I went vegan 5 days ago!💚 Edit: Woah, didn't expect to even get one like lol thanks! Also, thanks to all of you congratulating and complementing me! Your comments have made me cry. My mental "health" is a literal hell right now. You have no idea how much you are helping someone with writing these comments. I love you all so much! 💚 Edit 2: Still vegan and I love it! It’s sooooo easy!
Hi! Elizabeth from the video :) I decided to hop on over like the rest of my peeps. I understand a lot of vegans are confused and maybe upset by my answers so I'm hoping to clarify some of the things that were said. My approach is not to be “passive” or make people feel “comfortable.” It is to make them receptive, which definitely won’t happen if they feel judged. I can appreciate Richard’s points of view, but we have different approaches and that’s ok! I also was not implying Iceland is a food desert but was speaking from a personal experience working with an NGO. I was not in control of where I’d be assigned to go or what food would be available. The NGO provided the food and transportation and I was probably about 95% vegan during this time-I still considered myself vegan because my ethical intentions never changed. For some of the time I worked in greenhouses which were great because they make fresh fruits and vegetables available in an environment that would be otherwise impossible to grow produce in. So to address mic’s point- I do believe doing that work was worthwhile because it promoted projects that would make fresh produce more largely available in the country in the long term. In our compassion toward animals and our planet, let’s not forget that a large chunk of humanity struggles to feed themselves and their families. They will resort to what is practicable and possible for them- instead of condemning that, we need to help shift the food supply chain and mindset toward a vegan norm. & Thanks for the video!
Thanks Elizabeth!! This comment was very insightful and I fully understand your position even though my approach is more like Richard's. There's more than one right way to activism. You do you
As a non vegan who watched that video, Richard really turned me off to the idea of veganism because of the way he presented the info. So he kind of deserves to get criticized by others, especially vegans who want to spread their message.
@@Goat.Cheese He didn't soften your ego when he told you that slaughtering animals unnecessarily is very bad. You poor thing, you are the real victim here aren't you? He said things as they are in an honest way. Do you want him to kiss your ass or something?
Emily okay, so get this: i like dog fighting. i also really like kicking dogs. but one day, i met this dude who told me that he doesn't kick dogs or participate in dog fighting, because he believes it's immoral. but he was just honestly kind of annoying and presented the information in a way that bothered me, so it really turned me off from the idea of not kicking dogs. 🤷🏼♂️ so therefore i think he deserves criticism, and i'm gonna keep kicking dogs and making them fight, simply because that one guy rubbed me the wrong way. edit: just for clarification this is a hypothetical extension of the logic that you are using. just clarifying because i don't want someone to see this and think i actually abuse animals.
I hope all these comments don't turn you away from veganism all the way.. Every small step is important and great... Noone is perfect and striving for perfection is just stupid especially because it turns so many people away from even trying to eat less meat 😭😔
Please dont strive to be like that. People like that guy push people away from veganism because of the hash, judgemental attitude. You dont have to compromise, just be nicer than that guy.
@@Goat.Cheese How was he not nice? And what do you know about what works and what doesn't? Are you a social psychologist? Some of the most effective activists are honest and candid in their approach. Vegan Gains has been credited with turning many people vegan and Joey Carbstrong is truthful and uncompromising. Wishy washy vegans don't make for good activists because they make people feel comfortable with exploitation. I've been vegan for 23 years. I've seen all the approaches and I know what works. Back in the 90s it was Meat is Murder, then animal organisations promoted so called humane meat and now we are back at honest, no compromising activism because the watered down, "in bed with the exploiters" method did the animals a disservice. People don't need to be made to feel good about their exploitative ways. They need their cognitive dissonance disrupted, not nurtured.
Hey Mic, Richard here, I just wanted to say thank you so much for making this response video! I'm so glad we agree on so much, I have been watching you ever since I first went vegan. You actually said a lot of what I said, which ended up cut out of the video. I think you're amazing as well! I practically just screamed in excitement while watching this the whole time. Maybe I'll eventually learn to calm down, the urgency of the matter just gets me fired up haha. Again, thanks for making this, I look forward to all your future videos! 💜
Hey Richard, the points you made in the video were valid. Don't get upset by mean comments in the original video comments section. Some people are just not ready to hear the truth.
You killed it out there dude! The people talking trash in the comments were simply looking for a reason to confirm their bias. Thankyou for speaking out!
@@filipjosefsson4860 flestir veitingastaðir eru með vegan máltíðir í boði og það er til fullt af vegan "kjöti" og mismunandi jurtamjólk og öðrum vegan vörum í búðum, væntanlega er meirihluti fólks ekki vegan en já
Lol this is false, unfortunately. I work with a wildlife biologist and she’s a die hard vegan. However, she served in the Peace Corps back in the day, and didna stint in Iceland. She’s told me about how difficult it was to find vegan foods in Iceland, because their diets are pretty simple. Luckily that’s probably changing now, but to say that Iceland wouldn’t be a challenging environment is extremely ignorant قمر
I was just there last March and was so surprised by the plant-based restaurants available. The grocery stores had so many plant milks and many vegan options. It was great!
Essentially it's pragmatist Vs idealist; In my experience the pragmatic approach e.g. wearing an old leather belt instead of throwing it away, eating with non-vegan people etc. helps to reduce the 'abnormal/extreme' preconceptions of vegans held by alot of people. Anything that negates the media-induced 'us-them' mentality is a good thing.
I agree with this. It's about the barrier to entry, if it's a binary option then only 5% of people can be Vegan but when you allow a lower bar to entry then 80% of people can be Vegan. That would have a much greater impact on animal welfare worldwide and would therefore be the right choice if you genuinely would do anything to reduce animal harm as much as possible. In addition to that, once people are partially Vegan and become comfortable with that label it becomes a hell of a lot easier to eventually go full Vegan. In the same way it's easier to lift the meat goggles and learn more about the animal impact once you've already stopped being part of the problem.
Yes. Fellow pragmatists here. I don't believe in cultivating an absolutist way of thinking. It's not healthy. I don't expect perfection from myself or others. Just sincerely trying your best is good enough for me. An idealist would say there is no such thing as doing your best. You either do it or don't.
@James Parker My line is flexible; though my answer would be no to both, but the likelihood of such a scenario occuring in the UK makes it not worth thinking about in the first place. In fact, your question follows a similar extreme/abstract nature to common questions such as 'if you were on a desert island?' or 'what about cavemen?'. Why let improbable-scenarios hold you back from positively affecting the attitude, and potentially behaviour, of current non-vegans?
@@fuyopon Personally I don't find it hard to be Vegan but that's because I'm the kind of person who finds self-control easy and also because I'm privileged enough that it can be easy for me. For clarity, I am 100% Vegan and I'm very strict about it with myself. I would disagree that it is like the "virgin" label. The very definition of Veganism is that you do the best you can "as far as is possible and practicable" and NOT that you achieve perfection as that is only possible if you were to cease to exist. I call myself Vegan yet undoubtedly end the lives of many insects, either directly or indirectly, as I go about my day. As is true of EVERY Vegan.
@@fuyopon What I mean is that for the general public, being asked whether they would eat next to people who were eating human babies and dogs, isn't the best way to get them on board. They'll probably take offense at the suggestion that their behaviour is even comparable to those suggested; resulting in 1 more person sided against veganism.
In a world where everyone is crazy, are you really a crazy person if you're called a crazy person by the others ? Or are you the only sane one ? I think Richard makes a lot of sense, people are just not ready to hear it.
Anyone else feel that a lot of the comments felt weirdly homophobic? Commenting on his voice, his demeanor, etc. Like he is stereotypically gay and it seemed to trigger people in the comments.
@@shadycatz85 Yes, I responded to a homophobic comment on Mic's video - not the original Jubilee video - and the homophobe didn't like it one bit. It looks like we'll be responding to each other's comments for a while. I know I shouldn't engage the troll, but homophobic jokes piss me off.
@@shadycatz85 of course. Ad hominem is a norm when there are no arguments. Everything Richard said is perfectly logical. It's the hard truth but it is the truth.
I remember first seeing you when you were suffering from acne. I empathized with you so very much because I suffered so much from acne in my teen and early 20s. It wasn’t until I was almost 24 and went vegan that I saw a drastic improvement. I wanted to reach out to you so badly (perhaps I possibly did on one of your videos) and beg you to change your diet... and then you did. I’m so happy you have shared your knowledge with so many other young women. I was elated to see on the same journey. I know how incredibly debilitating acne can be. You are a shining light for so many others 💛
@@jeffk464 no no, the religion of the left is climate change and by tearing up the earth and growing plants that won't feed a society they are somehow supposed to "fix" climate change? I dunno they got so insane I stopped caring what they have to say
While I actually agree with a lot of the points Richard made, the way he framed his opinions is pretty abrasive to non vegans. It doesn’t make his views wrong or extreme or invalid, but to make progress sometimes you have to adjust the way you speak about your views to meet people halfway. I’ve been vegan for almost 7 years and I’ve definitely chilled out over time (not with staying vegan, I have never once “cheated”) but with how I speak about veganism and handle it around friends and family. My more easy going attitude has been much more successful in encouraging people in my life to move towards veganism than my more abrasive “extreme” earlier ways. Just my two cents, though! Also, ETA, the food desert/traveling thing is a hard one. I try to understand different people’s circumstances and acknowledge my privilege, but I’ve also been vegan for extended periods of time with very little choice/variety due to a lack of vegan options (working on a cruise ship and essentially eating plain rice and beans and lettuce for lunch and dinner for 6 months straight) and I made it work. People joked when I boarded telling me my veganism “wouldn’t last long”. But there was no other option for me as an ethical vegan, so I just did it. Was it pleasant? No. Did I get sick and tired of my diet? Yes. Was I just fine? Yes.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Fair enough but I reckon some people speak out of ignorance, denial or in an attempt to provoke someone; rather than on the spot personally analysing their core beliefs.
I'm sorry but Richard is all about "keeping his own conscience clean" - NOT about creating the best outcome for as many animals as possible. If he was less militant he would be able to convert more people, hence more animals suffer with this kind of approach compared to someone with the approach of Elizabeth. (I am a vegan and absolutely despise animal cruelty, but will still eat dinner with my family. I bring my own food but enough for everyone to taste. This has led the family to lower their meat consumption when I'm visiting. This is one of many possible examples of why not excluding yourself from situations where animals are being consumed can be a more fruitful kind of activism. The opposite just turns people off to veganism in general.)
People can't stomach Richard because there's no comeback to what he says, and people start attacking him personally, not his arguments. He's just an unapologetic vegan, and the fact that he's queer probably goes hand-in-hand with his very strong and brave attitude. He owns it, he's proud of it, and he is not prisoner of other people's opinion of him. He hurts your feelings by throwing facts and truth at you? Grow up. Of course it's easier for some people to go vegan (depending on your social class, background, ethnicity, country, culture...) but the audience of this video is us: 15-35yo people living in developed countries with easy access to education/knowledge.
His arguments would only work on those concerned with the “ethics” of meat consumption. Being plant based myself (for health reasons)...I found Richard to be quit the cringy stereotype of the typical bleeding heart vegan. If anything, I think listening to him will make more people crave meat in the hopes of sending him a mental jab.
"People can't stomach Richard because there's no comeback to what he says, and people start attacking him personally, not his arguments." Its almost like you missed the part in the video in which one of the women literally told him that if you refuse to sit with people that are eating in a certain way you are limiting the opportunities to expose people to starting the vegan lifestyle via a simple food choice to begin with. Richard simply is going out of his way to turn people off, isolate himself into an echo chamber with other vegans to the exclusion of anyone else. And, as I pointed out elsewhere on this thread, the words that he uses are manipulative. Vegan is good but being emotional and irrational about it is not. That turns away more people than it brings in.
As the only vegan in my family and raising 4 boys, my initial attempts to force everyone to choose my new way of eating (since I'm the one cooking) caused months of frustration and contention. It was tearing my family apart. I decided to let them choose for themselves and kindly and consistently educate them instead. Everyone, even my husband who was extremely against it at first, is eating far fewer animal products. It's not perfect, but I'm trying to allow for agency, love and respect while still adhering to my beliefs. I will be vegan for life. Hopefully my family will come along: not out of resentment from being forced, but out of love and understanding and a reverence for life. I didn't learn this way of life until late in my 30's... hopefully through my example my children will save far more animals♡
Veganism can look so different from parent's point of view. Although it seems like they tried to have a diversity in the people that were invited I was actually disappointed that there were no people with parental responsibilities in the video. My kids and my husband went vegan with me but there are other issues that come along with vegan parebts that can interfere with always buying vegan products or being able to afford or even having the time to research certain things. I can run for a quick errand cause I ran out of shampoo and the store doesnt have the cruelty free shampoo I usually get so I end up buying whatever is there.
Hi! I loved reading your post. I feel the same way. I'm the only vegan in my house (two sons, a hubs and a sweet dog), though my children cannot consume dairy. Anyway, I prepare their chicken and pork roasts, but my children didn't eat beef until one was 10 and the other was 5. They rarely eat beef because they don't like how it makes their body feel. As a result, they are seeing for themselves how eating animals affects them. We do not eat much processed food (Yes, they go trick-or treating and eat candy & go to bday parties like other kids...they just eat much less junk than their friends) and, because we eat at home for 90% of our meals, I'm able to supply them with a table full of fruits , nuts & veggies that they like (they're pretty picky about veg, though they are obsessed with raw radishes and raw cauli. My little guy even eats the cauli core. When he does this, I call him my little vegan caveman and we laugh
By being on the more lenient side, I was able to be an example to someone close to me. My friend is now vegan. I don't claim I did it; ultimately it was her decision. However, by not being extreme about it, my example means more to those around me.
Ro Ku I think we need people doing both. Like being lenient can definitely work, but on the other side for me personally it was people being confrontational and not coddling me that caused go re-evaluate and go vegan
Define Extreme and lenient are you the kind of lenient "vegan" who would buy meat for a friend? Would you say it's Extreme to not want to sit a table with dog meat or pig meat? Extreme and lenient doesn't mean anything because it was considered extreme to free a human slave because it was considered property.
