Every Rule I Followed as a Mormon (Coffee Can Keep You Out of Heaven)
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- Опубліковано 10 кві 2024
- Mormon God cares about all the wrong things. He has a lot to share about modesty for women and why coffee is bad, but so little to say about homelessness, disease, poverty, racism, bigotry, and countless other harmful realities.
Like and subscribe if you liked this video! Next week my video will be about how Mormonism got started, all with a teenage boy named Joseph Smith. This story is honestly WILD and the reality is quite different from what I learned as a faithful Mormon in Sunday School.
A few resources I mention in the video:
*Link to the comprehensive rules list: (www.google.com/url?q=...)
*Shorter, more humorous list by the Salt Lake Tribune: (www.sltrib.com/religion/2019/...)
*Mormon Health Code Explainer: (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_of...)
*Article covering the first ever For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet: (www.ldsdaily.com/personal-lds...)
*The version of the For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet I grew up with: (manmrk.net/tutorials/pda/b/PDF...)
*The current version of the For the Strength of Youth Pamphlet: (www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...)
*Mormon website outlining commonly asked questions about Mormon dating: (www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...)
*Chastity video featuring the waterfall: (www.churchofjesuschrist.org/m...)
*Current Mormon overview on being gay/"same sex attraction:" (www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...)
*CES Letter, a common tool used to deconstruct Mormonism: (cesletter.org/CES-Letter.pdf)
*Article analyzing the use of "p*rn addition" within Mormon culture: (www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/...)
*My book, How to Leave the Mormon Church: An Exmormon's Guide for Rebuilding After Religion (www.amazon.com/How-Leave-Morm...)
*My Mormon wedding explained video ( • Mormon Temple Weddings... )
*My Mormon endowment explained video ( • Secret Mormon Temple C... )
*My Mormon garments explained video ( • Mormon Garments Explained )
*My Mormon faith crisis ( • Why I Left the Mormon ... )
- where to find me -
TikTok: / alyssadgrenfell
Instagram: / alyssadgrenfell
Blog: www.howtoleavethemormonchurch...
Email me: alyssadgrenfell@gmail.com
- support my channel -
Venmo: venmo.com/u/Alyssa-Grenfell
No dating until 16 unless you wanna marry Joeseph Smith!!
😂😂😂
💀💀
HAHH
I think you mean "unless Joseph Smith wants to marry you."
He probably set that rule so he could groom all the kids💀
Yeah, it's a worldview that is difficult to understand. Coffee is bad, but grown men having sex with 14 year old girls is OK for Mormon god.
It’s entirely inconsistent and absolutely disgusting.
Joseph did not have sex with a 14 year old. Helen Kimball was sealed for eternity only, she wrote a poem saying so. Also she was not asked to testify at the Temple Lot trial as some of the other women did. She did not have sex with Joseph.
It's not that hard to look up, don't be lazy and stop spreading lies.
I take it upon myself to offer all the missionaries that visit a latte. And when they tell me they can't have any hot beverages, I immediately offer them an iced latte. LOL
@@RealRickCox sounds like you are a mean person.
@@michaelparks5669 They deserve it for allowing themselves to be so brainwashed.
A couple years ago I was at an Italian restaurant and I overheard a Mormon girl having a panic attack because she found out tiramisu had coffee and alcohol!
I would equal-parts feel bad, but also quietly laugh at the absurdity.
It shouldn’t be a problem since she wasn’t aware right?
😂
Its like kryptonite for them.
😂😂😂😂is the first reaction, and the second is how terribly sad that is for her. I really really hope someone that loves her and that she trusted and loved helped her out.
I'm actually grateful that my parents were hopelessly brainwashed by the church only for the fact that it helped me see my way out. When I started to question their religion at 8 years old, they gave me answers that set off alarm bells even at that age. Here are some examples:
Q: "Why can I ask my non-LDS friends to come to my church, but I can't go to theirs?"
A: "Well, it's because we're afraid that you might like it"
Q: "Why does the prophet want to take money from an 8 year old?"
A: "You need to start giving to the church when you're young and don't have very much money, because when you're older and have more, it will be more difficult to start giving"
And here's a question they had for me:
Q: "If the prophet asks you to leave your family and never see them again, would you do it?"
A: " :( ... Yes?" And then my mom started crying tears of joy... Yikes...
Of course there was sooooo much more. I had all but completely left their church by 12 ( I had to keep attending or I would be grounded until the next Sunday, but mentally I was elsewhere ), and that had major consequences for the trust they had in me and the freedom/autonomy I was allowed under their roof. I moved out while I was still in high school, and that one decision finally made me feel like my life was actually worth living.
That is a shocking comment. I had a couple mormon friends and I was aware they held unusual beliefs they inherited, but the manner in which that is accomplished hadn't fully dawned on me.
Thank you for all the interesting observations.
I want to say as a mormon kid growing up who had large boobs naturally... it didn't FEEL ideal. I was hypersexualized, i had to be EXTRA modest, and my worthiness was called into question often by leaders, other parents, and peers. There seemed to be an idea that you could only develop large boobs if you were sexually active! WHAT!
That is past appalling. Psychological and emotional abuse.
Meanwhile in their minds they were all perving on you…..
Yeah I feel like this was a pretty common occurance for a lot if girls who developed early in the church, me and my BFF both hit growth spurts pretty early on and after that it felt like every other lesson in young women's was about modesty and not being a temptation for boys or men.
Thisssss The comparatively flat chested girls could wear a high v neck shirt and not get called out, but I wear the same one and there is inevitably cleavage to no fault of my own, and I'm sinning. The judgement.
@@kkckoz144 I hope the boys were hearing about how they should keep their eyes and thoughts in check.
There’s nothing quite like hunkering down with a hot cup of devils bean juice and an Alyssa Grenfell video 💜
Coffee at this hour??? Haha jk, I like evening espresso too!
Who drinks coffee at 9 pm?
Nothing like a glass of wine or a fun cocktail to laugh at all the religious trauma!! ❤
@@aztecwrrior1997blud forgot timezones exist
@@silvermalwareai4047 literally
Perhaps someone has mentioned this, but the "no coffee" rule is a "tit for tat" thing.
Joseph Smith came up with this "revelation" after Emma expressed her frustration about having to clean up the chewing tobacco spit, and alcohol containers after the men's meetings.
While the men were getting together, the women were as well; their choice of refreshment was tea and coffee.
SOOOO, in the word of wisdom, Joseph shut down the use of tobacco, alcohol, and tea and coffee.
"If the men can't have what we want, you women aren't gonna get yours either."
There you are, and now you know.
