9000 kms in the Grenadier (diesel)...what I don't like!
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- Опубліковано 22 вер 2024
- After 9000 kilometers in some the hotest and remotest parts of Australia's outback this is a an unbiased summary of my thoughts on the Ineos Grenadier Trialmaster.. Travelling on many unsealed or unmade outback tracks combined with long stretches of highway kilometres it was a good test for this new four wheel drive vehicle. I don't focus on the off road capability of the Grenadier as I believe it is well established as one of the most capable available. I do however look at those thing I think could have been done a little better. And I find a big surprises underneath the vehicle!!!
Thanks for the real world feedback. The biggest disappointment for me is the pricing. Not because I think they should be giving them away....but I think there was a "threshold" they went past (at least in Australia). I'm in my mid-forties, I earn a really good wage (well above the average), I have a wife & two kids and a mortgage. So what, right? Well when the Grenadier was first announced I was immediately interested ....and registered with Ineos to be kept up to date. This is/was a car I was absolutely prepared to purchase (even on finance, which I don't do) because I love everything it stands for. I like what it represents and I saw it as a long term vehicle that would meet my needs (especially the ute version). Being an engineer and someone that services my own vehicles, the ability to work on the vehicle at home (supposedly) was a huge tick for me. But....at current pricing, forget it. I'm just not prepared to spend that much for ANY vehicle. And really, off-road vehicles are better when they cost less because they cop a lot of wear & tear. For me, Ineos has pushed it too close to Range Rover / 300 Series etc etc pricing and market position. It's also why the GWM Tank will do so well (a car I could never own). There's a reason why millions of Australians are off-roading and touring around in old Patrols and Landcruisers - they're relatively cheap, parts are still available, the aftermarket support is huge. Ineos could have positioned the Grenny better IMO. The original idea was to get away from where LR had taken the new Defender. The Grenadier was supposed to be the back-to-basics Defender everyone loved for decades. At $130k ++ I'm not sure that goal was met? But at, say, $70k for a base model, you'd see a lot more people interested....
100% Agree.
Agree - the original price for the trialmaster was forecast at ~$82,000, but the next time I looked it was north of $100k. I'll stick with my 2010 GU Patrol wagon. It's got a disappointing engine, sure, but it's had a remap, a valve body upgrade, front autolocker and suspension, so it goes anywhere I need to. It's not bad on the highway, I have a head unit with good rear view cam directly above the towball, plus I run my Samsung tablet for maps. It's only real disappointment is it can't tow very well - 1500kg is it's maximum happy spot even after the remap. Edit: I also love my 150L main tank upgrade which gies me ~180L on board. Last Simpson trip was Mt Dare to Birdsville and NO fuel anxiety (and no Jerry cans on the roof) :)
I totally agree, it is disappointing that there is not a stripped down version which would allow entry at a lower cost which could be built up over time. The thing is I got in very early before the prices started to rise (on all cars) and Ineos held that price (unusual in this day and age). The price now...... sorry would be too much for me to spend on a vehicle also. Thanks for your comment, John
Yes its disappointing, John
"The Grenadier was supposed to be the back-to-basics Defender everyone loved for decades. At $130k ++ I'm not sure that goal was met? But at, say, $70k for a base model, you'd see a lot more people interested"
I totally agree with your points, let's also remember that the Land Rover Puma (updated Defender back in 2007 or so) was even at a lower selling price, LR UK was selling the 90 version for around 18k BP, I had called the UK dealer myself. (quick note, in my country at that time the same exact version was selling for about 31k Euro! I told the UK dealer about that and they freaked out)
As a fellow Grenadier owner from across the ditch (only 1600kms on mine) I can say I pretty much agree with everything you noted here. I find myself nitpicking on minor flaws but as someone else said, perhaps this speaks more about the overall strength and success of the Grenadier. As a first vehicle from Ineos it really is a triumph. Sure there are some frustrations. For me the lack of interior storage, the rear view camera and lack of easily accessible power/usb options are the big ones. All are fixable and can hopefully be addressed by Ineos for mk II. In the meantime, it wil also be possible to buy aftermarket solutions. For me, seat covers from Melvill and Moon will offer some much needed storage and I have options to provide more accessible usb power. Thankfully, none of the irritations are in any way show stoppers. I think anyone thinking of pushing the button on a Grenadier should note that many of the criticisms relate to very minor things that don't detract from a very accomplished offroad vehicle. I've had the latest software update in NZ and haven't had any of the electrical and warning gremlins that have afflicted earlier cars. I'm sure further updates may even improve things further.
Really well said and I totally agree. The car is great and these thing are relatively minor. A mate of mine has recently purchase a new 4x4 with the initials RR and I can tell you his list at about 3 times as long and the car has been back at the dealer almost longer than in his garage at home. also cost IGx2. Thanks for your comment, John
Problem there is they are not what they seem, they are not individual panels The whole thing is one piece. John
Yes easily done. Nothing behind there. I have already mounted two switches there.
So many reviews of what people think, without trying it. Nice to see a review, finally, of someone who owns and uses one, as intended. Thx.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. I also have absolutely no commercial or any other interest other than my own.Cheers John
Thank you John ! I totally agree with your comments. I own a petrol Trailmaster, no issues on 9.000km except minor software. No problems had. Great car if you know you buy a truck, not an SUV schooly.
Thanks for your comment. They are minor issues.. I love this car! Cheers John
Great video series and very much appreciated. there are so many gems in the comments section that I truly hope Ineos take note. As a Land Rover owner I am looking to upgrade shortly and with those gremlins/small issues fixed the Grenadier will be a no-brainer....let's hope the 2nd iteration is uplifted for Aus specs and those smaller issues remedied...
