Це відео не доступне.
Перепрошуємо.
Genocide Themes In Cartoons... Yeah, we're going there.
Вставка
- Опубліковано 18 лип 2019
- Remember that time when every kids show in 2016 was about mass murder?
Genocide Watch:
www.genocidewatch.com
Unicef:
donate.unicefusa.org
International Rescue Committee:
help.rescue.org/donate/myanmar
Due to the massive number of people mentioning the show, I am linking my other video that specifically covers Genocide Themes In Avatar: The Last Airbender. Check it out here: ua-cam.com/video/YXbyYgPokig/v-deo.html
Bruh. I can tell you why this vid has more dislikes than 3% (3% is usually the most u want, ive seen too many videos). There is no juice people couldn't figure out for themselves in the first few minutes aside from the phone genocide example and Dommy mommy. 4 minutes for that. I know the algorithm prefers longer vids. But you aren't going to get retention that way, because listening becomes a chore. Like 5:00 'even tho the titular character wander' takes twice as long to say. People aren't here for poetry, they are here for information. The information they got there is you like fancy words. People want the juice. 5:25 'to this day i still get goosebumps watching this play out, here was this cartoon about optimism'. No this is retroactively framing it. You don't like, 'oh goku died, and I care because x y z'. You show how x y z is a theme, then 'AND he dies!' then you show him dying(otherwise theres no investment in that negative outcome). I recommend you go and study Aleczandxr to learn pacing better. Then right after 'which non-the less pulled no punches when it came to genocide' and the clip is showing Dom stuck on a drill. The background shouldnt be filler in a vid, the clips should be supplemental, for the whole vid, or help with tone. Clips are nice. But pacing of clips matters too. After you study Aleczandxr I recommend Super Eyepatch Wolf to study.
Yeah I guess its mostly the start thats the problem it gets immersive later. Its only like, twice the dislikes you want anyway.
@@mimszanadunstedt441 I was prepared for dislikes because this is a controversial issue. Maybe just watch what you watch?
@@mimszanadunstedt441 dislikes help the video as much as likes do. Besides, it tells me that I’ve rustled the right jimmies. Sometimes a video has more important goals that mass appeal.
Fair, maybe. But the start just jumps right in. If the goal is to rustle some jimmies you would wanna clickbait people who dont wanna see it into watching it to get mad intentionally. Maybe I'm being a lil rude but criticism doesnt hurt overall I think.
Wander over yonder: Address genocide
Steven Universe: Ignore genocide
Star vs the FOE: Commit genocide
That ending sucked
Karanthaneos Steven deals with the genocide
@@pedrogomezid
Yeah, it should be "hope for the best, something convenient will come up"
@@emmytweetie2177 Imagine being a fourteen year old and knowing how to appropriately deal with genocide. the fuck did you expect a pacifist little boy to do?
@@namelesswolf2625 i mean yeah but you really think people are blaming steven the fictional character and not idk the writers of the show???
“A living mass grave”... I don’t think I ever really thought enough about what the cluster truly is
M.A.D Dragon I remember a artist, a teenager during the holocaust(maybe?), ded on the beginings of the millenium because of a murder, who started as a photographer who challenged the forced realism on It's time's photography standard, by taking abstract artistic photography pieces, before changing to a much more abstract medium and themes, painting hellish beauties
The cluster, and experiments, kinda remind me of his canvased pieces
Unreal, viceral, cool lookin horror
Oh add a bit more grimdark and we'll get some good lovecraftian horror
ELbabotas Shinigami
I’m going to be honest with you.
What you’re trying to say sounds interesting buuut...
Reading what you wrote made me think you had a stroke.
I think it was about a photographer focused on the holocaust editing photos in some way?
I’m still not certain what you were trying to say so please correct me if I’m wrong.
ELbabotas Shinigami are you thinking of Zdzisław Beksiński?
Sir Apple Sir, yeah.. i get that a lot, : p
Yup, a kid who saw the horrors of war and made it a thing that regular people could understand... and some random cool lookin thangs
I genuinely miss Wander. It was wildly original, interesting enough premises, and honestly a hidden gem in the 2010's.
I'm not the only one
Loved that show so much, I only got to watch the first few episodes though since my mom found it "obnoxious" 😔 one day I need to watch it all the way through
Couldn’t agree more:)
Totally with you, my sister, mom and I have started watching the series on Hulu again and I truly wish it wasn’t just thrown out and ignored by Disney. I’m just relieved it didn’t get seasonal rot like Star Vs. and Steven Universe
I watched it when it was on, and recognized that it was a good show, but the sad thing is that I was too young to realize how good it really was (I would've been about 11 or 12 when I watched it)
Diamonds: we are sorry
Steven: we forgive you
Hitler: I’m sorry as well
Steven: as long as your sorry
Basically Steven universe
This should be a top comment it’s accurate af
He is honnestly one of the people that make me hope that hell actually exists.
Not to send people who did big or little mistakes. Those people should sometimes have a little punishment then a chance to be better. Like, someone who once cheated on their partner. Someone who bullied someone else as a kid, ect.
But massive genocide isn't a mistake, it's just proving the killer is (or became) a mistake. This, this should stay in hell for eternity T-T
@@uMaud why?
im sorry, Hitler and humans in general actually have a choice in the way they act. So there's absolutely no comparison between them and gemstone based alien race that are each programmed and designed for a specific purpose that they can't leave :)
I'm honestly more mad that they redeemed the diamonds because they ABUSED pink. Themes of genocide might honestly go over kids heads, but real kids are out their that get treated similarly to the way Pink was treated. But then it's presented as if they've always loved her and missed her so much because they're 'family'. Fuck that. It's not a good lesson for kids that everyone deserves forgiveness and a second chance, it's okay to grow up and seperate yourself from bad people even if those people are your family.
They're not "redeemed" omg who told you that
@@salceds the show
@@unoriginal_name4576 the show didn't have any line of dialogue that says the diamonds are redeemed and are good people. most of them are just annoyed and understandably exhausted with just having to deal with them. thats not redemption, and just because to us, as the audience, the diamonds are likeable doesn't mean theyre redeemed.
@@salceds The show might as well have flat out said the Diamonds are redeemed, because it clearly has no intention of addressing their various heinous, vile, despicable, and inexcusable warcrimes.
@@hippieskye8794 They're not redeemed. They're still not painting the Diamonds all buddy buddy and it's seen with the interactions of the characters. They're fully aware of what the Diamonds did and can do but just because they haven't taken any time to address that properly means they're redeemed now.
The diamonds were the biggest disappointment in the show honestly.
DON'T REDEEM PEOPLE WHO ENSLAVE AND KILL INNOCENT SPECIES
SU: You killed billions , are basically hitler but with 10,000X the body count and you show everyone that you only believe that you're "superior" to everyone else and all 4 of u are the "Master race" that every gem should strive to be like. What is your rebuttal to all of this?
The Diamond Authority (TDA): We are a sad cuz 1 of us died
SU: so that's the reason you're doing all this
TDA: No she died after we are doing all this
SU: oh you poor thing
Me wanting and aiming to be an actual writer who already wrote the villain of a story to the worst punishment I think you can do to a person : WAT THE F- , WHY WHY WHY Y Y Y Y
Hmmmm you gave me an idea for an bad person what if the species wasn't innocent like for example if humans just happen to enslave Darlene since I've been watching Dr who.
They don't even enslave them though. They just go dead immediately. At most, Pink might try making a twisted zoo with them but most of the time they just die with their planets
I'm sorry you felt the Diamonds were a disappointment. But I don't think the Diamonds were redeemed, I mean what more could Steven have done. To bring it back around to Google and the smartphone thing the best we can hope for is that they will stop and then that we can coexist. I know that that is a bitter pill to swallow especially as the Diamonds were actual characters who you could focus on.
To say that the Diamonds have been redeemed implies that they've realised their mistakes and are trying to be better people because of it. The movie very evidently shows that this isn't the case - they're still very much awful people who are acting good purely for Steven.
"Befriending" the Diamonds was a necessary evil for Steven in order to heal corruption. They're not exactly off the hook quite yet.
