Our grandmother joined the Mormon church approximately the same time she and our grandfather rescued my 3 siblings and I afterour mother left.I find this discussion so interesting as I see my return missionary ex mormon husband’s struggles with the church..and his parents and family but not mine !I didn’t have that core Mormon family to please..in fact I NEVER believed the Joseph Smith story because the adults communicating the LDS story appeared painfully misled to me even as a teen that had no reason to put my trust in adults ..I had no pressure to give up who I needed to be or discover ..until I met my husbands family!😂You can imagine how accepting they were.. yet here we are still in love 54 years later❤❤
I honestly got chills when John was explaining the unhealthy co-dependent ego exchange that happens between a child and their parent because that happened to me. Being a daughter of Mexican parents (who didn’t show a lot of love) I got a lot of approval by being involved/ a leader in the catholic church. Then as I got older, unfortunately, I went on to fall for the same thing in the Mormon church - an unhealthy co dependent ego exchange with a boyfriend who was LDS. I so desperately wanted to be with him that I did all the right things, took all the lessons and even got baptized eventually. It took many years of sadness and confusion but I can say now that I have transitioned out of both of those faiths successfully.
Where is God, where is God’s Son Jesus and God’s Holy Spirit?, you all are still living the cult of Mormonism and you don’t have a relationship With the One True God,
I wish I had listened to this during my marriage, I feel like I would have been so much better prepared to communicate. Instead I was afraid to talk to my ex wife and family and just kept my faith crisis secret. Getting a divorce was her answer to me, and now I'm on this new journey to find healing and purpose in life.
I was raised Catholic by parents who were very very devout and “ strict”. My sister left the church to join “ born again” movement when I was sixteen. My mother told me she would have rather my sister died than left the Catholic Church. At the same time my sister and future brother in law were following me and sending people to talk to me and convert me, because if I wasn’t saved I wouldn’t go to heaven. It was a lose lose situation It was so traumatizing for me that it contributed to extremely severe anxiety and depression. I felt conflicted between (a) absolutely destroying my mother if I wanted to be saved and go to heaven, or (b) staying Catholic but risking the loss of going to heaven since I wasn’t “ saved”. I believe it was stole my confidence in decision making in all areas of life. I am now 66 and just now becoming comfortable with my faith choices. Found a great therapist, and have found your podcasts so helpful because there are so many parallels to the pressure I experienced from high stakes religions. Thank you for this work. It’s very healing.
Carah, it really struck me what you said about setting your new boundaries by having a mixed drink at your house. I left so many years ago and use to be so ashamed of things I did that I knew my family wouldn’t approve of (I was the only one out). I hid our beer when my family would come over in case they looked in the fridge. I bought a modest swimsuit for family events or just stayed covered. It still is hard for me but I recently stopped hiding my “sins” because there isn’t anything wrong with me! I wore a 2 piece recently to a party at my parents house and my husband and his brother had a beer at a party at our house. Thank you for this series!
I've never been religious but I still relate to this, especially when you said crickets effect. I became disabled due to a GENETIC illness diagnosed by three specialists 8 years ago. My family don't mention it, it's like the elephant in the room. It's so weird and when I am around them I feel like there's something wrong with me. But then I have always felt like that, I think I'm the family scapegoat. My sister has been sick for weeks and they don't know what's wrong with her so it will be interesting to see how she will be treated if she has the same condition.
I think this might be my favorite episode of yours and I'm only 36 minutes in. I am a former Christian and I can totally relate to this on every level. Wish my parents could listen to this episode but they probably never will. They completely stripped me of any identity in my childhood. My identity was their identity, and it took me until my late 30s early 40s to figure out WHO I AM and not who they wanted me to be. I have vowed to be the parent to my kids that they never were.
My dad made me come out to him and explain why I chose to not believe anymore. I feel like our relationship has taken a major hit because of it. I wish I could have had the crickets effect and been able to come out when I was ready. The same thing happened to my sister too. He made her come out before she was ready and their relationship has suffered in the same way.
Great insights. When I left, my guns were blazing because I assumed they would want to know what I discovered. Didn't go well. I later adjusted to what Margi suggests. Much better.
I was incredibly lucky to have my immediate family fall away with me. It made everything easier to let others lead the way, and now that I need to face my extended family I appreciate the resources to stand on my own against the difficult conversations ahead.
Most of my immediate family lost their faith before I did. But my dad and stepmom are still TBMs and the first part of this episode where John talked about wanting to make our parents proud and not disappoint them...really hit home for me. I know my dad is disappointed, even though he still loves me and talks to me, I know it makes him sad. But the worst part is that he feels that way because of what a false religion has told him to believe. I hope there will come a day when he asks me why I left so I can share my perspective
I'm part of your never Mormon audience...but I was raised in an INCREDIBLY Catholic family. My cousin had 18 kids that she home schooled. I went to Catholic schools for 10 years. It is such a similar experience that Mormon Stories was what happened to help me through my own faith crisis. John, Margi, Carah - the whole staff...I have so much love for you guys because without realizing it you took my hand and walked me through my own dark night of the soul.
My JW mother didn’t talk to me after I stopped attending JW meetings 2 years ago. In March 2021 she got a cancer diagnosis. On March 31 She called and asked me to attend JW meetings (they are doing them on zoom) I didn’t attend and she refused to speak to me after April 6th. I texted and called many times but she wouldn’t talk to me. She believed since I wasn’t being an active JW she couldn’t associate with me even in her last days. She thought God would see it was her being disloyal to Him. Because she truly believed that JW organization was the one true religion and if I turned my back on it then I was turning my back on God. She died on May 18, 2021 at 59 years old.
