Gotta give serious respect to the Maiar that fly the sun and moon around, because I know that if I was in that position, I wouldn't be able to stop myself from doing donuts in the sky with the moon and freaking everyone on Middle-Earth out.
I think the biggest thing to note regarding the "why don't the ainur intervene" do keep in mind that whenever they have, both pre and post incarnate awakening, it has caused catastrophic damage to Arda. As creative beings I doubt that they enjoy blowing up all the stuff they made, or killing various beings dwelling there either.
Agreed - I think a lot of it has to do with Morgoth contaminating everything, usually with the result that when the situation gets so bad the Valar HAVE to get involved, they can't 'salvage' much and have to destroy everything that's been too corrupted to save. Including whole civilizations, if need be.
@@GirlNextGondor One major lesson I take from Tolkien is that if you let things get so bad that Eru has to get involved substantially and directly, things are not going to go well no matter which side you’re on. Better to do your best to make things better as well as you can and hope to keep Eru’s need to intervene restricted to the absolute minimum, e.g. letting Gollum fall off the precipice. This is the problem with waiting for evil to go so far that it finally runs afoul of the laws of reality: you wind up with things like the destruction of Numenor, in which many more good people die and suffer the way things played out than if Ar-Pharazon and his cult had been more hindered in Numenor/Arda.
@@GirlNextGondor but still my question is : why they favored so much the elves compared to the men? even numenor was given ONLY to some men ater they fought against the strongest maiar, while to the elves everything was given ..let alone how ,expcet Ulmo, never cared abiut men(hell Mndos was ready to kill earendil )
I remember when I first read the Lord of the Rings (after I had seen the movies), and I got to the part where Aragorn is telling the Hobbits about Lay of Luthein, and mentions Morgorth, of whom Sauron was just a servant, my mind was blown and then they don't even mention Morgoth again!
The big moment for me is when Frodo hears the Elves in the Woody End and says he knows they're High Elves because they 'spoke the name of Elbereth,' like that's supposed to mean something very important - and we get a *little* more info (and plenty of references) to Elbereth in the novel, but we never get more than hints and glimpses of what an 'Elbereth' even is, or why she's so significant that her very name makes people tremble in awe or fear. And this from a writer notorious for the level of detail in his backstory! 🤣
It was all those kinds of lines scattered throughout Lords of the Rings that made Middle-Earth feel so real to me, because it had a history and some people knew this history and would make references to it like we would to our own.
They technically didn't have the rights to use anything to do with Luthein or Morgoth in the Lord of the Rings films. Legally they couldn't do more than use the words they did. They had the rights to the material of the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit but nothing else.
@@GirlNextGondor What you're saying is that Tolkien was a master at including JUST enough exposition to tease and intrigue, but not enough to make it a treatise. The books encourage you to keep reading, and then read them again, and you always find something you didn't see previously.
I did not catch the idea that the Valar discourage worship of themselves (with one notable exception, of course). And while Elves and other people do invoke the Valar, it is not worship, it is begging for help. Strangely enough, the Vala that is more willing to help - Ulmo - is not the most called upon, maybe because most of the named Eldar we meet have, hmm, past history with him, and maybe because they know that invoking his name too near a body of water means a Tuor-grade Event and that tends to be unsettling. Manwe sends the eagles, but Ulmo shows up *in person*.
That makes a lot of sense - one thing that struck me that I didn't get into is that Ulmo is described as *terrifying* in aspect, despite being among the most sympathetic to Men and Elves. (Tolkien even delegates the more 'adversarial' ocean traits of storms, rages, unpredictability to Osse, and yet Ulmo is still formidable just through the sheer profundity of his power.) It's neat to think these are two sides of the same trait - his willingness to get up close and personal with his votaries.
This is a great point. Maybe he is never worshipped because he never proclaims being a diety, nor does he ever request or demand that anyone worship him. I think the Elves praise Elbereth Gilthoniel because the stars had always given them hope and a theme for many of their songs. Some may think that is a form of worship, maybe even Eru thinks it is.🤔
2:04 This is very interesting to me. Though they require (as you said) no food, in Morgoth's Ring there is a passage stating that at festivals the would dine with the other folk gathered there (elves and maiar). This is fascinating in respect to the fact the they need not a physical form, yet choose to do so, moreover in the likeness of the Eruhíni. This is (among other things) shows the love of the Valar for the Children of Eru. But I believe it also shows their being bounded to the world, for the more the partake in activities of this world (i.e. physical activities) the more Earth-bound they become. In doing so their power wanes (as evidenced by Melian), causing them to "fade" as it were, saying that (and I'm paraphrasing here) "That even the Valar would, in the end, grow weary of the World, and become envious of Men, who's fate is beyond Arda". This shows (I believe) that the Valar had become bounded and tied to Arda. And, indeed, experienced a waning of power. Anyways, this is just speculation on my part, and is not (that I am aware of) "cannon', but it does arouse some thought provoking questions. Great video, as always! Namarië!
At the beginning of The Silmarillion it is mentioned that the Ainur developed to the extent that they understood each other's melody during the performance of the music and that the harmony in the music increased. An example of this is when Ulmo appears to Turgon and Finrod in their dreams. I interpret this event as Ulmo's understanding of Lórien's and Mandos's melody in music. There are many other similar examples. This is just one of them.
Yes - one of my favorite aspects of the Valar and of the idea of Tolkien's creation story being envisioned as a giant collaborative song! Yavanna and Nienna work together on the Trees; Manwe and Varda use each other's powers to see and hear goings-on in Arda; Manwe's growing sympathy with Yavanna leads to the discovery of the possibility of Ents and seems to be related to Manwe's realization that both Aule and Yavanna in their own spheres are concerned with *height* and therefore overlap more with his sphere than he thought.... I love when the Valar collaborate on things 🥰
@@GirlNextGondor I'm particularly fond of these couple of paragraphs from the Ainulindalë. “And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the ever changing mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.' Then Ulmo answered: 'Truly, Water is become now fairer than my heart imagined, neither had my secret thought conceived the snowflake, nor in all my music was contained the falling of the rain. I will seek Manwe, that he and I may make melodies for ever to my delight!' And Manwe and Ulmo have from the beginning been allied, and in all things have served most faithfully the purpose of Iluvatar.”
Tolkien was such a literary genius , the Hobbit and Lord of the rings was amazing but the silmarillion was such a rich and complex story , I honestly can't think of any other author that put that much detail into the creation of there universe and the beings that helped .