The problem with SU is that they focus too much on individual characters and forget plot and anybody outside that character arc. If viewed individually, it's great. People learn, they love and be better. But they forgot the effects of that journey.
Man that's totally right, I usually see shows with the opposite problem so I didn't recognize that
I mean, the episodes where Steven gets rejected by Connie who's going to college forgets about gems making warp pads, lion being able to make portals, Greg being rich and Andy flying him to South Korea... let alone the fact that Connie is around 14 and 2 years younger than Steven.
@@christopherbennett5858
Very true, they keep creating real human situations but always forget they already made the solution in universe which made the problem mute.
Like when Bismuth was first introduced, they treated her and Steven's struggles like human struggles where death is an issue, but completely forget the fact that poofing, bubbling and regeneration exist in the universe which made shattering a gem completely unnecessary and even harder to do than poofing someone.
@@azimnazlen8564 Literally, Rose's sword destabilises the form whilst bubbling pacifies them.
Whilst I find the diamonds horrible, just doing that would have been the way around it.
Not to mention, Bismuth was the moment I saw cracks in the show. They were trying to be neutrally grey but the only way it could be more black and white is if Homeworld built a Death Star... then you realise that the Cluster is their Death star as a mass grave.
Also makes me think of the episode where Pearls are revealed to be artificialy grown second class servants as a symbol of status, effectively slaves and the show also shows Pearl in love with PD... accidentally creating a seriously dark crush someone has for their former master, not really exploring if these feelings were real or programming until the movie.. which has kind of half hearted.
@Glühfunke Which makes the question more interesting. Why did bubbling the diamonds never come into question?
Why do you genocide? :
Lord Dominator: Bescause I Love people deseperation and hopelessness
Diamonds: To fulfill our propuse of life
Star Butterfly: *Y E S*
is it just me or is lord dominator just Junko Enoshima in space?
@@apollyon4535 omg ur right thooo
@@apollyon4535 omfg
Star Butterfly: romantic subplot go brr
Chara: MY GOALS ARE BEYOND YOUR UNDERSTANDING
Seriously, _really_ love how the only sad thing about Lord Dominator is that she's SO awful that no one could ever love, let alone _like_ her. That's it. No tragedy, no _oh, the poor thing..._ Nope! She's just willfully and absolutely terrible, and while it's sad for somebody to be so alone that they don't have _anybody,_ it's not something to feel super sad for her about because it's literally just _"nobody likes me because I'm horrifically evil and treat others atrociously and NOBODY ELSE is as (gleefully) vile as I am!"_
God, I love the way this character was handled.
You really nailed this video essay! Awesome job, man!
The only thing that the writers did to give her dimension was to reveal that she's lonely. *And it wasnt done for sympathy nor context*
@@angela.luntian And flash forward to 2019, the Steven Universe movie debuted a brand new villain who was very similar to Dominator, who also wanted to destroy a planet with a giant drill machine, all because she was also lonely.... she even had makeup running down her face, but the difference is... Spinel's heart on her chest was upside down.
Imagine if this video was made in 2019, because the main antagonist from the STeven Universe movie was VERY similar to Dominator.
And in that episode where she hung out with Sylvia, she was so happy to be with someone instead of being lonely all the time. You could tell she needed a friend, and Sylvia was giving her a chance to be friends with her. But then, she dipped when Sylvia was about to be eaten by that monster until Wander came and saved her.
@@gamefan6219 BRUHHHH
honestly I didnt see that parallelism!
Spinel has a backstory though, and wasnt sadistic. But theyre so similar it's strange.
Moral of the story: Go watch "Wander Over Yonder"
great moral
The protagonist’s name is WANDER (well, kind of). But. Yes. He is right.
Plus, it’s « over YONDER ».
“Dewit!”
Wander over Yonder. How dare you make a spelling error on the internet.
Funny enough, Wander Over Yonder was the only one to call out genocide for what it was, and this was a lore-less, adventure of the week where the main character just does good. And the villain just simply liked blowing things up.
Whereas SU and SiTFoE both had genocide as huge part of the general plot and complex villains behind the genocide, the former never embraced the "real"-ness of it if it came at the expense of redemption, and the former literally ended with an even bigger genocide being committed (hence why I call the show Star Is The Force of Evil).
yeah toffe finale was so bad, i mean, the idea of the group you oppress for generations taking vengeance against the "good guys" showing us that "not all what looks good is good" was better than the real thing in the show, just power up and call it a day, the fanfictions off toffee planning a revolution against the humans to reclaim what is rightfully for the monster was much better
you mean the latte ended with that then
You mean latter, not former. That was confusing to read...
ATLA did genocide will; and address it's impact on the people i.e Aang
@@noahmpinto14 it's interesting that ATLA also ends with the genocidal big bad not being killed and with some Fire Nation bigwigs being whatever "redeemed" means (Zuko and Iroh). It seems that the real important part of these genocide plots is not how you come down in your conclusion (Aang ultimately does decide that killing the Fire Lord is not the morally correct thing and finds another way to end the fighting), but rather that you actually HAVE the discussion. Where Steven Universe dismisses lethal action out of hand, in ATLA it's on the table for the characters to consider, and it makes the show stronger for it
I'm very disappointed that the Diamonds are redeemed. I get it's a kid show, they need all the Diamonds to heal the corrupted gems and there are no villains according to Rebecca Sugar but having dictators who colonize planets, shatter gems for not being obedient, corrupt gems to monsters and forced them to fuse to become a Cluster, forgiven in one ep is pretty bad in my opinion. They have to answer for they have done, it doesn't have to be them being shattered, it could be something else like exile.
Your right
I think exile would’ve worked well, because it would have meant the show still kept the message of not harming others when possible. The issue would be how to have the rest of gemkind move on, which could be solved by having Steven step in and try to fix things and given Steven a firsthand experience of gems and their issues, as well as character growth.
Anna Bella true, the diamonds don’t deserve to rule, but I don’t think the nature of the show would allow them to be shattered, if they did I would be shocked
@Nicholas Arvanitis
I agree there, as much as they should be shattered due to the potential danger of them being around, you’d need a very different show to branch the subject of “killing in self-defence” and a much different one for a planned coup. Exile would have worked as a good medium, since it’s consequences for actions without completely moving away from mercy. Still feels like leaving too big a threat though.
Anna Bella yeah very true, this is just me but if I had the power, I would shatter them, they are too big a threat and have caused too much pain, and do t even show real remorse, in fact I don’t even think they even are able too, it’s not in there program
I feel this quote is relevant.
“Gohan, let it go. It is not a sin to fight for the right cause. There are those who words alone will not reach. Cell is such a being. You are gentle. You do not like to hurt. I know because I too have learned these feelings. But it is because you cherish life that you must protect it. Please drop your restraints. Protect the life I loved. You have the strength, my scanners sensed it. Just... let it go.”
A rare case of Toriyama being toptier
@@kostajovanovic3711 I actually am not sure this is Toriyama, but rather DBAbridged.
@@TheRayny Nah the DBAbridged version had the "Grow up" line. It still did the same thing as the original in effect though.
Esto es El fin El Grande padre yo te detendre.
k
I think that the shattering discourse in Steven Universe is complicated by the fact that bubbling is seemingly just as effective without lethality.
Bubbling is prison. Shattering is the death penalty.
Funny Valentine Did Nothing Wrong in a way, bubbling is putting someone in a coma. When peridot is unbubbled it is clear she has no awareness of time passed, and it’s of like being kind of brain dead and then “revived”. The only difference then is that bubbling can be reversed while shattering really can’t (it’s unclear though, as the forced fusions are shown to have some remnant of their previous form, so if someone were to force one gems pieces back together they might come back?). I blame that one the ambiguity of it all being left untouched.
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong Funny Valentine did a lot wrong - I claim that despite his claims to do good for his country, his methods reveal that he was much more interested in the mindless accumulation of power, much like Dio/Diego. Consider D4C Love Train's actual effect - Valentine doesn't use it to protect America from misfortune but rather himself, redirecting it to the parts of America that border him. When Gyro mentioned the way countries fight over corpses of saints, it's implied that merely having the corpse buried in the country serves to redirect misfortune - meaning the accumulation of corpse parts had more to do with Valentine's own desire for power than any sincere desire to protect his country - it was already protected.
