Been a problem in the US on dirt oval cars for at least 20 years now. There are ways to police it, some tracks will swap out MSD boxes between racers. No one wants to take a chance on loosing an expensive piece. Changing timing can be done between races on any car with any ignition and is considered tuning not traction control. Tire doping is also not allowed in most auto racing in the US (not sure about drag racing) but most sprint car series here allow adjustable wing sliders.
i used TC back in the 60s using a GM dual point dist and a push button on the steering to switch from one set of points to the other set of points controlling the dwell extender timing.
In my opinion the only clause that would need to be added would be something like "any device that modifies the ability for the vehicle to maintain the level of grip or traction to the driving wheels by means of electrical intervention is strictly prohibited." Another way to look at it is maybe only 1 of those devices you mention are approved for use and therefore are easier to police in a way as scrutineers and stewards know exactly what to look for. You could then say something like "any competitors vehicle with the approved traction control device must be clearly identifiable and labelled as such and shall be free for inspection by race officials at any time prior to, during or following completion of any race event."
I agree 100% anything I’ve ever driven from a semi to a sprint car, I want more control not less. I can see where this would help on asphalt and on dirt when qualifying the throttle is used way too much to steer these cars for computerized traction control.
We race a series in Canada where the rules require standardized wiring using Weatherpack connections. MSD boxes are collected post race then re-assigned at the next race date.
Been a sprint car fan for years and didn't know about this one. Appreciate the video. Would have appreciated it even more without the inserts. Just 2 cents. Appreciate your work and looking forward to your next video.
The only move is to allow it in its own class, and write rules around it. Other benefit would be to freeze rules for the non-TC class to a more affordable level / no electronics allowed.
I agree with being able to adjust in the pits.. and if this is used.. there should be an LED light letting officials it is this or that.. once pushed off.. no changes.. even on reds.. Otherwise you will have cars pushing off to change timing slowing show down. Which this switch is taking the place of..
I’ve been a sprint car fan for thirty years. I once read an interview with Doug Wolfgang where he openly admitted to using Nos in the 80s. Today, a top of the line motor will run for $50-70k. You better believe these guys will take any advantage they can get.
So what was in Donny's file when he tore the tank off and it caught fire? Didn't look like straight methanol to me. Infact nitrous would have been my first guess to what was in that tank.
Been around in the states for years. I retired as a crew chief in 98 and it was here then. Then it could be activated remotely by using a cell phone. The top WoO teams had it...
I have to say, it's a difficult thing to get my head around - I'd have thought that (Especially on the smaller tracks we have here in Australia) that the last thing a driver would want would be the engine derating itself through a corner? Obviously it does work though, maybe the simple solution is to just go to a control MSD box
Sprintcars rely heavily on “wing speed”, meaning the faster they go, the more downforce is gained by the wing pushing down on the car harder. When the track goes slick, the driver is unable to use the throttle as much because there is a lack of grip. With that lack of grip, the car is traveling much slower. A slower sprintcar means less wing speed. Traction control enables the car to never spin the wheels unnecessarily, meaning they’re faster off a corner, gaining more speed on the straights and then making more use of the wing. Hope this helps. Thanks for the comment and support of SprintcarHub! 👍🏼
Brad sweet uses it. He uses the type that runs off hydraulic pressure that pulses the rear brake, it's far more popular in asphalt racing, but will work on a sprint car as well.
I’m designing a BT RF jamming device to counteract and would flatten the timing when they want it ,and spike power in traffic or induce dead pedal slide jobs and there not for sale ! Lol 😂 it sounds a lot like the TPS on my Dodge Cummins 5.9 that for six months I had this bizarre acceleration or hesitation then WOT and finally ending with the dreaded flat pedal at the worst possible time . If your from USA and you have owned a 3 gen you know what I’m talking about imagine trying to run sprint car ?
Tag and seal systems are not perfect either. The same technology used for the seal is possible to be purchased from others. That was always a fear when I went go-kart nationals at Daytona. There were guys there with tractor trailer rigs for a GO-KART RACE! When I watched them seal my engine I thought how easy would it be to just buy kit to seal them myself? I could have a cheater motor to qualify and the legal one already for the Feature. Not saying anyone did that, but I sure didn't feel comfortable that the little seal was going to stop guys and gals from doing the ol' switch-a-roo.
