I’m sure you’ll get to it further on in the video, but one of the most haunting things I’ve read in the entirety of 40k is when the Carcharadon’s join the siege of the Badab system and there’s a meeting amongst the chapter masters. The Red Scorpions chapter master (and all around decent dude that wanted to broker peace) said that when Tyberos removed his helmet his face had been reduced to a mixture of mangled scare tissue and exposed bone. This isn’t an exact retelling of the quote, but it gets the point across. “When he spoke, he barely raised his voice above a whisper, but each time his mangled and scarred face opened every word uttered was filled with an overwhelming threat of violence as though a dam were about to break. In this moment, I knew no peace was coming to Badab”
When you consider the fact that the loyalists in this war had the likes of Asterion Moloc and Tyberos the Red Wake, leading their respective chapters into battle, against likes of the Lamenters and Mantis Warriors, on the secessionists side of the conflict, it speaks volumes of how blurred the lines were, when it comes to "good guys" vs "bad guys". All in all, if you read "Outer Dark", Tyberos actually comes across as a very reasonable, calm and collected chap for the most part. Enough actually, to make even a chapter master of a renegade chapter shit his pants and run away without ever having to raise his voice, or meeting the fella face to face - only offering him an "honorable duel". He only gets a bit upset when Tyranid biopods attack his ship and start sending waves of Warriors, Tervigons, and other bioforms The way he handles that all on his own, by the way, is really something else, even for 40k standards...
5:11 Crazy headcanon here: I think "Tyberos" can also be interpreted as an approximation of "Tiburon" which is "Shark" in Spanish and has many similar words in other Romance Languages.
@@GrimDarkHalfOffhell yeah, man! You and Baldermort, that's about it. If you ever run out of raw materials I'd love to hear your take on the Howling Griffons, or Daemon Prince Periclitor the Forsworn.
I hadn't considered the idea of Tyberros being a former thunder warrior until now. In hind sight though I do agree that it lines up pretty well as an explanation for his immense stature. Another high quality 40k video. Thank you and well done brother!
I can't remember where I read or heard this, so take it with a grain of salt as this could be fanon I'm misunderstanding as canon, but I do remember seeing it said somewhere that the transition between Thunder Warrior and Astartes was a lot less of one existed, then the other, but more these are simply two points on the timeline of a continuously evolving weapon system, a gradual transition as technique's were refined, research was done, and more advanced materials became available. A Thunder Warrior made towards the end of the Unification Wars would have been very similar to an early Astartes. I think the only really hard delineation at that point, from a purely physical prospective, would be Thunder Warriors (at least their enhancements) were created using whatever the Emperor could come up with, an Astarte's enhancements were made using the geneseed's of their respective Primarchs, that and maybe the design philosophy, Astartes were clearly designed more for mass production and longevity, but again that's probably something that emerged as time went on and the Emperor started preparing for the scale and necessities of interstellar warfare. We also know during the Great Crusade there were people who were too old for Astartes Ascension but due to their connection to a Primarch they were allowed to join the legion and given enhancements to make them something close to an Astartes (Lorgar's adopted father for example). Not to mention the fact that, in modern day of the setting a Firstborn Astartes can become a Primaris through the process of "Crossing the Rubicon". So the idea of a Thunder Warrior becoming an Astartes or at least something similar enough they could produce/support progenoid glands (aka be used to make geneseed to make more Astartes), seems entirely reasonable. Might also explain how exactly the Minotaurs happened.
Bro, loved it! If I had money I’d give it to you. I am 37 and been playing 40k since I was 13. Sharks, Raven Guard, and BLK Templars have always been my favorite mainstream chapters, I have never seen a video this detailed, going to check out your RG vid next! You have a new subscriber sir!
You know, I never realized it before, but it's kind of weird how two chapters with a shared lineage and yet diametrically opposing doctrines-the Raptors and the Carcharadons-would end up fighting in the same war. You know, I never realized it before, but it's kind of weird how two chapters with a shared lineage and yet diametrically opposing doctrines-the Raptors and the Carcharadons-would end up fighting in the same war. I like to think Tyberos realized his brutal nature goes beyond the Sable Brand, and even with Corax’s doctrine he and the other Deliverers were still these unflinching killing machines that tore and ripped through the battlefield-which worked out, they were Terminators, Rip & Tear might as well have been their meditation cant-but still aspired to the noble ideals Corax brought to the legion. This would prophetically come back around in Istvaan, when the Raven Guard were devastated, and the Loyalist Night Lord holdouts saw the Deliverers, or maybe just Tyberos himself, cutting through traitor forces, they collectively decided to follow the guys in the big black armor (and stay away from their claws). When Corax managed to rally his remaining sons, and sees the Deliverers with the Loyalist Night Lords and understandably _loses his shit_ it’s Tyberos that literally looked the Primarch in the face and reminds Corax of his principles, and Corax begrudgingly stand down and tells Tyberos that the Night Lord cadre are his problem to worry about. It’s a nice little character arc. Hmm. I _have_ been looking for a good assault-oriented chapter to pair my Raptors force with on the table, ‘specially because my friends are building up _their_ armies.
There is little in common between the Raptors and the Carcharodons, apart from the fact that both chapters make extensive use of Scouts for reconnaissance, in the way how the two forces operate, but one thing they most certainly have in common is that they both faced complete extinction at some point in their respective histories.
@@Minnesota_Fatts I'm well aware of that mate. At least on Raptor's lineage I'm, that is. It's not a 100% certainty when it comes to Sharks, but after reading every novel and short story related to them, I'm inclined to believe that they are at least partially related to the terran-borne astartes of the XIXth Legion.
Would love a vid on how Chimaeric Gene Seed Chapters come about - when a chapter has marines of different lineages its inevitable you're going to have mix and match geneseed organs coming from whatever is left of the marines who have been blown up, blasted with lascannons etc
Minotaurs are rumored to either be pure Iron Warrior or Iron Warrior/Imperial Fists. Now that GW is changing some of the Chapter Lore...as heretical as it sounds...I wouldn't be opposed if they changed the Exorcist from Imperial Fists Successors to descendants of loyalist World Bearers
My favourite second founding chapter, came about by accident of my own design. Owning Space Crusade as a kid and the eventual breaking of attached weapons and power packs meaning I had to mix and match the parts from all the Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Imperial Fists; thus the *Ultra-Bloody Fists* came in to being! :D
Very good indeed. Not just a summery or recitation, it was theory and speculation mixed with reason and logical roads of thought leaving us all to wonder and think on it ourselves instead of beating a drum of "I'm right because my head canon says so!" Lot of interesting ideas about are sharped toothed friends here. Until next time everyone!
