Based on the on screen evidence and technical sources off screen I think transwarp did fail with the Excelsior project but Starfleet realized the bones of the Excelsior was sound and more capable than the Constitution refit so they put the Excelsior into production with a conventional warp drive and it was faster than anything else in galaxy at that time. There's evidence in the TNG tech manual that warp scale was re-written because ships were becoming more powerful starting in the TMP era. Which brings us to the Constitution. Many sources list the Constitution class cruising speed at warp 6 and maximum speed as warp 8. Many sources list the Constitution refit cruising speed as warp 7 and max speed at warp 12(TOS scale) that works out to warp 9.3(TNG scale) which makes sense since the 24th century Miranda class has max speed of warp 9.2. This brings me to why we don't see Constitution refit that often in TNG/DS9. It wasn't because they were too slow or couldn't be updated with new tech because the Miranda, Excelsior, Oberth, Sydney, Centaur, classes are from the TMP era and have been updated to stay in service. We did see the wreckage of Connie in the Wolf359 aftermath, a refit Connie was seen in Qualor 2, IIRC a Connie was in the background during a Dominion war fleet action. My theory is both the Constitution refit and Constellation classes were largely retired in the mid 24th century when the Ambassador class was introduced since their mission profile was effectively replaced by both the Ambassador and Excelsior allowing these older cruisers to phased out.
I always went with the take on transwarp that the Excelsior's drive failed to achieve true transwarp, but it *did* successfully amplify conventional warp drive such that they were using the new scale. It was treated as significant that the Borg had true transwarp through conduits, for instance. (I do feel like setting 'Warp 10 as infinite velocity' actually resulted in a lot more unwieldy numbers behind decimal points once people start hitting 9.9XXX as they often ended up doing in Voyager. It's almost like they should have kept the scale going with higher numbers or maybe values with letters or other notations at given points.
I imagine that as Excelsior failed because of Scottys fiddling, the project got shelved for a few years. After the one with the whales shenanigans, Scotty asked about excelsior and transwarp, they told him, he personally got the project back up and running.
Nice video and love your artwork for this one! In my head canon, I think of true transwarp as requiring insanely massive amounts of power to achieve and sustain - far more than could be generated by a single ship or even a fleet of ships. Hence why the Borg achieved transwarp, but only by building massive “infrastructure” like transwarp conduit generators and gates. The resources required and energy consumption of this infrastructure is also why they didn’t just spread throughout the galaxy and beyond as soon as they developed transwarp tech, too… In my head canon 🤷♂️
IRL the original formula for warp factor was the cubic root of Xc, or in simpler terms cube the warp factor and that's how many times the speed of light you're going. (So WF2=8c, WF5=125c, WF8=512c, ect.) Partly into TNG Roddenberry decided this was far too simple a calculation, so he changed it to something far more complex to do off the top of one's head -- X speed of light to the root power of ten-thirds -- and set the hard limit at warp factor 10, stating that it was infinite velocity.
The late 23rd century attempts were definitely failures but Starfleet did get a damn good ship design out of it. And they still got better speeds out of it, so much they had to redefine the Warp Scale. But as seen in Star Trek Prodigy, the Federation has their Transwarp drives now, with the newer Slipstream drives and the even more ridiculous Protodrive (which can go up to 4000 lightyears in MINUTES, they can cross the galaxy in hours!) which they have proven they can reproduce and now have several ship classes that use them.
Interesting idea that over the decades between STIII and TNG that the word “transwarp” got simplified back to “warp” since transwarp became the standard speed scale! This kind of thing has happened countless times throughout history, so it makes sense that it would happen in the “future”.
@@starshipreviews I think the refit is the best looking, I think exclesior edges her out on pretty points by a little, maybe I'm biased though since tng and onwards was the trek I grew up with
I have enjoyed seeing this class of ship since ST III. The thick neck was the best thing due to years of seeing such a thin neck in the Constitution class. Just a majestic design.