I'm so glad I stumbled across your channel! My late-husband was pratically a Tolkien scholar! Have ALL the books, also used to talk about Tolkien works all the time! Like while he was in school, he made the pyre that Denethor was on, holding a Palantier in his hands! ALL of this got me so interested in reading them myself! I did so before we went to see The Fellowship of the Ring! Because after I did so, I knew now how things are supposed to go! There was this group of college students, dressed up as Tolkien Elves, for extra credit! And we would hear them gripe on occasion too! My late-husband loved the Tolkien works, and the world built within them, so much! I'm a BIG Tolkien's work lover, because of him!
That's so neat! I love that your husband was able to share his interest with you so that you're now able to enjoy Tolkien as well. (And I would have loved to see his recreation of Denethor's pyre.) Glad you're enjoying the channel!
They're basically Tolkien Elves to Tolkien's elves: older siblings with greater knowledge and wisdom who gladly offer aid, but still fallible and won't solve everything for their stubborn younger siblings.
Your videos have had some really professional details since well near the beginning of your channel. The floaty special effects, consistent titling themes, creating categories of videos, etc. Here’s a vote of appreciation for care taken in packaging!
@@Enerdhil my problem is more this: She’ll say something that is a Tolkien tangential thought trigger, and by the time I stop thinking through my thought, I noticed I’ve lost track of a minute or two of video. This is a good problem for a video to create, but it does mean I effectively end up watching the video three times.
😆 So what I'm hearing from both of you is: these videos are distracting and hard to follow; we like it; make them more distracting please. Challenge accepted.
@@jpbjoel 😂😆🤣😆😂 I am equally guilty of that behavior, Mellon. I think there are a lot of subs that want to digest everything Lexi says in her videos and so do what we do. I just hope it has a more positive effect effect on the algorithms and generates more first-time viewers and subs for her.😁
I used to think that the Valar actually participated in the War of Wrath because when I read "the march of the host of the Valar," I assumed all the Valar we're among this host. Now, I just assume they did not fight to take Morgoth down. I think the Elves of the Undying Lands did all the fighting, with some help from Maiar, such as Ëonwë commanding the host. I do, however feel that the Valar "extracted" Morgoth from Angband, resulting in the sinking of Beleriand.
Tulkas wrestled with Melkor! This is the manifestation of Eru wresting the theme of creation back from Melkor. Each consecutive age has characters and narratives echoing this same theme.
I still don't find it plausible that Beleriand would end up sinking beneath the waves unless there were Valar and Maiar taking part in the combat. Indeed, I highly doubt that the elves of Valinor, even with Ëonwë leading them, would have been able to defeat Morgoth's armies.
@@istari0 I completely agree with you. A bunch of High Elves with zero combat experience will defeat an army bred to kill.... Sorry, I don't think so. I guess the Light of the Trees shines in the Elves' faces and terrifies the orcs, Balrogs, and dragons so that the Elves can slay them without a fight.🤔
Not Jeff here. I was surprised as a kid to find that Hobbit and LOTR didn't have a trace of what we call"religion". Sure there was plenty of magic and mystery, but no prayer, gods, worship. Then I started learning about the Silmarillion (haven't read it all the way through, still) and was astounded to read about the Ainur and their roles in the creation of Middle Earth. Now I know that there can't be "religion" as we know it. Religion requires faith in ethereal being(s) and living your life to gain or stay in their favor. The Valar don't require faith. The Elves know that they exist. Heck, they go retire with them. The creation of Arda is history, not a mysterious myth. Having faith to believe in the Valar is akin to needing faith to believe in Harriet Tubman or George III or Emperor Naruhito. They are fact! And they aren't going to answer your prayers, even if you burn an Ent on their alters or tithe a tenth of your mithril. The Valar are going to leave everyone alone, unless you invade their retirement home. That's Sauron's crime in Melkor worship, duping the humans into believing that the Dark Lord could be bought with gifts and flattery. And lots of blood. It's interesting that Tolkien, that most devout man, portrayed the one explicit religion as an abomination.
Well, it is Eru that they believe is The One True God, they may not worship him like religious practices we know, but it is a fact that they recognise the valar and differentiate them from him. That’s why Sauron tricked the Númenorians, they told them that the valar lied and there is no such thing as Eru.
The thing I struggled with most when first reading the Silmarillion wasn't the Ainur; it was all the elven names, particularly those beginning with Fin. Of course, he then went a doubled down on it with Fingolfin and Finarfin. Fins everywhere! That's not to say keeping all the Ainur straight was easy but I wasn't going to get Manwë and Ulmo confused because their names were so similar. After much thought, I have reached the conclusion that I believe Ungoliant is one of the Ainur. She was early on corrupted by Melkor before deciding to go her own way. They got back together briefly and she was sufficiently powerful that once she had consumed all the available light from the Two Trees, she was a serious threat to Morgoth at that time. All of that says Ainur to me, albeit one quite different from the others we have met. Then again, as you pointed out, the Valar and Maiar sometimes assumed far from humanoid forms and not all the Ainur went to Arda. I think Tom Bombadil is simply what he says he is, Tom Bombadil. To me, his description of himself as eldest, fatherless, etc best fits with him being part of the template created by the Music of the Ainur and used by Eru Ilúvatar to create Arda. He was the first living being in Arda and he was unique.
I think it’s interesting that despite Tolkien’s devout Catholicism, Eru Illuvatar lacks many of the personality qualities of Adonai/YHWH. In any case, by giving the Valar domains and personalities, properties of their own it felt like he masterfully harmonized the aesthetics of classic European “mythology” with monotheistic theology.
That's exactly what he did he pulled a lot of inspiration from the Bible obviously but also a lot from European mythology and stuff too Tolkien was a genius
Not at all related to the video, but hearing your description of Ulmo reminded me. Is there any technical link between water and foresight? Ulmo and the dreams, Galadriel's mirror, Círdan, etc. could all just be coincidence. There's clealry some kind of association there, but I can't remember seeing anything of the sort mentioned by Tolkien himself.
I've had that thought before, I wonder if it has something to do with Ulmo having the 'deepest' knowledge of the theme or the whole 'the echo of the music of the Ainur can be heard in the ocean waves"? Like, is water more attuned to destiny than other elements? ...or possibly Tolkien just liked water, found it relaxing, etc?
@@GirlNextGondor the connection with Ulmo and water could be something similar to Morgoth and gold. I've been heavily interested in what Tolkien called the 'Atlantis complex', so Frodo and Merry's dreams are what bring me to this in particular. Frodo had an exceptional amount of foresight!