I love these vids, and all you are doing to bring awareness to the craziness that is mormonism.
I deconstructed my 50 years into it with message boards and books.
Your content is, and will be incredibly helpful to those who are currently deconstructing their beliefs and finding the courage to leave.
I thought that maybe it was because tea and coffee are so dark (racism), but this makes even more sense!
So much like growing up in the SDA church!
This is fairly accurate from what I have learned as the WoW origin.
thats actually hilarious beyond measure 🤣🤣🤣
They also made coffee for their guests that came to visit on long trips--hypocrites
When I was 16, I had hair that went to my shoulders (I'm a guy). I was very careful to keep it well kept, and when I blessed/prepped sacrament I always kept it in a tight ponytail with a white hair tie (my choice, not required). Was prepping sacrament as I did every Sunday before the 10 am meeting when my young men's president, first counselor, and bishop all called me away into the Bishop's office. I was told that my hair was "distracting members of the congregation from their ability to properly partake of the sacrament." I will never forget those words. Then they told me that, starting that morning, I was forbidden from exercising my Aaronic priesthood in ordinances until my hair was "properly cut." Left the office in tears feeling like I had insulted my faith by growing out my hair.
Went to my dad, who was also upset, but was basically told "what's more important, your priesthood duties, or your hair?"
Yeah, I think that's the day I started to disconnect from the people in charge, and the church in general.
did you keep your hair?
@@1hitpointleft873 I did not! Had it cut about two weeks later.
@@RebelSoldier9571I'm so sorry that's assss
Then you look at every depiction of Jesus and he has the exact length hair as you had 😂
They're just jealous of your hair, hope you grow it out nowadays as you wanted, hope You're also doing well
"Don't date until you're 16," but my 3x great grandma was married as the 2nd wife at the age of 15 by B.Y to my grandfather.
Different eras. Do you realize that the average life expectancy in the year 1900 was only 44. Yeah, getting married at a seemingly young age was common then. It can be misleading to apply 2024 standards to life in the 1850s. Just sayin' Peace.
@@ericstormdragon3534- Average life expectancy is the most misunderstood and misused statistic ever. High infant mortality rates skews that number badly. Most people lived back then until the same ages that we do today, most people died in the 60-80 year of their lives. Explaining early marriage by quoting life expectancy is a bit bogus.
@@dejavu666wampas9 Probably not the most misunderstood but your point has validity, I appreciate that. Caracalla of Rome was Caesar at age 22 and some people lived into their 70s in his time. People seem to mature sooner then and in the mid 1800s than these days. People often married at a younger age in the past. Comparing current marriage ages to the way it was in the mid 1800s could be the second most bogus statistic?
@@ericstormdragon3534 The average age of marriage in the 1800s was not drastically younger. The Census puts the median age for women in 1840’s America at 21.
@@ericstormdragon3534
Avg. age was younger then because such a large percentage of children died before the age of 5. Once a child grew up they weren't that likely to die young.
And the average marriage ages were in the 20s from 1800s thru 1950s.
That "Well, people married younger then," is a lie you will only hear from mormons. (Also, terrorizing a 14 year old child into having sex with you was absolutely sexual abuse in the years it was done Joseph Smith.)
There was a Sunday when I was about ten or eleven, I was really, really sick, and we were out of medicine. So my dad went to the store and bought some for me, and I felt so guilty over it for "making" my parents spend money on a Sunday. They told me it was fine and God understood, but these rules get so ingrained into you, it didn't help much. Definitely a normal thing for a child to feel guilt over something they can't control! /s
That’s so baffling to hear as someone who grew up in the Catholic Church. It’s common practice for Catholics to go out to eat on Sunday mornings after church. Even my family, who didn’t have that kind of money, would take us to Dunkin Donuts afterwards. Spending money on Sunday is so common for Catholics.
@@JasTheSassright? Catholics like to eat! (And drink)
It's so baffling to hear people speaking of following rules that may negatively effect themselves and others.
If your neighbor needs something they can't afford, would a loving God want you to tell them they have to wait until the next day because you can't spend money on Sunday? It just doesn't make sense.
Guilt is the cornerstone and foundation of religion
No you wouldn't be expected to not help your neighbor in ANY capacity because "it is Sunday" the Lord has asked us to both keep the Sabbath day Holy and to serve and love our neighbors. He also expects us to use our common sense in these matters. Keeping the Sabbath day holy means different things to different people. There are some,in every religion I might add that use extremes. And others go in the opposite direction people who leave the church and then produce these types of videos use the most extreme cases of members they knew to sensationalize their channels...
The coffee/caffeine thing is so interesting to me, because I was taught that caffeine was the reason for the no coffee rule. We avoided caffeine in everything, and I was told multiple times that dark chocolate (or too much milk chocolate) was off limits because there was caffeine in it lol.
17 years later I still don’t drink alcohol, and drink very little coffee. I can’t bring myself to get past the idea that I should hold myself to some weird expectations I don’t believe in and haven’t for nearly 2 decades.
We can’t afford food storage with inflation, and it stresses me out. I feel weird about going shopping on Sundays when I need to. I generally feel uncomfortable in shorts and tank tops… All these weird little things that are fine on their own, but are all rooted in fear and shame.
Mormon conditioning is no joke.
The conditioning is a real thing! I live in Utah, no Mormon and I even feel uncomfortable for wearing a perfectly modest (high neck) sleeveless top.
@@BroccoliAndCheese01 Isn't it rich how the Church owned Coca Cola and Orion Pictures? LMFAO We can own the sin of others and make a profit off of them, and ours will remain untouched by its evils. Blah blah blah.
Imagine being a woman who has always been taught that only being married and a mother is the goal, and no one chooses you. Where do you go/feel then? Even at 32 I was brought into the "older single people issue" meetings where they would tell us all to drop our standards and marry each other. Oh, and when I asked why the Stake President wanted to meet with me, they literally would not tell me - so a bunch of 30+ single people get called to the church in the middle of the week without being told why to be told that they are an issue, because they aren't currently married and might confuse the married members. Dude, I could not make this stuff up. I left that meeting and chose my own path - no regrets other than it took so long :)
These rules feel very controlling… calling your coffee table a living room table because you are afraid to sin or get close to sin is crazy. So glad you’re happy now ❤
My LDS parents called it a coffee table ❤
All religions seek to control people. Mainstream religions do it all the time. Once you've internalized them you don't even notice.. the Bible is full of nonsense & nobody "Christian" cares: Creationism, Noah's Ark, a talking snake, the Tower of Babel, God changing his mind about the salvation of Gentiles, Moses's miracles, the Resurrection, divine conception... - all complete nonsense.