I did little 600cc minisprint racing. Saw a lot of guys using laptops on kawasaki 636 engines. What crap. The only traction control should be suspension and tire tweaks
Hmm, ever wonder why it used to be difficult for drivers to master the bottom on tracks like Knoxville and Williams Grove when they slick off? It took drivers with great throttle control like Lasoski and Kreitz. Now anyone can do it. Traction control needs to be heavily policed with heavy penalties for those that get caught. Knoxville used to have a lifetime ban if you got caught. That was back when in the late 90's/early 2000's when it was first starting to be known. Now you don't hear of any tracks or sanctions even checking for it.
Yeah any car can run the bottom at knoxville they just don't wanna go fast. Haha sorry bro but 1 car ran the bottom. And stuck with it this year and that car won. I think if anyone can run the bottom as you claim then everyone would have been on the bottom at the end of the race
good video..... but it'll ruin the sport.... that's what is so good about it it's the DRIVER with a decent setup and throttle control.... leave it be...
Is one of the three types of traction control used in Sprint Car racing the same type of traction control Jimmy Johnson used to win all those NASCAR Championships?...lol
If they allow traction control over here then the racing will be as boring as F1. If your caught running it then it should be a life ban for either the driver or car owner. Simple as that!
@@SprintCarHub Well...... Gravel's big mouth let it slip, more than once, on his "Me Tour" Self-Promoting Videos. So ........ Gravel, his family, his friends, and anybody who looks like him, should be indefinitely banned from Sprint Car Racing? Is that what you're saying? I'm actually good with that. *_"Would you like that in a pump, or a loafer Mam?"_* I'd love to see Gravel selling shoes. Instead of his over-priced "ME" merchandise. I know for a fact. Gary Wright had traction control@ Little Rock, Arkansas. In *_"The 2001 Short Track Nationals"_*
@@SprintCarHub Yes sir. I think so. *"Crank Trigger Traction Control."* Here you go --> ua-cam.com/video/Y39umPuVn8k/v-deo.html Don't you just love how Mr. personal jet 10-Time WoO Champion never gave back to his fans? No in-car camera. No behind-the-scenes. No anything. Didn't seek publicity. Didn't need it. Didn't want it............ *ABOVE IT!* Now that Schatz can't win dick. 25 years into his career. *OUT OF THE BLUE* We get a first time tour of the shop, hauler, & crew. ua-cam.com/video/xYNkC9cKgGs/v-deo.html
@@raymond3803 Might want to do a little more homework there champ. Yes Gravel mentions Crank Trigger a couple of times in that video but that doesn't mean he is refering to traction control. Crank trigger ignition does not mean traction control.
They have chemicals to soften and make tires stickier often the chemicals claim faster lap times just like traction control claims. It is illegal to do in most sanctions.
Amen. Traction control ruins racing. If sprint car racing fails to police it, the sport suffers and becomes a pointless technological exercise. This is similar to the steroid era in American baseball. It *can* be policed - it's just a question of having the requisite will to protect the sport.
Traction control on dirt with a series racing many different tracks and track conditions is not a full proof weapon. If the track is not dry slick and smooth, theres hardly any benefit. Tire doping and limitless engine and tire budgets are way more effective.
You want to see T.C. at it's finest ? Ducati in Moto-GP . If fuel , butter fly's , timing can't be moved around all at the same time you have nothing !! When you see a sprint car with fly by wire and no mechanical driven spark or fuel pump , you my friend are gone to get your butt kicked big time !!!!! This stuff they are selling isn't worth two rows of painters shit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Donny schatz had it for years and nobody did shit about it and he won and won and won,and now the last 3 years of his driving you notice how he is clearly not the same driver without it????? Woo could not afford to lose him at the transition time of Steve retiring they needed a new top dog a new king so to speak so they let him get 200 wins with it and let it slide but nobody in woo will ever admit the truth about Schatz getting caught with it and more importantly turning cold shoulder to the situation. Schatz is clearly a different driver without it though. I like Schatz and think he is a great guy but he cheated for years. But if you are not cheating then your not trying!!!
Schatz still seemed to get to 300 wins in 2021... Smoke won one this summer because the leader blew the RR tire in the 4th turn headed to the checkers. To finish first, one must first finish.