Finally, consider what taking the first napkin actually means. It means you're making the decision for the party. It means you take decisive action to set the norms of society. However, the napkins are illustrative given that the direction one takes a napkin from is ultimately inconsequential. The truth about taking the first napkin is that taking the first napkin is about making seemingly inconsequential decisions for people that may go against their best interests largely for the sake of it. This same desire to take the metaphorical first napkin has led the irl US to devastating wars and support of dictatorships and right wing regimes merely to support the petrodollar and gain the first napkin by controlling the currency in which oil is traded. But it gets worse - Valentine doesn't want America to take the first napkin, merely himself because he identifies himself with America as a whole and has convinced himself that what is good for his needs is good for America. The goal isn't to lead the world to some superior place, the goal is to lead merely for the sake of leading - to maintain hegemony and de facto dictatorship. He wants the power to lead the world, doesn't care who he hurts in the pursuit or use of said hegemonic power ultimately for the sake of it.
In this context, Zeppeli's and Johny's desires are more admirable than anything Valentine has done. Yes, the desires are largely selfish but the pursuit of pleasure is a higher value than the pursuit of hegemony for its own sake because at least someone gets something out of this power. It's limited in its scope and also limited in who gets hurt. Compare Funny Valentine to Father from FMA or Peter Wiggin from Ender's Game or Dick Cheney from the Bush Administration - you'll find similarities in the unchecked ambition to lead.
TL;DR Funny Valentine is a statist dictator and probably would have invaded Iraq to preserve the stability of the Petrodollar if Johny didn't trap him in an infinite spin loop first.
-Also Funny Valentine did some Filthy Acts at a Reasonable Price-
Funny Valentine Did Nothing Wrong _oh crap you’re right_
After watching the finale of Steven Universe, I thought to myself "are we not going to address the millions of species the gems wiped out on countless planets?"
It's still a powerful intergalactic empire - if you don't have the capability(or willingness) to overthrow it, all you can do is try and influence it for the positive.
@@shionkreth7536 The Gems may have forgiven themselves but other lifeforms who've lost their planets will still be bitter. If I were them I'd pool my intellect with other refugees to build a superweapon to destroy the Gems in ultimate form of revenge. An eye for an eye & a planet for a planet.
I believe one tweet or post from the writers said that there was never any human like species on those other planets. So just plants and alien animals got wiped out. Not that it made anything better but just worst.
@@sandywolfr26 so technically the diamonds never committed genocide.
They did though? If you include the movie and Future, it's shown they no longer are colonizing planets or oppressing their people. The diamonds no longer pose a threat, so there's no reason anything needs to be done about them. What purpose would punishing them serve? Punishment should never be for revenge or any sense of 'justice', it should solely be for the purpose of protecting the public. Since the diamonds are no longer a threat to the public, and they would prefer not to be punished, punishing them would reduce collective happiness, not increase it, and so would be morally wrong.
In the past, people have told me that a villain must ALWAYS have a reason for doing what they do. Having them "just be evil for the sake of it," according to them, is seen as "lazy."
But the truth is...not EVERY villain has a deep rooted trauma that drives them.
Sure; Killer Croc, Harley Quinn, Clayface and even Poison Ivy may have redeeming qualities that make them worthy of empathy. But there are those like Luthor, Amanda Waller and more presently, Lord Dominator who just love the idea of killing others for their own selfish gain.
So, no; having a villain be evil for the sake of evil isn't really all that lazy anymore
well the thing is just cause there is a tragic reason a villain is turned villain they should net be forgiven or redeemed
@@matthewnickolas4706 Don't you believe in second chances
@@matthewnickolas4706 I would rather be a Cuck than a pessimist
@@RiffRift that's not pessimism. pessimism is assuming the worst. not believing in second chances is just realising bad people usually stay bad
Luthor depends on the writer sometimes he enjoys killing but generally the ones I have read/see, he is indifferent of killing others
Parents: let's watch some family friendly tv kids shows
Kids shows in 2016: space diamond Nazi's, thicc goth banana republic dictator, natives being genocided for their land
Kid's shows in the 80: Yes we talk about sex a lot
Steven universe had the easiest (albeit a little boring) way out of this mess. Bubbling gems is a well established power that we know isn’t murder and wouldn’t require Steven to shatter anyone. The diamonds would still be subdued and Steven could take on the role of Pink Diamond and establish peace for gems. We learned in diamond days that pink is way stronger than even white diamond, so this should’ve been more than possible. Why redeem dictators when there was such an easy way out?
Because for the plot and to show more story about them
Ouch, poor kid who still haven't had a decent childhood. Now your telling me that she should just:
-ruin a whole society by bubbling their leaders
And
-absolutely throwaway his chance at living his own life without being responsible of others at the prime age of? What, 13???
Have YOU seen steven universe future yet?
Poor buddy haven't gotten a single wink of self and me time with all that responsibility he's juggling
@Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem Honestly, with his treatment of Volleyball mixed with his obsession for things to remain the same and regret over putting the vulnerable Spinel with THOSE THREE, I was kind of expecting this.
Bubbling gems is effectively imprisonment and can warrant some kind of resentment.
@@jasperquartz4612 only if they're let out
Lord Dominator conquers the universe in a badass villain outfit.... and sneakers (best girl in cartoons)
But Hater wears sneakers too.
@@gamefan6219 also best girl in cartoons 💀⚡
@@SuperDrunkdragon Yuh, huh. I "WANDER" if she was inspired by Hater... which is why her armor looks like him.
Converse sneakers. (i think)
Sick grammar everyone
SvsFoE: wipes out all magical life in the Universe
Star Butterfly: "Magic is weird"
can’t be weird if it’s all reduced to dust
One thing I love about WOY's finale is that Wander is willing to give Lord Dominator a chance, but he's not outright forgiving her. Like she has to WORK to redeem herself, just like Hater did.
Obviously she didn't take him up on the offer but it's nice that he learned after his worldview was challenged.
And I'm forever salty we lost out on season 3
TL;DR: Wander Over Yonder is a better representation of genocide than Steven Universe by virtue of having logic
Me: genocide is a serious topic
My brain: HaHa uNdERtaLe
The Sans Boss fight:
One of the darkest moments in any game ever. To get here, you have slaughtered every single monster you have met, including innocent children and bystanders have been murdered by your own hands. Sans has nothing left now, no friends or family, he even knows this world is fake. All he wants is to stop you from becoming a godlike being and destroying everything. You have become the greatest monster in the world.
The internet: HAHA, LOOK ITS SANS UNDERTALE!
If the internet will make fun of real genocide they will make fun of fictional ones
Backtracking to the past. In Off your task is to completely eliminate a world. Clean it and purity it. It is an imperfect world, but you are left in the end with a sour taste in your mouth, the world was flawed, but instead of fixing it, you have eliminated it, in the end you are revealed to be the monster if you choose the judges side, or you pull the switch off.
That’s true... it does get annoying sometimes.
I Just sometimes miss when Undertale was “That cool earthbound homage with good writing and a unique morality system.”
Now it just feels like “That game where that Sans meme came from!”
Man, Off is a really cool game...
Honestly, kind of glad it didn’t become super mainstream.
SU used to know how to do redemptions (look at Peridot), they knew it's a long and difficult process. But then came the diamonds. I could see Blue changing. But not White or Yellow. They could have left something for one more season. Maybe just that season would be them changing. Sadly they couldn't of course, but oh well.
This was never going to happen. They got their budget cut so they could only manage 5 seasons. They only got a sixth after the final did so well.
@@weirdo3116 yeah, exactly. Which absolutely fucking sucms.
im sure they wouldve loved to do that but cn absolutely fucked them over after rebecca let garnet get married lma0
The thing is they didn't attempt it in Steven Universe Future. I get that it was meant to be a reflection of Steven's trauma, but I think that they should have spent the time punishing the diamonds for what they did versus punishing Steven for being a broken child because of the multitude of faulty parental figures (the only one I think was almost flawless was Greg)
@@notacatjustahuman yeah, that would've been great. But of course they didn't.
the diamonds redeemed definitely did not felt earn.
They werent reddemed at all.