My name is Harry Plopper and I was raised in a cult. All the rules are there to instill blind obedience so you’ll never leave the cult and will give them money and power over you.
off topic but in Germany we do call it "Wohnzimmertisch" which translates to "living room table"
I call it a coffee table. There are no rules about such things. No one cares and if they do? ... Well, just ignore them.
One time this guy I knew gave a talk, and he shared a story about his friend, who is a black man. His friend has an Afro, and once his friend was walking into the chapel, minding his own business, and an old white woman told him that his hair “wasn’t Christ-like”. I think about this all the time because that is his natural hair, and what’s more Christ-like than being yourself?
It’s complicated. Some people are born with or instilled with cravings they very much count as being themselves. The looks aren’t causing a problem. But pedophiles can.
@noahraab2429 did you just compare being black to being a pedophile......?
EDIT: typo
Funny cause in the Bible it says Jesus had hair like wool, and skin of copper… sounds like the man with the Afro being himself was very Christ like.
Seems pretty Christlike to have a halo.
Pretty sure his hair is more Christ-like than that lady
Classic cult control. The Bite model.
B: Behaviour control
I: Information control
T: Thought control
E: Emotion control
The fact that the. Church demands donations yet gives nothing in return, is disgusting. Like they can't help the members struggling financially. It also low key feels like an mlm.
My mother as a single mom got injured at work and reached out to the church for help with food for all of us. She and all of us were current in our tithing but was told we would have to give away our pets before they would consider helping us and reminded that she would not remain an upstanding member if she did not tithe 10% of her unemployment income. We put up with a lot of discriminatory behavior without having a man to represent the family in church; the realization and clear statement that our money was the key and only concern for the church is what finally ended things for all of us.
That was definitely a "who moved my cheese" moment, for sure. Hope ur mom is doing ok.
@@planetindiana5044 wow that's crazy i'm so sorry that you and your family had to go through that, they pretend they're all nice but they're just so greedy what a shame
They give nothing in return?? Wow! Sometimes its best to keep your mouth shut than show your ignorance
@@planetindiana5044And not long ago, the church hid $ 32 billion in assets. But turned their back, and told you to get rid of your comfort in hard times-your pets, besides. Figures.
I was in the military wirh a mormon, nice kid. He refused to drink coffee but would down energy drinks like it was nothing. Never understood it. So basically the mormon reasoning foe no coffee is "we don't know, just cuz". Flawless logic mormanism
Ironic since coffee is much healthier than any energy drink yet they claim the ban is because they follow the 'word of wisdom', meant to promote healthy living. Such hypocrites.
What’s funny is that coffee is wayyyy better for you than energy drinks and has a ton of health benefits in moderation
i agree it's illogical but it is funny to me that you're judging other people's weird life choices when you joined the US military 😂
😂
As someone who was raised Mormon, I was told that both coffee, caffeinated tea, and energy drinks were bad, and that was the general consensus, even in the LDS children’s magazine I read there were stories about people refusing to drink energy drinks and choosing to be righteous
I want to ad something. I am a high functioning autistic male, who was sent home after 16 months on my mission, because my autism and having to be in constant social situations were causing me a lot of emotional trauma. It wasn't until I was in my 30s that I was able to start dating, because none of the Mormon girls would consider going out with a guy who came home early from his mission. What is further frustrating, I had lots of female friends, many of them on the spectrum, who wanted to date me, but growing up in Tennessee, few of these girls were Mormon, or if they were, they got snatched up by a Mormon return missionary (often with their own miserable results) so I was just not able to date, because the non-Mormon autistic girls were off limits.
Looking back, I don't think I would have been ready for marriage with any of those girls, but just because you are autistic doesn't mean you can't have romantic feelings, or that you don't want them, and you can still be happy with a romantic partner, even if you take it a bit slower than what is normal from others, but Mormonism stole those opportunities from me. I can not begin to tell you how much suffering and misery I had as an autistic person raised in Mormonism, but I honestly can not say I had it as bad as females, LGBTQ people, and minorities in the church, because those poor people get it awful as well.
My ex is ex mormon and a transgender woman. We ended up not working out because she was a LOT of trauma to work through, but I still feel for her on an emotional level. Her immediate family is very accepting but her extended family…truly awful. I nearly slapped her grandmother for calling queer folks savages at her sister’s wedding rehearsal dinner.
Happily married autistic woman with an autistic husband. You, dear sir, are completly right. It is possible.
I worked at Spectrum Academy for a year. It's a school for kids with autism in Pleasant Grove (and North Salt Lake but I worked at the PG location). I worried so much about those kids moving forward.
@@makaylaserniotti1474😢
Why do you stay in the Mormon Church? You don't have to rely on Mormon women who judge you on performance instead of personality. Leave the church. I was born into another cult and left in my mid-20s. It's hard at first, but the life you get is so much better. For me, it's been 20 years. Oh, and I'm also autistic and married to an autistic ADHD man. Everyone can find happiness.
I am 52 years old. I grew up Mormon, left the church when I went into the service (1st Gulf War), and married a Catholic. Compared to Mormonism, being Catholic is great. You can do ANYTHING as long as it's in moderation. I have my morning coffee, enjoy a cold beer when it's hot outside, and there's a lot to be said about a full beard to keep your face warm when the snow flies. I still maintain a close relationship with God, but it's more personal as I'm not having the terms force on me by some bishop of the stuffed shirts in the temple. I'm happy for those who found the courage to escape.
I had a really hard time growing up in the church as a queer person, the Sundays where they'd talk about marriage only between a man and a woman would sometimes send me home crying. I'm lucky that I had accepting parents who would berate anyone who was mean to me, but it was still difficult most of the time. I'm glad you're here showing how bizarre and arbitrary the Mormons can be, and i hope that it helps many people realise how harmful the Mormon Church can be
Sending you goodcwishes for peaceful and happy life. I am sorry you suffered so much. You are a good and valuable creation of the universe.
That's one of few things that Mormonism got right
I was at my mom's house and wanted a cup that could go in the microwave. I asked for a coffee cup. She got angry and said they don't have coffee cups. I couldn't think of how else to describe what I needed. "Okay, well, what do you call them, then? A cup with a handle." She got super flustered and said, "It's... uh... a hot chocolate cup." We both knew this was not the correct term. I later realized that my mom and I had both forgotten the word "mug." :'D
how dare you imply she drinks coffee!
It's so frustrating you forgot a simple word. Now your mom won't get to heaven because you said coffee cup.
haha, so I guess only your mother was Mormon?
but if you weren't a Mormon how come you forgot the word mug ?