@@joannot6706 and TheBlueClue Sometimes it comes down to your personal empathy and knowing who which would be suited to the person/people you're dealing with. Open hostility and shaming might work for one person and being the living example might work with another. In my case, the people I'm around would simply shut down and shun my ideals if I pushed it too hard. Standing firm in my own ethic is fine, and speaking to the health concerns of certain family members is the toe in the door. I don't know how many people here were raised vegan or how many switched overnight vs by increments, but we should have an honest look at ourselves and how we came to be vegan now.
I just thought of something, people, tell me if I'm crazy: how about instead of thinking of it as buying meat for someone else, casually eating with someone else eating meat in front of you, we thought of it as actually slaughtering the animal for someone else to get them their meat, or watching someone casually slaughtering the animal in front of us and proceed to eat it as we eat the veggie burger? In my head, like in OP's I would guess, the former SEEMS not so bad, while the latter is obviously something we wouldn't do/wouldn't be able to stand, but really, what is the difference?
I think you can be nice and understanding while being firm with your message and not shying away from telling people your opinion. In my experience that's the best way to go most of the time.
Being vegan in Iceland is much easier than she makes it out to me. Also norway, finland and sweden have absolutely amazing vegan products. 😂 I live super remotely and my nearest tiny store has so many vegan products.
I've been north of the arctic circle in Alaska, and I have to say, I'm really not sure I could sustain myself as a vegan up there. It was an eye-opening experience. Thankfully I don't need to deal with this dilemma as I don't live there.
@Dr Grey i am very familiar with the mantra of trying to stop people from making progress - i got the same attacks for many years - yet dozens of corrupt elected and appointed officials have resigned and/or been indicted because of my audits - and not one person that attempted to direct or criticize me could show me one example of themselves making progress by 'their techniques' - which ranged from doing nothing to actually working to protect corruption ... this is me - libionline.net/index.html - ever met anyone that's gotten a city's entire executive staff indicted? beaumontgate.org/ who are you dr. grey? let's see your fabulous progress by playing defense in any arena ? what i have come to realize is that evil doesn't prosper because evil outnumbers the good - evil prospers because of traitors within .... and although i plan to get my phd in the study of subservient people that aide and abet evil when it's to their detriment - i care for my health with diet and exercise and never ever ever use the medical industry ... p.s. everyone over 40 lost all rights to criticize the younger generations many many decades ago - the world could not be in a worse condition and the ONLY person to blame in inside of your mirror ...
@@libiure this logic may work for corruption but i dont think it works for carnism. Thing is, veganism must be done with an intrinsic will. This can only work with positive triggers, not negative ones. Negative ones are blaming and shaming and only result in reactant behaviour, like: "now i enjoy my burger even more, insulting asshole" and this is not the reaction you want to create. Thats my strong believe. Also it is the opinion of Melanie Joy, who sees it from the psychological perspective. Thanks for reading ✌️
I lived on powdered potatoes for months while deployed in a war zone, there were no vegan options in the military ration packs, I served for 14yrs & although I have been told there are v.ration packs, I never saw them & concluded they are like the Mr. Snuffleupagus, they exist but nobody has ever seen them... Oh & the drama of being a SGT who didn’t eat animal products...
There have been vegan military folk from time to time in the comments at vegan YT over many years; they said it was difficult to eat vegan in the military, but not impossible, and that having to wear leather boots was the worst aspect.
As a new vegan, a lot of these are hard. Especially the allowing another person to eat meat around you or buying it for them. I see it as wrong but...I'm the only vegan in my circle.
Whatever you decide to do, stay vegan yourself, that is the most important. If you're uncomfortable with buying meat for someone else, maybe use analogy to make them understand why you won't do it. If they are against pollution for example, ask them if they would pollute in your name if you asked them to do so. You can think of more extreme examples if you want.
Regarding the question of sitting around people eating meat. It is better for animals to be around people eating meat because they will be more likely to change if they see that there are alternative and I can guarantee that you will probably have a discussion about the vegan diet and you'll be able to drop facts about meat that they probably don't know that the meat industry don't want them to know. If you find it disgusting to see other people eat animals and you don't want to stay around, it's really fine, I get it but not doing it supposedly because it would somehow hurt animals to do so is not true.
@@joannot6706 It's really a complicated topic isn't it ? On one side you can normalize to them the fact of being vegan, have a discussion on veganism, drop some facts,... But on the other side you're also normalizing the fact of eating animal products. ... ... Which is already normalized so after all is it really a good point ?
Kerbi delsol For sure. I feel like I can never go back. I’ve seen too much evidence of the horror of meat, egg, dairy industries and I can’t be a party to that.
@@MilitantSoyBoy Hey man, I really like the way you handled and expressed yourself (especially the "Homophobic Free Tuesdays" example hahaha). Are you planning to start making videos again? I would certainly watch them!
Jubilee's viewers think they're so woke and tolerant for watching videos with a great diversity of people, meanwhile falling into the same trap of speciesism similar to racists or sexists. Their toxicity really shows here
@Rick Vis Good point. Maybe consider it like this: animals don't want to die. They feel pain like us and this is because they want to avoid death. Pain is inherently bad, and we can respect this fact by not inflicting pain onto animals. On the other hand, plants don't suffer because they can't even run away from predators so it doesn't make sense for them to even have evolved pain in the first place. So in this way, it isn't really possible to discriminate against plants. (Fruits are even "intended" to be eaten). If somehow it was proved that broccoli can indeed feel pain, vegans would stop "discriminating" against broccoli and leave it be. Even if it was somehow proved that every single plant feels pain, well then still being vegan is the better outcome because the 70 billion land animals we kill each year eat more plants than 7 billion humans. Either way, it's a service to plants to eat them directly instead of feeding it through an animal's body. It reduces the number of plants grown and "killed" so it's a win-win
@Rick Vis "but plants also don't want to be eaten". How do you know they don't want that? How can plants want anything without a brain to do the wanting? Is it because they "react to stress and produce chemicals to prevent being eaten"? Well, plenty of inanimate things react too, like my phone. If you're to claim that reacting is what makes things "want", then my phone "wants" to be alive also. Dead frog limbs can still react too, and those certainly aren't alive. "if you believe all species should be treated equally than that means a bacteria should be treated equally to a cow since they are both species". Nobody is advocating for equal treatment of all species. Where did you get that from? All we want is to grant equally consideration to the plight of each species. If someone has as much apathy for a cow as they do for bacteria, that's odd. You're 100% right though that there exists some vague hierarchy and non-human lives do only matter some fraction compared to ours, but it's still a fraction nonetheless. If someone is only worth 20% of my life, I won't kill them. Nor at 5%, nor 1%. Hope that clears that up.
@Rick Vis It has these mechanisms but that doesn't mean there's someone behind the steering wheel necessarily, it could just be running on auto-pilot. But if ya still would prefer to value the life of plants in that high regard, that's totally fine. The best way to reduce the murder of plants is to choose the products that involve the least amount of plants in total. Ethics is vague, but that shouldn't be a scapegoat. At the very least, we can all agree that the murder of innocents is wrong across the board or else we wouldn't have laws for that sorta thing. Be the improvement you'd like to see :)
Please never, ever substitute anyone's food without their knowledge and consent! I understand that you were playing a well-intentioned prank on a friend and probably would know if they had an allergy, but seriously that could really hurt or even kill someone. Refuse to buy it, prepare it, or dine with them all you like, but never, ever substitute/change someone's food without their knowledge. As someone with severe/lethal reactions to some common ingredients, it is terrifying. Even if a person ends up okay after an attack, epipens and subsequent medical treatments are really expensive! Swapping out food is something I've seen a lot of people joke about or actually follow through with, and it doesn't seem like people consider the risks (especially if they don't suffer from allergies or think that allergies are only ever hives or upset stomachs). I enjoy your videos and sincerely hope that I didn't offend you Mic.
I like Richard. It was brave of him to stand firm in his beliefs even when all the others disagreed. I think people who are offended and/or angered by him need to take a look at themselves and ask why they have such a strong reaction to someone politely stating his opinions..It's not like he was going round spitting on everyone and yelling in their faces😂
@@MilitantSoyBoy hey I realized I was already subscribed to you. nice. I subbed after your raw alignment vid. Thanks for the reminder. I'm off to watch your vids now. :)
@@Goat.Cheese Bullshit. If someone has an ego so fragile that they can't hand the truth, they will never be vegan. To be vegan you need the humility and strength to recognise the error of your ways.
@@Goat.Cheese It's a lie spread by people who lose when veganism grows. Don't believe bullshit. Non compromising vegan activism turns the most people. Check Alex Bez's (Amazing Vegan Outreach) video on the pledge.
I’m a vegan from the middle east, I wish I was there to answer some of their questions. I have a lot of different perspective from some of the people here.
I’m a straight white male father from the UK. My views would have been different too. This is why I think it’s important for us to join the fray and share our experiences on UA-cam. I often think that Mic has got it all wrapped up, but this video has given me food for thought.
She is right, I was in rural Iceland and there are parts of Iceland where you cannot find enough vegan food to properly nourish yourself. And it’s easy to say “just bring extra cans of legumes and what not but when I went to Iceland we wouldn’t have Been able to because Hear me out. When I went to Iceland it was summer. The temperature dropped to-1 degrees at night which means we had to Bring snow boots, jackets, sweaters and pretty much everything you would wear to go skiing. That takes up space, a lot of it and you can’t just pack a bunch of extra food. The cars aren’t all big in Iceland and we had a decently sized SUV and my siblings in the back were crushed by 2 personal suitcases and 2 large suitcases that were in the trunk. On top of that everything In Iceland is crazy expensive (as in 25$ for fish and chips expensive in Reykjavik so imagine how much stuff like renting a larger car costs). It is clear that she isn’t isn’t talking about “I can have meat once a week or even on e a year” but she is still following the Vegan montra or causing as little harm as possible practical. In some places in Iceland you can’t even eat grass.... THERE IS NONE!!! So I think she is right in some cases it is very very hard and impractical to be vegan even though the movement is spreading the option is not available everywhere.
I watched this a week ago. And I completely agree with how you feel about Elizabeth , she’s actually in another viral vegan comparison video can’t remember what it’s called but i really think she’s more of a flexitarian and Dosent seem to fully get the ethical stances . I actually LOVE Richards tactful responses , I commented that on the original video defending him and he replied ! He makes his own activism videos !!
As much as people claim to hate "staunch" and "confrontational" vegans, they will hate on us, bully us and make fun of us just as much if we compromise our beliefs. Since going vegan, many people have tried to "catch me" doing non-vegan stuff (But isn't that a leather jacket?! No, actually it's a pleather jacket I bought 3 years before going vegan. Sorry to disappoint your low expectations!) I think we actually will get more (grudging) respect, if we stay true to our ethics, like Richard in the Jubilee video.
I am not yet vegan, I am making the transition. I have to say, I actually like Richard. I gotta respect his convictions. Really, really like that. 😁I’m really impressed by him, actually. It almost seems like he’s maturing as the video progresses.
Richard just seems like a young liberal from some coastal city, where he’s surrounded by likeminded people, and can dedicate a lot of his energy to one or two causes. I’m also guessing he’s been vegan for less than two years. I was over 30 and already a working wife and mother. I did cook and buy animal products for my friends and family, because I felt like my veganism was personal to me. Now, years later, I’ve become more firm with my boundaries and no longer buy, store, or prepare animal products. I also left my meat-eating husband (for other reasons), so I have a completely vegan home now. Some friends have complained, but it is what it is.
I went Vegan because I wanted to be the best I can be. All I cared about originally was the dietary aspect, how it could improve my life and make me healthier. I learned that eating meat wasn't necessary, which then lead to changing my ethical outlook afterwords. Honestly, I don't think it matters which route you take if it still leads to the best destination possible. You still win from a health and ethical standpoint as a byproduct.
Totally. The animals don't care if you're vegan for ethics, they just don't want to end up as food, which also end up as leather. Then again isn't there such a thing as slaughtering cows just for leather and then they become meat? Correct me if I'm wrong as I only found that out a little bit recently. Whatever reason you're vegan for is ok, a lot people end up doing it for ethics (for the animals) anyway.
@@IsmelinaCafuir Exactly. Animals don't care lol. To the best of my knowledge, the majority of leather goods are merely a byproduct of meat production. May as well make every dollar you can I suppose. I still have leather products from before, but I don't purchase them anymore.
@@nickstair6355 same here I don't buy anymore. Whatever i owned i either gave it away or kept it, depending on need. Like shoes, I don't have other nice shoes and I'm not financially "blessed" to buy stuff so I'm forced to keep it, but leather bags I let go.
I live in an Island in the Caribbean. No Whole Foods,Thrive Market, Vegan Cuts and whatever else have you. There is limited availability of certified vegan packaged foods (snacks, cheeses, ice cream, yoghurt etc.) and those that are available are mostly sold at high-end gourmet stores for at least 3 to 4 times the cost of what they are valued at your US retailers. Despite this, I've been an ethical vegan for over 6 years. The agricultural/planting customs and culinary culture of eating a lot of fresh veggies, root crops and legumes regardless of diet (omnivore/veg) makes, imo, being vegan pretty easy and reasonably affordable for middle to even lower income people. However, in terms of ensuring that all aspects of living (clothing, personal hygiene/cosmetics, household items and appliances, vehicles etc.) are all vegan, this is much, much more impractical due to poor availability, lack of full information or transparency from manufacturers and suppliers, lack of understanding about veganism by the majority of the public and in business and of course, the higher costs for more ethical options, which realistically, most people here just cannot afford. "As far as is possible and practicable" is a matter of cultural relativism and other forms of relativism. Everyone everywhere should do their best. As the world keeps changing and veganism gains more traction across the globe, we all get better and better.
Ive been vegan for 3 years. Been with my omnivore boyfriend for 2. Its taken time, but hes at least pescatarian and eats vegan 75% of the time. I refused to ever cook or buy animal products for him. Since I make his dinner every night and often his breakfast and lunch, he eats almost all vegan. Since i cooked him yummy meals, he realized he didnt need animal products. I slowly educated him about all the science behind plant based diets.