The ncc-2000 Excelsior has to be my favorite, there's just not enough detail like the Galaxy & Constitution. Many years ago i had read somewhere about the transwarp mechanism was in that opening at the bottom. Now this was some 30+ years ago & can't remember where i read it, but something was supposed to slide out of that opening & then it would go into "transwarp." They for whatever reason couldn't do it with model for the movie & all we got was that opening. We never see a shuttle land or take off out of that opening. You'd think with all the screen time its had that by now we'd see a shuttle come out of it. When i saw the video below it confirmed somewhat to what i read. This opening on the Excelsior keeps me up at night like the turbolifts on the Oberth Class. ua-cam.com/video/AY3z7nghDNk/v-deo.htmlsi=Yi2G6JEvYpWyO_mO
I was really looking forward to some explanation of what the big hole is in the rear bottom of the secondary hull/ engineering section? Is it a shuttle bay? Rear deflector/sensor aray? Or was it something that had to do with transwarp?
I have wondered if that was what Scotty's problem with the Excelsior was. I'm sure Scotty was up on his technical journals and had maybe seen the evolution of transwarp drive and based on his own knowledge he knew it would not work. At least as it was initially.
The original version of warp speed was a simple linear thing. There was no theoretical limit. TNG established that warp speeds were now logarhythmic. Logosruthmin. Lapro... Lumberjack dancers. The warp ten barrier wasn't a speed limit - it meant you achieve infinite velocity, and are thusly present in every planck space dimension of the entire universe simultaneously and, as you point out, mutate into horny salamanders with little regard for formal protocol, which is amazingly stupid. That means, though... Well, I can't account for any canon following past, more or less Voyager, but, I dunno where transwarp means faster-than-warp comes from. Mind you for a show that attracts a lot of people who care about continuity and what words mean, the writers have shown little or no care for the same, so, I dunno, maybe some post-Taylor dialog says something, I wouldn't put it past 'em. However, you can't get faster than infinitely fast. Warp speed covers the entire gamut of possible speeds, even if attaining that speed is impossible. Screw you, Threshold. Transwarp is an acceleration issue, not a top speed one. Bear in mind, 'trans' means 'to cross' or to encompass. As in, transatlantic, crossing the atlantic. Transceiver, across receptions, Trans-Am, across Am. Transport - to cross between ports. Transformers - more than meets the eye. Transwarp, to cross the warp. "All warp speeds available through transwarp drive." "Incredible machine!" The difference between a ship with transwarp drive and one with mere mortal common or garden warp drive is that the TWD ship can go from impulse to warp whatever without having to tediously climb through all the warp speeds on the way there. The Enterprise has to go to WF1, then WF2, then WF3, then WF4 etc etc in order to get to WF8, say. The Excelsior can just go to WF8. We have seen that the Enterprise does this multiple times in the show, and in ST: TMP.. I see no reason to think it was ever a failure - Scotty removing key components doesn't make the drive a failure. If I take the split differential out of your car it doesn't mean combustion engines don't work, it means your car is borked. After TOS era, it looks to me very much like all newer ships use a TWD. The D doesn't seem to need to pass through lower warp speeds, and in fact is stated as being capable of jumping directly to warp nine at least once. it's further worth pointing out that Styles says he is looking forward to breaking some of Enterprise's speed records. Meaning more than one. So, maybe he means top speed, sure, but more than one means he must also include other types, and one of those is going to be time-to-velocity. Just like a car doing 0-60 is a measure of engine power, even though 60mph isn't all that rapid. How long does it take Enterprise to hit Warp 3 from a dead stop? Sixty seconds? Well, Excelsior can do it in forty! That's what's being discussed. So, when you say we don't see Constitution class ships in TNG, and you're right, we don't, memos were written forbidding this - the Big Tall Men were adamant that it never be shown that the D was better than the OG for various reasons, but we do see plenty of ships of the same era, Oberth and Miranda leap to mind, both classes predate the Excelsior and so predate the TWD. The argument for the one class cannot stand against the argument for the other. Here's the thing - with TWD as a jump-to-warp drive it's interesting, and