I forgot the word while reading as well 😂
Yea!, coffee mug! 😅
Smith saw 'tea parties' as places where people would gather together and discuss politics and gossip, especially against himself so he used the popular theory at the time against hot liquids as his excuse of outright banning them.
That makes sense. I figured it was probably for some sort of political reason....maybe even something related to not supporting the whole coffee bean industry or something.
I read somewhere that the women in the quilting circle were gossiping about Emma and excluding her from their activities, so Joseph had a revelation to avoid coffee and tea which would break up the little meeting groups that excluded Emma. Who knows if this is true, but it makes sense when looking at a lot of Smith's "revelations" as just another self-serving rule.
That wouldn't surprise me as being part of it too, though I also see it as being part of the general temperance movement of the time. There were lots of organizations claiming that if you restricted what you ate, it would change your behavior. Like this was during the same time that other organizations were banning people from using things like pepper because hot foods might lead to hot desires... or the guy who created corn flakes because he thought eating gross, bland foods would curb your desire to masturbate.
So the main stimulant beverage of the day absolutely would have been banned by someone adhering to those kinds of ideas, and likely the reason sodas and caffine weren't banned is because they simply didn't exist yet. (Coca Cola was created in the 1880s, several decades after the death of Joseph Smith)
Coffee houses have been popular places for wealthy educated intellectuals to hang out together since the 1600s. I wonder if the no coffee thing was to keep members of his church away from confident men well practiced in logic and debate.
@@sybariticcupboardrat3763The coffee house tradition was an Enlightenment-era European one; I do not believe it had an analogue in the United States.
Me and my wife left the church three months ago. Greatest decision we ever made, we feel like we don’t have this shadow of guilt hanging over us anymore. No more rules or strict expectations. We feel free. And yes I’ve started drinking coffee and to be honest I love it.
Congratulations! I hope you guys are managing well and still enjoying your coffee 💛
I once turned down a Mormon missionary by telling him "sorry, I love coffee too much."
The “living room table” some top-tier cult shit right there lmaoo
That is not accurate, I call it a coffee table.
Idk, my family called it both interchangably. It was the table in the living room after all. But it wasnt like they were avoiding saying the word coffee (of course, some mormon families were way more strict and weird about things than mine)
That hit home.. 'the living room table.' 😂 For years, and years this was a thing and never thought twice about it.
The November Juliet table
For a while my dad banned chocolate in the house, as did his Mormon uncle, since it contains caffeine. After several years of "carob cake" he got overruled and the family went on a chocolate binge that even now isn't completely under control.
This gets funnier as I read 😅
Your dad's rule back fired and turned everyone into Augustus Gloop 💀
@@kenny995😂😂😂😂😂
For the simple fact that I’m allergic to chocolate & only have carob as an option I’m grateful that people have wanted to avoid chocolate enough to make carob taste better than it did when I was a little kid & my mom was against us eating chocolate though she had some hidden away! I miss chocolate & wish I wasn’t allergic since cocoa butter is in most good gluten free skincare.
Historical Jesus would never wear a toga, which was Roman formal wear akin to a modern day business suit. Jesus wore a simple tunic like every other working class man of his day. But historical accuracy is not exactly a strong point of Mormonism.
oh man.... when you talk about visual standards that hit HARD
I'm from an Italian background, and grew up in Utah Mormonism. I remember the feeling of being othered because my skin was darker than most other Mormons, and my hair is dark, thick, and curly, which harkens back to the experience you read (though thankfully none of the church leaders ever teased me about it like they did with him) and I can remember in my teenage years wearing like SPF 70+ sunscreen all summer to try to stay as pale as possible and trying to bleach out and straighten my hair to fit in... and let's be honest I just looked like a mess.
But also the haircut... oh the haircut. It was the 90s when I was a teen and the grunge look was in style. I got into so many arguments with my parents about letting my hair grow out because I really wanted to try to get that look (which was obviously an issue with how curly my hair is as stated above) and them saying that Jesus wouldn't approve of long hair. Which obviously caused the argument of Jesus HAD long hair.... I even remember once my parents came into my room at night when I was sleeping to cut a chunk out of my hair so I would be forced to go in and get it cut.
And I remember really the whole thing with the white shirt being told to go home and change because I had a pale blue shirt on one week... or some weeks I would intentionally not wear a tie or wear an off color shirt if I didn't feel like I wanted to do the sacrament, and the dirty looks I'd get from the older men in the church for sitting in the congregation while they passed the sacrament instead. Because they were so particular about this that they wouldn't let you do the sacrament in a not solid white shirt that they'd bring out the old guys in their 50s to do it instead.
I grew up in Utah. I converted to LDS at 14. Left the church at 19. It’s been 6 years since i left. I still cover my shoulders. The shame runs so so deep.
I lived in VERY Mormon Utah County. People would just about faint over the fact that I drank coffee.
I love your dog omg
Coffee is against the "Word of Wisdom". I don't drink it, however I also do NOT care about such silly little infractions in other people. People need to "just about faint" about real things. Anyway, that's how I feel. Peace.
But coffee cake contains absolutely no coffee! Cinnamon, yes. Brown sugar, yes. Butter and flour, yes yes. But NO coffee!
Maybe because it’s intended consumption is with coffee? Insane
I never, not once, had coffee cake as a kid. It simply wasn’t a thing in our household. I think the first time I heard of it was when my mom accidentally got the “coffee cake flavored” muffins from Costco. She FREAKED OUT and took them back. I thought they had coffee in them!!
I stopped drinking any caffeine before I was baptized. The day of my baptism (I am a convert and been drinking caffeine since I was 8) I collapsed and started having seizures. My mother called the missionaries to reschedule my baptism. They told her to get some caffeine in me. Since then no one bats an eye, though I am sure they got in trouble.
A coffee table does not have coffee in it either. It is all about avoiding the appearance of evil. Her analogy of the boat going over the edge of the waterfall is exactly what Mormons believe. The edge should be avoided as much as possible. Hence, you would not eat coffee cake on your coffee table without a cup of coffee because all of that is already too close to the edge. I wonder how avoiding the appearance of evil looks in other religions like Judaism and Islam.
Much to my irritation…. Make it make sense! Coffee should be an ingredient, its *coffee* cake!
I’m a Baha’i that attends a few Mormon events from time to time, so this definitely pit things into perspective. I got the sense of a clothing standard for missionary’s, but I didn’t get the whole sense of rules.