I am SO SORRY that you had to go through that. Also very sorry for your loss. Losing a mom is something I can absolutely relate with! She was a believing Mormon when she passed away but she didn’t know that I had been transitioning out. You had the guts to stand up and say “no more” but it sounds like you were being shunned for leaving the religion. I don’t know a lot about JW. I absolutely don’t feel like our loving God would want us to treat our family members that way, no matter what they believe. I am sad that your mom passed away before you two really got any closure in the situation and making amends. I believe in the afterlife that many people that didn’t understand here on earth will understand everything after and I’m sure she loves you so much and is seeing things much differently now! God bless you 🙏
I'm so sorry, that's tough. I'm there with you. My mother doesn't speak to me because I've left mormonism. So sad that people think this is serving Christ, Jesus, their God. I wish you happiness. I'm happy you got out.
Margi, you are simply awesome! I have learned so much from you…many super clear perspectives on cleansing our selves and realizing those healthy vs toxic relationships that each of us can embrace or let go of in order to reach a higher level of mental and physical health. You have a beautiful soul! ❣️
I'm so enjoying these episodes with Margi. She is so good at articulating her thoughts and I can feel everything she's saying. The 3 of you make wonderful-magic together ❤ These episodes are really changing my life, thank you!
I'm realizing that my parents loved me unconditionally, which was a lifeline, but I got the conditional approval, never quite good enough message anyway, from growing up active in the church. I am just realizing how many Mormon parents' love for their children was highly conditional. How sad. I admire you all for surviving that. How much healing it takes for you to move beyond that.
I appreciate all of you so much. 1:05:30 is exactly what I wanted to happen. It is not what happened. But it is so healing to watch videos like this one. It is so very healing. Thank you all. ❤
46-50 minutes You have just described defining features of the changing landscape of my marriage from 2020-2024. I’m a few stages shy of where you landed at “I got Me,” but for sure it’s trajectory. Thank you, all of you, for helping ms to coalesce the nebulous language I need to navigate & negotiate the resolution of all the questions opened up by the pandemic mandated respite from compulsory church attendance. The first has been: “Will I go back,” to which the answer must be (after 926 drafts gradually paring down from a million words to 4) “No, I Will Not.” There are more questions to come, but at last we’ve got that far. You’ve been a great help to me in this chrysalis time. Thank you all three times.
I lost my son too Mormon ism.... he became a bishop and Stk president.... then he told me. his mother ..he wanted no more to do with me... ( I'm a Catholic) but I always respect ed his religion.. that was one hurt I have trouble with....
@estellagutierrez4615 I was raised catholic too, but from what I understand they moman are not even taught to shun non members? So I think your son might just be a rotten apple.
I grew up Mormon and I left the church in 1979 (4 years after my mission) after both the Bishop and Stake President gave my (then) wife a temple recommend and then I subsequently learned from her father that he found her naked in the shower with a co-worker just 3 weeks before getting married in the temple. These men are not "inspired" of God as I was taught growing up. Since leaving the church, I have had to deal with parents, siblings, friends, aunts, uncles and cousins (57 first cousins, a real Mormon family, eh?) for 42 years with their "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Both my parents went to their graves having never stopped saying, "We really hope you'll come back to the church so you don't ruin our eternal family." These "believers" are so deeply brainwashed that they have no angst over offending others but if you criticize them, THEY are deeply offended. Mark Twain was right when he wrote, ""It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled." The Mormon church is a monolithic scam and I am embarrassed to have ever been associated with those people. Thanks, Mormon Stories and John for gently but firmly exposing the fraud that is the Mormon church. Margi, you are amazing and strong. Thank you for telling your story.
I'm grateful you're rehashing this stuff. I just left this last year. I ccidently told my mom on her birthday. I still don't know how to talk with her. -I started tearing up when you started talking about the pressure put on kids to manage their parents emotions and it's the first time it actually fully connected for me, I've been doing that my whole life. My mom was very physically and verbally abusive growing up, I remember being 3 yo and managing her emotions. Spending my whole life avoiding things so I wouldn't have to deal with other people's emotions. So... that's something I'll need to unpack with my therapist. -I was just talking with my SO about how I'm having a hard time deconstructing, it's like I'm looking at a white canvas and when I listen to other exmos deconstructing, it's like something shows up on the canvas I couldn't see before, like I can't think for myself. My SO pointed out I spent my whole life being told what to think, being brainwashed to not think for myself and while I'm trying to deconstruct this, it's a struggle I'm facing. - talking about growing up on conditional love, it just clicked the reason I'm so withdrawn with my friends is because I'm expecting it to be conditional friendship. That if I don't have something to give or I mess up, they don't want anything to do with me anymore.
I just want to say, even though I appear to be 11 months late, that I'm glad you guys made this. I happened to watch it the day after I wrote up a personal reflection essay about my faith transition and ended up sending it to my mom. It was very reassuring, in light of that scary first step, to know that much if not all of the advice you gave was stuff I was able to figure out and incorporate on my own, and the way you described "feeling like the Nephi" was so validating. I was definitely one of those people growing up. I felt like I was my parents' golden child, I never acted out in any big ways, and I "yes-and"-ed everything they told me as a kid. Differentiation is such a scary thing when the religion running your family and your personal life has encouraged you to all believe the same things. Today (about three days after sending it), my mom sent a message to me telling me she loved me, that it did indeed sadden her to hear, and that she would like to talk more. I'm nervous, but I feel a lot less icky now that the first step has been taken, and I am going to do my best to be conscientious in my discussion with her, as you guys modeled. I'm a newcomer to the ex-Mormon/post-Mormon community, but that just makes me all the more glad for all the people like yourselves who have worked so hard to make such a community for me to find and feel comfortable in, years before I ever even knew I would need it. From the bottom of my heart, thank you!
nevermo here: I have to add that this can also apply to any situation where you express an opinion that is different from the mainstream e.g around bodily autonomy, or disagreement with government policies. I lost a friend and almost a family member just for having a different opinion. It was sad and really made me assess those relationships and how conditional they were/are
''who you want in your surroundings'' I found in the church that many members had a feeling that they owned you and they could invade your space or home or life uninvited. This leads members when they stop going to church to say to members ''leave me alone!''