sometimes useful, but for the majority of the time it's kinda pointless - shaving a minute or two off your getting to speed time doesn't account for much on a six week voyage. I would hazzard the opine that the reason it's not mentioned after much, or possibly at all, is just that, you can do it, sure, but there's hardly ever any need. I would further volunteer the HC thing I have which is that TWD nacelles glow blue, which is why several of the pre-Excelsior ships are sometimes shown glowing blue when they were not originally. This is getting awfully long... And, on economy, no, this is all too common, not having currency isn't the same thing as not having an economy. If you ditch the currency but still have to allocate resources, then those resources are your economic unit. You're not post-economics, you've just made the entire process much less useful. Even if the 'coin' of your socio-economic unit is a battleship, that is still a currency based economy, you just have to have very, very big wallets. This is why i often say, Trek writers have zero understanding of economics - they keep insisting that impossible things are true. To put it as simply as I can - the word economy MEANS having limited resources. If you have limited resources, you have an economy, and denying that fact is the work of poorly educated people. As a final note, except for the one after, When she is introduced the order of dialog is... "There she is, the great experiment." "They say she has transwarp dirve..." Linguistically, this means the great experiment is not the TWD. The entire ship is the great experiment. TWD is 'a' thing that they have. lastly, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I don't care, really, but I do enjoy chatting about such things and I do have experience (way too much, everything hurts) in specific areas. One of those is rhetoric, and what you've got here (unless I'm missing something really big, which I may be) is a faulty presuppositional axiom, namely, that transwarp relates to maximum speed. Certainly within the frame of ST:TSFS that doesn't work. Good video as always, enjoy them all, look forward to the next one. Especially if it's 'Why the genesis device is NOT the core technology of the replicator' ;-)
Well, on the economics, the settled worlds of the Federation at least are indeed post-scarcity for most practical purposes. But of course to build your battleships you still need enough people and other labor-like resources to actually do it. They probably just aren't doing it to keep a roof over their heads and their bellies full cause those 'costs' are quite negligible. And of course the Federation clearly trades internally and externally, but in some senses the only limits are what can actually be achieved in a given time regarding hard-to-get-or-process materials and available people. (Probably one reason Mars turned to androids to do their massive buildup to evacuate Romulus. )
@@OllamhDrab Post-scarcity at X level but not Y level means your economy functions at a Y level, it doesn't mean you're post-scarcity. That's the thing that Trek writers screw up. Let's try another way. Let's say you're a freshly minted Federation citizen, all scrubbed up and looking dandy. Can you have your own starship? What about your own warp capable shuttle? How large can your house be? If I wanna go live on the planet with the robots showgirls on it, who decides when I can go, and if I can go? Can I have a phaser rifle? A legion of battle drones? Where is the limit to my fantastic dreams? That's how you find the cutting edge of your fictional world, what you cannot do. Trek tended to hand wave away such issues by saying 'mankind has evolved past all that' which is, why you can't take them seriously. The issue seems to me to be an awful lot of people believe that money is a distinct and seperate objective concept and therefore can simply be removed entirely and leave the rest intact. It isn't, it is a manifestation of the concept of value, AND a means by which work can be stored in perpetuity. You cannot remove value from society, and if you remove the ability to store work you instantly lose any reason to do more work than that which is immediate. Trek has always claimed these are the silly bits and someone is bound to come up with a solution. All this is quite seperate from the problem that if you remove money as a concept about half of your character motivations are lost along with it, which is why DS9 backdoored currency back into the franchise and then did several episodes where they mocked the idea. Don't take this as a dig - there are many, many many, many many many people, including not a few world 'leaders' who haven't got the foggiest notion of how economics actually work.