For us Baha’is, we do fasting around the start of March for 19 days. And, our rules is that children cannot choose a religion till their 16. We don’t make kids fast until then, so hearing that kids fast at 8 years old is bizarre!
I'm Jewish, children only fast after having their Bar or Bat Mitzvah at around 13(when they're officially part of the congregation and can read from the Torah and count for a minyon, etc.). Having a literal small child fast is so strange.
@@rhyesse That's a lot more reasonable!!!
It quite is, they're still in stages of growing, they must eat. You can' fast, but don't force your child too.
I still go to church because im a minor and i have to. Yesterday we had Sunday school and i wasnt paying attention to the lesson but the 2nd bishopric counselor told the young men "this is a good quality to have when you are a member of the bishopric"
Then the teacher told the young women "this is also a good quality to have when you're mothers" 😒
Eww. This made me frown harder than I've ever frowned.
on the topic of modesty, i was raised mormon, and there was a sunday when i was about six (im 15 now) where we were scrambling to get out the door to church. I had a lot of dresses that didn't have sleeves, but it wasn't a problem since I'd usually just throw on a nice sweater over the top. but we were already running super late and I couldn't find one, so my parents said screw it and said it would be fine for just one sunday and it was better to show up than not. that day in primary they were talking about modesty. they were talking specifically about how shorts and skirts should go to our knees, and that we should never show our shoulders. it seriously felt very targeted and my mom was super mad. there were girls who wore sleeveless dresses all the time. they were also six. it didn't matter. but i guess it did the one time i did it. that shit still hurts man.
Creepy that they would think six year olds needed to be THAT modest. Feels like sexualizing children. Sorry that happened to you.
@@JuliaGulia310 THATS WHAT IM SAYING. and yeah it sucks because when you think about all the rules about modesty in the mormon church, when applied to kids, its like why?? why can't a kid show their shoulders? and i get they don't want six year olds in like super revealing outfits but it's not like i pulled up to church in a bikini.
I've seen someone say purity and paedophile culture are two sides of the same coin, it's both sexualising children and saying that adults being attracted to children is somehow normal. Anyone who looks at a 6 year old and thinks they're sexy should be locked away from the actual humans
I had a very similar experience with a false tattoo I got during a vacation when I was like 7-I vividly remember them talking about how anyone who dyes their hair or gets tattoos is doing it for worldly attention. I still think about it
I was giving a talk in sacrement, and a lady approached afterward to tell my mom I was dressed too sultry for church and my mom should have been ashamed to let me dress that way. I was 13. It's so inappropriate the way young girls are sexualized, and for new good reason.
My family left the Mormon church when I was 13. Glad I got out as early as I did.
That's when I left.
How did they explained/justified the change to you? I imagine it can be difficult for a kid to understand a so sudden change of lifestyle
We are even gladder!! We have been spared your weakness and confusion! Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw yo out.
Yes my parents divorced in the 7th grade because my dad was chugging cheap vodka in the garage abusing us.
@@JohnDLee-im4lo Sane people don"t want or need your cult.
Watching this while drinking my morning coffee☕
Enjoy!!! Lol
How dare you drink coffee in the morning? May the mormon God release the kraken on you. 😂😂😂
I myself was not Mormon, but my best friend was. So were many of my other friends growing up fundamentalist (southern baptist) in a heavily Mormon community. My high school had a seminary on campus, and everyone knew everyone in that community. There were times I would go to church with my best friend and I remember thinking, "wow, even my mom isn't this strict!" My funniest experience was the two of us in their bedroom as two afab people, and we were chatting on MSN with a friend my bestie made online in a game. Everything was all fine until their dad asked, "what have you girls been up to?" and I said chatting with a friend and he responded, "oh that's nice!" and then I made the mistake of saying "he" in my next sentence explaining what we were talking about. The deer in the headlights look my friend gave as their dad went "excuse me?" and them being like "OH SHE MISSPOKE, SHE'S A GIRL" is burned in my brain forever!
My wife and I deeply disagreed about specifics around "tea", etc ... until we did our own research and found that it originally was all about temperature. Early church leaders advised people to avoid tea, coffee, hot chocolate, hot soups, or anything injurious to the body. We were both SO confused how the Church could just "forget" or outright change what it means, and pretend it was that way the whole time. Same thing with tithing: originally only 10% of your surplus, and only if you can reasonably do so without disadvantaging your family
Yes! My dad has told me stories of how his grandmother would drink boiling hot coffee straight from the pot! We discussed that the rule which is labeled as “do not consume any hot drinks” doesn’t mean don’t drink coffee, it means don’t harm your body by consuming boiling drinks or foods. it’s sad how the church has twisted this rule.
@@ashlynnmiller9333 My dad said his parents (Jehovah's witness) also drank boiling coffee right off the pot 😬
My mom and her parents (Presbyterian) always put a bit of cold tap water in to cool it down instantly to drinking temp.
I just like to sip on it at a comfortable 75-90 degrees F after it cools naturally
I'm not being sarcastic or disrespectful, but could you please share where got your info? I would love to read up on that. I do belong to the LDS Church,but am struggling with especially the coffee thing When I do have a cup I start feeling guilty.
@@SueGear-yk8vr I'll ask her where (or how) she found it, and get back to you
@@SueGear-yk8vr Deseret News, June 5, 1968. "DISCOURSE" by Elder George Q. cannon. Here is an image link:
www.imghippo.com/i/yEXeG1715312645.jpg
I remembered back when I was still a teenager, my brother came home from his mission in Japan. He told me a story about how the members there offer missionaries mugi cha (barley tea). I was baffled by that thought since growing up, I was taught that drinking tea is bad so I asked our bishop at that time, "why is the word of wisdom different from culture to culture?" He didn't answer me and told me that he'd get back to me (but to this day he still hasn't answered).
Then, a year or two ago, I accompanied my brother to back Japan to visit his old mission area and subsequently joined a YSA conference with him. Again, I was baffled that everyone in that conference offered me mugi cha. Even the area authority! From then on I researched about tea and coffee and came to the conclusion that those rules were absolutely full of shit. Currently, I'm not a practicing mormon but still go to church because I still live with my parents who are very religious. After I finish my uni I am definitely moving far away from the church.
I had so little exposure to tea when I left the church that I had this like year long run of tea testing. 😂 I figured out which ones I liked, how to make it right and bought a specific mug for it. You'll come across a lot of weird little things like that as you move away, it is literally like being let out of a box.
