'.
Ben, does it also lower the total clearance height at the front bumper? 1.5" lowered stance looks great but I guess it will also lower entire vehicle so it will increase chance of scratching the front lip.
right, down to 6.5" from 8" - the actual lowest point of the car however is just behind the back doors, a little rubber fearing drops down just before the back tires
Hello, Heard you raised your model 3 later on I have a model performance live in Michigan pot hole city so on the fence if I should do the lowering or not any advice ?
Hi Ben. This topic touches on something that I've questioned for years and is the core of many discussions I've had with my brother :) ... Basically, if car manufacturers of which I'm sure Tesla is no exception, spend Millions and Millions of Dollars on the research and development of their vehicles in terms of aerodynamics and reliability (MTBF etc), how can the average Joe think that spending a couple of hundred bucks on their car can create an improvement, without compromising some other aspect of the car? An example might be....someone sticking a big spoiler on the rear thinking that they are improving the aerodynamics. Or someone adding an Induction Kit to improve the Air Intake of the old ICE. Do you not think that by lowering your new car, you are compromising the Aerodynamics and possibly the reliability of the suspension? Regardless, Many thanks for the great videos :) John
The factory springs are single rated, these are dual giving smoother cruising and better handling. Tons of tech went into these springs, details in the description and on the product page. Hope this helps!
Single rate springs have more predictably handling characteristics than dual rate. Lowering the car on a softened initial spring rate will increase the likelihood of scraping the bumper on driveways and speed bumps. Lowering on stock struts is not ideal for strut performance and longevity. The better option is a full coil over set with height adjustment, and struts designed for the springs.
Yes, a car company spends billions on development - but that's for thousands of parts for the car! On a per-part basis, Tesla, like most companies, takes what is available on the market already without re-inventing the wheel. Making a 35k car means they cannot put top-of-the-line EVERYTHING in the car. So there are BETTER things out in the market, be it springs, tires, ... and other parts. It's a function of "how much can the engineering department spend on this one single part VS how will it impact performance VS is it important to the customer VS will the average Joe pay for it or will the above-average Joe get a retrofit after market". A careful balance...!! So yes, absolutely, after-market parts are often better, have more research funding, and may be more reliable without compromising the "balance" of the overall car!
Michael Schauer Tesla - like other companies? Hardly. Tesla is one of the only companies that DOESN'T do this. I'm a large investor in the company and as such I have had the opportunity to learn quite a bit about how they design and build cars. I can assure you that they would never EVER compromise the end goal by just using an off-the-shelf component and accept whatever shortcomings it has. Even when using a 3rd party supplier, they spec the parts exactly how they need and have them manufactured to spec.
Eric Fontaine Hmmm a false qualifier... having invested in the company gives you some kind of special knowledge? And you are so wrong. Though I don’t have or even been in a Tesla, I heard that the steering wheel and it’s surrounding equipment is pretty much a Mercedes product? And did Tesla ask their suppliers to spend billions to re-engineer super round wheels, the worlds smoothest ball-bearings? Is their first generation self driving system not an off the shelf product from mobile eye? are their batteries not an off the shelf product from Panasonic?
I like the tighter wheel well look with the new springs, but would be concerned if the travel in the suspension is reduced, as others have mentioned. It may ride smoother until the road gets rougher past the point where the suspension tightens up. It would be good to see a comparison of the OEM setup along with the before and after lowering. I'll have to look at one of the earlier videos.
Thanks for the Vid. Car looks awesome. Does this affect Tesla warranty or is it limited to the part that was changed? Any calibration needed for the cameras?
Lowering wont void the entire warranty. However, if you have issues with shocks, etc. You may not be covered. Since, you went with aftermarket springs.
Super cool! One question came to mind when you showed the 20% decrease slide: can you get data on what % of variance in vibration on average you see between different rides? Or did you already account for that by doing multiple rides and using some average data when you presented your findings? Keep up the great work! Loving my Model 3 so far up here in Seattle.