I don't agree with the "I'm better" philosophy. If you have that view you are closed minded and not open to expanding your views. Even saying you are the best person that you could be is self defeating and self limiting. Being humble is where it's at.
I think it’s not about being humble, it’s about being honest. It’s not about passing judgement on people, it’s about judging behaviours. It is honestly and truthfully better to follow ethical standards than not to. Denying that is opening the door to chaos and mayhem. I personally want to live in a world where ethics matter.
I have the same problem with my husband. I’ve tried explaining that it’s an ethical choice but he really doesn’t understand it. At least he stopped asking though.
If she really loves you, she'd want you to be who you are and not who she wants you to be. Specially if you're striving to be a better version of yourself, a version of compassion and selflessness.
I hope your spouse can come to understand what a moral hazard this is putting you in; a good spouse would not want their partner to experience this, and I assume it is a fault of understanding on her part that she can overcome. Not to become vegan if it's not in the cards, but to accept that you are and that this means not participating in certain things anymore. Good luck!
I feel so bad for Richard. He just takes the morals and ethics that the world should have in the context of the society we are in. I find myself tiptoeing around omnivores trying to convince them to try this vegan meal or not annoy them with my vegan ideas but I respect Richard because he isn't doing that. I think people are uncomfortable with what he said because it is so out of line with our carnist society, but really if you listen to him he's got amazing ideas. I liked what most people said in this video, but feel bad that Richard was bullied in the comments 😥
I love how in Mic's comments, we are hugely supportive and many vegans even admire how bad a$$ Richard is. Because I've been a nice / chill / nonjudgmental vegan for years now, and who has gone vegan because of it? Not one person.
@@aprilcaddell6335 yes! The movement needs people speaking the truth unapologetically. If we tiptoe around the fact that animals are being tortured and murdered for a sandwich it isn't doing anyone any favours, especially not the animals. And the seeds Richard plants will stick in people's minds even if they resist in the first place. I'm so shy I struggle IRL to speak my mind, but I don't hold back on Facebook/social media 😆 💚💚💚💚
Not everyone in my house hold is vegan, we don’t cook with any animal products in the house, the leather that we own was purchased prior to the conversion to a plant based lifestyle. However I agree with Elizabeth on being respectful of others as well and not imposing our beliefs on them. With that being said, the non-vegan person in our household often request the meatless items and embraces vegan meals. I feel that by showing respect towards my non-vegan family member I am giving them the time and space they need to come to their own decisions about becoming Vegan.
Literally just making a video on this this weekend. I am defining veganism and plant based for people so that they can tell the difference. It really is a big problem that I see when people don't understand that they are not the same thing.
I think that Richard is spot-on, and I have a lot of respect for him holding his ground, and I don’t think that anyone should be pegged as annoying for sticking to their beliefs, I mean, what if his beliefs were religious, would we criticize him then? That said, I can relate much more with Elizabeth and I understand her views. I live in a small remote community where no one is vegan, and nobody in my family is vegan, not even my partner. He was raised a Seventh Day Adventist vegetarian but is not practicing and he eats mostly vegetarian at home but sometimes eats fish and will eat meat at restaurants. I’ve been able to get him off eggs and butter at home just for health reasons, and we’re working on cheese next. Just an aside, when I was in the military years ago, the only things available living in a tent in the deserts of Saudi Arabia were MREs and C-ration type food and I had to wait out my enlistment before I could become a vegetarian. At this stage and situation in my life, I figure that if I personally am vegan, then that’s enough.
I think being right is not the matter with Richard. It's about being accessible. SPECIALLY about not being able to eat vegan in 3rd world countries that easy. Like myself. I'm happily "privileged" because me and my mom can buy vegan food and alternatives here in Brazil, but it's not that easy for someone who don't have that much money. It doesn't matter if you're a militant vegan if you can't be flexible dealing with people. Not saying flexible with your veganism, I'm talking about RELATIONSHIPS and COMMUNICATION with people. SPECIALLY ON THE INTERNET. Not everybody lives in America and you not considering that is a little cocky.
I think that instead of saying "go vegan" and "become vegan" vegans could also say "return vegan" since technically we were all born vegan. Also that way people we connect more because it sounds more inclusive. #returnvegan
I think about these kind of "angles" myself. Shame I didn't do a psychology degree. Tell me more. Surely it's guiding people how to become more constructive members of society than picking a fight with immoral demons.
I made the mistake of subjecting myself to the comments section when I tried watching the video (I just never finished it cuz I went to watch something else).
The only comment from Richard (and you) that irked me was about the food deserts. A vegan themselves can probably pack their own food. For three months? I'm not sure. But to criticize how a group of people lives the only way they know how? It seems ignorant to me. Perhaps it's the confrontational way Richard says things. I'd like to see him live three months in a remote village in the world, actually interact with people, and sustain a healthy vegan diet. And I feel like he was calling people in these situations immoral. I'm sure if they had the knowledge and resources he had, many would become vegan as well
That bit about the liberation pledge should be alarming to all of us. Its reminds me of the Scientologists idea of a "suppressive person". Once a person is a Scientologist they may only talk to other Scientologists and anyone else is against their church and labeled a SP, that person is then shunned by family and friends completely. Replace the word Scientologist with vegan in this instance and the liberation pledge becomes a pledge to a fucking cult. Its very disturbing.
what? That makes no sense? What’s a religion got to do with an ethical stance? Are you saying you’re part of a religious cult because you don’t support child brothels and wouldn’t enter one with your friends, if they were going in? Are you also part of the religious cult who doesn’t support eating dog meat and won’t sit with people in a dog meat restaurant? I think it’s safe to say it would be a lot more disturbing if you weren’t part of those ‘religious cults’
I am vegan. I was an omnivore for the longest time and you know what? It was people like Elizabeth that gave me a push towards the better direction. Dudes like Richard made me believe that vegans were a militant, judgemental, uptight bunch that try to guilt trip you into changing your diet. At the end of the day, Elizabeth does more good than harm to the cause than Richard. If I seem flaky to my community but my attitude causes more people to become vegan, then that has a direct result in less animal byproduct and meat consumption overall. Let Richard do his thing but that does not mean that he is likeable in case he decides he wants to persuade others to become vegan🙄
Saying I am vegan for health and not ethics is like saying "I am against slavery because if I will not own slaves I will get off my ass and do my own work which will keep me active and prevent me from being lazy."
I’ve been vegan for several years now and I can confidently say that when I first started out I was militant and honestly at some times rude to the people in my life who weren’t vegan trying to convince them what they were doing was wrong. Once I chilled out some and checked my privilege, lots of people in my circle started going vegan/vegetarian. Leading by example works. Being kind to animals AND being kind to others will make people way more likely to follow your lead. While Richard has the rhetoric most vegans can agree with he makes the lifestyle seem so unapproachable and at the end of the day if you’re turning people away from veganism, how much good are you really doing?
The reason Richard is so annoying is because what he says is pretty much right on, and you know its right on, and you feel crappy because you know you're not doing what is right, but you don't like feeling crappy about yourself so instead you dislike him for pointing out your shortcomings.
I feel like Richards responses were the most relatable and admirable. How good it is that he has good people in his life that respect his veganism enough to make the accommodations for his company.
Vegan is defined as an ethical term so IMO your only vegan if you are doing it at least partially for ethical reasons. Really this is just nitpicking though, if you don’t eat animals you aren’t part of the problem and that’s what counts. #plantpower 🍎🥦🍠😄🙏🏼
I love when people from first world countries talk about the struggles of third world countries. Talking about the capacity of someone to keep a vegan diet in extreme poor conditions. For example in my country the basic diet for the poor population (which is the majority ) is corn, beans and rice, yes all vegan...but imagine living only on that. They have their own animals, if fortunate enough or will choose animal products over other things if they have the opportunity. Even government programs gives them soy to cook and they throw them away.
Yes!!!!! I took it, not even knowing it! We eat 1,095 meals each year. If a 'friend' won't even eat 1 of those without animal products ....then they're not a friend. Period.
Dude, the Navy has the best food and variety in the entire military. Good food prevents mutiny. It should be no problem to meet any dietary needs even while being on a ship for months.
Hey Mic- kudos! nice positive take on the diversity of views here. We get so much hostility from nonvegans (no matter where we are on the spectrum of questions asked here), that we could do with a lot less hostility from other vegans on our minor differences.
If all vegans where like Richard, less people whould go vegan. I much rather support a plantbased diet of like 95% plants, this makes the diet so much more practical, and I'd argue - easier to succeed with in terms of health. I think a plantbased diet has a better chance to be adopted by more people and therefore decrease animal explotation more on a global level.
His problem is not his logic . But his attitude . He looks rude and arrogant to the average viewer . The kind of " SJW Savior of the Universe " most people despise . I saw the video around 1 week ago . Could not finish it . Because I could not tolerate him .
hilomona if you watched the original video . Read the comments. Most people found Richard annoying and loved Elizabeth. . There were comments about how Richard is seen as the “ classic Vegan “ most “ regular “ People despise. The reason why most “ normal “ people won’t ever accept moving to a Vegan lifestyle. A lot of people doesn’t like to be preach for things they consider “ normal “ or acceptable for most of society.
@@MariaRodriguez-hb4ix That's because they identify with the person who is least adamant about a lifestyle they are ambivalent about. This is basic psychology. Richard's explanation of veganism is the most accurate; if a bunch of not-really-woke omnis do not accept it, that is not Richard or veganism's problem. Most people, almost everyone at this channel for example, validates Richard's perspective, and we were all "normal" omni carnists once.
Your friend didn’t want to be “judged” at her birthday, but I’m sure she’d be happy to go to the other friends birthday and turn her nose up at vegan birthday cake. Carnists can be so hypocritical.
Sorry Mic, I'm with Elizabeth on most of her answers. I didn't like the answers of Richard not because of his tone or confrontational demeanor, but because I actually disagreed with him. He spoke a lot through the eyes of his privilege and was culturally ignorant. This is the first video I've ever disagreed with you on Mic! I'm so sad! Other than that I really liked hearing your opinion and response. Thank you for your video! Keep'em coming!!!
Some misconceptions. *Vegan definition:* A person who does not eat or use animal products. (Application not ethics) *Veganism definition:* A lifestyle choice rather than just a diet. (Ethics not application) *ism definition:* A distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement. Don't mix vegan and veganism to mean the same thing. Because they are not. 17:39 "Vegan is an anti-discrimination, anti-oppression movement. - I would not consider you vegan if you are racist etc." No veganism, not vegan. Vegan is what you eat, veganism is a philosophy. Keep your mental gymnastics out of my diet please.
Your second definition is incorrect: Veganism is a lifestyle choice that includes but is not limited to diet[as a means of refraining from animal exploitation]. That's the standard understanding, per the originator of the term. If you refrain from animal foods but not from other products of animal exploitation, and have no intention to refrain from these, you are not a vegan and do not practice veganism. I am not writing this for you, so much as for others reading who may be confused by what you wrote.
@@MilitantSoyBoy Richard you were AMAZING. It is sad that you were alone on a line as often as you were considering everyone there claimed to be vegan 😪 IMO you were not confrontational or rude or argumentative 🤷♀️ you just stated your truth and answered the questions. You are not responsible for molly-coddling other's desires to keep eating animals and I'm sure, by now, you realise you are not the actual cause of the negative comments you received on this or any other occasion. People's own biases caused those comments and that will remain the case whether you speak out or not, so, keep speaking out so eloquently and passionately 💖 (I'm old enough to be your mother, hence the "motherly" advice that you probably don't need because you quite clearly "got it" long ago 🙃)
The Animal Liberation Pledge has helped me to explain to people why I won't be eating around anyone eating animals. We need to de-normalize the behavior. When we make it a point to not participate in that violent system, people start to question why they ARE willing to do it. We have had a vegan Thanksgiving feast for the past three years, and all family members are totally fine with it (most are vegan, but some are not). Regardless of standing on principle, being around people who are eating corpses makes me nauseous now, so the Liberation pledge is easy for me.
The problem I have with Richard’s stance is “what do we feed pets we already have if we refuse to handle animal products at all?” In an ideal world, I would feed my cats lab meat or something plant-based, but I don’t have that luxury at this point in time. I already had the cats when I went vegan, and they’re also family pets in a non-vegan family - what am I supposed to do, throw them out?
@@Melissa.Garrett am sure u love and care for your pets but they already have family so you promoting animal trade/breed/exploitation and they dont really have the choice so it's like Stockholm syndrome but i get it we dont have to be hardcore vegan we all in a different place on the vegan spectrum
Melissa .Garrett I think I’d choose products that had the smallest carbon footprint and had not been tested on animals for the time the pet was alive. Then, once the carnivorous pet dies, I’d either switch to herbivore animals or stop owning an animal. When I was vegetarian, for some reason I was happy to keep cats but, now I’m vegan, I’m highly unlikely to go out of my way to take in a cat simply because of the food and predation issues.
wellthi They already have family? One of the cats we have currently is a stray that started coming in a few months back looking for food, and was clearly not doing well because he had an injured tail and a limp. He was scared of his own shadow (he’s a bit better now, but still chooses not to stay long), and starving. Whatever “family” he had elsewhere weren’t being of much help to him, and I he *chose* to come to us, not the other way around. One other cat we have now technically belongs to a neighbour, but started coming in about the same time the stray did. He’s well fed and healthy, but for some reason likes coming here (of his own free will) rather than staying at his original home. We can only surmise that he comes for the company and shelter, because his OG family don’t have a cat flap and leave him shut out in all weathers. The last two are actually cats we went out and got ourselves, but not from a breeder - like you say, who wants to promote that idea of animals as a commodity? A family’s female cat got pregnant accidentally and had kittens, so we took two. One of them had a congenital liver condition that would have killed him had he been born in the wild, but because he came to us (and we found £7,000 we didn’t have), he had surgery and is now a healthy, happy cat. We are actually making ourselves broke and ill looking after sick and abandoned animals that need help (and in two cases actually came to us to ask for it), so I don’t much appreciate being told I’m supporting the trade/breed/exploitation system, or that they only love me because they have Stockholm’s syndrome. By that token, we could argue that children only love their parents because of that, too.
