Why OLEDs Look Terrible at the Store? What Is HDR, Really? | You Asked Ep.16
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- Опубліковано 28 тра 2024
- On today’s episode of You Asked: What IS HDR, really? Streaming 4K HDR 10 plus vs. 4K Blu-ray with just HDR 10? What’s the difference between 4:2:0, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4 color. Why do OLED TVs look terrible in the store?
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PLASMA VS. OLED: • Plasma vs. OLED 2023 |...
00:00 Intro
01:20 Apple TV 4K Quality
06:00 What IS HDR, really?
07:44 Streaming 4K HDR 10 plus vs. 4K Blu-ray with just HDR 10?
09:26 What’s the difference between 4:2:0, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4 color
13:05 Why do OLED TVs look terrible in the store?
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Hey everyone! Really appreciate all the feedback comments on this one. Keep them coming! Couple of clarifications/corrections: Apparently 4K 120 with 10-bit color and 4:4:4: is possible over HDMI 2.1, even without DSC, so IF 4:4:4: chroma was supported on a console game, no trade off would be necessary, and obviously not necessary on PC for HDMI 2.1. According to Murideo, uncompressed, such a signal (with DSC) would only be 10.69 Gbps, which is only 26.72 % of 40 Gbps HDMI 2.1 bandwidth, and just 22.27% of 48 Gbps HDMI. I apologize for the error. Not sure what size the uncompressed signal would be, but apparently it would fit, too.
PS5 can do 12bit RGB HDR 4K signal in 60Hz but in 120Hz mode it has to drop to 4:2:2. Xbox can do 120Hz 10 bit RGB 4K HDR signal thanks to higher (40Gb vs 32Gb) bandwidth.
Does 8k require compression?
LGs look awful.
Meet Samsugn QD OLED the LG killer.
You might also want to clarify that the Nvidia Shield has an AI upscaler that works absolute miracles on older and lower resolution content, as well as lower bitrate content like streaming services.
I recently got an additional TV and went through multiple cheaper options before finally sucking it up and buying another Shield TV, because it really does look that much better.
@@chebrubinSony Bravia A95L QD OLED kills both LG OLED and Samsung QD OLED
I’ve never seen an OLED look bad in a store on either demoes or movies. Even if set to vivid mode, they tend to mop the floor with the non Oled models picture wise. However, I worked at an electronics store many years ago(back in the Cathode Ray days aka when Dinosaurs ruled the Earth. 😉)that would purposely degrade the signal to TVs that they made less profit margin on in order to make the more profitable brands look better by comparison. Maybe that unsavory practice still goes on at some stores….?
They typically look bad as they are usually more dim and also have more glar to top it off being dim with bad glar they have a vivid mode going and now the colors aren't accurate abd could be some what washed out even tho they have an agressive color on typically a lcd looks better because of less glar anf typically brighter not saying oleds look like trash but compared to lcd in stores they don't look as good I'd still pick a very good lcd over a good oled anyday I don't worry about gaming as use a pc monitor for that
So LG and Samsung have fanboys in electronics stores to make Sony look same when it usually better
@RobertK1993 I own all 4 flagship tvs by 4 brands Samsung Sony LG and Hisen and they are amazing tvs and have benifits to having one or another for example I use my samsung in a well lit living room also offers some of the best streaming lg has been the best gaming experience for me I personally rather use a gaming monitor but for the series x works best Sony has the best upscale for older content ect could go on they all have a use case for me I'm a fan boy to no brand of the big 3 not one of them are so much better that it's worth losing sleep over
*I’ve never seen an OLED look bad. There fixed it for you
@@vedantdesai1 why fix someone sentence when grammer is wrong that's hypocritical and also this is non formal dialog so there is no correct grammer
I’m old. I remember watching black and white TV’s and Technicolor movies. The cheapest OLED or LED TV made today is just shocking.
In 1973 we bought a “dream TV console 26” color screen, record player, and all placed in a beautiful piece of walnut cabinetry. The sound was incredible! That system was $3799! A brand new luxury car cost only a little more.