Thank you for your comment. I certainly hope and assume these little issues will be addressed. I am sure you will love it when you upgrade. Cheers John
Great video - I use leather storage pouches that attach to sun-visors! Game changer!! Stick a strong magnet inside and you can also use it as a phone holder! Maybe put a wireless charging magnet inside the pouch?
Thanks, as always, John, for sharing your spot-on observations. I'm due a Genadier here in the US and hate to say it but, like you, I figure I'll be left to buy add-ons (not from China!) that should have been recognized as necessary during development. Imagine not providing a whole market (Australia) with tow parts that are useful to Australian owners! Egad. Same with the rear camera setup - where in their million mile testing did they not try to back park? As you say, these are small matters but standard stuff in 10-year-old cars. Maybe if Ineos had some regular folk instead of just engineers driving test vehicles, they'd have been quickly sorted out. Great work you've been doing and I'll keep tuned in! Thanks, again.
I think you'd be surprised that many 4x4 components are made in Asia, even some of ARB equipment is made in Thailand . Look at the electrical components, many of them are made in China. The good thing is there is a 5 year warranty with all IA components
@@mikefoster7085 certainly true and correct to point out. The concern is that a vehicle selling for a premium shouldn’t have something like side bars that corrode as John’s apparently have - supposedly designed for what he used it (and the cost as a factory part), is unsatisfactory., irrespective of the warranty.
Thanks so much David, I really appreciate your comment. There is so much really good engineering in this car and as you say needed a few non engineers looking at it. I know having an engineering background myself. Australia is a big market and yes a few mods to suit the market here (and others such as yourself and Sth Africa) would have just made big difference for what I imaging would be a small effort...e.g. the hole in the tow ball mount. Regardless, you will love it when it arrives...it's a great machine. John
Yes I agree David, the quality issue on the sidesteps is obvious and they look shabby already....wonder how the 12 year anti corrosion warrant will be applied?? Cheers, John
The point about China is that if anyone starts WW3, it will be them. Don't support China.@@mikefoster7085
When I had my wedding 20 years ago I spent $20k. Had chef great food, all free drinks. My wife said let’s get an ice sculpture. At the time was $300. All anyone talked about after the wedding was that ice sculpture. What I learnt from that is it’s the little things people remember. Ineos to me has paid for the wedding and said we’re done.
I realised once production started that Ineos were no longer interested in making a great car but changed to saving and profit making. Things like not branding transmission shifter. The electrical wiring. The jump in over all costs on an unproven vehicle etc ect. So I got really pissed at them and their billionare boss. I waited 3 years and followed it all along. I mean there this dash that’s little cheap plastic looking with led light. No screen, no head up display etc. they said a digital manual all Numbered parts have out in CAD style view format. Not that either. that to me was the end. Form$120k and with respect. I’m saving for a Land Cruiser Sport. I mean I wasn’t expecting a billionare to be altruistic but I wasn’t expecting after all that good love and community to have to maximise his profits. I mean he be dead in 10 years
Got to say I love the wedding story!! You make some valid points and I understand your frustration. Thing is you're going to get great car with the Land cruiser and probably feel happier about it. I appreciate your comment, John
You have such a relaxed chilled out way of reviewing your vehicle. Just enjoyed watching you.
Thanks Herman, I really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment, John
Love the honesty in your review.
Good to hear you are enjoying your Grenadier.
Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
Excellent “real world” review of the Grenadier. I have a base model on order here in the US. When our vehicles arrive, the first shipment is out at sea, I feel that most of the software updates and small items will have been addressed.
It looks like Ineos got the Grenadier 99.5% correct right out of the gate. That alone is pretty amazing. It’s encouraging to hear that you have encountered zero squeaks or rattles after many miles of driving on washboard roads that wreak havoc on suspensions and body integrity.
Well I bet you can't wait.. you will love it. The engineering on this car is top class and yes no rattles or squeaks.... the other little issues will sort themselves out.
Thanks for your comment, John
Is it available in US? If yes it's a good surprise.
US dealers just received their demonstrator models. I have a test drive this Saturday.
Great honest review and very appreciated. Thank for doing the 1000’s of Km’s and loved the trip.well done
Thank you for taking the time to make that comment, I really appreciate it, John
I love the honest opinion
Thank you, I really appreciate you taking the time to comment, John
Towing is obviously a whoopsie, but we know the combination of Kiwi cunning, an Australian star picket and some No 8 Wire cures all issues. With those, eventually, we get resolutions. Sidecutters are wonderful things! Your tales and the discovery of a sticker on the side rails issue were illuminating.
Thanks as always, John... I am sure appreciated by many others.
My Ineos is still inbound, but we are creating boxes, slides and secure storage, mostly based on guesswork and a glance at the dealer's demo unit. We even have the stripes, fluoro stickers and fleet number - just no truck to stick them on! We won't grumble... and like you, I think we are on the right track.
You will love it, hope it arrives soon! John
You will be sailing pretty... my wife loves it!!!
@@cannyoutdoors collected the Grenadier today, got home, and showed the boss; it took 5 minutes for Mrs Bear to make two profound statements. The Grenadier is quiet... and then the obvious winner - the Recaro is so comfortable - so overall, it is a great result... Yes, there are a few issues, but it fits the purpose for me.