How do you know for sure you a pit Stewart, you seen it on his car , you race with him . Or you just a bleacher creature?? They do look and pick the cars apart tech wise ! Lol WoW you say dont police this , they seem to in dirt latemodels lil for it .
@@chadalac1977 really dude this was well known and what cause you didn't know it makes it wrong or something?Bobby Jackson long time woo official was given the mob treatment if he went public cause it was best for the sport so the woo said at the time. This is old news
You nailed it. The only traction control should to be your right foot! There needs to be heavy penalties for anyone using it.
There should be no traction control. That is what the driver is for.
Agreed!
Indeed
Been a problem in the US on dirt oval cars for at least 20 years now. There are ways to police it, some tracks will swap out MSD boxes between racers. No one wants to take a chance on loosing an expensive piece. Changing timing can be done between races on any car with any ignition and is considered tuning not traction control. Tire doping is also not allowed in most auto racing in the US (not sure about drag racing) but most sprint car series here allow adjustable wing sliders.
Great thinking points. Agree with you. No traction control. Keep it simple and have great racing.
i used TC back in the 60s using a GM dual point dist and a push button on the steering to switch from one set of points to the other set of points controlling the dwell extender timing.
Love your channel,am still learning the ins and outs of Sprint car racing and find your channel very informative. Thanks for the help...
In my opinion the only clause that would need to be added would be something like "any device that modifies the ability for the vehicle to maintain the level of grip or traction to the driving wheels by means of electrical intervention is strictly prohibited."
Another way to look at it is maybe only 1 of those devices you mention are approved for use and therefore are easier to police in a way as scrutineers and stewards know exactly what to look for. You could then say something like "any competitors vehicle with the approved traction control device must be clearly identifiable and labelled as such and shall be free for inspection by race officials at any time prior to, during or following completion of any race event."
I like your opinion. Sensible 👍🏼
I agree 100% anything I’ve ever driven from a semi to a sprint car, I want more control not less. I can see where this would help on asphalt and on dirt when qualifying the throttle is used way too much to steer these cars for computerized traction control.
Traction control may only help a little in qualifying, but would only become more beneficial throughout the night.
Thanks for the insight Toby. We don't need it in sprintcars, fullstop!
First time I've heard of TC concerning dirt oval what the heck..
Well said mate
Thank you! It’s a subject that needs to be talked about and nothing else is out there. Stoked you enjoyed the video.
We race a series in Canada where the rules require standardized wiring using Weatherpack connections. MSD boxes are collected post race then re-assigned at the next race date.
Been a sprint car fan for years and didn't know about this one. Appreciate the video. Would have appreciated it even more without the inserts. Just 2 cents. Appreciate your work and looking forward to your next video.
The biggest problem in sprint car racing is the width of the rear tires. Cut the width by a third or half and put the drivers back in control.
Well done! I couldn’t agree more! Keep up the good work
The only move is to allow it in its own class, and write rules around it. Other benefit would be to freeze rules for the non-TC class to a more affordable level / no electronics allowed.
Well said.
One correction. Well usually not legal in wing racing. Cockpit adjustable shocks are legal non wing depending on series.
Thanks for that 👍🏼
Side note: SprintcarHub will be focused on 410 winged sprints.
Great job on the video’s. Love your work. Don’t like traction control, I hope they find a way to stop the cheats.
A lot of drivers have tried it and don’t like it.
They’ve talked about it on some old episodes of Open Red.
Yeah well said Toby, couldn’t agree more.
I agree 100% with your take on legality. A traction control rule would be so easy to enforce too. At least for now. Do your job, officials.
I agree with being able to adjust in the pits.. and if this is used.. there should be an LED light letting officials it is this or that.. once pushed off.. no changes.. even on reds..
Otherwise you will have cars pushing off to change timing slowing show down. Which this switch is taking the place of..
I’ve been a sprint car fan for thirty years. I once read an interview with Doug Wolfgang where he openly admitted to using Nos in the 80s. Today, a top of the line motor will run for $50-70k. You better believe these guys will take any advantage they can get.
So what was in Donny's file when he tore the tank off and it caught fire? Didn't look like straight methanol to me. Infact nitrous would have been my first guess to what was in that tank.
Been around in the states for years. I retired as a crew chief in 98 and it was here then. Then it could be activated remotely by using a cell phone. The top WoO teams had it...
