Without Karen their is no carpenters Richard. You were great composer and made the music. But she was the angelic voice sent straight from heaven. Without her theirs no grammys no band. That error brought rock n roll to it's knees. And Motown and many great artists.. karen carpenter shined like the ANGEL she was/is.. truth Love her ❣❣❣
Without Richard, there (not their) is no Carpenters too. Richard is a brilliant pianist, composer, and arranger. His arrangements, compositions, and song selections were just as important to their (not there) success as Karen's wonderful voice.
Karen was the voice. Richard was the sound. They couldn’t have complimented each other any better. Without either one of them, there were no Carpenters. It was “s” plural for a reason.
Every parent reading about karen carpenters tragic life should take notice. Being a good parent is the most important thing you'll ever do in your life. If you have children they need to know they are loved and have value as people. Karen desperately wanted her mother's approval and never got it. I think the consequences of Agnes not being able to show love her daughter was central to Karen's unhappiness and possibly one of the triggers that led to her anorexia nervosa and death. The formative experiences of childhood really do matter.
I was always secretly in love with her, with that sweet, velvet, silk voice. I still enjoy her songs, still in love with her. RIP, sweet Karen. I and others forget you not !
every time I see something about karen carpenter I get teary cause she could have been helped a lot sooner. her brother claims they tried to help her. I think she could have been helped sooner. it's too bad she left this world too soon. I wish I'd been her friend I would have helped her see she wasn't well. some day we ll be with her. god bless her.
Karen was a perfectionist. This characteristic made her an incredible artist, but also caused her to be very hard on herself, including the way "she should look." Richard would even tell her a recording was fine, but she wanted to redo it "better." It's not fair to blame Richard, who was bedeviled by Quaalude addition in mid/late 70's and in no great health himself.
Actually, Karen wasn't a perfectionist. I remember Karen saying to me about a therapist once saying that Karen was an over achiever and Karen said, "How can I be an over achiever when I really don't have any goals or objectives? Figure that one out."Honestly, the shrinks messed up BIG TIME with Karen. I talked with Karen herself and I can tell you that absolutely NOTHING I have ever heard from the shrinks has ever matched anything I knew about Karen personally. As Karen said, "Most of the time I have no idea who they are talking about. About all I hear is the word Karen and then a bunch of stuff comes out of their mouths that doesn't make any sense or sound like me at all." All you have to do is look around on the internet and Karen's statement still holds true today.Like this stuff... Like Karen said, "It seemed like every time I said something to one of them, I got told that I was wrong and that I was lying. A prime example is that me and my brother Richard have never competed against each other. I told them that Richard and I are brother and sister so we compliment and not compete with one another. What were Richard and I going to compete over? Who could iron shirts the fastest? For some reason they couldn't answer me on that one." And Karen said, "It seemed like a game with them that every time I said something they would try to tell me that I said the exact opposite of what I said. I would try to correct them and they would say that I wasn't listening. So then I said, Earth to therapist, if I wasn't listening then how did I know that what you said wasn't what I said?"And it just kept getting worst...Seriously, believe absolutely NOTHING that any shrink has ever said about Karen Carpenter. NOTHING! Your sanity will thank you for it. Seriously. Repeat after me, "If it doesn't seem to make sense then chances are someone is making stuff up that is not true."And Karen said, "I remember the one session where me and my family were there and they kept accusing us of being liars and that we were just trying to cover up for each other and hide from the truth, so I asked them what the truth was and we all just sat there silent for a little while and then we all just walked out on them and never went back. That's the truth."Another time Karen said to me, "They seem to just keep trying to dig up dirt on me for the tabloids. I don't have any dirt. I have nothing to hide. So they keep making stuff up."And the big ones...And then, "I don't know what the big deal is that my mother doesn't hug me makes the front page. My mother doesn't hug my brother either but you never hear that mentioned." And honestly, I saw Karen and her brother hug each other both times that Richard visited Karen at the school. Once in 1978 and once in 1979. I can only imagine what the tabloids would have done if they had got pictures of that. And honestly, they just hugged. Very heart felt hugs, but hugs none the less. In all honesty, Karen's and Richard's mother, Agnes, was not someone that hugged people. Agnes was never a mean person unless you did something wrong, she just wasn't a hugger. And Karen said, "I was there and they brought my mom in and told me and my mom to hug each other. It was very awkward because my mom was not a hugger and they never discussed this with me or my mom beforehand. So there they were trying to force me and my mom to hug each other. It was horrible. You don't force people to hug each other like that in front of total strangers. I don't know what they were thinking but I let them know what I was thinking and they didn't like it. Next thing I know it ends up in the papers with a lot of misleading information as usual. I am actually glad that me and my mother didn't hug because they probably would have accused us of being what was that word again?" And I said, "Lezzies, um, lesbians." And Karen was like, "Yeah, they would have probably put it all over the papers that me and my mom were lesbians. I'm so furious over this. How is trying to traumatize people helping them?" And I was like, "I'm going to duck now, but if you do turn lesbian can I watch?" And Karen gave me that evil look like I knew she would and said, "Not funny Adrian. Honestly, I like guy parts, not girl parts. I thought about it, and I could never be like that." And she smiled and then said, "Thanks, I just realized that how can I turn lesbian or whatever when I can't even bring myself to hug my own mother?" And I was like, "Yeah, you can't believe all that you read in the tabloids. But then again, some people will believe anything or else the tabloids wouldn't be selling. I mean honestly, your therapy sessions are supposed to be private. Like you said, this is bad, and you're right about that, I would be furious too." And she was like, "Richard's looking into it. There were definitely some breach of privacy issues broken. Thanks for being my sounding board. I've been so upset lately over this as you've probably noticed. Thanks for helping me feel better like always." And I was like, "My pleasure. It's always great seeing that awesome smile of yours. Thanks." And she was like, "Pardon me for asking, but have you ever thought about becoming a doctor when you get older? I think you would make a good doctor. You've always helped me out a lot." And I was like, "I've thought about it, Doctor Ace, but it's not like the old days when people became doctors to help people. Anymore, it's all about making money as you've been noticing and I'm not like that." I am not sure if this is a continuation of the "hug me" incident or something else possibly. But I remember Karen telling me that her and her mother were at the mental clinic and Karen and her mother were together in a therapy session. After the psychiatrist or therapist had tried to accuse her family of not caring about Karen, Karen became so furious at them that she burst into tears and started yelling at them. As Karen said to me, "My family has always been there for me and trying to say that my family didn't care about me was the straw that broke the camel's back. If it wasn't for my family suggesting it, I never would have went there in the first place. But I was having problems and it seemed like they (psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists) only made my problems worst. I had the eating disorder and it had nothing to do with my family. No one else in my family had the problem of anorexia nervosa and so trying to blame my family just does not make any sense. But saying my family did not love or care about me was just an outright lie and I let them have it for saying that. I was furious and in tears because I was so mad at them." Karen dropped the F bomb on them right in front of her mother and Karen was waiting for her mother to backhand her but instead Karen's mother said to Karen something like "Enough Karen, we need to leave this place. This place isn't doing you any good or me either." And Karen and her mom walked out of the place and to the family car in the parking lot of the clinic. Karen then told me that her mother got Karen into the car and then gave Karen the keys to the car and told Karen that if a bunch of emergency vehicles showed up that Karen needed to leave with the car and get out of there and just go home. Karen's mother told Karen that now it was her turn to give them a piece of her mind after what had happened (which probably was the 'hug' session, but not 100% sure now, but close to 100%). Karen's mother then gave Karen a "I'm probably never going to see you again" hug and slammed the door to the car and proceeded to walk at least a half city block back into the clinic and Karen said that she had the windows rolled up in the car and could still hear every word her mother said to them after her mother went inside the building. Karen's mother came back out afterwards and got into the car and Karen and her mother left and went home. When Karen got the bill, she went into the clinic and the people there were holding the doors for her and apologizing and such. Karen went in and paid the bill and then left and never went back there again.
Adrian , how did you talk to karen when you look so young now ? what years did you talk to her? are you a therapist? how did you know her? how old are you? if you really knew her ,you and i can have a fantastic conversation concerning my major insights on karen. i would love to talk to you . peace to you . thanks
@@stevemacagne6080 that's part of why only certain people knew about Karen and me. I was 13 when Karen and I met and her and I were a lot alike so we became very close very fast. I'm 35 (oops, 40 before, bit 35) in my picture here and 55 now. I actually made a web page about us as Karen and I had a lot of things happen in short times. Try this www.theeaceman.com/karentime.html . Karen and I talked about a lot of stuff shared many wonderful memories together and I did the page as it is easier than trying to remember all the details and such.
did this all happen in the physical realm or the astral projection realm? she wasn't in new york in 78 and was busy with music. dude this looks like fiction. it cant be real, no offense meant to you though.