CRT displays and monitors only suffered from high resolution if you compare those by today's standards, but the organic warm and richness in colour were something to be remembered as lasting effect. Talk about those 19" 'Digital' CRT (almost flat) monitors, omg, they were just excellent to work on. Wonder how many folks here even heard or know the brand 'Digital' lol. Same with the warm natural sound of record players those dyas, I hear the same tracks in my Sennheiser M4 but that magic of listening pleasure isn't there. I've had 2 plasma TVs, LG and Samsung and I can boldly say that the pleasure of watching that inky, celloid film like natural PQ is just not there in new screen technologies. One can argue based on all the highvend specs of the today's TVs but I don't buy it. Not taking into consideration the HDR 4k of course but plain 1080p SDR physical BluRay disks.
@@Sas-wk9lj yes. Music in a quality system all the way through the 80’s was so good it sent chills up my skin. I try to describe it to my grandchildren as I describe a world without personal computers and how safe and amazing a time it was to be a child and kids in the 60’ through the 80’s…
@@Sas-wk9lj I had a 4x3 36 inch SONY CRT TV with a flat screen that weighed 235 pounds. Had an awesome picture. Line doubled standard definition to 960i and displayed HD in 1080i. Best CRT TV that I ever saw. And I saw a lot of them being an electronic service technician and working in a video store. The picture looked small when viewing a 16x9 HD video though. Probably equivalent of about a 30inch 16x9 TV.
I currently have a 65 inch LG OLED 4K 3DTV and I love it. Colours are awesome.
Remember the Sony tvs with the 3 button remotes
13:05 Ex Best Buy employee here: our store had old, OLD (im talking not even 4k) splitters for our tv demos that weren't the showcase top of the line models. I cant speak for all stores but theres a good chance that is the reason as the signal might be being sent in 1080p even if the source is 4k HDR. Not to mention all of what was said in the video about demo modes completely blowing out the image as well as practically all the effects the tv can use being enabled at once. The top of the line ones thankfully had separate sources which were truly 4k HDR, still had all the motion smoothing and everything else enabled though
Every time I've watched a 4K Blu-ray and compared it to a streaming version of that movie on the same TV, the 4K blu-ray ALWAYS looks significantly better. Color depth, picture quality, dynamic range, etc... all of it. If you can afford a 4K Blu-ray player and 4K Blu-rays, do it.
Is it alright to just use a ps5?
@@itskelvinn yes, but PS5 doesn’t support Dolby Vision. You will get much better quality on a dedicated 4K blu ray player
Thank you for publishing the You Asked series Caleb.
Thanks for watching it!
One thing to mention about 4K streaming sticks / boxes. If you are connecting with your own HDMI cable, make sure the cable is HDMI 2.0 or higher for a 4K TV. Otherwise, you'll be getting 1080p through the cable. Obviously, your TV will upscale the 1080p signal to fill all of its 4K pixels on the screen, but you are under utilizing your 4K device's capability.
I love that you're answering many questions that I had. Great stuff!!!!!
Thanks so much for this information. I now understand more of the technical matters I’ve always wondered about!!!
Good vid! A great concise overview of color space and its application. You Asked is a really good format for info sharing, keep it coming
Love it Caleb! I always learn a lot from your Q&A sessions! Keep on keeping on!
Very informative. Thanks!
My first response...just from the thumbnail...
As I walk the isles of my Sam's Club I am always drawn TO the oled's. It's that near perfect off angle clarity even with the bright lights. OLED wins every time!
"Aisles" is the word
Same! It’s hard for an OLEd to look bad, which is why I had to dig deep to think of conditions under which they would not.
I appreciated the color lesson. There's terms that go by me sometimes. This filled in some gaps. Keep up the good work Caleb.
Love this and keep it coming!
Thank you for answering!! A comparison video on the streaming and the Blu-ray would be awesome, keep up the great work :)
Thanks for answering my question! You're great!
I love the science lesson! I'm always up for learning something new.
that was a great episode Caleb, I'm using the Alienware 34 inch monitor you showed with the Alienware Aurora R16 Gaming Desktop and the Logitech Z906 5.1 Digital Surround System and I love it.