The topic of conditional love applies to so many people, even non-mormons. The pressure to do or become what your parents want, is strong, and yes, growing up we often interpret this as “ this is how to be loved by mom or dad”. Even if it isn’t true, that’s what we internalize. I sure did and it had nothing to do with religion, but becoming a successful classical musician. After 5 decades, I am still grappling with this and trying to get to know myself more to understand what field of work I should be doing. When parents have been gone for over two decades, it’s hard because you can’t have anymore talks with them, so you have to try to figure it all out on your own. I look forward to hearing more of this podcast. Thank you for doing it.
I left the Catholic Church and have found a home in the Lutheran (ELCA) Church. I am reviled for leaving by my sister more so than my parents! I did receive the guilt trips from my parents at first. I thanked them for teaching me about Jesus. I can be a bad Catholic or a Good Lutheran. Your choice. I’ve chosen mine.
Yeah exactly! I'm lucky I can listen to whatever I want at work because I've been binge listening for the last few months. Some of them are really long and sometimes take me multiple days to finish. But I really enjoy them. I haven't gone to therapy since my faith crisis but Mormon Stories has really been a stand in for that. This is probably the most relatable episode to me and I'm not even an hour in yet 😅
Personal struggles and seaking help Hello i am a 26 years old male and I am having so many struggles in my own beliefs of the church. I am finding myself to have more hopeful agnostic views personally. With this post I hope to establish connections and I am also I am looking for advise with trying to find ways to talk to my wife (who is still a believing member) of a year and am trying to talk with her about it and explaining the struggles that I have with the curch most of it being with regards to personal mental health struggles and trying to work with that as well as some of the teachings that the church has come out with and my own personal views and discussions that I have had with my wife. I am also trying to grapple with how I would talk with my parents about this and my personal struggles as well. The only member of my immediate family that I feel comfortable talking through this would be my younger sister who has her own struggles that she has been going through as well. I have been having these views for close to a hear now and have recently started looking and listening to “anti church” content for the first time ever.
I am super active in the church. I still watch you just because I am open mind. I wish you could do a debate between active members and leaders. Like, smart debates about important issues! Like BYU, Honor code, gays, racism in the church history, the 55 wives that Brigham and Joseph had, the women that Joseph sealed in the temple which were already married. I don’t know. I am super open to everything! I go to church because of Christ and God! Not because of men!
Conditional love is when you do what someone else wants than they shower you with affection and love. Unconditional love is no matter what you do, they still love you and care for you. That doesn’t mean they can’t be safe, if it’s unsafe leave, but they can still shower you with love and affection!
I was never a Mormon. I was/I’m a Christian (still unclear). And when I walked away, it had nothing to do with my religious teachings, it was more so the lack of compassion amongst church people and the hypocrisy on many things. This coaching can be applied to about any conversations you ever want to have. I was just a kid when this happened. Maybe just starting high school. I tried many churches, to find that feeling of unconditional love or compassion. It’s all mostly surface. Maybe I was looking for too much , maybe I was looking in the wrong place. Whatever it was, 15 or 16 year old me was out. I never communicated it though. I just avoided conversations about going to church and activities. I literally ran away in the opposite direction many times when my baptismal mentors approached me to talk about attendance. Anywho, all that to say, avoid uncomfortable topics while in transition. You don’t have to talk to everyone. Even “authority figures”. If these people have no other relationship with you other than church related, you don’t owe them anything. I didn’t know why I ran away from explanations, but thank the gods I did. Probably saved me a lot of trauma of people trying to save me or intentionally hurting me socially because I left. I was super polite. But I did do things not considered proper n the church community. from how I dressed to hair styles. I just let people come to me if they felt close enough to me, and I only engaged if I felt close and comfortable. Seriously, I wish I had the same discernment as I did back then. My mother was a hard one to avoid talking to about my faith transition, I depended on my parents for my survival, so I wasn’t gonna risk that. But now they are just happy that I somewhat believe in a God. It’s still not clear to them and I don’t mind that. I’m not getting into it, I think they understand by now. When they do religious stuff with me, I just go along to get along. It’s even comical. Tip for kids still living at home: go on your journey alone. Only trust people who you know are either on the same path or would never ever ever put any belief above you. That means that as far as your parents, siblings etc go, you are whatever they want you to be until it is safe for you to disclose. It’s sad, but it’s not forever. Prioritize your physical and mental safety. They go hand in had. You family and friends knowing is not crucial. Enjoy that you know who you are. Remind yourself that the journey is yours alone. If it gets lonely, safely find people who think the same way you do. Start creating your own free community. #youarenotalone be safe.
I am relating on many levels , but I grew up in religion that believes we will know each other in heaven but will not have that traditional family structure .I believe , and yes my construct is that , I will know my children and parents but we will be all be spirits together existing in transcendent love . That's where I feel the Morman belief in afterlife is very difficult to overcome .
Hi, I observed things while on a mission that bothered me! When I returned, I researched Joseph Smith, Mormonism and Mormonism looking for answers. I abandoned Mormonism not saying a word to anyone. My mother asked me a few months later if I was ok, but she didn't want to know what was bothering me! I told her Joseph Smith lied about the whole thing! She walked away, but later wanted to know more! I shared with her what I found and we both laughed our asses off! Sometimes its best to let others inquire; we don't need to initiate the discussion! If someone asks, they are obligated to hear us out, and if they walk we can ask if they are truly interested or was this just small talk? The peer pressure being on them: they'll either listen to all you have to say or walk. A win:win for you no matter what happens!
2:25:38 This is my situation EXACTLY! I think my family knows I’ve left but we have never had the conversation. We don’t live near each other at all so they don’t see. If they asked I would tell the truth but my dad is in is mid ‘80s and has heart and health issues so I just don’t want to spring it up on him knowing it would completely devastate him. At his age I’m fine with him just thinking I’m a member but just inactive. I have no idea what my family thinks of me in regards to religion. Like you said earlier in the podcast, usually it’s just not talked about or brought up AT ALL! I’m totally fine with that. I don’t really want to have that conversation anyway.
