"I CAN'T BACK UP!" Lexus No Reverse (Part 1)
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- This 2003 Lexus LS430 has a MAJOR transmission problem at 180k miles.
Owner says he has NO REVERSE or neutral...the car always wants to go FORWARD! Crazy!
Let's diagnose the issue, and see how expensive this repair will be...
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Enjoy!
Ivan
Bought an '99 Camry, with 309,000+ miles, that didn't have torque converter lockup.
After OHMing and listen to the solenoids, I came to the conclusion it needed a converter lockup solenoid. Converter locks up as expected.
Car now has around 430,000 miles with original engine and transmission.
Those are BOMB PROOF
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Like the 2002 Suzuki XL-7 huh Pine Hollow 👍
I can't believe how people bring cars to you to work on looking like pig pens inside? They are filthy! I would be embarrassed to bring my car for someone to work on looking like that inside!!! Anyway love watching your videos Ivan !
My neighbor had a company car and it was a mess inside. His boss forced him to clean it, he had like a bag full of sh1t.
I used to drive a box truck all day and I even kept that clean. I practically lived in it, why do I want stains and trash everywhere? It only had 20k miles when I got it and the seat was brown with dirt and spilled soda, and there was melted candy everywhere. Took a while to clean.
Forward clutch is welded to the front planet hub . The fluid in the car is to clean so it's bin changed .that trans turns fluid black quick .
This channel should have a million subscribers lol.
This is one of my favorite channels
Your definitely on the right path, most trans use a combination of solenoids to switch gears so solenoid 4 may not be strictly for reverse.. check your trans fluid flow chart and compare what would happen if it was on at the wrong time or stuck in between flowing both directions..
But the faulty one does not suppose to change between D (likely 2nd gear) and N/P...
Most guys would just say you need a new trans.
So refreshing to see such thorough professionalism
it would be a fun experiment to try to unstick it without removing it.
maybe overdriving it with 16-24V square wave or applying 16-24 for extended periods to try to heat it up and then try to oscillate the piston.
Very interesting case study. Seeing the scope in action is always cool. Wow, expensive little part.
Just about every Lexus part is expensive. Why I will never own one!
What an awesome study! Cant wait for part 2!!
Was glad you had that moment of realization and figured out the converter wasn't stuck on even with a converter code, I am a trans tech and makes me happy to see brain power win over.
So, if he replaces the indicated solenoid, will the transmission function as it should?
@@dans_Learning_Curve I have fixed quite a few transmissions by changing failed solenoids. Mind you a valve body has passages that are connected via fluid drains which is why forward is being powered by reverse solenoid. Its still a chance one of the clutches has taken dmg, that can not be determined till you either lower the pan for inspection or change the solenoid. But considering the transmission does drive now YES.
@@RichardHeadGaming thanks for the reply.
@@dans_Learning_Curve This is why they say change your fluid. Not that your trans will blow up one day from old fluid, but Down the line, old fluid will cause an issue with a solenoid. On some transmissions fluid can become slightly conductive and change characteristics.
@@RichardHeadGaming I have a Honda Odyssey 08 with a blinking D-3 after driving on hwy for I will said 20 mines at 60 miles the transmission work fine fluid is good you think it could be one of the solenoids not working properly an which one? Thank for your reply.
I would start with just servicing the transmission. I have seen videos of old Lexus cars been fixed with just a service. But interesting problem you have there. Good luck! can’t wait to watch part 2!
Would certainly try that first. Replace the filter and completely replace all of the transmission fluid with full synthetic
The input shaft turns the same direction whether in forward or reverse so even if a torque converter is locked you can have reverse, will slam into reverse or drive but shift remains.
Wouldn’t that cause it stall out? Like shifting with the clutch engaged?
@@blgarage9519 That has been my experience.
Looking forward to part 2. Gut feeling is a valvebody/solenoid issue or even a one way sprag? Even with a sticky torque converter neutral in the valvebody would be neutral.
Im gonna say bad ECU...LOL
My diagnosis for everything. Lol.