Good question! - it's not wholly explained, but a phrase that Tolkien uses is brothers/siblings 'in the thought of Eru.' Since all the Ainur were created out of Eru's mind before time, in one sense ALL of them are 'siblings'; they all share the same 'father.' But it seems like that some of them were created with certain similarities or relationships that make them like brothers or sisters. (The examples I gave in the video, for instance, were Namo and Irmo, responsible for Death and Sleep, and Orome and Nessa, who both love speed and chasing - so you can see a sort of 'family' resemblance in their interests and powers.)
Hey - just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed your various videos, and your interpretations of Tolkien's work are spot-on. I especially enjoyed the videos focusing on the pairings between Maiar, Elves and Men. I did want to add, specifically for this video, that my understanding of the Silmarillion (Ainulindale) is that the Ainur really did create Arda - that their song was what summoned all of creation, but it was Iluvatar's power that brought it into being, as opposed to remaining a "musical vision." So, they are creators, in terms of being conduits to Iluvatar's power. I have always felt that the Ainur were much more than just custodians of someone else's world.
Not a newcomer but I love your videos. Your knowledge of the legendarium is both broad and deep, your delivery is clear and concise. And then there's the ART! Wow! Subbed!
Good stuff as ever GNG. I love finding the traces of ancient things in the LotR and to some extent the Hobbit. The Silmarillion is a fine thing in itself though different. It is the background and depth which the professor so meticulously created, therefore he struggled to create depth in the depth if you get me. The Ainur, are given that depth well however,by their association with the music of creation and by their relationships and various powers. Thanks for drawing out these things so well and keep up the good work.
Oh my God, I never knew that I needed a PokéRap styled rap about the Valar until now, but I don't think I'll be able to sleep until this exists. Can you make this like a Patreon or subscriber goal or something?
Excellent summary! It's funny how little information LOTR and TH touch on in regards to the Ainur, one of the questions I get most often when people find out I'm a Tolkien nerd is to explain what the heck Sauron and Gandalf actually are lol. Also an Ainur Pokerap is actually a very good idea! There are so many of them that I find myself forgetting names and who is who all the time 😭
Thank you! I've noticed that not only are questions about wizards, Sauron, Valinor, Eagles, etc common, they're also hard to explain concisely... saying 'oh Sauron is one of the Maiar' does not really help in the context of LotR 😅 There should be a bonus verse about obscure Book of Lost Tales Ainur like Meassë and Salmar. They're canonical in my heart.
Precisely great analogy I always thought the same as well . And melkor it's basically equated to Lucifer / Satan because he was the most highly favored by Ill'uvator and basically turned on him and went against him .
It seems to me Tolkien wanted the story of Middle Earth to have some mystery and unanswered questions. Sometimes when Tolkien was interviewed and asked about certain things he would respond that it is unknown or a mystery. As if he was an observer of his work of fiction rather than the creator of it.
Girl next door, this is my first encounter with you. I find you as bright, thorough, and articulate as a scholar, yet as approachable as a classmate sitting round the table at dinner. I hope you write novels or something similar.
Excellent clear and concise video about the Ainur and their place in Ëa. I don't think I would have brushed off the importance of memorizing all the names if I were you, however. Anyone who seriously wants to delve deep into Tolkien lore will need to memorize these important characters and their places in the Legendarium, IMO.
People would probably be appalled to know how many concepts - especially the more obscure ones! - I first got familiar with through reading fanfics 😆 easiest way to study ever.
I definitely agree that getting familiar with the Valar is important for people who are ready, like you said, to delve deep - and luckily there's plenty of resources out there to help with that, including the actual Silmarillion 😅 But there's also a lot of fans whose appreciation of the novels and films will be enhanced just by knowing the Valar exist, and I'd never want someone to think they're somehow not 'qualified' to enjoy Middle-earth unless they've memorized intimidating lists of funny-sounding names!
The Ainur are more the Minor Gods and Eru is the Lone Major God. The Ainur quasi created the world and all that is in it. Ainur most part interact with Arda and Eru doesn't but They Ainur do the Divine Grunt work instead of Eru Himself doing it but though at times Eru will answer some prayers but the Ainur take alot more prayers and worship and offerings. Manwe and Melkor and Eru and Yivanna were worshiped largely by the gondorians. In both numenor and mainland middle earth.
Thank you 🥰 Glad you enjoyed it! If there had been room I think including an appendix or so about the Valar would have helped clear up a lot of confusion for readers of LotR.
A very good intro to the Ainur! Definitely for those poor readers who have to read the first chapters of the Silmarillion and wonder why it's so very different from LOTR and the Hobbit!
Good point! Most of this info is *in* the Silmarillion, but it can be so harder to read/understand that book if you don't have at least some context for how it's going to relate back to the other stories. It's a very different ride than the Hobbit for sure 😆
6:55 - Um, I think it's fairly clear that the Eagles were introduced during the making of Arda, and were not pre-existing. But I guess that doesn't mean that "at some point in time" Tolkien didn't consider some alternative to that.
They are not God's they are Angelic Beings. The difference is pretty Vitaly important to the story as Tolkein was a devout Catholic and the chief theme of the story is the supremacy and Oneness of G-D who in the story is called Eru-Iluvatar. The Ainur are pure spiritual being that on occasion choose to clothe themselves I'm flesh to interact. Where as the Elves are also spiritual being that come in a body of their own as opposed to a disguise of their making.
Exactly Eru Ilúvatar is basically God . Then there was the Valar and Mainor who were essentially angels collectively known as The Ainur . The Valar are more powerful than the Mainor which you can equate to Angels to Archangels . Then you have Melkor a.k.a Morgoth who was essentially Lucifer/Satan . He was a Valar who was basically jealous of Ill'uvator and wanted to create life but couldn't because only Ill'uvators music is strong enough to do that he also has the flame imperishable which Melkor tried to find but couldn't because it was in Ill'uvators possession. Melkor was the strongest Valar and favored by Ill'uvator he could only twist existing life hence turning elves into orcs etc . Melkor even fell and became Morgoth (Lucifer becoming Satan ) the creation story of Arda ( the world in which middle earth exist ) . Is genius and you can def see the parralels to the the bible creation story .
I quite enjoy the read that Tom Bombadil is in fact Eru Iluvatar. I find the irony pleasing that the Hobbits came across God immediately in their adventures and all he accomplished was to be an annoying and disconnected diversion from the mission!
