Female High School Teacher Sex Offenders | Are they different than male sex offenders?
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- Опубліковано 13 чер 2024
- This video answers questions about female sex offenders and specifically about a type of female sex offender: a female offender that's a high school or elementary school teacher and has a relationship with a student. We see all these examples in the media like Katherine Murray, Stephanie Ragusa, Pamela Rogers, and probably among the most famous would be Deborah LaFave and Mary Kay Letourneau. There are actually hundreds more in the United States and in other countries. I will discuss what we know from the scientific literature about female sex offenders, including those who were high school teachers.
Bunting, L. (2007). Dealing with a problem that doesn’t exist? Professional responses to female perpetrated child sexual abuse. Child Abuse Review, 16(4), 252-267.
Sandler, J., & Freeman, N. J. (2011). Female sex offenders and the criminal justice system: A comparison of arrests and outcomes. Journal of Sexual Aggression, 17(1), 61-76.
Witt, P. H., & Pirelli, G. (2016). Female Sexual Offenders. Criminal Justice Research Review, 17(3), 38-42.
Pflugradt, D. M., & Allen, B. P. (2015). An Exploration of Differences Between Small Samples of Female Sex Offenders With Prepubescent Versus Postpubescent Victims. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 24(6), 682-697.
Johansson-Love, J., & Fremouw, W. (2009). Female Sex Offenders: A Controlled Comparison of Offender and Victim/Crime Characteristics. Journal of Family Violence, 24(6), 367-376.
Christiansen, A. R., & Thyer, B. A. (2002). Female Sexual Offenders: A review of Empirical Research. Journal of Human Behavior in the Social Environment, 6(3), 1.
Klein, J., Rukus, J., & Zambrana, K. (2012). Do Societal Reactions Lead to Increased Experiences of Shame and Strain for Registered Female Sex Offenders? Justice Policy Journal, 9(2), 1-35.
Forbes, W. S., & Harris, M. (2014). Female Sex Offenders: Observed Trends in Wisconsin. Corrections Today, 76(1), 58.
Ferguson, C. J. . cjferguson1111@aol. co., & Meehan, D. C. (2005). An Analysis of Females Convicted of Sex Crimes in the State of Florida. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 14(1), 75-89.
West, S. G., Friedman, S. H., & Kim, K. D. (2011). Women Accused of Sex Offenses: A Gender-Based Comparison. Behavioral Sciences & the Law, 29(5), 728-740.
Pflugradt, D. M. 1. dawn. pflugradt@wisconsin. go., & Allen, B. P. . (2010). An Exploratory Analysis of Executive Functioning for Female Sexual Offenders: A Comparison of Characteristics Across Offense Typologies. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 19(4), 434-449.
Staunton, C., & Hammond, S. (2016). Investigation of the labial photoplethysmograph (LPG) in the idiographic assessment of female sexual interest: its viability in the forensic context.
Vick, J., McRoy, R., & Matthews, B. M. (2002). Young Female Sex Offenders: Assessment and Treatment Issues. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 11(2), 1.
Knoll, J. knollj@upstate. ed. (2010). Teacher Sexual Misconduct: Grooming Patterns and Female Offenders. Journal of Child Sexual Abuse, 19(4), 371-386.
Gakhal, B. K., & Brown, S. J. (2011). A comparison of the general public’s, forensic professionals’ and students’ attitudes towards female sex offenders. Journal of Sexual Aggression, 17(1), 105-116.
TV shows like Riverdale, Pretty Little Liars, Dawson’s Creek, Glee and so many more portray teacher/student relationships as sexy and scandalous, which is so harmful. This trope needs to stop.
Ew in glad i dont watch those, but its disturbing bc I think those shows appeal more to teens than adults, maybe that's just me tho.
You know it's obviously wrong but there is a double standard. And when I was a teenager I knew what I wanted. And I wanted my English teacher from 9th grade who was like 24 and had huge boobies. Also my spanish teacher.
ETBH T
@@MrFartyman44 the victims that women teachers choose are not lustful after them; you should have pretended that you didn't care about their looks but needed extra help with the English/Spanish...
Why don’t we just cancel those shows entirely because they suck anyways
I've recently turned 22 and it's so beyond me how these women could ever consider a 16 year old boy a decent partner. They definitely have predatory motives
Some 16 year olds look older because they’re taller and have put on muscle. That’s just sexual attraction, it doesn’t mean she thinks of him as husband material.
Wondering Spirit+ Yes, but I’m sure a male predator isn’t looking at a female student who’s sexually mature and attractive as ‘wife’ material either.
I'm 22 too and i agree. 16 year olds look nothing like 20+ year olds. So I don't get, why nobody never mentions pedophilia with teacher sex offenders.
Franca Did you actually pay any attention to the video? The body of research would disagree with you on the offenders having predatory motives.
Having an emotionally immature partner gives her more control.
I dont want to know how many boys just dont say anything in fear of getting shamed, ridiculed or just getting the old "i wish i had a teacher like that"
With the Brittany Zamora case some students shamed the victim. What bothers me is that if it was a male they would be deemed a monster and the majority would want to cut the balls off and never see the light of day but with a woman it's basically ok.
Not to mention the times underage boys are basically used and "like" it. Even though it's illegal for an adult to target someone who's underage, quite a few teenage boys still wouldn't mind being exploited by a teacher like that. It's still sexual abuse, because people of that age aren't able to make such decisions. Even though they might enjoy it, hindsight will probably get the better of them years later and they'll still realize they were sexually abused. By then it would be too late to report, or they would deem it unnecessary. I'm sure many cases would go unnoticed because of this.
@@nauseousatom7178 Women are usually not violent in their attempts of physical contact.
@@clayandputtyvideos1647 So that makes it OK?
@@harrygray6659 it does make it somewhat different
I was assaulted by a teenage girl when I was 6 years old. There was violence involved. When I reported it to an adult, I was laughed at and the adult told me that was just experimentation. It was very traumatic for me. From that point on, I knew that she could do whatever she wanted to me and no one would ever stop her.
Thanks for sharing this experience. How frightening to have people say that a sexual attack was not a problem because the attacker was a girl.
as a victim from a female sex offender, THANK YOU. It's absolutely vile seeing women who have committed offenses that RUIN LIVES and they get to walk free because the court thought they were just a pretty lady who got caught up in a mess. No justice, she's a predator.
You are not a victim
Interesting vid. As a female raising a male, it is very concerning to me the bias against boys/men in the different forms of abuse.
Well, since you are raising a male child you have the chance to educate him about boundaries, and to let him know that he should be aware that these things happen and not to accept it.
The thing is that many young males want it (at least the majority, I don't want to generalize), because hormones are flooding their blood and they think and fantasize about sex a lot. And I can say it as a male myself, I even fantasized about having sex with people older than me which would had made it illegal for those people if they had sex with me when I was that young. It isn't that I was some kid with a twisted mind, but If you hear the conversations between males in highschool, thats a lot of what you see, people who were my friends at the time, and who weren't, they just wanted sex, it didn't matter to them if the girl was older, or the same age.
I think the trick to keeping young males from having sex with these older women sex offenders is to acknowledge their feelings and sexual desires, that it is normal about growing up to feel that rush of emotions, but that it is still not okay to act in those emotions with people who are way older than you when you are a teenager
@@marthawoodworth6907 Yes, but as the person NOT in the power position, the responsibility does not lie with him. If she was talking about a daughter, would you say the same thing ( and imply, what I inferred) the same?
@@carlangaz007 girls have those fantasies too. "crushes? " get it? But it doesn't matter, it is still the adult who must put the brakes on such a relationship.
it all starts with the pressumed innocence and victimhood of women, and the pressumed guilt and perpetrator-view on men. The way we look at each other and ourselves enables these kind of things
I am sad to say, in highschool my 15 year old very close male friend was abused by a female teacher. This was in the late 90s & EVERYONE knew, but none of us UNDERSTOOD it was abuse. I refuse to accept no faculty knew, when so many of us students did. I think this has happened WAY more than we realize...
Curious: Did he see it as abuse then? Does he see it as abuse now? And yes, I am referring to the male fantasy stereotype. I just wanted to know how he felt about it.
I think the young people in my creepy sister's classes see it as her having a "teacher's pet", and are likely a bit jealous, I doubt they see it as abuse. I believe in unions, but in many cases, everyone knowing isn't enough to get a teacher fired. She got a talking from a principal once and went to teach at a different school. They can't put hunches and suspicions on an employment record.
There was a young female teacher in my school, and years later, several of my high school classmates mentioned that she was allegedly physical with many male students. This "story" went around at a re-union. A terrible lie towards someone if not true...and sadly sick if true.