Another interesting diag Ivan! Looking forward to the subsequent videos for the fix. Awesome use of the scope to definitively call out solenoid #4. In my experience, a good cleaning of the valve body and solenoids usually addresses shifting issues. Wouldn't be surprised if these are gunked up. Cheers!
I think a apply chart would be useful in this case as well. Tells you what is on or off in every gear.
thx Ivan for WRITING DOWN findings. As the mind wears out by thinking many alternatives it gets easy to lose track of where you are.
The scope pattern tells me the solenoid coil is complete and working. The cars transmission is stuck in the one status. Put the two together and I’d say the solenoid coil works but the piston is jammed probably part way due to debris. Hence the single status of forward only regardless of solenoid control input. Can’t wait to see part two.
The only thing wrong with this car is that the owner wears CROCS.
Should be driving a Volvo or Saab.
The passenger carpet is filthy. Why buy a premium car then trash it like that?
Wow, complicated job that is. But gotta love easy access to the ECU!! Good checks for clicks, didn't know you can do that when the plug is off, but 12v power and ground can help it click? Just wondering, I'm not that knowledgeable in transmission stuff. $250 for solenoid part! Ouch, well you're right, can't guarantee it if it'll fix it. Look forward to part 2!! Awesome video! 👌
I gotta say, judging by the state of that car, i'd say it's suffering from owner neglect. Those transmissions REALLY don't like it if you don't service their fluid regularly and properly withe a new filter.
Applies to about every transmission with a wet clutch since the clutch material ends up in the fluid and thus everywhere.
Solenoids can electrically be activated and energized but Centre piston move and some solenoids have a second sleeve which can distort and stop piston moving so even positive reaction from solenoid on scope doesn’t guarantee internal movement and to add secondary problem if light gauge return spring is incorporated into valve body it can bind up the works as well I have found while activating solenoids manually gives good direction for diagnostics the mechanical side of equation is always helped by oil changing and seeing if solenoid piston is moving full range of motion, I had a solenoid on customers car once that would fail only when cold and sitting for a day once moving and under load car would not shift , but all solenoids tested good, eventually found crack inside coil housing and because coil housing was right up against bottom of oil pan the moisture in bottom would permeate the coil and short the coil so it didn’t have strong enough field to operate the piston correctly, once warmed up oil would mix with moisture and boil out of coil thus allowing coil to operate good enough for it to work again until it went cold if you changed oil problem went away for a few months then start again come to find out dealership common practice was to add moisture emulsion suspension agent into trans to negate the problem until out of warranty problem is the suspension agent would gum up precision pathways when diluted with new oil hence first oil change after emulsion agent is put in bam solenoid failures everywhere mechanical failures.
Transmission of your message is failing due to punctuation solenoid stuck in off position.
Man now I won't be able to sleep 😒 waiting for part 2, thanks Ivan 😂😂😂😅
You need to look up the function of the specific solenoid that's giving an unusual response. It could be that solenoid switches between reverse and fwd, and a pressure switch that senses its position indirectly causes the transmission logic the keep the torque converter engaged.
good job Mate . looking for part2
IVAN, AWESOME diagnoses and approach with scope to see the solenoid movement thanks for sharing brother.
Your the " HOUSE " of car repair, with your eureka moments.
I didn't think the TCC was stuck because engine didn't stall when stopped. I hd a 78 Bonneville with a bad torque converter and vehicle would shudder when coming to a stop. As time went on and condition worsened the engine would stall upon stopping. Great diag. again Ivan.
moving forward...Toyota reliability and luxury never stops! i can faintly hear Scotty yelling at her to back that Lexus up!!
I believe there might be some dirt keeping one of the forward values from closing and keeping pressure on one of the forward clutches
Ps if a valve is locking up converter when you come to a stop it will stall the engine just like a standard transmission would.
Ivan, here we go again! Waiting for Part 2 with baited breath! Thanks for Sharing!
I like that expression you used, but it's " 'bated", as in short for "abated".