@@michellesass5070 Wow, I can't wait to openly do a tea taste testing! Can you share what youre favorite tea as of now? I wanna try it :)) As of now I only buy tea secretly when I'm staying in uni. Can't wait to fully explore~
If you read the WoW, there's a loophole. It states "Mild barley drinks" are OK. that seems to include something like Mugi Cha or maybe even beer.
mugi-cha would fall under herbal since it's not made with leaves from the tea plant
@@kamatiss9033mine is English breakfast tea. Please be careful whilst watching and commenting on content like this. Satefy first. ❤
My parents always would push the rules and then lie just to keep that temple recommend. Like coffee. My mom would say “well it helps my headaches 😂” and then tell me well if it’s medicinal it’s ok and you don’t have to tell the bishop everything. It was so weird. I’m no longer a member.
It's just like Muslims that drink alcohol indoors "so that Allah doesn't see"
Yea, doesn't matter how weird and culty your religion is, you will never be able to pull people away from COFFEE.
Oh, the word of wisdom. Such a fun rule. I went down a rabbit hole with that once with my relief society president and she told me the real reason behind the implementation of the guidelines was actually because the women who cleaned up after the gatherings of the apostles who were smoking and drinking during the meetings complained about how gross they were and the smells that lingered. It was presented as Joseph's solution to Emma whining about his friends making a mess she had to clean up after, basically. Nothing about health or God 😂 That made more sense to me than any other explanation I'd been told.
Yep, kind of feel like if it wasn’t true, that would be rectified in conference
I was raised Protestant in the area of 'Canada's Bible Belt' and am the same age as you. As an adult I'm totally non-secular and work in Air Traffic Control, and I have been listening to literally HOURS of your Mormon experiences. It was amazing how much I found the way you describe your experiences and the way you emotionally navigate those situations then vs now resonated soo hard with my own experiences.
Much love, I hope to pick up your book soon and I hope you see more and more success with your writing. ❤❤❤❤❤
Do you mean totally non-religious/completely secular?
i'm sorry you had those experiences.
another bad thing about mormonism is that it gets conflated with Christianity. mormons call themselves Christian some times yet have prided themselves on being set apart from it & actual Christian doctrine at the same time.
I didn't know Canada had a Bible belt, too. I am guessing it's the prairie providences
@@merricat3025me neither! I’m imagining Pennsylvania but Canadian
@@oliviaroseink I am imaging ND and Idaho
My friends Mormon mom asked if anyone wanted a soda and I thought they couldn't have it because they said caffeine was a drug. So my little 8 year.old.sister.asked if they were trying to send her to hell in their religion
😂😂 How did the woman respond to that?
your sister is very smart
Does soda contain caffeine?
@@normanmeharry58 depends on the soda. Colas, Dr. Pepper and Mountain Dew will, but root beer, ginger ale or sprite for example won't.
This is what we call extremists and they are in every church, not just the LDS. I can say as someone who converted, and was NOT forced into this, while alot of information in this video is somewhat true...it's very specific to this individual's experience. And even the comment sections. You have to choose what fits you right? Religion isn't everyone's cup of tea PERIOD, no pun intended. But i've gone to a lot of church's, and I can say i'd give up coffee to get what I've received back mentally and spiritually since joining any day of the week. Oh we also say coffee table and are allowed coffee cake...another very extreme take.
I have many mormon friends and my mom and sister are both members. I know many that drink coffee, wine, beer, and even weed, they just keep it to themselves. So people do violate these rules and don't feel guilty about it since they don't really have to deal with people about their choices since they don't do that around them. 3 or 4 times of masturbation per year is an addiction? Nah.
Im jewish and I moved to Utah (they gave me a good scholarship) and this video highlights so many reasons why mormons THINK they're similar to jews but really are so so different. and I dont mean that in a "ew you're not like us get away" I just mean our two groups have fundamentally different lifestyles. for example we also have 613 commandments (known as mitzvot), however despite the English translation they're not perceived as steadfast rules. they're things a jew does or doesn't do in order to improve ourselves, the world around us, and to bring us closer to g-d. we are heavily encouraged to actively think about the mitzvah as we are performing it. there is no punishment for not doing one or for modifying one so I have never felt guilty when I struggle with some of them because no one has ever made me feel that way. similarly, the word "sin" is used to describe "missing a target" aka a time when you could have done something good but you chose not to. its more about actively putting good into this world rather than strict rule following and punishment. ive tried explaining to mormons that our traditions are quite different than theirs and are heavily influenced by our long and tumultuous history and it's so hard for them to get it. ive met a few amazing mormons who have been super accepting of me and im super grateful for them ofc :)
also this reminds me of a time where a mormon said that animated breastfeeding in a show was immodest and sexual. which was wild to me bc thats the thing breasts are meant to do and its not even real its literally moving drawings.
My Judaism revision for my re paper paid off lol
I have grown up in the church, in a very religious town where its illegal to even offer alcohol in the reastraunts and no coffee shops have survuved lol. I have been taught all about the rules and one that still sticks with me is alcohol, i had been basically told that anyone who drinks alcohol is a horrible person, when my bfs dad has a drink whole i was there my brain went straight to this man is going to end up doing something horrible when in fact that man is one of the best dads ive ever met.
I am only 15 years old and i know my parents will not let me leave the church till i move out. I did indeed get lucky with dating cause my mom knows if she didnt let us hangout we would find a way to anyway. Being the youngest has its pros and its cons. My sisters all have left the church so my parents have lightend up a bit sometimes letting me wear a two peace as long as it is only the smallest bit of stomach, same goes with crop tops. But god forbid me being allowed to wear a tank top still. On the other hand, i am now the one who they want to perfect and for me to be the one that stays in the church. Which has caused me to be very inclosed and very good at keeping secrets. Sometimes when i am infact telling the truth my mom claims she knows im lying because the holy ghost gave her a feeling.
Now i am counting down the days till i can move out and live the way that makes me the happiest, and dress the way that i feel the most confident. And i can drink all the coffee i want.
I know it's definitely tough to do at your age. But you only have to make it through a couple more years. Hopefully you can go to college when you move out, and thrive and be your own independent self! I'm rooting for you!
It’s not an ideal way to raise a young woman but if its done from their love of you and isn’t extreme discipline of any kind there will be things that come from it that you’ll appreciate. Maybe not the faith entirely. More supported monitored freedom at your age which is gradually increased as you mature would help you be ready at 18 so knowing that maybe you can prepare yourself a bit. I don’t know. Good luck. Being able to share that and show that level of insight……..you’re doing amazing at 15.
Stay safe whenever you're able to explore!
@Twinpiglet Please leave this girl alone.
You seem very self-aware and that’s a great advantage, especially since you’re so still so young. Parents end up unintentionally gaslighting their kids for a lot of reasons, but it usually has something to do with their own anxieties. And when you’re the only kid left to focus on, that can be especially tough. Seems like you have a good head on your shoulders, though. Stay true to yourself.