@@stevemacagne6080 thought 2. Karen and you? Really? Why? Well, Karen and I could see each other's thoughts... The web page and information on Karen was put together with the stuff that needed explaining first and then the information that explains later. Much like in real life some things happen and then you find out why later, but not always as in real life. But most of the stuff I wrote before the "Paul Williams visits" section was stuff that happened before Karen told me who she was. And the reason why Karen told me who she was was because we were very close very quickly (about a month and a half) and Karen was worried that if I knew she was Karen Carpenter that I might start thinking of her differently. I never did because it is impossible to replace someone that can literally see what you're thinking and you can see what they're thinking. It happened. That was why Karen and I became so close and stayed that way. I was only 13 at the time which was a mess. You find that someone special and they turn out to be jail bait so to speak. Well... And so the truth goes... Not a story... I couldn't honestly make this stuff up if I tried. I wrote it out as I remembered it. I wasn't looking to prove or disprove anything but just to try and remember and get the details of all this stuff as best as I could. Thanks. I hope I understand, but with all of your questions that you have, UA-cam just isn't big enough.
How on earth does anybody who has lost a loved one not feel ANY guilt?. You feel guilt for the last words you could of said, guilt for not being there , guilt for not helping more and so on. From my experience guilt is a big factor in grief you would have to be a pretty darn hard person not to feel any!. Karen a voice of an angel but a soul so troubled.
How do you know he doesn't feel guilt? He's not saying he was perfect to her, just that he did everything he could regarding the eating disorder. Anorexics are like drug addicts in that they have to want treatment themselves for it to work. Karen was still sneaking around abusing ipecac & vomiting after her therapy w/ Dr. Levenkron. Nobody had a clue, including the doctor. She left early against the doctor's warnings & continued her secretive behavior. In that sense, no. There's nothing anyone could've done about that. Now, whether her family could've been more emotionally warm & less controlling in the first place, I'd say the definitely could have.
For those who has doubts about Richard; you must remember that Richard and Karen grew up in the 60s and 70s. People’s mind set was different back then. Women mostly revolved their existence around the men in their lives. I have seen many interviews from female celebrities talk about that era, women taking leading roles was ground breaking in 50s-70s. Neil Sedaka was a little fat in Even in the late 70s, a divorced woman was looked down 60s and 70s, but he was a hit then; but nobody called him any fat names. At the hight of The Carpenters’ success, yes Richard was very concerned about his success as a musician; and not his sister’s internal emotional battles. Karen’s death really did bring this sickness to public awareness. It was shortly after Karen’s death that movies and TV shows would have story lines about anorexia and bulimia. I find it weird that Richard didn’t do much work with other artists after Karen died because some other artists would have truly benefitted from Richard’s music arrangements, music. It appears he is mostly stuck in the years he and Karen were still success.
Richard was still in shock upto this moment (interview) he could not accept that Karen is gone.. he just could not accept it to himself and talking about her death seems so final for him .. people can say anything they want but we could have shown compassion for Him .. ultimately ..Karen is the reason why the carpenter was well known.. the angellic voice that no one can imitate to this day..
I loved Karen. There will never be another one like her. I just wish they would make an album of all her unreleased recordings on CD and LP. When they do. I want to get a copy of it please. Thank you.
she was a great voice if she lived she probably would have went on her own!! she really didn't need him, that's why he hated the solo album that was scrapped!! he feared that she would leave him.
Absolutely. Just imagine the pressure Karen must've felt to keep the brand going. Solo albums, venturing into film, leaving to start a family or anything else was not acceptable. Her mom & brother had her locked in. While I'm sure they loved her, she was also their meal ticket.
@@MsNooneinparticular you are both so wrong. It was Richard who wrote the music who choreograph everything she basically did. Richard also produced their music. It was Richard that turn Karen into a star, and Karen knew that only too well. Karen has said it in many interviews and Richard was the true Talent behind their group. Richard made Karen a star! Do your homework before making such stupid comments!!
@@brkitdwn Absolutely! Richard was just as integral to the success of the Carpenters as Karen. Listen to Karen's solo album. While it's very good (because it's Karen Carpenter's voice), the songs and arrangements pale in comparison to the Carpenter's material because Richard was a brilliant arranger and composer, and knew how to get the most out of Karen's talent. Those other people just wanted to turn Karen into a disco star and cash in. Richard was just trying to protect Karen's image and the Carpenter brand. Nothing wrong with that.
The answer to why Karen committed a slow suicide is to be found in her earliest childhood. The experiences in childhood and adolescence serve to write the software of the brain, and Karen, by all accounts was dominated by her mother, and mocked by her peers over her chubbiness. The formative years are when a person is most vulnerable, and any wounds inflicted here are usually deep and irreversible, they last with us for a lifetime. Blaming individuals who made cruel remarks is valid though, and a lesson to us all to count to ten before we so blithely mock or dismiss those we quarrel with.
Dysfunctional family dynamics play a huge role. Our parents are our biggest influence. But the pressures of the music business are notorious for bringing MANY (maybe even most) entertainers to their knees at some point. Some recover & some don't. The Carpenters did 118 shows in 5 months in 1975. That's when both of them started spiraling into their respective addictions. Then their popularity started waning a bit, which is hard for a lot of stars to take. Especially perfectionist, Type A people like KC & RC. Karen battled with her weight as a teen & was then called "chubby" & "cherubic" by critics, which sent her into an obsession with losing weight. What started as normal dieting spiraled into an addiction of sorts. After the crazy touring in '75, Richard's drug addiction was the first in a series of stressful events for Karen. The shelving of her beloved solo album was the 2nd major blow, and Richard & Agnes both played a role in discouraging her from that venture. She spent $400,000 to make it & was supremely proud of it, and it wasn't released. Then she got into a horrid marriage with a man who had deceived her about his vasectomy & proceeded to drain her financially while verbally abusing her, calling her a "bag of bones". But yes, the favoritism & controlling nature of her mom (and sometimes brother) definitely played a role. As with all mental illnesses, the cause can't be narrowed down to a single event or person though.
I agree early childhood experiences last forever, and be damned if you can EVER get rid of the feelings. I am 72 Karen's age today if she had lived, the hurt is still with me.
After watching the documentary Karen didn’t get the support from her family especially her parents! The parents seamed to favor Richard over Karen! Karen was starving for attention and love from her parents! Then the disappointment of Karen not being able to release her own album that she recorded 😢
This poor man did the best he could with dysfunctional parents. He was an old soul but he would had to have been an exceptionally elevated young man to have the ability to examine it all objectively and know exactly how to save his kid sister with anorexia. That’s a heavy burden to place on anyone. My uncle and my mom had the same age difference and were as close as siblings could be, but if my mom had had anorexia I know my uncle would have been utterly clueless as to what to do, other than say, I love you, I’m concerned, you have to eat.
Oh Richard news flash! You don't help somebody by "picking on them"! And how can you say that your family "doesn't feel any guilt towards your sister's death"?!
Maybe, maybe not...I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt and he loved his sister first and foremost.. I am sure it was very painful talking about her death, which seems very apparent to me... For some, it's hard to talk about their deepest emotions, especially of a loved one who has passed. Of course, he would naturally grieve the loss of the music they could have made had she not died... That in my opinion is natural and not necessarily a selfish thing. God bless Richard and his family..
melrose795,Liza Velez. You may be interested in searching this clip:"The Passing Of Karen Carpenter,Australian News Reports" and watching the last clip, which is Richards appearance on "Good Morning Australia" in 1983.(The interviewer is Gordon Elliot, the same guy doing the voiceover here) Richard is probably the most sad of any interview here on UA-cam. This was a live to air interview I watched when broadcast, which left a sympathetic impression on me that hasn,t shifted for 36 years.
i really do believe that richard loved his sister and misses her deeply. it's clear from this video. i've read a lot of the comments on youtube suggesting that he didn't care about her, but i don't believe them. it's possible that sometimes he acted selfishly and without regard for karen's happiness because of his own agenda. but sometimes my father treats me in ways that make me feel that he doesn't care about my happiness, but i know that he loves and cares about me.
I saw the Carpenters in Rochester, NY. The year was 1973. I wondered why she stayed behind thr drums fot most of the concert. Richard did all the talking..It was as if she had her own reasons for staying behind the scenes. Go figure.