Anything that can make a sun or a moon qualifies as a "god" in my book. One question barely ever broached by Tolkien fan outlets is the problem of religion, or lack of one, in Middle Earth. Was Tolkien afraid of broaching the subject because of his own Catholicism? Or did he simply not want to offend any readers who might take issue with some aspect of a religion he did create and put in his stories? If he was intending to write a faux-history then leaving out religions means Tolkien really did not intend for Middle Earth to represent our history (something some of the whiners over Amazon's RoP seem to miss.)
I think there is a reflection of Catholicism here. Catholicism relies heavily on "intermediaries" between oneself and the Almighty. Your priest hears your confessional, various saints are approached in prayer rather than directly to God, certain angels hold specific responsibilities over the natural world, etc. I feel this is reflected in Middle Earth. Eru Iluvatar is revered, but seen as distant, and any help from Him is either unannounced (coincidence, date) or the result of appeal by/through the Ainur. As a Christian I don't agree with this, but it is consistent with Catholic doctrine.
The Ainur are the musicians in the orchestra performing Eru Iluvatar's composition. Melkor Morgoth tried to play free jazz but Iluvatar did a just as planned
That is a lie Sauron sold to the Half-Elves....the dissonance redirected the orchestra! Those who could improvise resisted the thralldom. Earendil improvised on Eru's original theme and returned the chorus to it.
12:00 does one get the idea that Tolkien wouldn't like the idea of Bludgeoning people over the head with enforced traditions? Cause that's what it feels like.
Not really. He was a _very_ devout traditionalist Catholic, and was very big on the importance of Catholic "ritual," for lack of a better term. It's more that he didn't want to portray a fictional or non-Christian religion in a positive light, but also didn't want to cram explicit Christianity into his story. So he went with the route of mostly not having religion among the good guys.
I think it's a both/and situation. Hard to argue that someone with such a deep appreciation for, eg, the Catholic Mass as Tolkien had would be opposed to ritual or tradition *as such* - but having an appreciation or reverence for something also typically means that one is very sensitive to its possible misuses.
@@GirlNextGondor yes, that's a plausible explanation, but i also think the main reason is that he really wanted his creation to exist for itself without any ulterior motives while naturally at the same time being infused or enshrined with his own values and beliefs, experience etc. This is probably also why he was accused of escapism by literary critics because they couldn't find any apparent double meaning. He's not trying to persuade anyone. Simply inviting you in.
and any specific references to religions or ideologies are as Christopher Tolkien succinctly put it, "if available at all, will be in solution, in the secondary mythological world that he has created, but not actually itself"
The Ainur differ radically from "angels" in any Abrahamitic religion in that they do participate in creation. They are part of the song of creation and enter Ea, shaping the world physically and create all forms of life, like plants, animals and even perversions of true spiritual life. This means that they are far more than angels in a judeo-christian worldview. They are a lot more like the pagan pantheon of "gods" than angels, in any form we know it. The modern Christian interpretation of Tolkien's legendarium, totally misses that point. Ulmo is much more like Poseidon than Gabriel, and those who miss that point, are just biased. Besides, they are not just "angelic" spirits. They probably were in the early ages, but as the first and second age progressed, they had to be incarnate or stay out of mortal/immortal business. They had no power without a physical form.
Ist sick geworden. Weiter so! Guys, ich bin ein kleiner Newcomer, will aber wachsen. Dafür bräuchste ich allerdings Feedback von euch. Es wäre mega toll, wenn ich mir Rückmeldung geben könnt.
I don’t understand why we don’t see a lick of religion in middle earth! In the second age Sauron led people to the worship of Morgoth. Why didn’t the wizards lead Men to understand the worship of their creators. Or at least he’ll them understand why they couldn’t enter the undying lands.
My Balar name is Bythios and I'm the naked guy in the Middle of the other ainur my power is closest to that of Eru Illuvatar and I gifted Eru with the flame imperishable as I don't need it and can create certain things with and without it and can recreate flame imperishable to create a body for myself to inhabit. I'm older than Eru Source Ahura Olodumare Bythos Vishnu Shivah
Gotta give serious respect to the Maiar that fly the sun and moon around, because I know that if I was in that position, I wouldn't be able to stop myself from doing donuts in the sky with the moon and freaking everyone on Middle-Earth out.
I think the biggest thing to note regarding the "why don't the ainur intervene" do keep in mind that whenever they have, both pre and post incarnate awakening, it has caused catastrophic damage to Arda. As creative beings I doubt that they enjoy blowing up all the stuff they made, or killing various beings dwelling there either.
Agreed - I think a lot of it has to do with Morgoth contaminating everything, usually with the result that when the situation gets so bad the Valar HAVE to get involved, they can't 'salvage' much and have to destroy everything that's been too corrupted to save. Including whole civilizations, if need be.
@@GirlNextGondor One major lesson I take from Tolkien is that if you let things get so bad that Eru has to get involved substantially and directly, things are not going to go well no matter which side you’re on. Better to do your best to make things better as well as you can and hope to keep Eru’s need to intervene restricted to the absolute minimum, e.g. letting Gollum fall off the precipice. This is the problem with waiting for evil to go so far that it finally runs afoul of the laws of reality: you wind up with things like the destruction of Numenor, in which many more good people die and suffer the way things played out than if Ar-Pharazon and his cult had been more hindered in Numenor/Arda.
@@GirlNextGondor but still my question is : why they favored so much the elves compared to the men? even numenor was given ONLY to some men ater they fought against the strongest maiar, while to the elves everything was given ..let alone how ,expcet Ulmo, never cared abiut men(hell Mndos was ready to kill earendil )
@@GirlNextGondor what about the easterlings it looks like the valar only cared about the west
@@rhythmicmusicswap4173 men have God on their side that even things
I remember when I first read the Lord of the Rings (after I had seen the movies), and I got to the part where Aragorn is telling the Hobbits about Lay of Luthein, and mentions Morgorth, of whom Sauron was just a servant, my mind was blown and then they don't even mention Morgoth again!
The big moment for me is when Frodo hears the Elves in the Woody End and says he knows they're High Elves because they 'spoke the name of Elbereth,' like that's supposed to mean something very important - and we get a *little* more info (and plenty of references) to Elbereth in the novel, but we never get more than hints and glimpses of what an 'Elbereth' even is, or why she's so significant that her very name makes people tremble in awe or fear. And this from a writer notorious for the level of detail in his backstory! 🤣
@@GirlNextGondor I remember being so confused, like what am i missing!!!
It was all those kinds of lines scattered throughout Lords of the Rings that made Middle-Earth feel so real to me, because it had a history and some people knew this history and would make references to it like we would to our own.