Thanks John for this. I have been watching and enjoying all your Grenadier videos. Driving a 4x4 in Australia is one of my top 3 bucket list items ☺. However, Unless INEOS release a DACIA Duster priced version, I am sorry to say that your videos will be the closest I will ever get to driving a Grenadier. Please keep making and uploading your videos.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_Rover_Perentie
Thanks so much. We would love to see you in Aus. Ineos may produce a stripped down version that can be built up over time. Seems plenty of interest in that. However I have no real reason to think that is their plan. we can only hope. I really appreciate you watching and taking the time to comment, John
Thanks John, I appreciate your matter-of-fact way of dealing with the negative issues you have come up against. There is another site that I started to watch a while back, but got so peeved of with the presentation.
I have had Land Rovers since 1972 up to the present day, and despite the short-comings in the designs, have no regrets. Also, I am at the age where I need to climb into vehicles and fall out of them, rather than vice versa. I recently was a front seat passenger in a hybrid
Camry. Never once could I get out without having to lean back against the car! But I am only a few weeks till I turn 80.
I am to collect my Grenadier in Toowoomba within the next two or so weeks.
Regards,
Hector Winter, (Kingaroy)
G'day Hector, Thank you for watching and commenting on my video. Great to hear you're getting a new Grenadier. I am sure you will enjoy it and yes completely uncamry like. Nice birthday gift, congratulations on acquiring your octogenarian status. We older blokes have plenty left in us. Cheers John
I love my IG Diesel in the uk, and totally agree with your observations and even though it’s not perfect on storage in the cab area overall it’s a great vehicle to drive and once your system updates are done things will calm down. I can’t get enough of mine and have just done 4k miles in Europe. Overall there’s more positives than negatives imo
Absolutely agree with you. I love mine. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.Cheers John
15 mins in you convinced me that it’s not worth it for Australia- thanks for your honesty based on 9000 Km driving. 👍
I can only say it as I see it. While I am sorry it's not for you, glad that I could help with your decision. Thanks for watching and commenting, hopefully you will still find some of the videos interesting as they are not only about the IG. Cheers, John
@@cannyoutdoors no it was helpful and I do watch your vids.
Some great honest feedback John.
Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to comment, John
Went for a test drive yesterday in Sydney. Just getting rid of the clubman for this beast. I love the old & simple style. Getting into my 4x4 now. The spec I want is $120,000. I do really feel it should have been 30k cheaper.
Well I can only agree, just lucky we are not paying luxury car tax. probably would have ruled it out for me had that been the case. In the end I have forgotten the price but enjoying the vehicle every day!! Hope you get yours soon, John
Thanks for your honest review, for me after having watched a few, it's like death by a thousand paper cuts . Stick with utes for now.
Cheers
Thanks for the comment, can't go far wrong there are some good Utes out there. There ford ranger looks pretty good. John
Thanks again John for another down to earth instalment. Your comments re the tow hitch receiver will save me some last minute stuffing around when I set out up.
Sorry to miss you when we were up your way the other day...pm sent.
Cheers Norm
Thanks Norm, see you in Feb. John
I'll be sticking with my 2023 Prado thanks.
Well, why not it's a great vehicle. Cheers John
The thing about the mobile phone behind the gear knob etc - you don’t need to access it while driving and it’s illegal to anyway so that place is fine. Otherwise, mount it on the windscreen like most people.
Yes, you make a good point ! Got a few things stuck on the windscreen though so might leave it where you suggest . Thanks for the comment, John
Thanks for this update, I'm thinking about getting one, and so far I've seen no problems with this car.
I think you will love it I do. The issues are minor in the overall scheme of things. I enjoy mine more and more every day, its a great vehicle. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment, John
Thanks John and happy 2024 .
I'm set to order mine in late April or early May, going to get the cream colour , think it will look awesome for my business.
Could you keep us updated plz .
Thanks mate .
I appreciate all your time for these videos. Have mine on order here in the States. Thx
Thank you, I am sure you will love it when it arrives. I love the States and have visited many times... lot of friends there! I appreciate your comment, John
Just stumbled across your channel and watched your entire video. I like your presentation style and candidness. I don’t know much about this vehicle but as a long time multiple 4wd owner I’m a bit shocked by the omissions of this manufacturer. I only hope they are priced for what you get. I l currently own a Toyota Hilux N70 2013 SR5 and wouldn’t swap it for the world.
There is no doubting the quality of the Hilux, great to hear you are enjoying it. I certainly hope that the Grenadier builds a similar reputation. Thanks for watching, I appreciate you taking the time to comment, John
My mate just took ownership of a Genadier and I can confirm there are knobs in that there vehicle normally a big one behind the steering wheel.
Good one! Recon there are a few around. John
Been overseas for the last 6 weeks but previously did 6000km outback touring so have given the vehicle a good shake down. Totally agree with all your observations including the sandblasting of the side steps that bodes poorly for future and as commented in the past I am not convinced on the dual battery configuration/logic and lack of manuals. Overall I love my Grenadier too. Ditto your videos. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for taking the time to comment, regardless of the minor issues I absolutely love mine also, John
Very good run down. I suspect the little bits they got wrong stand our more because it does everything else so well. For a first effort from a new manufacturer it’s a pretty impressive effort. I suspect there were a few misses by Toyota on the first FJ too. I bet Ineos will fix a bunch of those simple things in the next iteration but would we put off buying until then?
Mark, I totally agree..and yes everything else is done really well. And no I wouldn't think of delaying for these relatively minor issues. Thanks for commenting, John
Lovely Ep Old fellow and great review, I hope over time you get the little things sorted out, at not much cost to you.
Thanks Craig, I am really happy with the car, just a few minor issues.
John
Thanks for sharing your insights into this vehicle. Lot’s of problems and excuses that shouldn’t be and I don’t want in a vehicle of my own.
Yes I would prefer not to have these issues but not sure if the perfect vehicle exists. Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, John
Great constructive feedback.
I’m 6’2” but don’t have any problems with the footrest.