It was the drugs she was taking to vomit that damaged her heart. Had Karen knew this, I believed she would have stopped taking that harmful over the counter drug. She was cured of anorexia and gaining weight but her heart was already damaged. Sad tragedy.
Correct. In a way, I partially blame government regulators for this. Syrup of Ipecac is a drug that should never have been displayed on shelves in the customer areas of a pharmacy. It should have been dispensed only by a pharmacist, who would have explained the dangers to a purchaser. Ipecac, itself, is a poison -- that is why it makes you vomit. It is meant to be taken "one-time only" -- to cause you to throw up a WORSE poison that you took accidentally, or whatever. It should be a long time before another dose of Ipecac is taken, because Ipecac causes damage to the heart muscle (and perhaps nerves also, not certain) each time you take it. I can't really blame Karen for not knowing this -- in the hectic life the Carpenters lived, she probably didn't have much time to read and study bottle labels. I figure Karen probably assumed if it was on the shelf in the public area of a drugstore, it was probably safe to use. I'm sure she would not have taken it, if she had realized how dangerous repeated dosing with Syrup of Ipecac was. I believe production/sale of Ipecac has been discontinued, due to being relatively ineffective for it's intended uses, and dangerous if misused. We were lucky and blessed to Karen Carpenter here with us, even if it was just for a short time. I wish it could have been longer. She was truly a light of love in this dark world. I surely do miss her. Still listen to her singing and watch her videos quite often. She has a way of cheering me up when nothing else will. Hope to see her again when I, too, "cross-over".
Anorexia and the laxatives messed up her heart, no doubt. Yet what really did her in was the procedure - "Hyperalimentation," where the doctors fed her through IV to put alot of weight on her very fast. Now, rapid weight loss or gain is an extremely dangerous thing to do. So everything she went through just weakened her heart even more until it had finally had enough and sadly stopped
It's hard to understand, but Karen's problems were not just weight loss. (Even though at her lowest she was under 80 lbs.) The chemicals (ipecac) she took not only reduced calories that caused organ wasting, but dehydrated and physically damaged heart muscle and likely kidneys. It's not just severe weight loss.
@janxjanxjanx Impossible for him not to know, as you said. Funny, what he'll miss the most is making records and such. How about just missing his sister? If not for her, nobody would know or heard of him. She was the music. She also seemed to be so, so sincere a person. What a terrible loss.
Karen visited Nazi concentration camps which her Jewish bosses wanted her and the crew to see. The plight of the wasting away Jews could have somehow attached itself to her, and been internalized within her. I wonder if she may also have seen the 1928 film, The Passion of Joan of Arc. Karen's life and death mimic the Maid of Lorraine/Orleans in many ways, but not in all ways of course. It has been said that, "Karen Carpenter is the preeminent martyr of easy listening. The Joan of Arc of soft rock." "I AM the drum upon which God is beating out his message." -- Joan of Arc. The tragic early passing of both Joan of Arc and Karen Carpenter had profound effects on those close to them, and on those many people not close to them, but who loved them dearly. Joan and Karen are greatly missed by the world. Nice that we still have Richard with us.
Why doesn't he went to NY with Karen??? He was her loved brother, her best friend, her confident. But he stayed in LA...She needded his entire support!!!
If Richard had truly really loved his sister he would have encouraged and helped her, if asked, in making her solo album. When Karen was in New York see Dr. Levenkron, who saved my daughter's life, Richard should been with her, talking with Levenkron and doing everything possible to save Karen. Shame on you Richard.
Are you Freakin Kidding me. Richard Loved his sister, and fyi You cannot stop a person from their Mind Set. Karen had a mind of her own, and you can't blame Richard for what happened to Karen. If you want to put the blame on anyone or anything blame the proprietors for putting Laxatives on the shelves in pharmacies which is an easy way to get young girls to lose weight, and make them have heart problems as well.
None of the family supported her journey into therapy. In the time she was in New York, they only saw her once. She was on her own emotionally, which is why she probably had fallen into anorexia in the first place...Richard will never see this unfortunately. It's easier to blame Dr. Levenkron.
Karen went into Levenkron's clinic in January 1982 and then Karen had to be hospitalized in September 1982 weighing 84 or 86 pounds. It was supposed to be a private meeting with Levenkron, Karen and her family so what was Itchie Ramone doing there? Levenkron was not an honest person about the dealings with Karen and the family. If the clinic did actually help your daughter then excellent. Some bad things went on that Karen personally told me about which is why I know better than to trust Levenkron about anything to do with his treating Karen. Karen was 86 pounds at most and went to Lennox Hill in September 1982 then November 1982 Karen weighed 104 after leaving Lennox Hill. Karen then stayed at her parents afterwards and weighed 108 pounds when she passed away February 1983. Karen told me that her and her mom had come up with an idea where Karen only weighed herself once a week and Karen's weight had appeared to be steady from November 1982 to February 1983 at over 100 pounds for those three and a half to four months at her parents.
he would have done anything to make sure she never ventured too far from his control either. His obsession with keeping his cash cow who was destined for greatness WITHOUT him contributed greatly to her condition. Her GMA interview in 1981 was a disgrace. Karen looked near death and should have been in a hospital, not doing tv spots. Her well-being was completely inconsequential to them.
Honestly Thomas B, did you ever talk to Karen about what you just posted? From September 1978 to June 1979 in all honesty, Karen lived with her cousin Wendy in New York State and I only saw Richard around twice in the area during that time. What control? I personally knew Karen and that's why I know better than to believe that junk written in the tabloids and such. Karen and Richard were always each other's best friends. Karen always loved her family and Karen knew her family always loved her. The tabloids have never been anyone's friends in all honesty and more honestly the tabloids don't know what love is or else they wouldn't print the garbage that they print. Richard didn't force Karen to appear on the GMA. Karen was a tomboy. Honestly, think about that.
@@adriandowningiii8395 You are blessed sir. You are speaking with a very hurt (still) population that truly love her. She connects to soul. This is much more than a voice. So much more. She was an ANGEL sent straight from heaven. Lots of Monday morning quarterbacks now. Fact is you cannot save yourself from yourself. We can point fingers all we want. Could she of been saved?? Absolutely she could of been. Not necessarily by her family or friends. She had to maintain her own control and showing weakness to friends and family is not easy. Especially for her. The shame is that that person was never given the opportunity to save her. That person never came into her life. We mustn't question God's plan. Just try to understand them. We still mourne her. The soul her. Not the fame her. She was alot more spiritual than she knew. And her spirit now is very mellow,kind and loving. She is healthy, happy and safe now. And if you connect with spirit she is still very much alive. God bless you sir.
@@backtheblue280 I saw the final report on the autopsy for Karen. No one knew she was diabetic and her level was over 1100 which is deadly. Can not really blame that on anyone including Karen as Karen didn't have sweets too often. Even today, no one seems to know. And best to try and learn as blaming never solves anything and even worst when someone falsely accuses. Best wishes Timothy. Karen, as well as the rest of us, are where we are meant to be. Thank you. Karen was Methodist and always believed in getting three signs for the father, son, and Holy Ghost. And as we are created in His image, He has a great sense of humor too so try not to take things too seriously.
@@adriandowningiii8395meu amigo,você parece ser uma pessoa paga pra defender a família de Karen,algo não está certo aqui.... Você diz ser tão amigo dela,mas toma partido do lado da família dela o tempo todo....muito estranho? Até os amigos íntimos dela, como Olivia newton John afirmaram que Richard era ciumento e controlador fora do normal com sua própria irmã,parece que todo mundo sabia isso,menos você né ? Você é só um perseguidor,que está posicionado do lado errado pelo visto!
You can see Richard is having a difficult time talking about karen.This had to be very emotional for him.I think he could have done more to help her but you can't help feel bad for him.
Her brother sat with her on good morning America in 1981...look it up.. How in the hell would he sit there with her looking horrible and skeletal? It was disturbing. Also he and his mother would not allow Karen to release a solo record because it was risqué and would ruin the carpenter's goody goody side...her mom was an ass hole who loved the son, but couldn't handle or allow her daughter to grow...I cannot stand this man... find him icy and remorseless and insincere....I adore Karen. .that solo album was soooo good..I'm a bass player and I was impressed...400k in 78 to make it....they paid it and in 96 released it finally...Karen was the star...brother was a pos jerk...when she died so did his career...serves him right...