Where do Mormons fall regarding basically shunning members who leave vs practicing unconditional love? This seems like it should be paramount for everyone! (neverMo here).
It's honestly up to the individual. The leaders of the church send mixed messages. They say to still be loving to people who leave, but don't condone their choices that don't align with the church. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" was a common statement I heard at church. Some people's family members will shun, harass, or even disown them. But many, like my Dad and Stepmom, still love their children even if they choose not to be a part of the church. There is almost always an underlying feeling of sadness and disappointment though, because of the doctrine of eternal families
Just because you leave the Mormon Church DOES NOT mean you've lost your faith, it just means you've lost faith in their prophets and sears, that don't have Revelations!!! I don't know of a revelation they've had since Joseph Smith and that goes, since Joseph Smith started lying about polygamy!!! No Revelations no profits but the good people still believe in Jesus Christ and that's all that's necessary!! If you don't believe me read the Bible!!!??
Most of our relationships are based on conditional love. Why are conditional love based relationships negative or not real? At the risk of sounding a bit cynical, I would even say: NEWSFLASH! Most human beings are not interested in YOU and would hate YOU... if you would only let them see who you really are. They are interested in a persona which you can play and which fits into their worldviews. This is in and outside or religions. I would thus go one step further (of course agreeing with John's point of view too!) and say "accept that most relationships are based on people pretending and that they are based on conditional love". And that it's ... I wouldn't necessary say a good thing, but a 'default' status. Rare is the relationship which works in its core otherwise. And ... the thing is, if people pretend and set up personas in order to be able to coexist with you... it IS effort. It is good.
Losing Faith Or Gaining Faith Facing the truth of the diagnosis Diagnosing the Fruits Where are the Fruits? What are the Fruits? Thorns & Thistles Or Grapes & Figs?
It sound like you're talking about worshipping one's self, which is like man. Self sovereignty or self rule will not address loneliness, ones limitation, insecurity or my failures. This is why I believe in God, not religion, because it satisfies my need for unconditional love that I nor man can prove. I too have expectations for myself, but all God ask of me is to have faith in him. And when I fail, God's unconditional love picks me up when I can't.
1.06 that is a lie. I grew up Mormon with out a testimony. I went inactive when I turned 19 yrs old and came back to church when I was 22z I know this is His church with all in me. When people had come with those doubts , I am curious to know their story and see how can I help them. So you can not generalize that no one cares.
Yea start bringing them up, be a threat unto them. All their books are false & that mormon one is their bible & mis use the truth of the BIBLE to make those books like their true. And Joseph with his 37? 39? wives. Smith has conned the millions over with his lies.. & sadly people still fall for it. You The true Jesus of the Bible was is still a woman's lib liberator.
Maybe if people could speak for themselves and John doesn’t ALWAYS have to clarify what everyone just said your podcast length would be more to the time you want. Too much reiteration. Don’t get me wrong…I’ve enjoy these podcasts!
Are we talking about the same Latter Day Saints church? Because I understand exaltation very different on what you guys think the church teaches it. I think people were teaching wrong for so many years. The 3 grades of glory is the beautiful of His plan. He wants us to be happy and if we
If we can not be happy following His rules in here, we won’t be happy around Him in the celestial kingdom following not just the same rules but more! We came to conquer weakness, like Jesus did. We might never succeed but we can keep trying until the end. We can still find happiness here. A friend of mine told me “‘y goal is to make it to the middle, I feel being with God and all his apostles will be kind of boring” I don’t agree but it made so much sense. The Olán of salvation is for the individual. Regardless of what my kids want to do, I know where I want to be. I hope they want to be there back with Him too. If they don’t, that is okay. Because wherever they are they will be happy ♥️
Our grandmother joined the Mormon church approximately the same time she and our grandfather rescued my 3 siblings and I afterour mother left.I find this discussion so interesting as I see my return missionary ex mormon husband’s struggles with the church..and his parents and family but not mine !I didn’t have that core Mormon family to please..in fact I NEVER believed the Joseph Smith story because the adults communicating the LDS story appeared painfully misled to me even as a teen that had no reason to put my trust in adults ..I had no pressure to give up who I needed to be or discover ..until I met my husbands family!😂You can imagine how accepting they were.. yet here we are still in love 54 years later❤❤
Margi needs her own podcast. She’s amazing
Hi, ex-JW here. Very interested in all of this. Certainly need support. Thanks for the resources!
buy a copy of Jeremy Runnels CES letter
@@robbrobb659 Thank you, will check into it!
JW ostracized is very similar to Mormons!
I appreciate how careful and compassionate you all are when presenting information.
I honestly got chills when John was explaining the unhealthy co-dependent ego exchange that happens between a child and their parent because that happened to me. Being a daughter of Mexican parents (who didn’t show a lot of love) I got a lot of approval by being involved/ a leader in the catholic church. Then as I got older, unfortunately, I went on to fall for the same thing in the Mormon church - an unhealthy co dependent ego exchange with a boyfriend who was LDS. I so desperately wanted to be with him that I did all the right things, took all the lessons and even got baptized eventually. It took many years of sadness and confusion but I can say now that I have transitioned out of both of those faiths successfully.
Where is God, where is God’s Son Jesus and God’s Holy Spirit?, you all are still living the cult of Mormonism and you don’t have a relationship
With the One True God,
I wish I had listened to this during my marriage, I feel like I would have been so much better prepared to communicate. Instead I was afraid to talk to my ex wife and family and just kept my faith crisis secret. Getting a divorce was her answer to me, and now I'm on this new journey to find healing and purpose in life.
