Sometimes I intentionally get Venomoth's typing wrong and say it's Ice/Normal, other times I use Earthquake against it because I genuinely think that it's a good idea. Silly me. I should have remembered that it's Psychic/Flying type. ;)
Well, either way you should have used Rock Slide. Rock is good against Ice and Flying, so no matter if it was Ice/Normal or Psychic/Flying, it would have been x2 super effective.
"The cornerstone of my plan is overlevelling." So much truth and wisdom in so few words that capture the experience of so many people playing through the story of the Pokemon franchise, at least at some point in their lives
Personally Golem won my heart with this challenge. Had everything going against him and still held his own and won 2 rounds and was more consistent overall.
Venomoth with RKS System or Multitype could be interesting, since it changed type at will in the Trading Card Game with its debut card in the Jungle set.
fun fact: since golem is a trade evolution and no trainer in the game actually owns one, it's actually impossible to see its back OR front sprite without trading/utilizing glitches. It shares this trait with Pinsir/Magmar in red version and Scyther/Electabuzz in blue version and mew in all versions.
I feel like these two are interesting analogues, the fully evolved forms of Bruno and Brock’s Pokémon. Which also makes me think how interesting it is that Brock is the first gym leader but is often really challenging, while Bruno is supposed to be elite and is almost always a pushover.
@Robin- Death To FakeASMR He's legit a nonfactor. Irrespective of the team you build, he'll always be the weakest E4 and half as hard as some of the gym leaders. If you think otherwise, you're a straight up chump.
I found it odd that Brock's Geodude never evolved in the anime into Graveler and then Golem. We've only ever seen Golem in the anime a few times, and never really at its full potential. Yes, Melissa's Golem defeated Gary's Nidoking in the Indigo League, but we only saw the tail end of that fight. Brock is usually a challenge as the first Gym Leader because that early in the game, you're usually poorly prepared for a fight against Rock-Type pokemon, and Onix is tough. By the endgame, however, any strong pokemon on your team with a decent flying or psychic attack will completely destroy Fighting-Type pokemon, and almost everyone has at least one good Water-Type on his/her team to handle Bruno's Onix. For me, Water and Flying pokemon are very common team members, so Bruno's not just a pushover, I don't even have to have a plan for him. My Feraligatr, Pidgeot, Charizard, Aerodactyl, Kingdra, Gyarados, Mantine, shiny Venomoth, Lanturn, Lapras, any one of the legendary birds, hey even my shiny Sandslash has moves that can deal with at least one member of his team. Bruno is a non-character for me, which is a shame in a way since I actually like him in the anime.
On points, golem wins this. The delay in mid roubd 3 with golem you say had little effect, but a two minute gain on splits this close would have golem sweep the times. I think it is a travesty to call this a tie when one pokemon defeats expectations to deliver results. Great video as always, especially to get me so heated ahaha
The way I see it is that Round 1 had Machamp losing almost exclusively by the 5-level deficit caused by exchanging coins for Hyper Beam. Independent of that, hell even with that, Machamp has a steady victory in almost every split. Hell, if Machamp had those additional levels and thus didn't have a massive series of resets at the Champion, the minute-and-a-half to defeat the champion would have netted at least a substantially-closer time in Round 1. Golem appears to have more consistency overall, but Machamp has fewer areas where he actually struggles or faces high risks. ----- That said, Golem did do better than people expected. So, props to the underdog!
Oh no, a mistake with Venomoth's typing that wasn't even for the memes! :O Since neither Earthquake nor Rock Slide had STAB, Machamp would have been a lot safer using Rock Slide for the extra damage. Maybe enough to push things in Machamp's favour since that caused several resets. Gotta be honest, I didn't even vote in the poll because I couldn't tell which Pokemon would win. And somehow that arguably turned out to be the correct answer! The people saying that "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" were wrong this time around. :P Most people doubted Golem because of its 4X weaknesses, but Geodude outperformed my expectations in JRose's solo run, so I didn't weigh it as heavily this time around. Also don't forget that part of the reason for Alakazam beating Gengar was that the optimization of Alakazam's early game was so darn good. So there's a more positive way to look at that run. :P
How you just skipped Bruno in the Golem run hahaha, I laughed so hard xD And I love the occasional 'VS' -Runs from time to time after a series of a specific gen run
"Next is that hiker that hangs out between laurelie and Agath. Because he isn't part of the Elite 4, he's easy, so I move on" 21:32 This made me crack up. After all, what is Bruno, if not the king of all the hikers?
Brother the introduction on this and the production quality were marvelous. Genius if you would, putting in the venomoth meme was quintessential and made me laugh hella hard. Bro your work is so so great, glad to binge them all!
Especially since Golem even in RBY competitive has now become useless because its only useful set is countered by Normal-types, it is very surprising that it handles the game that well.
Hey Scott, just wanted to express how much I truly appreciate you taking the time to complete such a thorough playthrough, even replaying 2 more times. As a college student, I barely have time for games, so it's really impressive you can manage it out! I always make time for your videos though :))) Amazing content as always.