@@Graham_Wideman Graham, thanks for your correction. Used expression over my lifetime but I think this is the first time I wrote it. Shakespear's Merchant of Venice, 1605.
These solenoids seem to be regularly sold in sets of 3 (2x shift, 1x lock), making me think there is a common issue in these solenoids. I'd say more research is required, and based on previous videos, I expect Ivan to start part 2 with exactly that.
Was I hallucinating this morning,, I could swear I saw part 2 of I can't back up ,,, it was like 10 minutes and 32 seconds and about 5 minutes later I went looking for it and it's gone...
You know what I hate, they have taken mechanical and bastardized it with electronics. they say electronics last longer than Mechanical, some do, but most don't. I want to shift with a mechanical shifter (transfer case too) not through some solenoids hooked up to electronics. That's the problem with vehicles of today, over engineering, to much bling, bells and whistles and a 27inch screen on the middle of your dash, if you want to turn the heat on, you have to read a 300 pages manual and then maneuver canned messages on a touch screen just to get warm.
Couldn't agree more! I'm an electronic tech, but some things should be left mechanical. It gets way to complicated. I was showing my Dad how to operate a new TV he bought and he ask me "what ever happened to a simple on/off switch." I had to laugh and agree : )
"Bastardized"... that had me cracking up loudly. 👏👏👏👏....very true statement.....
That would be true but I would rather have fuel injection than a carburetor.
Cliff hanger , Thanks for sharing !
My first car was a 1954 Buick, which backed up just fine when it was pointed uphill and put in neutral, and on level ground when in neutral and pushed. One just had to think ahead. It might have helped that I had previously driven an ice cream truck, which one does not dare back up.
Hi Ivan. Yep I agree, the early Lexus cars weren't built very well. They are basically a Toyota with garnish added.
How is it not stalling if the converter is locked? Dammit I was 30sec ahead of you
I have unstuck solenoids and got fuel pumps spinning by applying 24v
always fun trying to discern a mechanical problem from an electrical. if it were me i'd be dropping the pan and taking a peek before i dropped $200.00 also jacking one wheel up and seeing if there's any drag.
My Dodge is 10 years old and runs perfect. The interior is perfect. The exterior is perfect, like new. Only fault I have right now is not credible temperature so the thermostat needs changed. I have bought a new oil intercooler as it has a very small oil leak. I got a one year newer cooler with oil filter tower to replace mine so the tower bypass button doesn't pop off like on mine is supposed to do.
I had the exact same symptoms with my '65 Mustang. A clutch disc in the low clutch broke and locked the clutch engaged.
Ask him if he ran it low on fluid. These transmissions will do that when the clutches burn and fuse together
Good job
There was a recall on the dash disintegration issue
Doubt the issue here but these are common for coolant getting into the trans fluid so worth keeping an eye on if you own one. Looking forward to the conclusion on this one!
Could you recommend a book on better understanding oscilloscopes and what they do. This was challenging to understand. Thank you for the video.
That's super interesting. Well done Ivan. Thanks!
In college I borrowed a friend's car for a date. He warned me that reverse didn't work but I forgot when I parked it. My date and I had to end up pushing the car back to get out of the parking space. That's all your customer needs -- always have someone to help him push it back when needed.
I had these same exact symptoms in a Camry wagon from the early 90s. No idea what the issue was, we sold it like this. We had to get out and push a few times, but never got stuck.
They did a 2005 Lexus on Scotty kilmer they replaced the entire interior under warranty even though it ended over 10 years ago now that's real service
Maybe the speed sensor malfunction code was set because the car is moving in park. The pcm assumes that in park the car should not be moving. If it receives a signal from the speed sensor it assumes the sensor is at fault.
Very cool seeing the pintle hump!
A Toyota that doesn't age well? Scotty Kilmer wouldn't like that! Looks like the Marquis is going to need to run a few more years. Great video!
I'd try to find the solenoid flowchart or whatever its called in service data. Find out what solenoids are on and off for each gear and gear selection state. From there you will have a better idea with whats going on with the solenoid.