They technically didn't have the rights to use anything to do with Luthein or Morgoth in the Lord of the Rings films. Legally they couldn't do more than use the words they did. They had the rights to the material of the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit but nothing else.
@@GirlNextGondor What you're saying is that Tolkien was a master at including JUST enough exposition to tease and intrigue, but not enough to make it a treatise. The books encourage you to keep reading, and then read them again, and you always find something you didn't see previously.
I did not catch the idea that the Valar discourage worship of themselves (with one notable exception, of course). And while Elves and other people do invoke the Valar, it is not worship, it is begging for help. Strangely enough, the Vala that is more willing to help - Ulmo - is not the most called upon, maybe because most of the named Eldar we meet have, hmm, past history with him, and maybe because they know that invoking his name too near a body of water means a Tuor-grade Event and that tends to be unsettling. Manwe sends the eagles, but Ulmo shows up *in person*.
That makes a lot of sense - one thing that struck me that I didn't get into is that Ulmo is described as *terrifying* in aspect, despite being among the most sympathetic to Men and Elves. (Tolkien even delegates the more 'adversarial' ocean traits of storms, rages, unpredictability to Osse, and yet Ulmo is still formidable just through the sheer profundity of his power.) It's neat to think these are two sides of the same trait - his willingness to get up close and personal with his votaries.
This is a great point. Maybe he is never worshipped because he never proclaims being a diety, nor does he ever request or demand that anyone worship him.
I think the Elves praise Elbereth Gilthoniel because the stars had always given them hope and a theme for many of their songs. Some may think that is a form of worship, maybe even Eru thinks it is.🤔
@@Enerdhil The elves also woke underneath the stars and until they reached Valinor, it was the only natural light they had.
yeah it's strange ,considering Ulmo problably the best and most emphatics and wise ally elves and men coul have
@@GirlNextGondor If I was a Valar, Maiar or just a human I would strive in ways to surpass Eru.
2:04 This is very interesting to me. Though they require (as you said) no food, in Morgoth's Ring there is a passage stating that at festivals the would dine with the other folk gathered there (elves and maiar). This is fascinating in respect to the fact the they need not a physical form, yet choose to do so, moreover in the likeness of the Eruhíni. This is (among other things) shows the love of the Valar for the Children of Eru. But I believe it also shows their being bounded to the world, for the more the partake in activities of this world (i.e. physical activities) the more Earth-bound they become. In doing so their power wanes (as evidenced by Melian), causing them to "fade" as it were, saying that (and I'm paraphrasing here) "That even the Valar would, in the end, grow weary of the World, and become envious of Men, who's fate is beyond Arda". This shows (I believe) that the Valar had become bounded and tied to Arda. And, indeed, experienced a waning of power. Anyways, this is just speculation on my part, and is not (that I am aware of) "cannon', but it does arouse some thought provoking questions. Great video, as always! Namarië!
At the beginning of The Silmarillion it is mentioned that the Ainur developed to the extent that they understood each other's melody during the performance of the music and that the harmony in the music increased. An example of this is when Ulmo appears to Turgon and Finrod in their dreams. I interpret this event as Ulmo's understanding of Lórien's and Mandos's melody in music. There are many other similar examples. This is just one of them.
Yes - one of my favorite aspects of the Valar and of the idea of Tolkien's creation story being envisioned as a giant collaborative song! Yavanna and Nienna work together on the Trees; Manwe and Varda use each other's powers to see and hear goings-on in Arda; Manwe's growing sympathy with Yavanna leads to the discovery of the possibility of Ents and seems to be related to Manwe's realization that both Aule and Yavanna in their own spheres are concerned with *height* and therefore overlap more with his sphere than he thought.... I love when the Valar collaborate on things 🥰
@@GirlNextGondor I'm particularly fond of these couple of paragraphs from the Ainulindalë.
“And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the ever changing mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.'
Then Ulmo answered: 'Truly, Water is become now fairer than my heart imagined, neither had my secret thought conceived the snowflake, nor in all my music was contained the falling of the rain. I will seek Manwe, that he and I may make melodies for ever to my delight!' And Manwe and Ulmo have from the beginning been allied, and in all things have served most faithfully the purpose of Iluvatar.”
Tolkien was such a literary genius , the Hobbit and Lord of the rings was amazing but the silmarillion was such a rich and complex story , I honestly can't think of any other author that put that much detail into the creation of there universe and the beings that helped .
I'm so glad I stumbled across your channel! My late-husband was pratically a Tolkien scholar! Have ALL the books, also used to talk about Tolkien works all the time! Like while he was in school, he made the pyre that Denethor was on, holding a Palantier in his hands! ALL of this got me so interested in reading them myself! I did so before we went to see The Fellowship of the Ring! Because after I did so, I knew now how things are supposed to go! There was this group of college students, dressed up as Tolkien Elves, for extra credit! And we would hear them gripe on occasion too! My late-husband loved the Tolkien works, and the world built within them, so much! I'm a BIG Tolkien's work lover, because of him!
That's so neat! I love that your husband was able to share his interest with you so that you're now able to enjoy Tolkien as well. (And I would have loved to see his recreation of Denethor's pyre.) Glad you're enjoying the channel!
Oromë, stress on the first syllable. Lesson learned, thank you!
They're basically Tolkien Elves to Tolkien's elves: older siblings with greater knowledge and wisdom who gladly offer aid, but still fallible and won't solve everything for their stubborn younger siblings.
I agree. It's important to show that even Elves have a whole class of being above them that they can't wholly fathom.
Your videos have had some really professional details since well near the beginning of your channel. The floaty special effects, consistent titling themes, creating categories of videos, etc. Here’s a vote of appreciation for care taken in packaging!
Actually I sometimes get distracted by the visual effects and have to rewind the video because I missed what Lexi said.😅
@@Enerdhil my problem is more this: She’ll say something that is a Tolkien tangential thought trigger, and by the time I stop thinking through my thought, I noticed I’ve lost track of a minute or two of video. This is a good problem for a video to create, but it does mean I effectively end up watching the video three times.
😆 So what I'm hearing from both of you is: these videos are distracting and hard to follow; we like it; make them more distracting please. Challenge accepted.
@@jpbjoel
😂😆🤣😆😂
I am equally guilty of that behavior, Mellon.