I was raised Catholic by parents who were very very devout and “ strict”. My sister left the church to join “ born again” movement when I was sixteen. My mother told me she would have rather my sister died than left the Catholic Church. At the same time my sister and future brother in law were following me and sending people to talk to me and convert me, because if I wasn’t saved I wouldn’t go to heaven. It was a lose lose situation It was so traumatizing for me that it contributed to extremely severe anxiety and depression. I felt conflicted between (a) absolutely destroying my mother if I wanted to be saved and go to heaven, or (b) staying Catholic but risking the loss of going to heaven since I wasn’t “ saved”.
I believe it was stole my confidence in decision making in all areas of life. I am now 66 and just now becoming comfortable with my faith choices. Found a great therapist, and have found your podcasts so helpful because there are so many parallels to the pressure I experienced from high stakes religions. Thank you for this work. It’s very healing.
Carah, it really struck me what you said about setting your new boundaries by having a mixed drink at your house. I left so many years ago and use to be so ashamed of things I did that I knew my family wouldn’t approve of (I was the only one out). I hid our beer when my family would come over in case they looked in the fridge. I bought a modest swimsuit for family events or just stayed covered. It still is hard for me but I recently stopped hiding my “sins” because there isn’t anything wrong with me! I wore a 2 piece recently to a party at my parents house and my husband and his brother had a beer at a party at our house. Thank you for this series!
🙌🏽👏🏽👏🏽cheers to y’all for being your authentic new selves!!!
I feel like I have met Cara's mother now and I have deemed her a worthy opponent. She could hold her own with an Irish Catholic mother and grandma
This is incredibly helpful. Not just for communicating your losing your faith but also for communicating difference in core beliefs to your love ones.
Raised Catholic. I’ve been watching Mormon stories for years. I now call myself an atheist, but this show always reminds me that this is a journey. ❤
I’ve created a new category of spirituality. I’m an “I don’t knowist”
I've never been religious but I still relate to this, especially when you said crickets effect. I became disabled due to a GENETIC illness diagnosed by three specialists 8 years ago. My family don't mention it, it's like the elephant in the room. It's so weird and when I am around them I feel like there's something wrong with me. But then I have always felt like that, I think I'm the family scapegoat. My sister has been sick for weeks and they don't know what's wrong with her so it will be interesting to see how she will be treated if she has the same condition.
Right? And it's not about losing faith.It's about recalculating and gaining more k owledge/faith
I think this might be my favorite episode of yours and I'm only 36 minutes in. I am a former Christian and I can totally relate to this on every level. Wish my parents could listen to this episode but they probably never will. They completely stripped me of any identity in my childhood. My identity was their identity, and it took me until my late 30s early 40s to figure out WHO I AM and not who they wanted me to be. I have vowed to be the parent to my kids that they never were.
My dad made me come out to him and explain why I chose to not believe anymore. I feel like our relationship has taken a major hit because of it. I wish I could have had the crickets effect and been able to come out when I was ready. The same thing happened to my sister too. He made her come out before she was ready and their relationship has suffered in the same way.
Great insights. When I left, my guns were blazing because I assumed they would want to know what I discovered. Didn't go well. I later adjusted to what Margi suggests. Much better.
I wish I would have known this five years ago, maybe my my journey would have looked a lot different. Thanks for sharing:)
I was incredibly lucky to have my immediate family fall away with me. It made everything easier to let others lead the way, and now that I need to face my extended family I appreciate the resources to stand on my own against the difficult conversations ahead.
Most of my immediate family lost their faith before I did. But my dad and stepmom are still TBMs and the first part of this episode where John talked about wanting to make our parents proud and not disappoint them...really hit home for me. I know my dad is disappointed, even though he still loves me and talks to me, I know it makes him sad. But the worst part is that he feels that way because of what a false religion has told him to believe. I hope there will come a day when he asks me why I left so I can share my perspective
I'm part of your never Mormon audience...but I was raised in an INCREDIBLY Catholic family. My cousin had 18 kids that she home schooled. I went to Catholic schools for 10 years. It is such a similar experience that Mormon Stories was what happened to help me through my own faith crisis. John, Margi, Carah - the whole staff...I have so much love for you guys because without realizing it you took my hand and walked me through my own dark night of the soul.
Ex-Catholic here. I had the same experience. I know what you went thru!!
My JW mother didn’t talk to me after I stopped attending JW meetings 2 years ago. In March 2021 she got a cancer diagnosis. On March 31 She called and asked me to attend JW meetings (they are doing them on zoom) I didn’t attend and she refused to speak to me after April 6th. I texted and called many times but she wouldn’t talk to me. She believed since I wasn’t being an active JW she couldn’t associate with me even in her last days. She thought God would see it was her being disloyal to Him. Because she truly believed that JW organization was the one true religion and if I turned my back on it then I was turning my back on God. She died on May 18, 2021 at 59 years old.
I am SO SORRY that you had to go through that. Also very sorry for your loss. Losing a mom is something I can absolutely relate with! She was a believing Mormon when she passed away but she didn’t know that I had been transitioning out. You had the guts to stand up and say “no more” but it sounds like you were being shunned for leaving the religion. I don’t know a lot about JW. I absolutely don’t feel like our loving God would want us to treat our family members that way, no matter what they believe. I am sad that your mom passed away before you two really got any closure in the situation and making amends. I believe in the afterlife that many people that didn’t understand here on earth will understand everything after and I’m sure she loves you so much and is seeing things much differently now! God bless you 🙏
@@healthhollow7218 Thank you, I appreciate your caring thoughts!
I'm so sorry, that's tough. I'm there with you. My mother doesn't speak to me because I've left mormonism. So sad that people think this is serving Christ, Jesus, their God. I wish you happiness. I'm happy you got out.
That had to be very painful for you. It's so sad what religion can do to a person's mind.
That should never have to happen to anyone. That's absolutely heartbreaking.