That's how experiments work. You need to try multiple times to reproduce the results. Each run had different variables that he recognized that inadvertently skewed the playing field, thus muddling the results. The first run for example Machamp was lower leveled and he used up more time to get Hyper Beam which ate up time arbitrarily. The second and third run were to further optimize both runs with the third being the most primed run now that he'd worked out most of the kinks for both Pokémon to make the most optimized run he could, RNG allowing in either case. The best way to determine this would be to have a larger sample size of runs to come to a proper consensus. Though the strong takeaway is Golem is the 'safer' Mon to use due to his strong stabs and really key defenses throughout most of the game. Machamp has several spots throughout that are rough for him and RNG can really steam roll you. I'm satisfied with a 'tie' outcome because in each case the split between the two is so monumentally small (1-2 seconds) that it boils down to not so much 'which is better' but who got the best luck throughout the run. Plus playing these at x4 speed makes movement and menu optimizing (Or the lack there of) one of the biggest factors in cutting or adding time to these splits. Not the Pokémon themselves.
was one of the minority of people who thought golem would win because of his better stab moves and the fact that they both have bad special and speed,gotta agree this is basically a statistical tie.
I always love reading the comments on Scott’s videos. They’re either interesting commentary/analysis or funny/wholesome. Big fan of your fans, man (and you too obv)
I never got to play with any of the trade evolutions, but I loved them so much growing up. I believe that I formed trust issues after I traded my Graveler to friend who then never traded it back :(
Premiers in 15 minutes, I'm going to put my assumption that Machamp takes the win, I'd assume he'd have better consistency, whereas Golem has to deal with common double weaknesses and an inaccurate Rock Throw for the early game.
Production value was 10/10 love the new intro. I think even though Golem had a small edge, it’s truly minimal enough to call a tie. Looking forward to more videos, these definitely help fight those sunday scaries!
I’m waiting for the solo Venomoth (Fire/Ground) type play through! Love these vids and you really do read all the comments! 10/10 best Pokémon channel out there.
I love golem, i was lucky enough to breed a shiny one in generation 5, well it was a geodude and had someone trade it back to me and it evolved. I always thought it was funny that a 4 armed boulder evolved into a boulder turtle
It's rumored that game freak originally wanted to make it so in order to evolve these two mons you had to trade one with the other. Like how in Gen five escavalier and accelgor need to be traded and swap features.
I think by the numbers Golem takes the win. Though they are extremely well matched which I guess makes sense as their key stats are really close and their move pull identical. I think the key though is that Golem was easier to play.
Being trade evolution only really held back Machamp and Golem from ever being on my teams when I was a kid. I kinda want to do a trade evolution only run. Machamp, Golem, Gengar, Alakazam. It'd be OP for sure.
Just my opinion, you gave them both three cracks at the game and the lowest overall time was by Machamp. I’d lean towards giving him the victory. However, just watching the playthroughs, it definitely seems like Golem beats the game consistently with less problems than Machamp. Pretty awesome competition, great content Scott!
I love the realistic down to earth intro man!! Like the non scripted natural sense of humor! You should do some live streaming! I think you’d be a fun watch!
Been planning on it. But lost 25% of my RAM during the computer incident, plus my setup is not where I record audio. I'm trying to solve this though, but it might take some time!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon no problem man! I just like some of the off script comments and stuff, it’s a lot more humorous cause you can tell it’s not scripted! I think your personality could draw in some more viewers!
This race is gonna be pretty interesting. Machamp and Golem are pretty good, but they do have their flaws. Machamp has STAB Submission, which is pretty bad, considering that's the only good STAB Fighting move to use. In fact, Fighting type offensively isn't nearly as significant as Gen 2 onwards, since Normal types are rarely encountered, as well as Rock and Ice types. Not to mention, Gen 1 is the Psychic Generation. So, that's a massive thorn on Machamp's side throughout the challenge. Especially Alakazam. While Golem does have better STAB combination, low Speed and common weakness to Water is gonna be a major issue, in addition to low Special as well, since everyone but Bruno has Special Moves.
I'mma be real here. Low Kick's about as good as submission. Sure, it has lower damage, but it also has a flinch chance, better accuracy, and no recoil. Some of the Gen 1 movesets are trash to the point where STAB is meaningless on some of them. If a move misses half the time, you're better off just using a different move to attack with and win out on consistency
It's funny how the flow on effect works competitively Gen 1 is the psychic gen And the special stat gen Which means no poison or fighting Which means no fighting mons to counter normal Which makes great normal types top tier And an alakazam counter And rock is now the normal type counter Which is the sole reason why the best mixed attacker/legendary zapdos is unuseable And there's about 5 trainers outside of blue that have a psychic type pokemon anyway
@@212mochaman Yep, and then as a knee-jerk reaction, Dark was added as a big middle finger to Psychic, when all they add to do was make Ghost less terrible. And Steel's like a little kid getting in on the middle finger action, since it resists Psychic for some reason.
@@InfernosReaper yep. Added dark. Then made it a special attack stat move type. And literally every dark type pokemon that wasnt a pseudo legendary had less special then tauros 🤦♂️
It's weird how the only Pokemon with an ability in gen 1 is Venomoth, and it's really weird how it just moves your moves out of order only when you face it
Ya, this pretty much followed Gen 1 competetive. Machamp is good, but the Flying Weakness and Psychic weakness hinder him as does his speed, whereas Golem has two useful STABS and a ton of random resists with a solid stat spread.
Scott, I've been watching you for quite some time now and i must say as time has progressed the video production has done nothing but get more impressive, most of your jokes land well and keep me chuckling. Keep it up big dog
@@actofcawd209 Yeah, that move's a bit too common and a bit too powerful by other move standards of the era. Fortunately, the only Psychic type pokemon that are really good are Alakazam and Mewtwo, only one of which has to be faced. They wouldn't even be *that* bad if crits weren't hot garbage in that game.