Great study and I fell in the same trap thinking TCC solenoid being stuck. I guess that's the reason they pay you the big bucks. 😉😂
"These cars don't age very well" Ha, yes they do! Mine was in perfect condition from the time I bought it until I sold it several months ago (for a profit, no less). The only reason this car didn't age well is because of the person who owned it not taking care of it. Edit: even the original timing belt was in great condition when I changed it (myself, because toyota made it easy).
What are the odds that's a 5 owner beater? Those cars do age very, very well.
At what point do you (meaning anyone) buy a nice car and stop taking care of it. Well I suppose at the point when trying to keep it running like new becomes a money pit.
People that buy hooptys tend to be people that live like hooptys. Regardless of whether this one was treated well or not, it's filthy inside. That particular aspect of ageing is because the owner is a slob.
ATSG manuals explain the function of each solenoid and under which conditions they should be activated. They also have useful troubleshooting guides. I would consult their manual before starting any repair. They may also recommend upgrades for known issues which can be done cheaply while the pan's off for other service.
If you keep the old solenoid you could try feeding AC into it maybe 200Hz and see if you can electrically rattle it back into opening and closing.
Love your detailed forensic approach to car diagnostics. Wow $250 just for just the part is a lot! I wonder if a fluid change alone would fix? Fluids are funny things, the engine on my son's 2003 Honda Accord was running poorly especially at higher speed/RPM's. Took to Autozone, they ran a scan check and recommended engine oil change which sorted the problem, something to do with the operation of the VTEC which I had no idea about. After an oil change it ran fine. This car to me looks like it has had a hard life, to me a beat up interior always suggests neglect in other areas. Look forward to Part 2.
The VTEC Solenoid has a oil pressure switch which it needs to see oil before it can operate the solenoid. Since the engine was probably low in oil it didn't activate the solenoid causing the pcm to not activate vtec at high rpm.
@@amadafaka the engine oil was not low, figured it was just dirty, but as I said fluid and lubricants can adversely affect the workings of engines and transmissions. In this case I don't think the fluid is the root cause of the problem but changing it may help.
When I look in the manual for the trasmission I am seeing the name sl1, sl2, s4, Dsl etc but on the diagnostic tool the names of the pids are different. u140f. Any ideas? I would have used the diagram which shows what is active in reverse. Just like you I could not use the scan tool. I will use your technique of scoping or voltages.
I’ve had pretty good luck changing the fluid and replacing solenoids on them. They get gunked up with old fluid. I guarantee you that fluid looks horrible. Idk why people neglect their transmissions. I really don’t get it. Never will! What I can definitely tell you is that these cars don’t have transmission problems like this if you simply drain and fill your transmission on time.
Lexus have lifetime trans oil lol I change mine
@@awesomusmaximus3766 "Lifetime" technically means design lifetime of the car, which uses to be 6 years or so, but in reality it means just the longest warranty the manufacturer offers. Most of the cars on this channel and in normal peoples garages are many times past that...
On manuals the transmission fluid changes aren't that important since the clutch doesn't swim in the oil... but in torque converter or wet clutch transmissions...
@@annaplojharova1400 I was only referring to automatic transmissions
@@annaplojharova1400 Not according to Lexus Australia they say they never service the trans
Looking forward to part 2
Your possible faults are shown on-screen at 10:07. You may have overlooked a locked-up or blocked valve body. Another question is whether both the erratic operation of both the driver's side electric mirror and the motor that operates the steering wheel adjustment are related to these solenoid functional problems due to a bad ground or power feed that is common to all of these issues. The bad ground is likely near the floor behind the driver's side kick panel and/or or somewhere under the engine/transmission, if this is a rust belt vehicle that has a rust-eaten chassis. Spend a minute or two on a visual inspection of the common grounds.
similiar thing happened to my nissan frontier.. there was a little plastic bushing under the shift handle that engages the transmission broke. it was stuck in drive all the time.