For a very long time, it was impossible for a woman to rape a man, according to the lawbook at least. It changed, thankfully.
I named my one of rat Mortimer James. I add the middle name when I’m disappointed with him.
Thanks for a serious, mature, professional discussion of a subject too many people treat as a joke. It's the only such serious discussion I've seen yet in any medium, but I think you may have anticipated a trend that could and should begin sometime soon.
I feel that a large segment of the population has felt that sexual opportunity given to a young male is believed to be a favor to him. Similar to the 'French tutor' stereotype. A "lucky guy" so to speak. If the victim is female then it is not treated as such. A definite bias in thinking.
@@MasterMalrubius
No doubt that's true.
Different boys are likely to respond in different ways, too, depending upon their maturity and confidence.
There's plenty to unpack in this subject. World-wide, Americans have never been known for their mature or enlightened attitudes towards sexuality.
The "age of consent" varies from country to country, too.
@@BlunderCity "Teenage boys are super horny so the notion that he's not getting what he wants seems counter-intuitive to me."
First point: As said in the video, these women tend to go after weaker boys they can control, not after boys who want them. The boy isn't starting or controlling this relationship, the woman is.
Second point: Don't assume the boy wants the teacher. Not all young teachers are attractive, and I certainly won't assume that a rapist teacher is going to be hot.
Assuming that in the moment the boy is "getting what he wants" doesn't mean it won't have harmful repercussions later on. I mean teenagers aren't known for their ability to understand long term consequences. Teenage boys are going through just as sensitive a developmental period as teenage girls are. If you want me to believe it is less harmful for a teenage boy to have a sexual relationship with an adult woman than it is for a teenage girl to have a sexual relationship with an adult man, you will have to show me evidence that boys aren't hurt by this.
@@gideonjones8088 "hese women tend to go after weaker boys they can control, not after boys who want them"
So? Sounds pretty kinky to me, I'm serious, as long as the teacher is hot. I do admit it might be traumatizing if the teacher is very ugly.
"Don't assume the boy wants the teacher. Not all young teachers are attractive"
So what about the cases where the teacher is hot? I think everyone agrees that if the teacher is ugly and the victim is really disgusted it can be very traumatizing, but that's not what we internet people are interested in.
"Assuming that in the moment the boy is "getting what he wants" doesn't mean it won't have harmful repercussions later on. I mean teenagers aren't known for their ability to understand long term consequences. "
What consequences?
@@chengong388 you seem immature and not aware of the long term harmful psychological potential, even if initially desired.
I talked with a group of Native Elders who had no problem disclosing being abused by male preachers in residential school (they were making jokes about it). It wasn't until I asked if they had been abused by the nuns that they all realized they had. They never even thought of it that way...
That's sad
Merri Cat Yeah, the human race can be very twisted. We are also capable of much good.
I think the real interesting question is why they didn't come to that realization. There is a reason for that, and the reason should not be so casually swept aside.
If a person has been wronged in some way, but they don't actually feel wronged, then who has been hurt? I'm not advocating on the side of the nuns here, at all.
But obviously there was a difference. And if that difference matters, it might be a good idea to know why.
Sir Laughs a Lot It is a different form of violation. A young boy is conditioned to want sex from a woman. They are not conditioned to be assaulted by a man. From a purely physical perspective, one form of abuse is also less painful, which is likely less traumatic (at least initially).
Many boys are excited to be taken advantage of by an older woman, only to realize later in life how messed up the situation really was.
Kyle Olin what I’ve seen with the nuns is the boys being punished usually on trump up charges of serious misbehaving. The punishment was some form of sexual power play on them . The damage was immediate and long lasting hidden in their mind and being thinking maybe that’s what they deserved. Plausible deniability
I started teaching at a very young age. When I was 22, I started teaching teenagers that were between 3 to 5 years younger than me. Some of them wanted to date with me and insisted there was no problem because they were about to be legal. In my eyes, that was and still is a big NO NO. Now at 34 I teach adults, some older than me, others younger, bit still, they are my students and there is no way I can look at them differently.
If it's over 18 years old, it's legal
@@abraham8565 no doubt it is legal, but it is not ethical.
This is ethical even if it had been legal. Remember that one teacher who had a relationship with her student and he murdered her husband? They all went to jail....the men are out now but shes still in prison. They did that Nicole Kidman movie about her.
But after the course ended, would you date an age-appropriate *former* student? Many people do, and marry them as well.
@@Brouwer- I agree it’s not ethical. Teachers assess and grade. I don’t think that should be influenced by a romantic relationship. Kind of like how therapists or doctors shouldn’t date their patients or bosses and employees shouldn’t date. I’ve worked in companies that have strict guidelines about it. Some didn’t prohibit it but would transfer one of them to a different branch to avoid conflict or favoritism.
“I wish I had a teacher like that” makes me want to face plant a brick wall repeatedly
Me too :)
and there's soooo much of that in the comments. Why are some men so fucking stupid?
@POOR PIRANO then you’re admitting that only women are capable of knowing when kids are been abused. Honestly I’m starting to think that all the hate women give men these days is totally justified, we’re not even capable of protecting our women and children these days, we allow our women to be sexually assaulted and our children to be abused and in this case the majority are like “well I wish my teacher abused me as a kid.” We’ve become so lazy and apathetic
@Russian Asset Destroyer In Chief, Joe Biden. U don't even know how that would affect you when it hits you
@@minaisfab17 why are you so fucking sexist?
And completely egnore the fact that so many woman belittle men who were abused too.
Yo I have a teacher fetish, Sue me
In my experience, both male and female teacher offenders really believed they were in some kind of deeply emotional relationship with the victim. I believe this has a lot to do with why they don't see themselves as predators and why they don't admit to wrongdoing.
I think they say that field instead of saying, "I'm a sex weirdo."
A boy at my school ended up marrying the female sports teacher. They are still happily married and have kids.
@@realmriot I've seen that happen too, former students marrying young teachers. I think the difference is the same as a difference between age gap relationships and predatory relationships. Age gap relationships are defined by the fact that two people with full faculties, which includes mental clarity and responsibility of ones self, nothing for either to gain in terms of power or position (ie money) and no previous pattern of relationships with that age group. A predatory relationship is when one party consistantly seeks out gratification from a certain age group or class for some kind of gain. So yea, a senior in highschool, I would hope of age, forms a relationship with a teacher, and they naturally progress into a relationship (not grooming, actually dating them and getting to know them), and a responsible adult would make clear boundaries that while they are in the student teacher boundaries, they cannot progress the relationship. While there is any kind of power dynamic between people, there should absolutely not be any relationship.
I was a little girl and,the man told me he loved me and thought i was beautiful. He said we were making love.. which i cant stand that term..he was grooming me..for yrs. He called it love..i call it rape.
@@ldy2hzlft1111 I am sorry you had to ever deal with that. Same here. Manipulitive and disgusting and criminal. So many abusers get away with it over and over again.
I get the feeling you have strong beliefs on this matter, Dr. Grande. I don't blame you. Great topic!
@Danger Bear same lmao
I like how absolutely disgusted he looks during the video despite doing his best to hide it.
When I was in high school in the ‘60’s this went on and we talked about it sometimes. The difference was no one went forward to the authorities. I’m not sure why.
@@shadrach6299 because the police weren't all over the school campus. Back then every school had rumors about it, but it was mostly boys lying about it and trying to seem like they slept with a teacher.
He has strong beliefs on every issue he addresses
Back in highschool I had a young teacher (24-28) hit on me and one other student. Now I know us boys always joked about "getting it on with the hot teacher" which she was attractive, but let me tell you. This was one of the most uncomfortable circumstances in my life. It started with her direct messaging on social media, I was young and didn't think anything of it. She ended up saying some innapropriate things to me in class regarding her "choking" on "something of mine" in class. Another student heard that and reported it. The school ended up having her transfered. They called my parents, my mom was livid. I didn't realize how big of a deal was until I was made to turn over my phone to the administration for them to go though all the messages. For me I think what made it so much more uncomfortable was knowing she was married with an infant child. I'm just glad it didn't go further than it did.
That's horrifying a position of trust for her to be that out there. I am glad someone reported her. Very sorry that happened to you it's scary how much this happens.
Yuck. I'm sorry this happened to you. This must have been a horrible situation for you. Even having had things not go any further, this predatory behaviour can have a massive impact on your sense of self, your view of what women are like and how you feel about trusting people in the future.
sorry it was uncomfortable for u. had it been w/ me i probably would have been alright.
Postpartum psychosis a possibility??