@@InfernosReaper I know right? it's a luck of the draw whether or not you can beat Alakazam unless you have a fast hard hitting Pokemon or a fast Pokemon with slash.
@@actofcawd209 As fond as my memories of Gen1 are, it was definitely not the best. Gen2 and 3 weren't that much better, sadly. It's a shame that the Physical/Special Split didn't happen until Gen4.
I’ve had to rewatch this video several times because I sometimes watch at night and get sleepy. So I will say that the cinematic quality of the start of this video is excellent :)
I can’t get enough of this channel. I especially love the gen 2 runs. Johto is my favorite of the regions. I’ve watched almost all of your older videos. Still have a few to catch up on. Keep up the awesome work. My two favorite things so far from these videos is the hiker in the elite 4 and Erika draining your PP
Awesome vid! Thanks so much for doing the 3 runs, wild how close these 2 ended up being! I had Machamp going into it but Gen1 never fails to surprise haha.
There are several times where you could have used earthquake instead of taking the risk of rock slide, like against slowbroe for example. Rock slide actually doesnt cause flinches in Gen 1, which not sure if that's what you were going for, but it would lead to greater consistency
I couldn't catch this live because I was stuck at work. Still love the solo challenges you do, they're amazing playthroughs showing great insight on certain favorites and obscure Pokemon.
46:40 Thank you! So many people call Golem, Gollum because of Lord of the Rings. It's infuriating, the two concepts have nothing to do with one another. Though picturing Golem in Lord of the Rings is pretty fun, Sam and Frodo would not have had a chance. I must say the amount of effort, time, and persistence you put into this was incredulous and incredible are you a scientist in real life, Scott? You approached this with such careful planning, variable testing and challenged that hypothesis again and again. What a worthy match-up. I agree that in the end I think it can only be called a tie. This deserved the documentary opening you gave it, excellent work, Scott.
Whoa, that was way closer than I thought it would be! Golem's weaknesses are really bad, but I think we may have underestimated how strong its stab combination of rock slide and earthquake really is, especially when it learns dig so early in the game. The soccer ball was basically one shotting everything. I also was pleasantly surprised with Golem's special bulk, I definitely thought it would have a harder time against psychics than it did.
As a football fan, it really pains me to hear the word soccer so many times. On the other hand, your videos are such a joy that i can still deal with the little stitches to my heart.
WOW!!! This guy is great at the game. He really has a good thought process around the game and he puts together really intelligently done videos. The data and the methodology and stuff is rigorous and we trust his results.
I bet in Golem! I got it right! Wow Scott, big clash! Definitely, a tie! Both are too overpowered, well braced for achieving great time marks! I have I like both of them but more Machamp, I guess because Golem is really frail to water an grass! But this challenge was very fun! You are really surpassing yourself each video even more and more! Btw I missed this kind of challenge! Thanks, dude! You did rock! Take care and thank you!😉👍
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I would have rock slide as machamp on the venomoth because it is super effective Earthquake base 100 neutral Rock slide base 75 x 2 150 on venomoth This would have solved koga problems for machamp I would have Earthquake the jynx in lorelei for consistency n accuracy reasons Your Gameplay has cleaned up a ton but you do actually blank on venomoth a ton on its typing bug poison Weak to rock flying psychic fire
@Nate Schendel The Venomoth typing thing is a joke based off of how hard it is to remember its actual type for him: he always thought it was Bug/Flying as opposed to Bug/Poison.
I love the intro lol. I love how you've been adding more and more of your personality into every video. It does a great job setting you apart from the other challenge players. It's crazy to see how far you've come since I started watching when you posted the Hitmonchan video. Keep up the amazing work Scott!
Oh yeah, the Hitmonchan video is so bad! Glad you stuck around and got to see the growth. Behind the scenes, I'm always expect the progress/learning to slow down but it feels like it's speeding up...
My guess at start: Machamp is going to win. The one common thing between all those who have won was higher speed. Edit: though I do hope golem can somehow pull out a win Edit2: wow... I'm shocked honestly lol
There is a pair of trainers in HGSS on the way to the Safari Zone, a Loving Couple you face in a Double Battle. She has a Cloyster and he has an Onix. Double Battle more like double entendre
Interestingly, perhaps due to Stat Exp, at 20:15 Machamp’s special and speed advantages have nearly evaporated by the time the Elite Four, meanwhile Golem’s defense advantage is super clear.
Scott: I'm going to call it a tie Me: Golem clearly wins more consecutively with Gen 1 mechanics Scott 😑. But will it be the same with a rematch of Gen 3 mechanics 👀
Idk. It kinda felt like "Let's do it again and again until Machamp gets a win finally, and then call it an even tie... I do see they were very closely matched and in most of those the difference was mere seconds but mah girl Golem deserves the win 2 out of 3.
Your writing is getting better and better! I can't wait for gen 2 vs challenges! Maybe even with more than two pokemon? Hitmon face off sounds like a really fun video. Anyway, Golem won so many times in so many aspects that taking away its victory is a crime against humanity. And soccer balls.