Peridot, basically just a narcissistic tryhard, nothing that can really be described as bad, just unlikable at worst, got like an entire season of redemption, and by golly that was probably my favorite arc in the entire series, it was so good.
Diamonds get one episode. Literal space hitlers get one episode of redemption. I dont think so.
@@CorwinTheOneAndOnly Technically the second and third season were to be one season but the cartoon network preferred to split it into two. So the first part is an entire arc about Peridot in the process of redemption and Perola with loneliness problems, and the second part (third season) is an emotional roller coaster about trauma, accepting yourself and the help of others and the signs of that not everything is black and white and breaks Steven's paradigm about the concept of perfection and that not everyone is 100% good when it comes to war.
@@ironman-hg3nh (and then they proceeded to make everyone 100% good later in the series because rebecca sugar)
I feel like they were trying to play it safe tbh
In my opinion, a great way to solve the problem of the "redeemed" diamonds would be to have a new sympathetic villain whose motivations is that the diamonds don't deserve forgiveness and should be punished for their crimes. It would be really interesting and often the best villains are the ones that are technically right.
Coffee Diamond
this would work
edit: specifically because it'll make it clear that some people won't _ever_ forgive them for what they did; makes it look less "and then everyone forgave them for their space colonialism"
I would role with this
You mean me the diamonds should have been executed
@@jspark8990 no he/she meant that a new villan apear with the motive that the diamonds shouldnt be forgiven
Wander over Yonder executed dark themes best in the verse that it is still a cartoon aimed to entertain. It never got "too real", and always bounced on goofy logic to counteract with dark topics.
Themes pertaining to genocide have always been lingering there in WOY season 1. In season 2 it became the main villain characterized. You cant separate mass death from the character Lord Dominator. Any loss got from s2 is always in someway caused by her. In s1, destruction was almost always in the back seat with Wander and Syl however. I can always find some reference to loss in all episodes, especially in the protagonist, but that could just be me.
edit: themes in place of genocide
My favorite is the protagonist. The fandom already has it as our own truth that Wander has been a victim of something big before, the show just doesnt have the guts to spill it.
This is off topic of genocide but yeah. I love this show to pieces.
@@angela.luntian I know this is an old comment
And even though Wander Over Yonder was cancelled and Season 2 seemed like a perfect ending, though there was a cliff-hanger
I inquired about what its final season was supposed to be like since there were minor foreshadowing regarding it
The creator, I believe, said Season 3 will be about something that will be the biggest challenge to Wander
Season 1 was like a goofy introduction to all the characters
Season 2 introduced this bully and developed the personality of characters
Season 3 would’ve probably been something more bad than a bully and it would’ve been a challenge to all
@@angela.luntian And yeah, same, I rewatched the show not too recently and love it even more than I already did
@@PhoenixMario I think S3 would have brought up Wander's past. That has to be his biggest challenge
@@PhoenixMario I know this is an old comment sorry but some of the writers of the show had revealed long ago some of the things that was planned for s3 if you are still curious, I cannot say much on Wander's backstory I never found them say anything on that (I wish we knew more!) BUT I do know they had a huge backstory arc thing with Commander Peepers planned which went into his past and how he ended up so devoted to Lord Hater. I was very intrigued by that, huge shame Disney shut it down I wish we knew more on all their backstories. Writers never revealed the backstory because they didn't want to reveal something so big on a Tumblr post just incase the possibility of s3 came back years later
This is gonna sound weird but there's only one kids show that I remember watching that had a good villain reformation arc and that was Digimon of all things. I'm specifically referring to Ken Ichijouji. It's never brushed off or ignored that he committed atrocious acts. He has to work slowly to gain anyone's trust and he has to acknowledge and work to help fix the mistakes he made. There's even a few characters who refuse to forgive him and all he does is accept it with understanding.
His actions also haunt him personally, not just the regular team like in most shows.
Omg yes. I completely forgot about digimon. And you're right, his redemption actually felt realistic.
Zuko?
@@sirapple589 ngl I kinda forgot about avatar, my bad! I didn't grow up with it so it didn't immediately pop into my head
Hell yeah digimon fan!
From kid's anime: the Fresh season of Pretty Cure also handled it really well with Cure Passion, from what I can remember of it.
And yeah, as a kid I loved Ken's arc. It was really satisfying when he became a good guy.
Reminds me of that fanart of Steven hugging Hitler saying, "It's okay, guys. He says he is sorry!" with Hitler giving a small smile
Aw cute c: Rebecca would approve.
Sauce?
@@electroflame6188
I have it, want it?
@@BBWahoo yes
The sauce never came
The only thing that keeps Daimonds from coming back to their old ways is Steven. And as soon as something KO's him they going to rekt that and go on a killing spree acros the Galaxy.
Their empire has long been decaying.
Without a hierarchy, it will finally fall apart into thousands of warlords.
Defective members are used in testing, that's efficient, better than letting the power dynamic be divided, by all means white diamond should've killed steven when she first saw him, he's the epitome of the reason why they kill their own, not only that but he's by far the most dangerous
Considering Steven stablished a new social norm through reforms and that the Homeworld was in decay with the diamonds coping with Pink's death, odds are things will be a little more smooth than how they were before.
Radek Jurczak They need a new system
@Stephen Blair 1. Broken infrastructure is everywhere and no one is repairing it.
2. Loss of knowledge about creating more advanced gem models - new synthetics are weak, stupid and very specialized.
3. Abandoned resource bases within the Empire.
4. Soldiers - morons, officers - clowns, bureaucratic apparatus - full fucked up.
5. Different ministries perform the same functions. The orders of the authorities do not reach them, they do not know about the existence of each other.
6. During the last war there was no communication or organization. Garrisons, frontline units, ships of the space fleet were forgotten and destroyed by the Doomsday ray along with the entire planet.
Something that confuses me is why everyone claims the diamonds were redeemed.
They aren't redeemed. They don't have a redemption arc.
Their redemption seems unearned. It feels like when a rich sex offender strongarms their victim into an NDA. The pain, scars, and memories remain, but now they said "sorry" and are still much more powerful than you so you have no to room to complain. Of course people just flat out forgave the Diamonds what else were they going to do? Get stomped by an intergalactic army? Those who suffered the most at the hands of the Diamond Authority no longer even exist. Their redemption is hollow, their tears are vapid.
@@sh4d0w2013 But they didn't get redemption they just became slightly less terrible people for someone they liked. Improvement =/= redemption
@@coldfrost3 So the countless civilizations they destroyed and were in the process of destroying can rest easy now because they feel bad and they feel guilty. It reminds me of that BP South Park sketch in how unintentionally and unironically cynical the diamond's "reformation" arc (I guess) comes across.
I
@@sh4d0w2013 but the thing is: they aren't redeemed.
Steven just used the fact that he's Pink Diamonds son to get them to help him and let him dismantle the empire.
They still don't have a redemption arc despite many people like you believing so.
The diamonds are more like someone's racist old grandma who acts like she's better just because she doesn't want to lose contact with their grandkid.
"Radical Buddhist"
Me: "What, are they going to pacify me to death?"
Radical Buddhist: "No, just regular death."
Brilliant essay on genocide in animation. "Steven Universe" fandom could benefit a lot from it given their frightening willingness to give the Diamond Authority a free pass on intergalactic mass murder.
While you concentrated on "Steven Universe" and "Wander of Yonder" do you have any thoughts on the handling of genocide in "Avatar: The Last Airbender"?
Is anyone actually giving them a free pass? Even within the fandom it's probably the most disliked part of the show aside from the hiatuses
I know this is probably too late, but here's my two cents:
The reason why the handling of genocide is better in Avatar than in Steven Universe is because they're not handwaving it in the show, and the original perpetrator is long-since dead. Sozin's tyrannical ideals are alive and kicking, yes, but Sozin is no Zola.
The other big difference is that in Avatar, the genocide can't be repaired like it can in Steven Universe.
Sonic Badass 2000
I meant the fandom, not in-universe, sorry for not making that clear. From what I've seen, nobody has really defended them, though then again, I haven't gone to the deeper parts of the fandom, so what do I know?
@@bigbangpegasusmaster fandom definitely woobifies the diamonds. i've seen people be more angry at pink diamond for what she did to... the diamonds, apparently, than at the atrocities of the diamond matriarch themselves.