Yeah, that pretty much summarizes and adds towards my own ideas of what those sharks are made from. A solid core of old Raven Guard and a spice of Night Lords that were still loyal to the legion's ideals BEFORE papa Kurze gone bonkers. Well, MORE bonkers. And I wish to believe Sevatar was among them. But the idea of Tyberos being a space marinated (ha-ha) thunder warrior was new to me, and I like it. Thank you for the video.
There seems to be a missed opportunity to mix them with the Wulfen space Marines to get a chapter full of Weresharks. That would also be a cool way to be stealthy, hide them in the water so when they think "oh we got rid of the bases and Soldiers on land we can move in on the planet now-" boom! Space Weresharks coming out of the water.
Fantastic video! I had a similar theory about Tyberos linking him to Haar and possibly others. I love the support you provide here especially for the fusion of cultures that over 6k+ years became the “Māori-ish” amalgamation we see in the 41st. You’ve got a new subscriber for sure! Definitely gonna share this with a lot of buddies. Thanks 🙏🏿
That was a great video! Ive seen a few carcharodon lore videos, but none of them talk about their culture and why they act the way they do as well as you explained it. I'd love to see more 40k videos from you, this one and the raven guard one were really really good! I like your unique perspective on their philosiphy and ideals. I'd love to see a video on the minotaurs chapter, they have an equally mysterious chapter master and I'd love to hear your thoughts!
FINALLY! Someone who actually covers all of the parts of the Carcharodons' lore in one video whilst inserting their own thoughts. Thanks so much, Void Brother
All of my head cannon...organized and explained in an effective and informative manner. I once got flamed and heavily down voted for commenting on a forum for suggesting that Tyberos was something other than Astartes, an upgraded Thunder Warrior. I've always imagined that chimeric geneseed could be made by replacing the secondary Progenoid Gland in the neck with a foreign Progenoid Gland and let it "synchronize" with the Primary Progenoid Glan in the abdomen for 5-10 years. Now I'm inspired to kitbash a squad of Astartes from Horus Heresy kits and paint them up in orange Tiger Shark Camo for Kill Team play
I had no idea this chapter existed. Thank you for this awesome video, a fleet of space marine loyalist pirates is the kind of crazy I like to see in 40K.
What about all the hints at World Eaters Geneseed being in the mix. They use the Ursus Claw in void combat, used exclusively in the past by the World Eaters. In the short story - The Reaping Time, a captain named Akia (who wields a two-handed chainaxe) halfway joked that they should just slaughter the people they were supposed to meet with.... The Chief-Librarian thinks to himself that Akia's genetic heritage was blatantly obvious.. There are other examples too. it's 3-way Chimeric Geneseed IMO I also think Tyberos and Asterion Moloc are former thunder warriors. AWESOME VID 👍
I do think world eater is in play here for the reference to Akia but also bail sharr. In his duel with the captured world eater in the ashen claws fighting puts there are two instances where the world eater geneseed is hinted at. That said, your point about the ursus claws is incorrect. They were not solely used by world eaters. Sons of horus have been shown to use them for sure. I also recall there being at least one instance where dark angels used them as well (lord of the first novel I believe). This brings up a larger point, that typical tactics and wargear usage are just that...typical. Not exclusive. All legions blueprints off of the original marines from Terra, which would be Dark Angels, the further refined their focus. Even then, the legions were not locked to that method and could and would adapt as the situation demanded. We see this with almost all the legions through various books with the possible exception to world eaters (and I'm not even certain with them early on).
I believe the quote "fear is a weapon that sharpens through its use" is from Malcharion the War Sage, former captain of the 10th company and a very jolly dreadnaught.
They've gradually become my #1 most favorite chapter over the years of reading every novel, every short story or even a mention of participation in any conflict. There are some chapters who are particularly pious and stubborn, bellicose and ruthless even for Astartes standards, stern and efficient, practical and pragmatic, bloodthirsty and savage, proud and stoic, and then there are those who make the Drukhari and the Night Lords shit their pants without uttering a word, whose chapter master can singlehandedly stop a Tyranid boarding action, or make a chapter master of a ten thousand years-old renegade chapter, literally piss himself and runaway from a position of strength, by calmly and quietly offering him an honorable duel to settle their beef. This by far the most interesting video about the Carcharodons I've seen, and it's very likely that I've seen them all. Your analysis is spot on and the theories seem very plausible. I can't thank you enough for sharing this, mate. Respect!
first time seeing one of your videos and after looking at your channel you have a new sucscriber🙂I love 40k lore and I've recently wanted to learn more about Conan.
Great video! Only thing I'm confused on is the line about the mantis warriors using civilians as shields. I thought it was their care for their own civilians that the Sharks used against them?
Agreed I've always thought that the Mantis Warriors hit and run tactics were designed to pull the fighting from populated areas to lessen civilian losses and collateral damage. The Carcharodons exploited this to draw them into battle to be annihilated. I believe some of the other chapters either were recalled for being to "soft" or left in protest of the Carcharodons tactics. This would add more credence for the Carcharodons being descended from The Delivers and Arkhas Fal, they use to use Imperial Guard regiments as bait and waited them to be destroyed before deploying to finish off weakened foes
Noted I was probably wrong on this one, thanks for the help. I would pin your comment if I didn't already pin the guy who helped with the OP, good comment! Thank you for contributing!
thank you for this in-depth look at the space sharks, i always thought they were cool but now i feel more like i know what their deal is (and their deal makes them EVEN COOLER) 🦈🦈🦈
Do you mean something from the thumbnail or the video? The game footage is me playing a 40K total conversion of Grim Dawn (it’s like Diablo but better)
@GrimDarkHalfOff sorry for getting back so late. I'm referring to 20:15 Space Marine behind the white one on the right hand side. The one firing the plasma gun in a still image I just recognized it and thought 'oh cool' Also love your stuff man :) your workout tips are very helpful!