Loving this series, and the tech questions
Wow, was looking at both the 4k streaming devices since doing the sony pictures core on ps5 and seeing such a big difference and why OLEDs looking like crap when i went to best buy questions since black friday! Glad others asked so you could make this video!
Hi Caleb. Love the episode, and thanks for answering my question at the end. It was very helpful in making my decision. Also, thanks for explaining the tech behind HDR and chroma sub sampling. Since I have a Samsung TV, I'm unfortunately only limited to HDR 10+, but I manage to live without the Dolby, mostly due to brand loyalty.
My pleasure! Thanks for watching and thanks for sending in your question!
Loved the video. Thank you. I still hope you'll go in-depth on upconverting one of these days.
Good stuff, I like the “in the weeds” information sprinkled in for sure
Bought an Apple TV 2 years ago on sale and now I love it. Most videos stream with the same media layout so forwarding and rewinding is so nice and fluid and it just looks cohesive. Videos stay loaded in the background I can be watching a show then switch to a movie to watch with others then go back to the show and it’s still there so it keeps apps loaded in the background. It’s late and you don’t want people to hear your AirPods connect seamlessly. It’s a lot of little things that add up to a big things plus the best is you aren’t inundated with all these ads on your Home Screen just a clean row of apps. Love the Apple TV
Hey Caleb, you're probably spot on with the Video Matrix theory. I've been selling TVs for 10+ years now and our system sucks... Apparently it's not possible to split an HDMI signal 50 times affordably, so our system is using regular coax connections and it down-samples the resolution to 1080i, which looks horrible in my opinion but management wants the same feed on all the TVs. It's been a constant battle but if a customer complains or makes a comment about the picture, I just switch the TV to demo mode hahaha
Love this and keep it coming!
Still waiting on the real technical specs on all the main streaming services. I already place my money on streaming from Apple.
You’re doing such a great job on these vids and making the deeper tech notes pretty accessible. Please keep it up and continue to use the phrases “pleased as punch” and “twice on Sundays” (but maybe without the chicken restaurant reference!)
Good stuff Caleb! 🎉
FEEDBACK: I've had a chance to watch a couple "You Asked" videos, and I am enjoying the videos. The video length, format, and answers are all balanced well for the general masses. When it comes to TV tech and reviews, I find Caleb's format to be too general. However, in the context of answering questions for those interested in the industry, this is his niche! Great work!!!
I like the detail info. That’s why I’m here.
Great in the weeds tech stuff. Keep it up!
love the more in depth stuff
Awesome video very timely as I am looking to upgrade both my Panasonic plasma and getting a ub9000 4k player. I’m also glad i picked an apple tv for home although nz has way less options to buy
Great stuff Caleb, personally being a technoid I love being in the weeds and I think it has a place in these sessions.
The best explanation of chroma subsampling I’ve seen yet. Thanks!
Love this deep teach stuff
The Apple TV is a powerful device, only issue is if you are driving a surround system pass through audio is lacking, especially when using 3rd party apps, no way of getting Atmos or 7.1 when on 3rd party due to pass through audio
Great content
Great show! I upgraded from the Amazon Fire TV stick 4K Max to the 2nd generation version and saw improvement in video image and sound on my Hisense U8H.
Love the nerd out. More please.
Definitely love my ATV 4K streamer box ; about the only complaint I have is that for some reason the commercial breaks on YT videos - which I’ll watch on either my iPad or 77” LG & surround system - are much more awkward, with short dropouts of audio and black screen - but the vast improvement in picture on all apps makes that barely an inconvenience 😊
Edit: waited til the end for this one - please continue to dig into the weeds - there’s always something to be gleaned, and we can always just skip ahead.
Great video!! Thanks! Would you care to compare video quality on blu ray palyers vs higher end media player such as Zidoo or Zappiti?
i don't need a tv i just enjoy watching these.
yes apps perform VERY differently depending on what device you're playing them on. On my tv (an older samsung smart tv), the disney app will get the colors really wrong at times, putting in purple streaks where they don't belong, but playing the same movie on the disney app on a 4k apple tv looks fine.