At least in Avatar: The last Air Bender they punish the Lord of Fire Nation and, in the comics, try to make a society of respect between all the nations
"THIS IS NOT A DRILL"
you are correct. it is a breaking point.
HA love it.
@@ShinyGarchompGaming oh my god i-
@@v0idspamz636
I'd call it
"The Gemstone Pulverizanator" myself but whatever.
Purple Spinal No, this is Patrick.
take my fucking like
"Steven Universe is a story about unreasonable parents being humbled by the words of their own innocent childrens" cant argue about that
I guess you can say the diamonds committed gemocide
and the genocide of countless alien species....
This an amazingly nuanced take on this topic and I am amazed to find this video. Anything that I have to say would be just repeating what you've already pointed out. I haven't watched Wander Over Yonder, but I'll be checking it out now.
SU dropped the ball on this and some other serious topics, such as the Diamonds existing in a family unit that's dysfunctional at _best_ and often crosses the territory into completely abusive at worst.
Thank you for this analysis!
Have you watched WOY yet? What did you think of it?
Any praise youve heard about WoY, anything good that other people have said about it, is not an overstatement.
What you said is true but the Diamonds were meant to be dysfunctional.
It does portray the positive message of if you are in a dysfunctional relationship familial or otherwise you can always leave it. It's what pink diamond did in the first place and it's what Steven Universe himself is doing in the opening of his movie.
I wish that Steven Universe would have been treated better during its production. I feel like if the crew were given more room to breathe it would have flourished and not be as simplistic as it is now.
Steven Universe would have benefitted greatly from an additional season to spread out the Diamond’s redemption, or maybe cut some filler, to give some more time to the Diamonds. Nothing can be done anymore so eh.
"Steven, or Pink Diamond if you feel the need to deadname"
*i'm dying*
Avatar the last airbender: Am I a joke to you?
ExoSquad: Hey, pull up a chair. Keep waiting, eventually they'll remember us.
Oh, but he mentioned Legend of Korra.
Jasper Quartz true but their was a great emphasis of genocide in the atla. In the show the fire nation had spread genocide to the air nation leading them to extinction. That’s literally the title Avatar the last airbender. Aang was left the last airbender after the fire nation wiped them out. I think the writers made the fire nation do genocide against the air nation to convince the viewer how deep the world is into the war the the threat the fire nation holds.
@@jasperquartz4612 korra is just avatar lite
@@squashedshibber2684 😂
Wander Over Yonder had the original "I'm the bad guy" song
duh
[ Music ]
PVZ music starts playing
@@Pablo_Martin_aa what 😂
Thanks, genius
About the bismuth scene, bismuth herself implied that they would use the breaking point not only on the diamonds but every enemy they faced. This Is a problem because it would mean killing gems that are in every way victims in there own right and they could be killing a potential ally. Gems like paridot or topaz would be killed as well which is flawed sense gems like paridot simply never had the opportunity to see the world from a different perspective and could very well turn to the good side and gems like topaz who are simply following orders out of fear of being destroyed.
I do think the scene should of brought these up explicitly instead of leaving so much of it up and let the audience decide for themselves but bismuth wanting to kill EVERYONE in there way is flawed. Though the diamonds should of been killed.
absurd potato This is an argument I struggle to accept. Here is what Steven said “Shattering gems.... wouldn’t that make us the same us them” From that statement alone we can conclude that homeworld gems are shatterers. We have been introduced to some homeworld gems and its clear that they do not hesitate to shatter for example Eyeball and the fusion experiments which were from shattered gems of the crystal gems. Also her proposal was in the context of war. So the the other party is attacking. So in your example if topaz and peridot were shattering gems. Shattering them to stop them would not be wrong for simple reasons like we cannot afford to wait for everyone to change as was discussed in the video. Also Bismuth’s main proposal was to shatter the diamonds anyway. After speaking with steven again she mention how ironic it was that she was asking rose not knowing she was pink “To shatter herself” she did not bring up the shattering of homeworld gems again. Plus she says “I would have liberated EVERYONE “ she did not just say she’d free the crystal gems.
First lala, I get what you're saying but your outlook is extremely bleak. They aren't at War anymore and killing people/gems indiscriminately because they are on the other side is exactly what Google the smartphone manufacturers and the Diamonds so behaving in that way would make them just like the adversary.
Arnout Matthew Andrews Yes you are right but as you say “They aren’t at war anymore” we were discussing bimuth’s proposal to rose which was during the war. Again I don’t think its clear that bismuth was suggesting an indiscriminate shattering. The focus was to shatter the diamonds anyway. The iconic Bismuth/Steven convo was bismuth’s frustration on action not taken during the war and we are discussing the merits of that. She feels shes already lost the war because the crystal gems are all gone except the main gang the very thing she wanted to prevent. She even asked steven to shatter her. But yeah given the circumstances aka “Im a diamond too... Im one of you“ card shattering the diamonds is no longer necessary of course given that card would work but as pointed in the video steven’s pacifist approach was before he knew he even had that card.
@@firstlala8972 shattering them isn't necessary, all they need to do is poof them and put them in bubbles. It's a safe and flawless form of containment. Unless someone pops the bubble they can't get out and remember gems take time to recharge and reform so in a battle if they win they can go around afterwards and bubble all the gems that are poofed.
It's not 100% solution as you can imagine that there are many instances where shattering is necessary but it's a much more painless method for everyone.
Should the diamonds be shattered? Yes, but I don't think it's fair to punish people who've only know one way of life for their entire existence.
@dedede feedldee dee the way she uses upper crust more like a insult then anything.
A) she very much rejects homeworld as her home.
B) Rose ask her to make it nonlethal. When she said that Rose's sword was ment to poof and not shatter she very clearly sounded displeased.
"2016 was a dark year for cartoons"
TCW: *laughs in galactic standard as genocide, war crimes, biowarfare and slavery happen*
this dumbass doesnt know shit
That was a series based on already existing media. That and the fact it technically isnt handled very well.
What's TCW?
@@kittykittybangbang9367 star wars the clone wars, an animated "children's show" that was legit darker than the live action movies at some points.
@@user-ft3jq5vi2l Was it the one with CGI animation? Because I remember seeing that show when I was little, though I don't remember the deeper aspects of it.
Interesting point, but I want to note one thing, Dominator wasn't rejected and banished, SHE decided to refuse redemption and leave by herself, alone. Dominator is meant to serve as a cautionary tale about taking redemption and friendship when it's offered to you, not about punishing evil.
Us government in Steven universe: "yeah imma ignore that"
Beach city are the only humans that -count- exist
"The foundation isn't responsible for this"
@@pinhe1350 what foundation are we talking about?
SCP foundation.
@@pinhe1350 oh scp foundation
SU: You killed billions , are basically hitler but with 10,000X the body count and you show everyone that you only believe that you're "superior" to everyone else and all 4 of u are the "Master race" that every gem should strive to be like. What is your rebuttal to all of this?
The Diamond Authority (TDA): We are a sad cuz 1 of us died
SU: so that's the reason you're doing all this
TDA: No she died after we are doing all this
SU: oh you poor thing
Me wanting and aiming to be an actual writer who already wrote the villain of a story to the worst punishment I think you can do to a person : WAT THE F- , WHY WHY WHY Y Y Y Y
@Snoi Med Our Villains everyone and what is their punishment ?
their Punishment is to punish the smart people who actually cared about this damn show
Axeman can I get more information on what you wrote? Just intrigued, really. I’m also in the process of writing a story based around vengeance, and I don’t see many writers touch on the topic because it’s so hard to write well.
Genocide gets forgiven, pearl being a creepy predator gets forgiven, amethyst abusing and traumatizing steven gets forgiven... i'm starting to see a pattern.
Coconut Ducks It's like they try to say something to us? like just let go and live ? ugh, not that easy
@@ELbabotas1 maybe if they hadn't wasted half the show on filler and didn't keep steven as the main character of every episode we could've got more complex episodes.
I was actually watching Wander Over Yonder recently, for the first time in years, and was genuinely caught off guard by these themes and their maturity in handling them
Dominator is legitimately one of my favorite villains if all time. It's a shame Wander got cancelled a season before it was supposed to end.