In all seriousness @sprintbass, Karen and Richard were very close. In all honesty, anyone that did not like Karen's brother, Richard, would not last long around Karen. Karen, herself, never said she wished to leave Richard. Phil Ramone tried to say that Karen wanted to leave Richard and it was never true. Karen honestly only did her solo album because Richard wanted her to do it. Karen dedicated her solo album to her brother Richard, seriously. I was around Karen from September 1978 to June 1979 which is how I know. Rod Temperton, Karen, and I were the only three that knew the stories behind the songs "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall" which were originally for Karen's solo album but then got siphoned off to Michael Jackson. You may adore Karen, but unfortunately with what you said about Karen's mom and her brother, she would not wish to be around you in all honesty. Oops, and actually 500K as there was the original 400K plus an extra 100K taken from future Carpenter royalties. Oops, and on Christmas Eve 2019, I forgot that Karen had told a few people some things about leaving Richard and such, but it is a long story. I was 18 and Karen and I were going to elope and so... Long story... Karen was honestly not going to be leaving Richard, but...
Bloody brother his selfishness not only ruined her brilliant career but also destroyed the life of an angel!!!! This coward should be in prison for abuse and neglect!!!!!!
You are nuts. You know nothing about these people. You were not part of their lives. You know nothing and shouldn't be commenting about him or her. Comment on your own life and family not someone you are not part of or have no knowledge of whatsoever.
SHE was special. Without her, Richard would be nowhere. He knew it. Their mother? Very controlling and always reminding Karen that it was he who was her favorite. So sad. And makes me angry. Instead of telling her no, you're going to get help, the music can wait, they let her continue with it.
Karen was an INFJ Type A personality (MBI - Myers Briggs Whatever). Richard was the same type as am I the same type too. Perfection isn't all it is cracked up to be. People see something to be perfect, but what happens when things get better and perfect isn't good enough anymore? The real world of the INFJ in a nutshell.
yes he misses his sister , making records with her was probably fun and thrilling, and don't think they didn't have meaningful discussions during all this time recording. Also, it might be hard for a man to understand why women like to diet so much. It's something many men do not think of, like women do.
Oh boy, um... Where to start? Thank you Sammy Bear. Well said. Did anyone posting on here actually know Karen or Richard or their family? It doesn't sound it from what I see posted here. In all honesty Karen loved her family very much and Karen knew her family loved her very much too. I can see from what the rest have written here that most of you have never met or known Karen and it shows in the horrible and terrible things that many have posted here.
I created a web page for those interested in what Karen and I talked about plus events that happened between us from September 1978 to June 1979, and then mid June (12, 15 to 18) 1981 plus her phone call to me on February 3, 1983 here www.theeaceman.com/karentime.html .
What has Richard accomplished since Karen died? Nothing. Karen did not receive what she needed from her family. She was the superstar. Richard was no more than a lounge pianist without Karen.
@@nealbraatz3911 sounded like a bratty comment...lol. What did Richard do after the voice of Karen died? NOTHING. He would have done nothing without her. He was just another pianist like the hundreds you find everyday in ten cent bars.
@@seedsofhopeonline Karen and Richard Carpenter. During their career, the DUO scored 5 Top 10 albums on Billboard 200, 3 number ones singles, 12 top 10 singles and 20 top 40 hits on Billboard Hot 100. Karen's solo album: not a Top 10 album, 0 number one singles, 0 top 10 singles, 0 top 40 hits on Billboard Hot 100. What's the one difference? The "lounge pianist". Also, after Karen died, Richard got married and raised 5 children, something Karen desperately wanted for herself. She definitely wouldn't have called that doing NOTHING.
@@nealbraatz3911 you and I differ. I thought we were talking professionally about Richard’s career. Karen was nearly dead when she recorded the solo album. Her family, especially Richard, fueled Karen’s disorder. Richard was nothing without Karen and he knew it. After Karen’s death Richard’s career was over. I don’t doubt Richard had some kind of love for Karen but it seems his own distorted ego ...that was formed by their mother, fueled Karen’s eating disorder and led to this great loss. With a good producer Karen would have been a superstar anyway. Without Karen...Richard was a lounge pianist.
@@seedsofhopeonline We don't differ in our opinions of Karen. She was brilliant and probably would have had a successful career on her own. I consider her the greatest female singer of our lifetimes. But to call Richard just a lounge pianist is too ignorant to ignore. His compositions, arrangements, producing skills, and the uncanny ability to find the right songs for Karen to sing, helped make her a star. Many of the Carpenter's hits had been recorded by other artists but failed to chart until Richard rearranged them, multi tracked the vocals, and produced the "Carpenter sound". It wasn't just Karen's voice that made those songs hits. And as for working with a "good producer", she DID work with one of the best, Phil Ramone, yet her solo album never reached the heights of any of the albums she did with Richard. Are you that pissed off at Richard that you refuse to give him any credit for the Carpenter's success? As for doing "nothing" since, maybe losing his sister, music partner, and the greatest female vocalist ever was just too painful. He certainly didn't need the money or fame, so he chose to pursue his personal life instead.
Maury Povich? Richard single-mindedly cared most about the unmade music and making records. The last thing he noted was he loved her. Should've been the first
And it is normal to think about "what could have been" I do think about it all the time when I think about my young sweet husband, Ramon, in Heaven seven years next month - rip baby. Twma
genericnicole. Probably because he told her that near the end of her life.Karen confronted Richard in a Downey Shopping Mall carpark and demanded to know why he was telling people she was not well. He told her to her face, "because I,m your brother and because I love you". Karen died 10 days later.
How can you say you had nothing ealse to say to Karen she was your sister when someone dyed that you Love there is always something ealse you could of said to that person when I Lost my mom I was very close to my mother to this day she dyed 25 years ago I stell miss her it seams like Her family was a little bit cold I really don’t know about her Relationship With her father they always talk about her mom the Girl it’s usually closer to the dad I did not have a dad growing Up but My best friend was closer to her dad she did not get along with her mom at all so what I’m saying is her dad is never Mentioned any of the documentaries I watch the carpenters always just her mom it seams Like I don’t know she needed her family during her last days more then ever
What a selfish remark to make.. more records? How about happiness in her life? Karen was hugely gifted and irreplaceable musically, but Richard seems quite separated from emotions.. perhaps the emotions she needed but couldn’t find in her life..not judging him but when I saw them in college, he seemed so robotic and aloof.. she was warm and a bit shy.. until she started to sing!
Without Karen their is no carpenters Richard. You were great composer and made the music. But she was the angelic voice sent straight from heaven. Without her theirs no grammys no band. That error brought rock n roll to it's knees. And Motown and many great artists.. karen carpenter shined like the ANGEL she was/is.. truth
Love her ❣❣❣
Without Richard, there (not their) is no Carpenters too. Richard is a brilliant pianist, composer, and arranger. His arrangements, compositions, and song selections were just as important to their (not there) success as Karen's wonderful voice.
I agree. Karen was the sound of The Carpenters.
Karen was the voice. Richard was the sound. They couldn’t have complimented each other any better. Without either one of them, there were no Carpenters. It was “s” plural for a reason.
Every parent reading about karen carpenters tragic life should take notice. Being a good parent is the most important thing you'll ever do in your life. If you have children they need to know they are loved and have value as people. Karen desperately wanted her mother's approval and never got it. I think the consequences of Agnes not being able to show love her daughter was central to Karen's unhappiness and possibly one of the triggers that led to her anorexia nervosa and death. The formative experiences of childhood really do matter.
Totally agree...very well said...
Yes. Very well said. And heartbreaking.
The most beautiful voice ever! I love Karen Carpenter
I was always secretly in love with her, with that sweet, velvet, silk voice. I still enjoy her songs, still in love with her.
RIP, sweet Karen. I and others forget you not !
her mum a new paper that karen was tubby
every time I see something about karen carpenter I get teary cause she could have been helped a lot sooner. her brother claims they tried to help her. I think she could have been helped sooner. it's too bad she left this world too soon. I wish I'd been her friend I would have helped her see she wasn't well. some day we ll be with her. god bless her.
Just think of all the people Karen's death saved from that horrible disorder... RIP Karen, We know your're ok....
Markinpuff - I am one...even after flatlining, but I was in the hsp when it happened - one of the top in the country
Karen was a perfectionist. This characteristic made her an incredible artist, but also caused her to be very hard on herself, including the way "she should look." Richard would even tell her a recording was fine, but she wanted to redo it "better." It's not fair to blame Richard, who was bedeviled by Quaalude addition in mid/late 70's and in no great health himself.