Comfort is fine, but with rear seats folded for added storage, the backrest is a little too upright for my liking. Again, not a real issue.
Looking into an aftermarket auxiliary battery set up which, as you alluded to, will be used for lights, fridge etc without risking the starter battery.
No regrets in buying a first model. Software update sorted the bings and bongs, but i too suffer from rear parking sensor misinformation to the point of switching them off. Only happens in low range though.
Big Country rear drawer system sorts out my every day kit, leaving plenty of room for bulky items on top.
Shelf fitted to cargo grille to allow solar panel to sit at ceiling height, out of the way.
Waiting for Eezi Awn 3/4 roof rack, as Ineos/Rhino item not due until mid next year; probably from China!
Keep up the good work.
I also have no regrets buying early , enjoying the car every day! Will check out Big Country thanks for that and hopefully Rhino racks are still made in Australia ( I might check that out) Thank for your comment pleased that your enjoying your Grenny, John
I read in the Ineos forum (handy for hacks and tips) that Rhinorack is now US owned.
I was also led to believe that most of the bolt on accessories available through the online Grenadier configurator are produced by Rhino. However, I may be wrong.
But if not, with your revelation of the dreaded “Made in China” label, this doesn’t bode well.
Yes you are correct , however US still Ok in my books, Thanks again, John
Thanks John for the great summary. I followed all of your videos and agree with all you said about camping and the beauty of the outback. I hope the minor issues - especially the software bugs will be solved my the update - please let us know.
Thank you for taking the time to comment, I really appreciate it and will keep you informed. John
John, John. It is great to listen to you.
Hopefully, Ineos Grenadier mark 2. Will take your comments to be better.
Well we can only hope... they are pretty simple issues I would have thought, thanks for watching, John
I’m quite disappointed in the too large a turning radius. Our two track roads aka logging roads of yesteryear, are typically lined with various sizes of trees, some very LARGE. I don’t fancy spending a bunch of time with a chainsaw to do a simple course reversal…
Other than that major issue (to me) I’m quite impressed with this vehicle. And, yes, I can afford to purchase one.
BTW, great real world review!
Hi Cliff, yep you have to live with it and I have (kind of) got used to it and allow for it. Thing is I still love this vehicle and really enjoy driving it. I really appreciate you taking the time to comment, John
John, I purchased by tongue from Allin Towbars in Richmond, Adelaide. I believe they make their own to suit. I have recently ordered a Stone Stomper so I know the measurement between the tow bar holder and the beginning of the upward curve of the togue and is around 50mm, perhaps a bit more if you include the weld. I have turned my tongue upside down as I need a bit more height for VistaRV van as they say 500mm off ground. I thought I could attach a photo but does not look that is possible.
Hi Robert, part of the problem is that the towball sits in a kind of recess with the bumper protruding out each side. So the tongue need to come out far enough for the SS bar to clear the bumper. Worth having a chat (well an email) to SS about having the bar on the back side of the L bracket that goes under the hitch pin as it can foul the DO35 if you have that hitch (I have been in contact and that what they recommend). One other thing to be careful of if you have a traditional hitch that connects to a ball, If you turn the tow ball mount up to get the height (as I have also done) you might not have enough clearance under the spare tyre .I hope that is not too confusing... you can send a pic to cannyoutdoors@gmail.com if you wish. Thanks for the tip on Allin Towers. Cheers, John
Great info really interesting thanks
Thank you. Cheers John
If you’re happy with the Ineos, that’s all that matters. Hope Ineos work with you on some issues. If they can match Toyotas after sales service they have around the country, they might have some competition. Ineos will need tough boots to run with Toyota though. To get Ineos out bush they need dealerships out bush. Top review John, like to see reviews after 100,000, 200,000, 300,000km etc, after some hardcore trips and of Ineos’s after sales service.
Thanks Brian, yes out bush service will be interesting. They won't have the network of the Toyota. I spoke with a new Defender owner who swears by the remote service of Land Rover in Australia. Says he blew up an engine in his previous Discovery, they picked him up and his caravan in the outback, provided a loan car and shipped out and fitted a new engine all without a cent cost to him.Don't hear that good stuff very often, hope Ineos do the same.Cheers John
Great review i have A Grenadier and all the things you don t like i agree with no place for 2 phones .glove box is crap ,But i still love it .I just driven 700miles to the Alps from the uk..My misss purchased a mirror of good old Amazon £7 to think i payed 68k and never got a £7 mirror .How could i have managed with out my lipstick lol .Come on jim Ratcliffe your wife must use a mirror LOL
Glad you are enjoying it. I love mine and all the issues are pretty minor ! Must get a mirror or I'll be in trouble. John
I also have a very good magnet on my center air-vent which holds my phone for sat-nav
You're really good at presenting your candid, informed opinion succinctly.
This video is well edited.
Thanks for making it.