I'm gonna start telling everyone that the entire story of Steven Universe is because of a sentient rock's human fetish
No one's mentioning this omg
@Dexter clarence Fongkot Greg wasn’t rose’s first
Do it.
Create discord.
“This is not a drill”
*Shows a literal drill*
Star vs the forces of evil is a great example of genocide because the protagonist literally kills off a whole group of magical characters because their magical, and because it fits the situation °~•
Why is it a great example? It's normalizing genocide
Hey, you really nailed this piece. Had a comment to make but it disappeared watching your conclusion.
For Steven Universe, the short format only focused on Steven's POV was super restrictive from the start. And knowing that the show will have a hard time to be kept on air, they focus a lot on background characters that we really never cared for and were not part of the plot. Fans enjoyed the show but wanted more lore about Homeworld and the Diamond Authority and in return, they had a whole arc focused on townies. In the end, the pace has to be accelerated so much that the final feel so rushed.
We don't even get an Amethyst origin arc, as we have it with Garnet or Pearl, just some chapters here and there. Jasper was on the bench, even in the movie, [as a real war veteran with PTSD]. Bismuth was awkwardly stuck with the homeworld gems because... well just because.
We have to agree that not having a team focused on writing [everything was on the shoulders of the storyboard artists] didn't help.
Ah, SVTFOE.
The show where a character tried to stop a genocide by committing genocide.
Fight fire with fire
also, because love
I don't remember star committed a genocide 🧐🧐🧐
There's no clean war, what else could she have done?
A few thoughts on this.
1: I always viewed the Bismuth episode as a challenge to Steven's idealism. I agree that Bismuth is framed as the antagonist in this situation, but it still plants a seed of doubt in Steven's mind that maybe his ideals aren't so easily applicable to the diamonds.
2: Worth acknowledging that part of the reasons the Diamonds were turned around so quickly was executive meddling. Cartoon Network was on the verge of cancelling SU, and so "Future" was essentially the writers using whatever time they had left to wrap up Steven's character arc (which I feel was done well). Had the show been given more time and not forced to insert so many slice-of-life filler episodes, it might have been able to do the redemption arc differently.
3: Part of why Steven's authority worked on the Diamonds was that he was able to show them the consequences of their own ideals. He directly challenged their perception of hierarchal perfection, which lead them to change their ways. Is it idealistic? Absolutely. But I would argue there's a place for idealism in fiction, and though the subtext was muddled, creating the unfortunate implications you pointed out, I do think there is perhaps a grain of optimism we can take from the show's ending: that to achieve redemption, the first step is acknowledging what you did wrong, and then taking steps to fix it.
4: What would shattering the diamonds have achieved? They could kill the genocidal fascist dictators, but then what? They wouldn't have the powers needed to heal the corrupted/cracked gems, and they wouldn't have addressed the systemic problem of rigid cast systems and hierarchies. Steven Universe is a fundamentally Anarchist story, whether the writers intended it or not. It takes a stance of restorative justice over retribution, tackling the root causes of why the system of imperialism was put there in the first place. By breaking down the unjust hierarchies, gem kind can rebuild into a new, better society we see in future.
5: The Diamonds were never redeemed. Sure, presenting their actions in future as goofy/friendly was a step too far, but they are also still shown to not fully understand why they were wrong. They are on the path to redemption, but were never shown to be like Peridot. In addition, future further deconstructs its own idealism through the use of Jasper, who won't let go of the hierachal might-makes-right superiority, and so Steven is forced to fight back to earn her respect.
TL;DR: I agree that the themes of genocide in Steven Universe were muddled and mishandled. But I disagree that it's as bad as you suggest, and that there's more subtext to be found which makes it less clear cut.
I think there is a major difference between the two shows you are showing, and that is the power residing within the "evil beings":
The diamonds are more than dictators, they are nominal gods or the rest of the gems, for they can literally manufacture them (There's another argument to be had here, is artificial life deserving of rights, as gems are practically that). Whereas Bismuth weapon could have been used to kill diamonds, is uncertain, as none of them have ever died (this can be shown by the shock that Pink diamond's dissapearance caused), and is not clear if they can even die at all, nor have they even been beaten on direct combat.
Therefore, a pacifist approach is needed. You have gods with extreme power to beat, and such a thing cannot be done. The only thing you can do is make them see the wrong of their ways if possible, and that is what the show ends up achieving.
I actually think this is the most realitic approach the show could have ever taken.
Wonder over Yonder was an amazing show perfect story, characters, and end. And I absolutely LOVE that they didn't redeem her
Many people assume the Diamonds were, all in all, Redeemed. As if they were forgiven. But its obvious that none of the gems forgive them. As long as they can keep the Diamonds from continuing what they've done, and can keep the Universe safe from them, they, as much as Steven, sees no reason to pursue any more negativity toward them. Who knows, maybe Steven Universe Future will touch on that. But the Diamonds were not redeemed. Every gem thus far still shows dislike or even fear. And it isn't like Steven HAS the power to give the Diamonds a just punishment, as He, and many people, believe that death is not a punishment. It's a quick way out to get away from being punished. They scrape along with what they were able to get. To push it too far would be to risk it all just to see the Diamonds be punished, when the Diamonds are in, all ways, still able to literally obliterate planets. They simply won't because of Steven.
The long and short of it is this- The Diamonds STILL have their authority. And their power. To try and usurp that and punish the Diamonds for their past actions would be to ask the Diamonds to destroy the planets again. They still think themselves all powerful, and could react violently to being told off. Its better to hold them at bay and halt their terror than to risk it starting again by trying to gain retribution. They already have what they wanted. A Universe thats free. As Long as they can keep that, they don't need to worry.
Well, I say that, but I do agree the Diamonds need to pay for their actions. But I don't believe they need to die for them. But how would you go about punishing 3 very tall very large and powerful beings?
that's a good point. I was wondering if it was even possible form them to get revenge on demigodlike beings
Call Kratos in his youth, or Doomguy.
It's pretty clear now that the diamonds aren't feared anymore and they're repentant and have changed their mind about every wrong thing they held to be true to boot. So now they're righting all their wrongs with a smile on their face.
@@axelradish8913 yep. Theyre even reversing the death and destruction, something not possible irl. But because its possible there, now its quite different.
@@bonefetcherbrimley7740 this is immensely funny/ironic to me. At least the kratos part
Nice work on your video.
I do have 2 points of contention with it.
1) while I do agree with most of your criticism on the Bismuth episode, you kind of gloss over the fact that Bismuth did try to intentionally kill Steven for their disagreement. While I dont think this makes her a villain, they don't store her away for no reason.
2) while this was made before the release of the movie, it would've been great to bring up Spinel as a comparison here too as she is also someone who parallels Dominator's want for mass genocide but again SU tries to make her sympathetic and her wanting to destroy a planet for being ghosted a rational response.
Thank you for this constructive comment! :)
1) You're right that Bismuth does try to shatter Steven, but I interpret that scene as Bismuth thinking she's fighting Rose until possibly her last line before being re-bubbled. Her motive is actually to kill the person who imprisoned her and threw away her idea, which in her view resulted in the death and/or corruption of almost everyone she ever loved. It has less to with Steven and more to do with Rose and the fallout from the war.
2) Spinel IS sympathetic, at least in my eyes. Plus her body count is 0, so give the girl a break.
@@WeRNotAlive
1) True, but it's pretty much stated that Bismuth tried doing the same thing to Rose as well. I'm all for critiquing Rose but Bismuth also tried to fight and probably kill Rose as well. Not saying she should've been shattered but getting bubbled for a little bit is a fair thing to help her calm down.
2) How is she different from the Diamonds? She doesn't get a body count but she also does try to destroy a planet because they felt bad. Hell I could make an arugement it's worse for Spinel because the Diamonds at least had their world views challenged. Spinel, after getting stood up, decides to blow up a planet but never understands why she did was wrong. She just powered through her temper tantrum.
1) Bismuth says “I didn’t want to fight you, but you left me no choice” which is sorta ambiguous about how it went down. Though I think if she was unambiguously the one who attacked Rose then yeah she got poofed for a good reason. Thousands of years of imprisonment is never justified though. Which brings me to...