Actually, Karen wasn't a perfectionist. I remember Karen saying to me about a therapist once saying that Karen was an over achiever and Karen said, "How can I be an over achiever when I really don't have any goals or objectives? Figure that one out."Honestly, the shrinks messed up BIG TIME with Karen. I talked with Karen herself and I can tell you that absolutely NOTHING I have ever heard from the shrinks has ever matched anything I knew about Karen personally. As Karen said, "Most of the time I have no idea who they are talking about. About all I hear is the word Karen and then a bunch of stuff comes out of their mouths that doesn't make any sense or sound like me at all." All you have to do is look around on the internet and Karen's statement still holds true today.Like this stuff...
Like Karen said, "It seemed like every time I said something to one of them, I got told that I was wrong and that I was lying. A prime example is that me and my brother Richard have never competed against each other. I told them that Richard and I are brother and sister so we compliment and not compete with one another. What were Richard and I going to compete over? Who could iron shirts the fastest? For some reason they couldn't answer me on that one."
And Karen said, "It seemed like a game with them that every time I said something they would try to tell me that I said the exact opposite of what I said. I would try to correct them and they would say that I wasn't listening. So then I said, Earth to therapist, if I wasn't listening then how did I know that what you said wasn't what I said?"And it just kept getting worst...Seriously, believe absolutely NOTHING that any shrink has ever said about Karen Carpenter. NOTHING! Your sanity will thank you for it. Seriously. Repeat after me, "If it doesn't seem to make sense then chances are someone is making stuff up that is not true."And Karen said, "I remember the one session where me and my family were there and they kept accusing us of being liars and that we were just trying to cover up for each other and hide from the truth, so I asked them what the truth was and we all just sat there silent for a little while and then we all just walked out on them and never went back. That's the truth."Another time Karen said to me, "They seem to just keep trying to dig up dirt on me for the tabloids. I don't have any dirt. I have nothing to hide. So they keep making stuff up."And the big ones...And then, "I don't know what the big deal is that my mother doesn't hug me makes the front page. My mother doesn't hug my brother either but you never hear that mentioned." And honestly, I saw Karen and her brother hug each other both times that Richard visited Karen at the school. Once in 1978 and once in 1979. I can only imagine what the tabloids would have done if they had got pictures of that. And honestly, they just hugged. Very heart felt hugs, but hugs none the less. In all honesty, Karen's and Richard's mother, Agnes, was not someone that hugged people. Agnes was never a mean person unless you did something wrong, she just wasn't a hugger. And Karen said, "I was there and they brought my mom in and told me and my mom to hug each other. It was very awkward because my mom was not a hugger and they never discussed this with me or my mom beforehand. So there they were trying to force me and my mom to hug each other. It was horrible. You don't force people to hug each other like that in front of total strangers. I don't know what they were thinking but I let them know what I was thinking and they didn't like it. Next thing I know it ends up in the papers with a lot of misleading information as usual. I am actually glad that me and my mother didn't hug because they probably would have accused us of being what was that word again?" And I said, "Lezzies, um, lesbians." And Karen was like, "Yeah, they would have probably put it all over the papers that me and my mom were lesbians. I'm so furious over this. How is trying to traumatize people helping them?" And I was like, "I'm going to duck now, but if you do turn lesbian can I watch?" And Karen gave me that evil look like I knew she would and said, "Not funny Adrian. Honestly, I like guy parts, not girl parts. I thought about it, and I could never be like that." And she smiled and then said, "Thanks, I just realized that how can I turn lesbian or whatever when I can't even bring myself to hug my own mother?" And I was like, "Yeah, you can't believe all that you read in the tabloids. But then again, some people will believe anything or else the tabloids wouldn't be selling. I mean honestly, your therapy sessions are supposed to be private. Like you said, this is bad, and you're right about that, I would be furious too." And she was like, "Richard's looking into it. There were definitely some breach of privacy issues broken. Thanks for being my sounding board. I've been so upset lately over this as you've probably noticed. Thanks for helping me feel better like always." And I was like, "My pleasure. It's always great seeing that awesome smile of yours. Thanks." And she was like, "Pardon me for asking, but have you ever thought about becoming a doctor when you get older? I think you would make a good doctor. You've always helped me out a lot." And I was like, "I've thought about it, Doctor Ace, but it's not like the old days when people became doctors to help people. Anymore, it's all about making money as you've been noticing and I'm not like that."
I am not sure if this is a continuation of the "hug me" incident or something else possibly. But I remember Karen telling me that her and her mother were at the mental clinic and Karen and her mother were together in a therapy session. After the psychiatrist or therapist had tried to accuse her family of not caring about Karen, Karen became so furious at them that she burst into tears and started yelling at them. As Karen said to me, "My family has always been there for me and trying to say that my family didn't care about me was the straw that broke the camel's back. If it wasn't for my family suggesting it, I never would have went there in the first place. But I was having problems and it seemed like they (psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists) only made my problems worst. I had the eating disorder and it had nothing to do with my family. No one else in my family had the problem of anorexia nervosa and so trying to blame my family just does not make any sense. But saying my family did not love or care about me was just an outright lie and I let them have it for saying that. I was furious and in tears because I was so mad at them." Karen dropped the F bomb on them right in front of her mother and Karen was waiting for her mother to backhand her but instead Karen's mother said to Karen something like "Enough Karen, we need to leave this place. This place isn't doing you any good or me either." And Karen and her mom walked out of the place and to the family car in the parking lot of the clinic. Karen then told me that her mother got Karen into the car and then gave Karen the keys to the car and told Karen that if a bunch of emergency vehicles showed up that Karen needed to leave with the car and get out of there and just go home. Karen's mother told Karen that now it was her turn to give them a piece of her mind after what had happened (which probably was the 'hug' session, but not 100% sure now, but close to 100%). Karen's mother then gave Karen a "I'm probably never going to see you again" hug and slammed the door to the car and proceeded to walk at least a half city block back into the clinic and Karen said that she had the windows rolled up in the car and could still hear every word her mother said to them after her mother went inside the building. Karen's mother came back out afterwards and got into the car and Karen and her mother left and went home. When Karen got the bill, she went into the clinic and the people there were holding the doors for her and apologizing and such. Karen went in and paid the bill and then left and never went back there again.
Adrian , how did you talk to karen when you look so young now ? what years did you talk to her? are you a therapist? how did you know her? how old are you? if you really knew her ,you and i can have a fantastic conversation concerning my major insights on karen. i would love to talk to you . peace to you . thanks
@@stevemacagne6080 that's part of why only certain people knew about Karen and me. I was 13 when Karen and I met and her and I were a lot alike so we became very close very fast. I'm 35 (oops, 40 before, bit 35) in my picture here and 55 now. I actually made a web page about us as Karen and I had a lot of things happen in short times. Try this www.theeaceman.com/karentime.html . Karen and I talked about a lot of stuff shared many wonderful memories together and I did the page as it is easier than trying to remember all the details and such.
did this all happen in the physical realm or the astral projection realm? she wasn't in new york in 78 and was busy with music. dude this looks like fiction. it cant be real, no offense meant to you though.
@@stevemacagne6080 thought 2. Karen and you? Really? Why? Well, Karen and I could see each other's thoughts... The web page and information on Karen was put together with the stuff that needed explaining first and then the information that explains later. Much like in real life some things happen and then you find out why later, but not always as in real life. But most of the stuff I wrote before the "Paul Williams visits" section was stuff that happened before Karen told me who she was. And the reason why Karen told me who she was was because we were very close very quickly (about a month and a half) and Karen was worried that if I knew she was Karen Carpenter that I might start thinking of her differently. I never did because it is impossible to replace someone that can literally see what you're thinking and you can see what they're thinking. It happened. That was why Karen and I became so close and stayed that way. I was only 13 at the time which was a mess. You find that someone special and they turn out to be jail bait so to speak. Well... And so the truth goes... Not a story... I couldn't honestly make this stuff up if I tried. I wrote it out as I remembered it. I wasn't looking to prove or disprove anything but just to try and remember and get the details of all this stuff as best as I could. Thanks. I hope I understand, but with all of your questions that you have, UA-cam just isn't big enough.
How on earth does anybody who has lost a loved one not feel ANY guilt?. You feel guilt for the last words you could of said, guilt for not being there , guilt for not helping more and so on. From my experience guilt is a big factor in grief you would have to be a pretty darn hard person not to feel any!. Karen a voice of an angel but a soul so troubled.
