Mass Effect - What Happens If The Council Dies?
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2021
- In this video I'll show you what happens if you don't save the Council at the end of Mass Effect, including the consequences of letting the Council die.
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During Sovereign’s attack on The Citadel, The Council is evacuated aboard the Destiny Ascension. Unfortunately their escape attempt is thwarted as they are pursued and fired upon by Geth ships. Without additional support to counterattack the Geth, it looks certain that the Council will die.
Joker contacts Shepard and lets him know that the Normandy and the Alliance Arcturus Fleet can respond to the distress call and save the Destiny Ascension… if Shepard orders him to do so.
If we let the Council die, the Destiny Ascension is destroyed by Geth ships and the Council does not survive… After the battle with Saren and Sovereign is concluded, Ambassador Udina will meet with Shepard and Anderson to discuss the future of The Council.
This scene will be different depending on Shepard’s morality - paragon or renegade. In the renegade version, Udina recommends replacing The Council with an all-Human government to direct politics on The Citadel.
In the paragon version, Udina recommends selecting a human as Chairman of the new Council, but doesn’t explicitly suggest an all-Human governing body.
In Mass Effect 2, Udina will be furious with Anderson for inviting Shepard to The Citadel and attempting to set up a meeting with The Council. In any case, the new Council will refuse to meet with Shepard. This happens regardless of whether or not the new Council is composed entirely of humans or includes the other races as well.
Even if the Council is fully human, it’s still business as usual. The Council denies the existence of the Reapers and does nothing to investigate mass kidnappings on human colonies throughout The Traverse, causing people like Jacob to step away from The Alliance.
By the time Mass Effect 3 begins, The Council is made up of four members - Human, Asari, Turian and Salarian. Udina will be the human Councilor, even if Anderson served in that post in Mass Effect 2.
If there was an all-human Council in Mass Effect 2, it will be replaced by a multi-racial one in the third game. Presumably the other races no longer tolerated being kept off The Council and applied political pressure until new members were appointed. At this point, the concept of an all-human Council is basically canonically dimmed by the writers at Bioware. We never meet the human councilors or learn their names, at least from anything I’ve discovered. I wonder how many players carried this outcome through an entire playthrough… I imagine not too many.
The decision Shepard made regarding The Council in Mass Effect 1 comes up in conversation from time to time, but otherwise doesn’t make any major impact on the core story of the game.
The only real gameplay impact comes in the form of war assets, but even then the differences are negligible. If you let the Council die you lose the Destiny Ascension, but the Alliance Fleets (First, Third and Fifth) are all stronger and Admiral Mikhailovich is still alive as well. So letting the Council die nets you an extra 30 war assets… again not a huge difference either way. - Ігри
Wait, you guys saved the council?
To be honest I did on accident. I wanted to let them die cause they kept coming to Seren's defense like a turian can't do wrong.
Hey I often make them worried in ME1, but for better future I let them live for the future
Humanity first!
I thought it was tactically a better decision to focus on Sovereign and leave the Council, hoping that maybe some of them could escape and survive. I figured I needed that a strike force remain fresh and in reserve, at the ready for an all out strike on Sovereign, since you'll only get one shot at it. I wish the lines for Shepard explaining the call were different, like the Alliance fleet could inform the Council why they were holding back.
(Delivering the bad news instead of the 'I'm not risking human lives, let's ghost them and not pick up the radio' thing) Alliance (to the council ships) : The risk is too great, if we want the best odds at winning this we're going to need fresh forces in reserve ready to deal the killing blow the second we've got the chance. Hang in there, if you can hold out until we take care of Sovereign, we will come back for you.
The Turians would respond: Agreed, Sovereign is the Primary objective. We'll keep the Geth busy as long as we can. Duty comes first.
Salarians: I was about to recommend the same, by my rough estimate, keeping a fresh reserve would increase odds of success against Sovereign by 22.4 percent. A sizable margin. The patient hunter waits for a clean shot...good luck. Today, we hold the line...
Asari: What!? You're just going to leave me, just like that? Are you breaking up with me!? You can't do that, no, screw that, I'm breaking up with you! You were a loser before you met me, you need me...where are going, come back, you can't leave me like this...What!? You're holding out for Sovereign!? You think Sovereign's shields will drop any second now? No, no, no, that's not happening. Sovereign is way out of your league. I'm the priority here, now, get your butt over here and pick me up, we're not doing this over the phone. Okay, say you love me. Ciao.
I let them die the first time lol. I was like “I don’t want my guys to die and they were assholes the whole fucking time.
The new council: " U didn't saved the previous council, so we won't help u "
The old council: " Thank u saving us, but we won't help u "
Still I would save them. Better be on the right side of the story. Like super paragon
Well u can save the galaxy by being super renegade, with all the possible dead crewmates.