Awesome vid. :)
Companies like Davis industries are killing dirt track racing. And it takes the driver out of the equation
Legend, well done mate👍🏼🇦🇺
“Mad Man” just won Port Royal, do ya recon he used T/C 🇺🇸
Watch some of Donny Shatz races at Archerfield
Very good video. Thanks
Thanks for watching, Jim!
I have to say, it's a difficult thing to get my head around - I'd have thought that (Especially on the smaller tracks we have here in Australia) that the last thing a driver would want would be the engine derating itself through a corner? Obviously it does work though, maybe the simple solution is to just go to a control MSD box
Sprintcars rely heavily on “wing speed”, meaning the faster they go, the more downforce is gained by the wing pushing down on the car harder.
When the track goes slick, the driver is unable to use the throttle as much because there is a lack of grip. With that lack of grip, the car is traveling much slower. A slower sprintcar means less wing speed.
Traction control enables the car to never spin the wheels unnecessarily, meaning they’re faster off a corner, gaining more speed on the straights and then making more use of the wing.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the comment and support of SprintcarHub! 👍🏼
Brad sweet uses it. He uses the type that runs off hydraulic pressure that pulses the rear brake, it's far more popular in asphalt racing, but will work on a sprint car as well.
That type of system couldnt be any harder to hide. I have one still new in the box. The were also made by Davis
So im going to say your speculation and claim about an outlaw regular would be very very very hard to confirm.
Reutzel's secrets are getting out.
I’m designing a BT RF jamming device to counteract and would flatten the timing when they want it ,and spike power in traffic or induce dead pedal slide jobs and there not for sale !
Lol 😂 it sounds a lot like the TPS on my Dodge Cummins 5.9 that for six months I had this bizarre acceleration or hesitation then WOT and finally ending with the dreaded flat pedal at the worst possible time . If your from USA and you have owned a 3 gen you know what I’m talking about imagine trying to run sprint car ?
Agree👏👏👏👏👏
Tag and seal systems are not perfect either. The same technology used for the seal is possible to be purchased from others. That was always a fear when I went go-kart nationals at Daytona. There were guys there with tractor trailer rigs for a GO-KART RACE! When I watched them seal my engine I thought how easy would it be to just buy kit to seal them myself? I could have a cheater motor to qualify and the legal one already for the Feature. Not saying anyone did that, but I sure didn't feel comfortable that the little seal was going to stop guys and gals from doing the ol' switch-a-roo.
I did little 600cc minisprint racing. Saw a lot of guys using laptops on kawasaki 636 engines. What crap.
The only traction control should be suspension and tire tweaks
Hmm, ever wonder why it used to be difficult for drivers to master the bottom on tracks like Knoxville and Williams Grove when they slick off? It took drivers with great throttle control like Lasoski and Kreitz. Now anyone can do it. Traction control needs to be heavily policed with heavy penalties for those that get caught. Knoxville used to have a lifetime ban if you got caught. That was back when in the late 90's/early 2000's when it was first starting to be known. Now you don't hear of any tracks or sanctions even checking for it.
Yeah any car can run the bottom at knoxville they just don't wanna go fast. Haha sorry bro but 1 car ran the bottom. And stuck with it this year and that car won. I think if anyone can run the bottom as you claim then everyone would have been on the bottom at the end of the race
Love the content but hate the insets
good video..... but it'll ruin the sport.... that's what is so good about it it's the DRIVER with a decent setup and throttle control.... leave it be...
Where did you get your midget model from on the top right?
Also love the videos keep it up
Is one of the three types of traction control used in Sprint Car racing the same type of traction control Jimmy Johnson used to win all those NASCAR Championships?...lol
If they allow traction control over here then the racing will be as boring as F1. If your caught running it then it should be a life ban for either the driver or car owner. Simple as that!
I certainly wouldn't mind seeing bans for whoever is caught!
@@SprintCarHub Well...... Gravel's big mouth let it slip, more than once, on his "Me Tour" Self-Promoting Videos.
So ........ Gravel, his family, his friends, and anybody who looks like him, should be indefinitely banned from Sprint Car Racing? Is that what you're saying?