Please Alyssa, for the love of Coffee, react to the South Park episode about Joseph Smith and Mormonism😭
I'd love to hear her thoughts on the BoM musical. Very interesting parallels with the Story of Irl missionaries and Joseph Smith imo
I promise it’s coming! I did a reaction video last week so I didn’t want to do back to back reactions 😭
@@alyssadgrenfell OMC I’m so happy🤗
@@alyssadgrenfell it’s ok. We love a good back to back reaction video lol well..I do
Up until I started watching Alyssa’s videos, that episode was my source on everything I knew about Mormonism… and after watching Alyssa’s videos, it seems surprisingly accurate…
Wow! As an ex Muslim convert we have so much in common. So many silly rules that don't make sense and no room to question them because we are supposed to submit to God. And looking at the rules with any kind of critical thinking means we are being influenced by Satan.
That's what I've been thinking while listening to the videos. There are way less Mormons in Western Europe than Muslims. And so many things are similar in principle (which comes from observation or conversations with colleagues for example)
Like:
Mormons: coffee- no, energy drinks- yes
Muslim: alcohol- no, weed- yes
Both Mormons and Muslims: some families- no for either, some families- as long as it's not mentioned in the scripture by name it's ok even if someone could object due to effect on mind and body
That's just one example and there's lots
Mormonism is just Islam for white people
There’s no such thing as silly rules in Islam. Just bc our human minds cannot understand the wisdom doesn’t mean there’s no wisdom. May Allah guide you.
And your last point is incorrect. We can absolutely use critical thinking. Allah literally encourages us to use our minds and hearts and to reflect on things. Sadly, it sounds like you lack a great deal of knowledge when it comes to the deen.
Glad you & your husband got out, if only just for your UA-cam channel. Awesome presentation & fantastic depth on your personal experiences.
Coffee cake doesn't even have coffee in it. Refusing to eat a cake just because it's named for something it typically is served with and not wanting to call it a coffee table would be almost adorable if it wasn't just evidence of people being so scarred by the arbitrary rules of their religion.
I am lds and I have eaten a coffee cake. And yes I do call it a coffee table.
I wonder if it's the same for the devil cremes and squares
@@PennesinoTheGreatclearly, you have “chosen” the path of sin.
You can just call the same treat “cinnamon cake”
Regarding the dating thing, I was friends with 3 mormon kids in middle school (2 since elementary, they're fraternal twins) and B (one of the twins) had a crush on this guy, N, for multiple years and at some point somebody confessed and the feelings were mutual. I remember calling N her boyfriend or insinuating that he was her boyfriend in like 6th grade and was told "No, he's my special friend". They were definitely holding hands when they thought no one was looking. I just assumed B's mom was strict and didn't want her to date so she had to use code words. Didn't realize it was a mormon thing until now.
Also, the four of us and our parents went to a local pizza place one time in middle school and when I asked them what they wanted to drink I somehow discovered that they couldn't drink tea and I thought that was the weirdest shit ever since we lived in the American South™ where your blood is sweet tea. We then had a lengthy conversation about some of the basic rules they had to follow. I was raised in the southern baptist church (yippee.....) and I thought it was really strange. I was so confused why God would care what they had to drink.
If you are thinking of joining, DON’T! After 30 years I’ve finally learned the truth. ❤
I had some dealings with Mormons in a little town I transferred to. One super scrubbed guy with clothes that looked washed to death kept coming up to me. One day I said we should go out for coffee. He panicked " I COULD LOSE MY PLACE IN HEAVEN !" and ran off. Never saw him again.
I think the rule on coffee stems from the tax that was placed on it during the birth of the religion. If you had a desire or addiction to coffee and were continually paying for it, they would be also be paying a lot of tax… and that may prevent some from giving their 10%
This makes more sense than other suggestions. And it included tea also.
That would make sense as coffee and tea were luxury products for a long time.
This makes a ton of sense. Just like a lot of the weird rules in Leviticus could be explained by the specific living conditions of the time. Especially since it was apparently not a hard and fast rule but more of a guideline-- trying to just nudge people away from it.
ugh they just always want your money. figures.
My theory is that this all took place in the heat of the Temperance Movement. They simply took farther than most. They needed to prove their loyalty to the US government.
So when the Prohibition came into effect, they changed the Word of Wisdom from optional to mandatory. But only to avoid further conflict with authorities.
When the prohibition came to end, they never backtracked like everyone else. It had more to do with politics than anything.
don't know what to say other than that I admire not only your bravery, but your dedication to creating a channel to create a potential 'out' for other mormons
It takes absolutely no bravery to make up bullshit on the internet.
uhh ohh mormon detected 😂
@@jyots_na um, no...
@@snakesandsticks (: my comment was for @bobocomments
@@jyots_na ah, gotcha
The craziest rule for me as a convert to the church was no coffee or tea. I never truly gave it up, and really didn't want to get baptized in the church, I felt like it was so forced upon me.
In Utah we where taught that porn was just as addictive as heroine. This is frankly the first time I've seen someone else think this is silly.
Your point about a ‘slap in the face’ when the rules confidently change is a good one. I go a step further and call it spiritual abuse. I struggle to understand why any Black person or anyone not born heterosexual would be at all open to becoming Mormon. Even if they suddenly allow membership.
Re: Black people prior to 1978 -- Watching your channel and mormon stories podcast got me so interested in all this that I actually put my info into the LDS website and requested missionaries come speak to me. I met with them twice now. On the second meeting, one of them said something that shocked me. I was asking about all these changes. And his answer was "If the Book of Mormon is true, nothing else matters." I had to press him a little bit to figure out what exactly he meant by that. He said, "Well yeah, maybe there's some blemishes in our past. Yeah, maybe the exact cut of the garments has changed over time. Yeah, maybe sometimes certain rules seem to change. But as long as the Book of Mormon is true, why does that matter? Are we really meant to turn away from God's true church over a few blemishes in our past?"
Like woah woah woah holy shit. "Blemishes in our past." First of all you've got a lot of blemishes in the present, sir. But secondly, what a slap in the face to all the black people still alive today who lived through that 1978 rule change. "If the book of mormon is true, nothing else matters" is a great way to immediately erase all pain everyone has ever felt about anything. I was so shocked to hear it. One of them also came armed with a book, I forget the title, but it was a book co-written by four black mormon authors. And it was presented to me like "see, these black mormon authors wrote this book about their love for the church and so therefore mormonism isn't racist." I'm not Black so its not my place to say anything either way but I'm skeptical for sure.