@@balabannicolai1293 but u wouldn't save the crewmates
@@BT-ob7ve well there are some subjects that I prefer them dead, like Ashley, Vegas, Jack, Samara and others;)
As incompetent as either council is, I'm sure they at least know how to spell "you" and not look like a try-hard internet kiddie.
Asari commander: “we need help or we’re going to die!”
Joker: “I missed the part where that’s my problem”
*Sovereign attaches to the Citadel Tower* “How’d that get in there?”
@PennyArcade AIC fan I see
"You're trash, council members."
Gonna cry, Sparatus(Turian Councilor)? 😂
I didn’t save the Council, I saved the big freaking gun they were riding on.
The council was just collateral rescues xD
@@CordyBrush a real moment of
Hackett: We’ve saved the Destiny Ascension!
Shepard: Yes! That’ll come in handy later.
Hackett: And the council too.
Shepard: Aaaand there’s the fly in my three hundred dollar soup.
Moment.
@@23DrakeDOTN23 😂
I also saved the Destiny Ascension. The council’s survival was just happenstance.
The "one big gun" is no match for the many many many medium sized guns
“They closed the channel”
The biggest middle finger of the galaxy
They shoulda expected that given how often Shepard told Joker to cut the line beforehand.
Well I'm ready to give them that middle finger in 4k
nah constantly hanging up on them when Mr pushy starts giving his 2 pence worth was enough middle finger for me
besides, saving them puts them in my debt. nothing better than making someone you dislike owe you
"Whoops!"
Did you call me just to hang up again? You know it 😂😂😂
>Let the council die
>Choose an all human council
>The Illusive Man becomes Chancellor
>The Illusive Man becomes the Senate
>mfw I learn he's a Sith
A Sith LORD?
@@Labyethan a sith lawd?
Did you ever hear the tragedy of Darth Plagueis The Wise? I thought not. It’s not a story the Jedi would tell you. It’s a Sith legend. Darth Plagueis was a Dark Lord of the Sith, so powerful and so wise he could use the Force to influence the midichlorians to create life… He had such a knowledge of the dark side that he could even keep the ones he cared about from dying. The dark side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural. He became so powerful… the only thing he was afraid of was losing his power, which eventually, of course, he did. Unfortunately, he taught his apprentice everything he knew, then his apprentice killed him in his sleep. Ironic. He could save others from death, but not himself."
This would be the best scenario for Humanity it seems
Makes sense
Their replaced by virtually identical lineup of politicians, which admittedly actually fits pretty well with what one would expect.
I mean, Quentius doesn't yell at you for nothing and Esheel >>> Valern
That’s how the real world works too.
@@federicoricca2512 Quentius is the only councilor that I like, he takes your claims about the reapers a bit more seriously.
Only makes me think they’re democratically elected
They’re *
I like the idea of Joker closing the comms channel.
It's one last time that he gets to hang up on the council!
Ah yes the ''Council''.
Ah, we have dismissed that claim
We have killed those dains
Turian Councilor: Shepard we need help our lives are in danger!
Shepard: Ah yes, the council. A bunch of worthless politicians who denied the existence of reapers and are about to die due to their own arrogance. Your lives are in danger? The crew of the Normandy have dismissed this claim.
Turian Councilor: Wait... Did you just hold a Gru-
- Hangs up -
Joker: Classic.
Dam I wished we could have said that
I see that DBZA reference. Neat.
Ah a man of culture I see.
ROFLMAO... couldn't have said it better myself. - Perhaps this is something you might like... ua-cam.com/video/ZSbGlGZzerU/v-deo.html
Nice quote
Council: Help! Our ship has taken damage, we need the reinforcements!
Joker: Damn that's rough
Joker: "I don't remember asking"
Shepard: they gave me a higher authority
Joker: so?
Shepard: if I lose it you lose your cushy job
Joker: good point, hang on
“I missed the part where that’s my problem”
@@glowhoo9226 "we'll take away your specter status and you'll have to wait a awful amount of time to get it back with our replacements"
"That's rough buddy."
“We will have a human council, with a human German!”
He does actually say it 😂
I think he says chairman but honestly as a german I first understood german aswell😂
NEIN! NEIN! NEIN! WE WILL NOT HELP THE COLONIES!
lol Nice Funny Mustache man Reference
"It's the Alliance! Thank the Goddess!"
I always play full paragon, & this is easily one of my favorite moments in ME1.
Always playing renegade but still getting goosebumps by this cutscene
Me too!
I love how the only reason you save the council is because of the crew of the destiny ascension
@@connordervoncyberlifegesen8529 Uh. Also because they become a powerful war asset for the fleet in the third game, not to mention having an innocent crew that didn't deserve to die just because YOU don't like the council is stupid.
@@empressink_ The funny thing is, by sacrificing the Council and the Destiny Ascension, you actually get more War Assets in ME3. Destiny Ascension has a War Asset score of 70, while the Alliance Fleet you sacrifice to save it has a score of 75.
