Thanks for the video Josh!!!! Saturation on the individual channels creates less inter-modulation distortion, this is why it's better to push less on your master bus and work more on the individual tracks if your goal is loudness
True! Definitely much better to do things at the individual track/mix level but unfortunately a lot of young mix engineers are mixing into heavy limiting on their mixbus. I wish I could find whoever told them all that was a good idea haha.
Bruce Swedien had two fantastic sentences! 1. Compressors are for children. Someone asked him if he'd ever been invited to judge the Grammy Awards 2. No, because they know that any song with limiters and compressors on master was immediately disqualified. 😂 Thanks for your work Josh!
This is some pretty sound advice! Even though I do use limiting while mastering (although no more than roughly 2 dB of gain reduction) to get that extra LuFS, I always make sure I have a good crest factor on my mix before going into mastering by using methods like the ones you laid out here (and I NEVER mix with a limiter on my 2bus - I don't care if X famous engineer does it. It's only detrimental, because it weakens transients and causes unneeded intermodulation distortion).
Thanks! Just to be clear, I also use limiting when mastering but that's usually when I'm mastering my own mixes where I haven't used limiting on the mix bus. The tips in this particular video can really help when you unfortunately do get those mixes that already hit a bunch of limiting in the mix phase. It's a shame, I really wish mix engineers that do that would stop. It really paints you into a corner that's difficult to work with. Thanks for taking the time to check out the video and comment, it's very much appreciated!
What you're talking about is called crest factor, which is he difference between the peaks and the RMS. Our art has terms that describe our work; we should all learn to use the terms of our art. Otherwise, nice video.Oh, I should add: using a tape emulator *does* do some destruction; it's maybe not the same as limiting exactly, but it's basically the same thing. So, while you avoid using a limiter, you're doing the same thing. It's just a choice of how to do it.
There are videos out there promoting the use of 2 different limiters to achieve loudness. This approach delivers better sonic results to my ears so I wanted to share it. It's not meant to be overly technical(yes I'm aware of what crest factor is) and no, using tape or the other methods listed here are not basically the same as limiting. In some technical explanation...maybe...but in real world use with how it actually sounds, it's very much different.
Couldn't agree more about wanting to let music breathe instead of always squashing it with a limiter. This is the first I've seen your channel -- just subscribed.
Great tip, thanks ! I use a limiter on individual tracks to chop a little bit of the extreme peaks before going into a compressor. On the masterbus I have some multiband compression and a bus compressor which I mix into. The mixdown is considered a premaster and I’ll make a simple ‘master’ for cranking it up. I regret that everything has to be cranked to the limits these days, makes my old recordings sound way to soft. It is what it is 😅
Same here! I really wish we as an industry could find our way back to a better standard that preserves dynamic range(that isn't ATMOS LOL). I totally agree with how you use limiters going into a compressor, that can work great on a lead vocal in particular!
Love your videos Josh and these are good tips that I use in practice everyday. I would however say it’s a little disingenuous to say you got all that level with no limiting if the original master was already limited. Also, most commercial masters I hear are -6lufs or louder, which is gross, but almost impossible to achieve with absolutely no limiting.
Well, keep in mind this has been put into practice for years over many, many masters so don't get too caught up on this one example. I've done the exact same thing many times with tracks I've mixed and mastered that had absolutely no limiting on the mixbus so nothing disingenuous about it :) I can absolutely get to -6(I hate when I have to) in a much more pleasing way with this method. Sure, there will usually be some minimal limiting at the end when I have to get that loud, but I still much prefer this over some other methods like using TWO limiters which just sounds terrible to me.
@@SeawellStudios the idea of using small amounts of processes (clipping, saturation, harmonics, etc..) in sequence is definitely the way to go. I get client mixes all the time that are absolutely destroyed by a limiter and like you, I usually try to steer less experienced mixers towards other solutions. With an experienced hand, judicious use of a little limiting can sound great.
@@lordpilkington yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying never use limiting. I'm just saying there are a lot of people that are leaning on it way too heavily when there are better ways. Why there are so many young mixers using 5-6 db of limiting on their mixbus I'll never understand but I'm sure there's some video out there that told them it was a good idea haha.
Fun fact: Tchad Blake uses limiting on his master bus during mixing. But... 9 times out of 10 it doesn't do anything. Andrew Scheps on the other hand... Sonnox Oxford Limiter, 3-4dB GR on peaks... Why???
Tchad is awesome, I had the privilege of attending a small webinar with him through mix with the masters a few years ago and he couldn’t have been a nicer, more genuine guy. Regarding Scheps, if I had to guess, guys that use that much limiting got tired of mastering engineers destroying all their hard work so they tried to leave them will less to do. It sucks but I’ve had that happen with some albums I mixed. I don’t think it’s ideal though but he certainly seems to be doing fine with his approach. I appreciate you taking the time to watch & comment! 👊🏼
Thanks for the video Josh!!!! Saturation on the individual channels creates less inter-modulation distortion, this is why it's better to push less on your master bus and work more on the individual tracks if your goal is loudness
True! Definitely much better to do things at the individual track/mix level but unfortunately a lot of young mix engineers are mixing into heavy limiting on their mixbus. I wish I could find whoever told them all that was a good idea haha.