I think there are a lot of subs that want to digest everything Lexi says in her videos and so do what we do. I just hope it has a more positive effect effect on the algorithms and generates more first-time viewers and subs for her.😁
@@GirlNextGondor
OMG! Speak of the devil.👿 😂😆🤣😆😂
All the beautiful art you include and credit adds so much to the experience. I think you’re a really good story teller too
Thank you!! 😊 Really appreciate hearing that and I'm happy you enjoyed the experience.
@@GirlNextGondor I watch all your vids as soon as they drop :)
I used to think that the Valar actually participated in the War of Wrath because when I read "the march of the host of the Valar," I assumed all the Valar we're among this host. Now, I just assume they did not fight to take Morgoth down. I think the Elves of the Undying Lands did all the fighting, with some help from Maiar, such as Ëonwë commanding the host. I do, however feel that the Valar "extracted" Morgoth from Angband, resulting in the sinking of Beleriand.
Tulkas wrestled with Melkor! This is the manifestation of Eru wresting the theme of creation back from Melkor. Each consecutive age has characters and narratives echoing this same theme.
I figure the other elves (including Elrond and Elros) also fought
@@dayofayanju9021
For sure. Everyone already in Beleriand who didn't side with Morgoth fought against him.
I still don't find it plausible that Beleriand would end up sinking beneath the waves unless there were Valar and Maiar taking part in the combat. Indeed, I highly doubt that the elves of Valinor, even with Ëonwë leading them, would have been able to defeat Morgoth's armies.
@@istari0
I completely agree with you. A bunch of High Elves with zero combat experience will defeat an army bred to kill.... Sorry, I don't think so. I guess the Light of the Trees shines in the Elves' faces and terrifies the orcs, Balrogs, and dragons so that the Elves can slay them without a fight.🤔
I'm not the only one who really wants to hear that Ainur Pokerap, am I...?
Not Jeff here. I was surprised as a kid to find that Hobbit and LOTR didn't have a trace of what we call"religion". Sure there was plenty of magic and mystery, but no prayer, gods, worship. Then I started learning about the Silmarillion (haven't read it all the way through, still) and was astounded to read about the Ainur and their roles in the creation of Middle Earth.
Now I know that there can't be "religion" as we know it. Religion requires faith in ethereal being(s) and living your life to gain or stay in their favor. The Valar don't require faith. The Elves know that they exist. Heck, they go retire with them. The creation of Arda is history, not a mysterious myth. Having faith to believe in the Valar is akin to needing faith to believe in Harriet Tubman or George III or Emperor Naruhito. They are fact! And they aren't going to answer your prayers, even if you burn an Ent on their alters or tithe a tenth of your mithril.
The Valar are going to leave everyone alone, unless you invade their retirement home. That's Sauron's crime in Melkor worship, duping the humans into believing that the Dark Lord could be bought with gifts and flattery. And lots of blood.
It's interesting that Tolkien, that most devout man, portrayed the one explicit religion as an abomination.
Well, it is Eru that they believe is The One True God, they may not worship him like religious practices we know, but it is a fact that they recognise the valar and differentiate them from him. That’s why Sauron tricked the Númenorians, they told them that the valar lied and there is no such thing as Eru.
The thing I struggled with most when first reading the Silmarillion wasn't the Ainur; it was all the elven names, particularly those beginning with Fin. Of course, he then went a doubled down on it with Fingolfin and Finarfin. Fins everywhere! That's not to say keeping all the Ainur straight was easy but I wasn't going to get Manwë and Ulmo confused because their names were so similar.
After much thought, I have reached the conclusion that I believe Ungoliant is one of the Ainur. She was early on corrupted by Melkor before deciding to go her own way. They got back together briefly and she was sufficiently powerful that once she had consumed all the available light from the Two Trees, she was a serious threat to Morgoth at that time. All of that says Ainur to me, albeit one quite different from the others we have met. Then again, as you pointed out, the Valar and Maiar sometimes assumed far from humanoid forms and not all the Ainur went to Arda.
I think Tom Bombadil is simply what he says he is, Tom Bombadil. To me, his description of himself as eldest, fatherless, etc best fits with him being part of the template created by the Music of the Ainur and used by Eru Ilúvatar to create Arda. He was the first living being in Arda and he was unique.
I think it’s interesting that despite Tolkien’s devout Catholicism, Eru Illuvatar lacks many of the personality qualities of Adonai/YHWH. In any case, by giving the Valar domains and personalities, properties of their own it felt like he masterfully harmonized the aesthetics of classic European “mythology” with monotheistic theology.
That's exactly what he did he pulled a lot of inspiration from the Bible obviously but also a lot from European mythology and stuff too Tolkien was a genius
Not at all related to the video, but hearing your description of Ulmo reminded me. Is there any technical link between water and foresight? Ulmo and the dreams, Galadriel's mirror, Círdan, etc. could all just be coincidence. There's clealry some kind of association there, but I can't remember seeing anything of the sort mentioned by Tolkien himself.
I've had that thought before, I wonder if it has something to do with Ulmo having the 'deepest' knowledge of the theme or the whole 'the echo of the music of the Ainur can be heard in the ocean waves"? Like, is water more attuned to destiny than other elements? ...or possibly Tolkien just liked water, found it relaxing, etc?
@@GirlNextGondor the connection with Ulmo and water could be something similar to Morgoth and gold. I've been heavily interested in what Tolkien called the 'Atlantis complex', so Frodo and Merry's dreams are what bring me to this in particular. Frodo had an exceptional amount of foresight!
What does it mean, when two valars are considered siblings? Are there parents? Is that a case where Ainur prokreate as an exception to the rule?
Good question! - it's not wholly explained, but a phrase that Tolkien uses is brothers/siblings 'in the thought of Eru.' Since all the Ainur were created out of Eru's mind before time, in one sense ALL of them are 'siblings'; they all share the same 'father.' But it seems like that some of them were created with certain similarities or relationships that make them like brothers or sisters. (The examples I gave in the video, for instance, were Namo and Irmo, responsible for Death and Sleep, and Orome and Nessa, who both love speed and chasing - so you can see a sort of 'family' resemblance in their interests and powers.)
@@GirlNextGondor sine eru made us does that make melkor our brother
Please do longer video about Eru Ilivatar. Thank You
Hey - just wanted to say that I have really enjoyed your various videos, and your interpretations of Tolkien's work are spot-on. I especially enjoyed the videos focusing on the pairings between Maiar, Elves and Men. I did want to add, specifically for this video, that my understanding of the Silmarillion (Ainulindale) is that the Ainur really did create Arda - that their song was what summoned all of creation, but it was Iluvatar's power that brought it into being, as opposed to remaining a "musical vision." So, they are creators, in terms of being conduits to Iluvatar's power. I have always felt that the Ainur were much more than just custodians of someone else's world.