@@Belzediel Well, I disagree with some of your philosophical ideas of people need money to be motivated. Of course there are 'Federation credits' which fill some gaps as a medium of exchange, but for the most part, no, Federation citizens don't seem to need them for daily needs, even including travel, it would seem. (At least assuming that travel is within the Federation's economy rather than on some other group's vessels. ) Nonetheless when I said 'post scarcity for most practical purposes' that's what I meant. Obviously it doesn't mean 'Everybody gets a personal starship' but chances are there's ways to achieve that, like Cassidy Yates and some others we meet actually do in some capacity. (in her case presumably by providing shipping andtransportation and such. ) On DS9. the Starfleet people clearly can translate their 'credits' into the currencies used on a Bajoran station with all kinds of non-Federation folks like the Ferengi trading there. That clearly is a different situation than on settled Federation worlds or fully Starfleet facilities and such. Media of exchange are hardly some *foreign concept* even if you can in fact live comfortably without ever touching or concerning yourself with 'money.' That's what the post-scarcity means. Of course one of the reasons the Federation worlds do explore and colonize is for those people that want that kind of challenge or are born to it can end up making more out of less, and that's seen as a noble enough ambition of course. They may still get a lot of Federation support but also tend to be pretty proudly self-sufficient. In their own ways, anyway. Also more likely to need to trade with the neighbors in many cases. As for 'can you have a phaser rifle,' well, that's not as if a replicator couldn't possibly churn one out but the Federation isn't in the business of making things that destructive generally-available.
I only consider what's on screen canon, myself, in which case transwarp is essentially not mentioned after Star Trek III. However, we see Star Trek introduce a new scale with TNG. I personally assumed that new scale was due to the new transwarp drives all those later ships sported. Obviously, Scotty's sabotage would be quickly discovered and repaired. Excelsior's trials might have been delayed a few weeks, but little more. Hopefully, transwarp had been tested on prototype platforms before investing in a massive, expensive starship.
I've always thought that the Excelsior's Transwarp drive worked, just got renamed to Warp drive. Similarly, in aviation, back in WWI many early fighters had rotary engines. No, not Wankel style rotary engines, but engines that rotated around a central shaft. So it's definitely possible that it is just a reused term.
I'd always heard that the reason they never used the Constitution model was that the physical model was massive and unwieldly for a television production.
I think there were a few reasons why it wasn’t, the size of the model and a fear that it would confuse viewers if the enterprise appeared on screen with, well the enterprise
I think originally warp speed was logarithmic multipliers of the speed of light, but that meant going warp 1 would take years, warp 3 days, warp 6 minutes. So why go less than warp5?
Here is my take before watching. Nowhere in Star Trek (movies or TV) AFAIK, does it say it was a failure but we can still surmise that since they were still doing experiments in the TNG era, that it was a failure,technically. Here is the thing. The Excelsior may not have achieved transwarp but it did reach something that its engineers and that scientists THOUGHT was transwarp. In reality it was just a vastly superior form of regular warp travel, which had to have been shared since this has to be the reason the warp scale changes in universe and why all other powers in the alpha and beta quadrants use the new scale. So yes, technically it failed to reach transwarp but still was a success in a different way. EDIT: and ofc, the Excelsior failed to chase after the Enterprise because Scotty sabotaged it. They literally were going to be charged for that but it was dropped as the crew of the Enterprise literally just saved the earth. Odds are if there was no sabotage, the Excelsior would have caught up in no time. Not because of transwarp but because again,just a much faster warp speed. Turns out you are basically saying the same thing as me.
When the jet engine was first used in the air it was expensive dangerous and needed an experienced and slightly crazy pilot to fly it, I don't see any reason why switching from the traditional warp engines to transwarp engines should be any different. Starfleet gave up too easily. It may have been expensive but it would have been also a gamechanger.
Based on the on screen evidence and technical sources off screen I think transwarp did fail with the Excelsior project but Starfleet realized the bones of the Excelsior was sound and more capable than the Constitution refit so they put the Excelsior into production with a conventional warp drive and it was faster than anything else in galaxy at that time. There's evidence in the TNG tech manual that warp scale was re-written because ships were becoming more powerful starting in the TMP era. Which brings us to the Constitution. Many sources list the Constitution class cruising speed at warp 6 and maximum speed as warp 8. Many sources list the Constitution refit cruising speed as warp 7 and max speed at warp 12(TOS scale) that works out to warp 9.3(TNG scale) which makes sense since the 24th century Miranda class has max speed of warp 9.2. This brings me to why we don't see Constitution refit that often in TNG/DS9. It wasn't because they were too slow or couldn't be updated with new tech because the Miranda, Excelsior, Oberth, Sydney, Centaur, classes are from the TMP era and have been updated to stay in service. We did see the wreckage of Connie in the Wolf359 aftermath, a refit Connie was seen in Qualor 2, IIRC a Connie was in the background during a Dominion war fleet action. My theory is both the Constitution refit and Constellation classes were largely retired in the mid 24th century when the Ambassador class was introduced since their mission profile was effectively replaced by both the Ambassador and Excelsior allowing these older cruisers to phased out.