Thans so much. John
Excellent overview. Interior needs immediate improvement. Cup holders are not good at all. Lack of power outlets disappointing. Storage is so easy to provide, so surprised not more. No standard navigation, ridiculous for the price. It’s an outdoor adventure vehicle guys .. remember ! I recently drove it, yes the steering takes some time to get used too, but ok overall. Power for me was fine. I did notice one major issue, the screen, and speed indicator location. Both lack big time. The backup camera is terrible. The screen and its resolution are fairly poor. I too noticed the key issues. One, it’s tooooo BIG. Second, you can barely get the key in much less see where it is. Much to be done to remedy the interior. The one I test drove did have some rattles ? I do love it, but am concerned about these issues for me for long term use. I might delay purchasing for a year or so to see what happens. Regarding the steps, poorly designed. I would order the German steps, far better. Search Grenadier accessories online. To see china on a sticker is super disappointing for me as well. I’d remove the steps gladly on that point as well. Poor quality seen here. This review really has me questioning my rush to get one. JMO .. in closing I already have a love hate relationship with the vehicle. I love the look, dimensions, style, and overall package, but I’m not making a $85K mistake. Resale could be a big deterrent if there was a problem. I’ll give Ineos a shot at fixing issues, but they have to happen super fast. They can do it. Come on Ineos .. make this happen. Enjoy otherwise, it’s an awesome beginning. Too success ! 😉👍
Well said I’m the same , going to wait a year or so before I jump in , or wait for the mk ll to come out
Thank you Laurence .. agreed. Also, I forgot to mention the front seat back adjustment lever is incredibly difficult to find or reach easily. Recaro needs to sort that too .. also, no back seat adjustments at all.
Thanks for that really good comment. Yes built in sat nav essential these days. The reversing camera is simply a dud. However the vehicle is a great thing and I love it. I am prepared to try and work through theses issues and have already started the conversation with Ineos over the side steps😡 so let's see where that goes. Cheers John
@@cannyoutdoors Thx John .. I love it too, but might wait till the second year of production.
A wise man I would think... if you have the time and patience. John
great review by the way
Honest review. Mines done 11000 kms just back from 5500 kms trip around Spain no issues apart from software. Didn’t have time to investigate changes to battery charging so just plugged Engel 40 litre fridge in rear 12v socket had no issues never dropped bellow 70% even when not driven for 48 hours. My door seals also came unstuck, my agent says they know about problem and will replace all, apparently a different part number now.
That's, encouraging to hear especially since Ineos are now removing the option to connect to the smartpass. All my door seal have come loose so they are replacing the lot... not sure how they are going to make them stay there. Can't wait to find out.Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment,John
Thanks appreciate the honest review from your perspective.
Being set up for a rear winch and not for a trailer seems very odd, at least in Australia.
A rear winch I think is when you know you've jumped the shark with your 4x4 mods, time to use that money for something else.
Yes , I agree, rear winch.....pretty extreme for most I would have thought. Thanks for your comments, John
Good review. Appreciate your canid commentary.
Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to comment. John
Nonetheless and notwithstanding the various shortcomings you have rightly outlined , I have one (Trialmaster) and it's a great car for those that want this 4x4 , one that is complimentary to the other brands.
I wouldn't buy anything else , and if people don't like the Grenadier they are free to buy what I'm not interested in ;
And I am one that want this 4x4, Cheers John
It's hard to want anything else, isn't it? ;
Impossible I'd say!!!
Great video John, very informative.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, John
Thanks for the content. I still hold high hopes for this vehicle being a long term reliable rig. Time will tell. Cheers
I am pretty confident it will be, seems to be an engineers dream...just no where for the wife to check the lipstick!!😂, John
@@cannyoutdoors Assuming you mean it has no mirror on the passenger sun visor, that would be the least of my concerns if I did upgrade to the Grenadier from my current Landcruiser 76 :)
Yep it's not real a concern rather an inconvenience.... wonder what a little mirror would add to the cost of a $120k car? You know happy wife... happy life !!!
worth the expense ;) @@cannyoutdoors
Good review. Real stuff. I was curious. Thank you
Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
A comment I have heard frequently, regardless of make, is Never buy the first model. A lot of your comments could fall into that criteria. Another aspect is the low tech approach of this machine from a design perspective by Ineos. Australia and Africa will be the real test of these vehicles over time. Overall a GREAT report. I’d be interested to see what the Ineos response will be. Thank you very much. I’m not put off getting mine.
You won't be dissappointed. If you understand what you are getting you will be pleased. It drives very much like the previous model G wagen. Mechanical transport not electric magic carpet.
If nobody bites the bullet and buys a first release car ....then the project would die on the vine. Thank goodness people like me and others have the balls to take a risk (an educated one, I might add) and get in on the action with this car. In doing so, I saved approx $30k nz on mine vs the current price. That pays for quite a few upgrades and accessories! Fortune favors the brave!
Yes, agree totally... and I do have a little smile every now and then when I think of how like you I saved a few dollars on the current price😁 Cheers John
I am glad you are not put off.... the car is great and I love it. Thanks for you comments I really appreciate them, John
Well I'm glad I pulled out of the waitlist, Sir Jim took too much of the old Defender issues into a new build. Storage, key (that lost me) complex EU electrics.
Good point Max... should have left some of those issues with the old Defender! Cheers John
thanks for sharing your insights.
Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
An excellent thorough review....
Thank you for taking the time to comment, I really appreciate it John
I hope ineos watch your video because they would get the correct feedback they need to fix the gremlins, keep up the good honest reviews 👏👏👏
Thank you for taking the time to comment, I really appreciate it, I hope they do too,John
Thanx 4 U‘r work! ❤
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, John
In Canada we have a chain store called Princess Auto, the typical guy gets lost in that store for hours. My daughter had to be sent in to find me, mum in the car was not happy. Lol. It has everything for dyi er.
Great video!
Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to comment, John
Hey John,
Thanks for your excellent reviews of the IG.
I was pretty close of buying one but looking at these "minor" but costly missing things (which should be absolutely standard considering the price of this car) put me off completely. The foot-well is a definite turn off if you are 6 foot + and have some issues with your knees. Not being able to stretch the left leg on long drives would not be comfortable regardless how comfy the seats are.
Plenty of Storage space is a must have with all the crap we take with us nowadays! A Sat Nav should also be standard and a grab handle on the drivers side is a must have! Try to get in without sidesteps if your not so fit anymore, what a pain!