@@jillellen2631 female excuses lmao
As a teacher in a secondary school, I have been sexually harassed and reported it. In my opinion the school didn't deal with it properly ....I said I didn't want to work with him anymore because he made me feel uncomfortable. After complaining for the third time, he was told he wasn't allowed to work with me/ communicate with me. It took 3 attempts for the school to finally listen. Madness!
I'm an elementary school teacher myself in the Netherlands and I know these behaviours between teachers and children do occur.
A teacher has a role model function to their pupils. They are always responsible for any kind of (sexual) behaviour or (love) romance with a minor, because they are the adults in a power position, where the children are dependent of them.
I'm very clear myself in this matter. When proven that sexual offending has been taken place by a teacher she/he should be dismissed for always in their function as a teacher. However giving any kind of psychological help to a minor as well to the teacher is required and should be obligated,.
As said I'm a elementary school teacher and not a high school teacher. A romantic love situation between a high school teacher, male or female, is also still the first responsibility of the adult. The teacher can make a choice to not start any kind of sexual relationship with someone below age eighteen.
If a teacher can't control his/her (sexual) impulses or desires as an adult to his/her pupils the teacher isn't behaving as a responsible adult and is in my opinion not suitable for being a teacher by profession or any other profession where minors are involved.
Thank you doc for the excellent video, professional presented with care as always!
Request; can you talk more about personality disorders and sexual child abuse?
You are quite welcome!! I recorded a video a few days ago on child sexual abuse, which I will release next week.
Agreed. It's like any type of predator who choses their occupation, to get close to their target. Sick.
@
_"hence the scandal surrounding the current French President and his wife."_
Oh please! You're using this issue to play politics?
Highschool boys and elementary school boys are not the same. Men who want to persecute these professors are jealous that they didn't have such professors and they are jeloaus that they can't get women to get sex with them but a high-school boy can. That's what hurts them the most.
He's not "playing politics", he's pointing to a case in France visible to the world.
Mary Kay Letournu (idk now it's spelled) still thinks she did nothing wrong. And when you watch recent interviews with the victim you can tell he wishes he never got into that situation with her. It's so messed up.
i believe this is why it is sO under reported....because the student falls in LOVE and doesnt SEE it as abuse, until it all falls apart, and then maybe over time as they mature they begin to understand who was in control....and it wasnt them.
@@edwhite7475
_"doesnt SEE it as abuse"_
Maybe it's because no one is bale to demonstrate the abuse, they just arbitrarily declare it to be. It's not enough to assert it, you have to demonstrate things.
Now, in this specific case, the guy was 12/13 so people might have a case but in many instances, we're talking about teenagers above the age of consent in the vast majority of countries and US states (15-16). There is no evidence of abuse, it's only asserted. I'd like to remind you that he married he when she was release from prison.
_"understand who was in control"_
An imbalance of power does not imply abuse. Jeez, if we make that a standard, nearly all relationships are de facto abusive. This is nonsense and, in my opinion, it's a corruption of people's judgement due to the pervasive notion of social justice because the philosophy implies that all hierarchies of power are abusive systems of coercion. They're not.
@Lauren Bray - Completely agree with you, he looks disturbed, and like he might have unresolved issues. It disgusts me even more now that I have nephews who are 12 years old (the age Vili Fualaau was when she had sex with him). They divorced last year so we’ll see what happens with his future.
And what even more disgusting, is the way the media treated their 'wedding' like a special event. We watched female news anchors gushing and giddy as they dedicated segments to this...'wedding'. No mention of her criminal actions. Instead, she was praised.
She's evil. I can't stand her.
You would not want your child anywhere near a woman who is that screwed up.
crimony but what does the adolescent male want?
@@seanhagan1435 it doesnt matter what they want. There is a reason minors cant consent.
@@seanhagan1435 just watch the fucking video and learn something
I find this spot on as a female survivor of sexual abuse. The only way from victim mentality for me was getting sober and turning my will and my life over to Jesus Christ!! It’s been over 30 years of using the tools God gave me and it works! Thank you Doctor Grande!
The term "teacher lover" is problematic on its own.
The term "problematic" is problematic, used by Karens to shame and control other people for the crime of speaking in a normal, straightforward manner.
Just because you type something and post it online does not make it so. You have to indicate "why" and support your contention. Otherwise, you might as well have not even bothered.
@@aaronjsolomon Ha! Friigin Karens.
I cringed so bad when he said that.
teacher/lover/offender is what he actually says
It occurs to me that this has been a largely underreported phenomena until relatively recently.
@@kwahujakquai6726
But you haven't demonstrated the abuse. You have merely stated that it occurred.
@@BlunderCity but if it actually occurred, it is abuse.
The research, and my experience as a late-20s woman indicate that NO IT'S NOT NORMAL TO BE ATTRACTED TO AND PURSUE HIGH SCHOOL BOYS. High school boys were barely tolerable when I was their age! It is predatory. The emotional maturity/cognitive abilities between a teenager and an adult, particularly in a position of authority, is very obvious. I hope one day people will stop cracking jokes about teenage boys being seduced by their teachers as if they're living out a ''hot for teacher'' fantasy, as if being sexually assaulted by someone who was entrusted to care for them is ''lucky.''
_"I hope one day people will stop cracking jokes about teenage boys being seduced by their teachers as if they're living out a ''hot for teacher'' fantasy, as if being sexually assaulted by someone who was entrusted to care for them is ''lucky.''"_
But what you have to understand is that those comments exist for a reason. it's not just a silly thing that people say, it's a thing because it's commonplace for teenage boys to enjoy their relationships with their older teacher. Cliches always originate from some kind of reality.
@@BlunderCity But the comparison should between teenage boys and teenage girls. It is common place for teenage girls to enjoy their relationships with older teachers. The real difference here is perceived agency. The difference carries on into adulthood. For example, consider a situation where someone wakes up to find a stranger in bed whom they hooked up with while heavily intoxicated. Of the man we are more likely to think he needs to drink more responsibly. Of the woman we are more likely to think she was taken advantage of.
@@BlunderCity this is real fucking disgusting. can you say the same for female student - male teacher? lets see what hoops you can jump through.
When you said that these women are rare I was surprised because this happened at my high school. I guess my experience isn’t universal though, ha. She was the wife of a police officer. He was the one who was assigned to patrol our school, and after the whole thing came out the cop asshole harassed this poor boy even though he was the clear victim. I’m fairly certain he made verbal threats and pretty much stalked him around town. It’s crazy to think back to.
With position comes power and with power comes abuse. Oh, and all cops are scum.
Your last comment is useless.
@@maidenmarian1 "cop asshole" in your own text but my response is "useless" ???? When your on a social media site and text such stories and comments such as you did don' t be surprised when you can get a wide range of responses that you and or others will either agree or not agree with.
Happened actually in mine too recently. Not rare at all. This man is as dull as his personality. Just a textbook of regurgitated knowledge.
Rare in comparison to male offenders consider the low detection rate and underreporting are factors here. Sex offences in general are under reported even when perpetrated by males so it shouldnt be surprising the official stats show this way.
Were the female offenders in your schools charged and prosecuted? If not, they're invisible to researchers.
Thank you for addressing this; I was sexually assaulted at the age of 5/6 by a “fill in” baby sitter who was 15.
In all likelihood, she was also being assaulted in the home or school. But I was not her only child victim, and I didn’t have the courage to say anything.
I hope she stopped after us.
i have had many of my male friends talk jokingly about situations with females which if you switched the gender would have been sexual harassment
But then so often it goes back into "Ha, ha! Lucky guy!" I wish that would stop.
It is a little tricky bc Ive seen first hand teen students actively flirting with teachers when I was in highschool. I think she was early twenties maybe. The student was actually showing her his favorite position or some shit. She didn't reciprocate but she shouldn't have allowed such display at all.
Of course it still would be a crime if she did bc she is the responsible adult, but hypothetically would an enthusiastically interested teen (male or female) be traumatized? When I was a teen I was interested in adults but didn't act on it. i was also fondled by an adult I wasn't interested in. There is a world of difference between how those situations feel. Im not trying to argue against statutory rape laws, Im interested in a psychological way.
Because of physical strength I think. If a woman jumps a man, he can push her off. If a man jumps a woman, she can’t push him off so it’s scary for her but just a bit annoying for a man.
They talk jokingly no doubt, because they didn't happen to feel particularly harassed. Just as girls to men trans men pose no particular threat to men (compared to trans women to women) it is not at all the same thing and I don't agree with treating it identically. I think at least, it should be treated on a case by case basis. For sure I'm on board with the whole idea of a betrayal of a public trust - that a teacher is in a position of authority and therefor possesses power which can be abused. That part, yes.