I always went with the take on transwarp that the Excelsior's drive failed to achieve true transwarp, but it *did* successfully amplify conventional warp drive such that they were using the new scale. It was treated as significant that the Borg had true transwarp through conduits, for instance. (I do feel like setting 'Warp 10 as infinite velocity' actually resulted in a lot more unwieldy numbers behind decimal points once people start hitting 9.9XXX as they often ended up doing in Voyager. It's almost like they should have kept the scale going with higher numbers or maybe values with letters or other notations at given points.
another youtuber suggested they start naming anything past Warp 9.99 as "Transwarp 1, Transwarp 2" etc.
@cernstormrunner7263 I’m partial to ludicrous speed myself
@@cernstormrunner7263 I dunno, I think there's a case to be made that transwarp isn't just a matter of higher warp factors.
@@OllamhDrab true, just it'd just be easier than an escalating series of .99999999's
I exactly agree with OllamhDrab on this 👍
I imagine that as Excelsior failed because of Scottys fiddling, the project got shelved for a few years. After the one with the whales shenanigans, Scotty asked about excelsior and transwarp, they told him, he personally got the project back up and running.
Nice video and love your artwork for this one!
In my head canon, I think of true transwarp as requiring insanely massive amounts of power to achieve and sustain - far more than could be generated by a single ship or even a fleet of ships. Hence why the Borg achieved transwarp, but only by building massive “infrastructure” like transwarp conduit generators and gates. The resources required and energy consumption of this infrastructure is also why they didn’t just spread throughout the galaxy and beyond as soon as they developed transwarp tech, too… In my head canon 🤷♂️
IRL the original formula for warp factor was the cubic root of Xc, or in simpler terms cube the warp factor and that's how many times the speed of light you're going. (So WF2=8c, WF5=125c, WF8=512c, ect.)
Partly into TNG Roddenberry decided this was far too simple a calculation, so he changed it to something far more complex to do off the top of one's head -- X speed of light to the root power of ten-thirds -- and set the hard limit at warp factor 10, stating that it was infinite velocity.
Transwarp success! Run into the Borg and the Dominion in the 23rd century. Oh no.
The late 23rd century attempts were definitely failures but Starfleet did get a damn good ship design out of it. And they still got better speeds out of it, so much they had to redefine the Warp Scale.
But as seen in Star Trek Prodigy, the Federation has their Transwarp drives now, with the newer Slipstream drives and the even more ridiculous Protodrive (which can go up to 4000 lightyears in MINUTES, they can cross the galaxy in hours!) which they have proven they can reproduce and now have several ship classes that use them.
Interesting idea that over the decades between STIII and TNG that the word “transwarp” got simplified back to “warp” since transwarp became the standard speed scale! This kind of thing has happened countless times throughout history, so it makes sense that it would happen in the “future”.
exclesior is a prettier design than constitution, fight me
Hmm… which Connie variant?
@@starshipreviews I think the refit is the best looking, I think exclesior edges her out on pretty points by a little, maybe I'm biased though since tng and onwards was the trek I grew up with
I considered transwarp to be a forerunner of slip stream technology.
I have enjoyed seeing this class of ship since ST III. The thick neck was the best thing due to years of seeing such a thin neck in the Constitution class. Just a majestic design.
I agree, excelsior is a really good looking design
I largely agree with your points in this video.