SPOILERS below I'm really rooting for golem here. I've always been a mega fan of it so I'm hoping this is his time to overcome the odds I didn't realize how slow machamp was. Golem might take this Having Rock throw until earthquake could be great potentially. Obviously the low accuracy isn't good but hey it could be nice. Wait I forgot how early you get dig. And BODY SLAM! Golem has to win Come halfway through the gym challenge they're quite close Wow. Golem's looking thicc before the league Yes. Machamp is crumbling 😌 OMG OMG OMG YES!!! HE DID IT!! OH MY GOLLY! WHAT A BEAST! Golem is good Golem deffo won
Brian Blessed, who voices Boss Nass in The Phantom Menace, is known for his voice (mostly for how loud it is). If you ever have a few minutes look up some clips of him, the man is a force of personality.
awesome runs Scott!!!! I’m really pleasantly surprised that these guys are so close power-wise!!! loved that you did the extra rounds as well to try to figure out how close it was with extra optimisations; awesome video as always, thanks for all your hard work!!!! :)
Think Machamp should win since it is has less weaknesses and overall stats seem to be better distributed. Golem might put up a fight though but it has too many weaknesses.
Sometimes I intentionally get Venomoth's typing wrong and say it's Ice/Normal, other times I use Earthquake against it because I genuinely think that it's a good idea. Silly me. I should have remembered that it's Psychic/Flying type. ;)
Well, either way you should have used Rock Slide. Rock is good against Ice and Flying, so no matter if it was Ice/Normal or Psychic/Flying, it would have been x2 super effective.
...Wait a minute...Vemnomnom isn't normal-type. It's steel-type!
Nah mate, it's a Fighting /Fire type everybody knows.
Scott's thoughts I've left you a hidden message with other comments on other videos
(:--:)
Nope It's Fairy Ice
"The cornerstone of my plan is overlevelling."
So much truth and wisdom in so few words that capture the experience of so many people playing through the story of the Pokemon franchise, at least at some point in their lives
Until they do romhacks with an entire lvl 100+ e4
@@212mochaman and this hacks mostly suck because in like every rpg statstick roadblocks sucks.
Rock beats scissors, unless you use really big scissors.
Personally Golem won my heart with this challenge. Had everything going against him and still held his own and won 2 rounds and was more consistent overall.
Machamp being weak to the most broken typing in Gen I is a huge draw back.
"Venomoth is
Ice/Normal type"
Soon, Venomoth will have ascended to being on the same level as Arceus. It can be any type it wants to be.
Venomoth with RKS System or Multitype could be interesting, since it changed type at will in the Trading Card Game with its debut card in the Jungle set.
I still maintain it's in a quantum superposition of all types and only collapses into one or two types when observed
@@Kanbei11 Schroedinger’s moth
In the gengar/alakazam video it was psychic and dragon. 😆
Alternative title:
"Man doesn't accept his favourite Pokémon to lose and keep trying until things goes his way".
I'm kidding, Scott, you're the best.
Scott is the best.
You really skipped that "hiker" between Lorelei and Agatha for Golem, that was great
Bruno is legit the Hiker boss, the anime even shows him camping in the mountains. 😂
@@autobotstarscream765 The manga has him jump red in a really rocky area
Yeah calling him a Hiker always makes me laugh.
Skipped Bruno with Alakazam & Gengar cuz Psychic!
Even if it’s in every video, I still laugh when Bruno is called a hiker or totally ignored. 😅
I don't think I've ever actually seen golem's gen 1 backsprite. Since it's a trade evolution I never got to use one myself
fun fact: since golem is a trade evolution and no trainer in the game actually owns one, it's actually impossible to see its back OR front sprite without trading/utilizing glitches.
It shares this trait with Pinsir/Magmar in red version and Scyther/Electabuzz in blue version and mew in all versions.
@@HopUpOutDaBed theres a hiker on route 45 who uses a golem in rematches
@@defiant6053 There are no such thing as rematches in Gen 1 (except for the Elite 4)
@@Medabee8 mb i thought this vid was gen 2
@@defiant6053 gen 2 has no rematches either 😅
I feel like these two are interesting analogues, the fully evolved forms of Bruno and Brock’s Pokémon.
Which also makes me think how interesting it is that Brock is the first gym leader but is often really challenging, while Bruno is supposed to be elite and is almost always a pushover.
@Robin- Death To FakeASMR He's legit a nonfactor. Irrespective of the team you build, he'll always be the weakest E4 and half as hard as some of the gym leaders. If you think otherwise, you're a straight up chump.
I found it odd that Brock's Geodude never evolved in the anime into Graveler and then Golem. We've only ever seen Golem in the anime a few times, and never really at its full potential. Yes, Melissa's Golem defeated Gary's Nidoking in the Indigo League, but we only saw the tail end of that fight. Brock is usually a challenge as the first Gym Leader because that early in the game, you're usually poorly prepared for a fight against Rock-Type pokemon, and Onix is tough. By the endgame, however, any strong pokemon on your team with a decent flying or psychic attack will completely destroy Fighting-Type pokemon, and almost everyone has at least one good Water-Type on his/her team to handle Bruno's Onix. For me, Water and Flying pokemon are very common team members, so Bruno's not just a pushover, I don't even have to have a plan for him. My Feraligatr, Pidgeot, Charizard, Aerodactyl, Kingdra, Gyarados, Mantine, shiny Venomoth, Lanturn, Lapras, any one of the legendary birds, hey even my shiny Sandslash has moves that can deal with at least one member of his team. Bruno is a non-character for me, which is a shame in a way since I actually like him in the anime.