How do you know he doesn't feel guilt? He's not saying he was perfect to her, just that he did everything he could regarding the eating disorder. Anorexics are like drug addicts in that they have to want treatment themselves for it to work. Karen was still sneaking around abusing ipecac & vomiting after her therapy w/ Dr. Levenkron. Nobody had a clue, including the doctor. She left early against the doctor's warnings & continued her secretive behavior. In that sense, no. There's nothing anyone could've done about that.
Now, whether her family could've been more emotionally warm & less controlling in the first place, I'd say the definitely could have.
He clearly says in this interview that he doesn't feel guilty. I would not have commented otherwise. Watch the interview before commenting thanks!.
I think Richard has a lot of his mother in him and that to me explains everything you need to know about a lack of guilt on his part.
In interviews I have seen, I know that he is certainly not guilty about having told his sister that he loved her 10 days before she died.
He s a psycho!!!!
For those who has doubts about Richard; you must remember that Richard and Karen grew up in the 60s and 70s. People’s mind set was different back then. Women mostly revolved their existence around the men in their lives. I have seen many interviews from female celebrities talk about that era, women taking leading roles was ground breaking in 50s-70s. Neil Sedaka was a little fat in Even in the late 70s, a divorced woman was looked down 60s and 70s, but he was a hit then; but nobody called him any fat names. At the hight of The Carpenters’ success, yes Richard was very concerned about his success as a musician; and not his sister’s internal emotional battles. Karen’s death really did bring this sickness to public awareness. It was shortly after Karen’s death that movies and TV shows would have story lines about anorexia and bulimia. I find it weird that Richard didn’t do much work with other artists after Karen died because some other artists would have truly benefitted from Richard’s music arrangements, music. It appears he is mostly stuck in the years he and Karen were still success.
Richard was still in shock upto this moment (interview) he could not accept that Karen is gone.. he just could not accept it to himself and talking about her death seems so final for him .. people can say anything they want but we could have shown compassion for Him .. ultimately ..Karen is the reason why the carpenter was well known.. the angellic voice that no one can imitate to this day..
R.I.P. Karen , I still remember when she passed away I was a freshman in high school, gone to soon 😔
I loved Karen. There will never be another one like her. I just wish they would make an album of all her unreleased recordings on CD and LP. When they do. I want to get a copy of it please. Thank you.
Tony Perek please is not needed they already made an album of their unreleased songs in 1989 called Lovelines
she was a great voice if she lived she probably would have went on her own!! she really didn't need him, that's why he hated the solo album that was scrapped!! he feared that she would leave him.
Totally agree with you.
Absolutely. Just imagine the pressure Karen must've felt to keep the brand going. Solo albums, venturing into film, leaving to start a family or anything else was not acceptable. Her mom & brother had her locked in. While I'm sure they loved her, she was also their meal ticket.
@@MsNooneinparticular you are both so wrong. It was Richard who wrote the music who choreograph everything she basically did. Richard also produced their music. It was Richard that turn Karen into a star, and Karen knew that only too well. Karen has said it in many interviews and Richard was the true Talent behind their group. Richard made Karen a star! Do your homework before making such stupid comments!!
@@brkitdwn Absolutely! Richard was just as integral to the success of the Carpenters as Karen. Listen to Karen's solo album. While it's very good (because it's Karen Carpenter's voice), the songs and arrangements pale in comparison to the Carpenter's material because Richard was a brilliant arranger and composer, and knew how to get the most out of Karen's talent. Those other people just wanted to turn Karen into a disco star and cash in. Richard was just trying to protect Karen's image and the Carpenter brand. Nothing wrong with that.
The answer to why Karen committed a slow suicide is to be found in her earliest childhood. The experiences in childhood and adolescence serve to write the software of the brain, and Karen, by all accounts was dominated by her mother, and mocked by her peers over her chubbiness. The formative years are when a person is most vulnerable, and any wounds inflicted here are usually deep and irreversible, they last with us for a lifetime. Blaming individuals who made cruel remarks is valid though, and a lesson to us all to count to ten before we so blithely mock or dismiss those we quarrel with.
Sæwelō Ok. But she wasn't a suicide woman. She had very sick. But she loved the life, she wanted to cure her and she wanted to live.
Dysfunctional family dynamics play a huge role. Our parents are our biggest influence. But the pressures of the music business are notorious for bringing MANY (maybe even most) entertainers to their knees at some point. Some recover & some don't. The Carpenters did 118 shows in 5 months in 1975. That's when both of them started spiraling into their respective addictions. Then their popularity started waning a bit, which is hard for a lot of stars to take. Especially perfectionist, Type A people like KC & RC. Karen battled with her weight as a teen & was then called "chubby" & "cherubic" by critics, which sent her into an obsession with losing weight. What started as normal dieting spiraled into an addiction of sorts.
After the crazy touring in '75, Richard's drug addiction was the first in a series of stressful events for Karen. The shelving of her beloved solo album was the 2nd major blow, and Richard & Agnes both played a role in discouraging her from that venture. She spent $400,000 to make it & was supremely proud of it, and it wasn't released. Then she got into a horrid marriage with a man who had deceived her about his vasectomy & proceeded to drain her financially while verbally abusing her, calling her a "bag of bones".
But yes, the favoritism & controlling nature of her mom (and sometimes brother) definitely played a role. As with all mental illnesses, the cause can't be narrowed down to a single event or person though.
@@MsNooneinparticular You`re so right, it wasn`t an experience but lots of them
I agree early childhood experiences last forever, and be damned if you can EVER get rid of the feelings. I am 72 Karen's age today if she had lived, the hurt is still with me.
After watching the documentary Karen didn’t get the support from her family especially her parents! The parents seamed to favor Richard over Karen! Karen was starving for attention and love from her parents! Then the disappointment of Karen not being able to release her own album that she recorded 😢
Yes Richard you both were special musically but above all SHE WAS YOUR SISTER !!! It's NOT just about losing your music career.
One of the greatest American Musical arrangers
This poor man did the best he could with dysfunctional parents. He was an old soul but he would had to have been an exceptionally elevated young man to have the ability to examine it all objectively and know exactly how to save his kid sister with anorexia. That’s a heavy burden to place on anyone. My uncle and my mom had the same age difference and were as close as siblings could be, but if my mom had had anorexia I know my uncle would have been utterly clueless as to what to do, other than say, I love you, I’m concerned, you have to eat.
Oh Richard news flash! You don't help somebody by "picking on them"! And how can you say that your family "doesn't feel any guilt towards your sister's death"?!
Maybe, maybe not...I tend to give him the benefit of the doubt and he loved his sister first and foremost.. I am sure it was very painful talking about her death, which seems very apparent to me... For some, it's hard to talk about their deepest emotions, especially of a loved one who has passed. Of course, he would naturally grieve the loss of the music they could have made had she not died... That in my opinion is natural and not necessarily a selfish thing. God bless Richard and his family..
It was very painful for him. I could read it in his face and see it in his watery eyes.
melrose795,Liza Velez. You may be interested in searching this clip:"The Passing Of Karen Carpenter,Australian News Reports" and watching the last clip, which is Richards appearance on "Good Morning Australia" in 1983.(The interviewer is Gordon Elliot, the same guy doing the voiceover here) Richard is probably the most sad of any interview here on UA-cam. This was a live to air interview I watched when broadcast, which left a sympathetic impression on me that hasn,t shifted for 36 years.
Screw Richard
i really do believe that richard loved his sister and misses her deeply. it's clear from this video. i've read a lot of the comments on youtube suggesting that he didn't care about her, but i don't believe them. it's possible that sometimes he acted selfishly and without regard for karen's happiness because of his own agenda. but sometimes my father treats me in ways that make me feel that he doesn't care about my happiness, but i know that he loves and cares about me.
Finally, Someone that has a brain! These assholes commenting act like they lived with the family! A bunch of derelicts!!! (Kimmy Hawk)
I saw the Carpenters in Rochester, NY. The year was 1973. I wondered why she stayed behind thr drums fot most of the concert. Richard did all the talking..It was as if she had her own reasons for staying behind the scenes. Go figure.
It was the drugs she was taking to vomit that damaged her heart. Had Karen knew this, I believed she would have stopped taking that harmful over the counter drug. She was cured of anorexia and gaining weight but her heart was already damaged. Sad tragedy.