The ncc-2000 Excelsior has to be my favorite, there's just not enough detail like the Galaxy & Constitution. Many years ago i had read somewhere about the transwarp mechanism was in that opening at the bottom. Now this was some 30+ years ago & can't remember where i read it, but something was supposed to slide out of that opening & then it would go into "transwarp." They for whatever reason couldn't do it with model for the movie & all we got was that opening. We never see a shuttle land or take off out of that opening. You'd think with all the screen time its had that by now we'd see a shuttle come out of it. When i saw the video below it confirmed somewhat to what i read. This opening on the Excelsior keeps me up at night like the turbolifts on the Oberth Class.
ua-cam.com/video/AY3z7nghDNk/v-deo.htmlsi=Yi2G6JEvYpWyO_mO
If it worked, then ships would have it.
I was really looking forward to some explanation of what the big hole is in the rear bottom of the secondary hull/ engineering section? Is it a shuttle bay? Rear deflector/sensor aray? Or was it something that had to do with transwarp?
I think the typical thought is that it is a shuttlebay complex
I have wondered if that was what Scotty's problem with the Excelsior was. I'm sure Scotty was up on his technical journals and had maybe seen the evolution of transwarp drive and based on his own knowledge he knew it would not work. At least as it was initially.
The original version of warp speed was a simple linear thing. There was no theoretical limit.
TNG established that warp speeds were now logarhythmic. Logosruthmin. Lapro... Lumberjack dancers. The warp ten barrier wasn't a speed limit - it meant you achieve infinite velocity, and are thusly present in every planck space dimension of the entire universe simultaneously and, as you point out, mutate into horny salamanders with little regard for formal protocol, which is amazingly stupid. That means, though...
Well, I can't account for any canon following past, more or less Voyager, but, I dunno where transwarp means faster-than-warp comes from. Mind you for a show that attracts a lot of people who care about continuity and what words mean, the writers have shown little or no care for the same, so, I dunno, maybe some post-Taylor dialog says something, I wouldn't put it past 'em. However, you can't get faster than infinitely fast. Warp speed covers the entire gamut of possible speeds, even if attaining that speed is impossible. Screw you, Threshold. Transwarp is an acceleration issue, not a top speed one. Bear in mind, 'trans' means 'to cross' or to encompass. As in, transatlantic, crossing the atlantic. Transceiver, across receptions, Trans-Am, across Am. Transport - to cross between ports. Transformers - more than meets the eye. Transwarp, to cross the warp.
"All warp speeds available through transwarp drive." "Incredible machine!"
The difference between a ship with transwarp drive and one with mere mortal common or garden warp drive is that the TWD ship can go from impulse to warp whatever without having to tediously climb through all the warp speeds on the way there. The Enterprise has to go to WF1, then WF2, then WF3, then WF4 etc etc in order to get to WF8, say. The Excelsior can just go to WF8. We have seen that the Enterprise does this multiple times in the show, and in ST: TMP..
I see no reason to think it was ever a failure - Scotty removing key components doesn't make the drive a failure. If I take the split differential out of your car it doesn't mean combustion engines don't work, it means your car is borked.
After TOS era, it looks to me very much like all newer ships use a TWD. The D doesn't seem to need to pass through lower warp speeds, and in fact is stated as being capable of jumping directly to warp nine at least once.
it's further worth pointing out that Styles says he is looking forward to breaking some of Enterprise's speed records. Meaning more than one. So, maybe he means top speed, sure, but more than one means he must also include other types, and one of those is going to be time-to-velocity. Just like a car doing 0-60 is a measure of engine power, even though 60mph isn't all that rapid.
How long does it take Enterprise to hit Warp 3 from a dead stop? Sixty seconds? Well, Excelsior can do it in forty! That's what's being discussed.