Venomoth probably gave your Machamp so many issues because it reminds him of the Elite Four's janitor.
That or Bug/Psychic is an awful typing for a fighting type like Machamp.
Ummm it's grass/flying?
@@Riverakienmas It's Poison/Psychic. Why else would Sabrina and Koga have one for some reason?
@@Cinderblock-c7l no no, it’s fairy/electric! Volkner/Flint rules!
@@projectgarchomp2380 A fairy/dark/steel type? In MY gen 1 game? It's more likely than you think.
On points, golem wins this. The delay in mid roubd 3 with golem you say had little effect, but a two minute gain on splits this close would have golem sweep the times. I think it is a travesty to call this a tie when one pokemon defeats expectations to deliver results.
Great video as always, especially to get me so heated ahaha
The way I see it is that Round 1 had Machamp losing almost exclusively by the 5-level deficit caused by exchanging coins for Hyper Beam. Independent of that, hell even with that, Machamp has a steady victory in almost every split.
Hell, if Machamp had those additional levels and thus didn't have a massive series of resets at the Champion, the minute-and-a-half to defeat the champion would have netted at least a substantially-closer time in Round 1.
Golem appears to have more consistency overall, but Machamp has fewer areas where he actually struggles or faces high risks.
-----
That said, Golem did do better than people expected. So, props to the underdog!
Oh no, a mistake with Venomoth's typing that wasn't even for the memes! :O Since neither Earthquake nor Rock Slide had STAB, Machamp would have been a lot safer using Rock Slide for the extra damage. Maybe enough to push things in Machamp's favour since that caused several resets.
Gotta be honest, I didn't even vote in the poll because I couldn't tell which Pokemon would win. And somehow that arguably turned out to be the correct answer! The people saying that "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" were wrong this time around. :P Most people doubted Golem because of its 4X weaknesses, but Geodude outperformed my expectations in JRose's solo run, so I didn't weigh it as heavily this time around.
Also don't forget that part of the reason for Alakazam beating Gengar was that the optimization of Alakazam's early game was so darn good. So there's a more positive way to look at that run. :P
I should make Tie and option in the future haha
"Imagine kicking Brock's rock-hard snake."
*Brock wiggles eyebrows seductively*
Addition of the gym leader splits on layout is a nice touch
How you just skipped Bruno in the Golem run hahaha, I laughed so hard xD
And I love the occasional 'VS' -Runs from time to time after a series of a specific gen run
Hahah "I drain my pp and let nurse Joy replenish it." such a good line.
Also, of course a soccer ball will end in a draw...
"Next is that hiker that hangs out between laurelie and Agath. Because he isn't part of the Elite 4, he's easy, so I move on"
21:32 This made me crack up. After all, what is Bruno, if not the king of all the hikers?
He's indeed the King under the mountain.
He's not even the king of hikers. The real king of hikers, is the self-destructing one with two geodudes and a graveler in the cave, lol.
"Is 2 arms enough"
Legit gave me a hearty chuckle 🤣
Brother the introduction on this and the production quality were marvelous. Genius if you would, putting in the venomoth meme was quintessential and made me laugh hella hard. Bro your work is so so great, glad to binge them all!
Thanks so much! I'm glad you're enjoying.
For more consistency on venomoth i would suggest rock slide since earthquake is neutral due to its bug typing
i really hope my boy golem gets the win!
Congrats
Game vs metagame really does make you think
Especially since Golem even in RBY competitive has now become useless because its only useful set is countered by Normal-types, it is very surprising that it handles the game that well.
@@iantaakalla8180 it was pretty good in gsc
@@iantaakalla8180 atleast still miles better than machamp :p
Hey Scott, just wanted to express how much I truly appreciate you taking the time to complete such a thorough playthrough, even replaying 2 more times.
As a college student, I barely have time for games, so it's really impressive you can manage it out! I always make time for your videos though :)))
Amazing content as always.
Golem clearly won since you had to do multiple rounds just to get Machamp to win.
That's how experiments work. You need to try multiple times to reproduce the results. Each run had different variables that he recognized that inadvertently skewed the playing field, thus muddling the results. The first run for example Machamp was lower leveled and he used up more time to get Hyper Beam which ate up time arbitrarily. The second and third run were to further optimize both runs with the third being the most primed run now that he'd worked out most of the kinks for both Pokémon to make the most optimized run he could, RNG allowing in either case.
The best way to determine this would be to have a larger sample size of runs to come to a proper consensus. Though the strong takeaway is Golem is the 'safer' Mon to use due to his strong stabs and really key defenses throughout most of the game. Machamp has several spots throughout that are rough for him and RNG can really steam roll you. I'm satisfied with a 'tie' outcome because in each case the split between the two is so monumentally small (1-2 seconds) that it boils down to not so much 'which is better' but who got the best luck throughout the run.
Plus playing these at x4 speed makes movement and menu optimizing (Or the lack there of) one of the biggest factors in cutting or adding time to these splits. Not the Pokémon themselves.
These two made for an absolutely epic race. IMHO definitely worthy of being declared a tie. Great video.
Thanks for spoiling the entire video
@@stonksrus Yeah... I don't scroll through the comments before the video, but the top comment spoiling the entire thing is kinda hard to avoid.
Cries
Also very annoyed at this spoiler here
was one of the minority of people who thought golem would win because of his better stab moves and the fact that they both have bad special and speed,gotta agree this is basically a statistical tie.