Thanks for the color subsampling explanation. That is probably the most useful one I have seen. As an FYI along the lines of this Q&A, my Hisense U7K can do 144hz from my PC with 4:4:4 color subsampling, but only 8 bit color depth. It can only do 120hz with 10 bit color depth and the color subsampling does not seem to matter. If anyone would happen to know why, I am curious.
LG OS processes things more slowly than every streaming device I've used. For example, when I watch live sports, I will always do it on the Roku Ultra or Chromecast because it's a couple seconds faster than the C1/C2. The delay builds up the longer you go without resetting the stream.
Any OLED I’ve seen where I work look phenomenal all the time in store. That being said after fiddling around with some TVs I figured out some TVs from certain brands were set badly in settings to make them look worse in comparison to the “higher” end models lol, so I set them to the same setting for fairness
This series is great.
I wish it was possible to double, maybe even triple thumbs up your videos! Great content as always.
Thanks
I always like to learn more info like this
5:33 Why? Could you elaborate on that? I just want to know what it does that ruins the quality.
15:05 24Hz actually divides perfectly into 120 or 240Hz.
15:20 I think most people would think Filmmaker Mode looks terrible on a show room floor, compared to super bright QLEDs and Mini LED TVs. Filmmaker Mode looks incredible in a dark room, but it's not really something that looks good in a super bright room. Most people seeing a TV in Filmmaker Mode would probably think it looks way too dark.
Probably my favorite video. The techier the better.
Hey Caleb, I have an S90C arriving just before Christmas which should go great with my PS5 and 4K Blu Ray player. The TV has 5.2 Bluetooth connectivity so I’m wondering if I can just use a good pair of Bluetooth headphones like the XM5s for the above, or if I’ll need to get a dedicated TV pair like the Seinnheisers?
I wish I could give this video multiple thumbs up! 👍👍👍👍👍
Hi Caleb;
For the audio and videophiles who have amassed a collection of high quality audio and 4K UHD physical media, do you have any plans for reviewing the Magnetar UDP 900 ? It would be an interesting comparison to the Oppo UDP 205 universal media player.
I also use Apple TV 4K for streaming and agree that it works great. My nit with it is the remote. I detest the loud clicky noises it makes when pressing a button. The tactile feedback is very good but why all the noise?
I'm sorry but I don't know where to ask this other than here. I just purchased a Sony X90L after watching your best of 2023 video. My question is which HDMI cables should I get to receive the best experience from my new TV? I do have a gaming laptop that I want to connect from about 15' away. I also have a Blu-ray player and ROKU about 2' away from the connections. Are Jsaux and Fosman good brands? That's what I found on Amazon. Thanks in advance for your reply. And thanks for your videos that help cut through all the confusion with this high tech stuff.
I totally enjoyed this episode! I feel smarter somehow. 😂✌🏾
The samsung Odyssey oled G8 only come with micro hdmi 2.1 (among others)
Do you have any recommendations on what cable to get to go from micro hdmi to hdmi 2.1
IMHO material shot at higher frame rates also has the soap opera effect, though without the artifacts.
I agree with store mode... if possible, try setting the TV to filmmaker. LG makes it really hard, because the TV switches out of the filmmaker mode within seconds, unless you keep moving the remote control like crazy. Samsung makes it even harder by not even allowing viewers to activate filmmaker in stores (thanks for that!). You'll probably need to get an employee to deactivate store mode (or go through the settings and try 0 0 0 0 as password...). There's also upscaling, sharpening and lots of improvement stuff that ruins the image.
This is the first video full of useful information.
I stream from an NVIDIA Shield, and changing from the default YcBcr 4:2:0 10 bit to the highest available 4:2:2 12 bit shows great improvements to the color quality! I originally turned off dolby vision and HDR because it looked worse than SDR. However, after changing this setting, dolby vision and HDR looks fantastic!
HDR never looks better than properly setup SDR sorry. Also, nothing uses 12 bit color....literally nothing other than some professional cameras.
@@drunkhusband6257 Well, my tv doesn't support 12 bit sure, but there is no other option on the nvidia shield for 10 bit 4:2:2 and it seems to detect that and just send 10 bit down the line. Still, Dolby vision exhibits its magic once that one simple setting is changed. I will say SDR is much more consistent as mastering in dolby vision seems to be highly dependent on the studio the content came from.