@@dominicvucic8654 darn, then what legion should i start with to have him? or what rules of space marines should i use for him? could i use a combat patrol of any space marines and use rules of any of the other space marines?
@@GrimDarkHalfOff interesting i myself tend to default to the ultramarines, blood angels and imperial fists. primarily because of the old board games space crusade and space hulk.
The only problem is the drop site massicer. Which is one if the reasons that raven guard have so few successors as it is. Like the only reason the ultramarine dominance in succesors is cause they had a shit tone if marines even after calth
So I started 40K almost exactly a year ago and fell for the Carcharodons immediately. This is now my official head canon for them UNTIL the Ultima Founding, when in my mind Cawl would have seen the Sharks as a perfect experiment for his wildest traitor and lost primarch geneseed dreams. So he bribed Tyberos with new recruits and equipment, brought them up to full chapter strength *and then some*… but also stirred in Alpha Legion and World Eaters stock in while also increasing the Raven Guard/Night Lord numbers as well-in addition to stirring in the 2nd and 11th as well until the sharks 🦈 are Truly something unique.
You know with the idea of that the thunder warriors may of at least in parts been integrated into the Raven guard it begs the question of if that is the case; because this is a theory here; which other legions probably were influenced by that. Honestly with how the blood angels were back when they were the revenant legion I would put my money on them having elements of this as well (along with the fact that it seems that sanguinis's Gene seed is strong enough that you can practically put underhive mutants through the process practically and they'll come out as perfect blood angels)
Would love for these guys to link up with The Lion, them and the Dark Angels have a similar "edge of the galaxy, fight the REALLY nasty stuff, mind your own business" vibe. Well, that was originally the DA vibe, hopefully will be again soon. They could have a story about Tyberos dueling Lion and getting quickly put down, impressing him and the Sharks. And Lion can tell they're loyal just by instinct, regardless of mutation, as he kept the Blood Angel and Space Wolves mutations a secret.
Big fan of the idea that Sevetar was the original founder of the sharks, and their being cast into the void was their penance for betraying the emperor.
So, I deleted my original comment. You did mention the possibility of corvus being the forgotten one, I missed it the first watch through because it was brief. For me, what makes me think it has to be corvus is the line that the forgotten one was sired by the Emperor, and you draw the comparison to Christianity with the Emperor being the father, forgotten one being the son, and void being the holy ghost. I feel like a primarch is the only good fit. Additionally, it mentioned the forgotten one could recall them back to terra? Corvus sent them out to the outer dark it makes sense to me he should be the one that could call them back. (Ignoring whatever high lord functionary called them for the re founding but I don't think that was at terra?)
I'm deeply pissed at how quickly McFarlane Toys gave up on their Warhammer 40K line of figures, but they bailed before getting to my favorite space marine factions, the Space Wolves and Charcaradons.
@@ianbush4382 my comment was left a year ago. While you're certainly correct to observe that Joy Toy has become the leader amongst fans, McF didn't get the rights to Dark Tide and Space Marine 2 if they weren't moving merch. And in this last year, we've seen more Warhammer releases. My comment turned out to be wrong due to time, yours is silly even as you made it.
I actual want to posit a bit of an out there theory, that the Space Sharks are scions of the Space Wolfs. My reasoning comes from a similar flaw that they share where as the Marines get older: their skin begins to grey, their pupils change and more importantly, they become more reclusive. Now I do not think they are pure space wolf successors, but I do think they where mixed in there.
My favorite chapter . Every thing about them is very cool. The are simple but cool. Brutal cruel but loyal my favorite things for characteristics of a chapter. No purpose only just kill enemy's of amperor and gave shit about honor only risen the are Brutal because the are like rape and tearing there enemy's with chainsaw. I like the are cold as weapons the are cared. The are known how how using the blood lost
I really want Tyberos to be a Thunder Warrior, but I have to honor the lore. Here's something from Red Tithe “With the exception of the slumbering Greats in their white suits of Dreadnought armour, Te Kahurangi was by far the oldest member of the Chapter. Sharr had heard it said that he was only three generations removed from the Wandering Ancestors, the first to have gone into the void, alone, at the behest of the Forgotten One.“ Don't miss the devil in the details here. Sharr hears a rumor about the three generations, but before that part, the book doesn't speak from the viewpoint of the Company Master, it just lays down a lore fact, namely that Te is by far the oldest member of the chapter. The use of absolute language, the “by far“, stresses the point even more. So Tyberos can simply not have lived more than Te. For that theory to work you'd would have to presume that the Carcharodons are not a single chapter but they rather follow the Legion rule of multiple Legion Chapters. That would be cool, and reminds you of the Red Corsairs who are Legion-size SM pirates, but unfortunately, to my knowledge there is no backing evidence for that, making it a stretch to propose it, or straight up wrong to just assume it. Please correct me if you believe I'm wrong, but that passage effectively speaks volumes on the hierarchy of the Carcharodons and should never be forgotten (no pun intended).
So who is Tyberos? Instinct says he is made from the Progenoids of Endryd Haar. Who is Te? No idea, would love to have him being Sevatar, having unlocked his psychic potential.
You've inspired me to create my own homebrew based on on the Ravenguard. You, dear sir, are now the inspiration and the reason why the Space Pigeons now exist. Their chilling warcry (Cooooo) strikes fear into traitors who have learned to expect a sudden high-velocity attack that leaves them without what they previously had and has now been Space Snatched. The veterans are known as the Goodfeathers.
9:55 - Lone wolf Batman Syndrome; should be re-named to DarkClaw syndrome! DarkClaw, being the (official) Wolverine/Batman amalgam character; Fits well. Smart, powerful, well equipped and F'in hard to kill; and they both have adamantium or other durable materials embedded, whilst also wearing armour on top!! >XD 10:31 - So you're saying it wasn't *Alien* to those of Nostromo!?! >XD My favourite second founding chapter, came about by accident of my own design. Owning Space Crusade as a kid and the eventual breaking of attached weapons and power packs meaning I had to mix and match the parts from all the Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Imperial Fists; thus the *Ultra-Bloody Fists* came in to being! :D Who did the Mantis Warriors think they were fighting Salamanders; the only chapter that tactic would certainly work against; otherwise what's a human meat shield to a bolt round or chainsword; might stop two bolts at best and then you're open for damage! :D When the Mantis warrior chaplains give sermons does that make all the marines "Praying Mantis"!! How did the Mantis Warrior lose his head? He got laid! Haaa, Damn I'm funny! 44:00 - I loved the story of the Carcharadon torture of a Dark Elf; sensory deprivation chamber sounds idyllic... unless you're a Drukhari! New 40K channel; awesome content; subbed!!