Thank you for making this video! Everyone on the comments were saying Richards privilege was showing bc of the food desert thing! So glad you made this with your awesome responses
Its interesting how most of the world limits their animals eaten out of shear necessity and the practicality of eating plants, but when people from wealthier areas talk about it, its somehow a privilege?
It's great to see these issues aired and shared! My gratitude and respect to all involved. One of the necessary consequences of veganism as an ethic is that very tricky balancing act - impossible to get right all the time - in which we have to decide whom to harm, hurt or offend in some situations. For me, veganism is the ethics of love, where love means sincerely wanting Other to thrive, to live with dignity and freedom. "Other" of course includes all life forms, all living systems and beings. But these things take time. We cannot become vegan through and through at the flick of a decision, and each of us, for an unfathomable complexity of interlocking reasons, develops at different rates with uneven emphases on particular aspects of what it is to live as a vegan.
Regarding the humans are animals issue. Doesn't that go for the health aspect as well? You can say that people who are vegan for health are helping themselves and other human animals to thrive while at the same time helping non human animals wether intended or not. So you could say that eating just plants for whatever reason is vegan. And you could even say that people who eat a healthy vegan diet are more vegan than people who eat unhealthy.
Mike I am currently in the midst of this:I have been a vegan for over 3 years. My daughter is not vegan. I adore my daughter and my grandchildren and it's painful for me to see her feed her children cows milk and meat BUT I have tried to educate her and she did recently watch Game changers....but I find the only way I can approach veganism is to model veganism lovingly. It also helps that my 7th grade grandchild is learning about the benefits of eating fruits and veggies in school.
My exceptions are locusts, crickets, and grasshoppers. If I’m ever in a time of scarcity, I have my protein. Also, I am helping the crops if it’s locusts, because locusts eat crops-MY crops! It’s me or them 😂 I’m sure they’re good with some barbecue sauce! And I realize that is offputting to the majority of meat eaters, much less vegans 🤣🤣🤣 But it actually makes more sense than a lot of “gluttonous eaters of meat.” (Proverbs 23:20) Also, I had a tarantula once. I have no qualms with the idea of eating crickets and I have in the past at Universal Studios (and I think Busch Gardens)-but covered in powdered ranch/cheese (the real cow stuff lol). But it’s totally cool, I honestly love freaking people out. So if you’re feeling freaked out, I feel fulfilled 🙂 I also used to eat seafood that would creep people out (like clams/Japanese squid salad/crayfish), just to see ‘em get weirded out 😅 Don’t let me know what food creeps you out 😂😂😂 Dairy and eggs are off-limits now, but they weren’t always. Veganism for me wasn’t by choice. I was left with no other options because I already tried everything-everything except veganism. I was pleasantly surprised when my food options actually increased and I didn’t get sick from it, because for a while all I was eating was meat and some vegetables. Probably in November and December last year I kept leaning more heavily on plant-based food, and in January I finally just did it and went vegan and it wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought 😂😅 and I had no idea about Veganuary, although that was really helpful and to my advantage. Also, I noticed something interesting and idk if other vegans know this because I didn’t until this year. In the Protestant church, there are a lot of people that go on Daniel fasts for the month of January. I’m not sure what denominations, I think it doesn’t matter, I think it’s just something Christians do. Some churches do it, and some don’t. Daniel fasts are done to get closer with God, get healthier and lose weight. Anyway, I thought it was interesting, because that’s a lot of plant-based nutrition in the month of January! Also, I don’t really believe in coincidences. I happened to go vegan the month that most people go vegan, and many Christians refrain from meat, dairy, and eggs (honestly I think to shed the holiday pounds). The Daniel fast doesn’t allow anything like pastries or confections or anything like that. It’s a fast. Veganism is way more fun lol. I once water fasted during the month of Ramadan totally accidentally. I didn’t know what they were complaining about. I did a straight up water fast, but it was funny and comforting listening to others complaining about being hungry etc 😂 I’m down 9.6 lbs btw and I’m feeling much better 🙂 I think the best way to go about having people try the vegan diet is for their health. I definitely would not have done it for the animals alone. I did it for myself, _and then_ I saw everything that was going wrong with the meat industry and the animals in the meat industry. And after I haven’t had animal products in such a long time, I realized how sustainable a vegan diet is in developed countries and I was more open to hearing the atrocities. It’s when I realized that I didn’t need animal products to keep me going, and the animals were pretty much being tortured and their products didn’t even make me feel good after I ate them and caused diseases... Health is definitely the right angle, because there are so many unhealthy people, or people who are fighting so hard to stay fit and healthy on the SAD... I used to be mad at God because I could not eat dairy or egg, but now I feel like praising God, thanking Him and blessing Him for taking animal byproducts from me. The barnyard animals of today, are not the barnyard animals of the Bible. Even in the Old Testament cows, God had requirements that a new cow mother should be with her calf for 1 week at the minimum before anything could happen to either. Chickens probably really were those happy free range foul you see on egg advertisements at one time, but we’re not living in those times anymore. Even in the New Testament it predicts people not eating meat someday. Timothy doesn’t go into details of why, (probably because he didn’t know the details), it just says that in the latter days that people would refrain and abstain from eating the things that God blessed. “forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.” 1 Timothy 4:3 NKJV I knew a pastor and his wife who ate whatever they wanted, he had a heart attack I think at 68 years old and died, and her kidneys failed her, I think she was 68 (found a vague picture-less obituary that fits her description-survived by her mother, even tsk). They always ate out, and they always ate their animals fried and crispy. You can bless your food all you want, you can pray over your food all you want, but it’s not going to make unhealthy food suddenly healthy. Like exercise isn’t going to fix a bad diet, prayer is not going to fix a bad diet... I think the adage is true: you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. And because I sort of had to go vegan for my personal health, I don’t think being vegan makes you a better person than the next person. It would be more accurate to say that you’re more compassionate, but nobody likes feeling judged so don’t judge 🤷♀️ It’s die early horribly or go vegan and live a long content life on plants 🌱 for a lot of people-the message needs to be of compassion. Informative but with sincere concern for somebody’s health. The more people get well, the more it’ll spread because people knew them when they were chronically ill etc. It’s not exactly easy to change old habits, but with information presented well (and possibly without swearing so even grandma can watch) people will start trying more vegan recipes. Knowledge is power. Present the knowledge well. It’s got to be good enough for grandma, too! If the people’s diets can change on a large scale, then worldwide on a large scale more people will be demanding plant-based food because of what we are doing in the USA. We’re why Asians in Asia eat more meat (and have weight problems). My two closest Japanese friends both struggle with their weight... I’m not even trying anymore and I’m losing-I’m just trying to get well and take care of my body and maybe for the first time in forever...I’ll feel great! It’s just got to catch on 🙂
My wife is not Vegan. I used to eat meat. I believe that radicals on either side does more harm then good. IMHO you are not going to change the world by forcing them. My wife eats a lot more veg and has started having some vegan meals. When she is ready she will change.
@Ahimsa42 its not about taking sides its about how you try to change others. I have had far more success with family and friends by pointing out benefits of WFPB then say how wrong tbey are. Violence begets violence.not my way of doing things.
@@MilitantSoyBoy You're welcome, i have not. The feelings i have for animals and food match with taking the liberation pledge. The ideas sourrounding doing so have been hanging in my head up until yesterday when i heard you speak about it for the first time. I should take the liberation pledge.
If you genuinely cared about the animals then you'd be fine with whatever was needed to ensure the least amount of animal harm. Otherwise, it's about ego and feeling that you're better than most other people. When you create a barrier to people entering then you create a barrier to people reducing their animal product consumption. You, personally, are accidentally causing more animal harm than if you weren't even Vegan. You should take a step back and consider what your actual priorities are. Consider a population of 100 people. If 5% are 100% Vegan then there is a 95 person demand for animal products. If 80% of them are 80% Vegan then there is only an equivalent of a 36 person demand for animal products. Not everyone has the self control that we have to be able to be 100% Vegan all the time.
@@robertszynal4745 a diet like "keto diet" or "no sugar, wheat, fruits or oils" requires willpower or self control. Being vegan requires nothing but integrity
To me, Vegan is a diet. You can easily go to a restaurant and say that you're Vegan and they understand. If i say I'm plant-based that is just confusing. The term Vegan when originally coined was simply to differentiate it from Vegetarian. To me if you want to be a super strick activist you should use the term PETA.
Veganism is and always has been an ethical position and not a diet. The term was coined by the group within the Vegetarian Society in England that thought vegetarianism did not go far enough on the ethical arguments for non-violence against animals (dairy, etc.). The vegans were initally ostracized from the society for this stance and faced further problems once re-integrated hence the birth of the Vegan Society. To understand the point about diet imagine that lab grown meat removed the need for Bovine Fetal Serum in the initial cell growth process? Then Vegans could eat a 100% lab meat diet and still be Vegan, though deeply unhealthy.
Haha wow, I had to pause and comment even before Mike's rebuttal: did she literally bring up Iceland, one of the most developed countries in the world?
I fully agreed with the girl who mentioned food desserts. Mic, you were wrong on that point. That one picture aside, food desserts are very real and a lot of the time the only food available in those areas are of the, "fast" variety. I also love the fact that she's trying to make it more accessible to omnivores. We want people on our side, and the best way we can get people on board is with kindness and understanding.
I went vegan 5 days ago!💚
Edit: Woah, didn't expect to even get one like lol thanks!
Also, thanks to all of you congratulating and complementing me! Your comments have made me cry. My mental "health" is a literal hell right now. You have no idea how much you are helping someone with writing these comments. I love you all so much! 💚
Edit 2: Still vegan and I love it! It’s sooooo easy!
Welcome in the happy family!
congrats
@@pomodorino1766 thanks! Happy to be here!
Awesome!!!
Keep it going!
Hi! Elizabeth from the video :) I decided to hop on over like the rest of my peeps. I understand a lot of vegans are confused and maybe upset by my answers so I'm hoping to clarify some of the things that were said.
My approach is not to be “passive” or make people feel “comfortable.” It is to make them receptive, which definitely won’t happen if they feel judged. I can appreciate Richard’s points of view, but we have different approaches and that’s ok!
I also was not implying Iceland is a food desert but was speaking from a personal experience working with an NGO. I was not in control of where I’d be assigned to go or what food would be available. The NGO provided the food and transportation and I was probably about 95% vegan during this time-I still considered myself vegan because my ethical intentions never changed.
For some of the time I worked in greenhouses which were great because they make fresh fruits and vegetables available in an environment that would be otherwise impossible to grow produce in. So to address mic’s point- I do believe doing that work was worthwhile because it promoted projects that would make fresh produce more largely available in the country in the long term.
In our compassion toward animals and our planet, let’s not forget that a large chunk of humanity struggles to feed themselves and their families. They will resort to what is practicable and possible for them- instead of condemning that, we need to help shift the food supply chain and mindset toward a vegan norm.
& Thanks for the video!
Thanks Elizabeth!! This comment was very insightful and I fully understand your position even though my approach is more like Richard's. There's more than one right way to activism. You do you
@@pipersolanas3322 I appreciate that
The Jubilee audience is really toxic
Every video without fail they find one person and attack their appearance, personality, etc.
As a non vegan who watched that video, Richard really turned me off to the idea of veganism because of the way he presented the info. So he kind of deserves to get criticized by others, especially vegans who want to spread their message.
@@Goat.Cheese He didn't soften your ego when he told you that slaughtering animals unnecessarily is very bad.
You poor thing, you are the real victim here aren't you?
He said things as they are in an honest way. Do you want him to kiss your ass or something?
Emily
okay, so get this: i like dog fighting. i also really like kicking dogs.
but one day, i met this dude who told me that he doesn't kick dogs or participate in dog fighting, because he believes it's immoral.
but he was just honestly kind of annoying and presented the information in a way that bothered me, so it really turned me off from the idea of not kicking dogs. 🤷🏼♂️
so therefore i think he deserves criticism, and i'm gonna keep kicking dogs and making them fight, simply because that one guy rubbed me the wrong way.
edit: just for clarification this is a hypothetical extension of the logic that you are using. just clarifying because i don't want someone to see this and think i actually abuse animals.
I hope all these comments don't turn you away from veganism all the way.. Every small step is important and great... Noone is perfect and striving for perfection is just stupid especially because it turns so many people away from even trying to eat less meat 😭😔
@@Goat.Cheese Don't be mad at vegans for pointing out injustice, be mad at yourself for causing it.
Richard doesn’t bother me. I don’t feel he’s being ‘confrontational’ at all. He’s non compromising ...something I would like to strive for.
He doesn't bother me at all. I agree with him, especially about having a clear message. I'm sick of hearing "I'm 80% vegan."
@@alexiswinter7056 Yep. There's no such thing as 80% vegan
Please dont strive to be like that. People like that guy push people away from veganism because of the hash, judgemental attitude. You dont have to compromise, just be nicer than that guy.
@@Goat.Cheese How was he not nice? And what do you know about what works and what doesn't? Are you a social psychologist? Some of the most effective activists are honest and candid in their approach. Vegan Gains has been credited with turning many people vegan and Joey Carbstrong is truthful and uncompromising. Wishy washy vegans don't make for good activists because they make people feel comfortable with exploitation. I've been vegan for 23 years. I've seen all the approaches and I know what works. Back in the 90s it was Meat is Murder, then animal organisations promoted so called humane meat and now we are back at honest, no compromising activism because the watered down, "in bed with the exploiters" method did the animals a disservice. People don't need to be made to feel good about their exploitative ways. They need their cognitive dissonance disrupted, not nurtured.
Same.
Hey Mic, Richard here, I just wanted to say thank you so much for making this response video! I'm so glad we agree on so much, I have been watching you ever since I first went vegan. You actually said a lot of what I said, which ended up cut out of the video. I think you're amazing as well! I practically just screamed in excitement while watching this the whole time. Maybe I'll eventually learn to calm down, the urgency of the matter just gets me fired up haha. Again, thanks for making this, I look forward to all your future videos! 💜
Hey Richard, the points you made in the video were valid. Don't get upset by mean comments in the original video comments section. Some people are just not ready to hear the truth.