I test drove in late December 2018 so I can't imagine how much stiffer and bumpy the earlier ones would be. From a scale of 1-10 soft ride to stiff, I would rate the ride as: 2017 Toyota Camry =5 (as a reference point). 2018 Mercedes S450 =10 2017 Cadillac CTS-V =8 2018 Mercedes E450 =8 2018 Lexus LS450 =7 2018 Lexus ES350 =7 My 2014 Toyota Highlander =6 My 2008 Scion xB=4 2018 Jaguar iPace=4 My 2017 Corvette Stingray =3 2017 Porsche 911 Carrera S =3 2019 Alfa Romeo Giulla quadrafoglio=3 2017 Porsche Cayman=1 2018 Tesla Model 3 =2
Sure but he didn't pay for the wheels or the springs so you're doing your math, not his. In the next video he will tell you why you shouldn't buy the model 3 anyway and give you his referral code for free supercharging when you buy a model S that is a much better car in every way. You gotta follow the data!
Shawn Sonnentag how much does the spring replacement cost? How much will they save in better efficiency? I rather put that money towards dual motor, and upgrade the autopilot. I am not interested in lowering the car, or flashy wheels, or interior.
If I somehow got rich in the next year or so (unlikely), I'd go ahead and put your softest springs on which only lower the car 0.7". That would be a good compromise for me. I like softer rides.
Anyone try installing lowering springs on the Model 3 themselves? I have done a few myself on other types of cars. But never on a double wishbone suspension on the front and mult-link suspension for the rear like what the Model 3 has.
Pete James, I said the same thing. Can’t see why without a picture of the Tesla springs. The Performance Unlimited springs are clearly dual rate, but that means nothing without knowing how the original spring as wound. Suspension tuning is one of those things that is really up to personal preference. I’m also surprised lowering the car without changing the dampers didn’t mess up the ride. The good dampers tend to be less dampening near designed ride height and become more dampening as the car is lower, as if you put 1000 pounds of cargo in it. Most people don’t care because they wanted stiffer suspension, which is why the lowered it in the first place. I think air suspension with variable rate and variable dampening is what people will want in a $55,000 car.
The reason that most vehicles get harsher when you lower them is because many shops just cut the springs, which has a major effect on spring rate and travel. Conventional vehicle manufacturers spend a lot of time on chassis dynamics, this is one of the major things they do in the beta phase of car development, with the factory built prototypes. First there is a theoretical analysis, which gives them a starting point for the shocks and springs, then they will run the finished vehicle on a seven post shaker to verify the analysis. Once they get fairly close, then they take the fully instrumented vehicles to several different test tracks to confirm and dial in the final calibration. Tesla skipped most of these steps on the model 3, because the first factory built cars actually went directly to customers. This is basically the reason, any aftermarket manufacture, can make springs and shocks that will deliver much better dynamics in the model 3. As with most things, Tesla shorts The typical vehicle development program, so the first production cars are truly half baked.
David Black, the after market spring end looked like you couldn’t cut it to lower it, or it won’t fit in the spring seat properly. I would never do a modifications like that on a brand new car unless I had Elon Musk’s money. Normally driveline angles are set for proper angle. Lowing the car will change those angles, and void the warranty on CV joints.
IMHO I think you missed my point. My point was that Tesla did a very poor job of balancing the chassis dynamics originally, so it is easy for aftermarket supplier to produce springs and shocks that will improve it dramatically. to get a chassis - shocks - springs that dampen the varying frequency of road bumps is a complicated process that Tesla mostly skipped on Model 3. The ride in Ben’s car improved because they found a better balance in the suspension, most likely it was just dumb luck for the producer of the springs. I have read quite a few online complaints about model 3 suspension being rough. It seems like something with their combination of shocks and spring rate is exciting vibration in the chassis because I do not think it is just too stiff of a setup.