Never understood why letting the council die was just in human interest. Did it to literally save the galaxy lol.
That line was so fucking stupid. I hated that there wasn't an option to defend yourself with basically what you said.
Because only the human fleet remained at that time. Humans let the council die.
Shepard even says the council isn't worth risking human lives specifically.
@@willfanofmanyii3751 To be fair, they aren't. I'll take a whole fleet's worth of lives that Get Shit Done over a handful of politicians any day.
the council: humans can fuc(k) off. they aren’t getting on our council
also the council: come to our help or else you’re anti-alien
I know! How can you be stupid enough to not realize that the survival of all living things in the galaxy is at stake?
Tali: Let the Council die to save the galaxy... Tough decision, I hope you did a right call.
Javik if he was there: I am surrounded by primitives
:"it makes me sad that only the Asari have learned politics..."
Javik would have sacrificed the council in the blink of an eye. That’s why we love him lmao
Also Javik: "You should consider throwing them out the airlock commander"
Javik: "in my cicle we had no council" we ate our enemies.
@Sam C agreed
Council: "We will stop at nothing to bring Saren to justice!"
After Virmire
Also Council: "Saren has lost his teeth and you're grounded!"
Why would anyone save the Council?
Because
Because war assets in Mass Effect 3
well it's not just the council, do this next time. save them get enough paragon points and then talk to the punchable reporter in the second game and choose the charm option to see how many were on board
@@aaron75fy They're just xenos, no one will miss them.
@@Dagreatdudeman hope you don't miss the absolute authority being a specter gave you, you won't regain it until game 3 with the new council
You're not just letting the council die. You're letting the crew of the Destiny Ascension hopelessly die. Come Mass Effect 3, if you save them, they return the favor by joining the fight to retake Earth. Seeing the Destiny Ascension in Mass Effect 3 is one of the most beautiful shots in the franchise.
@Roo Morgoo Politicians are the same. No matter the race.
I had chills when the destiny ascension came out with the fleet.
To me it dosent really say much given that every other race is already fighting.
In other words if I had carried over a save where I let them die and they don't come to the rescue it didn't matter because they weren't there in ME1 and if they do come to help its too little too late what is 1 ship going to do
@@homelessgenie3366 you'd be surprised what one ship can do
@@homelessgenie3366 it's not just "one ship". It's THE ship, the best ship the Asari can offer, better even than that freighter that Hackett stays on. The Ascension does make a huge difference.
I love how different udina's speech is in both cases, and how the music massively supports the change.
You missed one pretty major thing. If you let the counsel die, you're guaranteed Salarian support, cure or no cure as the salarian counselor is grateful for you getting them the spot on the counsel. But the Salarian has to survive the encounter with Kai Lang.
The only reason I "save" them is because of the thousands of innocents aboard and they dont deserve to die because of the incompetent council
I agree and because of the Destiny Asencion
Why else would they have a big ship like that with so many people? They know that they themselves are not worth saving.
If I remember correctly the ship has a crew of 1500 people. I can't let all those people die just bc the Council are assholes
@@kieralovesjoxer123 Actually, it has a crew of over 10,000. And now that I've completed a playthrough where I killed Wrex on Virmire, destroyed Maelon's data, and sabotaged the Genophage just to save Mordin, I'm going to see if I can bring myself to do a FemShep playthrough where I sacrifice Ashley on Virmire, romance Kaiden in 1, kill the Council in 1, romance Garrus in 2, and kill Kaiden in 3. Or I could just kill the Council. My friends and relatives keep trying to talk me into changing things up a little, and the last FemShep playthrough I did was for roleplaying a no-romance who's husband, a no-romance MShep, had died and gone into an alternate reality only for the two to be reunited in a third reality upon activating the Crucible.
The reason that I don't save them is because the survival of the entirety of all living things in the known galaxy could be dependent on destroying Sovereign.
An interesting note. If you save the Council as Renegade Shepard, they will be more thankful. And also admire that humanity have the ruthless determination to succeed.
Yeah, they like it when it works for them, not against them.
I mean, Spectres by definition are supposed to be renegades, so yeah, they should like you more.
@@channel45853
Pretty much.
Cannot remember what I did in ME1+2... overall it looks like your decision did not matter in the long run. Missed opportunity by BioWare. One would expect an all-human council would care about the human collonies more.
Well, we don't know for certain whether there truly *is* an all-human council - after all, we never get to see the guys, and for all we know the plan to establish one might just as well have been nipped in the bud. It's pretty typical for BW games - you get to make a decision, but it doesn't really have any long-term implications.
It's quite interesting when you use the Dragon Age Keep feature for said franchise (the purpose of the tool is to manually generate a personalized world state for your prior games because it wasn't possible to actually import a proper savegame across consoles), because there you can see firsthand how many decisions actually play a role and which ones are omitted due to a lack of relevance. Because even there were 300ish different variables, countless seemingly important elements were dropped.