@@jimdelsol1941 Thanks!! And I'm not upset, they just don't understand speciesism.
we stan 💕💕💕
Thank you for being a passionate earthling. You are amazing and the animals are thanking you for it! Keep fighting for equality!❤️
You killed it out there dude! The people talking trash in the comments were simply looking for a reason to confirm their bias. Thankyou for speaking out!
Iceland is not a food desert and veganism is actually quite popular here
No its not wtf
@@filipjosefsson4860 flestir veitingastaðir eru með vegan máltíðir í boði og það er til fullt af vegan "kjöti" og mismunandi jurtamjólk og öðrum vegan vörum í búðum, væntanlega er meirihluti fólks ekki vegan en já
Lol this is false, unfortunately. I work with a wildlife biologist and she’s a die hard vegan. However, she served in the Peace Corps back in the day, and didna stint in Iceland. She’s told me about how difficult it was to find vegan foods in Iceland, because their diets are pretty simple. Luckily that’s probably changing now, but to say that Iceland wouldn’t be a challenging environment is extremely ignorant قمر
I was just there last March and was so surprised by the plant-based restaurants available. The grocery stores had so many plant milks and many vegan options. It was great!
@@rebeccagypsysol i literally live here and am vegan
Essentially it's pragmatist Vs idealist; In my experience the pragmatic approach e.g. wearing an old leather belt instead of throwing it away, eating with non-vegan people etc. helps to reduce the 'abnormal/extreme' preconceptions of vegans held by alot of people. Anything that negates the media-induced 'us-them' mentality is a good thing.
I agree with this. It's about the barrier to entry, if it's a binary option then only 5% of people can be Vegan but when you allow a lower bar to entry then 80% of people can be Vegan. That would have a much greater impact on animal welfare worldwide and would therefore be the right choice if you genuinely would do anything to reduce animal harm as much as possible.
In addition to that, once people are partially Vegan and become comfortable with that label it becomes a hell of a lot easier to eventually go full Vegan. In the same way it's easier to lift the meat goggles and learn more about the animal impact once you've already stopped being part of the problem.
Yes. Fellow pragmatists here. I don't believe in cultivating an absolutist way of thinking. It's not healthy. I don't expect perfection from myself or others. Just sincerely trying your best is good enough for me. An idealist would say there is no such thing as doing your best. You either do it or don't.
@James Parker My line is flexible; though my answer would be no to both, but the likelihood of such a scenario occuring in the UK makes it not worth thinking about in the first place.
In fact, your question follows a similar extreme/abstract nature to common questions such as 'if you were on a desert island?' or 'what about cavemen?'.
Why let improbable-scenarios hold you back from positively affecting the attitude, and potentially behaviour, of current non-vegans?
@@fuyopon Personally I don't find it hard to be Vegan but that's because I'm the kind of person who finds self-control easy and also because I'm privileged enough that it can be easy for me.
For clarity, I am 100% Vegan and I'm very strict about it with myself.
I would disagree that it is like the "virgin" label. The very definition of Veganism is that you do the best you can "as far as is possible and practicable" and NOT that you achieve perfection as that is only possible if you were to cease to exist.
I call myself Vegan yet undoubtedly end the lives of many insects, either directly or indirectly, as I go about my day. As is true of EVERY Vegan.
@@fuyopon What I mean is that for the general public, being asked whether they would eat next to people who were eating human babies and dogs, isn't the best way to get them on board. They'll probably take offense at the suggestion that their behaviour is even comparable to those suggested; resulting in 1 more person sided against veganism.
Thank god I’m not crazy . It was weird to see how many vegans disliked Richard . I very much agree with Richard.
In a world where everyone is crazy, are you really a crazy person if you're called a crazy person by the others ? Or are you the only sane one ?
I think Richard makes a lot of sense, people are just not ready to hear it.
That's exactly what I thought when I watched Mic's response, so glad he agreed with me.
Anyone else feel that a lot of the comments felt weirdly homophobic? Commenting on his voice, his demeanor, etc. Like he is stereotypically gay and it seemed to trigger people in the comments.
@@shadycatz85 Yes, I responded to a homophobic comment on Mic's video - not the original Jubilee video - and the homophobe didn't like it one bit. It looks like we'll be responding to each other's comments for a while. I know I shouldn't engage the troll, but homophobic jokes piss me off.
@@shadycatz85 of course. Ad hominem is a norm when there are no arguments. Everything Richard said is perfectly logical. It's the hard truth but it is the truth.
*Ahh yes, here for my weekly dose of vegan sass and irrefutable science.*
Miss your videos!!
I remember first seeing you when you were suffering from acne. I empathized with you so very much because I suffered so much from acne in my teen and early 20s. It wasn’t until I was almost 24 and went vegan that I saw a drastic improvement. I wanted to reach out to you so badly (perhaps I possibly did on one of your videos) and beg you to change your diet... and then you did. I’m so happy you have shared your knowledge with so many other young women. I was elated to see on the same journey. I know how incredibly debilitating acne can be. You are a shining light for so many others 💛
Yes, its a cult. You must think like us all. Its the religion of atheists.
@@jeffk464 no no, the religion of the left is climate change and by tearing up the earth and growing plants that won't feed a society they are somehow supposed to "fix" climate change? I dunno they got so insane I stopped caring what they have to say
Mirella Francino
Well that’s a way to see it. But science can be irrefutable? e.g. the three postulates of the cell theory.
While I actually agree with a lot of the points Richard made, the way he framed his opinions is pretty abrasive to non vegans. It doesn’t make his views wrong or extreme or invalid, but to make progress sometimes you have to adjust the way you speak about your views to meet people halfway. I’ve been vegan for almost 7 years and I’ve definitely chilled out over time (not with staying vegan, I have never once “cheated”) but with how I speak about veganism and handle it around friends and family. My more easy going attitude has been much more successful in encouraging people in my life to move towards veganism than my more abrasive “extreme” earlier ways. Just my two cents, though!
Also, ETA, the food desert/traveling thing is a hard one. I try to understand different people’s circumstances and acknowledge my privilege, but I’ve also been vegan for extended periods of time with very little choice/variety due to a lack of vegan options (working on a cruise ship and essentially eating plain rice and beans and lettuce for lunch and dinner for 6 months straight) and I made it work. People joked when I boarded telling me my veganism “wouldn’t last long”. But there was no other option for me as an ethical vegan, so I just did it. Was it pleasant? No. Did I get sick and tired of my diet? Yes. Was I just fine? Yes.
I can never stand the comment sections on videos like this. People are so ignorant and quick to hate vegans.
A lot of them would probably own human slaves if it was legal.
@@lloydchristmas4547 hahaha, ^ now that is called being quick to judge!
"People are so ignorant" My thoughts exactly. Being on the internet is kind of like being engulfed in an ocean of morons.
@@adamlee3333 not really. I've done outreach with so many people and they will say slavery is okay if that's your culture.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Fair enough but I reckon some people speak out of ignorance, denial or in an attempt to provoke someone; rather than on the spot personally analysing their core beliefs.
I was literally the only one defending Richard. He was totally respectful, people are just butthurt because they can‘t handle someone speaking truth.
Thanks for defending me haha
@@MilitantSoyBoy always man, thank you so much for putting yourself out there! :)
tsurello same here people were being dumb for no reason
I'm sorry but Richard is all about "keeping his own conscience clean" - NOT about creating the best outcome for as many animals as possible. If he was less militant he would be able to convert more people, hence more animals suffer with this kind of approach compared to someone with the approach of Elizabeth.
(I am a vegan and absolutely despise animal cruelty, but will still eat dinner with my family. I bring my own food but enough for everyone to taste. This has led the family to lower their meat consumption when I'm visiting. This is one of many possible examples of why not excluding yourself from situations where animals are being consumed can be a more fruitful kind of activism. The opposite just turns people off to veganism in general.)
Yeah he's awesome, he's so nice about being militant. That's tough to pull off.
People can't stomach Richard because there's no comeback to what he says, and people start attacking him personally, not his arguments. He's just an unapologetic vegan, and the fact that he's queer probably goes hand-in-hand with his very strong and brave attitude. He owns it, he's proud of it, and he is not prisoner of other people's opinion of him. He hurts your feelings by throwing facts and truth at you? Grow up. Of course it's easier for some people to go vegan (depending on your social class, background, ethnicity, country, culture...) but the audience of this video is us: 15-35yo people living in developed countries with easy access to education/knowledge.
Arjun Wijayaratnam thissss
ua-cam.com/video/OMd6EUXAYNg/v-deo.html
His arguments would only work on those concerned with the “ethics” of meat consumption. Being plant based myself (for health reasons)...I found Richard to be quit the cringy stereotype of the typical bleeding heart vegan. If anything, I think listening to him will make more people crave meat in the hopes of sending him a mental jab.
Arjun Wijayaratnam 🔥🔥🔥❤️❤️❤️
"People can't stomach Richard because there's no comeback to what he says, and people start attacking him personally, not his arguments."
Its almost like you missed the part in the video in which one of the women literally told him that if you refuse to sit with people that are eating in a certain way you are limiting the opportunities to expose people to starting the vegan lifestyle via a simple food choice to begin with.
Richard simply is going out of his way to turn people off, isolate himself into an echo chamber with other vegans to the exclusion of anyone else. And, as I pointed out elsewhere on this thread, the words that he uses are manipulative.
Vegan is good but being emotional and irrational about it is not. That turns away more people than it brings in.
As the only vegan in my family and raising 4 boys, my initial attempts to force everyone to choose my new way of eating (since I'm the one cooking) caused months of frustration and contention. It was tearing my family apart. I decided to let them choose for themselves and kindly and consistently educate them instead. Everyone, even my husband who was extremely against it at first, is eating far fewer animal products. It's not perfect, but I'm trying to allow for agency, love and respect while still adhering to my beliefs. I will be vegan for life. Hopefully my family will come along: not out of resentment from being forced, but out of love and understanding and a reverence for life. I didn't learn this way of life until late in my 30's... hopefully through my example my children will save far more animals♡
I know people in your shoes and I know it's not easy. Hang in there, the animals appreciate your passion and dedication. 🌱💚
Veganism can look so different from parent's point of view. Although it seems like they tried to have a diversity in the people that were invited I was actually disappointed that there were no people with parental responsibilities in the video. My kids and my husband went vegan with me but there are other issues that come along with vegan parebts that can interfere with always buying vegan products or being able to afford or even having the time to research certain things. I can run for a quick errand cause I ran out of shampoo and the store doesnt have the cruelty free shampoo I usually get so I end up buying whatever is there.
Hi! I loved reading your post. I feel the same way. I'm the only vegan in my house (two sons, a hubs and a sweet dog), though my children cannot consume dairy. Anyway, I prepare their chicken and pork roasts, but my children didn't eat beef until one was 10 and the other was 5. They rarely eat beef because they don't like how it makes their body feel. As a result, they are seeing for themselves how eating animals affects them. We do not eat much processed food (Yes, they go trick-or treating and eat candy & go to bday parties like other kids...they just eat much less junk than their friends) and, because we eat at home for 90% of our meals, I'm able to supply them with a table full of fruits , nuts & veggies that they like (they're pretty picky about veg, though they are obsessed with raw radishes and raw cauli. My little guy even eats the cauli core. When he does this, I call him my little vegan caveman and we laugh
By being on the more lenient side, I was able to be an example to someone close to me. My friend is now vegan. I don't claim I did it; ultimately it was her decision. However, by not being extreme about it, my example means more to those around me.
Ro Ku I think we need people doing both. Like being lenient can definitely work, but on the other side for me personally it was people being confrontational and not coddling me that caused go re-evaluate and go vegan
Define Extreme and lenient are you the kind of lenient "vegan" who would buy meat for a friend?
Would you say it's Extreme to not want to sit a table with dog meat or pig meat?
Extreme and lenient doesn't mean anything because it was considered extreme to free a human slave because it was considered property.
@@joannot6706 and TheBlueClue Sometimes it comes down to your personal empathy and knowing who which would be suited to the person/people you're dealing with. Open hostility and shaming might work for one person and being the living example might work with another. In my case, the people I'm around would simply shut down and shun my ideals if I pushed it too hard. Standing firm in my own ethic is fine, and speaking to the health concerns of certain family members is the toe in the door. I don't know how many people here were raised vegan or how many switched overnight vs by increments, but we should have an honest look at ourselves and how we came to be vegan now.
I just thought of something, people, tell me if I'm crazy: how about instead of thinking of it as buying meat for someone else, casually eating with someone else eating meat in front of you, we thought of it as actually slaughtering the animal for someone else to get them their meat, or watching someone casually slaughtering the animal in front of us and proceed to eat it as we eat the veggie burger? In my head, like in OP's I would guess, the former SEEMS not so bad, while the latter is obviously something we wouldn't do/wouldn't be able to stand, but really, what is the difference?
I think you can be nice and understanding while being firm with your message and not shying away from telling people your opinion. In my experience that's the best way to go most of the time.
Being vegan in Iceland is much easier than she makes it out to me. Also norway, finland and sweden have absolutely amazing vegan products. 😂 I live super remotely and my nearest tiny store has so many vegan products.
I've been north of the arctic circle in Alaska, and I have to say, I'm really not sure I could sustain myself as a vegan up there. It was an eye-opening experience. Thankfully I don't need to deal with this dilemma as I don't live there.
@@ma3xiu1 Are you claiming to know better than someone who lives there?
Representing Northern countries like ice laden Game of Thrones' North is a dead giveaway she has no clue about Iceland or Norway.
@@AK-np4rp Someone who lives where? I'm talking about Alaska, I've never been to Iceland so I can't comment on the situation there.
@@ma3xiu1 Ok, I retract my comment then
i like richard - he's wearing a shirt that let's everyone know that he plays offense, not defense - and that's how you make progress ...
@Dr Grey based on what evidence? Were you alive during the Civil rights movement? Nah, bye.
@Dr Grey It's actually the only thing that has worked but....... go off, I guess.