Ben - if you damage the battery pack under the floor somehow - let's say the battery develops a crack or short circuit or something, Tesla could easily say that the lowered suspension put undue structural stress on the car. Might not be an issue - but it's a risk people take modifying their cars. And full disclosure - I have a lowered Audi and a highly modified CTS-V, so I'm one of those folks who do take some risks in making changes. But someone who really needs the warranty needs to be fully aware that there could be situations a bit worse. Let's say AutoPilot acts up or fails to execute lane changes - I'm not sure how tied in to the ride height that is, but without knowing the full spectrum of engineering logic, it's hard to say that by lowering the car you have only affected the ride and nothing else. My CTS-V has special suspension that relies on highly precise position sensors - changing the shocks and springs on the car can significantly alter or even disable things like skid control for example. On my wife's Audi, changing the ride height dramatically affected the emergency braking features. A $600 recalibration was necessary. The Tesla has similar systems for AutoPilot and those, too, could be affected. With my wife's Audi, the car drove just fine - it was only noticeable IF the emergency collision avoidance system activated (which is pretty much never). But knowing this needed to be checked and re-worked could safe our life or at least prevent a costly collision.
Ben, this is a great example of why I am subscribed to this channel! Excellent info and Tez looks so much better without the huge wheel gaps!
you should do the test again after 300 miles, so that your new springs have time to actually break in and give you more accurate results.
I know this is a popular thought, but the precise properties of a spring is that they return to their original shape even after flexing millions of times. Springs do no break in. Now other parts of the suspension might settle a bit, which is probably what makes people think the springs have a break-in period. But because the properties of a spring are that they perform exactly the same, over and over again - the ride results would be identical, if not worse because while the spring won't change, the perch, seat, and other parts will tighten up and any play in the system will work its way out.
I can clearly say bu own experience thatsprings settle. I had a volkswagen polo and lowered it extreme,in the front 80mm and back 60mm (as per spring manufacturer specs). As far as u remember the springs started out at 75/55 and went down to 85/65 after a few days!
a misconception similar to burning in headphones.
Tesla is now installing softer coils in new builds...I had them replace my early 3 with the newer suspension and the ride quality is significantly improved (still not as good as the S/X) but still much better. They also replaced the power inverter (no more high pitch noise) and I got a new charge port (even though my old one didn't have any issues).
I wonder if the springs still apply in 2022-23 for ride quality.
Wondering how it affects your range now?
I posted to Ben in a reply below - but on many cars that have forward collision avoidance and emergency braking, the sensor systems could be affected by changing the ride height and/or the front/back ride balance. We lowered my wife's Audi and because we didn't lower the front and back equally, the forward looking radar was affected. We didn't get any warnings or anything, we just knew from an online forum that the system needed to be checked and re-calibrated.
So unless you know all of the car's systems, it can be hard to predict if the changes you made are safe and good all around.
I wonder how this would play out in a colder climate with lots of speed bumps, potholes, and streets that have not been plowed.
Mark Lawrence totally. There seems to be a lot of talk in the Tesla community about the look of tires, wheels, these rims are great, I could never use those, etc. Lots of attention on the look rather than the function of an actual tire. That’s why I think this video is interesting- smoother ride? WTH?
low profile tires by themselves are enough to get a bad damage from a pothole. Trust my first person experience. No matter how low the car is :D
I'd love to see this data compared to a Model S with air suspension, and some comparable ICE cars too.
Hi Ben, thanks for all your great videos. Can you please do a followup video to give detailed feedback about living with the moderate lowering springs for 6 months. Many people on the model 3 forums are searching for this feedback and would greatly appreciate a review. Thanks!
Chandu Damavarapu YES!!!
Back in my "fast and furious" I had lowered a tuner SiR Civic. After lowering I noticed my wheels started to angle outward. A Camber kit eventually solved the problem, a set of tires burned out on inside later and horrible traction developed over time. Wondering if you were aware of such issues with lowering and if your installers brought this to your attention. Maybe this "slight" lowering will have no affect.