There is often a whole lot of stuff going on that is in an entirely different area than a male teacher abusing a female student.
(It gets even squirrelier when it involves gay or lesbian encounters, which do happen.)
If a certain kind of boy were to have a "Summer of '42" kind of experience, I don't know that this can be categorized in exactly the same way as traumatic, damaging or abusive in any way. We're a curious society. We haul out wagon loads of "open mindedness" that requires people to believe (or at least accept) falsehoods all the time, and yet we cherry pick endlessly which things we condemn.
I'm well aware of how female teachers get publicly shamed. Even though male teachers' lives are destroyed by the same indictment - there is a particular and peculiar brand of viciousness employed for the females only.
As if...........men are expected to do this. It is what men do. (Not.)
But women? Never!
@Hunter Lee Makes sense. The dynamic is a little different in both cases. Although in terms of female high school teachers relating to underage boys i don't see how the power position naturally rests with the boys.
So many of these female teacher that abuse children, are beautiful. They could be with many men that are close to their age. The fact that they choose young boys shows that they are predators. They like situations where they are in control, where they are taking sexual advantage of inexperienced males. Or of males that are under their care. It's gross, and I'm sick of seeing people make stupid excuses for it.
wow, so basically they mimic the behaviour of like.. every other male in our society.
@@daemia9472 I wouldn't say that.. But men who do the same thing are also predators. Honestly your comment kind of came out of left field.. But yeah, men are more likely to be that way. Like the guys in their twenties that date high school girls..
Nerd Stark an adolescent girl is not “sexually a child” either. They typically reach reproductive maturity in their mid teens, sometimes earlier. So what’s your point?
Daemia always playing the victim. Even in circumstances where the woman is not victim. SMH
@@maxm7584 And I would allow it if a 16 year old girl aggressively insisted on wanting to have sex with an older man. I might have advised against it but for me morality is simple: Don't do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you; If I was a 16 year old boy and wanted to have sex with my teacher, I would be very very very pissed if I had to be dragged into court because everyone assumed that I am a victim.
Very interesting. Yes, I remember watching the Mary Kay Letourneau interview recently and she kept trying to make the point that Vili had been in charge at the beginning of the affair, even though he was 12, maybe even younger. She really kept pushing for him to admit that and he even finally said, "This is getting weird." I don't watch all these female offenders but I know I've noticed with her that she likes to play the little girl victim - like put herself even on an emotional level lower than he was, yet then she has moments of biting control. I have no idea what that is called but must be crazy to live with. It did seem like in the interview that Vili was sort of sad and perhaps has grown up and now realizes what happened to his childhood and teen years. He was denied all of that. Thank you for the informative video.
12? 12?! Ugh
I saw that interview. She plays the ultimate victim. I don't know how Villi could stand being with her. She picked him when he was a child because he was vulnerable just like male predators. I always felt bad for him
By The Way... They are married now. I saw them at The Seattle Center after they got married going for a walk.
When the kid was a teen she was in jail.
It’s a psychological power play. The woman creates a emotional manipulation and the child wanting to play the part of a man... defends her. Plays the protector role not recognizing that he is one falling into the predators trap... enjoying being treated differently and not recognizing the truth of the situation because they are not emotionally equipped nor psychologically developed yet. This is why the woman is interested... she is powerful and knowledgeable. She is capable and in control of the situation. Even as she role plays being submissive she in control. He is conditioned into obeying her cues and punished with drama and emotional manipulation and psychological manipulation for not being compliant. So she is topping him from the bottom thus ... his confusion “this is getting weird” statement... she wanted him to defend her and protect her from the opinions of the public. He was brought up in this environment... so it has a cultural dimension to its structure and strength over his life. He wants to escape from the situation... but it’s all he has known and it’s created a rift between him and a normal life. It’s Washington State and she would probably get custody of their children. Even though she was on parole and became pregnant with his child after going to prison for molesting him. In his mind she created a codependency that he could not escape from... in the same way that the public school system creates a powerful commonality of American culture. His development was altered by her actions and psychological emotional manipulation into her wishes. I would not be surprised if he snaps one day because of the psychological abuse she has inflicted on him. I hope that he gets help and escapes when his children are old enough... but she will use that little girl victim role and emotional manipulation forever if she can get away with it. She is a monster. I know the type.
Sadly, this occurred in my family. We lived in a nice middle class suburb at the time. My son, Paul was a happy, well adjusted child, and a straight A student. When Paul was 19, his older brother mentioned to my husband and myself that Paul was currently in a relationship with one of his former teachers, a junior high teacher. I gently confronted Paul and he said he would talk about it with me if I would promise to not get her in trouble. I did promise, and Paul said that he met Mrs. Sexual Offender when he was in the 7th grade, as she was one of his teachers. He was 13 years old. He said she came on to him sexually and he fell in love with her. She was married and 35 years old. This relationship continued thru high school. We began to notice that Paul was not dating any girls his age, or making friends with girls from school or any of the girls in the youth group of our church. Yet he spoke of girls in an "adolescent," normal attractive way. His brother assured us that he was not homosexual and that they talked of girls all the time. One day when Paul was 19, he was invited to Mrs. Sexual Offender's home. While eating at her kitchen table, her husband arrived. He was outraged and Paul left. I don't know if her husband divorced her or not. There was some talk of it later, so I think that if they split, Paul may have a burden of guilt over that. At this point he told his brother what was happening. When I spoke with Paul he also said that he was majorly bullied all thru school, but never told anyone, because he was afraid the bullying would get even worse. My heart broke.
Paul is now 35 and is mentally messed up beyond belief. By choice, he has been in therapy for some time. He later divulged to us that he started shooting heroin in the 9th grade and has continued in his struggle against it even now. Paul has no relationships with women, except for Mrs. Sexual Offender. He said recently that they are still in touch, even though he had left the state at age 22, by his own choice. I did keep my promise and did not report her.
Paul has spoken of suicide many times. Our hearts ache for him as he was victimized all thru school by one person or another and carries such a heavy burden of those memories and their effect on his present day life. He is so damaged, and the the way he expresses that I cannot speak of here. He is such a good and kind person. And is hurting so badly inside.
Your story is tragic. In fact, I now have to wonder about some of the symptoms of such abuse ; whether they played a part in the unhappiness and dysfunction of certain men I have known, both as friends and lovers, including my brother.
I am so sorry for the pain your son and by extension your family are undergoing. As a female survivor of long term childhood sexual abuse, it is a daily struggle. I'm glad your son was able to talk to you about his abuse; I've been shut down by my parents when I tried to tell them what happened. Knowing you are in his corner provides him with more strength and support than you might imagine. Also, don't blame yourself for not knowing what was happening to your son. Even as a very young child I was very good at hiding my emotions and what was happening, due to threats and manipulation from my abuser. I am glad your son chose counseling, as have I. Hopefully one day we can all heal. Stay strong.
I think you should report her and try and convince paul that it is not his fault. Maybe get professional support to get through yourself as well as paul. Remember not reporting her gives her the opportunity to do it to someone else.
@@janeepooley While I agree with the therapy part of your statement, no one should take the decision to report away from an now adult victim. One, it once again takes control away from the victim and two, only the victim can decide if and when or if they are emotionally ready to expose their experience to law enforcement and as a byproduct, the general public. While, I understand the desire to protect future victims that burden shouldn't be placed on a past victim.
I’m not trying to sound cruel or inappropriate. It sounds like there is a lot of trauma bonding going on. The amount of damage the offender caused through “grooming” could be unmeasurable. A few years ago someone made a bunch of flyers with a couple pictures of a offender and a paragraph detailing what she had done. It include the time period, the school address, and family’s social media information. Someone kept posting them around town periodically. I think it was a smart and creative way of out the offender.
This matches the experience I had with a male teacher when I was in high school. The rides to and from school, grooming, parental trust, peer estrangement and emotional confiding were as mentioned here. He was married but said he had a lot of anger towards women for rejecting him. Among other parallels you mention. I really appreciate how clearly you say that it is abusive. Thanks for this video.
I always got the feeling - especially from the highly publicized cases - that the female teachers were very emotionally immature so they actually may really connect to young boys on an intellectual and emotional level?. there was one case - sorry cannot remember the name - but when the teacher was arrested she couldn't stop talking about how '' little '' she was and put on a disturbing childish voice. So i wonder how many of these teachers have stunted emotional growth, and they cant seem to get the relationship they need in the adult world...
alot may romanticize teen romance in their heads or want to relive the teen romance they had when they were in high school., maybe they peaked at high school and they never grew as people beyond that. I'm sure every case is different though. just spitballing here.