I'm actually good with that. *_"Would you like that in a pump, or a loafer Mam?"_* I'd love to see Gravel selling shoes. Instead of his over-priced "ME" merchandise.
I know for a fact. Gary Wright had traction control@ Little Rock, Arkansas. In *_"The 2001 Short Track Nationals"_*
@@raymond3803 Gravel said he runs traction control in his videos?
@@SprintCarHub Yes sir. I think so. *"Crank Trigger Traction Control."* Here you go --> ua-cam.com/video/Y39umPuVn8k/v-deo.html
Don't you just love how Mr. personal jet 10-Time WoO Champion never gave back to his fans? No in-car camera. No behind-the-scenes. No anything.
Didn't seek publicity. Didn't need it. Didn't want it............ *ABOVE IT!*
Now that Schatz can't win dick. 25 years into his career. *OUT OF THE BLUE* We get a first time tour of the shop, hauler, & crew. ua-cam.com/video/xYNkC9cKgGs/v-deo.html
@@raymond3803 Might want to do a little more homework there champ. Yes Gravel mentions Crank Trigger a couple of times in that video but that doesn't mean he is refering to traction control. Crank trigger ignition does not mean traction control.
Joey Montgomery uses it
I got $$$ for info on what type device can be used to “zap” or detect tc in an msd box?? Help weed out this bs please…
Kyle Lar
This is not new, it has been going on for at least 20 years.
What is tyre doping???? - referred to late in your video
Tyre softeners I'm guessing..?
They have chemicals to soften and make tires stickier often the chemicals claim faster lap times just like traction control claims. It is illegal to do in most sanctions.
Soak the tires in certain chemicals
Depends on series, chemicals or needling the tires( small holes) to allow tire to gain heat.
A black magic you will find performed in the secrecy of their ritual race shop. Many many brain cells have been killed in these ceremonies.
How much for the 1/64 saldana on the shelf?
Definitely not for sale 😂 Thanks for asking though! Hope you enjoy the content.
-Toby
Lol been looking for that one for awhile and I don’t blame you!
How big of a diecast collection do you have?
Amen. Traction control ruins racing. If sprint car racing fails to police it, the sport suffers and becomes a pointless technological exercise. This is similar to the steroid era in American baseball. It *can* be policed - it's just a question of having the requisite will to protect the sport.
The steroid Era? That's a poor example. The steroid Era was (still is) probably the most exciting Era in baseball history.
Traction control on dirt with a series racing many different tracks and track conditions is not a full proof weapon. If the track is not dry slick and smooth, theres hardly any benefit. Tire doping and limitless engine and tire budgets are way more effective.
It's the same as tc on dirt bikes an road bikes..
Boring
Don't fix what is not broken
Or......everyone could just drive the car!!
You want to see T.C. at it's finest ? Ducati in Moto-GP . If fuel , butter fly's , timing can't be moved around all at the same time you have nothing !! When you see a sprint car with fly by wire and no mechanical driven spark or fuel pump , you my friend are gone to get your butt kicked big time !!!!! This stuff they are selling isn't worth two rows of painters shit !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Traction control on a sprint car will make boring racing and the day it's alowed is the the day I stop following and supporting sprint cars
I hope they are never legalised
Me too!
Donny schatz had it for years and nobody did shit about it and he won and won and won,and now the last 3 years of his driving you notice how he is clearly not the same driver without it????? Woo could not afford to lose him at the transition time of Steve retiring they needed a new top dog a new king so to speak so they let him get 200 wins with it and let it slide but nobody in woo will ever admit the truth about Schatz getting caught with it and more importantly turning cold shoulder to the situation. Schatz is clearly a different driver without it though. I like Schatz and think he is a great guy but he cheated for years. But if you are not cheating then your not trying!!!
Schatz still seemed to get to 300 wins in 2021... Smoke won one this summer because the leader blew the RR tire in the 4th turn headed to the checkers. To finish first, one must first finish.
How do you know for sure you a pit Stewart, you seen it on his car , you race with him . Or you just a bleacher creature?? They do look and pick the cars apart tech wise ! Lol WoW you say dont police this , they seem to in dirt latemodels lil for it .
@@chadalac1977 really dude this was well known and what cause you didn't know it makes it wrong or something?Bobby Jackson long time woo official was given the mob treatment if he went public cause it was best for the sport so the woo said at the time. This is old news