2) Spinel suffered a really traumatic experience. What she tried to do matters, but she is not worse than the diamonds because the diamonds normalized mass murder and Spinel was committing a crime of passion. Big difference morally and legally.
@@WeRNotAlive 1) the thousands years of imprisonment is harsh but that's the creators not thinking through Rose's character because she could've and would've easily brought her back after the corruption but we needed the mystery/stinger for the 100th episode
2) The reason I argue its worst for Spinel is not because her crime didn't have a higher body count is because 1 trying to commit mass murder, even in passion should not be rationalized or excused, and her getting a freudian excuse and being treated as a victim for her reaction does that. And 2, she doesn't even go through an arc like the half baked ones the diamonds did. She just gets through her tantrum and says oops. She never understands what or why what she did was wrong nor did the series ever challenge her on her actual problem of overreacting to not getting an immediate emotional connection. She needs to learn how to be alone and to not go to 11 when she is mistreated. Getting abandoned? Bad. Trying to kill an entire planet for being abandoned? Worse.
1) Sure, we can throw up our hands and say “it’s bad writing.” But I’d rather take what happened in the show and face value when interpreting it. Author intention is of lesser importance.
2) Nobody is saying Spinel is a rational actor, but consequentially she’s a “school shooter who blames bullying” by gem standards. To use a real world analogy, I’d say that a tech CEO ordering the mining of coltan from Congo does far more human harm than even the most deadly school shooter. And again, Spinel’s body count is 0
Disappointed that you didn't mention "As Told By Ginger" as one of the Nickelodeon shows that handled more serious topics than normal cartoons.
Steven Universe a show that shots intselt in the foot every time it could.
All from constant changing motivations to trying to humanize Monsters as in the (Ultra mega Hitlers kind) into a happy ending.
That said I still see good in Steven Universe
But Star VS...
A show whose end made me loathe the protagonist i was supposed to root for and ruined the show in a retrospective for me, it takes talent to make an ending so bad the I cant stomach to watch any episode ever again. Is not a bad ending is a Thanos wins but worse kind of devastation on a multiverse level and you are supposed to root for her ( Multiversal genocide, dimension merging, annihilation of cultures, breaking of all pathways thru a previously fluid universe...and inhalation of what they established as a Force of reality to stop...what comes to a Civil war, a horrible one but a civil war in one kingdom )
I never understood why people referred it to Trump’s America. Yeah, I agree with what you said. The Diamonds should not be left with no consequences at the end of the day. At least Lord Dominator ended up alone and with no support.
Diamonds are too overpowered to face consequences, Steven and others can't lay a finger on them.
Either there should be a force even more powerful that would cooperate with heroes to make them pay or... they shouldn't have been so strong to begin with so conclusion wouldn't be so damn unsatisfying.
@@sephiriza The fusion of all the main characters fighting White diamond would have been awesome. Instead it just climbed the giant robot and then defused.
Maybe something different like the diamonds being destroyed by the cluster, the embodiment of their crimes. Or Steven fusing with the diamonds forcing them to see his thought, feeling and memories. It at least would have been a more believe turn.
@Ironbay Knight G Why even care to begin with? America has no responsibility to invaders.
@Ironbay Knight G yes, we should totally leave loosen up border control while we have a world epidemic, yes.
Because the types of people that hate trump are incapable of writing serious nuance'd political stories
To be clear, i dont like him, but besides his rhetoric he is basically just a less religious conservative with maybe one or two nationalist policies
The idea that he is this machiavellian figure solely responsible for everything going on in america is dumb, and anyone that can see this has enough good knowledge of the world to be capable of writing actually decent political commentary
I’m just going to tell you this first fusion is of I have no mouth, and I must scream levels of torture and torment
i really didnt like the way they handled the diamonds in SU because it never felt like there were ever any stakes to any conflict because steven would just say "you dont have to do this" and by the end of the episode the enemy was now an ally. i wanted the diamonds to be different, i wanted for there to finally be an enemy that couldnt be good or had to die to be redeemed or just anything other than "you're right, i dont have to do this" like everything else was. i was fine when yellow and blue were redeemed, because i was holding out for white to be shattered or imprisoned in a bubble. but then steven meets her and calls her a child and now everything is OK and she is good now and she promises to not kill any other planets. there was so much set up only for it to all come crashing down and honestly was such a disappointing conclusion to a series i was slowly losing my hope in
That's an important lesson for kids in Wander. 97% of the time, an enemy's just a friend you haven't gotten to know, and you just need to talk to them, compromise, hug it out, have a dance off! That other 3%, though, when you meet an irredeemably evil hate-filled mass murderer? Well, sometimes you just gotta shove their own doomsday weapon where the sun don't shine.
I believe this was the first video of yours I ever watched and I'm revisiting it because I haven't thought about it in a while and I think it offers some great insight
Steven Universe Message: If cosmic super Hitler shows up you should try to be his friend.
Pretty much
Holy crap you put a lot of effort into this video good job 😁👍
I think there was an elegant and interesting way to """"""""""redeem"""""""""" the Diamonds, which they didn't really go for- And that would be to really play up the *necessity* of the """"""""""redemption"""""""""""
As in- the Diamonds are *monumentally* important and powerful. They NEED their co-operation to heal the corrupted gems, and they CAN'T actually "beat" them- they're too powerful to take down.
If they'd played up how uncomfortable and repulsed all the characters were by the Diamonds, and presented reasoning with/appealing to these...malevolent physical goddesses as the ONLY option, then it could've been pretty nuanced and interesting. The idea of like... That tension, that fear- Having to find alternative solutions even when they aren't *good*, because at least they're *better*- and That's the first step.
...I mean. If nothing else it would've been better than making them wholly sympathetic and handwaving their crimes- just make all the characters in universe *pretend* to hand wave their crimes because it's the only option, but make it clear that they kinda hate doing it and find it uncomfortable.
While you touched on it briefly, I'd also add there are millions of gems who still look to the Diamonds for support and structure, despite all of the atrocities they've committed. Even if Steven and the Crystal Gems could shatter The Diamonds, they'd risk making Homeworld society unstable and violent -- leading to the loss of more lives and likely even their own. After all, gems have worshipped the Diamonds for millennia and assassinating them (or removing them from power wholly) would result in (most likely) riots, anarchy, and a call for the death of every Crystal Gem.
But that's what made the diamonds seem so bothersome and a little fake. They still have all this power and dominance and yet they suddenly just chose to lose all what they've learned by the creatures they usually thought knew less. That's what bothered other people, because the show tackled on a serious topic then just left that important part out of sight. Their redemption arc is absolutely necessary since they were one of the biggest problems in SU.
this works, yeah
You're Lily Orchard but better.
What about his "Lily Orchard but better?"
@@MeowMeowMeowX3333 what do you mean, exactly?
K209 Bros he’s pointing out your mistake in grammar. You used “Your” instead of “You’re” (you are)
@@TeegMonkey Sorry about that
@@vossboss220 I wasn't insulting him at all. I fully agreed with his thesis of the video. Unlike Lily, he literally brought a lot of evidence to support his claim, and was very informative about it. I hope he continues making this type of format.
What if you just gave Hitler a sad villain song halfway through WWII and then he was just told to not hate Jews by his wife?
That feeling I get when someone who understands art and politics and applies the 2 to form something like this: I'm impressed and pleased with this demonstration (and that plug for the Human Rights advocacy groups was perfect).
I agree with you definitely on Steven Universe.
It's telling that the show decided to demonize and tear down the character who fought the regime, abdicated their status, was the most sympathetic to humans to the point of wanting to die just to have a kid with a human they fell in love with and that was literally the only diamond not to commit genocide ever, as opposed to the diamond authority.
Aka the people who emotionally abused and tortured Pink in the first place, enforced their genocidal policy even when killing sentient species wasn't required in the slightest, enslaved their own race, abandoned countless gems in the exact same way that spinel was ETC.
Every time someone says "Pink was the real villain of the series" I physically cringe inside.