Great information thanks! Yup, physical media is going to win on quality, and no meddling censorship, plus special features & memorabilia/art -- win, win, win & win! Streaming is great for previewing film before committing to a high quality 4K transfer you're likely going to watch again. If only all films and/or TVs supported both HDR10+ & Dolby Vision, but we have war instead...
What do you recommend on Apple 4k and S95b 4:2:0, 4:2:2, and 4:4:4 color?
15:39 so quick question for you Caleb I myself have the ub820 should I put the 4:4:4 back to 4:2:0 for a better experience with my 4k Blu-ray watching?
4:4:4 is always a better pic if your equipment supports it.
I was always a big fan of using external streaming boxes. Yes, they all look a little different, even when viewing the same program material. But, at least for my use, I've now found that the Google TV interface built in to my Sony A80J OLED works best for me. All of the apps I need are available. The interface is speedy enough. And, to my eyes, I get the best looking Dolby Vision content on the built-in apps. I have much less problem with the "too dark" look of Dolby Vision using the TV's apps.
Just wondering, since the newest LG tv models are coming with the new WebOS 23, is it possible to use it with LG G2?
Slapped it 👍
What streaming sticks/boxes play the best with computer monitors? I have a Samsung Neo G8 and my firestick refuses to display content in 4k HDR because it's supposedly not HDCP 2.2 compliant
Personally I like the motion smoothing settings being on 7-8. I got use to the higher quality picture of my C1, and after turning on motion smoothing it ended up looking better. Now have a G3 and I turn it on also.
I have an LG 4k/3d TV and love it. I did buy a high frame rate 4k movie: BILLY LYNN'S LONG HALFTIME WALK. Not sure if the 3d version that it came with is in the same high frame rate though, or even if my player and/or TV can display it.
Avatar 2 was also shot at 48fps, but not sure if the blu-ray version was released with it. Will have to look into that, as I do own it.
Would you stream from the A95L google interface or add an ATV 4K box to the mix? From your video I’m assuming ATV, however, the Sony A95L interface is not bad. Right??
Hi Caleb good to see all you videos one question do you think is good lg A2 OLED to watch sports an movies thanks
😊for the 60 hz reate
Actually the game console does help when your TV isn't the latest model, maybe the only downside will be with the subtitles in some streaming apps
Interesting to hear you say a Chromecast will often work more consistently than the built-in Google TV. Perhaps it is consistent in streaming quality, but I've been shocked how slow the Chromecast is. I've been a spoiled Nvidia Shield boy for years, but I picked up a Chromecast for travel, and it is sooooooo sluggish compared to my nine-year-old Shield.
Hi Caleb, great video as always. Wanted to ask if you or anyone else in the chat has any idea why when streaming programs to my Sony A95K from my Apple TV 4K does the sound slowly decrease around 15-20%? When i skip forward, backward or pause and resume it seems to reset again? I have the Apple TV set to quieten loud sounds but I can’t turn it off as some loud scenes (explosions, gun fire etc) in movies really jump up significantly in volume. Thanks in advance.
I think the Apple TV have a reduce loud sounds option or something. I would check out the audio settings on the Apple TV
@@MrA1Sauceeeyes I have that turned on to reduce the loud action scenes, but I meant the overall volume reduces 15-20% and then only resets if I pause and resume, skip forward or backwards in a movie.
About the built-in software, I just got an LG 43" mini LED and the TV it self is great but the built-in web OS is trash almost all around it's slow and clunky and u have to sign up with LG just to watch Pluto. And the UI not only clunky and slow the it's blurry. My best bet was going and getting a Roku for the TV since I had a better experience with a TV with Roku built in. I just like the navigation and smoothness of the Roku
Apple TV will not display Peacock's 4K shows in 4K. If I want to watch anything on Prime, I do use my Firetv Cube since I do know they don't do the Thursday night football games in HDR on some of my other devices. Its just hit and miss if the apps will allow for 4K or HDR on certain devices.