Lots of negative comments about noises ecc from this springs, what’s your opinion after more than a year with them, if you are still using it?
great vid bro, love how you’re not afraid to mod such a new car lol
interesting but didn't the 20 inch wheels make the ride much more firm than stock size? why not just stick with the 18 inch wheel and avoid all the mods?
where's the fun in that?
If you have to ask you're too old. ; )
Does a house settle after being built?
I am about the lowered life. Prior to recently purchasing my model 3. I owned a 2018 Mustang GT, I lowered it with progressive lowering springs didn't really sacrifice that much in terms of ride quality. I mean in the end, if the road sucks, the ride is going to suck regardless. But the the lowering really improved the handling. Considering these springs, love the stance.
The ride quality issue is the one sticking point holding me back from clicking on purchase with the model 3. Maybe a 2021+ M3 with these springs and 40 Psi in the tires would help with long trips on bumpy interstates....
Keep in mind Ben, Springs have to settle. I would do this again after 5k miles and see the results.
Sounds like the springs work great. Looks good too with less wheel well gap. When I get my 3, I have to see how it works with my steep driveway. Lowering it may scrape the front end.
Just saw it at the SC. The service manager and I were very impressed with the look of it. Just makes such a difference in looks. I thought it was an S at first. Love it. I asked them to lower mine while it was there :)
I would be interested in how this affects traction while stopping or cornering over a bumpy surface. Typically, springs that give a softer ride will bounce more and lower traction.
These are dual rated, check the description for more details
Extremely soft springs without good shocks, maybe, but the spring rates are still stiff compared to the land yachts of the 70s and 80s.
These springs still offer adequate support for the vehicle and the stock shocks have plenty of damping. Not an issue.
Tesla Model 3 arrived in Europe this month and the suspension seems lower, without the big gap over the rear wheels. Has Tesla improved this issue?
There is a retrofit available for early Model 3’s. They switched the production line over to softer front dampers and front+rear springs at ~VIN 2400. Likely has a similar result minus the lowering.
Does this kit require camber adjustment? What was total cost installed? Thanks
Ben - it's quite possible to lower the car AND make it ride better. The tradeoff is that you have substantially reduced resistance to the suspension bottoming out and creating very large forces on the car - both on the battery and the frame. The stock springs and ride height are set to deal with a wide range of road and driving conditions. Now I'm a fan of the LOOK, and I've lowered my own cars before. But the combination of losing 1.5 inches of ride height and the reduced resistance to suspension bottoming of the softer springs are a recipe for substantial damage if you happen to hit a pothole or large(r) bump at any significant speed.
I think what you did is right on point - as long as you drive on smooth roads without notable road hazards. Otherwise - it is possible it carries substantial risk. I don't know what the repair is for damage to the battery compartment, which is a structural part of the car.
Model S on low is lower than 1.5 drop on a Model 3 and no one bottoms out in the S. It's fine but more pressure on the shocks over time. Mild springs are the best
Would you consider something similar for the Model Y? I'm looking at the mild springs (softer spring rate & 0.7" lower than stock), hoping it would make the ride more tolerable for my dog.
It’s been a while since you asked, but this is just the springs, not the coilovers. The springs are about $450 for the parts. Depending on where you get them done, if you aren’t a DIY guy, $300-700 for installation.
I wish you had a side by side picture of the old springs and new springs so we can see how much variable rate is built into each. Normally lowering the car will make the ride worse, or be so soft and low the suspension bottoms out easily. But if the new springs have a lot more variable coils than the Tesla springs it can actually ride softer over a small bump while having the required high spring rate to prevent bottoming out.
IMHO check the description for technical info about them or on their site
Good info - I would have placed your phone on the floor. You're probably getting a lot of load attenuation through the dash and phone mount. Good results though
have you scratched the bumper by hitting the road? Like coming out of a parking lot? or when parking?
How does it affect the range after lowering it does it improve a little bit like they claim by 7%
Please post vibSensor results for the same course with your Model S, and if possible a non-Tesla for comparison. I have a 2013 Volt, but have the Model 3 on preorder. Thank you!