Fog in the streets, a church clock beats Midnight, darkness all around You better beware, you better take care Be prepared for the shock The time has come and he's the one Who's breathing down your neck Coming from behind, now it's your time A loser will die Fast as a shark, he'll cut out of the dark He's a killer, he'll rip out your heart On a one way, track and you're not coming back 'Cause the killer's on the attack Surprise attack, coming from the back An expert of the deadly knack Just take care, just beware Be prepared for the fight Fast as a shark, he'll cut out of the dark He's a killer, he'll rip out your heart On a one way, track and you're not coming back 'Cause the killer's on the attack - Accept "Fast as a Shark"
I still have no idea where “Dante is the oldest space marine” comes from. I even here other UA-camrs say that. It makes no sense under any circumstances and seems like an extra restriction on creativity just for the sake of a restriction. It’s just weird.
Oh Emperor... these psykos. I'm not even sure if they follow the "you can't have more than a 1000 Marines" rule (which makes the Administratum and Inquisition siccing them and the Minotaurs on the Maelstrom Warders even more rich). Still they're a pretty good representation of 40k: irredeemable monsters in any other setting until you realize that they're the savage pitbull keeping the monsters at bay. Kinda curious who the Inquisition finds more insane, the Carcaradons Astra or the Flesh Tearers
@@GrimDarkHalfOff I listened to the entire video. The Carcharodons were exiled before the HH by years. They were not recalled by Corax using the HH. Their chapter predates the 2nd Founding and any NL having a coming to The Emperor moment. While there are some similarities between the Carcharodons and NL, their tactics are quite distinct. These tactics existed in the Great Crusade era XIXth, there is no need for any Nostroman admixture to explain their existence.
I now know everything about these shark boys, I am cursed with this knowledge
Hey reader! This is the guy who did the vocals for the one piece joke! He’s really cool and you should subscribe to him!
@@GrimDarkHalfOff ❤️😉
The blessing of another worthy lore boi is the truest gift bestowed upon us by *He who sits upon The Golden Throne.*
I’m sure you’ll get to it further on in the video, but one of the most haunting things I’ve read in the entirety of 40k is when the Carcharadon’s join the siege of the Badab system and there’s a meeting amongst the chapter masters.
The Red Scorpions chapter master (and all around decent dude that wanted to broker peace) said that when Tyberos removed his helmet his face had been reduced to a mixture of mangled scare tissue and exposed bone. This isn’t an exact retelling of the quote, but it gets the point across.
“When he spoke, he barely raised his voice above a whisper, but each time his mangled and scarred face opened every word uttered was filled with an overwhelming threat of violence as though a dam were about to break.
In this moment, I knew no peace was coming to Badab”
When you consider the fact that the loyalists in this war had the likes of Asterion Moloc and Tyberos the Red Wake, leading their respective chapters into battle,
against likes of the Lamenters and Mantis Warriors, on the secessionists side of the conflict, it speaks volumes of how blurred the lines were, when it comes to "good guys" vs "bad guys".
All in all, if you read "Outer Dark", Tyberos actually comes across as a very reasonable, calm and collected chap for the most part.
Enough actually, to make even a chapter master of a renegade chapter shit his pants and run away without ever having to raise his voice, or meeting the fella face to face - only offering him an "honorable duel".
He only gets a bit upset when Tyranid biopods attack his ship and start sending waves of Warriors, Tervigons, and other bioforms
The way he handles that all on his own, by the way, is really something else, even for 40k standards...
5:11 Crazy headcanon here: I think "Tyberos" can also be interpreted as an approximation of "Tiburon" which is "Shark" in Spanish and has many similar words in other Romance Languages.
Thats what i said
Yeah I thought that was obvious. It is not even subtle. It is the same as corvus corvax . It literally just means common raven
A stealthy terminator the size of a primarch? Count me in brother!
Hydra Dominatus
Time to sneak watch during class
Doesn't claim more Master status but low-key drops the most comprehensive and best video on the space sharks I've ever seen.
Thank you brother
There are so many 40k lore channels, but relatively few lore CRAFTING channels. I'm psyched for this.
Thank you, my brain won’t let me do just lore, so I appreciate that people like it
@@GrimDarkHalfOffhell yeah, man! You and Baldermort, that's about it. If you ever run out of raw materials I'd love to hear your take on the Howling Griffons, or Daemon Prince Periclitor the Forsworn.
So these are Privateers... Pirates loyal to the crown and attacking enemies of the Crown under the authority of a 'Letter of Mark'.
Thanks for the info!
Along with the rouge traders and probably some other space marine chapters and imperial navy elements.
Marque
Significantly worse seeing as they are one of the legions with mixed geneseed. Raven guard and Nightlords. So stealth and unfathomable brutality
i always gravitated towards the sharks over the raven guard, but your previous video on them made me a fan.
I've never heard a more accurate way to describe the Badab war 😂
Thank you, thank you - Don’t forget to tip your waitresses
This is my favorite space marine chapter from warhammer 40K great video on them.
I hadn't considered the idea of Tyberros being a former thunder warrior until now. In hind sight though I do agree that it lines up pretty well as an explanation for his immense stature.
Another high quality 40k video. Thank you and well done brother!
You are the man, keep up the great work.