Margi, you are simply awesome! I have learned so much from you…many super clear perspectives on cleansing our selves and realizing those healthy vs toxic relationships that each of us can embrace or let go of in order to reach a higher level of mental and physical health. You have a beautiful soul! ❣️
I'm so enjoying these episodes with Margi. She is so good at articulating her thoughts and I can feel everything she's saying. The 3 of you make wonderful-magic together ❤
These episodes are really changing my life, thank you!
I'm realizing that my parents loved me unconditionally, which was a lifeline, but I got the conditional approval, never quite good enough message anyway, from growing up active in the church. I am just realizing how many Mormon parents' love for their children was highly conditional. How sad. I admire you all for surviving that. How much healing it takes for you to move beyond that.
I appreciate all of you so much. 1:05:30 is exactly what I wanted to happen. It is not what happened. But it is so healing to watch videos like this one. It is so very healing. Thank you all. ❤
46-50 minutes
You have just described defining features of the changing landscape of my marriage from 2020-2024. I’m a few stages shy of where you landed at “I got Me,” but for sure it’s trajectory.
Thank you, all of you, for helping ms to coalesce the nebulous language I need to navigate & negotiate the resolution of all the questions opened up by the pandemic mandated respite from compulsory church attendance.
The first has been: “Will I go back,” to which the answer must be (after 926 drafts gradually paring down from a million words to 4) “No, I Will Not.” There are more questions to come, but at last we’ve got that far.
You’ve been a great help to me in this chrysalis time. Thank you all three times.
I lost my son too Mormon ism.... he became a bishop and Stk president.... then he told me.
his mother ..he wanted no more to do with me... ( I'm a Catholic) but I always respect ed his religion..
that was one hurt I have trouble with....
@estellagutierrez4615 I was raised catholic too, but from what I understand they moman are not even taught to shun non members? So I think your son might just be a rotten apple.
I grew up Mormon and I left the church in 1979 (4 years after my mission) after both the Bishop and Stake President gave my (then) wife a temple recommend and then I subsequently learned from her father that he found her naked in the shower with a co-worker just 3 weeks before getting married in the temple. These men are not "inspired" of God as I was taught growing up. Since leaving the church, I have had to deal with parents, siblings, friends, aunts, uncles and cousins (57 first cousins, a real Mormon family, eh?) for 42 years with their "if you're not with us, you're against us" attitude. Both my parents went to their graves having never stopped saying, "We really hope you'll come back to the church so you don't ruin our eternal family." These "believers" are so deeply brainwashed that they have no angst over offending others but if you criticize them, THEY are deeply offended. Mark Twain was right when he wrote, ""It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled." The Mormon church is a monolithic scam and I am embarrassed to have ever been associated with those people. Thanks, Mormon Stories and John for gently but firmly exposing the fraud that is the Mormon church. Margi, you are amazing and strong. Thank you for telling your story.
You sir are very much not smart are you? You get but hurt and the church is the one with the problem.
@@dougbrown8331 I wish I was smart enough to decipher this comment or its point. I’m baffled.
I'm grateful you're rehashing this stuff. I just left this last year. I ccidently told my mom on her birthday. I still don't know how to talk with her.
-I started tearing up when you started talking about the pressure put on kids to manage their parents emotions and it's the first time it actually fully connected for me, I've been doing that my whole life. My mom was very physically and verbally abusive growing up, I remember being 3 yo and managing her emotions. Spending my whole life avoiding things so I wouldn't have to deal with other people's emotions. So... that's something I'll need to unpack with my therapist.
-I was just talking with my SO about how I'm having a hard time deconstructing, it's like I'm looking at a white canvas and when I listen to other exmos deconstructing, it's like something shows up on the canvas I couldn't see before, like I can't think for myself. My SO pointed out I spent my whole life being told what to think, being brainwashed to not think for myself and while I'm trying to deconstruct this, it's a struggle I'm facing.
- talking about growing up on conditional love, it just clicked the reason I'm so withdrawn with my friends is because I'm expecting it to be conditional friendship. That if I don't have something to give or I mess up, they don't want anything to do with me anymore.
John's roleplay of bad disclosure/boundaries was literally word for word what I was thinking to say to my family lol
It is when you loose your faith that you start finding it
I just want to say, even though I appear to be 11 months late, that I'm glad you guys made this. I happened to watch it the day after I wrote up a personal reflection essay about my faith transition and ended up sending it to my mom. It was very reassuring, in light of that scary first step, to know that much if not all of the advice you gave was stuff I was able to figure out and incorporate on my own, and the way you described "feeling like the Nephi" was so validating. I was definitely one of those people growing up. I felt like I was my parents' golden child, I never acted out in any big ways, and I "yes-and"-ed everything they told me as a kid. Differentiation is such a scary thing when the religion running your family and your personal life has encouraged you to all believe the same things.
Today (about three days after sending it), my mom sent a message to me telling me she loved me, that it did indeed sadden her to hear, and that she would like to talk more. I'm nervous, but I feel a lot less icky now that the first step has been taken, and I am going to do my best to be conscientious in my discussion with her, as you guys modeled.
I'm a newcomer to the ex-Mormon/post-Mormon community, but that just makes me all the more glad for all the people like yourselves who have worked so hard to make such a community for me to find and feel comfortable in, years before I ever even knew I would need it. From the bottom of my heart, thank you!
nevermo here: I have to add that this can also apply to any situation where you express an opinion that is different from the mainstream e.g around bodily autonomy, or disagreement with government policies. I lost a friend and almost a family member just for having a different opinion. It was sad and really made me assess those relationships and how conditional they were/are
This is a real gift, very helpful, thank you
What great people you all are and wonderful parents you must be.
''who you want in your surroundings'' I found in the church that many members had a feeling that they owned you and they could invade your space or home or life uninvited. This leads members when they stop going to church to say to members ''leave me alone!''