IIRC there's some news entries in 2 that specifically mention that the colony attacks are believed to be caused by FORMER Council Races, so there is the implication that there was definitely a shake up.
ME3 starts with the Alliance basically being curbstomped straight off the bat by the Reapers while Thessia and Sur'kesh are both basically untouched, so another shake up could've happened then.
It doesn't even matter in ME1 which you do, despite this seeming to be one of the most consequential decisions in the whole game.
Ultimately, no matter what you do the only thing that changes are the insertion or deletion of certain lines of dialogue. Your choices never really effect gameplay and the only one that ever felt meaningful was the decision of which soldier to sacrifice in ME1 because that character was then lost to you.
You would think that, but then again Great Britain didn't care about the american colonies and just taxed them to pay off their war boner.
Dont forget that the person that was the director of the trainwreck that was Mass Effect Andromeda was the main writer in ME3 and 50% of ME2. Theres your reason for the the lack of results in ME3.
Mac walters.
“What happens when the council dies?”
The rest of my very first play through is what happens.
I don't get why they put the council on the biggest, most obvious ship in the Citadel fleet. Like, sure it's strong, but it would be destroyed eventually. They should've put them in something small like an escape pod or a fast frigate.
Because counsil was full of self-centered asshats?
maybe because they thought the destiny ascension is so big and stronger than every other ship in the galaxy, so it can`t be destroyed. So they just followed the standard protocols (maybe if they would have listened to shep about the might of the sovereign, they would have made a different decision...)
Yeah it was like a big Titanic floating out there in space
because its the flagship. its the ship every other ship is supposed to protect at all costs. This is equivalent to when a US President visits his Navy at sea, he will always visit his troops on board an aircraft carrier.
@@madkabal True, but it's not like he would stay on board that aircraft carrier if the fleet was going into battle. They would evacuate him in some shape or form in the fastest thing they can get their hands on because of how devastating it would be if he went down with the ship. Plus, I think the Ascension was specifically given the task of evacuating the council in the middle of the battle, meaning they chose to leave the Citadel and board the Ascension to enter the battle.
As a paragon Shepard, I did sacrifice the council at the end of ME1. I doubt there was an all human council that replaced the old one though. I imagine that during the 2 years of Shepard being gone, the Alliance extended a hand to help the Council get back on its feet, which the 3 council races begrudgingly accept. And for the record, I do like the replacement Turian councilor, Quentius. He's far less antagonistic than the old Turian councilor was.
Honestly, allowing them to perish makes zero sense, especially given that the whole escapade makes it look like humanity ignored distress calls and deliberately allowed the highest political leaders from three separate races to die.
Given that nobody believed the reapers existed or that some greater threat was coming, I'd wonder how in the hell humanity was allowed to remain on the Citadel. Think of all the reasons countries in modern times boycott or blockade one another.
@@silverblade357 "modern day" China has literal concentration camps and nobody boycotts them (written from made in China phone). Then russia invaded Georgia, Ukraine, Syria and Libya. Made the first annexation attempt in Europe after 1945... They both still a permanent UN security council member and can (and often do) veto ANY investigations about their war crimes. So if anything no political consequences is the realistic part. When council being useless is exactly like United Nations act on emergencies currently - they do nothing at all and voice deep concern at best.
Also you're not "sacrificing council" you're refusing to sacrifice human ships for them.
@@KasumiRINA it's strange that you wrote Russia with a small letter, and the rest of the countries with a capital letter. And since you mentioned Russia and China. Then talk about the United States. Where the president is an old man with dementia, where leftists allow all kinds of savages to enter the country, who then cut or blow up (like in Europe) where people kneel before criminals who threaten pregnant women with weapons and smash windows. and where, for supporting Trump, you become almost an enemy of the state.
@@nicolaus22 Any ideas on changing the politics so it makes sense again, or for the first time in history?
@@vulthurmir2478 And nothing can be changed. In the USA and Europe, everything was seized by the leftists, allowing the visiting barbarians to destroy the European civilization, since the Americans are the same Europeans. Like civilization, in fact, one, since it was the Europeans who invented this concept of civilization and human rights. In the rest of the world, there are such kings as Putin and Kim in the DPRK, who own a nuclear arsenal and do not know what to expect from them. But in Russia, for example, there are not so many leftists, the most famous is Navalny, who is stupid, without principles and a loser. But the protest is growing and it only remains to wait for the end of the Putin regime, although this can last as long. Well, there remain the countries of Eastern Europe, which are not so pampered with benefits as the same Europe and the United States. For example Poland, Serbia, Hungary and others. One way or another, in the USA and Western Europe, they will play out with games with savages. In Paris, as before, you can't walk around enjoying the beauty, since these non-French faces are walking around, they understand what religion and that they are ready to blow up and cut people for this. All this left ball will burst and not the most developed countries of Europe (Eastern) will be saved from this horror.