I can't remember where I read or heard this, so take it with a grain of salt as this could be fanon I'm misunderstanding as canon, but I do remember seeing it said somewhere that the transition between Thunder Warrior and Astartes was a lot less of one existed, then the other, but more these are simply two points on the timeline of a continuously evolving weapon system, a gradual transition as technique's were refined, research was done, and more advanced materials became available. A Thunder Warrior made towards the end of the Unification Wars would have been very similar to an early Astartes. I think the only really hard delineation at that point, from a purely physical prospective, would be Thunder Warriors (at least their enhancements) were created using whatever the Emperor could come up with, an Astarte's enhancements were made using the geneseed's of their respective Primarchs, that and maybe the design philosophy, Astartes were clearly designed more for mass production and longevity, but again that's probably something that emerged as time went on and the Emperor started preparing for the scale and necessities of interstellar warfare. We also know during the Great Crusade there were people who were too old for Astartes Ascension but due to their connection to a Primarch they were allowed to join the legion and given enhancements to make them something close to an Astartes (Lorgar's adopted father for example). Not to mention the fact that, in modern day of the setting a Firstborn Astartes can become a Primaris through the process of "Crossing the Rubicon". So the idea of a Thunder Warrior becoming an Astartes or at least something similar enough they could produce/support progenoid glands (aka be used to make geneseed to make more Astartes), seems entirely reasonable. Might also explain how exactly the Minotaurs happened.
Thank you brother for the wonderful analysis
Bro, loved it! If I had money I’d give it to you. I am 37 and been playing 40k since I was 13. Sharks, Raven Guard, and BLK Templars have always been my favorite mainstream chapters, I have never seen a video this detailed, going to check out your RG vid next! You have a new subscriber sir!
Much appreciated, welcome aboard and happy to have you!
Huh! First time anyone I'd heard able to back up a Spess Shörk theory with something substantial. Nicely done!
AVE DOMINUS..........SHARK.
I'm gonna be watching this at work!
Same
Arrived right at a time where things need to get sorted out fast, really enjoy this new series and rewatch the RG video often, great stuff
Do you think they blast the Jaws theme when they're asleep?
It plays in the background on a black metal organ as they pray
So much detail! Plenty of speculation as you say. Either way excellent video!
You know, I never realized it before, but it's kind of weird how two chapters with a shared lineage and yet diametrically opposing doctrines-the Raptors and the Carcharadons-would end up fighting in the same war. You know, I never realized it before, but it's kind of weird how two chapters with a shared lineage and yet diametrically opposing doctrines-the Raptors and the Carcharadons-would end up fighting in the same war.
I like to think Tyberos realized his brutal nature goes beyond the Sable Brand, and even with Corax’s doctrine he and the other Deliverers were still these unflinching killing machines that tore and ripped through the battlefield-which worked out, they were Terminators, Rip & Tear might as well have been their meditation cant-but still aspired to the noble ideals Corax brought to the legion. This would prophetically come back around in Istvaan, when the Raven Guard were devastated, and the Loyalist Night Lord holdouts saw the Deliverers, or maybe just Tyberos himself, cutting through traitor forces, they collectively decided to follow the guys in the big black armor (and stay away from their claws). When Corax managed to rally his remaining sons, and sees the Deliverers with the Loyalist Night Lords and understandably _loses his shit_ it’s Tyberos that literally looked the Primarch in the face and reminds Corax of his principles, and Corax begrudgingly stand down and tells Tyberos that the Night Lord cadre are his problem to worry about. It’s a nice little character arc.
Hmm. I _have_ been looking for a good assault-oriented chapter to pair my Raptors force with on the table, ‘specially because my friends are building up _their_ armies.
There is little in common between the Raptors and the Carcharodons, apart from the fact that both chapters make extensive use of Scouts for reconnaissance, in the way how the two forces operate, but one thing they most certainly have in common is that they both faced complete extinction at some point in their respective histories.
@@luckylarry71Mate, the Raptors are a Raven Guard successor chapter, too.
@@Minnesota_Fatts I'm well aware of that mate. At least on Raptor's lineage I'm, that is. It's not a 100% certainty when it comes to Sharks, but after reading every novel and short story related to them, I'm inclined to believe that they are at least partially related to the terran-borne astartes of the XIXth Legion.
Would love a vid on how Chimaeric Gene Seed Chapters come about - when a chapter has marines of different lineages its inevitable you're going to have mix and match geneseed organs coming from whatever is left of the marines who have been blown up, blasted with lascannons etc
I feel ya, sounds like a good idea
Minotaurs are rumored to either be pure Iron Warrior or Iron Warrior/Imperial Fists. Now that GW is changing some of the Chapter Lore...as heretical as it sounds...I wouldn't be opposed if they changed the Exorcist from Imperial Fists Successors to descendants of loyalist World Bearers
I totally agree man! The Minotaurs, the Sons of the Phoenix, and a bunch of others that are DEFINITELY descended Imperial Fists/Blueboys in name only.
My favourite second founding chapter, came about by accident of my own design. Owning Space Crusade as a kid and the eventual breaking of attached weapons and power packs meaning I had to mix and match the parts from all the Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Imperial Fists; thus the *Ultra-Bloody Fists* came in to being! :D
@@TheEyez187 That's so awesome it should be Cannon.
You have hit your stride with this, awesome
Very good indeed.
Not just a summery or recitation, it was theory and speculation mixed with reason and logical roads of thought leaving us all to wonder and think on it ourselves instead of beating a drum of "I'm right because my head canon says so!" Lot of interesting ideas about are sharped toothed friends here. Until next time everyone!
Yeah, that pretty much summarizes and adds towards my own ideas of what those sharks are made from. A solid core of old Raven Guard and a spice of Night Lords that were still loyal to the legion's ideals BEFORE papa Kurze gone bonkers. Well, MORE bonkers. And I wish to believe Sevatar was among them. But the idea of Tyberos being a space marinated (ha-ha) thunder warrior was new to me, and I like it.
Thank you for the video.
There seems to be a missed opportunity to mix them with the Wulfen space Marines to get a chapter full of Weresharks. That would also be a cool way to be stealthy, hide them in the water so when they think "oh we got rid of the bases and Soldiers on land we can move in on the planet now-" boom! Space Weresharks coming out of the water.