Can you do a video on OLEDs and black crush? I feel like not enough people talk about how bad it is sometimes and why LED/LCD excels in that area compared to OLED.
There's nothing inherent about the OLED panels that cause this, it's added intentionally. LG's control boards cause chrominance overshoot issues with WOLED panels by activating the white subpixel when they shouldn't, mostly with low bitrate 8bit content, and overcompensate by artificially lowering the black levels to hide it instead of having an option to add 10 or 12bit dithering for near blacks which solves the problem completely.
If you have an LG OLED, slap on a test pattern and up the brightness setting to raise the black level until it's correct.
If you're watching bitstarved content use mpv, add some mild debanding and luma clamped 12bit dithering to fix the poor near black processing issues.
In short it's the engineers at LG not knowing how to do digital image processing correctly. Case in point, the debanding filter on LG TVs is inferior to what was being used for tv and film piracy over 10 years ago and the "clear motion" frame blending performs worse than simple bilinear interframe blending.
Even at Best Buy all their OLED monitors I've ever seen look better than any of their LCD monitors including QLED and mini-LED TVs. So where is this myth coming from?
Because they only play back n white image . Anything with black background will pop. But I. Real tv watching everything is brightened , any Oled below $4000 will look Flat n 2D comparing flagship Mini LED . When image r dim in day time or if y have lights on (have kids , grandkids , lights always on) the image will appear Flat-zoom out . Vs bright image can be fresh clean pop towards u n more 3D
@@Yoga_Tv_buying .. None of that is true. I have both OLED and mini-LED TVs. In fact, I'm watching a movie on my TCL series 8 right this second. My Sony OLED poops on my TCL, but neither are garbage.
Do all my streaming through my ps5 or series x and everything always looked amazing,….it has to also do a lot with tv calibration.
I'm currently using a Sony Bravia 46ex500, finally upgrading. Prices are terrible here in Canada. A 65' S90C is 2,200 but that's the one I want. Will have to wait until it comes under 2k 👎
Which would be better for use as a computer monitor 120hz 4:2:2 or 60hz 4:4:4? Both at 4k resolution.
120Hz is good for gaming and video. Your unlikely to see a difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4.
I’m watching hdr content on a 12.9 iPad Pro xdr and it looks amazing
I own that Alienware 175 Hz monitor, HDR DisplayPort 1.4a at 3440x1440 (no DSC) will only support 8-bit color at that refresh rate due to bandwidth limitations, but you can set that monitor down to 144 Hz with full 10-bit color. Bottom line, you can't tell the difference...
I own the lg cs65 there's definitely a big difference in sound quality when using Apple 4k
Do u do panasonic tv
Can someone tell me the best streaming device for watching FuboTV? I’ve had two Samsung TVs and Fubo has had poor picture quality on both of them, whether it was the native app or through Apple TV. Would an Amazon Firestick or a Roku be better for better video quality with Fubo?
I have a 77” LG C2 and I notice that streaming from the Apple TV looks way better than streaming from the TV itself. The TV has way more noticeable digital artifacting than the ATV especially with Hulu, UA-cam, and HBO, and browsing is just so much better.
Nice tech
I tried an Apple 4k box last year and I didn't like it. I went with a simple Roku stick and it is easy to use and video quality is great imo. I'm not an Apple hater btw as I own an Iphone 13.
I saw baywatch in 4k in amazon was awesome ❤
Where’s the list of forty HDR10+ discs you mentioned?
Caleb, keep the tech deets. As long as you Chapter the questions, folks so inclined can just skip ahead.
My Shield TV Pro is my go-to device. If I buy any 4K content, I'll get through iTunes store. I like the Apple TV + app on the Shield.
Couldn't find link to 40 Blu Rays with hdr10+, pls help
Video quality should be the same across all devices. As long as the TV supports it.
Watching Paramount plus on my PC, it looks like it's 480.
I use a Sony playstation 4 as my streaming device. Is that ok with any TV or is in better to get a specific tv to make the streams better or at least communicate with the smart tv?
The PS4 only runs 1080p unless you have the PS4 Pro? If you don't have the Pro, and your TV is 4K then you are better off buying a streaming device so that it displays 4K content when it's avaliable.