I hope this gets studied more seriously. People seem to make light of these cases. I'm sure they wouldn't if the more famous cases had more unattractive teachers doing the abusing.
thanks for the videos Dr Grande.. going through them in ''Lockdown''
:)
Then I think that same line of thought could be applied to the male teachers as well.
Stefan Rubayiza Wrong
@@_sol.invictus__ That was exactly what I was thinking, but it concerns a certain subgroup of perpetrators. Not all are the same. But I worked in the office of a clinic that treated male perpetrators. There was indeed a group that seemed childlike in behaviour.
whereas the teacher just "gets caught up in the moment" or is actually a predator? though i have heard of teachers actually marrying their students
@@luvlgs1 Marrying your victim doesn't make the relationship more healthy..
A fascinating but difficult topic that Dr Grande handled so professionally. I think this is a crime that needs more attention. I have met a few men that have a history of sexual abuse by females, including a relative. This is when they were children. I also met a victim who was well into adulthood. He was drugged by an older woman. He was really devastated but unfortunately, none of his male friends took it for what it was... a rape. Is this becoming more prevalent, or are we just unable to ignore it any longer? Still, thinking of female sex offenders is harder for me to accept then male sex offenders for some reason.
All peoples, whether male or female, are capable of doing horrifying things of every sort. I do see why the male of most species tend to be more aggressive due to their own hormone influence. But the personal bias, that all women are passive victims in all situations, is a common teaching of ancient religious doctrine. It has taught over our evolution, that all women are of lesser value, have less understanding, less ability to function, and have less responsibility. This is all very sadly untrue!!
@@BlunderCity Excellent reply.
@Jennifer Boehm
What the hell does evolutionary biology got to do with what you say? The story of hunter gatherer societies is anthropology. Evolutionary biology is the study of adaptive traits.
The problem is that you're looking at things with 21st century eyes, which is pretty much what everyone does the days and why no one understands history. It's this inability to position events in their rightful historical context. 50.000 years ago, mating wasn't like a Tinder date. Hard as it may seem, it was a little wilder. The notion that women and children did not rely on men for survival and protection is laughable.
_"It takes a village to raise a child, and nuclear families are several hundred people short."_
You seem to have this idea of hunter gatherer tribes as massive groups of people. Not so, most tribes consisted of the extended family and the few large tribes that existed made up dozens of people at the most. So several hundreds short? Nah, that's just not true.
I hate to break it to you but there were no villages before civilisation, the appearance of villages is precisely what civilisation is.
To claim that civilisation "tore apart our extended families" is even sillier. On the contrary, the birth of civilisation (the neolithic) marked the beginning of a Golden Age for the extended family. Up to the mid 20th century and for 12.000 years, it was by far the most common type of family units. The appearance of the nuclear family did not destroy the extended family, it decentralised it. What destroyed the extended family was second wave feminism although it also introduced the notion of recomposed families (fractured family units merging with other fractured units). But what these generally do is recompose the nuclear family, not the extended family.
There is nothing unnatural about what has happened to kinship until the last 50 years. What is unnatural about civilisation, from an evolutionary point of view, is the the shift from nomadic to sedentary. That has nothing to do with kinship, it marks a new form of human organisation, centered around agriculture and production.
I don't know if my understanding of hunter gatherer societies "suck" but yours screams of the nonsensical trend that has appeared recently, one that tends to idealise hunter gatherer societies. It's obviously an anthropological view that appeals to feminists because hunter gatherer societies appear more egalitarian when looked at with 21st century eyes. But the real reason they were more egalitarian has nothing to do with the family, just that larger groups (and civilisation produces larger groups, not smaller ones as you seem to imply) crystallises hierarchies of competence, which is the source of human inequalities.
I won't comment on pregnant women being fortunate in hunter gatherer societies, that's just way too moronic.
@@BlunderCity Unfortunately, the vast majority of people, including those who mock creationists, are way too stupid to understand evolution.
BlunderCity average group was about 250 people. What the person said about relying more on the community than just one man is most certainly true. There’s tons of evidence for this in the fossil and archeological record. Obviously they weren’t saying that it was like a tinder date, that’s you strawmaning them, but relationships and such did work differently from now, from 100 years ago, from even 1000 years ago, and this most certainly varied from group to group but there were general trends. If a woman was raped and got pregnant in a hunter gatherer society, dying from not being able to take care of herself was not really a prevalent issue, now maybe being accused of being promiscuous or something depending on the rules of their culture and being hurt because of that in some fashion might have occurred.
Thank you for breaking down these myths. This information is badly needed in the community
This isn't rare. Most males I know experienced this, they just usually don't see it as abuse.
I know right?
The more dysfunctional the "relationship," the more likely it is to be revealed.
True
Inconsistent parental child interactions.
Can you discuss more about this and the association with personality disorders?
Yes!!! Agreed
I'd love to see a video on this
Can you talk about child on child sexual abuse and it’s effects on both children as well as the implications behind it as well as how it differs from “playing doctor” or “body exploration”? I haven’t seen a lot of research on it and I would like your opinion on it if it’s possible.
Dr Grande. One of my daughters experienced this injury. Child on child sex abuse. It would be so helpful to know how I can help my daughter (she disclosed this abuse just a couple of years ago) who is now an adult and who suffers from serious physical issues that I suspect are resulting from unhealed trauma. I suppose you’re familiar with Bessel van der Kolk’s book “The Body Keeps The Score.” Thank you for your work.
Kid on kid diddling is a tremendously serious issue. Typical it’s males that are a few years older then the victim doing the diddling. Knowledge on this would be greatly appreciated. I’ve been victimized my self and I’m currently getting help. I let it eat me up for years.
Yes , this would be an interesting and important topic.
I’m sure a lot of people would find it really beneficial
This is probably the most common type of sexual abuse. I've seen it as an adult and I've experienced it as a child.
That would be incredibly beneficial to hear what he has to say about it, I honestly feel that this was part of what caused me to go after older guys so I wasn't the one pushing sexual behaviour on those to young or straight to actually want and be able to consent.. also kind of ironically because I was on my own from like 13 and working full time and renting instead of school and living with family that I would be predatory or inapropriate/bad influence even making friendships with people my age and only just starting to feel equal to those my age in life style but not experience at 24. Yet it took me till maybe 21- 23 to really see how wrong it is and still not sure if that means I have to see every experience as rape and every guy a predator
Thank you so much for this video, Dr. Grande. You are so right on every point you made. Thank you for also including the fact that the parents are also groomed in order to gain access to the victim. I love how you are not afraid to talk about even the most difficult topics, and always do so in a calm, scientific way. I am so very glad I found your channel, and forever grateful for the work you are doing.
This certainly is not a joke.
I actually know a high school teacher who attends my AA group like this. Im sure she hasn’t been called out. But I’ve watched her with students who attend AA That clearly are not emotionally developed and struggling with addiction. She sits close.
Holds hands.
Wears provocative clothes that really enhance her breasts.
If they youth speaks. She is extra sympathetic and vocal.
I could be wrong.
But ive felt like shes grooming this wayward teen for some time now.
ThankYou for addressing this.
I was wondering about this topic as well. 😁
Report to principal
Predators do exist in AA, the same as anyplace else, maybe more. This stands to reason when you consider the kinds of trouble that alcoholics often get into, including criminal behavior. AA and its principles have unquestionably helped thousands of people, but that doesn't mean everybody at the meeting has good intentions. There is a known phenomenon called "13th stepping" when a person joins a meeting, claims many years of sobriety, and then looks for romance/sex with a newcomer. Now, AA advises no new romantic relationships for the first year; but a newcomer is emotionally vulnerable and not yet able to think straight. I don't know how to advise you, but maybe this will help.
AwwwSweetieDarling
No way.there are no governing bodies. And i didn’t ask for your direction or anyone elses. So thanks.
B.I. MacDonald why wouldn’t you report her to some authority??
@@littleympe2570 there are no authority figures in AA.
Lots of ppl go to aa meetings.
Its not easy.
ITS AA! No saints in the room.
No proof of this happening in an active way.
Just the feeling i got. Observing this
Im not the only one in the room seeing and hearing this. Whats ti tell. Everybody sees it happening not just me.
That includes the group chair. We are there to focus on ourselves.
And staying sober.
Thank you for talking about this. So many people are under incorrect assumption that boys are always willing.
So sad.
As a parent that is raising a little boy I appreciate this video. Thanks, I feel that it's good to have an idea of the warning signs in my head well before he gets to the age I'd need to be most alert for these kinds of predators. I often enjoy your videos but found this one to be especially helpful as there's significantly less information out there about what to watch out for when it comes to female offenders in general!