Did the suspension change alter handling, braking, braking nose dive etc.?
Thanks for posting the video. Installed the moderate springs and they are great!
Once the springs settle a little more, it should look even better. Nice mod. I interpreted the data differently though. There is less travel in your suspension since the spring is more compressed, and this makes the ride typically more harsh. The new springs' spring rate might be better mated for the stock shock absorbers, and it just feels better. If your bottom tells you it feels better, that's all that matters!
Was there any abnormal tire wear because of negative camber?
Do you know if unplugged performance has done anything like this comparing their mild and moderate springs?
Great vid, Ben. Wanted to know about how this might affect the factory warranty? Have 2 M3s on order & 1 week before my delivery estimator window opened, I got the email saying it was shifted... only a month though. I’m in Phoenix.
Man. I'm so lost with what to choose. I have a 2022 model 3 Performance and I know it's alot softer compared to a 2018 model. But I want to go lower but NOT affect ride quality. How to these spring a compare to a new interior update model 3 performance. ?
Have you tried to see how easy it bottoms out now? If its lower and softer its much more likely to bottom out easier.
dual rate springs
The car looks great lowered. Did you get curb rash already on the front passenger wheel?
Yes, she's not allowed to drive the car anymore
that looks so much better. i'd throw some spacers also to get rid of the sunken look, but that's just me.
HI Ben,
Consider these spring but concerned about the wear this has on the cambers and risk of scrapping on the bottom. Any insight on this regarding if you had to change any other components (ie. shocks, cambers) since installing? As well, for the everyday drive have you had issues with battery scraping? Would you have considered a different product? Thanks !
Hi ben,did you discuss this with tesla? Any warranty loss?did you gain battery miles?? Which rim in which size is that you ride? -thank you for all your effort!
It would be good to have a "control" version of the test with a Model 3 with original wheels and original suspension.
Yeah, this. The 18 inch wheels and stock tires probably rode a hell of a lot better.
Ben,
As the 20" Sport wheel/tire package is now on Tesla website (3/21/18), i see they also come with 2 x rear upper fore links. What parts are those referring to and how they compare to what you did? Curious as to what kind of upgrade you think were needed for the 20" wheels that you have and if you have had any rubbing issues etc with your wheels. Maybe you can reach out to the people who put them on your car and ask them for their opinions. I want 20" wheels but see this now on teslas site and wonder if they are needed for safety or performance purposes?
How much is the cost? I like it because it is not super low. Very clean looking.
Dude I’m sold! How much was installation?
I'm trying to figure out if you simply got back the height of the rim by changing the springs.
Did adding the new wheels add to the ground clearance of the car or was the rim diameter offset by a shorter tire wall?
Any info on camber specs before and after? Any built in adjustment?
What sunglasses do you wear? Thanks
Hey Ben, Thanks for the video. I was wondering if you had a chance to check Mountain Pass Performance too? and why you decided to go with Unplugged Performance? just trying to decide. Gracias!!!
Awesome...I don't have a Model 3 but this seems to be a must do modification for the car. Looks great and as you have concluded...makes a significant difference in the ride quality of the vehicle. If I do get a Model 3 at some point I will do the same. Really enjoy 'Teslanomics'.
So the 20" wheels from EV wheels direct you already had on the car, and just changed the springs and kept the factory shocks?
Ben, does it also lower the total clearance height at the front bumper? 1.5" lowered stance looks great but I guess it will also lower entire vehicle so it will increase chance of scratching the front lip.
right, down to 6.5" from 8" - the actual lowest point of the car however is just behind the back doors, a little rubber fearing drops down just before the back tires
Wheels and ride height look amazing. I wonder how long your struts will last?
How much should you lower it if you have the performance version. I heard it is already lower than the standard model 3.
Hello, Heard you raised your model 3 later on
I have a model performance live in Michigan pot hole city so on the fence if I should do the lowering or not any advice ?