"You do not see Tyberos"- No one visible, certainly not the Chacaradoms Chapter Master standing right in front of you in full plate
Fantastic video! I had a similar theory about Tyberos linking him to Haar and possibly others. I love the support you provide here especially for the fusion of cultures that over 6k+ years became the “Māori-ish” amalgamation we see in the 41st. You’ve got a new subscriber for sure! Definitely gonna share this with a lot of buddies. Thanks 🙏🏿
That was a great video! Ive seen a few carcharodon lore videos, but none of them talk about their culture and why they act the way they do as well as you explained it. I'd love to see more 40k videos from you, this one and the raven guard one were really really good! I like your unique perspective on their philosiphy and ideals. I'd love to see a video on the minotaurs chapter, they have an equally mysterious chapter master and I'd love to hear your thoughts!
Great video; The Charcardons are one of my favorites:) Thanks!
FINALLY! Someone who actually covers all of the parts of the Carcharodons' lore in one video whilst inserting their own thoughts. Thanks so much, Void Brother
36:55 - I don't know why but the idea of a Carcharodon Space Marine handing a Gamecube to the Mechanicus gave me a good chuckle
All of my head cannon...organized and explained in an effective and informative manner. I once got flamed and heavily down voted for commenting on a forum for suggesting that Tyberos was something other than Astartes, an upgraded Thunder Warrior. I've always imagined that chimeric geneseed could be made by replacing the secondary Progenoid Gland in the neck with a foreign Progenoid Gland and let it "synchronize" with the Primary Progenoid Glan in the abdomen for 5-10 years. Now I'm inspired to kitbash a squad of Astartes from Horus Heresy kits and paint them up in orange Tiger Shark Camo for Kill Team play
Super solider space sharks go *bloop* *bloop*
Bail Sharr uses Mark 3 power armor, its pretty clear in the novels
Amazing video! Extremely comprehensive. Discovered this channel through Conan and had no idea you did 40k as well! 😁
I had no idea this chapter existed. Thank you for this awesome video, a fleet of space marine loyalist pirates is the kind of crazy I like to see in 40K.
What about all the hints at World Eaters Geneseed being in the mix. They use the Ursus Claw in void combat, used exclusively in the past by the World Eaters.
In the short story - The Reaping Time, a captain named Akia (who wields a two-handed chainaxe) halfway joked that they should just slaughter the people they were supposed to meet with.... The Chief-Librarian thinks to himself that Akia's genetic heritage was blatantly obvious..
There are other examples too.
it's 3-way Chimeric Geneseed IMO
I also think Tyberos and Asterion Moloc are former thunder warriors.
AWESOME VID 👍
I do think world eater is in play here for the reference to Akia but also bail sharr. In his duel with the captured world eater in the ashen claws fighting puts there are two instances where the world eater geneseed is hinted at.
That said, your point about the ursus claws is incorrect. They were not solely used by world eaters. Sons of horus have been shown to use them for sure. I also recall there being at least one instance where dark angels used them as well (lord of the first novel I believe).
This brings up a larger point, that typical tactics and wargear usage are just that...typical. Not exclusive. All legions blueprints off of the original marines from Terra, which would be Dark Angels, the further refined their focus. Even then, the legions were not locked to that method and could and would adapt as the situation demanded. We see this with almost all the legions through various books with the possible exception to world eaters (and I'm not even certain with them early on).
I believe the quote "fear is a weapon that sharpens through its use" is from Malcharion the War Sage, former captain of the 10th company and a very jolly dreadnaught.
You were just talking about this last night with the torture. I was getting Deja vu for a second.
They've gradually become my #1 most favorite chapter over the years of reading every novel, every short story or even a mention of participation in any conflict.
There are some chapters who are particularly pious and stubborn, bellicose and ruthless even for Astartes standards, stern and efficient, practical and pragmatic, bloodthirsty and savage, proud and stoic, and then there are those who make the Drukhari and the Night Lords shit their pants without uttering a word, whose chapter master can singlehandedly stop a Tyranid boarding action, or make a chapter master of a ten thousand years-old renegade chapter, literally piss himself and runaway from a position of strength, by calmly and quietly offering him an honorable duel to settle their beef.
This by far the most interesting video about the Carcharodons I've seen, and it's very likely that I've seen them all. Your analysis is spot on and the theories seem very plausible. I can't thank you enough for sharing this, mate. Respect!
thank for awasome vid
Jawsome!
first time seeing one of your videos and after looking at your channel you have a new sucscriber🙂I love 40k lore and I've recently wanted to learn more about Conan.
Wonderful to hear! Hope you enjoy your stay here!
Great video! Only thing I'm confused on is the line about the mantis warriors using civilians as shields. I thought it was their care for their own civilians that the Sharks used against them?
Agreed I've always thought that the Mantis Warriors hit and run tactics were designed to pull the fighting from populated areas to lessen civilian losses and collateral damage. The Carcharodons exploited this to draw them into battle to be annihilated. I believe some of the other chapters either were recalled for being to "soft" or left in protest of the Carcharodons tactics. This would add more credence for the Carcharodons being descended from The Delivers and Arkhas Fal, they use to use Imperial Guard regiments as bait and waited them to be destroyed before deploying to finish off weakened foes
Noted I was probably wrong on this one, thanks for the help. I would pin your comment if I didn't already pin the guy who helped with the OP, good comment! Thank you for contributing!
@@GrimDarkHalfOff No problem. It's admittedly a more obscure detail in the grand scheme of things.
thank you for this in-depth look at the space sharks, i always thought they were cool but now i feel more like i know what their deal is (and their deal makes them EVEN COOLER)
🦈🦈🦈
Best Space Shark content on YT behind Baldermort's video. That's pretty high praise! But, to be fair, I am pretty high.
I am truly honored by this statement, thank you
Damn I really didn't think the carcharadons could get any cooler
Another great video. You have a unique style and perspective and I'm interested in hearing your thoughts about other parts of Warhammer Lore.
Thank you very much, I also have a Raven Guard and machine spirits video out
grate video, as aways
@grim dark. I don’t mean to be intrusive or greedy. But do you think you’ll ever do a review of an imperial guard army you perhaps like?
*Blood Pact*
Jaws theme begins playing.
ha!
Nicor sounds more like a space hulk than an actual barrge sometimes
It’s pretty sweet
"This silent gentle giant is..."
Gentle!? What the
He is baby
Dope Vid brother
Hey. That Marine firing the plasma gun is from Arch Warhammer's badab series
Guy has some good stuff. His politics is cringe but the lore is good
Do you mean something from the thumbnail or the video?