The topic of conditional love applies to so many people, even non-mormons. The pressure to do or become what your parents want, is strong, and yes, growing up we often interpret this as “ this is how to be loved by mom or dad”. Even if it isn’t true, that’s what we internalize. I sure did and it had nothing to do with religion, but becoming a successful classical musician. After 5 decades, I am still grappling with this and trying to get to know myself more to understand what field of work I should be doing. When parents have been gone for over two decades, it’s hard because you can’t have anymore talks with them, so you have to try to figure it all out on your own. I look forward to hearing more of this podcast. Thank you for doing it.
Margi's such a badass
Thanks so SO sO much for your content and hard work. You are giving people access to truth.
Margi is on 🔥🔥🔥🔥 with the comments
I wish I had seen this before I told my husband and sister, but now I have a template for how to tell other people. Thanks you.
Thankyou. This has been extremely helpful; wish I had known all this when I left the church several years ago. Brilliant!
I’m the parent who is having an awakening thanks to my Nephi daughter actually. 36:18
I left the Catholic Church and have found a home in the Lutheran (ELCA) Church. I am reviled for leaving by my sister more so than my parents! I did receive the guilt trips from my parents at first. I thanked them for teaching me about Jesus. I can be a bad Catholic or a Good Lutheran. Your choice. I’ve chosen mine.
John: We're planning to go 2 hours
Me: Oh, so a short episode then
Yeah exactly! I'm lucky I can listen to whatever I want at work because I've been binge listening for the last few months. Some of them are really long and sometimes take me multiple days to finish. But I really enjoy them. I haven't gone to therapy since my faith crisis but Mormon Stories has really been a stand in for that. This is probably the most relatable episode to me and I'm not even an hour in yet 😅
Personal struggles and seaking help
Hello i am a 26 years old male and I am having so many struggles in my own beliefs of the church. I am finding myself to have more hopeful agnostic views personally. With this post I hope to establish connections and I am also I am looking for advise with trying to find ways to talk to my wife (who is still a believing member) of a year and am trying to talk with her about it and explaining the struggles that I have with the curch most of it being with regards to personal mental health struggles and trying to work with that as well as some of the teachings that the church has come out with and my own personal views and discussions that I have had with my wife. I am also trying to grapple with how I would talk with my parents about this and my personal struggles as well. The only member of my immediate family that I feel comfortable talking through this would be my younger sister who has her own struggles that she has been going through as well. I have been having these views for close to a hear now and have recently started looking and listening to “anti church” content for the first time ever.
This video is something I deeply needed thank you🙏
❤ Love Margi so much ❤❤
I am super active in the church. I still watch you just because I am open mind. I wish you could do a debate between active members and leaders. Like, smart debates about important issues! Like BYU, Honor code, gays, racism in the church history, the 55 wives that Brigham and Joseph had, the women that Joseph sealed in the temple which were already married. I don’t know. I am super open to everything! I go to church because of Christ and God! Not because of men!
I would love a debate like that!
men made up christ and god chief
I needed to heard this today! Thank you!!
I was terrified. It was extremely difficult coming out to my parents. Not as bad to my other siblings.
52:15 Disney’s “Let It Go” has entirely new meaning for me now. Thank you.
CSN: Southern Cross. "My love is an anchor tied to you, tied with a silver chain."
Your role play was spot on! 👍🏻🙏❤️
My partner keeps his family on an "information diet." No Mormonism in the family, but there are things they don't need to know!
Conditional love is when you do what someone else wants than they shower you with affection and love. Unconditional love is no matter what you do, they still love you and care for you. That doesn’t mean they can’t be safe, if it’s unsafe leave, but they can still shower you with love and affection!
Thank you so much! Love the reparenting explaination❤️
I was never a Mormon. I was/I’m a Christian (still unclear). And when I walked away, it had nothing to do with my religious teachings, it was more so the lack of compassion amongst church people and the hypocrisy on many things. This coaching can be applied to about any conversations you ever want to have. I was just a kid when this happened. Maybe just starting high school. I tried many churches, to find that feeling of unconditional love or compassion. It’s all mostly surface. Maybe I was looking for too much , maybe I was looking in the wrong place. Whatever it was, 15 or 16 year old me was out. I never communicated it though. I just avoided conversations about going to church and activities. I literally ran away in the opposite direction many times when my baptismal mentors approached me to talk about attendance. Anywho, all that to say, avoid uncomfortable topics while in transition. You don’t have to talk to everyone. Even “authority figures”. If these people have no other relationship with you other than church related, you don’t owe them anything. I didn’t know why I ran away from explanations, but thank the gods I did. Probably saved me a lot of trauma of people trying to save me or intentionally hurting me socially because I left. I was super polite. But I did do things not considered proper n the church community. from how I dressed to hair styles. I just let people come to me if they felt close enough to me, and I only engaged if I felt close and comfortable. Seriously, I wish I had the same discernment as I did back then. My mother was a hard one to avoid talking to about my faith transition, I depended on my parents for my survival, so I wasn’t gonna risk that. But now they are just happy that I somewhat believe in a God. It’s still not clear to them and I don’t mind that. I’m not getting into it, I think they understand by now. When they do religious stuff with me, I just go along to get along. It’s even comical.
Tip for kids still living at home: go on your journey alone. Only trust people who you know are either on the same path or would never ever ever put any belief above you. That means that as far as your parents, siblings etc go, you are whatever they want you to be until it is safe for you to disclose. It’s sad, but it’s not forever. Prioritize your physical and mental safety. They go hand in had. You family and friends knowing is not crucial. Enjoy that you know who you are. Remind yourself that the journey is yours alone. If it gets lonely, safely find people who think the same way you do. Start creating your own free community.
#youarenotalone be safe.
I am relating on many levels , but I grew up in religion that believes we will know each other in heaven but will not have that traditional family structure .I believe , and yes my construct is that , I will know my children and parents but we will be all be spirits together existing in transcendent love . That's where I feel the Morman belief in afterlife is very difficult to overcome .