Loved this video! The concept of solo runs themselves are great ideas, but merging two into one and comparing two Pokémon is a great watch
I always love reading the comments on Scott’s videos. They’re either interesting commentary/analysis or funny/wholesome. Big fan of your fans, man (and you too obv)
I’m a fan of the comments too! (And you too obv)
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I really enjoyed the video! Good job man!
I never got to play with any of the trade evolutions, but I loved them so much growing up. I believe that I formed trust issues after I traded my Graveler to friend who then never traded it back :(
Premiers in 15 minutes, I'm going to put my assumption that Machamp takes the win, I'd assume he'd have better consistency, whereas Golem has to deal with common double weaknesses and an inaccurate Rock Throw for the early game.
/*Surprised Pikachu Face*
*Golem dabs on your bet*
Production value was 10/10 love the new intro. I think even though Golem had a small edge, it’s truly minimal enough to call a tie. Looking forward to more videos, these definitely help fight those sunday scaries!
I’m waiting for the solo Venomoth (Fire/Ground) type play through! Love these vids and you really do read all the comments! 10/10 best Pokémon channel out there.
Me: It will be interesting to see how Golem does against Bruno's fighting team.
Scott: 25:52
Me: 😐
I love golem, i was lucky enough to breed a shiny one in generation 5, well it was a geodude and had someone trade it back to me and it evolved. I always thought it was funny that a 4 armed boulder evolved into a boulder turtle
It's rumored that game freak originally wanted to make it so in order to evolve these two mons you had to trade one with the other. Like how in Gen five escavalier and accelgor need to be traded and swap features.
@@twistednipzz Thats a super interesting theory. Given the number of bugs in gen 1 I'd believe that they had trouble coding that.
I think by the numbers Golem takes the win. Though they are extremely well matched which I guess makes sense as their key stats are really close and their move pull identical. I think the key though is that Golem was easier to play.
Being trade evolution only really held back Machamp and Golem from ever being on my teams when I was a kid. I kinda want to do a trade evolution only run. Machamp, Golem, Gengar, Alakazam. It'd be OP for sure.
Whole overall vibe of this video feels like a lot more high quality editing went into it. Keep it up man!
"that is how my perfect end runs", he is so triggered about this that he didn't even bother to correct himself by using the infamous "*"
Damn Scott. You hitting my childhood with these 2. Two mons I love that I was unable to obtain because of my lack of friends
This would be cool in later generations where golem has Sturdy and machamp has no guard. Both are cool so either one winning is fine by me
Just my opinion, you gave them both three cracks at the game and the lowest overall time was by Machamp. I’d lean towards giving him the victory. However, just watching the playthroughs, it definitely seems like Golem beats the game consistently with less problems than Machamp. Pretty awesome competition, great content Scott!
I love the realistic down to earth intro man!! Like the non scripted natural sense of humor! You should do some live streaming! I think you’d be a fun watch!
Been planning on it. But lost 25% of my RAM during the computer incident, plus my setup is not where I record audio. I'm trying to solve this though, but it might take some time!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon no problem man! I just like some of the off script comments and stuff, it’s a lot more humorous cause you can tell it’s not scripted! I think your personality could draw in some more viewers!
This race is gonna be pretty interesting. Machamp and Golem are pretty good, but they do have their flaws.
Machamp has STAB Submission, which is pretty bad, considering that's the only good STAB Fighting move to use. In fact, Fighting type offensively isn't nearly as significant as Gen 2 onwards, since Normal types are rarely encountered, as well as Rock and Ice types. Not to mention, Gen 1 is the Psychic Generation. So, that's a massive thorn on Machamp's side throughout the challenge. Especially Alakazam.
While Golem does have better STAB combination, low Speed and common weakness to Water is gonna be a major issue, in addition to low Special as well, since everyone but Bruno has Special Moves.
I'mma be real here. Low Kick's about as good as submission. Sure, it has lower damage, but it also has a flinch chance, better accuracy, and no recoil.
Some of the Gen 1 movesets are trash to the point where STAB is meaningless on some of them. If a move misses half the time, you're better off just using a different move to attack with and win out on consistency
It's funny how the flow on effect works competitively
Gen 1 is the psychic gen
And the special stat gen
Which means no poison or fighting
Which means no fighting mons to counter normal
Which makes great normal types top tier
And an alakazam counter
And rock is now the normal type counter
Which is the sole reason why the best mixed attacker/legendary zapdos is unuseable
And there's about 5 trainers outside of blue that have a psychic type pokemon anyway
@@212mochaman Yep, and then as a knee-jerk reaction, Dark was added as a big middle finger to Psychic, when all they add to do was make Ghost less terrible.
And Steel's like a little kid getting in on the middle finger action, since it resists Psychic for some reason.
@@InfernosReaper yep. Added dark. Then made it a special attack stat move type. And literally every dark type pokemon that wasnt a pseudo legendary had less special then tauros 🤦♂️
@@InfernosReaper gamefreak balance is as retarded as ash catching 42 tauros and releasing all of them and trying to beat brock with a friggin pikachu
I’m so grateful that you are doing these challenge runs, I have been binging these since I found them. You and PC are my favorite poketubers.
It's weird how the only Pokemon with an ability in gen 1 is Venomoth, and it's really weird how it just moves your moves out of order only when you face it
Shift: Changes Venomoth's type.