May be a foolish question but when was the last time the tranny fluid changed?
Not a foolish question at all. I love Ivan but he dives straight into electronics way too soon sometimes. That car should have a full transmission service first. Or at least examine the fluid.
Transmission fluid won't fix a broken solenoid or broken solenoid tab with wires unplugged. Or a dirty solenoid until is out.
@@myshots101 Is that what I asked?
@@IBenZik I was answering the other commenter about just doing a flush I guess. I just went through something similar and this is just something that many people bring up and since I found other internal issues with mine I thought I mention it.
Good job sharing
1. Is Park pawl engaged while in park with engine running?.
2. Acts like another solenoid is partially open causing it to move while in neutral.
Could you drop and inspect the valve body while the pan is off? Maybe just go after the solenoid first at the risk of dumping oil again. ugh.
On old non-solenoid automatic transmissions reverse is a separate circuit.
TCC does not lock up 100%, but would probably still kill engine as you said, It should be pwm controlled.
I don't know how a solenoid can ohm ok, and not work, it must be stuck like you said...another No parts required?
it"s gonna be an interesting movie. Looking forward to part 2.
Cars stuck in Drive and the other gears are not being commanded on. You can move the shifter into its positions but the solenoids are not shifting. That’s my guess cause even in park you are still moving and reverse still wants to go forward cars stuck in drive
Your getting quite a collection of cars there Sir...love your property and location, but the bundle reminds me why I reside in the desert. Poor car has issues they just don't hold up well...solonoid problems hmmm...suggest BMW trade.
so if this were me, I'd add a bottle of seafoam trans-tune fluid. Many will bash me for this, but I will say that I've had 3 or 4 cars of the same vintage that had gunked up trans fluid leading to solenoid problems. IF after using the seafoam and driving for 20 miles there's no difference, well replace the solenoid as it is bad based on your diag for sure. But a bottle of seafoam "wonder-juice" may just loosen that solenoid up
My 94 GMC K1500 had exactly the same symptoms. The forward piston had cracked and was therefore applied all the time. I doubt that car has the same problem but something to think about.
That makes for an expensive test - Lexus roulette :-)
The mechanical movement is visible on the current when turning on and on the voltage (on the exponential part, where the voltage returns to zero) when turning off. Both show the same non-movement on the faulty solenoid...
The rest of spikes is just sparking of your makeshift contact.
To me if it is the solenoid, it is not hard stuck, but its "piston" dragging so much it is lagging and does not complete its travel.
And even then, it will be important to look for clues, what caused this. Because it may show some other part failing, which may be easy to replace but completely kill the box if faulty (mainly torn up transmission oil filter, sending mess from worn out clutches into the hydraulic system, not optimal oil maintenance schedule, even the torque converter or its lockup clutch could be faulty sending mess into the system,...)
My assumption as of the beginning is some sort of crossleaks in the valve body, or component apply issues
I know what that’s like. I hate having to order parts I cannot guarantee will fix the problem. I have my fingers crossed for you Ivan $350 going to waste is not easy news. I would have pulled it out and tested it outside of the car.
It's curious how some of those solenoids have two wires connected to the ECU, while others have one. Is it possible the two-wire solenoid valves can be driven with two different polarities, for a total of three positions? So On in one direction, ON in the other direction, and spring return to center?
Gotta love weird cars 😁. I just repaired wiring harness on my personal car due to airbag code(open circuit). Rodent must got into center console and chew some wires. Airbag module wiring harness and some other system. Fun.. not. 🐿. Great video. My favorite channel at all time!
Will you think it will be the filter the transmission filter on it and never been changed I got these vehicle it's been about a year that I have it de La loba no presenta hoy despertar transmisión tvn
Didn't you do a Lexus no-reverse thing a couple years ago? This must be a common problem with the LS. For a few years in the early 2k's TOYOYO/Lexus was doing sealed unit transmissions. I'm definitely on with one of the solenoids being borked.
Love this stuff, i learn so much.