Not a newcomer but I love your videos. Your knowledge of the legendarium is both broad and deep, your delivery is clear and concise.
And then there's the ART! Wow! Subbed!
Now we need an Ainur 'poke'Rap...
After a bunch of videos, you are the first that explain everything slow and clear way for someone new for the subject 😎😎
Was shocked to see how new you where to Youtbe, This was a great, possibly the best on The Ainur, your narration is so easy to listen too. Good job :)
Good stuff as ever GNG. I love finding the traces of ancient things in the LotR and to some extent the Hobbit. The Silmarillion is a fine thing in itself though different. It is the background and depth which the professor so meticulously created, therefore he struggled to create depth in the depth if you get me. The Ainur, are given that depth well however,by their association with the music of creation and by their relationships and various powers. Thanks for drawing out these things so well and keep up the good work.
Oh my God, I never knew that I needed a PokéRap styled rap about the Valar until now, but I don't think I'll be able to sleep until this exists. Can you make this like a Patreon or subscriber goal or something?
Now that's not a bad idea 🤔...
I'm so happy to see a new GNG video!
😍
Excellent summary! It's funny how little information LOTR and TH touch on in regards to the Ainur, one of the questions I get most often when people find out I'm a Tolkien nerd is to explain what the heck Sauron and Gandalf actually are lol.
Also an Ainur Pokerap is actually a very good idea! There are so many of them that I find myself forgetting names and who is who all the time 😭
Thank you! I've noticed that not only are questions about wizards, Sauron, Valinor, Eagles, etc common, they're also hard to explain concisely... saying 'oh Sauron is one of the Maiar' does not really help in the context of LotR 😅
There should be a bonus verse about obscure Book of Lost Tales Ainur like Meassë and Salmar. They're canonical in my heart.
Thanks lexi .. i always saw them as arch angels. Rather than gods , with maia as lesser angels.
Precisely great analogy I always thought the same as well . And melkor it's basically equated to Lucifer / Satan because he was the most highly favored by Ill'uvator and basically turned on him and went against him .
The effort in your videos does not go unnoticed thank you
It seems to me Tolkien wanted the story of Middle Earth to have some mystery and unanswered questions. Sometimes when Tolkien was interviewed and asked about certain things he would respond that it is unknown or a mystery. As if he was an observer of his work of fiction rather than the creator of it.
Crazy thought but what if just what if middle earth etc is an actual realm and Ill'uvator spoke to him and wanted him to tell the story
Brilliant as ever. Thank you. I also think I adore the patron called Elu Thiccgol. The best name in the internet.
Fantastic job as usual Lexi 👍
I love your videos; very informative and entertaining 👏
Thank you, Lexi!
Yay! Watching now!
Girl next door, this is my first encounter with you. I find you as bright, thorough, and articulate as a scholar, yet as approachable as a classmate sitting round the table at dinner.
I hope you write novels or something similar.
Excellent clear and concise video about the Ainur and their place in Ëa. I don't think I would have brushed off the importance of memorizing all the names if I were you, however. Anyone who seriously wants to delve deep into Tolkien lore will need to memorize these important characters and their places in the Legendarium, IMO.
Oh, read a couple hundred fanfic and you can rattle them all off in both Quenya and Sindarin with no problem.
@@annafdd
That's great as long as you are as well-versed in the actual Legendarium.
People would probably be appalled to know how many concepts - especially the more obscure ones! - I first got familiar with through reading fanfics 😆 easiest way to study ever.
@@GirlNextGondor
Are you trying to tempt me to write some fan fiction about the reuniting of the Ents and the Entwives?!!🤣😆😂
I definitely agree that getting familiar with the Valar is important for people who are ready, like you said, to delve deep - and luckily there's plenty of resources out there to help with that, including the actual Silmarillion 😅
But there's also a lot of fans whose appreciation of the novels and films will be enhanced just by knowing the Valar exist, and I'd never want someone to think they're somehow not 'qualified' to enjoy Middle-earth unless they've memorized intimidating lists of funny-sounding names!
you can not talk about eru illuvitar without talking about the "imperishable flame" what a name...
The Ainur are more the Minor Gods and Eru is the Lone Major God. The Ainur quasi created the world and all that is in it. Ainur most part interact with Arda and Eru doesn't but They Ainur do the Divine Grunt work instead of Eru Himself doing it but though at times Eru will answer some prayers but the Ainur take alot more prayers and worship and offerings. Manwe and Melkor and Eru and Yivanna were worshiped largely by the gondorians. In both numenor and mainland middle earth.
Great summary 💕
Thank you 🥰 Glad you enjoyed it! If there had been room I think including an appendix or so about the Valar would have helped clear up a lot of confusion for readers of LotR.
So good to hear a woman's point t if virw on these things. I'd love to hear the elven/human stories. Did you do a video with Matt from the DorkLords?
very, very smart explanations!
Great show! Love the growth of the channel! Glad to be an OG sub lol!
Let's goooooooo :Do
Was looking forward to this one!
A very good intro to the Ainur! Definitely for those poor readers who have to read the first chapters of the Silmarillion and wonder why it's so very different from LOTR and the Hobbit!
Good point! Most of this info is *in* the Silmarillion, but it can be so harder to read/understand that book if you don't have at least some context for how it's going to relate back to the other stories. It's a very different ride than the Hobbit for sure 😆
Another great video! Keep up the great work! Best regards from Arnor :))
🙂 Nice work!
6:55 - Um, I think it's fairly clear that the Eagles were introduced during the making of Arda, and were not pre-existing. But I guess that doesn't mean that "at some point in time" Tolkien didn't consider some alternative to that.
Hey, can you provide a link to that image of Varda that appears at 8:39? I find that to be a rather amazing piece of art, but I can't find it online.
Eeeeeeeee!!!!
(More later 😍😍😍😍, once I've heard it all a couple more times)
thanks for the detailed video my precioussss 😆
Amazing video ... subbed!
Well-written! Thank you 😃
Not that I think I'm contributing much with this thought, but there's a song that makes me think of Morgoth, NIN's "Ruiner."
Great video keep up the good work
They are not God's they are Angelic Beings. The difference is pretty Vitaly important to the story as Tolkein was a devout Catholic and the chief theme of the story is the supremacy and Oneness of G-D who in the story is called Eru-Iluvatar. The Ainur are pure spiritual being that on occasion choose to clothe themselves I'm flesh to interact. Where as the Elves are also spiritual being that come in a body of their own as opposed to a disguise of their making.