The female aggressor is minimized in our culture and that has always bothered me. I think abuse thrives bc we have these beliefs that women are not abusers. I've talked to men that were abused by a babysitter or family friend. Of course they were unreported. They admitted to me they became depressed and both of them had drug/alcohol problems, they felt stemmed from the unresolved issues. It angers me to see how far our society will go in denying these truths that anyone can be an abuser regardless of gender.
But the reason why it's unreported is because teenager boys usually enjoy the experience so there is no drive to report any of it. I'm not saying it always happens that way but I think it's what's going on the majority of the time. I know that women doing illegal sexual stuff to men is not "rare", it's actually very prevalent. It happened to me with two different women when I was 15 and 16 and we all know people who reported similar experiences. That shows to me that it's far from rare. But guys don't report it because most don't feel the need to do so.
You have to consider yourself a victim to report something as a crime. It's a necessary condition.
@@BlunderCity or at the very least, to recognize that there was a wrongdoing on the other person's part. you can witness a crime and report it, without considering oneself the victim.
This. My first sexual abuse by a female happened when I was 6 or 7 by my female babysitter.
@@BlunderCity i remember the george lopez show had a show about this, the character angie was the only one who acknowledged the hypocrisy of people stating a female sex offender is ok cause "boys like it" only when george saw his son who due to his misplaced concept try to have sex with the female sex offender with his shirt off he realized his point of view was not only contradictory but extremely dangerous....and that was in 2007 ....gotta give george and the show's writers some respect for acknowledging that
south park the cartoon also mocked this mindest and did a few episodes on the hypocrisy of female sex offenders
@@BlunderCity some wome enjoy the experience to dude.
Let's be honest.
Had a great deal of unwanted attention from one of my high school teachers. Made for a long year. I would never be alone with her. Never so glad for a school year to end.
Is the term teacher-lover used in the research literature? It seems like an odd term to use and almost plays into those ideas that female offences are different than those of their male counterparts. I think of what it would be like to use the same kind of language in a different scenario like uncle-lover relationship... it's pretty creepy.
Rebecca Beale I believe Dr Grande was speaking from the point of view of the female abuser's mindset; not his own.
Rebecca Beale I believe Dr Grande was speaking from the point of view of the female abuser's mindset; not his own.
Agreed! Very inappropriate terminology!
Maybe my thinking is warped by loneliness or something, but I really don't see this particular category as being the same as other sex offenders. It might not be "healthy behavior", but if they don't view their targets as "victims", and it actually is consensual, I don't think they deserve prison, that can easily ruin someone's life - probation and treatment is enough.
@@h3rteby, One of the basics of a student/teacher sexual relationship, is that there is NO way that a consensual relationship can occur because the student is always in a dependent position to the teacher. A sexual offense is partially defined as the victim not consenting to the behavior, and in this circumstance, the child can NEVER consent.
Whether the teacher/offender considers the child a victim is beside the point; the child in this circumstance is ALWAYS a victim.
Superb information; thank you! I remember reading some research (quite some time ago) about some cognitive distortions sex offenders commonly engage in and victim blaming was one of them.
Did you see the more recent Barbara Walters’ interview with Mary Kay Letourneau (the second of two I believe)? Ms. Letourneau shared an interesting perspective about her young victim being assertive and/or persistent in his advances towards her. I have seen video footage (during some mental health training I participated in) of many male offenders blaming their victims who were extremely young girls in the same, distorted fashion. Best to you Dr. Grande. 🌳
It depends on the culture as well I guess. I think this is the case with the french President ! He was 15, his teacher ( now wife ) was 38-9. He's 2 years younger than her kids ! So they say he started dating her when he was 19 ( but knew her since 15).. She divorces and marries him. Very creepy ! But in France no one talks about it - it seems. :))
We joke about it.
In France we tend not to judge the private life of others. We see it at their business. But we do joke about it. France is also quite patriarcal, so the idea that a teacher in love with a student is abuse, is not yet part of the culture.
She is a cover. He is gay, imo.
Funny how you're so quick to moralise the whole situation when they're relationship has lasted longer than the vast majority of marriages. I'm far more worried about self-appointed Guardians of Morality like yourself than a woman marrying a guy half his age.
Yes it is creepy
"Teacher/lover" is TERRIBLE name for this type of criminal.
This video is at least a year old and I didn't check the over 1K comments to see if someone else said this.
But I just had to.
The word "lover" shouldn't be in the description of any predatory criminal. A male preying on high school students would never be called a "teacher/lover!" Even if HE thinks that's what he is.
I'm middle-aged woman, btw. And I think all criminals should be called criminals. Variants of the word "love" shouldn't be anywhere near them. Come up with another name for this "type."
Exactly.
My 10th grade English teacher, who was young, very attractive, drove a hot car, wore miniskirts and sheer blouses, and married (for the 3rd time) put much time and effort into grooming me. Fortunately I was scared to death of her, immature, not interested in girls/women, and another teacher noticed what was going on. She became abusive in response to my rejecting her. I was removed her class at that other teacher's request but had to endure her "if looks could kill" scowls every time we passed in the hall. No real harm done, from what I can tell, but definitely a predatory behavior.
It's actually quite "normal" for dysfunctional women to behave sexually just as dysfunctional men do. I think a lot of this is about impulse control, which is really what addiction (sexual, etc.) is all about. Just like a compulsive overeater unconsciously reaches for a candy bar, so a sex addict or predator reaches for a person who is, for them, a sex object. And I think that's the operative word, now that I've (surprised myself) written it. Others are "objects" to offenders.
All of your videos are so clear cut and straight to the point, with literature further explored & sourced. Your content is a gift to UA-cam! When you mentioned this typology being a form of age regression - this makes a lot of sense. It seems as though some of these types either cannot relate to or trust men their age and be comfortable with them, and so seek emotional (which leads to infatuation/sexual) intimacy from a "safe" source.
Another perspective - when I was in HS, I remember a prominent case being in the news, and the majority of boys in my classes hyped up the victim and didn't see the problem. I think this common thought process from teens makes them more vulnerable to this abuse.
This is very insightful and a good mix of of compassion and understanding both for victims and offenders. I’m glad he pointed out that female sex offended are minimized because they are, and a whole swath of victims are thrown to the wolves when people don’t take women seriously. I am also on the side that if they can be helped then both male and female offenders should be rehabbed, especially since recidivism is lower here than other crimes.
Not discounting victims because their age or the age and sex of their abuser is a good message to get out there.
This is so gross. I’m a 34 year old woman and even if a guy is in his early 20s I feel like he is a little kid and I feel so uncomfortable if he comes onto me, I can’t get passed it! I can FEEL the age gap!!
Thank you Dr Grande. Can't believe how well you covered that considering the topic. Great job. thanks again it was very interesting and educational.
You are quite welcome!
Excellent information Dr. Grande! Way to bring more awareness to this most misunderstood subject matter!!
Great, as usual -- particular kudos with such a tough topic. I applaud your ability to speak strongly about the power differential and developmental significance of even a relatively small age gap early on (worked with teens in residential Tx at 21 -- all kinds of boundaries difficult, but crucial to their recovery, and my sanity! 😬). At the same time, holding compassion for perpetrators so valuable -- definitely a group with high victimization profiles of their own, and their recovery a huge part of reducing future harm....
Great video. Female teachers can also get all these manipulative techniques into play while falling short of any actual physical touching. I wonder if this manipulative, intimate but non-physical relationship isn't more common
It happened to me, but I was not a minor anymore. But I was severely delayed in my sexual development and maturity of my identity. I experienced it as an emotionally intimate relationship with an insane power imbalance. I've also seen her doing it with other "damaged" young men. Even her own son. An inappropriate level of emotional intimacy, a kind of sensual "mothering" that keeps the young men as boys and hinder their maturing into young, individual men.
"So,... to frame this psychodynamically...". I love when my vocabulary gets that tingly jolt as it expands. Thanks, Doc! ☺️
Excellent job! As a new therapist, I worked for 3 years with convicted sex offenders (all men). At one point, I asked my supervisor about female perps. She said "It's under-reported. I asked "Why?" She said "... the victim's dependency upon the perpetrator." Thanks for de-normalizing acceptance of young female teachers over adolescent males. One thing that all the convicted felons had in common was the wording on their conviction/sentencing. Contained within were the words "...COMMITTED BY A PERSON IN A POSITION OF TRUST!" Let that sink in, everyone! Trust is a very important word in the scheme of development! Many Thanks, Dr. Grande!
