I struggled for decades with these types of problems and compounded them with some of the quad shows we did . Taking the immersive sound live years ago was a challenge . Some of these shows worked out great , others not so much . Now retired I sit in my barn listening to Atmos 5.1.4 and again all mixes are not created equal . Thank you for all your work and information .
Great to have some live sound engineering discussion on your channel. Live is such a complicated environment and too often the learning opportunities are during high-stakes -- live shows. Much appreciated.
I love Lacoustics, always the best system to mix on, but it certainly is convenient that a speaker manufacturers answer to improving coverage over a typical L/R system is..... wait for it: Too buy a lot more speakers, 18 Kara configured L/R to cover a venue becomes 45 over 5 hangs. Also what is less clear is how you would maintain the L -isa coverage with a front fill.
The basic problem here is the premise, yes there will be comb filtering as you move through the venue, but that’s not what the audience is doing. The audience is sitting in a seat. A fixed position. What really matters is that every seat has direct audio. Iv done shows with thousands of speakers 🔊 under every seat in the venue. If you walk around you would hear comb filtering but sitting in your seat, the direct audio delivers clarity without energizing every molecule in the room. 😉
could you please share which venue has this system (or maybe the name of the system itself)? I would really like to know more about it. I doubt that here in south america we have something like that
Thousands of speakers? Wow! Ive thought about adding a dozen delay speakers to our church to help with speech intelligibly in a highly reverberant room. But thousands?!? What kind of amps and wiring would that require?
Really interesting! Quite incredible how clear if becomes with the comb filtering problem when using the pink noise (seems like the room was also quite good, and not introducing disturbing reflections) - there are even some minor changes in sound as you walk around (reflections against your bodies - even though, that was still very small compare to the speaker issue it self). But, that typical behaviour as you walked past the middle with the microphones is really caracteristic on music as well and I have heard it so many times on different live performances, trying to find the best sound in the middle. This is also an issue when making good live recordings in stereo (which I have done) The optimum line in the middle is so narrow, that just the smallest movements with the microphones will cause the sound to get skewed (even movements so small they are barely noticable on the video - if filming along with the sound recording). The worst case is when accidently moving back and forth over the optimum line, so the sound "wobble" from side to side. With an audience around that moves and a some music that makes you want to move along with it, it's hard to keep the microphones steady in the middle, haha. That software seem really smart.
Ok, so you can compound tricks and mostly solve the high-end. But what about the bottom end? e.g. for 30Hz one cycle is 33ms, to decorrelate it you have to move one signal by significant amount, and since the frequency is so low the comb also each affects more neighboring frequencies as well. For smaller setups e.g. a home, one sub speaker is an amazing solution, but I've no idea how you'd fix it in a multi-speaker setup Nice demo btw!
Since we can determine the angle of coverage of each array of speakers, why can't we just hang them at the center of the stage and hang other arrays next to each other in a curve configuration depending on the speaker's effective coverage to create a balance sound field, eliminating the phase issues. Would that make sense?😆😂. I am no expert, I don't even know what I'm talking about😂. Very informative video anyways.
6:10 (opposite of power alley) “we’ve got the power valley.”
This is such a good explanation!
I struggled for decades with these types of problems and compounded them with some of the quad shows we did . Taking the immersive sound live years ago was a challenge . Some of these shows worked out great , others not so much . Now retired I sit in my barn listening to Atmos 5.1.4 and again all mixes are not created equal . Thank you for all your work and information .
Man I want quad and wanna record Hard Rock original rock music in quad..we have surround sound in every living room what's the holdup,????
Great to have some live sound engineering discussion on your channel. Live is such a complicated environment and too often the learning opportunities are during high-stakes -- live shows. Much appreciated.
I saw the title and i thought unless you're gonna get Dave rat you're never gonna be able to
And then the video started 😂
Ran house of worship sound for many years (not real big houses!) and always new of this problem but never heard of these solutions!! Thanks so much!