Ya, this pretty much followed Gen 1 competetive. Machamp is good, but the Flying Weakness and Psychic weakness hinder him as does his speed, whereas Golem has two useful STABS and a ton of random resists with a solid stat spread.
I'll toss you a softball. For your first Gen 3 run, can you use Chimeco?
_Ring the Chimeco_
Scott, I've been watching you for quite some time now and i must say as time has progressed the video production has done nothing but get more impressive, most of your jokes land well and keep me chuckling. Keep it up big dog
So, you're now gonna have to do a rematch in one of the remakes and see how that goes.
The big reason why Golem and Machamp got a tie in this game is due to psychic being far too dominant in Kanto....
@@actofcawd209 Yeah, that move's a bit too common and a bit too powerful by other move standards of the era.
Fortunately, the only Psychic type pokemon that are really good are Alakazam and Mewtwo, only one of which has to be faced. They wouldn't even be *that* bad if crits weren't hot garbage in that game.
@@InfernosReaper I know right? it's a luck of the draw whether or not you can beat Alakazam unless you have a fast hard hitting Pokemon or a fast Pokemon with slash.
@@actofcawd209 As fond as my memories of Gen1 are, it was definitely not the best. Gen2 and 3 weren't that much better, sadly.
It's a shame that the Physical/Special Split didn't happen until Gen4.
I’ve had to rewatch this video several times because I sometimes watch at night and get sleepy. So I will say that the cinematic quality of the start of this video is excellent :)
I love how well golems doing, although that final machamp run against surge had me cackling
also venomoth really is a psychic/crit type this round huh
Critical Hit/CoolTrainer♀️
I can’t get enough of this channel. I especially love the gen 2 runs. Johto is my favorite of the regions. I’ve watched almost all of your older videos. Still have a few to catch up on. Keep up the awesome work.
My two favorite things so far from these videos is the hiker in the elite 4 and Erika draining your PP
Scott: "I don't recommend kicking rocks"
Also Scott: "Golem is a soccer ball"
Awesome vid! Thanks so much for doing the 3 runs, wild how close these 2 ended up being! I had Machamp going into it but Gen1 never fails to surprise haha.
“Imagine kicking Brock’s rock-hard snake.”
29:04 WOOOO "OFC I DID ANOTHER PLAYTHROUGH!!!!” 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Lord Helix is glad that both the children are so evenly matched, thinks your runs would be better if you chose the correct fossil.
He always chooses the right fossil
This comment made by dome gang
@@r0bz0rly Clearly he chose the left fossil and not the right one. For Lord Helix is the right one.
One of your best videos without a doubt. It was so exciting all the way through!!!
There are several times where you could have used earthquake instead of taking the risk of rock slide, like against slowbroe for example. Rock slide actually doesnt cause flinches in Gen 1, which not sure if that's what you were going for, but it would lead to greater consistency
I couldn't catch this live because I was stuck at work. Still love the solo challenges you do, they're amazing playthroughs showing great insight on certain favorites and obscure Pokemon.
Poor Bruno, isn't even worth mentioning in the Golem part of the finale :'D
I'm loving the evolving production quality as Scott makes more and more videos. Keep up the great work, Scott. It's great to see your improvements.
More comment very soon! In a big batch. Been working on them behind the scenes and I'm excited to roll them out!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I'm guessing you meant more content???
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon You're my favorite comment creator :p
"But the soccer ball can't start rolling yet. Rollout doesn't exist in Generation 1." Brilliant
This new intro is cool, like a documentary. Machamp is one of my favorite pokemon. Love these vids. Keep up the good work
Glad you enjoyed the new intro! :)
"Imagine kicking Brock's rock hard snake." ~Scott's Thoughts 2021
Certainly one of my favourite lines ;)
46:40 Thank you! So many people call Golem, Gollum because of Lord of the Rings. It's infuriating, the two concepts have nothing to do with one another. Though picturing Golem in Lord of the Rings is pretty fun, Sam and Frodo would not have had a chance.
I must say the amount of effort, time, and persistence you put into this was incredulous and incredible are you a scientist in real life, Scott? You approached this with such careful planning, variable testing and challenged that hypothesis again and again. What a worthy match-up. I agree that in the end I think it can only be called a tie.
This deserved the documentary opening you gave it, excellent work, Scott.
Even though it was a close run I think golem gets the victory for these runs. Great job loved the bo3
This made
My day. Always look forward to ur vids! Can’t believe how close it really was
That’s how my perfect end runs? Fighting was really lacklustre in gen 1 but nowadats it’s incredible ih and specifying which other hand machamp needed
Whoa, that was way closer than I thought it would be! Golem's weaknesses are really bad, but I think we may have underestimated how strong its stab combination of rock slide and earthquake really is, especially when it learns dig so early in the game. The soccer ball was basically one shotting everything. I also was pleasantly surprised with Golem's special bulk, I definitely thought it would have a harder time against psychics than it did.
As a football fan, it really pains me to hear the word soccer so many times. On the other hand, your videos are such a joy that i can still deal with the little stitches to my heart.
WOW!!! This guy is great at the game. He really has a good thought process around the game and he puts together really intelligently done videos. The data and the methodology and stuff is rigorous and we trust his results.
My favourite part: venomoth is a critical hit typing 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Critical Hit//6!2?2 A
The final blooper at the end, haha. "Gotta swoll 'em all!"