Would pass neglected Transmission Fluid changes cause this solenoid to jam up with deposits? Might it be possible to clean the crud in the solenoid and free its movements once again? Could be a No Parts Required except for new Fluid.
This condition is not weird at all. This is exactly what happens when the forward friction plates get welded to forward steel plates causing the forward clutch to be mechanically applied all the time and unable to release. Hence the vehicle is ALWAYS going to move forward unless it's locked in park or if the transmission in placed in reverse in which time the vehicle will not move because it's trying to go in two different directions at the same time. If the reverse clutches eventually fail, then the vehicle will start moving forward even in reverse. Also, if the TCC solenoid were actually stuck on and the TCC clutch was good, the engine would die as soon as it started, The TCC cannot be applied at a stop while the transmission is in gear. It would be just like having a clutch engaged on a manual transmission with the transmission in gear and at a stop.
Transmission is bad.
Steven has it wright ,retired trans builder ,FMX ,C4 used to do the same thing forward clutch welded to steels cant release .
This poor Lexus looks well beaten and abused (almost no maintenance /care). Who ever said maybe 3 or 4 owners... I think you're right. The seats and dash are cracked and nasty... even the wood steering wheel is all yukky and knawled. Was this a southern car with a lot of sun exposure. LS400's/430's usually age much better than this example. So sad!
Yes Florida car
Good day, pls I have a similar issue a Lexus es 350 2008 when I put the car in reverse the car goes off multiple times , it does mostly every morning when I’m about to head out, I start the car then put in reverse then it goes off I start again put it in reverse it goes off it repeats like 8 times then finally revers. Pls what wrong I need help.
Oddly the Acura equivalent of this car ages perfectly.
Hi Ivan. Not sure if I have the correct shift schedule but it seems that s1 should be off in forward gears. It didn't go off on Pico until a little later at 27:39 where i guess you shifted to maybe drive. So that seems intermittent . At 27:48 it seems you went to drive but the command on s1 stayed on.
The Shift schedule says that s4 should engage only in 5th lock up.could the pcm be commanding s4 on because it thinks your power braking in reverse, then it turns it off because of higher Rpms could be messing with strategy? All speculative and may be due to s1 being on most of the time?
At 28:13 it's in drive and s2 commamded on. So on on off off should be 2ng gear. So could the shift linkage inside the tyranny be faulty or loose? So looking forward to part 2. THE REVEAL!!
"Let's Go Ivan" !!!!
This is Chris fix🤯
2:15 It's not that they age poorly, it's that they have more moving parts that can fail when neglected and abused.
A mask in a single Croc and a box of Dunkin Donuts in a 19 year old abused junker Lexus 😆
Am sure as you replace one selenoid , another will eventually fail
Great job love you videos
I drove a 2002 RX Lexus and I cannot get it to go forward or backwards what will be the problem
Had almost the same on an Acura, different symptom though...this would flair really bad in all gears, the actual linear valves were locked up in the body of the assembly.
Any chance the solenoid controls multiple fluid flows and stuck in a position allowing partial flow in both lines? I’m probably overthinking this :o)
When you did these tests, Was the battery disconnected?
The problem is internal to the transmission. Clutches burnt up to the point it welds itself together.
By the looks of that vehicle it wasn't looked after. I have the same vehicle ls430 2001 335,000 miles original engine and transmission. Original starter and alternator. Only changed the radiator at 260000 miles. Just replace timing belt pulleys waterpump serpentine belt thermostat and spark plugs every 100,000 miles. Just regular maintenance brake pads and fluids.
Further reason why it's not the torque converter solenoid: If it was stuck on, why would the car try to move forward in reverse? The torque converter has no control of which direction the car goes, that's the valve body's job. that alone rules out the torque converter solenoid.
If it was my car I would change fluid and see if it unsticks the solenoid after a time before getting all wrenchy with it.
Wow! That's crazy! I thought this was suppose to be one of Toyotas most reliable cars! Doesn't look like they used good quality interior materials. Those weren't cheap cars new!