Awesome
Bruce Swedien had two fantastic sentences!
1. Compressors are for children.
Someone asked him if he'd ever been invited to judge the Grammy Awards
2. No, because they know that any song with limiters and compressors on master was immediately disqualified. 😂
Thanks for your work Josh!
Haha he was a true legend! Thanks for taking the time to check out the video and comment, I truly appreciate it.
i liked your video, i think it's pretty good.
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
This is some pretty sound advice! Even though I do use limiting while mastering (although no more than roughly 2 dB of gain reduction) to get that extra LuFS, I always make sure I have a good crest factor on my mix before going into mastering by using methods like the ones you laid out here (and I NEVER mix with a limiter on my 2bus - I don't care if X famous engineer does it. It's only detrimental, because it weakens transients and causes unneeded intermodulation distortion).
Thanks! Just to be clear, I also use limiting when mastering but that's usually when I'm mastering my own mixes where I haven't used limiting on the mix bus. The tips in this particular video can really help when you unfortunately do get those mixes that already hit a bunch of limiting in the mix phase. It's a shame, I really wish mix engineers that do that would stop. It really paints you into a corner that's difficult to work with. Thanks for taking the time to check out the video and comment, it's very much appreciated!
Great videos, keep em coming
I really appreciate the encouragement! I definitely will 👊🏼
What you're talking about is called crest factor, which is he difference between the peaks and the RMS. Our art has terms that describe our work; we should all learn to use the terms of our art. Otherwise, nice video.Oh, I should add: using a tape emulator *does* do some destruction; it's maybe not the same as limiting exactly, but it's basically the same thing. So, while you avoid using a limiter, you're doing the same thing. It's just a choice of how to do it.
There are videos out there promoting the use of 2 different limiters to achieve loudness. This approach delivers better sonic results to my ears so I wanted to share it. It's not meant to be overly technical(yes I'm aware of what crest factor is) and no, using tape or the other methods listed here are not basically the same as limiting. In some technical explanation...maybe...but in real world use with how it actually sounds, it's very much different.
Great video bro!!
Thanks dude! 👊🏼
Couldn't agree more about wanting to let music breathe instead of always squashing it with a limiter. This is the first I've seen your channel -- just subscribed.
I really appreciate the sub! I hope you'll find a lot more content here that interests you. Thanks!
Great tip, thanks !
I use a limiter on individual tracks to chop a little bit of the extreme peaks before going into a compressor. On the masterbus I have some multiband compression and a bus compressor which I mix into. The mixdown is considered a premaster and I’ll make a simple ‘master’ for cranking it up.
I regret that everything has to be cranked to the limits these days, makes my old recordings sound way to soft. It is what it is 😅
Same here! I really wish we as an industry could find our way back to a better standard that preserves dynamic range(that isn't ATMOS LOL). I totally agree with how you use limiters going into a compressor, that can work great on a lead vocal in particular!
i was wondering, what do you think of the kjaerhus mpl 1 pro limiter?
I haven't tried that one yet. I appreciate the recommendation, I'll check it out 👍🏼
Love your videos Josh and these are good tips that I use in practice everyday. I would however say it’s a little disingenuous to say you got all that level with no limiting if the original master was already limited. Also, most commercial masters I hear are -6lufs or louder, which is gross, but almost impossible to achieve with absolutely no limiting.
Well, keep in mind this has been put into practice for years over many, many masters so don't get too caught up on this one example. I've done the exact same thing many times with tracks I've mixed and mastered that had absolutely no limiting on the mixbus so nothing disingenuous about it :)
I can absolutely get to -6(I hate when I have to) in a much more pleasing way with this method. Sure, there will usually be some minimal limiting at the end when I have to get that loud, but I still much prefer this over some other methods like using TWO limiters which just sounds terrible to me.
@@SeawellStudios the idea of using small amounts of processes (clipping, saturation, harmonics, etc..) in sequence is definitely the way to go.
I get client mixes all the time that are absolutely destroyed by a limiter and like you, I usually try to steer less experienced mixers towards other solutions.
With an experienced hand, judicious use of a little limiting can sound great.
@@lordpilkington yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying never use limiting. I'm just saying there are a lot of people that are leaning on it way too heavily when there are better ways. Why there are so many young mixers using 5-6 db of limiting on their mixbus I'll never understand but I'm sure there's some video out there that told them it was a good idea haha.
Fun fact: Tchad Blake uses limiting on his master bus during mixing. But... 9 times out of 10 it doesn't do anything. Andrew Scheps on the other hand... Sonnox Oxford Limiter, 3-4dB GR on peaks... Why???
Tchad is awesome, I had the privilege of attending a small webinar with him through mix with the masters a few years ago and he couldn’t have been a nicer, more genuine guy.
Regarding Scheps, if I had to guess, guys that use that much limiting got tired of mastering engineers destroying all their hard work so they tried to leave them will less to do. It sucks but I’ve had that happen with some albums I mixed. I don’t think it’s ideal though but he certainly seems to be doing fine with his approach. I appreciate you taking the time to watch & comment! 👊🏼