Hey Ben, car looks great. I assume the warranty is now voided now that you've replaced the springs? Thanks
on the springs maybe, everything else still covered
Hi Ben. This topic touches on something that I've questioned for years and is the core of many discussions I've had with my brother :) ... Basically, if car manufacturers of which I'm sure Tesla is no exception, spend Millions and Millions of Dollars on the research and development of their vehicles in terms of aerodynamics and reliability (MTBF etc), how can the average Joe think that spending a couple of hundred bucks on their car can create an improvement, without compromising some other aspect of the car?
An example might be....someone sticking a big spoiler on the rear thinking that they are improving the aerodynamics. Or someone adding an Induction Kit to improve the Air Intake of the old ICE.
Do you not think that by lowering your new car, you are compromising the Aerodynamics and possibly the reliability of the suspension?
Regardless, Many thanks for the great videos :)
John
The factory springs are single rated, these are dual giving smoother cruising and better handling. Tons of tech went into these springs, details in the description and on the product page. Hope this helps!
Single rate springs have more predictably handling characteristics than dual rate. Lowering the car on a softened initial spring rate will increase the likelihood of scraping the bumper on driveways and speed bumps. Lowering on stock struts is not ideal for strut performance and longevity. The better option is a full coil over set with height adjustment, and struts designed for the springs.
Yes, a car company spends billions on development - but that's for thousands of parts for the car! On a per-part basis, Tesla, like most companies, takes what is available on the market already without re-inventing the wheel. Making a 35k car means they cannot put top-of-the-line EVERYTHING in the car. So there are BETTER things out in the market, be it springs, tires, ... and other parts. It's a function of "how much can the engineering department spend on this one single part VS how will it impact performance VS is it important to the customer VS will the average Joe pay for it or will the above-average Joe get a retrofit after market". A careful balance...!! So yes, absolutely, after-market parts are often better, have more research funding, and may be more reliable without compromising the "balance" of the overall car!
Michael Schauer Tesla - like other companies? Hardly. Tesla is one of the only companies that DOESN'T do this. I'm a large investor in the company and as such I have had the opportunity to learn quite a bit about how they design and build cars. I can assure you that they would never EVER compromise the end goal by just using an off-the-shelf component and accept whatever shortcomings it has. Even when using a 3rd party supplier, they spec the parts exactly how they need and have them manufactured to spec.
Eric Fontaine Hmmm a false qualifier... having invested in the company gives you some kind of special knowledge? And you are so wrong. Though I don’t have or even been in a Tesla, I heard that the steering wheel and it’s surrounding equipment is pretty much a Mercedes product? And did Tesla ask their suppliers to spend billions to re-engineer super round wheels, the worlds smoothest ball-bearings? Is their first generation self driving system not an off the shelf product from mobile eye? are their batteries not an off the shelf product from Panasonic?
does it void warranty? and how much drop ?
I’m looking for smoother ride quality on my model y performance. Would these springs help? And if so is it worth the near $3k upgrade ?
Did the lower Tesla effect autopilot in any (good or bad) way?
Hey Ben, wanted to know if all these customisations are covered under warranty?
There are three versions of the springs available, which ones did you use?
I like the tighter wheel well look with the new springs, but would be concerned if the travel in the suspension is reduced, as others have mentioned. It may ride smoother until the road gets rougher past the point where the suspension tightens up. It would be good to see a comparison of the OEM setup along with the before and after lowering. I'll have to look at one of the earlier videos.
What is the over all affects on range for the car with larger wheels and lower suspension? Less - same - more range?
Haven't done an exhaustive test, likely the biggest factor is the stickiness of the new tires
How does lowering the car improve ride comfort?
Thanks for the Vid. Car looks awesome.
Does this affect Tesla warranty or is it limited to the part that was changed?
Any calibration needed for the cameras?
Lowering wont void the entire warranty. However, if you have issues with shocks, etc. You may not be covered. Since, you went with aftermarket springs.
What about the warranty on the rest of the suspension?