Hi,
I observed things while on a mission that bothered me! When I returned, I researched Joseph Smith, Mormonism and Mormonism looking for answers. I abandoned Mormonism not saying a word to anyone. My mother asked me a few months later if I was ok, but she didn't want to know what was bothering me! I told her Joseph Smith lied about the whole thing! She walked away, but later wanted to know more! I shared with her what I found and we both laughed our asses off!
Sometimes its best to let others inquire; we don't need to initiate the discussion! If someone asks, they are obligated to hear us out, and if they walk we can ask if they are truly interested or was this just small talk? The peer pressure being on them: they'll either listen to all you have to say or walk. A win:win for you no matter what happens!
Oh, that's fantastic. Your Mum sounds really cool.
The kingdom is within ❤
2:25:38 This is my situation EXACTLY! I think my family knows I’ve left but we have never had the conversation. We don’t live near each other at all so they don’t see. If they asked I would tell the truth but my dad is in is mid ‘80s and has heart and health issues so I just don’t want to spring it up on him knowing it would completely devastate him. At his age I’m fine with him just thinking I’m a member but just inactive. I have no idea what my family thinks of me in regards to religion. Like you said earlier in the podcast, usually it’s just not talked about or brought up AT ALL! I’m totally fine with that. I don’t really want to have that conversation anyway.
Have the dehlin kids ever been on the podcast? How old, how many are there?
Where do Mormons fall regarding basically shunning members who leave vs practicing unconditional love? This seems like it should be paramount for everyone! (neverMo here).
It's honestly up to the individual. The leaders of the church send mixed messages. They say to still be loving to people who leave, but don't condone their choices that don't align with the church. "Love the sinner, hate the sin" was a common statement I heard at church. Some people's family members will shun, harass, or even disown them. But many, like my Dad and Stepmom, still love their children even if they choose not to be a part of the church. There is almost always an underlying feeling of sadness and disappointment though, because of the doctrine of eternal families
Interesting that my LDS counselor didn't think I was codependent.
How did I never notice this before? There are no women role models in the church. No wonder I had to strike out on my own and try to find my own oath.
Please make 1:06:01 for a perfect soundbite please please
Just because you leave the Mormon Church DOES NOT mean you've lost your faith, it just means you've lost faith in their prophets and sears, that don't have Revelations!!! I don't know of a revelation they've had since Joseph Smith and that goes, since Joseph Smith started lying about polygamy!!! No Revelations no profits but the good people still believe in Jesus Christ and that's all that's necessary!! If you don't believe me read the Bible!!!??
Most of our relationships are based on conditional love. Why are conditional love based relationships negative or not real?
At the risk of sounding a bit cynical, I would even say: NEWSFLASH! Most human beings are not interested in YOU and would hate YOU... if you would only let them see who you really are. They are interested in a persona which you can play and which fits into their worldviews. This is in and outside or religions. I would thus go one step further (of course agreeing with John's point of view too!) and say "accept that most relationships are based on people pretending and that they are based on conditional love". And that it's ... I wouldn't necessary say a good thing, but a 'default' status. Rare is the relationship which works in its core otherwise.
And ... the thing is, if people pretend and set up personas in order to be able to coexist with you... it IS effort. It is good.
Losing Faith
Or
Gaining Faith
Facing the truth of the diagnosis
Diagnosing the Fruits
Where are the Fruits?
What are the Fruits?
Thorns & Thistles
Or
Grapes & Figs?
For every one that leaves, ten more join.
15:22 exactly how I feel
“I’ll tell Sarah.” 😂😂😂
It sound like you're talking about worshipping one's self, which is like man. Self sovereignty or self rule will not address loneliness, ones limitation, insecurity or my failures. This is why I believe in God, not religion, because it satisfies my need for unconditional love that I nor man can prove. I too have expectations for myself, but all God ask of me is to have faith in him. And when I fail, God's unconditional love picks me up when I can't.
🌻🌻🌻
And yet the Church is still true.
Lol Carrah’s mom 😁
How do I sponsor someone for your retreat?
You can donate here Char:
www.paypal.com/donate/?token=nr-hEsTGrHDRmIE-Ttd8d30W7j-mqYgODnvMpqEYxLMYpMHyqaz_3Q7lfHWOdc6hrhdaCBTTB5iz278C&locale.x=US
I'll tell Sara
I wish I could be seen for being me.
1.06 that is a lie. I grew up Mormon with out a testimony. I went inactive when I turned 19 yrs old and came back to church when I was 22z I know this is His church with all in me. When people had come with those doubts , I am curious to know their story and see how can I help them. So you can not generalize that no one cares.
The Bible has so many female role models. Another thing the Book of Mormon ruins.
Yea start bringing them up, be a threat unto them. All their books are false & that mormon one is their bible & mis use the truth of the BIBLE to make those books like their true. And Joseph with his 37? 39? wives. Smith has conned the millions over with his lies.. & sadly people still fall for it. You The true Jesus of the Bible was is still a woman's lib liberator.
Maybe if people could speak for themselves and John doesn’t ALWAYS have to clarify what everyone just said your podcast length would be more to the time you want. Too much reiteration. Don’t get me wrong…I’ve enjoy these podcasts!
Are we talking about the same Latter Day Saints church? Because I understand exaltation very different on what you guys think the church teaches it. I think people were teaching wrong for so many years. The 3 grades of glory is the beautiful of His plan. He wants us to be happy and if we
If we can not be happy following His rules in here, we won’t be happy around Him in the celestial kingdom following not just the same rules but more! We came to conquer weakness, like Jesus did. We might never succeed but we can keep trying until the end. We can still find happiness here. A friend of mine told me “‘y goal is to make it to the middle, I feel being with God and all his apostles will be kind of boring” I don’t agree but it made so much sense. The Olán of salvation is for the individual. Regardless of what my kids want to do, I know where I want to be. I hope they want to be there back with Him too. If they don’t, that is okay. Because wherever they are they will be happy ♥️
When you find this video 5 months too late. 🫠