The game footage is me playing a 40K total conversion of Grim Dawn (it’s like Diablo but better)
@GrimDarkHalfOff sorry for getting back so late. I'm referring to 20:15
Space Marine behind the white one on the right hand side. The one firing the plasma gun in a still image
I just recognized it and thought 'oh cool'
Also love your stuff man :) your workout tips are very helpful!
@@BraydenDodmanoh cool sounds nice
Is there tabletop rules for the space sharks? I’m thinking of getting into the game with them
Just their chapter master
@@dominicvucic8654 darn, then what legion should i start with to have him? or what rules of space marines should i use for him? could i use a combat patrol of any space marines and use rules of any of the other space marines?
What is your favorite traitor legion?
Very tough one! I’ll let you know when I have I an answer!
After out of context pics or orks, my introduction to 40k was the space sharks.
But that top ten vid was far to shallow. Ty for making this
They earned it!
wow, what a video, well done
Thanks brother, did Raven Guard too
Finally!!!
do you have a second favourite of the original 20 space marine legions?
That’s a tough one, possibly the Imperial Fists, Space Wolves or Dark Angels
@@GrimDarkHalfOff interesting i myself tend to default to the ultramarines, blood angels and imperial fists. primarily because of the old board games space crusade and space hulk.
@@GrimDarkHalfOffpotential of a video essay on the lion and the dark angels like you did for corax
The only problem is the drop site massicer. Which is one if the reasons that raven guard have so few successors as it is. Like the only reason the ultramarine dominance in succesors is cause they had a shit tone if marines even after calth
So I started 40K almost exactly a year ago and fell for the Carcharodons immediately. This is now my official head canon for them UNTIL the Ultima Founding, when in my mind Cawl would have seen the Sharks as a perfect experiment for his wildest traitor and lost primarch geneseed dreams. So he bribed Tyberos with new recruits and equipment, brought them up to full chapter strength *and then some*… but also stirred in Alpha Legion and World Eaters stock in while also increasing the Raven Guard/Night Lord numbers as well-in addition to stirring in the 2nd and 11th as well until the sharks 🦈 are
Truly something unique.
I have a firstborn army of these guys i made from Horus Heresy plastics.
You know with the idea of that the thunder warriors may of at least in parts been integrated into the Raven guard it begs the question of if that is the case; because this is a theory here; which other legions probably were influenced by that.
Honestly with how the blood angels were back when they were the revenant legion I would put my money on them having elements of this as well (along with the fact that it seems that sanguinis's Gene seed is strong enough that you can practically put underhive mutants through the process practically and they'll come out as perfect blood angels)
Would love for these guys to link up with The Lion, them and the Dark Angels have a similar "edge of the galaxy, fight the REALLY nasty stuff, mind your own business" vibe. Well, that was originally the DA vibe, hopefully will be again soon.
They could have a story about Tyberos dueling Lion and getting quickly put down, impressing him and the Sharks. And Lion can tell they're loyal just by instinct, regardless of mutation, as he kept the Blood Angel and Space Wolves mutations a secret.
Big fan of the idea that Sevetar was the original founder of the sharks, and their being cast into the void was their penance for betraying the emperor.
Idk how that lines up with the lore, but it is pretty cool sounding
Please please do the raptors chapter of the raven guard
I want to!
Well done indeed.
Thanks brother!
"a carcharodon Thats a shaaark"
So, I deleted my original comment. You did mention the possibility of corvus being the forgotten one, I missed it the first watch through because it was brief. For me, what makes me think it has to be corvus is the line that the forgotten one was sired by the Emperor, and you draw the comparison to Christianity with the Emperor being the father, forgotten one being the son, and void being the holy ghost. I feel like a primarch is the only good fit. Additionally, it mentioned the forgotten one could recall them back to terra? Corvus sent them out to the outer dark it makes sense to me he should be the one that could call them back. (Ignoring whatever high lord functionary called them for the re founding but I don't think that was at terra?)
My favorite! Nothing scarier than entering the Milky Way your some over powered Zeno and then tyberos t bags your dead body ! 😂
I'm deeply pissed at how quickly McFarlane Toys gave up on their Warhammer 40K line of figures, but they bailed before getting to my favorite space marine factions, the Space Wolves and Charcaradons.
Joytoy put them out of business. Way better quality.
@@ianbush4382 my comment was left a year ago. While you're certainly correct to observe that Joy Toy has become the leader amongst fans, McF didn't get the rights to Dark Tide and Space Marine 2 if they weren't moving merch. And in this last year, we've seen more Warhammer releases. My comment turned out to be wrong due to time, yours is silly even as you made it.
What game were you playing in the beginning with the space marine running around?
Love the video, not sure what’s up with the image shakes though ❤
It’s the style I’m going for, like a slide projector presentation before being deployed in a war movie
I actual want to posit a bit of an out there theory, that the Space Sharks are scions of the Space Wolfs.
My reasoning comes from a similar flaw that they share where as the Marines get older:
their skin begins to grey,
their pupils change
and more importantly, they become more reclusive.
Now I do not think they are pure space wolf successors, but I do think they where mixed in there.
Thing is, those traits are shared with both the Raven Guard and Night Lords…
Loved this man awesome job! (I keep forgetting I changed my name on here I am Alpharius this is not a lie)
Much appreciated
You are amazing
My favorite chapter . Every thing about them is very cool. The are simple but cool. Brutal cruel but loyal my favorite things for characteristics of a chapter. No purpose only just kill enemy's of amperor and gave shit about honor only risen the are Brutal because the are like rape and tearing there enemy's with chainsaw. I like the are cold as weapons the are cared. The are known how how using the blood lost
I really want Tyberos to be a Thunder Warrior, but I have to honor the lore. Here's something from Red Tithe
“With the exception of the slumbering Greats in
their white suits of Dreadnought armour, Te Kahurangi was by far the oldest
member of the Chapter. Sharr had heard it said that he was only three
generations removed from the Wandering Ancestors, the first to have gone
into the void, alone, at the behest of the Forgotten One.“
Don't miss the devil in the details here. Sharr hears a rumor about the three generations, but before that part, the book doesn't speak from the viewpoint of the Company Master, it just lays down a lore fact, namely that Te is by far the oldest member of the chapter. The use of absolute language, the “by far“, stresses the point even more.