Super cool! One question came to mind when you showed the 20% decrease slide: can you get data on what % of variance in vibration on average you see between different rides? Or did you already account for that by doing multiple rides and using some average data when you presented your findings? Keep up the great work! Loving my Model 3 so far up here in Seattle.
I’m 6’5”, would I be comfortable in the Model 3 or way too small for a tall person?
What did you do with dampers?
How would Tesla react with warranty with these customizations? the same as any other car manufacturer?
so far they've reacted positively
I test drove in late December 2018 so I can't imagine how much stiffer and bumpy the earlier ones would be.
From a scale of 1-10 soft ride to stiff, I would rate the ride as:
2017 Toyota Camry =5 (as a reference point).
2018 Mercedes S450 =10
2017 Cadillac CTS-V =8
2018 Mercedes E450 =8
2018 Lexus LS450 =7
2018 Lexus ES350 =7
My 2014 Toyota Highlander =6
My 2008 Scion xB=4
2018 Jaguar iPace=4
My 2017 Corvette Stingray =3
2017 Porsche 911 Carrera S =3
2019 Alfa Romeo Giulla quadrafoglio=3
2017 Porsche Cayman=1
2018 Tesla Model 3 =2
Nice analysis! It'd be good if you can look at how it's affected body roll during corning, and braking dive.
Check the description, more details and link to product page with even more, and thanks!🤘
A cool fact "Tez" ( Te-zz) in hindi means fast.😝😝
Details in regards to model springs they used and how much? Was it only the springs the replaced?
Check the description
Shouldn't shock absorbers also be part of this equation?
Updates on the roadster 2.0???
where are your wheels coming from?
Any tire rubbing?
Wrap it matte black and here you go! Look good man
Interesting. But here in Colorado ground clearance is precious. The stock 3 is borderline; I wouldn't want to lower it.
Wouldn't you'd be better off just sticking to the aero wheels? Thicker sidewall, smoother ride, and a couple grand extra on your pocket.
Sure but he didn't pay for the wheels or the springs so you're doing your math, not his. In the next video he will tell you why you shouldn't buy the model 3 anyway and give you his referral code for free supercharging when you buy a model S that is a much better car in every way.
You gotta follow the data!
Why can’t I let some air out of the 18” wheels to get the 1.5” lower ride?
You can if you like buying lots of tires and don't mind wheel damage and possible blowouts. Unfortunately though, the wheel gap won't be affected. ;)
Changing tire pressure only affects a fraction of an inch of tire size. Plus, dropping pressure will lower efficiency by increasing the surface area.
Shawn Sonnentag how much does the spring replacement cost? How much will they save in better efficiency? I rather put that money towards dual motor, and upgrade the autopilot. I am not interested in lowering the car, or flashy wheels, or interior.
Nice, I enjoy the FFT method aswell. Would really like to see air suspension in the graph too
What wheels are these? I can’t find these wheels while building a model 3 on the Tesla site.
After market from EV Wheel Direct Teslanomics.co/m3turbines
Teslanomics with Ben Sullins thank you for the reply! What size are the wheels you ordered 20x8? Or 20x10? Or did you do it staggered ?
If I somehow got rich in the next year or so (unlikely), I'd go ahead and put your softest springs on which only lower the car 0.7". That would be a good compromise for me. I like softer rides.
Anyone try installing lowering springs on the Model 3 themselves? I have done a few myself on other types of cars. But never on a double wishbone suspension on the front and mult-link suspension for the rear like what the Model 3 has.
Looks really good lowered, really aggressive and sporty.
I was hoping there would be a lowering option out there for mine when I finally get it. It want it lower for aesthetics mostly.
This is counterintuitive, would expect lowered suspension to have harsher ride. Likely too many variables here for the analysis to be reliable
Check the description for more info as to how they engineered them
Pete James, I said the same thing. Can’t see why without a picture of the Tesla springs. The Performance Unlimited springs are clearly dual rate, but that means nothing without knowing how the original spring as wound. Suspension tuning is one of those things that is really up to personal preference.