I've played this game 6 times through and never, ever even thought about saving the council.
They practically killed themselves by not listening in the first place.
People seem to forget if you play ME2 without playing ME1 with your own choices, default shepard let the council die. So saving them in ME1 gives the story alot of different dialog since they're still alive
Default Shepard let's Wrex die. he's a monster.
That's just means that letting the council die is canon
@@winternet9478 no it's a penalty for not importing a save lol
I like the default ME2 start better than ME3
In my first game, I wasn't sure the fleet could take Sovereign out after engaging with the geths surrounding the Ascension. Time was off the essence, it was a though decision, but it was to save the most lives possible - aliens or humans, no difference. So I was really pissed off when I was accused of letting the concil die for political reasons.
Same
Well, to the general public is going to look that way, that Shepard did it for humanity's political gain, so it's realistic, and also it's realistic that a lot of aliens in the Citadel are more cold and antagonistic towards you because of it.
The funniest part is that if only council moved a finger to help Shepard. Shepard would not have to make the decision in the first place
This is quite fitting if you keep hanging up on them throughout the game
Every time.
In my main playthrough I ended up saving them, honestly if it was JUST the council on the ship I'd have let them burn but it's the 1000 or so crew members on the Ascension that swayed me a little, like I let all those people die just to let 3 specific people who were dicks to me every time I spoke die lol.
Saving them is a bigger loss both in theory and in practice. In theory, it is better to go for a guaranteed kill on Sovereign, with more guns shooting at it, geth threat is insignificant in comparison. In practice, in me3, a single ship saved is less war assets than 3 undamaged fleets.
@@aiopthyrel5243 Saving them gains you War Assets, wdym? And the Destiny Ascension crew is more than the 9 human ships that were destroyed saving them.
@@albar428 70 war assets from saving one big ship is more than 75 war assets from saving 3 fleets? I guess someone's math is wrong.
@@aiopthyrel5243 If you save the Salarian councillor as well, you end up getting 120 assets
@@albar428 an entire fleet disappears somehow, wow. Do they just defect or dismantle their ships? Not funny considering the council gets replaced by pretty much the same dudes.
It’s crazy how your treated badly for saving more lives. The council are 4 members and could be easily replaced, however the alliance fleet can’t be easily replaced.
Yeah but there are areas where maintenance of the status quo helps.
destiny ascension had 10.000 people on board
There are 10,000 people aboard the Destiny ascension, the Council are all well respected across their respective cultures, and the Destiny Ascension is the flagship of the entire Citadel fleet.
Sacrificing the council in favor of the Alliance is placing human interest above the rest of the galaxy, of course everyone else doesn't like that.
The council always gave me shit for saving lives and now they want to be my burden, ok 😑
I am sworn to carry your burden
Hanging up on the council's phone calls always brought a smile to my face
Nothing! They remain as stubborn as the original
Thats true but i did notice a turian citadel vendor in 3 basically tell shepard to get stuffed when ur visiting his store for the 1st time. That i dont like.
Watching these videos really make me appreciate the upgrades in the Legendary edition. Man the og textures in ME1 were rough. Just look at Tali 😂
I initially wanted to let them die, but that little scene broke my heart, the two asari getting their hopes crushed so brutally... I had to reload.
I was expecting the choice to not make much of a difference overall, political bullshit to keep people calm, whatever, but I hoped they'd be more grateful and not disrespect my Shepard in 2 by basically telling her she's crazy for believing the reapers are real. The only member who was ok, was the asari, she even came through in 3, during Udina's betrayal, recognizing it was not wise for them to not trust Shepard in the past.
Having an all human council seems like the worst idea, bound to not last... Guess I don't have to worry about that, I could never go for an overall renegade. There are a couple of understandable or even fun renegade choices, but most just seem so wrong to me, I cringe simply watching videos of them. :'D
I killed them at first, felt like an ass and went back to an earlier save
Same, this game showed me im just a softy
No point in saving the council. They are easily replaceable as seen in 3, net you less war assets and you lose more people (humans, on top of that) saving their sorry asses just for them to keep on being idiots in 2.
That's also interesting that if you sacrifice them the new asari is a cloaca. The other two, however, are less disrespectful to you.
Agreed, honestly one of the better critiques of ME trilogy is that renegade Shepherd is unreasonably sadistic to the point where it's just laughable. Witcher 3 for example is so much better at delivering nuanced choices. It's hard to justify a fully renegade Shep
“Nothing else matters” no truer words were ever spoken
Bruh, don't you have some cannons to calibrate?
In the first game I was fighting an eldritch abomination who was on the verge of invading the galaxy with a fleet of unstoppable mind warping murder ships. I didn't know what the outcome of the decision was going to be. I made a pragmatic choice that it was too much of a risk to lose ships saving the council when Sovereign needed to be stopped. Something in ME1 you could actually state.