Correct. In a way, I partially blame government regulators for this. Syrup of Ipecac is a drug that should never have been displayed on shelves in the customer areas of a pharmacy. It should have been dispensed only by a pharmacist, who would have explained the dangers to a purchaser. Ipecac, itself, is a poison -- that is why it makes you vomit. It is meant to be taken "one-time only" -- to cause you to throw up a WORSE poison that you took accidentally, or whatever. It should be a long time before another dose of Ipecac is taken, because Ipecac causes damage to the heart muscle (and perhaps nerves also, not certain) each time you take it.
I can't really blame Karen for not knowing this -- in the hectic life the Carpenters lived, she probably didn't have much time to read and study bottle labels. I figure Karen probably assumed if it was on the shelf in the public area of a drugstore, it was probably safe to use. I'm sure she would not have taken it, if she had realized how dangerous repeated dosing with Syrup of Ipecac was. I believe production/sale of Ipecac has been discontinued, due to being relatively ineffective for it's intended uses, and dangerous if misused.
We were lucky and blessed to Karen Carpenter here with us, even if it was just for a short time. I wish it could have been longer. She was truly a light of love in this dark world. I surely do miss her. Still listen to her singing and watch her videos quite often. She has a way of cheering me up when nothing else will. Hope to see her again when I, too, "cross-over".
Anorexia and the laxatives messed up her heart, no doubt. Yet what really did her in was the procedure - "Hyperalimentation," where the doctors fed her through IV to put alot of weight on her very fast. Now, rapid weight loss or gain is an extremely dangerous thing to do. So everything she went through just weakened her heart even more until it had finally had enough and sadly stopped
IMHO the weight gain didn't do it. People have starved through the ages and recovered that were a heck in worst shape than Karen.
It's hard to understand, but Karen's problems were not just weight loss. (Even though at her lowest she was under 80 lbs.) The chemicals (ipecac) she took not only reduced calories that caused organ wasting, but dehydrated and physically damaged heart muscle and likely kidneys. It's not just severe weight loss.
John X What fucking ass of a doctor prescribed thyroid pills ? She didn't have a thyroid problem!
@janxjanxjanx Impossible for him not to know, as you said. Funny, what he'll miss the most is making records and such. How about just missing his sister? If not for her, nobody would know or heard of him. She was the music. She also seemed to be so, so sincere a person. What a terrible loss.
just joan and she wasn't only voice and drum...she had a super natural talent. She was THE SUPERSTAR!
just joan I
he was a huge part of the group. wrote, arranged, produced, sang good bkrnd.
not to mention extrordinary keyboard skills.
Richard is a decent person
I wish Richard would invent new music with new youth. I think the world would like a new sound as theres a comeback of sort.
it was your mother who didn't say LOVE YOU!!!!!!
Maybe if Karen"s mother told her she loved Karen it would of been different!
Karens mother didnt give a crap about her she was evil
Not a nice mother
Karens Family was not good for her....this is my meaning!
You got that right. Her family wasn't good for her.
I agree.
Karen visited Nazi concentration camps which her Jewish bosses wanted her and the crew to see. The plight of the wasting away Jews could have somehow attached itself to her, and been internalized within her. I wonder if she may also have seen the 1928 film, The Passion of Joan of Arc. Karen's life and death mimic the Maid of Lorraine/Orleans in many ways, but not in all ways of course. It has been said that, "Karen Carpenter is the preeminent martyr of easy listening. The Joan of Arc of soft rock." "I AM the drum upon which God is beating out his message." -- Joan of Arc. The tragic early passing of both Joan of Arc and Karen Carpenter had profound effects on those close to them, and on those many people not close to them, but who loved them dearly. Joan and Karen are greatly missed by the world. Nice that we still have Richard with us.
....".my parents loved her...." i know but they do nothing for her....
They may have loved her indeed but what good did it do if they were incapable of showing that love to Karen in a meaningful way ?
His mother was normal to him and everyone loves their mother, no matter how flawed. Other People can see on the videos how flawed the mother was.
Grande Cantora......TOP.....
This was recorded 31 years ago.
Why doesn't he went to NY with Karen??? He was her loved brother, her best friend, her confident. But he stayed in LA...She needded his entire support!!!
Because he did not care enough and never took her seriously.
I can't believe you assholes commenting on ppl like that, like you fucking lived with them! You don't know shit! STFU!!!!! (Kimmy Hawk)
Because he had a life too!
it is her anniversary today 1983 x x x x x
39 years ago where does the time go? Karen Carpenter was 1 of a kind
If Richard had truly really loved his sister he would have encouraged and helped her, if asked, in making her solo album. When Karen was in New York see Dr. Levenkron, who saved my daughter's life, Richard should been with her, talking with Levenkron and doing everything possible to save Karen. Shame on you Richard.
Are you Freakin Kidding me. Richard Loved his sister, and fyi You cannot stop a person from their Mind Set. Karen had a mind of her own, and you can't blame Richard for what happened to Karen. If you want to put the blame on anyone or anything blame the proprietors for putting Laxatives on the shelves in pharmacies which is an easy way to get young girls to lose weight, and make them have heart problems as well.
None of the family supported her journey into therapy. In the time she was in New York, they only saw her once. She was on her own emotionally, which is why she probably had fallen into anorexia in the first place...Richard will never see this unfortunately. It's easier to blame Dr. Levenkron.
Wasn't Richard also having problems with Quaalude addiction at that time??? He was hardly in any position to help his sister.
Karen went into Levenkron's clinic in January 1982 and then Karen had to be hospitalized in September 1982 weighing 84 or 86 pounds. It was supposed to be a private meeting with Levenkron, Karen and her family so what was Itchie Ramone doing there? Levenkron was not an honest person about the dealings with Karen and the family. If the clinic did actually help your daughter then excellent. Some bad things went on that Karen personally told me about which is why I know better than to trust Levenkron about anything to do with his treating Karen. Karen was 86 pounds at most and went to Lennox Hill in September 1982 then November 1982 Karen weighed 104 after leaving Lennox Hill. Karen then stayed at her parents afterwards and weighed 108 pounds when she passed away February 1983. Karen told me that her and her mom had come up with an idea where Karen only weighed herself once a week and Karen's weight had appeared to be steady from November 1982 to February 1983 at over 100 pounds for those three and a half to four months at her parents.
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Ridiculous to keep pounding Richard over his sister’s death. He would have done anything to keep her alive.
he would have done anything to make sure she never ventured too far from his control either. His obsession with keeping his cash cow who was destined for greatness WITHOUT him contributed greatly to her condition. Her GMA interview in 1981 was a disgrace. Karen looked near death and should have been in a hospital, not doing tv spots. Her well-being was completely inconsequential to them.
Honestly Thomas B, did you ever talk to Karen about what you just posted? From September 1978 to June 1979 in all honesty, Karen lived with her cousin Wendy in New York State and I only saw Richard around twice in the area during that time. What control? I personally knew Karen and that's why I know better than to believe that junk written in the tabloids and such. Karen and Richard were always each other's best friends. Karen always loved her family and Karen knew her family always loved her. The tabloids have never been anyone's friends in all honesty and more honestly the tabloids don't know what love is or else they wouldn't print the garbage that they print. Richard didn't force Karen to appear on the GMA. Karen was a tomboy. Honestly, think about that.
@@adriandowningiii8395
You are blessed sir.
You are speaking with a very hurt (still) population that truly love her. She connects to soul. This is much more than a voice. So much more. She was an ANGEL sent straight from heaven. Lots of Monday morning quarterbacks now. Fact is you cannot save yourself from yourself. We can point fingers all we want. Could she of been saved?? Absolutely she could of been. Not necessarily by her family or friends. She had to maintain her own control and showing weakness to friends and family is not easy. Especially for her.
The shame is that that person was never given the opportunity to save her. That person never came into her life. We mustn't question God's plan. Just try to understand them. We still mourne her. The soul her. Not the fame her. She was alot more spiritual than she knew. And her spirit now is very mellow,kind and loving. She is healthy, happy and safe now. And if you connect with spirit she is still very much alive.
God bless you sir.
@@backtheblue280 I saw the final report on the autopsy for Karen. No one knew she was diabetic and her level was over 1100 which is deadly. Can not really blame that on anyone including Karen as Karen didn't have sweets too often. Even today, no one seems to know. And best to try and learn as blaming never solves anything and even worst when someone falsely accuses. Best wishes Timothy. Karen, as well as the rest of us, are where we are meant to be. Thank you. Karen was Methodist and always believed in getting three signs for the father, son, and Holy Ghost. And as we are created in His image, He has a great sense of humor too so try not to take things too seriously.
@@adriandowningiii8395meu amigo,você parece ser uma pessoa paga pra defender a família de Karen,algo não está certo aqui....