I'll wait and see whether they will correct some of your mentioned issues otherwise I'll stick with Toyota! Apart for all that I like the "old" landi style look of 4wd and it's capabilities except the fuel and ad-blue consumption:))
Yes it's a great car and yes there are some frustrations with it, but mostly surmountable, finding that keyhole in the dark, yup!
Thank you for your comments...6 foot and over I think you might have a legitimate concern there. for me at 5'9'' it Ok. I am prepared to overlook most of these issues as it is a great and well built car. I reckon the one that bothers me most is the reversing camera as I back out of the drive each day. Just goes to show when we didn't have them we were fine, now we can't live without them!!!
Cheers,John
Yes agree totally! thanks for watching, John
I have had reverse cameras for almost 2 decades now - still don't find it useful and find it too distracting. Just a gadget as far as I am concerned. If you hit something important you will be accused of not using your eyes - camera or not.
Good point, however if they are there they should be of a modern standard. This one is probably like the first one you had.John
If you are talking 0.8mm tolerance, just linish a HR tongue to fit. Thats 0.4mm off each surface. Easy. I wonder how long the starter motor will survive, placed as low as it is and copping all manner of water spray, mud and whatever? Carry a spare? Maybe, seeing as push-starting the automatic is out of the question.
Good point, my recent trip gave it about as much water and mud that is possible...still ok. I guess we will see in the future. Beet keep an eye out for the video in the Flinders Ranges you will see what I mean about the water and mud. John
Thank you for a very good review.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, John
Good honest appraisal. I think it's surprisingly complete considering it's a brand new model developed from scratch and `I'm sure with time the glitches will be ironed out and it will be more complete. I don't have the money for a new vehicle like this but if I did I would be a little concerned by it's weight and long term reliability of the electronic systems.
Thank you, overall it's a great vehicle . Thanks for your comment, John
I would say the parts supply chain across Europe is not limited to just Ineos. Plenty of reports here uk of hundreds of LR products sat waiting parts some owners without their cars 6 months plus during which time insurance and tax expired.
A bit like the old Defender final development has been left to the owner 😜👍🏻🇬🇧
Yes, some tweaking to do but that can be part of the fun.Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
A lot of small parts in new vehicles are manufactured in China. For example: It's been highlighted the Ford Ranger has more than 100 Chinese parts of the thousands that go into a vehicle. This should not be any surprise. Cheers
I am sure you are correct. still the sidesteps were a bit of a surprise. Thanks for watching, John
Interesting video and nice to see the good and bad points . I hope INEOS are listening as what will work in the UK may not work in OZ are South Africa or the USA ! INEOS do deserve to be applauded for what is a scratch built vehicle and have obviously taken on board some of the short comings of there rivals . Hopefully with owners doing videos such as this the brand can take lessons on board and react to the issues owners are finding as no matter how much testing is done the proof of the pudding is when the vehicles get to those that have bought them and are using them.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, you make some good points and yes they have produced an incredible 4x4. Like others I am sure little thing will continue to be improved. John
Good review, John. Agree with lots what you said there. Any comment on the reversing camera at night? I find the number plate lights are just too bright, which makes it even more precarious than during daylight hours! As for the fuel gauge ….. it’s almost hilarious!
All stuff that can be solved with a bit of willing from Ineos 🤞
Yes they are useful, but you know what it's like...give us a calculator and soon we can't add up, give us a GPS and now we can't read a map. Same with reversing cameras... now we can't use mirrors!!!! Thanks for watching, John
@@cannyoutdoors too true, John 😅
John, REF the dual battery issues you should have a conversation with Tim from traxide. I’m sure that his isolators would work very well in the Ineos..
Thanks for that, I certainly will contact him, Cheers John
Loved to have seen what the Great Les Hiddins [ Bush Tucker Man } would have made of it
Yes I agree, he would have had some great comments, John
Great video on your experience with the car.
Crazy bad with the side steps... Hope that will be addressed for future.
Have you had any malfunction, or problem engaging the diff lockers? I have read about others that has. Thx
Thank you for your comment, No problem (testing them) but to be honest I haven't used them in anger as yet. Queensland is hot, dry and mainly flat where I have been. John
Great Video. I plan to buy Grenadier in US for an Alaskan Adventure. Perhaps I should wait for the next revision where they sort out the minor issues before shelling out 80K USD. I am glad that this car is mechanically bullet proof which is the most important aspect to the target audience.
Ahhh, now you are making me really jealous. An adventure in Alaska... sounds fantastic. I have spent a bit of time in the US over the years. Love Colorado and Montana. My advice.....don't wait, enjoy as soon you can!!! I appreciate you taking the time to comment. John
@lordabhikingfisher8087
The truck is not "mechanically bullet proof" so you need to be realistic that we don't have a lot of data on what's breaking, or why, yet. But we do have a lot of stories of the company and dealers being slow to respond to common and sometimes serious design and quality control gremlins.
So that's an argument for not betting your life on an unproven vehicle in an austere environment.
On the other hand, as you mention they will make some changes iteratively in design and manufacturing. It is 100% inevitable that will increase the company's costs and reduce profits, unless either #1 price goes up, or #2 they reduce other costs by "value engineering" means making some stuff cheaper or deleting it altogether. All OEMs do this over time but it seems inevitable for Ineos to realize they have a lot of cost "fat" baked into the launch trucks, and can't afford it at scale. Losing say $100 or $1000 on a truck isn't a big deal for them when you sell 300 of them. It's a massive existential problem when you sell 30k or 300k trucks. Now, consider the probability math they end up having to replace major systems on ALL their trucks under warranty, at scale. That could be crazy expensive and put the company in a pickle in a couple years. Which will tend to encourage yet more value engineering or downgrade of the warranty levels or duration.