So Tyberos can simply not have lived more than Te. For that theory to work you'd would have to presume that the Carcharodons are not a single chapter but they rather follow the Legion rule of multiple Legion Chapters. That would be cool, and reminds you of the Red Corsairs who are Legion-size SM pirates, but unfortunately, to my knowledge there is no backing evidence for that, making it a stretch to propose it, or straight up wrong to just assume it. Please correct me if you believe I'm wrong, but that passage effectively speaks volumes on the hierarchy of the Carcharodons and should never be forgotten (no pun intended).
So who is Tyberos? Instinct says he is made from the Progenoids of Endryd Haar. Who is Te? No idea, would love to have him being Sevatar, having unlocked his psychic potential.
I loved reading this, and it made me want to make more 40k stuff
Ahhh OUR WAYWARD
COUSINS, OUT IN THE VOID, THE ASHEN CLAWS AND THE CARCHARODONS,
TRULY BRUTAL SONS OF CORAX.
"VICTORUS AUT MORTIS "
well said brother
wow i think you are overthinking this.
sharks were just cool in the 90's, like bikers and dwarf bikers
“Overthinking this”
Yes that’s the point of the video congrats
what is the game thats being played in the background I keep typing in 40k mod for diablo but inquisitor keeps showing up
It’s the 40K total conversion mod for Grim Dawn
You've inspired me to create my own homebrew based on on the Ravenguard. You, dear sir, are now the inspiration and the reason why the Space Pigeons now exist. Their chilling warcry (Cooooo) strikes fear into traitors who have learned to expect a sudden high-velocity attack that leaves them without what they previously had and has now been Space Snatched. The veterans are known as the Goodfeathers.
I look forward to reading about them
Ooooh! And they carry the many blessed curses of Grand Pappy.
Unfortunately there's only 3 relatively short Carcharadon books and that's it. BL needs to write moooooar.
9:55 - Lone wolf Batman Syndrome; should be re-named to DarkClaw syndrome! DarkClaw, being the (official) Wolverine/Batman amalgam character; Fits well. Smart, powerful, well equipped and F'in hard to kill; and they both have adamantium or other durable materials embedded, whilst also wearing armour on top!! >XD
10:31 - So you're saying it wasn't *Alien* to those of Nostromo!?! >XD
My favourite second founding chapter, came about by accident of my own design. Owning Space Crusade as a kid and the eventual breaking of attached weapons and power packs meaning I had to mix and match the parts from all the Ultramarines, Blood Angels and Imperial Fists; thus the *Ultra-Bloody Fists* came in to being! :D
Who did the Mantis Warriors think they were fighting Salamanders; the only chapter that tactic would certainly work against; otherwise what's a human meat shield to a bolt round or chainsword; might stop two bolts at best and then you're open for damage! :D
When the Mantis warrior chaplains give sermons does that make all the marines "Praying Mantis"!! How did the Mantis Warrior lose his head? He got laid! Haaa, Damn I'm funny!
44:00 - I loved the story of the Carcharadon torture of a Dark Elf; sensory deprivation chamber sounds idyllic... unless you're a Drukhari!
New 40K channel; awesome content; subbed!!
Great video, but the shaking of the image is driving me mad, though.
Don’t worry I won’t be using that method again
Fog in the streets, a church clock beats
Midnight, darkness all around
You better beware, you better take care
Be prepared for the shock
The time has come and he's the one
Who's breathing down your neck
Coming from behind, now it's your time
A loser will die
Fast as a shark, he'll cut out of the dark
He's a killer, he'll rip out your heart
On a one way, track and you're not coming back
'Cause the killer's on the attack
Surprise attack, coming from the back
An expert of the deadly knack
Just take care, just beware
Be prepared for the fight
Fast as a shark, he'll cut out of the dark
He's a killer, he'll rip out your heart
On a one way, track and you're not coming back
'Cause the killer's on the attack - Accept "Fast as a Shark"
You, my friend, have impeccable musical taste 🤘
What is he playing in the background?
Mechanicus OST
What game is this?
Haar was for sure a ex thunder warrior.
I do love the idea of tyberos being a thunder warrior but... That's 10,000 years. Dante is only jist about 1000
I still have no idea where “Dante is the oldest space marine” comes from. I even here other UA-camrs say that. It makes no sense under any circumstances and seems like an extra restriction on creativity just for the sake of a restriction. It’s just weird.
They stay in cryosleep, they must be sleeper sharks 🦈 💤 6:52
WHATS THAT TYBEROS MINI!!!!!!! GIVE RED TITHE now!!!!^^
Oh Emperor... these psykos. I'm not even sure if they follow the "you can't have more than a 1000 Marines" rule (which makes the Administratum and Inquisition siccing them and the Minotaurs on the Maelstrom Warders even more rich). Still they're a pretty good representation of 40k: irredeemable monsters in any other setting until you realize that they're the savage pitbull keeping the monsters at bay.
Kinda curious who the Inquisition finds more insane, the Carcaradons Astra or the Flesh Tearers
No one the inquisition is way crazier. Specially the Horusians.
Plus the 1000k stuff have been lifted as per ultima founding.
@@livanbard *1000 limit.
As for the Horusians, yeah they're nuts. But the Istvaanians are insane too
They're on crusade, it's allowed.
The timeline in the video is way off. Carcharodons were exiled pre-heresy. Zel was HH era. Tiger-stripe and white livery predates the gray.
Ok so if you actually listen to the video nothing you just said goes against my theory at all.
@@GrimDarkHalfOff I listened to the entire video.
The Carcharodons were exiled before the HH by years. They were not recalled by Corax using the HH. Their chapter predates the 2nd Founding and any NL having a coming to The Emperor moment. While there are some similarities between the Carcharodons and NL, their tactics are quite distinct. These tactics existed in the Great Crusade era XIXth, there is no need for any Nostroman admixture to explain their existence.
They are NOT raven guard. Sevatars last known words are very similar to the oath of the space sharks. Too heavy handed to not be the truth
I don't even think you bothered watching the video, but I appreciate your comment anyway
Please do khorne my good man
And perhaps world eaters also
I want to do a video on each of the chaos gods