@Dr Grey i am very familiar with the mantra of trying to stop people from making progress - i got the same attacks for many years - yet dozens of corrupt elected and appointed officials have resigned and/or been indicted because of my audits - and not one person that attempted to direct or criticize me could show me one example of themselves making progress by 'their techniques' - which ranged from doing nothing to actually working to protect corruption ...
this is me - libionline.net/index.html - ever met anyone that's gotten a city's entire executive staff indicted? beaumontgate.org/
who are you dr. grey?
let's see your fabulous progress by playing defense in any arena ?
what i have come to realize is that evil doesn't prosper because evil outnumbers the good - evil prospers because of traitors within .... and although i plan to get my phd in the study of subservient people that aide and abet evil when it's to their detriment - i care for my health with diet and exercise and never ever ever use the medical industry ...
p.s. everyone over 40 lost all rights to criticize the younger generations many many decades ago - the world could not be in a worse condition and the ONLY person to blame in inside of your mirror ...
I love this analogy, I did wear the shirt for a reason.
@@libiure this logic may work for corruption but i dont think it works for carnism.
Thing is, veganism must be done with an intrinsic will. This can only work with positive triggers, not negative ones. Negative ones are blaming and shaming and only result in reactant behaviour, like: "now i enjoy my burger even more, insulting asshole" and this is not the reaction you want to create.
Thats my strong believe. Also it is the opinion of Melanie Joy, who sees it from the psychological perspective. Thanks for reading ✌️
Richard is right and he should say it
Thanks, I will.
@@MilitantSoyBoy Keep it up!
I lived on powdered potatoes for months while deployed in a war zone, there were no vegan options in the military ration packs, I served for 14yrs & although I have been told there are v.ration packs, I never saw them & concluded they are like the Mr. Snuffleupagus, they exist but nobody has ever seen them... Oh & the drama of being a SGT who didn’t eat animal products...
Did you feel pretty good on the potatoes, or did you feel like something was missing? Thanks for doing that, by the way!
And that's what real veganism is. Good on you, dude.
@micthevegan maybe your next video could discuss this topic diplomatically and fairly (as always) - Vegans in the military
What a great service to your long term health. Congratulations.
There have been vegan military folk from time to time in the comments at vegan YT over many years; they said it was difficult to eat vegan in the military, but not impossible, and that having to wear leather boots was the worst aspect.
As a new vegan, a lot of these are hard. Especially the allowing another person to eat meat around you or buying it for them. I see it as wrong but...I'm the only vegan in my circle.
Anna LA same for me. I’m not new to it, but my partner eats a standard American diet, so we eat drastically different things. We make it work.
Whatever you decide to do, stay vegan yourself, that is the most important.
If you're uncomfortable with buying meat for someone else, maybe use analogy to make them understand why you won't do it. If they are against pollution for example, ask them if they would pollute in your name if you asked them to do so.
You can think of more extreme examples if you want.
Regarding the question of sitting around people eating meat. It is better for animals to be around people eating meat because they will be more likely to change if they see that there are alternative and I can guarantee that you will probably have a discussion about the vegan diet and you'll be able to drop facts about meat that they probably don't know that the meat industry don't want them to know.
If you find it disgusting to see other people eat animals and you don't want to stay around, it's really fine, I get it but not doing it supposedly because it would somehow hurt animals to do so is not true.
@@joannot6706 It's really a complicated topic isn't it ? On one side you can normalize to them the fact of being vegan, have a discussion on veganism, drop some facts,...
But on the other side you're also normalizing the fact of eating animal products. ... ... Which is already normalized so after all is it really a good point ?
Kerbi delsol For sure. I feel like I can never go back. I’ve seen too much evidence of the horror of meat, egg, dairy industries and I can’t be a party to that.
To me, as a Brit, Richard comes across as very polite. He's not Earthling Ed, no, but he's really not a knob.
Thanks, I thought I was pretty nice to everyone too haha.
Amanda Earlam Most of us Americans are just too wrapped up in feelings and treading lightly. It’s pretty ridiculous to say the least
Earthling Ed is vegan jesus
I liked Richard. He knows what he knows and stands by it.
Thanks!
@@MilitantSoyBoy Hey man, I really like the way you handled and expressed yourself (especially the "Homophobic Free Tuesdays" example hahaha). Are you planning to start making videos again? I would certainly watch them!
Orion Music Network I'm uploading a response video today.
@@MilitantSoyBoy Awesome! I will watch out for it!
Jubilee's viewers think they're so woke and tolerant for watching videos with a great diversity of people, meanwhile falling into the same trap of speciesism similar to racists or sexists. Their toxicity really shows here
Yes.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet not to mention how they single out people in nearly every video to bully, especially with Erin and now Richard
@Rick Vis Good point. Maybe consider it like this: animals don't want to die. They feel pain like us and this is because they want to avoid death. Pain is inherently bad, and we can respect this fact by not inflicting pain onto animals. On the other hand, plants don't suffer because they can't even run away from predators so it doesn't make sense for them to even have evolved pain in the first place. So in this way, it isn't really possible to discriminate against plants. (Fruits are even "intended" to be eaten).
If somehow it was proved that broccoli can indeed feel pain, vegans would stop "discriminating" against broccoli and leave it be. Even if it was somehow proved that every single plant feels pain, well then still being vegan is the better outcome because the 70 billion land animals we kill each year eat more plants than 7 billion humans. Either way, it's a service to plants to eat them directly instead of feeding it through an animal's body. It reduces the number of plants grown and "killed" so it's a win-win
@Rick Vis "but plants also don't want to be eaten". How do you know they don't want that? How can plants want anything without a brain to do the wanting? Is it because they "react to stress and produce chemicals to prevent being eaten"? Well, plenty of inanimate things react too, like my phone. If you're to claim that reacting is what makes things "want", then my phone "wants" to be alive also. Dead frog limbs can still react too, and those certainly aren't alive.
"if you believe all species should be treated equally than that means a bacteria should be treated equally to a cow since they are both species". Nobody is advocating for equal treatment of all species. Where did you get that from? All we want is to grant equally consideration to the plight of each species. If someone has as much apathy for a cow as they do for bacteria, that's odd. You're 100% right though that there exists some vague hierarchy and non-human lives do only matter some fraction compared to ours, but it's still a fraction nonetheless. If someone is only worth 20% of my life, I won't kill them. Nor at 5%, nor 1%. Hope that clears that up.
@Rick Vis It has these mechanisms but that doesn't mean there's someone behind the steering wheel necessarily, it could just be running on auto-pilot. But if ya still would prefer to value the life of plants in that high regard, that's totally fine. The best way to reduce the murder of plants is to choose the products that involve the least amount of plants in total.
Ethics is vague, but that shouldn't be a scapegoat. At the very least, we can all agree that the murder of innocents is wrong across the board or else we wouldn't have laws for that sorta thing. Be the improvement you'd like to see :)
Please never, ever substitute anyone's food without their knowledge and consent! I understand that you were playing a well-intentioned prank on a friend and probably would know if they had an allergy, but seriously that could really hurt or even kill someone. Refuse to buy it, prepare it, or dine with them all you like, but never, ever substitute/change someone's food without their knowledge.
As someone with severe/lethal reactions to some common ingredients, it is terrifying. Even if a person ends up okay after an attack, epipens and subsequent medical treatments are really expensive! Swapping out food is something I've seen a lot of people joke about or actually follow through with, and it doesn't seem like people consider the risks (especially if they don't suffer from allergies or think that allergies are only ever hives or upset stomachs).
I enjoy your videos and sincerely hope that I didn't offend you Mic.
I like Richard. It was brave of him to stand firm in his beliefs even when all the others disagreed. I think people who are offended and/or angered by him need to take a look at themselves and ask why they have such a strong reaction to someone politely stating his opinions..It's not like he was going round spitting on everyone and yelling in their faces😂
Yeah, I definitely don't do that.
Exactly !
Not being able to step out of your own beliefs to consider others is definitely not a polite way to live life.
Hats off to Richard.
Nope. Dont emulate that guy. He turns non-vegans off from going vegan due to his militant mindset
Thanks!! 🙌
@@MilitantSoyBoy hey I realized I was already subscribed to you. nice. I subbed after your raw alignment vid. Thanks for the reminder. I'm off to watch your vids now. :)
@@Goat.Cheese Bullshit. If someone has an ego so fragile that they can't hand the truth, they will never be vegan. To be vegan you need the humility and strength to recognise the error of your ways.
@@Goat.Cheese It's a lie spread by people who lose when veganism grows. Don't believe bullshit. Non compromising vegan activism turns the most people. Check Alex Bez's (Amazing Vegan Outreach) video on the pledge.
I’m a vegan from the middle east, I wish I was there to answer some of their questions. I have a lot of different perspective from some of the people here.
I’m a straight white male father from the UK. My views would have been different too. This is why I think it’s important for us to join the fray and share our experiences on UA-cam. I often think that Mic has got it all wrapped up, but this video has given me food for thought.
The Earthling Ed bit had me cracking up
Alexis Goldner forreal ! He was on point with that 😂
She is right, I was in rural Iceland and there are parts of Iceland where you cannot find enough vegan food to properly nourish yourself. And it’s easy to say “just bring extra cans of legumes and what not but when I went to Iceland we wouldn’t have Been able to because
Hear me out. When I went to Iceland it was summer. The temperature dropped to-1 degrees at night which means we had to Bring snow boots, jackets, sweaters and pretty much everything you would wear to go skiing. That takes up space, a lot of it and you can’t just pack a bunch of extra food. The cars aren’t all big in Iceland and we had a decently sized SUV and my siblings in the back were crushed by 2 personal suitcases and 2 large suitcases that were in the trunk. On top of that everything In Iceland is crazy expensive (as in 25$ for fish and chips expensive in Reykjavik so imagine how much stuff like renting a larger car costs). It is clear that she isn’t isn’t talking about “I can have meat once a week or even on e a year” but she is still following the Vegan montra or causing as little harm as possible practical. In some places in Iceland you can’t even eat grass.... THERE IS NONE!!!
So I think she is right in some cases it is very very hard and impractical to be vegan even though the movement is spreading the option is not available everywhere.
I watched this a week ago. And I completely agree with how you feel about Elizabeth , she’s actually in another viral vegan comparison video can’t remember what it’s called but i really think she’s more of a flexitarian and Dosent seem to fully get the ethical stances . I actually LOVE Richards tactful responses , I commented that on the original video defending him and he replied ! He makes his own activism videos !!
And here I am again, thanks for the support!
MilitantSoyBoy of course ! I’ve watched a few of your videos now and I love them !
We love and support richard in this household. Keep speaking up my fave.
Thanks, I will!
As much as people claim to hate "staunch" and "confrontational" vegans, they will hate on us, bully us and make fun of us just as much if we compromise our beliefs. Since going vegan, many people have tried to "catch me" doing non-vegan stuff (But isn't that a leather jacket?! No, actually it's a pleather jacket I bought 3 years before going vegan. Sorry to disappoint your low expectations!) I think we actually will get more (grudging) respect, if we stay true to our ethics, like Richard in the Jubilee video.
Aww thanks.
@@MilitantSoyBoy Thank you so much, Richard, for standing up for the animals and for Veganism! You inspire me to do the same-all the best to you :))))
I am not yet vegan, I am making the transition. I have to say, I actually like Richard. I gotta respect his convictions. Really, really like that. 😁I’m really impressed by him, actually. It almost seems like he’s maturing as the video progresses.
Richard just seems like a young liberal from some coastal city, where he’s surrounded by likeminded people, and can dedicate a lot of his energy to one or two causes. I’m also guessing he’s been vegan for less than two years. I was over 30 and already a working wife and mother. I did cook and buy animal products for my friends and family, because I felt like my veganism was personal to me. Now, years later, I’ve become more firm with my boundaries and no longer buy, store, or prepare animal products. I also left my meat-eating husband (for other reasons), so I have a completely vegan home now. Some friends have complained, but it is what it is.
I went Vegan because I wanted to be the best I can be. All I cared about originally was the dietary aspect, how it could improve my life and make me healthier. I learned that eating meat wasn't necessary, which then lead to changing my ethical outlook afterwords.
Honestly, I don't think it matters which route you take if it still leads to the best destination possible. You still win from a health and ethical standpoint as a byproduct.
Nikolai Domek Agree 100%
Totally. The animals don't care if you're vegan for ethics, they just don't want to end up as food, which also end up as leather.
Then again isn't there such a thing as slaughtering cows just for leather and then they become meat? Correct me if I'm wrong as I only found that out a little bit recently.
Whatever reason you're vegan for is ok, a lot people end up doing it for ethics (for the animals) anyway.
@@IsmelinaCafuir Exactly. Animals don't care lol.
To the best of my knowledge, the majority of leather goods are merely a byproduct of meat production. May as well make every dollar you can I suppose.
I still have leather products from before, but I don't purchase them anymore.
@@nickstair6355 same here I don't buy anymore. Whatever i owned i either gave it away or kept it, depending on need. Like shoes, I don't have other nice shoes and I'm not financially "blessed" to buy stuff so I'm forced to keep it, but leather bags I let go.
I live in an Island in the Caribbean. No Whole Foods,Thrive Market, Vegan Cuts and whatever else have you. There is limited availability of certified vegan packaged foods (snacks, cheeses, ice cream, yoghurt etc.) and those that are available are mostly sold at high-end gourmet stores for at least 3 to 4 times the cost of what they are valued at your US retailers. Despite this, I've been an ethical vegan for over 6 years. The agricultural/planting customs and culinary culture of eating a lot of fresh veggies, root crops and legumes regardless of diet (omnivore/veg) makes, imo, being vegan pretty easy and reasonably affordable for middle to even lower income people. However, in terms of ensuring that all aspects of living (clothing, personal hygiene/cosmetics, household items and appliances, vehicles etc.) are all vegan, this is much, much more impractical due to poor availability, lack of full information or transparency from manufacturers and suppliers, lack of understanding about veganism by the majority of the public and in business and of course, the higher costs for more ethical options, which realistically, most people here just cannot afford. "As far as is possible and practicable" is a matter of cultural relativism and other forms of relativism. Everyone everywhere should do their best. As the world keeps changing and veganism gains more traction across the globe, we all get better and better.