ME3 pissed me off when its only two choices for responding to "Humanity let the council die to take control" were "Yes we did that." or "I'm sorry that we did that."
I actually replayed the entire trilogy with just this as a change to see this effect.
Man, this hits harder after you learn that Udina was working with Cerebrus in 3.
It is unclear when those relations start though, to be fair
@@joshkary5040 well Udina always struck me as a Humanoty first type of person, so it probably happened early on.
@@sdaly5391 Well people like Ashley were too honestly, I think that’s more emblematic of human tendencies to be afraid of the unknown/ have irrational hatred of it
@@sdaly5391 IIRC ME3 suggests it was done out of desperation following the reaper invasion. Udina was not a fan of Cerberus in ME2, and there's no evidence that he supports their ideals.
@@joshkary5040 tbf, there's a lot of racism from both humans and aliens, especially in ME 1. It's not about the fear of the unknown, but the hatred of what you think you know.
5:00 I think that's the most Udina ever compliments Shepard.
Hey big dan gaming i just wanna say thank you so much because of you i was able to comeplete the trilogy
Thanks! Glad you liked the vids and the Mass Effect Trilogy
@@BigDanGaming hey can you do the most legendary paragon moments i would really like if you would do it
Your videos are awesome mate. Keep going!
I love videos like this. No matter how many times I play this trilogy there's certain decisions I'll never make.
Honestly, I like some of the deterministic nature of the Council's fate. It really drives home the "different leaders, same bullsbit" remark Jacob says. I just wish there were more implications about humanity pulling what is essentially a coup on galactic politics before they are overruled between 2 and 3. The dissolution of the human council sounds like a really cool story tbh.
Lmao at Udina making that all human council speech only for Shepard to pick Anderson
8:45 it's ironic that you use this scene to say that the death of the council only really has an effect on war assets, because during the standoff with the virmire survivor, one factor on if they trust you or not is the fate of the council in ME1, where saving them does nothing, but letting them die loses you some trust.
I think it is only 1 point of trust that gets lost of the council is sacrificed... at least according to the wiki.
The Normandy screwed over the Citadel council out of spite, presumably because they didn't just take Shepard at their word while they were sounding kinda crazy. Oh, they could argue against risking human lives, but Shepard's spat with the council wasn't exactly a secret!
You'd think Ashley would approve of that, she didn't like aliens.
I'm very sure you can still get through them with enough rep in 3 or some other factors. Also, personally, most of my playthroughs i've just shot them right then and there, never really liked Kaidan or Ashley
@@Ahglock Ashley didn't dislike aliens, she just didn't trust them to give a shit about humanity. She didn't trust Garrus, Wrex or Tali at first, but by ME3, she's friends with all of them and sees Tali as a little sister.
The thing is, Ashley is right. She didn't trust alien races to help humanity when we needed them, and she was right to do so.
If they refused to see me after all Id done Id tell Anderson "Welp, time to remove another council"
THe all Human council is not worth following through with, just like having Anderson as a Councillor since he and they will not be in that position come ME3.
I always appoint Anderson for Councillor - simply as a middle finger towards Udina.
Keep making more vids like this cause I subbed now
"Not a huge difference either way" - Mass Effect in a nutshell
Ain’t that the sad truth.
E wait what
Ah yes "Choice"
EA: We dismiss that claim.
Still more effect than well, any other game. If someone dies they're dead for 3 games.
@@KasumiRINA unlike their other game series Dragon Age where you can kill Leliana, but she shows up alive anyways in DA:Inquisition.
I never knew there was a kill council paragon scene
You should get more war assets by saving them as you get the Salarian Third Fleet instead of STG Task Force when protecting the Salarian counselor in ME3. This adds 125 instead of 70 war assets so you end up with 25 more by saving the council and the game doesn't seemingly retcon your choice later by ending the human council off screen.
Yea, saving the Council ultimately awards you more War Assets due to the difference in what the Salarian Councilor gives you. Not to mention the Salarian Third Fleet has a small upgrade if you grab some heating unit stabilizers.
Funnily enough, this actually seems to be a bug. If you save the replacement Councilor and speak to Hackett about Salarian forces, he mentions that the Councilor is providing you an STG task force IN ADDITION to a fleet. So it may have been planned to award you both assets.
Man oh man oh man.... I first played Mass Effect 1 back in 2010 or something around those lines. A couple of weeks ago PS Plus monthly free games have issued the Mass Effect Legendary Edition. Imagine what a treat that was for me. After finishing playing another game I started playing MEF1 and boy what a treat it was and what memories it brought back. Thanks for all these videos!
I'm so glad you make these videos so I don't have to make those decisions.
I just love, how in the renegade version even the auto-translate function of youtube is going 'real evil', making Udina talk about they will have a human council with a...'human German' (at 3:37).
I had to laugh!
Intensifies the experience in Meme-land!