Pink is pretty terrible herself for a multitude of reasons, but it's always grossed me out how the show and fandom painted her as the "real villain" when it was clearly never her
Like no matter how you look at it or what you think of Pink Diamond, the real villains of SU are the other 3 diamonds for continuing to perpetuate their genocides
ok I got something to say about the diamonds and queen butterfly not facing the consequences of they’re actions, and that is how many tyrants have faced Justice in our world, the answer not many.
Clone Wars: *nervous laughter*
I mean, i feel like wander over yonder only managed to execute this well because they got canceled before they could do anything else with it.
I don't think Rose decided to save the Earth just to get some sweet human ass. It's shown throughout the series that she appreciates many different forms of life. I agree with everything else you've said though.
imagine if wander over yonder was still airing ❤️🙂❤️
As someone who’s been studying storytelling and music. Every time I see the word “theme” in a video I want to watch, it’s a gamble which I benefit from either way
>Genocide
Me, like Stellaris player: Hey, that's pretty good!
Gotta feed my people somehow
If wanting to delve deeper into this topic, the show Invader Zim is a VERY good example of this kind of topic. Though it can be played off as humor, it includes many real issues- like emotional neglect with Professor Membrane. And with Zim? Pure abandonment. The Irk species is a prime example of a dictator race. The tallest are leader, the shortest are frowned upon. And if you speak up and show emotion? You're a defect. Yeah they literally call them defective. In an unfinished episode of Invader Zim called "The Trial." It scans through important moments in Zim's life that define him. He seeks approval from the tallest and is declared defective. He's even told that he destroys everything he touches, that he's some monster. When in fact it's shown Zim is brilliant in his own way- hell he even took down his own species! Imagine what this short green alien could do if the tallest gave him his rank back? Let's not forget, the show is even called INVADER Zim when it's immediately proven that Zim isn't an official Invader. He's just a exiled fry cook who use to be an Invader. Dib has lore too, nobody believes him. On almost everything- he's right. But it's written out that most of humanity are sloppy- ignorant messes. Mrs. Bitters delves into her past and says hey- she use to be a girl who wanted to be a fairy. But society crushed her dreams. Dib and Zim are all the other has, and they hate each other for the most part excluding episodes where they work together and do it well. I'd bet if they teamed up they could probably destroy Earth or destroy the Irken race. Though, all this isn't written clearly as the show was sadly cancelled due to unpopularity and the horror of it to children. The show was declared "too scary" for little kids and it is. There is a lot more lore behind the screaming and crude humor of the show. It's sad that it was ignored when it came out.
I interpret Steven saying shattering goes a step too far as just.... This is a child, thrown in the middle of a bloody, bloody war, raised by people who've taught him the value of life, of course he'd see death and forced fusion as bad, because they are, both are terrible things and this is a child
Honestly, I wasn't aware of any of the specifics of the real-world situations you talked about in this video before you brought them to my attention. Thank you for that, I'm rather ashamed that I managed to ignore something like that for so long. It's not like I didn't know the world was a terrible place, I just chose to ignore the specifics. So again, thanks for opening my eyes and giving me a way to help, even if it's a small way.
*Non-human species, known collectively as monsters*
_UNDERTALE intensifies!!!!!!_
I never thought i would hear, "Genocide" and cartoon in the same sentence.
Thank you for telling me about the International Rescue Committee. I just sent a donation off to them.
Avatar the last airbender where a literal country and culture was in genocide:
👁👄👁
The first time I saw the big gem experiment form I nearly shat myself, they didn't shy away from showing the entities in the gem fragments being in tremendous pain.
I adore the viewpoint you shed on the video! It’s a fantastic one. I especially love the breakdown of SU.
IMO, the shards weren’t just thinking of torment. They were fragments of consciousness, emphasized by FRYBO, who was made of a single gem shard. It is unknown how specifically that works, unfortunately.
CN rushed the ending. It made the diamonds feel too easily swayed. It would’ve taken much, much longer to understand steven’s side. That’s why everything feels so forced.
The personalities of the crystal gems are a lot more open to weakness than expected. They suppressed their feelings however, which plays a major part in why they stayed “broken”
Also, “whats the use of *feeling* blue?” Implied they suppressed their emotions for a greater cause, something that is highlighted throughout the series as the negative ideology. Like a part of toxic masculinity, where the man is expected not to show emotion when in reality discussion of one’s feelings is vital to understanding others and themselves, and to destroy the barrier of anonymity towards opposing forces. *thats why the diamonds 180°’d on Steven AFTER finding out his relation with them*
Their discussion of things with steven has slowly but surely been having an impact. It happened during the time skip. Still felt a little rushed though
Really in-depth and insightful feedback! Thank you :)
I just noticed that dominator wears what looks like converse shoes
Daaaaaamn you don't miss a punch with the irl problems. Some i didn't even knew of.
Subbed.
Sonic The Hedgehog 2 has a scrapped Level called "Genocide City Zone" !
Is turning everyone into robots considered genocide or is it just slavery taken to its logical extreme?
As much as I love Steven Universe, I'm honestly upset about the Diamonds being redeemed. With the atrocities committed, it made NO sense for the Crystal Gems to host shrug it off. I can understand if Steven thinks things can be solved, but Pearl and the other gems, who went through and witnessed what the Diamonds have done, could have EASILY spun the moral. To teach kids that not everyone can be reasoned with, not everyone can be forgiven, and that there are consequences in life. As much as I like the Diamonds pre- and post- season 5, I honestly think the show would have been better off resolving the Diamonds as Lord Dominator was at the VERY least, shattered at best.
Very impressive video essay. You’ve explained the nature of my reign of terror and it’s implications far better than I could.
You aren't real
"The entire plot of Steven Universe only happens because Pink Diamond is a teratophile" wasn't the take I was expecting but a take I am fully on board with
That's what the writing gives us!
Yes and no
i really miss wander over yonder
A great example that comes to mind over a genocide being resolved diplomatically is in Malazan (A big ass book series).
In one of those books the leaders of a big empire has used the wickans, a smaller ethnic populace, as a scapegoat and is using propaganda to make their failings look like the results of atrocities the wickans have caused and are conducting large scale pogroms against them to clear out their land for farms and industry. The wickans could conduct a resistance movement of guerrilla warfare like the empire is expecting them to but they are hopelessly outnumbered and every act of aggression would play directly into the image the empire has made of the wickans and turn more against them. They could maybe win in such a conflict but it would be hugely costly. So instead they wait until the climax of one of the books where the empire is in a close battle with an other big bad when the wickans show up and save the empire like Gandalf at helms deep in a public display before the leadership and military of the empire. The empire, in an already shaky position after other events, would risk mutiny at best if they tried to continue genocide against the wickans as no amount of propaganda can beat the thousands of people who just saw the wickans save the day first hand, so they have to stop and act like the pogroms were a silly harmless mistake perpetuated solely by members of the leadership who are conveniently dead. But this isnt like SU stopping genocide with the power of love and friendship, the book makes it clear this is a cynical political maneuver, the lesson isnt "dont fight against genocidal regimes because violence is wrong and never the answer" like in SU, the lesson is "Violence is sometimes the answer but its better to be cunning and see if you can find a resolution with minimal bloodshed before dedicating to it". And also the villains arent redeemed or misunderstood, the empire is still the ruthless pragmatic dictatorship it was, its threat towards the wickans has just been neutralized. Its also really satisfying to see the villains who use propaganda and public image as their weapon get that turned against them.
Some might say thats still problematic because the empire is still at large and free to oppress others, but I find that darkly poignant, as for most smaller disenfranchised minorities, defeating the larger more powerful oppressor is a fantasy beyond reach, for them its often just about survival.
This video was very well done and interesting, thanks for teaching us how even cartoons made for children can have very well written and insightful stories.
Me: *hears genocide*
Also me: *HEAVY undertale flashbacks*
Hitler bout to have a bad time
the 2013-2015 pac man show had genocide too. Pac Man's entire race got wiped out by.... actually, I don't think they ever got around to actually revealing who did it. The first while it's assumed to be Betrayus, but then it turned out some Terminator expy, who turned out to be hired by some unknown force, and then it turns out the aliens might be keeping them prisoner, maybe???? Shame it was cancelled, it would have been nice to figure out what was going on.
Riveris - Bless you for knowing this. Few people alive remember the ghost wars.