Ive been vegan for 3 years. Been with my omnivore boyfriend for 2. Its taken time, but hes at least pescatarian and eats vegan 75% of the time. I refused to ever cook or buy animal products for him. Since I make his dinner every night and often his breakfast and lunch, he eats almost all vegan. Since i cooked him yummy meals, he realized he didnt need animal products. I slowly educated him about all the science behind plant based diets.
I like Richard, he is direct and tells it straight like it is! We are the animals voice!
I don't agree with the "I'm better" philosophy. If you have that view you are closed minded and not open to expanding your views. Even saying you are the best person that you could be is self defeating and self limiting. Being humble is where it's at.
I think it’s not about being humble, it’s about being honest. It’s not about passing judgement on people, it’s about judging behaviours.
It is honestly and truthfully better to follow ethical standards than not to. Denying that is opening the door to chaos and mayhem.
I personally want to live in a world where ethics matter.
My wife asked me to buy her a rotisserie chicken the other day. I refused, and it caused a bit of consternation. It's hard, for sure.
Yes, i feal this same pain. My wife always wants me to buy milk and other animal products. Creates tension when i refuse.
I have the same problem with my husband. I’ve tried explaining that it’s an ethical choice but he really doesn’t understand it. At least he stopped asking though.
If she really loves you, she'd want you to be who you are and not who she wants you to be. Specially if you're striving to be a better version of yourself, a version of compassion and selflessness.
@@superlawman2010 Pick up some plant milk instead haha
I hope your spouse can come to understand what a moral hazard this is putting you in; a good spouse would not want their partner to experience this, and I assume it is a fault of understanding on her part that she can overcome. Not to become vegan if it's not in the cards, but to accept that you are and that this means not participating in certain things anymore. Good luck!
I feel so bad for Richard. He just takes the morals and ethics that the world should have in the context of the society we are in. I find myself tiptoeing around omnivores trying to convince them to try this vegan meal or not annoy them with my vegan ideas but I respect Richard because he isn't doing that. I think people are uncomfortable with what he said because it is so out of line with our carnist society, but really if you listen to him he's got amazing ideas.
I liked what most people said in this video, but feel bad that Richard was bullied in the comments 😥
Definitely, only in a society of violence will someone who preaches non-violence be seen as a threat. So glad we agree.
I love how in Mic's comments, we are hugely supportive and many vegans even admire how bad a$$ Richard is. Because I've been a nice / chill / nonjudgmental vegan for years now, and who has gone vegan because of it? Not one person.
@@aprilcaddell6335 yes! The movement needs people speaking the truth unapologetically. If we tiptoe around the fact that animals are being tortured and murdered for a sandwich it isn't doing anyone any favours, especially not the animals. And the seeds Richard plants will stick in people's minds even if they resist in the first place. I'm so shy I struggle IRL to speak my mind, but I don't hold back on Facebook/social media 😆 💚💚💚💚
Not everyone in my house hold is vegan, we don’t cook with any animal products in the house, the leather that we own was purchased prior to the conversion to a plant based lifestyle. However I agree with Elizabeth on being respectful of others as well and not imposing our beliefs on them. With that being said, the non-vegan person in our household often request the meatless items and embraces vegan meals. I feel that by showing respect towards my non-vegan family member I am giving them the time and space they need to come to their own decisions about becoming Vegan.
Literally just making a video on this this weekend. I am defining veganism and plant based for people so that they can tell the difference. It really is a big problem that I see when people don't understand that they are not the same thing.
I think that Richard is spot-on, and I have a lot of respect for him holding his ground, and I don’t think that anyone should be pegged as annoying for sticking to their beliefs, I mean, what if his beliefs were religious, would we criticize him then?
That said, I can relate much more with Elizabeth and I understand her views. I live in a small remote community where no one is vegan, and nobody in my family is vegan, not even my partner. He was raised a Seventh Day Adventist vegetarian but is not practicing and he eats mostly vegetarian at home but sometimes eats fish and will eat meat at restaurants. I’ve been able to get him off eggs and butter at home just for health reasons, and we’re working on cheese next.
Just an aside, when I was in the military years ago, the only things available living in a tent in the deserts of Saudi Arabia were MREs and C-ration type food and I had to wait out my enlistment before I could become a vegetarian. At this stage and situation in my life, I figure that if I personally am vegan, then that’s enough.
This is the least comments I've ever seen on a new video, what a shame, Mic is such a cool guy!
@Canadian Girl It's just because my other subscriptions already have 100 comments after 3 seconds
I think being right is not the matter with Richard.
It's about being accessible.
SPECIALLY about not being able to eat vegan in 3rd world countries that easy. Like myself. I'm happily "privileged" because me and my mom can buy vegan food and alternatives here in Brazil, but it's not that easy for someone who don't have that much money.
It doesn't matter if you're a militant vegan if you can't be flexible dealing with people. Not saying flexible with your veganism, I'm talking about RELATIONSHIPS and COMMUNICATION with people.
SPECIALLY ON THE INTERNET. Not everybody lives in America and you not considering that is a little cocky.
was with you until you said a chicken burrito was the same as buying a slave
I live in the arctic circle (North of Norway) and we have a ton of vegan options as well as locally grown vegetables
I think that instead of saying "go vegan" and "become vegan" vegans could also say "return vegan" since technically we were all born vegan. Also that way people we connect more because it sounds more inclusive.
#returnvegan
I think about these kind of "angles" myself. Shame I didn't do a psychology degree. Tell me more. Surely it's guiding people how to become more constructive members of society than picking a fight with immoral demons.
I made the mistake of subjecting myself to the comments section when I tried watching the video (I just never finished it cuz I went to watch something else).
I will pray for your recovery!
@@tamcon72 thanks
The only comment from Richard (and you) that irked me was about the food deserts. A vegan themselves can probably pack their own food. For three months? I'm not sure. But to criticize how a group of people lives the only way they know how? It seems ignorant to me. Perhaps it's the confrontational way Richard says things. I'd like to see him live three months in a remote village in the world, actually interact with people, and sustain a healthy vegan diet. And I feel like he was calling people in these situations immoral. I'm sure if they had the knowledge and resources he had, many would become vegan as well
That bit about the liberation pledge should be alarming to all of us. Its reminds me of the Scientologists idea of a "suppressive person". Once a person is a Scientologist they may only talk to other Scientologists and anyone else is against their church and labeled a SP, that person is then shunned by family and friends completely. Replace the word Scientologist with vegan in this instance and the liberation pledge becomes a pledge to a fucking cult. Its very disturbing.
what? That makes no sense? What’s a religion got to do with an ethical stance? Are you saying you’re part of a religious cult because you don’t support child brothels and wouldn’t enter one with your friends, if they were going in? Are you also part of the religious cult who doesn’t support eating dog meat and won’t sit with people in a dog meat restaurant? I think it’s safe to say it would be a lot more disturbing if you weren’t part of those ‘religious cults’
I am vegan. I was an omnivore for the longest time and you know what? It was people like Elizabeth that gave me a push towards the better direction. Dudes like Richard made me believe that vegans were a militant, judgemental, uptight bunch that try to guilt trip you into changing your diet. At the end of the day, Elizabeth does more good than harm to the cause than Richard. If I seem flaky to my community but my attitude causes more people to become vegan, then that has a direct result in less animal byproduct and meat consumption overall. Let Richard do his thing but that does not mean that he is likeable in case he decides he wants to persuade others to become vegan🙄
It’s so sad that everyone is shitting on Richard in the comments. I agreed with every single thing he said and he obviously was the most passionate.
Saying I am vegan for health and not ethics is like saying "I am against slavery because if I will not own slaves I will get off my ass and do my own work which will keep me active and prevent me from being lazy."
I’ve been vegan for several years now and I can confidently say that when I first started out I was militant and honestly at some times rude to the people in my life who weren’t vegan trying to convince them what they were doing was wrong. Once I chilled out some and checked my privilege, lots of people in my circle started going vegan/vegetarian. Leading by example works. Being kind to animals AND being kind to others will make people way more likely to follow your lead. While Richard has the rhetoric most vegans can agree with he makes the lifestyle seem so unapproachable and at the end of the day if you’re turning people away from veganism, how much good are you really doing?
The reason Richard is so annoying is because what he says is pretty much right on, and you know its right on, and you feel crappy because you know you're not doing what is right, but you don't like feeling crappy about yourself so instead you dislike him for pointing out your shortcomings.
I'm like a giant mirror and it really pisses people off haha.
I feel like Richards responses were the most relatable and admirable. How good it is that he has good people in his life that respect his veganism enough to make the accommodations for his company.
Thanks, I do feel pretty lucky.
Guy became a vegan because of his environmental views. Well in my book that's also an ethical reason.
Vegan is defined as an ethical term so IMO your only vegan if you are doing it at least partially for ethical reasons. Really this is just nitpicking though, if you don’t eat animals you aren’t part of the problem and that’s what counts. #plantpower 🍎🥦🍠😄🙏🏼
Who says vegan is defined as an ethical term?
@@darrishawks6033 The person who coined the term.
@@darrishawks6033 Was your question meant be a joke? If not, let me introduce you: www.vegansociety.com/go-vegan/definition-veganism
I love when people from first world countries talk about the struggles of third world countries. Talking about the capacity of someone to keep a vegan diet in extreme poor conditions. For example in my country the basic diet for the poor population (which is the majority ) is corn, beans and rice, yes all vegan...but imagine living only on that. They have their own animals, if fortunate enough or will choose animal products over other things if they have the opportunity. Even government programs gives them soy to cook and they throw them away.
Looking forward to your video discussing the liberation pledge.
Yes!!!!! I took it, not even knowing it!
We eat 1,095 meals each year.
If a 'friend' won't even eat 1 of those without animal products ....then they're not a friend. Period.
like that you addressed their points fairly
Tyra you were definitely not annoying!!! I love what you had to say!!!!
Richard seems like an alright guy. Strong-willed more than anything else.
Thanks!
It’s weird that it would be hard to find vegan options in China when they invented seitan and eat tofu, and also don’t eat a lot of dairy.
Create a better world by going and staying level10 vegan!! 👻
Don't worry, I went vegan 4 days ago!
Don't worry, I went vegan 5 days ago!
@@rosemooncrystal3687 Hi five!!
@@rosemooncrystal3687 4 or 5 days ago. Do you remember?
Love your username, hahaha
I like your slight sass. Right on sir. You are an inspiration .
The Earthling Ed impression IM SO DEADDDDD OMGGG 💀😭😭😂
Did you really compared buying a meat burrito to slavery? Wow.
Dude, the Navy has the best food and variety in the entire military. Good food prevents mutiny. It should be no problem to meet any dietary needs even while being on a ship for months.
Hey Mic- kudos! nice positive take on the diversity of views here. We get so much hostility from nonvegans (no matter where we are on the spectrum of questions asked here), that we could do with a lot less hostility from other vegans on our minor differences.
If all vegans where like Richard, less people whould go vegan.
I much rather support a plantbased diet of like 95% plants, this makes the diet so much more practical, and I'd argue - easier to succeed with in terms of health. I think a plantbased diet has a better chance to be adopted by more people and therefore decrease animal explotation more on a global level.
His problem is not his logic . But his attitude . He looks rude and arrogant to the average viewer . The kind of " SJW Savior of the Universe " most people despise . I saw the video around 1 week ago . Could not finish it . Because I could not tolerate him .
hilomona if you watched the original video . Read the comments. Most people found Richard annoying and loved Elizabeth. .
There were comments about how Richard is seen as the “ classic Vegan “ most “ regular “ People despise. The reason why most “ normal “ people won’t ever accept moving to a Vegan lifestyle. A lot of people doesn’t like to be preach for things they consider “ normal “ or acceptable for most of society.
@@MariaRodriguez-hb4ix That's because they identify with the person who is least adamant about a lifestyle they are ambivalent about. This is basic psychology. Richard's explanation of veganism is the most accurate; if a bunch of not-really-woke omnis do not accept it, that is not Richard or veganism's problem. Most people, almost everyone at this channel for example, validates Richard's perspective, and we were all "normal" omni carnists once.
@@MariaRodriguez-hb4ixHow are you calling Richard an SJW when you're so fragile you can't finish a Jubilee video.
Your friend didn’t want to be “judged” at her birthday, but I’m sure she’d be happy to go to the other friends birthday and turn her nose up at vegan birthday cake. Carnists can be so hypocritical.
Sorry Mic, I'm with Elizabeth on most of her answers. I didn't like the answers of Richard not because of his tone or confrontational demeanor, but because I actually disagreed with him. He spoke a lot through the eyes of his privilege and was culturally ignorant. This is the first video I've ever disagreed with you on Mic! I'm so sad! Other than that I really liked hearing your opinion and response. Thank you for your video! Keep'em coming!!!
Some misconceptions.
*Vegan definition:*
A person who does not eat or use animal products. (Application not ethics)
*Veganism definition:*
A lifestyle choice rather than just a diet. (Ethics not application)
*ism definition:*
A distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology or an artistic movement.
Don't mix vegan and veganism to mean the same thing. Because they are not.
17:39 "Vegan is an anti-discrimination, anti-oppression movement. - I would not consider you vegan if you are racist etc." No veganism, not vegan. Vegan is what you eat, veganism is a philosophy.
Keep your mental gymnastics out of my diet please.
Your second definition is incorrect: Veganism is a lifestyle choice that includes but is not limited to diet[as a means of refraining from animal exploitation]. That's the standard understanding, per the originator of the term. If you refrain from animal foods but not from other products of animal exploitation, and have no intention to refrain from these, you are not a vegan and do not practice veganism.
I am not writing this for you, so much as for others reading who may be confused by what you wrote.
I frikkin love Richard! I'd like to hang out with him.
Let's hangout!
@@MilitantSoyBoy Richard you were AMAZING. It is sad that you were alone on a line as often as you were considering everyone there claimed to be vegan 😪 IMO you were not confrontational or rude or argumentative 🤷♀️ you just stated your truth and answered the questions. You are not responsible for molly-coddling other's desires to keep eating animals and I'm sure, by now, you realise you are not the actual cause of the negative comments you received on this or any other occasion. People's own biases caused those comments and that will remain the case whether you speak out or not, so, keep speaking out so eloquently and passionately 💖
(I'm old enough to be your mother, hence the "motherly" advice that you probably don't need because you quite clearly "got it" long ago 🙃)
@@lellyt2372 I love everything about this comment!