Oh god oh fuck, hitler is now in charge of the council
Always thought when you sacrifice the council you should toss one of their lines back at them that the mission comes first sometimes sacrifices must be made.
Found this channel Monday band subscribed then. You are making some great content. Keep it up! Also, a suggestion for a video; what if Shepard recommends Anderson/Udina to represent humanity on the council?
I always save the council. In my mind I could then tell them "I told you so!" :P
And they immediately threw away the whole “Reapers” thing like they don’t exist
I remember how beautiful I thought this game looked (#1). While it's still more than playable, but wow it aged.
That being said it pumps me up even more for the collection later this year
I just saved the Council because the music for the scene is amazing
Excellent video. 👍😄
Awesome! I haven't played this way yet, but I constantly regret saving those ingrates.Gonna play again just to let em die.
I've never let the council die in my playtroughs (yet), very interesting to see/hear what difference lighting, music and the tone in Udina's voice can make to which is essentially the same dialog, but makes for a completely different vibe/story.
I love how they even changed the music in the scene based on your morality
I never saw saving the Council as an act of good. Its more and act of proper military tactics. Letting the Geth destroy the Citadel fleet just leaves the Geth fleet free to attack the Alliance with their full force.
Saving the Citadel fleet allows you to wipe out the Geth fleet while suffering only minimal losses because the Geth were caught off guard.
Letting the Council and the citadel fleet die makes not tactical sense at all to me.
I felt the same, not to mention the density ascension is one hell of a ship and I thought it would turn its big guns in sovereign but no dice.
The narrative was the exact opposite though. And I am not sure that makes much sense, as its not like the ascension was sticking around to help fight. So you are sacrificing your fleet for an asset that is running away. As its not the fleet you are jumping in to save but one ship, a ship that is running. And tactically if the only thing that matters is Sovereign, letting the citadel fleet occupy the geth while you make a play on sovereign makes more sense instead of both of you getting tied up with the geth with the hope you finish them off in time to get to sovereign. It is a time honored tactic in ground based war. Not that space battles have a long history of tactics we can draw examples from though.
Either way real tactics would pan out I thought the narrative presented was 1. Save the council take a tactical hit in this battle for strategic gains in the future of keeping the political structures leadership alive. 2. Sacrifice the council, to increase your odds of winning today. But at a cost of political stability in the future.
The intentions within the dialog speak volumes enough.
In one dialog option, Shepard can request aid for the Council (the destiny ascension) because they are familiar political icons that have sway over trillions of people, and they have access to government and possibly military secrets.
Shepard can also say "Focus on Sovereign". Which is not innately centrist but cold strategy.
In the video Shepard says "I'm not sacrificing human lives for the council". That is self interest and yet it is also strategic.
Focusing on the enemy and defeating them in detail at any cost is then a Renegade or Renegon / Paragade point of view.
Yes, but you are on the clock with sovereing - if he takes control of the citadel then that's an auto loss. And while destiny ascenscion gets installed "poofed" after you choose to ignore them - logically they would make great sturdy and tough punching bug.
To me was always the opposite: I have one shot at Sovereign, and I will dump on it everything I have. The alliance is risking ALL their fleet in this, you can afford to loose a ship; it sucks for the civilians, it sucks for the council, but the whole galaxy is worth more than a ship, even with 10'000 aboard. Also, if you listened to my advice JUST ONCE you wouldn't be in this situation to begin with...
From what I learned most mass effect decisions on the more renegade path are basically ignored completely or just not expanded upon very meaningfully
If I was Shepard, I would have saved them just to tell them via communication :"Could u please say I told u so?"
When I played the game the first time, I saved the Council because the Prothean VI said that the Protheans pretty much insta-lost when their leaders were killed and they couldn't reorganize. I thought that there was a chance we couldn't stop the Reapers in time, so it would be best to give the galaxy a chance to coordinate if things went south
Big D you earned this sub
Would have been really cool if the series set up a human supremacist ending, disregarding the implications of the control ending, where Shepherd could have always put humanities interests first. Eventually the reapers would have been defeated regardless, but now humanity is in a position to completely dominate the galaxy, rather than a seeing a united victory and the species come together.
I decided to focus on Sovereign, the council can be replaced, the galaxy cannot.
I always save the council, but strategically, sovereign is the target, I hope if they make a TV show, they will recognise this. You need as much firepower on a reaper as possible.
I absolutely love the 1984 humanity theme that goes on in the background of ME2, it doesnt get talked about enough
Regardless of either alignment, letting the council die sets up pretenses and bits of story in the sequel, (even as a paragade with paragon leaned ending) the citadel sees humanity badly, theres a travel advisory warning about possible crime against humans, Bailey afaik admits to you the unrest in the wards, The turian shopkeeper at the sporting/hunting store vehemently hates you citing that you let them die, and in Thanes loyalty mission, a Turian politician working with organized crime is running for office and publicly (and successfully) decrying humanity's rule, again regardless of whether or not you replaced the government with a fully human one or not. and one citing that embodies the entire outlook is; "They look at us as if we're a bunch of jackbooted thugs enforcing a coup."