You are hands down one of my favorite ppl to hear speak of psychology. Your videos are exceptional & so thorough, consice and well spoken. Not once do you say "umm" or hesitate. It's like you have a plethora of information right on the surface at any given moment
Really interesting topic. My first thought when you said that the prevalence was low, was "It's probably waaaay under reported." Great in depth talk about the myths and also the underlying psychological issues perpetrators experience. It's an area people tend to avoid and wash their hands of because of the feelings against perpetrators of sexual assault.
I remember a while back listening to a program where they interviewed survivors of similar abuses. One was a young woman who'd been abused by a camp counselor I believe it was and a man who'd had a fairly long-term abusive "relationship" with a teacher.
I believe it was the man who said that he'd fantasized about being with the teacher for some time, that the abuser seemed caring throughout their contact and never seemed manipulative, and that they'd pressed for a physical "relationship" but that it did a great deal of damage to him despite it all.
The woman said that she'd also had a crush on the counselor and felt that they were in an equal relationship but didn't realize til several years down the road that they were being abused and the facade slipped and trauma surfaced.
Most of their stories were very similar.
It was very telling about how these situations play out. How the young are manipulated in extremely subtle ways that are very difficult to pick up on. How the abuser doesn't see it as abuse at all. The complete and total one-sided power dynamics at play in different positions even when the age gap is small. The dependency fostered to the point that the victim is destroyed when the abuser attempts to end the "relationship". How it can be just as devastating as other forms of abuse. It was heavy.
One other thing that stood out with all of the stories was that the age difference between survivors and predators was generally very minimal. It seemed like it was a pretty nuanced and less than universal set of complex circumstances that made the difference from power/authority to the survivor being in a vulnerable point in life. In one case I think it was only a 3yr difference but it was an admired person in a position of authority that took advantage of someone in a pretty unhappy, unhealthy and unstable point in a life that had been anything but good to them.
It's rough. I had a couple situations in my teens where I was probably taken advantage of. It just never really became an issue for me. But I can easily see how it can go from fantasy fulfillment to nightmare. We desperately need to improve how we deal with these things and it all starts with education and trying to create a culture that cares more about science and understanding than tradition and bigotry.
Was this program on youtube? Could you by any chance remember what it was called or where you heard it? Great comment, by the way.
I think this is one of the most compassionate, empathetic, and best comments I've ever seen on the internet!! Thank you
I really think we need to show more empathy for the abusive ones in these circumstances, I know it's not a popular suggestion but I generally find that understanding people on a human level is the best way to help them, and in these cases helping them doesn't just help them but all of their potential victims that will be protected if the predatory behavior is stopped early. A lot of the time people like this know they're wrong but because we portray predators a certain way (even the word predator contributes) they won't associate their behavior with that group even when it seems so obviously predatory. I know this from personal experience as a friend of mine entered a relationship with a 14 year old when she was 18 that myself and a few other people had to step in and stop. She was seriously struggling with her mental health and I really think that she only came out of it okay because she realised people were still going to support her even if she admitted fault.
You had me until the end, what does this have to do with science and tradition?
Thank you Dr. Grande! this is the topic that I wanted you to analyze and help me understand the sickness behind these teachers and their victims young students
Wow! This was really interesting. A situation happened like this in my high school with a guy in my class. It didn't come out until a couple of years after graduation though, when everything finally when his parents discovered that the teacher was pregnant with his baby. I can't remember how old she was, but she was a younger teacher. An assistant teacher, I believe, for students with learning disabilities. The student was probably a year or two older than the rest of us since he had failed a couple of times, and appeared even older than that due to steroids he took for football and what not. His slightly older age and appearance didn't make it right or any better though. And to think that she was awlays with the kids with disabilities.... learning and otherwise. Still sickens me to this day.
I don't know her story, but my crazy sister was decidedly unpopular in school, nice enough looking, but so messed in the head, she wasn't good enough looking for people to see past her personality. Once she became a high school teacher, she preyed on the "popular" boys, also liked talking baby talk. Making up for her past I guess. Haven't talked to her in a decade, she makes me sick.
Thanks for this video, perfect deliver as always. All victims deserve to be heard and offenders to be treated as such.
@@c4dtuterials watch the video -.- that is explained there
This was part of our required professional development courses. Thanks for providing some supplementary information.
Your comments, Dr. Grande, about sex offense are illuminating. Thank you for a different take on the subject beyond "these people are monsters".
Thanks again, Dr. Grande. I have never understood this type of behaviour. Your video has been most useful in educating me.
What a great video, I absolutely love it ! Thank you so much for discussing this difficult issue in such a thorough manner.
Modern society really needs to work towards a more realistic rhetoric, where everyone is clear that female abusers are just as much of an issue as male abusers. We need to take abuse reports by males much more seriously.
But does it make sense to treat men and women equally when they are clearly different? To me, the willingness to strictly equate sexual misconduct by men and women is a sign of how everyone has been indoctrinated in the Church of Gender Equality. The dogma of that religion is that men and women are equal (whatever that means and no one seem to bother about the meaning of words) and you do not question that truth. Anyone who does that commits some kind of blasphemy.
The problem with this religious view of the world is that men and women are fundamentally different. Not superficially, fundamentally and everything derives from the fact that women can give birth, men can't. The consequences are:
- Men and women have different hormones: estrogen for women and testosterone for men. Estrogen is the nurturing hormone and testosterone is the dominance hormone.
- These hormones and other biological differences mean we act differently and feel different emotions. She tends to be more nurturing, agreeable, less emotionally stable et have a lower sex drive. He tends to be more aggressive, competitive, stoic and have a higher sex drive.
- Due to her child bearing capacity, a woman has sexual power over a man because a man cannot produce his own children.
- Due to his testosterone levels, which facilitate muscle growth, a man has greater physical powers compared to a woman.
- A woman is far more likely to have offspring than a man. We have twice as many female ancestors as male ancestors so there is 3 times as many men who have been reproductive failures than women.
- This leads to men and women having different sexual tendencies and strategies.
- Men are more systematizing and women are more empathetic which explains why there are more men in engineering or being car mechanics and there are more women in the medical and education fields.
- The nurturing female is seen as the fair sex and the aggressive man is seen as the evil sex with widespread societal and political ramifications.
The result is that, in courts of law, whether it be a criminal court of a family court, the inequity between men and women are shocking. There is no gender equality before the law: men are far more likely to be arrested, to be convicted, to be incarcerated, to be given longer prison sentences, to be investigated etc... But the real question is whether that unequal treatment is fair or not. I don't think people understand that equality does not necessarily mean fairness.
Anyone who thinks men and women are the same and consequently need to be held to the same standard or deserve equal treatment is a dogmatic position that makes no sense when you look at it from a scientific point of view. But feminism has successfully convinced the majority that no such differences exist on a biological level and that the behaviour of the genders are socially constructed (by an evil patriarchy). That view is preposterously inconsistent with the scientific reality.
So whether men and women should be treated the same when it comes to sexual misconduct (and to be honest other form as well) is a legitimate question.
That whole regression part blew my mind.
Wow, just looked up Mary Kay Letourneau to see if she was still married to the boy she had sexual relations with and I found out that she died yesterday - July 7, 2020 - from colon cancer.
wow, I had no idea!
Oh my god!
I know it's horrible what she did to her first family and it was horrible what she did to the boy and his future, but every time I saw her interviewed, I kinda liked her.
I knew something was going , there was a great deal of time , when we simply didn't hear from that couple , for what the reason. Nonetheless Mrs. Letourneau passed away , I hope she was in the company of those who loved and cared for her. I have always wanted to ask her , why didn't she change her last name , she kept her married name , but that's neither here or there. You have a wonderful day ahead.
Thank you! Clear teaching brought inner clarity and peace, after many years. Thank you again.
Thank you Dr. Grande, i just opened the information under the video- such precise description of all your sources 👍🙂🌷
You know...As an older guy, yea....I do sometimes think back on certain teachers when I was 16 say and WISH I had a shot on it 😛
But thinking from a logical pov, If that had happened I would of been 100% under complete control by that older person.
They could easily manipulate me.
Hell, even as an older guy I still have to keep myself from getting to caught up with a person and doing more then is healthy for another...at 16....I would of been way to easy to do whatever they wanted.
Just not mature enough logically and easy pickings for a predator.
High school was nuts! Yes guys would be attracted to the 'hottest' teachers and the girls attracted to the 'hottest' teachers. It's a common, normal teenage fantasy. What's NOT normal are the adults who teach these kids and flirt with them or encourage this behaviour. If you can't handle teenage hormones get out of the classroom! Or as I often say: 'Don't pick the little green apples...they're not ripe yet!'