So, when you say we don't see Constitution class ships in TNG, and you're right, we don't, memos were written forbidding this - the Big Tall Men were adamant that it never be shown that the D was better than the OG for various reasons, but we do see plenty of ships of the same era, Oberth and Miranda leap to mind, both classes predate the Excelsior and so predate the TWD. The argument for the one class cannot stand against the argument for the other. Here's the thing - with TWD as a jump-to-warp drive it's interesting, and sometimes useful, but for the majority of the time it's kinda pointless - shaving a minute or two off your getting to speed time doesn't account for much on a six week voyage. I would hazzard the opine that the reason it's not mentioned after much, or possibly at all, is just that, you can do it, sure, but there's hardly ever any need.
I would further volunteer the HC thing I have which is that TWD nacelles glow blue, which is why several of the pre-Excelsior ships are sometimes shown glowing blue when they were not originally.
This is getting awfully long...
And, on economy, no, this is all too common, not having currency isn't the same thing as not having an economy. If you ditch the currency but still have to allocate resources, then those resources are your economic unit. You're not post-economics, you've just made the entire process much less useful. Even if the 'coin' of your socio-economic unit is a battleship, that is still a currency based economy, you just have to have very, very big wallets. This is why i often say, Trek writers have zero understanding of economics - they keep insisting that impossible things are true. To put it as simply as I can - the word economy MEANS having limited resources. If you have limited resources, you have an economy, and denying that fact is the work of poorly educated people.
As a final note, except for the one after,
When she is introduced the order of dialog is...
"There she is, the great experiment."
"They say she has transwarp dirve..."
Linguistically, this means the great experiment is not the TWD. The entire ship is the great experiment. TWD is 'a' thing that they have.
lastly, I'm not trying to rain on your parade, I don't care, really, but I do enjoy chatting about such things and I do have experience (way too much, everything hurts) in specific areas. One of those is rhetoric, and what you've got here (unless I'm missing something really big, which I may be) is a faulty presuppositional axiom, namely, that transwarp relates to maximum speed. Certainly within the frame of ST:TSFS that doesn't work.
Good video as always, enjoy them all, look forward to the next one. Especially if it's 'Why the genesis device is NOT the core technology of the replicator' ;-)
Well, on the economics, the settled worlds of the Federation at least are indeed post-scarcity for most practical purposes. But of course to build your battleships you still need enough people and other labor-like resources to actually do it. They probably just aren't doing it to keep a roof over their heads and their bellies full cause those 'costs' are quite negligible. And of course the Federation clearly trades internally and externally, but in some senses the only limits are what can actually be achieved in a given time regarding hard-to-get-or-process materials and available people. (Probably one reason Mars turned to androids to do their massive buildup to evacuate Romulus. )
@@OllamhDrab Post-scarcity at X level but not Y level means your economy functions at a Y level, it doesn't mean you're post-scarcity. That's the thing that Trek writers screw up.
Let's try another way. Let's say you're a freshly minted Federation citizen, all scrubbed up and looking dandy. Can you have your own starship? What about your own warp capable shuttle? How large can your house be? If I wanna go live on the planet with the robots showgirls on it, who decides when I can go, and if I can go? Can I have a phaser rifle? A legion of battle drones? Where is the limit to my fantastic dreams? That's how you find the cutting edge of your fictional world, what you cannot do. Trek tended to hand wave away such issues by saying 'mankind has evolved past all that' which is, why you can't take them seriously.
The issue seems to me to be an awful lot of people believe that money is a distinct and seperate objective concept and therefore can simply be removed entirely and leave the rest intact. It isn't, it is a manifestation of the concept of value, AND a means by which work can be stored in perpetuity. You cannot remove value from society, and if you remove the ability to store work you instantly lose any reason to do more work than that which is immediate. Trek has always claimed these are the silly bits and someone is bound to come up with a solution. All this is quite seperate from the problem that if you remove money as a concept about half of your character motivations are lost along with it, which is why DS9 backdoored currency back into the franchise and then did several episodes where they mocked the idea.
Don't take this as a dig - there are many, many many, many many many people, including not a few world 'leaders' who haven't got the foggiest notion of how economics actually work.