@Dr Grey it's okay to argue sometimes. That's how we grow.
Same!
When I watched this, the ad was for leather conditioners lol talk about barking up the wrong tree
Yes, so often I click on a channel like this one and there's an ad for mail order steaks or something like that. Talk about wasting an ad.
Yes, that irony happens too often!
I am always glad when this happens because i know they just wasted money on me.
@@missoats8731 Yeah, when it happens to me I watch the whole ad to make sure they paid for it.
@Jaxon Basra wow vegan level up 😋
Love this! Made me think. Love your channel! 🙂
The Animal Liberation Pledge has helped me to explain to people why I won't be eating around anyone eating animals. We need to de-normalize the behavior. When we make it a point to not participate in that violent system, people start to question why they ARE willing to do it. We have had a vegan Thanksgiving feast for the past three years, and all family members are totally fine with it (most are vegan, but some are not). Regardless of standing on principle, being around people who are eating corpses makes me nauseous now, so the Liberation pledge is easy for me.
I'm so glad to hear about your experience with the pledge, can't wait to see you at future activism events! 🙌💜
What the heck does someone’s eyebrows have to do with ANYthing, really?? So annoying when people do that 🙄
Exactly! Homophobic attacks.
I love Richard.
He reminds me of Gary Yourovsky.
Thank you so much for this video!!! My family has been influenced by me, and others via them. You help us all learn.
The problem I have with Richard’s stance is “what do we feed pets we already have if we refuse to handle animal products at all?” In an ideal world, I would feed my cats lab meat or something plant-based, but I don’t have that luxury at this point in time. I already had the cats when I went vegan, and they’re also family pets in a non-vegan family - what am I supposed to do, throw them out?
do vegans own animals ?
wellthi We don’t “own” them, as that would indicate they were property - but we have animals that are family members and are treated as such.
@@Melissa.Garrett am sure u love and care for your pets but they already have family so you promoting animal trade/breed/exploitation and they dont really have the choice so it's like Stockholm syndrome but i get it we dont have to be hardcore vegan we all in a different place on the vegan spectrum
Melissa .Garrett I think I’d choose products that had the smallest carbon footprint and had not been tested on animals for the time the pet was alive. Then, once the carnivorous pet dies, I’d either switch to herbivore animals or stop owning an animal. When I was vegetarian, for some reason I was happy to keep cats but, now I’m vegan, I’m highly unlikely to go out of my way to take in a cat simply because of the food and predation issues.
wellthi They already have family? One of the cats we have currently is a stray that started coming in a few months back looking for food, and was clearly not doing well because he had an injured tail and a limp. He was scared of his own shadow (he’s a bit better now, but still chooses not to stay long), and starving. Whatever “family” he had elsewhere weren’t being of much help to him, and I he *chose* to come to us, not the other way around.
One other cat we have now technically belongs to a neighbour, but started coming in about the same time the stray did. He’s well fed and healthy, but for some reason likes coming here (of his own free will) rather than staying at his original home. We can only surmise that he comes for the company and shelter, because his OG family don’t have a cat flap and leave him shut out in all weathers.
The last two are actually cats we went out and got ourselves, but not from a breeder - like you say, who wants to promote that idea of animals as a commodity? A family’s female cat got pregnant accidentally and had kittens, so we took two. One of them had a congenital liver condition that would have killed him had he been born in the wild, but because he came to us (and we found £7,000 we didn’t have), he had surgery and is now a healthy, happy cat.
We are actually making ourselves broke and ill looking after sick and abandoned animals that need help (and in two cases actually came to us to ask for it), so I don’t much appreciate being told I’m supporting the trade/breed/exploitation system, or that they only love me because they have Stockholm’s syndrome. By that token, we could argue that children only love their parents because of that, too.
Thank you for making this video! Everyone on the comments were saying Richards privilege was showing bc of the food desert thing! So glad you made this with your awesome responses
Its interesting how most of the world limits their animals eaten out of shear necessity and the practicality of eating plants, but when people from wealthier areas talk about it, its somehow a privilege?
I was really happy to see it too!
I am a vegan living in a village in Iceland and it's almost easier then eating vegan in England!
It's great to see these issues aired and shared! My gratitude and respect to all involved.
One of the necessary consequences of veganism as an ethic is that very tricky balancing act - impossible to get right all the time - in which we have to decide whom to harm, hurt or offend in some situations. For me, veganism is the ethics of love, where love means sincerely wanting Other to thrive, to live with dignity and freedom. "Other" of course includes all life forms, all living systems and beings. But these things take time. We cannot become vegan through and through at the flick of a decision, and each of us, for an unfathomable complexity of interlocking reasons, develops at different rates with uneven emphases on particular aspects of what it is to live as a vegan.
Regarding the humans are animals issue. Doesn't that go for the health aspect as well? You can say that people who are vegan for health are helping themselves and other human animals to thrive while at the same time helping non human animals wether intended or not. So you could say that eating just plants for whatever reason is vegan. And you could even say that people who eat a healthy vegan diet are more vegan than people who eat unhealthy.
Mike I am currently in the midst of this:I have been a vegan for over 3 years. My daughter is not vegan. I adore my daughter and my grandchildren and it's painful for me to see her feed her children cows milk and meat BUT I have tried to educate her and she did recently watch Game changers....but I find the only way I can approach veganism is to model veganism lovingly. It also helps that my 7th grade grandchild is learning about the benefits of eating fruits and veggies in school.
"This has been Mic the Vegan on how to eat vegan in a food desert" That cracked me up. The more obscure the better!
Please don’t tell me you think dogs and cats should be vegan
I like Richard! A lot of people disliked him but he’s blunt and that offends people who don’t like the truth. Oh well 🤷🏻♀️
I like you too!
My exceptions are locusts, crickets, and grasshoppers. If I’m ever in a time of scarcity, I have my protein. Also, I am helping the crops if it’s locusts, because locusts eat crops-MY crops! It’s me or them 😂 I’m sure they’re good with some barbecue sauce!
And I realize that is offputting to the majority of meat eaters, much less vegans 🤣🤣🤣
But it actually makes more sense than a lot of “gluttonous eaters of meat.” (Proverbs 23:20)
Also, I had a tarantula once. I have no qualms with the idea of eating crickets and I have in the past at Universal Studios (and I think Busch Gardens)-but covered in powdered ranch/cheese (the real cow stuff lol). But it’s totally cool, I honestly love freaking people out. So if you’re feeling freaked out, I feel fulfilled 🙂
I also used to eat seafood that would creep people out (like clams/Japanese squid salad/crayfish), just to see ‘em get weirded out 😅
Don’t let me know what food creeps you out 😂😂😂
Dairy and eggs are off-limits now, but they weren’t always. Veganism for me wasn’t by choice. I was left with no other options because I already tried everything-everything except veganism. I was pleasantly surprised when my food options actually increased and I didn’t get sick from it, because for a while all I was eating was meat and some vegetables. Probably in November and December last year I kept leaning more heavily on plant-based food, and in January I finally just did it and went vegan and it wasn’t as big of a deal as I thought 😂😅 and I had no idea about Veganuary, although that was really helpful and to my advantage.
Also, I noticed something interesting and idk if other vegans know this because I didn’t until this year. In the Protestant church, there are a lot of people that go on Daniel fasts for the month of January. I’m not sure what denominations, I think it doesn’t matter, I think it’s just something Christians do. Some churches do it, and some don’t. Daniel fasts are done to get closer with God, get healthier and lose weight. Anyway, I thought it was interesting, because that’s a lot of plant-based nutrition in the month of January! Also, I don’t really believe in coincidences. I happened to go vegan the month that most people go vegan, and many Christians refrain from meat, dairy, and eggs (honestly I think to shed the holiday pounds). The Daniel fast doesn’t allow anything like pastries or confections or anything like that. It’s a fast. Veganism is way more fun lol.
I once water fasted during the month of Ramadan totally accidentally. I didn’t know what they were complaining about. I did a straight up water fast, but it was funny and comforting listening to others complaining about being hungry etc 😂
I’m down 9.6 lbs btw and I’m feeling much better 🙂
I think the best way to go about having people try the vegan diet is for their health. I definitely would not have done it for the animals alone. I did it for myself, _and then_ I saw everything that was going wrong with the meat industry and the animals in the meat industry. And after I haven’t had animal products in such a long time, I realized how sustainable a vegan diet is in developed countries and I was more open to hearing the atrocities.
It’s when I realized that I didn’t need animal products to keep me going, and the animals were pretty much being tortured and their products didn’t even make me feel good after I ate them and caused diseases... Health is definitely the right angle, because there are so many unhealthy people, or people who are fighting so hard to stay fit and healthy on the SAD...
I used to be mad at God because I could not eat dairy or egg, but now I feel like praising God, thanking Him and blessing Him for taking animal byproducts from me. The barnyard animals of today, are not the barnyard animals of the Bible.
Even in the Old Testament cows, God had requirements that a new cow mother should be with her calf for 1 week at the minimum before anything could happen to either. Chickens probably really were those happy free range foul you see on egg advertisements at one time, but we’re not living in those times anymore.
Even in the New Testament it predicts people not eating meat someday. Timothy doesn’t go into details of why, (probably because he didn’t know the details), it just says that in the latter days that people would refrain and abstain from eating the things that God blessed.
“forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.” 1 Timothy 4:3 NKJV
I knew a pastor and his wife who ate whatever they wanted, he had a heart attack I think at 68 years old and died, and her kidneys failed her, I think she was 68 (found a vague picture-less obituary that fits her description-survived by her mother, even tsk). They always ate out, and they always ate their animals fried and crispy. You can bless your food all you want, you can pray over your food all you want, but it’s not going to make unhealthy food suddenly healthy. Like exercise isn’t going to fix a bad diet, prayer is not going to fix a bad diet...
I think the adage is true: you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.
And because I sort of had to go vegan for my personal health, I don’t think being vegan makes you a better person than the next person. It would be more accurate to say that you’re more compassionate, but nobody likes feeling judged so don’t judge 🤷♀️ It’s die early horribly or go vegan and live a long content life on plants 🌱 for a lot of people-the message needs to be of compassion. Informative but with sincere concern for somebody’s health. The more people get well, the more it’ll spread because people knew them when they were chronically ill etc.
It’s not exactly easy to change old habits, but with information presented well (and possibly without swearing so even grandma can watch) people will start trying more vegan recipes. Knowledge is power. Present the knowledge well. It’s got to be good enough for grandma, too!
If the people’s diets can change on a large scale, then worldwide on a large scale more people will be demanding plant-based food because of what we are doing in the USA. We’re why Asians in Asia eat more meat (and have weight problems). My two closest Japanese friends both struggle with their weight... I’m not even trying anymore and I’m losing-I’m just trying to get well and take care of my body and maybe for the first time in forever...I’ll feel great! It’s just got to catch on 🙂
My wife is not Vegan. I used to eat meat. I believe that radicals on either side does more harm then good. IMHO you are not going to change the world by forcing them. My wife eats a lot more veg and has started having some vegan meals. When she is ready she will change.
@Ahimsa42 its not about taking sides its about how you try to change others. I have had far more success with family and friends by pointing out benefits of WFPB then say how wrong tbey are. Violence begets violence.not my way of doing things.
why is so hard for vegans to stop comparing everything to slavery or the holocaust
If Richard has a UA-cam channel I would love to watch it
MilitantSoyBoy
His comment was just 6 or so above yours on my feed :-)
I'm here!
@@MilitantSoyBoy yay :)
@@MilitantSoyBoy subscribed 😊
Richard has done well taking the liberation pledge. Very good.
Thanks, have you taken it as well?
@@MilitantSoyBoy You're welcome, i have not.
The feelings i have for animals and food match with taking the liberation pledge.
The ideas sourrounding doing so have been hanging in my head up until yesterday when i heard you speak about it for the first time.
I should take the liberation pledge.
Real vegans are vegans for the animals. That is it.
if you focus on etymology there is "veg"etables in vegan so perhaps its more about plant than animal protection
If you genuinely cared about the animals then you'd be fine with whatever was needed to ensure the least amount of animal harm. Otherwise, it's about ego and feeling that you're better than most other people.
When you create a barrier to people entering then you create a barrier to people reducing their animal product consumption.
You, personally, are accidentally causing more animal harm than if you weren't even Vegan. You should take a step back and consider what your actual priorities are.
Consider a population of 100 people. If 5% are 100% Vegan then there is a 95 person demand for animal products. If 80% of them are 80% Vegan then there is only an equivalent of a 36 person demand for animal products.
Not everyone has the self control that we have to be able to be 100% Vegan all the time.
@@robertszynal4745 a diet like "keto diet" or "no sugar, wheat, fruits or oils" requires willpower or self control.
Being vegan requires nothing but integrity
To me, Vegan is a diet. You can easily go to a restaurant and say that you're Vegan and they understand. If i say I'm plant-based that is just confusing. The term Vegan when originally coined was simply to differentiate it from Vegetarian. To me if you want to be a super strick activist you should use the term PETA.
Veganism is and always has been an ethical position and not a diet. The term was coined by the group within the Vegetarian Society in England that thought vegetarianism did not go far enough on the ethical arguments for non-violence against animals (dairy, etc.). The vegans were initally ostracized from the society for this stance and faced further problems once re-integrated hence the birth of the Vegan Society.
To understand the point about diet imagine that lab grown meat removed the need for Bovine Fetal Serum in the initial cell growth process? Then Vegans could eat a 100% lab meat diet and still be Vegan, though deeply unhealthy.
The real history. ua-cam.com/video/zTx_d8pau3c/v-deo.html
Haha wow, I had to pause and comment even before Mike's rebuttal: did she literally bring up Iceland, one of the most developed countries in the world?
I fully agreed with the girl who mentioned food desserts. Mic, you were wrong on that point. That one picture aside, food desserts are very real and a lot of the time the only food available in those areas are of the, "fast" variety. I also love the fact that she's trying to make it more accessible to omnivores. We want people on our side, and the best way we can get people on board is with kindness and understanding.