So that's an argument for buying ASAP not in a couple years when the trucks or warranty economics may not actually be better, they could be worse.
This could be as good as it gets, launch worts and all.
YMMV
The single, inadequate fuel tank is a deal breaker for me. It should have 140 litres minimum.
No one has a 140 liter anyway.
@@svein-haraldribland8559 maybe not in Luxembourg or wherever you're from but in most overlanding countries the LC 300 and and 70 series are 130 litres with auxilary tanks available to take capacity to 240 litres. Even the Y62 is 140 litres. 80 litres is a bad joke.
@@svein-haraldribland8559Huh? A totally uninformed comment if ever I’ve seen one. My Nissan Patrol Y62 has 140l fuel tank, from the factory. Most Toyota Land Cruisers are about 130l. In the off-roading real world I.e outside of Europe a 90l tank is a compromise.
Annoying, inconvenient yes...a deal breaker ....mmmm maybe not! Cheers John
Great overview John , it seems to be the era of half baked not only with cars but so many things at the moment, pay top dollar get mediocre products. If they were really passionate and committed to their product they would’ve sorted it better.
Thanks again maté great stuff.
I agree. Paper straws wont save the planet. Vehicles and appliances built to last a lifetime will do so much more.
Thanks for you comment, overall though I think they got most of it right, just needed a few NON engineers on the team.If my wife was on the design team at least there would have been a vanity mirror !!!! 😂 BTW I have an engineering background.Thank for commenting, John
Another great video! Keep it up!! Those side steps rusting though!!!
Thank you for taking the time to comment, yes I am taking that up with Ineos, John
Ripper review mate - I haven't got mine yet but hopefully most of the software glitches will be sorted soon.
The towing aspect is a bit sketchy for a vehicle supposedly designed for that purpose , but as a multi national vehicle maybe Oz was a bit further down the list of priorities.
Looking forward to mine from what you have said - but how many more components are Chinese that have not been labelled as such? - I'll be taking those sliders off and replacing them with some stainless copies. I hope Mr. Ratcliffe has seen your video and taken note.
Overall though, I think it's a good first effort - just think how long it took Land Rover to get so many things so terribly wrong.
Great, you will love it. You are absolutely right. Most of the opposition has had years and many iterations to get it right... yet they are also no where near perfect.
Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
Great review after doing a few kms. It's a good reminder that this is the first release, so some of these things will be sorted, but there is a cost for early orders. I was looking at it for towing (not in Australia), but between this, consumption / emissions and support network, it does leave me unsure...
Thanks for watching and commenting. My opinion is that it is seems a tough and very good tow vehicle. That being said I am not towing a big load probably 2000kg max. I have had heavier towing experience over the years mainly with stock trailers so I have a bit of a feel for towing and I certainly feel safe with the load on the back and the diesel has plenty of grunt. Consumption... well not much different from my Ford Ranger. Support network... we will see!!! I think if you choose the Grenadier you would not be unhappy. Cheers John
John, when you are connecting Apple Carplay, please make sure your phone is unlocked when connecting. I have a similar issue with my Mercedes. Appleplay won't connect unless the phone is unlocked when I'm connecting the phone. When the phone is unlocked, Apple Carplay connects quickly without any issues.
I'm looking forward to taking delivery of my Ineoz, which is currently undergoing it's pre-delivery.
Congratulations Pete, you will love . Thanks for that tip re the CarPlay, I will start doing that from now on. Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
If they would offer the diesel in the US, I would likely have one.
Yes , it's a beautiful engine that's for sure. John
The sidestep rust issue is a warranty claim IMO. Either that or repaint it with some decent stone chip paint.
Great video thanks!
Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
Some of those configuration issues could probably be changed with an obdIi dongle such as Carly. A dealer might be able to access and change the configuration as well.
Thanks for that I will talk to them about it, Cheers John
Love the feedback, I'm up to 11,500 in mine and the storage and cables for everything you put in is the issue. Footwell is only an issue if I don't wear the correct shoes. The sat nav is a major issue and what I don't get is in the 'pathfinder mode' it shows there are 13 satellites connected, so it has GPS. Why can't I load my Garmin maps. The GPS on phones is rubbish and disconnects the whole time. I still don't understand the electrics. Was really annoyed I had to pay an auto electrician to connect 'electric brakes' when I paid for the tow pack. What did they think I wanted, to just tow 750kgs? I did a 4x4 course and had to swap my wheel, the hydraulic jack is really hard to use and assumes you'll breakdown on a road, not a lot of distance to connect
Oh and kill both batteries at same time which I've done and I had to trickel charge the main battery overnight, getting the connectors on the battery was so hard. Also racv, Shannon's don't cover you for road side assist. Only alliance. Moved the partician from the back to the front to get stuff at Bunnings and now I can't get it out! Again the gripes are minor. I do love it. Mine has been nearly all on road and I'm getting 12.5-13 l/100. I did manage to get a.tank down to 10.5 when I drove all around Melbourne freeway driving with no hills
Yes , we agree the sat Nav in particular annoys me . Really good point you make about the Pathfinder system (although it's a bit of a bloody mystery to me). Your fuel economy is about what I got with my Ford Ranger so that's good.
Thanks for you comments, John
The price ceiling is rather high for a vehicle that was advertised as following the route of the LR Defender, it seems much more refined but at the same time this is not a vehicle a farmer would be using for his tasks.
As an ex cattle farmer I must say I agree. Although a stripped down version would be Ideal for that purpose and a lot of people who could access the vehicle at a lower cost and build it up over time. Thanks for your comment.