@@Belzediel Well, I disagree with some of your philosophical ideas of people need money to be motivated. Of course there are 'Federation credits' which fill some gaps as a medium of exchange, but for the most part, no, Federation citizens don't seem to need them for daily needs, even including travel, it would seem. (At least assuming that travel is within the Federation's economy rather than on some other group's vessels. )
Nonetheless when I said 'post scarcity for most practical purposes' that's what I meant. Obviously it doesn't mean 'Everybody gets a personal starship' but chances are there's ways to achieve that, like Cassidy Yates and some others we meet actually do in some capacity. (in her case presumably by providing shipping andtransportation and such. )
On DS9. the Starfleet people clearly can translate their 'credits' into the currencies used on a Bajoran station with all kinds of non-Federation folks like the Ferengi trading there. That clearly is a different situation than on settled Federation worlds or fully Starfleet facilities and such. Media of exchange are hardly some *foreign concept* even if you can in fact live comfortably without ever touching or concerning yourself with 'money.' That's what the post-scarcity means.
Of course one of the reasons the Federation worlds do explore and colonize is for those people that want that kind of challenge or are born to it can end up making more out of less, and that's seen as a noble enough ambition of course. They may still get a lot of Federation support but also tend to be pretty proudly self-sufficient. In their own ways, anyway. Also more likely to need to trade with the neighbors in many cases.
As for 'can you have a phaser rifle,' well, that's not as if a replicator couldn't possibly churn one out but the Federation isn't in the business of making things that destructive generally-available.
I only consider what's on screen canon, myself, in which case transwarp is essentially not mentioned after Star Trek III. However, we see Star Trek introduce a new scale with TNG. I personally assumed that new scale was due to the new transwarp drives all those later ships sported. Obviously, Scotty's sabotage would be quickly discovered and repaired. Excelsior's trials might have been delayed a few weeks, but little more. Hopefully, transwarp had been tested on prototype platforms before investing in a massive, expensive starship.
I've always thought that the Excelsior's Transwarp drive worked, just got renamed to Warp drive. Similarly, in aviation, back in WWI many early fighters had rotary engines. No, not Wankel style rotary engines, but engines that rotated around a central shaft. So it's definitely possible that it is just a reused term.
I'd always heard that the reason they never used the Constitution model was that the physical model was massive and unwieldly for a television production.
I think there were a few reasons why it wasn’t, the size of the model and a fear that it would confuse viewers if the enterprise appeared on screen with, well the enterprise
I think originally warp speed was logarithmic multipliers of the speed of light, but that meant going warp 1 would take years, warp 3 days, warp 6 minutes. So why go less than warp5?
IMO The Transwarp experiment did work but it was a different type of Transwarp to what the Borg use
Here is my take before watching. Nowhere in Star Trek (movies or TV) AFAIK, does it say it was a failure but we can still surmise that since they were still doing experiments in the TNG era, that it was a failure,technically. Here is the thing. The Excelsior may not have achieved transwarp but it did reach something that its engineers and that scientists THOUGHT was transwarp. In reality it was just a vastly superior form of regular warp travel, which had to have been shared since this has to be the reason the warp scale changes in universe and why all other powers in the alpha and beta quadrants use the new scale. So yes, technically it failed to reach transwarp but still was a success in a different way.
EDIT: and ofc, the Excelsior failed to chase after the Enterprise because Scotty sabotaged it. They literally were going to be charged for that but it was dropped as the crew of the Enterprise literally just saved the earth. Odds are if there was no sabotage, the Excelsior would have caught up in no time. Not because of transwarp but because again,just a much faster warp speed. Turns out you are basically saying the same thing as me.
When the jet engine was first used in the air it was expensive dangerous and needed an experienced and slightly crazy pilot to fly it, I don't see any reason why switching from the traditional warp engines to transwarp engines should be any different. Starfleet gave up too easily. It may have been expensive but it would have been also a gamechanger.
The Republic, academy training sjip was destroyed during the breen attack ( constitution class ) she was replaced with a galaxy class uss Republic,
Thanks ,
Then how do you explain warp 13 in All Good Things?
How do you make a failure that of something that doesn't even exist
Its obvoisly the speed, doh warp 1is the speed of light, therefore warp 8 is 8x light speed.
If only it were that simple