I saw a few of your videos and I liked the way you presented them. Congratulations
Today I stumbled across your videos, Dr. Todd, and went from a view of one to now a couple of hours and many, with many more lined up future viewing. This is video in particular is one of the most carefully presented talks on such a delicate, yet seriously concerning issue. Thank you Dr. Todd! I'm a teacher and have wrangled this topic with colleagues, most of whom are in some kind of denial and so quickly revert to the standard "It's only men that do this", which worries me as any further attempt at this debate is somehow seen as a normalising and reducing the responsibility of the men who do it!
And if there's one thing this awful virus and its resulting enforced quarantine has enabled us to have, is more time to be discerning over our UA-cam content. Naturally there's the easy, obvious and deservedly popular, but with a bit more time on my hands, I've discovered some real gems of worthwhile content providers. I'm refreshing my subscriptions like a spring clean. Dr. Todd... you're a keeper!!!!!!!!
I was in a children's home at 13-14 during which time I had a sexual relationship with a 27 year old female member of staff. I never spoke of it other than to a close friend until I was in my late twenties. I spoke to a therapist and was advised to report it to the police as she is in a position of care and could still be working with children. I spoke to the police and they didn't give a damn, I felt ridiculous. I don't get how it is different for a woman.
I was 12-13 and my female offender was 16-17 (in my state where the legal age of consent is 16, what occured was rape). When I finally came out about it years later in therapy, my therapist encouraged me to tell people. The same shit happened to me.
Perhaps you could talk to Child Protective Services or your county's District Attorney, who might have more of a realization of the future danger to potential victims. Another route might be to contact an attorney seeking civil damages.
Thank you for covering this topic. This is almost acceptable in our society, at least in the media. They'll call it a relationship, or an affair, and never refer to it as what it is- a crime
itwas fascinating, i thoroughly appreciate how you retained compassion for the offender all the way through, speaks very well of you as a practitioner
An excellent presentation on an important and insufficiently examined crime! Thx for bringing your expertise to bear on this troubling topic, Dr. Grande.
This was kind of scary for me to listen to. The past three years I have been kind of emotionally involved with a woman that used to be my teacher. I was 22 and she was 46 when we met. In other words I wasn't a minor, but due to difficulties with puberty and identity I was severely developmentally delayed when it came to sexuality and stuff. We quickly felt out that the other could "provide" something to the other. It lead to a lot of time spent one-on-one in her office, talking to her outside of school (which was fairly normal at this school as us students were initiated into the professional sphere of what we studied). It got very personal, and I really felt I needed her approval. She was and is still married in what looks to be a very good relationship. A man she met when she was my age. She also has a son my age whom she talked about a lot, and said I reminded her of.
Ultimately nothing serious ended up happening. Just an inappropriately close relationship and extreme power imbalance.
Since this happened I've really struggled. I feel rejected, have very low self-esteem, avoid any relationship and feel attracted to nobody but her. I dream of her regularly still, feel resentment towards her for digging so deep into me, for her life she could return to when her "fun" was over. I had nothing but her to rely on, I felt. I've moved away and cut contact, but all of this still plagues me. Really fucked me up.
you are an adult. "power imbalance"?
You are a man. Grow up.
@@chelebeaqueen wow, thanks for that. You see that's not quite how it works. Legally, I am an adult, but it's not like the day we are 18 we are mature and fully "adult". The hurt I experienced and still experienced isn't less real or serious because I'm older.
Becoming an adult is a many year long gradual process, in real life, and slower or faster in different areas and for different people. I was slow, sexually and socially.
There WAS a power imbalance. You don't think there can be power imbalances between adults? What about a boss and employer? That is what she later became to me.
I hope this isn't what you tell people who have been hurt in relationships. Toxic as fuck.
I am a man, true, and that's why I moved to another part of the country, found work and started to study in university. I took responsibility and did what had to be done.
My experience is KIND of like what the video describes, I only pointed out that I was a little older legally when it happened. My experience still have a lot of similarities with it. Adults, and men, can be treated badly and hurt, too.
@@fromeveryting29 unfortunately no one cares or rather no one takes serious abuse against men in society, only women can be victims; and they don't care about your struggles lol
Please don’t be afraid to seek help ! Your feelings are valid (who tells someone to just “man up” when they experience something that is seriously affecting them like this ????) professional advice can help you to work through it. Xx
@@cearley24 Thank you :) I contacted a therapist about the time I wrote this, but because of the corona situation I can't see them yet. But after, I will talk about this. It has been too long now, I need help moving on. Thank you for being understanding. So few people are on the internet.
Thank you for your point of view. It’s sad how these predators get a free pass. They are sexual predators. It makes me ill to hear comments such as, “I wish I had had teachers like that.”
I sure do wish I did
Dr Grande never disappoints. GREAT VIDEO DOC.
I work in a male prison. I am a Sex Offender Program provider. What I have learned from my work is that male sex offenders, who were offended upon as teenagers by older females, do not see themselves as victims because they were willing, even happy participants.. It takes quite a while for them to come to the realization that the woman (or women) took advantage of them and that they were actually victimized. It doesn't help that female sex offender often only get a slap on the wrist for the same crimes that male sex offender will spend years and years in prison for. The justice system actually reinforces the idea that male victims were not really victimized.
There is a duality between romancing and shaming the HS teacher predator.
We have the song "Hot for Teacher" dating back to the 80s. I think that to certain people, a woman who is 'dirty' and who has crossed the line is a desirable thing because it removes them from normal societal protection making it easier to exploit them.
Things have gotten more and more serious over time. When I first met with this 'Hot for Teacher' meme in real life, I didn't respond severely enough. I was like 'awww that's cute (but no)' as if a little kid gave a pretty girl a flower and there was no chance even conceivable. That was a terrible mistake. Now I am far more serious (and even a bit scandalized and outraged) in my rejection. Some of these kids really need to be taught that 'this is not ok at all'. Many of them seem confused.
Ann Murry r-i-v-e-r-d-a-l-e
“Don’t Stand So Close to Me” - The Police
@@Inessence4 I was thinking of that very song.
I’m a teacher and I can’t fathom looking at a 14 year old boy and thinking, “Oh, yeah. He is so hot.” Seriously? Ugh. Gross.
Thank you for your work and the ideas you bring to the surface.
I like watching these, the info is always more and different from what I expect.
The mind of a teenager is so different than someone in their early 20s even!!! Theres definitely something wrong with women who do this shit
These " teachers" can now reach the victim without the parents knowledge . The internet is a very dark ally in so many ways. AND the Teacher can make your life absolute HEL L if you act out afterwards . So scary!
As usual, such an informative context setting video. Thanks Todd.
Thank you so much for providing clarity on this topic. I've learned a lot.
If the teacher waited until after graduation to, "make a move", is that still the same type? The grooming would still have happened even if he's now 18...
Internetter Hey in some places the teacher cannot do that until 30 days after graduation.
Yeah...that sounds awfully similiar to a man waiting for a teenage girl to not be "Jailbait". Seriously creepy. Should be scrutinized, at least.
Very informative, I never really thought about it in that perspective.😕
Love your work Dr Grande.
Dr. Grande, thank you for this! If you were asked to create a mental health curriculum for a full year of high school, what would be your top "must teach" concepts/lessons? Would you include a lesson on just this type of abuse by any authority figure, whether teacher, boss, older family member/friend? I would very much enjoy a video on the question, how to educate children and young people to prevent as much abuse as possible?
Great information and mercifully free of background music.
Wondering about when the age gap is bigger, like 39yr old Brigitte & 15 yr old Emmanuel Macron?
You put forth the facts and change my mind on this issue. Plain and simple
I'm a new subscriber. Has Dr Grande done a vid on male teacher/students also? Would like to view.
Dr. Todd Can you make a video about what causes a person to abuse children? I can't fathom how people can be attracted to children, or do things like what happened to Gabriel Fernandez.
Perhaps you might think of doing a video on when young guys come on to older women. When I was in high school in the 60's there was a macho student in my History class who used to come on to our female teacher with inappropriate sexual comments & innuendos when she passed his desk or was handing out papers. She ignored his comments but it made the rest of us feel very uncomfortable. This student was known as one of the school bullies. When discussing this with other guys, I've been told it's what all young guys want or dream about. What dynamics were going on there?
I think that's just called being an asshole. Even if she wanted to date a minor, she'd have to have a really twisted mind to actually want him.
@@agent1.618 This is a comment section.
Nobody should have to put up with sexual harassment at work. Your teacher I hope addressed this privately as the scumbag student should have had consequences for that behavior.
Exceptional quality of analysis on such a serious topic. As a mother of a boy, I too made my son aware of these dangers...
As a teen boy. I've had teachers, tutors, and doctors flirt and hit on me. I have learned to be more closed to my teachers. It is more common then you think.
That's disgusting. I hope you'll be ok