You're gonna have a field day when the new game and the remaster come out
That's what I'm hoping for :D
Hope the people who bougth it before get the remasters
It would have made a lot more sense if the three council members had been on board three different ships, making it a lot more likely that at least on of them survives the attack.
Arrogance at it's best, all monarchs are the same in the end afterall.
Well as a wise man once said "In the grand calculus of the universe, their sacrifice means infinitely more than their lives"
Udina in this was letting his Cerberus affiliation ooze through his speech lol
I remember the Illusive man also comments about your choice of council at the beginning of ME2.
I always save the council cause in my head when Mass Effect 3 comes around and they finally wanna listen I just go "Hmmm who could have predicted this I wonder who could have mind linked with me to notice I had a warning in my head"
One of the store owners in mass effect 2 hates u if u kill the council
Huh, as a kid I never realized how accurate politicians 8n this game was
Tactically it made more sense to save the Ascension.
One: The Geth aren’t expecting a counter-attack as they’re assaulting it. Even if they did there’s a good chance of catching them off-guard.
Two: We have to fight those Geth ships sooner or later. They’re not just gonna give up the fight after they destroy the Ascension. Better to knock em down now (possibly by surprise$ instead of letting them flank Alliance ships while they’re attacking Sovereign.
Three: The Ascension is the strongest ship in the fleet. I would hope that as soon as they’re saved then they initiate repairs to weapons. Then they could have joined the fight against Sovereign. Not at full strength mind you, but with some solid firepower.
except that we don't have to fight those geth ships sooner or later coz a. we shut them down in me2 or b. they become allies in me3 or are destroyed by the quarians
If the Humans were running the show they should have let the Volus and Elkor finally have a seat on the Council.
Or the hanar
Council would be even slower to take action then. Hanar and the Elkor are the slowest speakers in the galaxy lol.
@@Vanlost True, I forgot about that but there isa way to fix that. If the console members had neural cybernetics they could speed through meetings in under minutes. Its not perfect an it does come with its own dangerous flaws and I'm not advocating for it, but it would help the Elkor overcome their physical disadvantages and allow them to participate without read time being wasted.
Liara: We must sacrifice the council-
Me: Hell yeah let's do it!
If you take care of your soldiers your soldiers will take care of you if you don't take care of your soldiers your soldiers WILL take care of you
All leaders with armies need to take this to heart lest they end up dying like the council
This game is huge. This is best trilogy ever. Besides the end in mass effect 3. I am so anxious to see the remake.
As cool as it is to see that big ass destiny ascension in mass effect 3, it’s also so satisfying to see that smug asari commandoes face when she finds out joker closed communications.
Maybe being elitists and barring many other deserving races like the elcor, hanharr, and the volus from being on the council, as well as humanity, was not the best idea.
Maybe every race deserves equal representation beyond just having an ambassador who gets to petition them.
It’s literally a mafia.
To me it doesn’t matter if the Council was mean to you the whole game, it’s about saving lives. Not just the Council but the crew of the Destiny Ascension. Humanity’s best quality is knowing the value of human life. And we don’t trade lives for “strategic purposes”
When the fate of the entire galaxy hangs in the balance, I think it's understandable why some people would believe it's a strategic necessity to let the council die. In the heat of a situation like that, sacrificing human lives that you might need to destroy Sovereign in order to save the Destiny Ascension is not a decision you would make lightly.
I was able to meet the human counselors in ME2 when I didn’t import a ME1 playthrough character without Genesis. If you don’t import they make decisions for you
I believe like with most “replacements” in Mass Effect 3 it comes down to time. Heck; personality wise the council members are even that different from who preceded them.
I get the feeling that my soft heart will save them if I get MELE
I had no idea you could create an all human council.
I was so immersed in the imminent reaper threat that I decided that it was just not a priority anymore to help them/even counterproductive to stopping sovereign.
Ascension: This is the Ascension. We are taking heavy damage. GARDIAN defenses are over-
Joker: Oh no! Anyways...
In my original play through way back in ages past I let the council die because I didn't want to risk the final battle. I was later frustrated how the trilogy constantly framed it as if I had done it to advance human interests, and have saved the council in every subsequent playthrough.
You're incorrect on the war asset part. If the council survives and you save the Salarian councillor from Kai Leng, you also get an extra salarian fleet worth 125 points, and can be upgraded to 133, on top of the Destiny Ascension. Not saving the council but saving the Salarian limits you to a 70 point STG group, so the net is still in saving the council's favor
This was the ending that I always really picked because honestly it was the reaper invasion or three politicians
For me I guess you could say I took the Vulcan approach, the council like any other chosen representative can be replaced, dealing a significant blow to an enemy whose goal is to annihilate all life in the universe seemed more important