I've been trying to figure out if I need to invest in some extra arms, I'll finally have my answer.
This was a really well done vs. I would love to see more vs videos
I bet in Golem! I got it right! Wow Scott, big clash! Definitely, a tie! Both are too overpowered, well braced for achieving great time marks! I have I like both of them but more Machamp, I guess because Golem is really frail to water an grass! But this challenge was very fun! You are really surpassing yourself each video even more and more! Btw I missed this kind of challenge! Thanks, dude! You did rock! Take care and thank you!😉👍
More of these videos in the future!
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemonweek 3 of your teaser for yanma hp water run
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I would have rock slide as machamp on the venomoth because it is super effective
Earthquake base 100 neutral
Rock slide base 75 x 2 150 on venomoth
This would have solved koga problems for machamp
I would have Earthquake the jynx in lorelei for consistency n accuracy reasons
Your Gameplay has cleaned up a ton but you do actually blank on venomoth a ton on its typing bug poison
Weak to rock flying psychic fire
@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon yes, thanks! it`s gonna be just so cool!
@Nate Schendel The Venomoth typing thing is a joke based off of how hard it is to remember its actual type for him: he always thought it was Bug/Flying as opposed to Bug/Poison.
Didn't expect that result. Thanks for going above and beyond on this one!
Unpopular opinion:
Scott wanted Machamp to win cause his gf said it [was cute]/[reminded her of him]😏
So Scott is a Shokan? 😂
I love the intro lol. I love how you've been adding more and more of your personality into every video. It does a great job setting you apart from the other challenge players. It's crazy to see how far you've come since I started watching when you posted the Hitmonchan video. Keep up the amazing work Scott!
Oh yeah, the Hitmonchan video is so bad! Glad you stuck around and got to see the growth. Behind the scenes, I'm always expect the progress/learning to slow down but it feels like it's speeding up...
My guess at start: Machamp is going to win. The one common thing between all those who have won was higher speed.
Edit: though I do hope golem can somehow pull out a win
Edit2: wow... I'm shocked honestly lol
There is a pair of trainers in HGSS on the way to the Safari Zone, a Loving Couple you face in a Double Battle. She has a Cloyster and he has an Onix.
Double Battle more like double entendre
Not sure why Golem doesn’t learn skull bash seeing how it has a big ol head and is a turtle. Where is Machamps head going for a skull bash?
Interestingly, perhaps due to Stat Exp, at 20:15 Machamp’s special and speed advantages have nearly evaporated by the time the Elite Four, meanwhile Golem’s defense advantage is super clear.
Scott: I'm going to call it a tie
Me: Golem clearly wins more consecutively with Gen 1 mechanics Scott 😑. But will it be the same with a rematch of Gen 3 mechanics 👀
Even tho you mentioned unstoppable force immovable object, Seeing Golems name as “Object” still made me subscribe🤣
Idk. It kinda felt like "Let's do it again and again until Machamp gets a win finally, and then call it an even tie...
I do see they were very closely matched and in most of those the difference was mere seconds but mah girl Golem deserves the win 2 out of 3.
I would have done the same if Golem lost by this sort of margin. Just trying to give Pokemon that people love a fair shot.
12:59 damm it's been so long since I've played the games, the sprite of the enemy pokemon going black when you lose is creepy/foreboding I love it!
"Imagine kicking Brock's rockhard snake" why would you do that to a man 😂
Your writing is getting better and better! I can't wait for gen 2 vs challenges! Maybe even with more than two pokemon? Hitmon face off sounds like a really fun video. Anyway, Golem won so many times in so many aspects that taking away its victory is a crime against humanity. And soccer balls.
Three-way versus videos are coming soon. Quite soon actually...
SPOILERS below
I'm really rooting for golem here. I've always been a mega fan of it so I'm hoping this is his time to overcome the odds
I didn't realize how slow machamp was. Golem might take this
Having Rock throw until earthquake could be great potentially. Obviously the low accuracy isn't good but hey it could be nice. Wait I forgot how early you get dig. And BODY SLAM! Golem has to win
Come halfway through the gym challenge they're quite close
Wow. Golem's looking thicc before the league
Yes. Machamp is crumbling 😌
OMG OMG OMG YES!!! HE DID IT!! OH MY GOLLY! WHAT A BEAST!
Golem is good
Golem deffo won
Golem rocks, hard!
Damn, I've waited for this! Nice man, you are great!
No, venomoth is not ice / normal, it’s a bug / rock pokemon
Brian Blessed, who voices Boss Nass in The Phantom Menace, is known for his voice (mostly for how loud it is). If you ever have a few minutes look up some clips of him, the man is a force of personality.
"imagine kicking brocks rock hard snake" - Scott
awesome runs Scott!!!! I’m really pleasantly surprised that these guys are so close power-wise!!! loved that you did the extra rounds as well to try to figure out how close it was with extra optimisations; awesome video as always, thanks for all your hard work!!!! :)
Think Machamp should win since it is has less weaknesses and overall stats seem to be better distributed. Golem might put up a fight though but it has too many weaknesses.
Wow nice video my man congrats I will be subscribing for sure
Thanks pibbo the pibbo, glad you enjoyed the video :)
The level gap and some sub-optimal move choices made a huge different.
One of your best videos ever! Can't believe how close these were
Pffft, you gave Machamp a whole 3 tries to beat Golem, Golem wins.