I’m also surprised lowering the car without changing the dampers didn’t mess up the ride. The good dampers tend to be less dampening near designed ride height and become more dampening as the car is lower, as if you put 1000 pounds of cargo in it. Most people don’t care because they wanted stiffer suspension, which is why the lowered it in the first place.
I think air suspension with variable rate and variable dampening is what people will want in a $55,000 car.
The reason that most vehicles get harsher when you lower them is because many shops just cut the springs, which has a major effect on spring rate and travel. Conventional vehicle manufacturers spend a lot of time on chassis dynamics, this is one of the major things they do in the beta phase of car development, with the factory built prototypes. First there is a theoretical analysis, which gives them a starting point for the shocks and springs, then they will run the finished vehicle on a seven post shaker to verify the analysis. Once they get fairly close, then they take the fully instrumented vehicles to several different test tracks to confirm and dial in the final calibration. Tesla skipped most of these steps on the model 3, because the first factory built cars actually went directly to customers. This is basically the reason, any aftermarket manufacture, can make springs and shocks that will deliver much better dynamics in the model 3. As with most things, Tesla shorts The typical vehicle development program, so the first production cars are truly half baked.
David Black, the after market spring end looked like you couldn’t cut it to lower it, or it won’t fit in the spring seat properly. I would never do a modifications like that on a brand new car unless I had Elon Musk’s money. Normally driveline angles are set for proper angle. Lowing the car will change those angles, and void the warranty on CV joints.
IMHO I think you missed my point. My point was that Tesla did a very poor job of balancing the chassis dynamics originally, so it is easy for aftermarket supplier to produce springs and shocks that will improve it dramatically. to get a chassis - shocks - springs that dampen the varying frequency of road bumps is a complicated process that Tesla mostly skipped on Model 3. The ride in Ben’s car improved because they found a better balance in the suspension, most likely it was just dumb luck for the producer of the springs. I have read quite a few online complaints about model 3 suspension being rough. It seems like something with their combination of shocks and spring rate is exciting vibration in the chassis because I do not think it is just too stiff of a setup.
How much did the springs cost, not incl labor? Tesla should have gotten this right during production.
$335 - link in description as well as you can win a free set in a raffle they're doing
What program do you use for regression analysis?
Tableau
Thanks for the informative post!
Ben, How does theis modification affect the warranty in your opinion?
To my knowledge no effect, of course if you had an issue with the suspension they wouldn't fix it but everything else should be fine
Ben - if you damage the battery pack under the floor somehow - let's say the battery develops a crack or short circuit or something, Tesla could easily say that the lowered suspension put undue structural stress on the car. Might not be an issue - but it's a risk people take modifying their cars. And full disclosure - I have a lowered Audi and a highly modified CTS-V, so I'm one of those folks who do take some risks in making changes. But someone who really needs the warranty needs to be fully aware that there could be situations a bit worse.
Let's say AutoPilot acts up or fails to execute lane changes - I'm not sure how tied in to the ride height that is, but without knowing the full spectrum of engineering logic, it's hard to say that by lowering the car you have only affected the ride and nothing else.
My CTS-V has special suspension that relies on highly precise position sensors - changing the shocks and springs on the car can significantly alter or even disable things like skid control for example. On my wife's Audi, changing the ride height dramatically affected the emergency braking features. A $600 recalibration was necessary. The Tesla has similar systems for AutoPilot and those, too, could be affected. With my wife's Audi, the car drove just fine - it was only noticeable IF the emergency collision avoidance system activated (which is pretty much never). But knowing this needed to be checked and re-worked could safe our life or at least prevent a costly collision.
I doubt that Ben will have to worry about warranty, but I certainly wouldn't try it as a normal mortal who can't call up @Elon to ask for help.
What rims are these?
Does it affect warranty at all?
Not that I've noticed
This will be on my mod list after tint,ppf, and coating.
What do they charge for installation
Can you over heat the battery?
Awesome this is the route I want to take, 20s and a slight lowering. To get that sexy stance.