Você diz ser tão amigo dela,mas toma partido do lado da família dela o tempo todo....muito estranho?
Até os amigos íntimos dela, como Olivia newton John afirmaram que Richard era ciumento e controlador fora do normal com sua própria irmã,parece que todo mundo sabia isso,menos você né ?
Você é só um perseguidor,que está posicionado do lado errado pelo visto!
You can see Richard is having a difficult time talking about karen.This had to be very emotional for him.I think he could have done more to help her but you can't help feel bad for him.
Her brother sat with her on good morning America in 1981...look it up..
How in the hell would he sit there with her looking horrible and skeletal? It was disturbing.
Also he and his mother would not allow Karen to release a solo record because it was risqué and would ruin the carpenter's goody goody side...her mom was an ass hole who loved the son, but couldn't handle or allow her daughter to grow...I cannot stand this man... find him icy and remorseless and insincere....I adore Karen. .that solo album was soooo good..I'm a bass player and I was impressed...400k in 78 to make it....they paid it and in 96 released it finally...Karen was the star...brother was a pos jerk...when she died so did his career...serves him right...
Or, maybe Karen just lacked the character to overcome her issues. It's easy to blame others for your own shortcomings.
In all seriousness @sprintbass, Karen and Richard were very close. In all honesty, anyone that did not like Karen's brother, Richard, would not last long around Karen. Karen, herself, never said she wished to leave Richard. Phil Ramone tried to say that Karen wanted to leave Richard and it was never true. Karen honestly only did her solo album because Richard wanted her to do it. Karen dedicated her solo album to her brother Richard, seriously. I was around Karen from September 1978 to June 1979 which is how I know. Rod Temperton, Karen, and I were the only three that knew the stories behind the songs "Rock With You" and "Off The Wall" which were originally for Karen's solo album but then got siphoned off to Michael Jackson. You may adore Karen, but unfortunately with what you said about Karen's mom and her brother, she would not wish to be around you in all honesty. Oops, and actually 500K as there was the original 400K plus an extra 100K taken from future Carpenter royalties. Oops, and on Christmas Eve 2019, I forgot that Karen had told a few people some things about leaving Richard and such, but it is a long story. I was 18 and Karen and I were going to elope and so... Long story... Karen was honestly not going to be leaving Richard, but...
Bloody brother his selfishness not only ruined her brilliant career but also destroyed the life of an angel!!!! This coward should be in prison for abuse and neglect!!!!!!
You are nuts. You know nothing about these people. You were not part of their lives. You know nothing and shouldn't be commenting about him or her. Comment on your own life and family not someone you are not part of or have no knowledge of whatsoever.
Thank you so much @@brkitdwn so true and much appreciated.
SHE was special. Without her, Richard would be nowhere. He knew it. Their mother? Very controlling and always reminding Karen that it was he who was her favorite. So sad. And makes me angry. Instead of telling her no, you're going to get help, the music can wait, they let her continue with it.
Karen Carpenter shouldn’t have been a perfectionist.
Karen was an INFJ Type A personality (MBI - Myers Briggs Whatever). Richard was the same type as am I the same type too. Perfection isn't all it is cracked up to be. People see something to be perfect, but what happens when things get better and perfect isn't good enough anymore? The real world of the INFJ in a nutshell.
It's family reasons...not thin is in
It just kills me
I know you loved ue sister but I think your mother should of been there in a positive way!
yes he misses his sister , making records with her was probably fun and thrilling, and don't think they didn't have meaningful discussions during all this time recording.
Also, it might be hard for a man to understand why women like to diet so much. It's something many men do not think of, like women do.
Karen's dieting went beyond just losing weight. . It took away her life at a young age.. She was too young to die at 32!
well...wat a brother!!!!!.glad Hes not mine....!!!! HeS as guilty as hell...!!
Guilty of what exactly? Do you take responsibility for your brother or your sister?
richer Carpenter
He didn't need her death to be richer. He would have been even richer (and happier) if she were alive.
Oh boy, um... Where to start? Thank you Sammy Bear. Well said. Did anyone posting on here actually know Karen or Richard or their family? It doesn't sound it from what I see posted here. In all honesty Karen loved her family very much and Karen knew her family loved her very much too. I can see from what the rest have written here that most of you have never met or known Karen and it shows in the horrible and terrible things that many have posted here.
I created a web page for those interested in what Karen and I talked about plus events that happened between us from September 1978 to June 1979, and then mid June (12, 15 to 18) 1981 plus her phone call to me on February 3, 1983 here www.theeaceman.com/karentime.html .
What has Richard accomplished since Karen died? Nothing. Karen did not receive what she needed from her family. She was the superstar. Richard was no more than a lounge pianist without Karen.
Wow! If you think Richard was only a lounge pianist, you do need some seeds of hope!
@@nealbraatz3911 sounded like a bratty comment...lol. What did Richard do after the voice of Karen died? NOTHING. He would have done nothing without her. He was just another pianist like the hundreds you find everyday in ten cent bars.
@@seedsofhopeonline Karen and Richard Carpenter. During their career, the DUO scored 5 Top 10 albums on Billboard 200, 3 number ones singles, 12 top 10 singles and 20 top 40 hits on Billboard Hot 100. Karen's solo album: not a Top 10 album, 0 number one singles, 0 top 10 singles, 0 top 40 hits on Billboard Hot 100. What's the one difference? The "lounge pianist". Also, after Karen died, Richard got married and raised 5 children, something Karen desperately wanted for herself. She definitely wouldn't have called that doing NOTHING.
@@nealbraatz3911 you and I differ. I thought we were talking professionally about Richard’s career. Karen was nearly dead when she recorded the solo album. Her family, especially Richard, fueled Karen’s disorder. Richard was nothing without Karen and he knew it. After Karen’s death Richard’s career was over. I don’t doubt Richard had some kind of love for Karen but it seems his own distorted ego ...that was formed by their mother, fueled Karen’s eating disorder and led to this great loss. With a good producer Karen would have been a superstar anyway. Without Karen...Richard was a lounge pianist.
@@seedsofhopeonline We don't differ in our opinions of Karen. She was brilliant and probably would have had a successful career on her own. I consider her the greatest female singer of our lifetimes. But to call Richard just a lounge pianist is too ignorant to ignore. His compositions, arrangements, producing skills, and the uncanny ability to find the right songs for Karen to sing, helped make her a star. Many of the Carpenter's hits had been recorded by other artists but failed to chart until Richard rearranged them, multi tracked the vocals, and produced the "Carpenter sound". It wasn't just Karen's voice that made those songs hits. And as for working with a "good producer", she DID work with one of the best, Phil Ramone, yet her solo album never reached the heights of any of the albums she did with Richard. Are you that pissed off at Richard that you refuse to give him any credit for the Carpenter's success? As for doing "nothing" since, maybe losing his sister, music partner, and the greatest female vocalist ever was just too painful. He certainly didn't need the money or fame, so he chose to pursue his personal life instead.
拍拍手
don't lie
Maury Povich? Richard single-mindedly cared most about the unmade music and making records. The last thing he noted was he loved her. Should've been the first
It must have been very hard for him to even hear his sister's voice let alone talk about her and her young life cut short.
And it is normal to think about "what could have been" I do think about it all the time when I think about my young sweet husband, Ramon, in Heaven seven years next month - rip baby. Twma
genericnicole. Probably because he told her that near the end of her life.Karen confronted Richard in a Downey Shopping Mall carpark and demanded to know why he was telling people she was not well. He told her to her face, "because I,m your brother and because I love you". Karen died 10 days later.
See
He gets sort of upset when asked" why
How can you say you had nothing ealse to say to Karen she was your sister when someone dyed that you Love there is always something ealse you could of said to that person when I Lost my mom I was very close to my mother to this day she dyed 25 years ago I stell miss her it seams like Her family was a little bit cold I really don’t know about her Relationship With her father they always talk about her mom the Girl it’s usually closer to the dad I did not have a dad growing Up but My best friend was closer to her dad she did not get along with her mom at all so what I’m saying is her dad is never Mentioned any of the documentaries I watch the carpenters always just her mom it seams Like I don’t know she needed her family during her last days more then ever
What a selfish remark to make.. more records? How about happiness in her life? Karen was hugely gifted and irreplaceable musically, but Richard seems quite separated from emotions.. perhaps the emotions she needed but couldn’t find in her life..not judging him but when I saw them in college, he seemed so robotic and aloof.. she was warm and a bit shy.. until she started to sing!