And it will probably be #1.
I think there is a good chance it will. Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
Rust in Australia can't wait to see how they manage a uk winter with salted roads every time temperatures drop
Hi Gary, yes no salt on the road over here and what's more it is dry as a chip at the moment.Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment, John
So the side steps need to be additionally sprayed with something for extra protection when new ?
Yes , It will be interesting to see what the response is from Ineos. Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
From personal experience, as someone who fit the D250se... dont!. Fit a Redarc, etc, and run a fuse box from the secondary battery for a traditional setup, The biggest issue with the 250 is it has a voltage input limitation (VOC) of 23v. Makes panel selection really hard.
Thanks Paul for that advice, certainly something I will take notice of,John
Good to hear feedback from a real owner. Sorry but i think it's a lot of money for not very much when you compare it to other manufacturers and their finish.
Can't disagree , it's a lot of money. I am hoping I get my monies worth out of it.
Thanks for your comment, John
100% with what you've said John other than I have the 13 euro trailer plug set up on my vehicles now and use the spare pins for the van camera. Have sent P.M. I'm using a Mister Hitch MH001HD. Short shank and similar to original but enough space on the shank for my stonestomper bracket. The only other thing was the lack of grab handle for the driver (and rear) as I'm used to having this. But as you said, great overall vehicle for sure.
Does the Mister Hitch MH001HD actually fit into the receiver without modification. Would be great if it did but John's experience with other brands makes me ask the question. thanks
@@daviddevaus436 same as John, I have 5 or so hitches, some slide into the receiver some don't. The Mr Hitch MH001HD I have fits. Fits well shall we say and scrapes the label off doing so. Another hairs width wider and it wouldn't fit.
@@bakepl thanks.
Thanks David for that Info, I will check out Mr Hitches. John
Yes you have to grab the steering wheel to hoist yourself in... once your in its good though😃, Cheers John
Greetings John, as I am looking into this vehicle to buy it really helps to get unbiased observations from an owner. It will be interesting to see if Ineos will make any changes along the way or will prepare cars for the Australian market. As our travels, in general, are identical to yours it would be good to know how you fare with your setup. As in tow ball weight, axle weights, carload, etc. Would also like to know what the spring sag is when loaded as looking at your current videos with not too much in the car the van seems to be riding fairly nose-down.
Let's hope they make a few minor tweaks to Australianise this vehicle. In relation to my van, these AOR Sierras are basically pretty light but they are front heavy and always seem to ride nose down as the tow hitch sits about 650mm for level. It was far worse on the Ford Ranger and I am pretty happy with it on the Grenadier, not much spring sag coming from the van itself.I don't have experience towing a heavy van with it , but my feeling is it makes a very strong and capable tow vehicle. Cheers John
Agreed with the things you have said. I am producing some aftermarket parts that I see as pretty obvious after my short ownership so far. Apparently there are some '24 year changes coming, so will be interesting to see what they have in store. Are your front wings metal?
Hi By wings do you mean the front guards or the bumper? In both cases they are metal. Yes updates in 24 will be interesting.. hopefully some are transferable. Cheers John
@@cannyoutdoors everything forward of the windscreen appears to be plastic composite on mine! No doubt a European directive...
Yes I think even your bumpers are not steel. John
Have you picked up any damages on the lower back passenger door hinges? Paint chipping and "sandblasting"? Mine is quite badly pitted after 18 000kms of which at least have been on non tarred roads.
Hi, Just went and had a look. Very very minor pitting, you have to look very closely to see it. But thanks for your comment, I will be keeping an eye on that from now on . John
I hope INEOS watch this and incorporate your ideas into production.
Thank you for watching and making a comment... let's hope so hey!, John
How fast will it go on the highway?
If you live in Australia, we are restricted to 110kph (except Northern Territory I think). So it goes at least that fast.......perhaps a little faster but I am not say😇.
John
Good honest review and all valid complaints. Shame about the Chinesium side steps. Hats off to you for taking it bush on day 1 definitely not a show pony! Remind me not to buy it off you after 300,000kms! 😂
Ahhh! she will be a good buy if I were to sell at 30O ! I look ofter her very well.Thank you for taking the time to comment, John
Thx John. Very balanced review. I agree that there is no perfect vehicle. And half the fun is making it yours as we will all want something different from it.
Everything you mentioned are user fixable which is nice. I think the bones are there.
Thank you for watching and taking the time to comment. Yes I certainly agree with you. The issues I pointed out are indeed minor and the many great things about this vehicle outweigh those issues (which will mostly be sorted). I really enjoy this car and wouldn't swap it for anything out there. John
Nice looking truck. A better review would be once you hit 160,000 kilometers and list any mechanical issues that might have occurred.
Ok it's a deal, thing is you will have to keep watching 😂. Cheers John
Great report,will be interested in how you wire in the auxillary battery.i have the ordered a Ctek 250 and a lithium battery[330x173x230]Hope it fits!
Yes, good move. It will fit I think but you will have to remove the plastic cover on that side. (many others have) because it's a bit taller than the Ineos battery. I'll try and put something out on the250. Cheers, John
I can fully agree on your findings. Lots of minor things, and mostly easy to change.
And most important, do not order any of those optional accessories directly from INEOS, most of them are not of good quality. Except the floor mats, these are quite OK. I only ordered the carpet floor mats and all other stuff from after market, products from BlackSheep is the way to go for the Grenadier!
I just wish we had a Black Sheep here in Australia. Yes I believe you can get their stuff here but with freight etc. it is just too expensive. John
@@cannyoutdoors Black Sheep will start production and sales directly in Australia soon!
looking forward to that, I love their molle panels. John