Exactly Eru Ilúvatar is basically God . Then there was the Valar and Mainor who were essentially angels collectively known as The Ainur . The Valar are more powerful than the Mainor which you can equate to Angels to Archangels . Then you have Melkor a.k.a Morgoth who was essentially Lucifer/Satan . He was a Valar who was basically jealous of Ill'uvator and wanted to create life but couldn't because only Ill'uvators music is strong enough to do that he also has the flame imperishable which Melkor tried to find but couldn't because it was in Ill'uvators possession. Melkor was the strongest Valar and favored by Ill'uvator he could only twist existing life hence turning elves into orcs etc . Melkor even fell and became Morgoth (Lucifer becoming Satan ) the creation story of Arda ( the world in which middle earth exist ) . Is genius and you can def see the parralels to the the bible creation story .
4:22 What's a poke wrap? 🤓
I quite enjoy the read that Tom Bombadil is in fact Eru Iluvatar. I find the irony pleasing that the Hobbits came across God immediately in their adventures and all he accomplished was to be an annoying and disconnected diversion from the mission!
HUH???!!!
*reveals its true might to the algorithm* LIKE LIKE LIKE LIKE
Anything that can make a sun or a moon qualifies as a "god" in my book. One question barely ever broached by Tolkien fan outlets is the problem of religion, or lack of one, in Middle Earth. Was Tolkien afraid of broaching the subject because of his own Catholicism? Or did he simply not want to offend any readers who might take issue with some aspect of a religion he did create and put in his stories? If he was intending to write a faux-history then leaving out religions means Tolkien really did not intend for Middle Earth to represent our history (something some of the whiners over Amazon's RoP seem to miss.)
I think there is a reflection of Catholicism here. Catholicism relies heavily on "intermediaries" between oneself and the Almighty. Your priest hears your confessional, various saints are approached in prayer rather than directly to God, certain angels hold specific responsibilities over the natural world, etc. I feel this is reflected in Middle Earth. Eru Iluvatar is revered, but seen as distant, and any help from Him is either unannounced (coincidence, date) or the result of appeal by/through the Ainur.
As a Christian I don't agree with this, but it is consistent with Catholic doctrine.
YEEEEEEEE
Couldn't agree more.
@@GirlNextGondor no higher thought, just elation 😇
11:39 so these are gods that "DO NOT" want to be worshipped. They just want their creation to just do what they gotta do.
Nice work
**thats such a great opening1* idk is you keep is, but tus good.
_JC'
Am I the only one that now wants a Vala rap??
The Ainur are the musicians in the orchestra performing Eru Iluvatar's composition. Melkor Morgoth tried to play free jazz but Iluvatar did a just as planned
That is a lie Sauron sold to the Half-Elves....the dissonance redirected the orchestra! Those who could improvise resisted the thralldom. Earendil improvised on Eru's original theme and returned the chorus to it.
@@darthex0 nah. Eru is omnipotent and omniscient. Everything happens according to his will.
In my headcanon Morgoth invented Heavy Metal.
"2 unavailable videos are hidden" :(
I for one would have enjoyed an Ainur “Pokérap”
I love your page
I'm so glad!
Byah!
12:00 does one get the idea that Tolkien wouldn't like the idea of Bludgeoning people over the head with enforced traditions? Cause that's what it feels like.
Not really. He was a _very_ devout traditionalist Catholic, and was very big on the importance of Catholic "ritual," for lack of a better term. It's more that he didn't want to portray a fictional or non-Christian religion in a positive light, but also didn't want to cram explicit Christianity into his story. So he went with the route of mostly not having religion among the good guys.
I think it's a both/and situation. Hard to argue that someone with such a deep appreciation for, eg, the Catholic Mass as Tolkien had would be opposed to ritual or tradition *as such* - but having an appreciation or reverence for something also typically means that one is very sensitive to its possible misuses.
@@GirlNextGondor yes, that's a plausible explanation, but i also think the main reason is that he really wanted his creation to exist for itself without any ulterior motives while naturally at the same time being infused or enshrined with his own values and beliefs, experience etc. This is probably also why he was accused of escapism by literary critics because they couldn't find any apparent double meaning. He's not trying to persuade anyone. Simply inviting you in.
and any specific references to religions or ideologies are as Christopher Tolkien succinctly put it, "if available at all, will be in solution, in the secondary mythological world that he has created, but not actually itself"
The Ainur differ radically from "angels" in any Abrahamitic religion in that they do participate in creation. They are part of the song of creation and enter Ea, shaping the world physically and create all forms of life, like plants, animals and even perversions of true spiritual life. This means that they are far more than angels in a judeo-christian worldview.
They are a lot more like the pagan pantheon of "gods" than angels, in any form we know it. The modern Christian interpretation of Tolkien's legendarium, totally misses that point. Ulmo is much more like Poseidon than Gabriel, and those who miss that point, are just biased.
Besides, they are not just "angelic" spirits. They probably were in the early ages, but as the first and second age progressed, they had to be incarnate or stay out of mortal/immortal business. They had no power without a physical form.
13:22-13:32 huh, sounds very familiar.
good stuff
Ist sick geworden. Weiter so!
Guys, ich bin ein kleiner Newcomer, will aber wachsen. Dafür bräuchste ich allerdings Feedback von euch. Es wäre mega toll, wenn ich mir Rückmeldung geben könnt.
I don’t understand why we don’t see a lick of religion in middle earth! In the second age Sauron led people to the worship of Morgoth. Why didn’t the wizards lead Men to understand the worship of their creators. Or at least he’ll them understand why they couldn’t enter the undying lands.
Ainur? Damn near killed 'ur!
... I'll let myself out.
🤣 it's engagement like this that makes all the work worthwhile
@@GirlNextGondor Glad I can give back in my small way.
Rad!
😇
Tell they don’t reproduce to Mellian. She obviously didn’t get that memo
She likes doing the nasty
Ain’t she a maiar tho ?
I'm the oldest spirit in existence
Religion narratives can't comprehend the greatness that I am I am power and creative energy.
🦚🦚🦚
If they "aren't"? then why are you calling them gods then ? Huh.
My Balar name is Bythios and I'm the naked guy in the Middle of the other ainur my power is closest to that of Eru Illuvatar and I gifted Eru with the flame imperishable as I don't need it and can create certain things with and without it and can recreate flame imperishable to create a body for myself to inhabit. I'm older than Eru Source Ahura Olodumare Bythos Vishnu Shivah