L-ISA looks/sounds pretty cool, I'll be interesting in seeing more.
This is crazy, I used to be a developer for this software! Didn't expect to see it here
How on earth does this work software wise?
Lovely! I love to watch engineering-level videos. Great one with decent information!
Was like what's your favourite band ? Well pink noise😅❤
I love Lacoustics, always the best system to mix on, but it certainly is convenient that a speaker manufacturers answer to improving coverage over a typical L/R system is..... wait for it: Too buy a lot more speakers, 18 Kara configured L/R to cover a venue becomes 45 over 5 hangs.
Also what is less clear is how you would maintain the L -isa coverage with a front fill.
Thank you for piece and seeing you and Dave Rat together made my day
TY got me thinking about double mics and stereo panning. Can’t wait to experiment.
Very informative presentation.
Nooo, it's a reupload! I thought I was gonna get two videos in a single day from you! >:D
The basic problem here is the premise, yes there will be comb filtering as you move through the venue, but that’s not what the audience is doing.
The audience is sitting in a seat.
A fixed position.
What really matters is that every seat has direct audio. Iv done shows with thousands of speakers 🔊 under every seat in the venue. If you walk around you would hear comb filtering but sitting in your seat, the direct audio delivers clarity without energizing every molecule in the room. 😉
could you please share which venue has this system (or maybe the name of the system itself)? I would really like to know more about it. I doubt that here in south america we have something like that
Imagine going to a club and you have to sit
@@jensnln to be honest, that sounds more like a theater
Thousands of speakers? Wow! Ive thought about adding a dozen delay speakers to our church to help with speech intelligibly in a highly reverberant room. But thousands?!? What kind of amps and wiring would that require?
Amazing video! Thanks a lot, guys.
Really interesting!
Quite incredible how clear if becomes with the comb filtering problem when using the pink noise (seems like the room was also quite good, and not introducing disturbing reflections)
- there are even some minor changes in sound as you walk around (reflections against your bodies - even though, that was still very small compare to the speaker issue it self).
But, that typical behaviour as you walked past the middle with the microphones is really caracteristic on music as well and I have heard it so many times on different live performances, trying to find the best sound in the middle. This is also an issue when making good live recordings in stereo (which I have done)
The optimum line in the middle is so narrow, that just the smallest movements with the microphones will cause the sound to get skewed (even movements so small they are barely noticable on the video - if filming along with the sound recording). The worst case is when accidently moving back and forth over the optimum line, so the sound "wobble" from side to side. With an audience around that moves and a some music that makes you want to move along with it, it's hard to keep the microphones steady in the middle, haha. That software seem really smart.
Whats the song playing in the outro? Its pretty awesome and I was wondering about a full version?
Ok, so you can compound tricks and mostly solve the high-end. But what about the bottom end?
e.g. for 30Hz one cycle is 33ms, to decorrelate it you have to move one signal by significant amount, and since the frequency is so low the comb also each affects more neighboring frequencies as well.
For smaller setups e.g. a home, one sub speaker is an amazing solution, but I've no idea how you'd fix it in a multi-speaker setup
Nice demo btw!
Well we often called nodes and anti nodes ! 😅 In fact is not quite about frecventy is about how those energy fight each other in air!
Since we can determine the angle of coverage of each array of speakers, why can't we just hang them at the center of the stage and hang other arrays next to each other in a curve configuration depending on the speaker's effective coverage to create a balance sound field, eliminating the phase issues. Would that make sense?😆😂. I am no expert, I don't even know what I'm talking about😂. Very informative video anyways.
Jarring
All of its digitally focused
someone help with the song in the outro 13 min ?
Do you know the song in the end of the video?
Turn This Night by Z3U5
@@Andreas-ov2fv the song is beautiful, but it is not the same in the 13 min
Last try people, can someone help mi with the song in the end of the video? min 13