I am surprised they even had the nerve to say "If the book of mormon is true, nothing else matters," since everything in the Book of Mormon is now provably false.
Before you go any further with the missionaries, look up 'CES Letter' on line to see just how false that religion is.
Also pay particular attention to how many women Joseph Smith married, their ages, and how many of them were married to other living men when he married them. These women frequently continued living with their first husbands, who did not know their wives were also married to Joseph Smith. It's pretty sordid stuff.
Another of the things I found most shocking, was the financial history of the early and present day mormon church. Along with the deadly 'Mormon Hand Cart Companies,' and the 'Mountain Meadows Massacre.' There are 'mormon versions' of all these things that don't bear much resemblance to what really happened, so look for the non-mormon versions of these events. The mormon church has a history that is bloody, greedy, and evil.
I was born and raised mormon, and I can 100% promise you that it is a cult that will take all of your money, all of your time, and all of your self esteem.
Me too.I'm definitely skeptical
because of the discrimination, some black mormons created their own church. so its possible there are some black mormons who enjoy it but i dont think they were reconized by the official church before 1973
@@ViteaificationThat's interesting -- I was unaware of this church! Do you know if it ever reintegrated with the larger church or if it remained separate?
There's more than one church that upholds the Book of Mormon as true so that missionary's argument wouldn't be enough to convince me to join his church even if I were convinced of the truthfulness of the BoM.
How does the community respond to those couples with infertility? Do couples try and keep a secret? Do they automatically blame or fault the woman? Just curious since LDS is so "family" focused. Thanks!!
My smart-ass would have been, "dress like the savior? Okay, got it." I would show up the next day in a robe.
The whole dating thing was so interesting. I left at 16 because I felt like they were pressuring me to start dating an 18 year old. It was so creepy, that it soured my whole idea of the church.
How is that creepy? My bf and I are a year and a half apart so a couple of months after we started dating I was 16 and he was 18.
@@danielarejgar because I didn't know him at all. They just sorta started putting us together a lot, and talking to me about marriage. Him and I didn't even go to the same school.
@@peanutpie5042 Ok, to you that was creepy. To me it sounds like one of the tamest things that could happen at the Mormon cult tbh.
@@danielarejgar oh yeah, super tame. It just gave me the ick. My experience in the cult was very short, 12 to 16. It was the change from the kids stuff to the young women's stuff, that really showed how indoctrinated the kids were. I saw how odd it was to be talking about marriage at 16, and they all thought it was the best idea ever. I also wouldn't give testimony so we could play volleyball, and the other girls didn't like me much after that.
@@danielarejgar
It's not really the age difference that I think she is talking about, it's that young girls are not always allowed to decide who to date.
I was born and raised mormon and my father chose who I would date.
I thought I would be safe till I turned 16, but when I was 14 my father 'fell in love' with this super creepy Return Missionary that wanted to 'date' me. So I was forced to go.
I HATED that man. But my father was so mormon brainwashed, and convinced that I was to obey him (because only he had 'The Power of Discernment') that he saw nothing wrong with that.
I gotta add a comment about porn addiction, because I feel this is an area you have probably been sheltered from by the church, and you may find it on the one hand sad (because you're compassionate) but on the other amusing because of what extremes you have to go to. Pretty much all the bad things the church calls additions or tales they say of things that *could* happen to you *are* real, but just way, way waaaaayyyy more extreme before they get to be a problem than the church portrays. Porn addiction is absolutely real, but it is a mental health disorder, as opposed to a physical addiction. Pretty much all types of addiction you can imagine exist, to incredibly weird stuff, because they are all mental health problems. Your definition of basically ruining your life to qualify is a good one and broadly recognised, as is the inability to stop if you wish to. There are people who watch porn *upwards* of 8 hours a day. Yes really. It affects all aspects of their functioning in life. Is it a huge amount of people? Not really. Is it a very tiny number? Also not really? It is hard to estimate but we know it is a thing that happens and it's not incredibly uncommon, someone you know likely knows someone who knows someone who is 'addicted', it's on that order.
Porn addiction is actually an ongoing discussion in particularly US society/culture right now, as it does appear that unhealthy reliance on it has increased, but so has the deliberate marketing targeting and exploitation of men who are susceptible to it as well, since it makes money.
The level to which it happens though has to be *so much* more extreme than the church defines for it to even become a problem that yea, for the average person? Not a problem even worth considering (granted I am 100% in agreement with you on the ethics conversation)
"Wasn't there myself, can't tell you for sure", is honestly the truest indicator that you're too skeptical to fall for religious nonsense ever again.
I love how you, despite all the horrible things the church put you through, stay respectful and level headed in your explanations.
The only rule everyone should follow is the golden rule, "Don't be a dick."
Aka "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you."
My family has the less biblical version that goes “work to reduce suffering”
Loved this! But I do have a slight disagreement with the alcoholism comment. MANY alcoholics are very functional!! Many alcoholics work with you or are your friends and you don’t know. I think the same could be said for porn addictions. Just because someone’s life doesn’t appear falling apart doesn’t mean they are not dangerously addicted to a substance or “activity”.
However I do very much agree, the term “addiction” is not appropriate in most cases I’ve seen where a Mormon is accusing someone of being “addicted”
This part! My brother is an alcoholic and my fiancé is what could be considered a shopping and porn addict. Both of them haven’t “relapsed” in quite a while, but they both appeared very functional. But when you can’t get through the day without a drink, drunk drive, excessively drink every single time you get your hands on alcohol, stole whiskey while underage and have been drinking since you were 12, you’re an alcoholic. When you get strong feelings of compulsion to watch porn, have it constantly playing in the background while doing other activities, spend lots of money on it, have poor time management because you’re busy watching and sneak to the bathroom at work to watch porn, you probably have an issue. Both of them at the peak of their issues were extremely productive and normal. My brother had a big friend group that loved him and was a an incredible employee who got constant raises. My fiancé worked two jobs and maintained a friend group. Addicts don’t have to be obvious!
Anything in this world can be an addiction. And any addiction no matter what that thing is will eventually lead to destruction no matter how big or small. Ive seen first hand the absolute destruction of people, families and friends due to all kinds of addictions including porn addiction. I had a friend once who to me at one time in his life his addiction to porn was so bad he wanted to commit suicide over it...that's ultimate destruction....
I love your videos. I have seen your short-form content and I am so glad YT finally recommended a longer video. As an ex-mo who still lives in Utah, your videos have helped me unpack some of my religious trauma, and they let me know that I am not alone. I have used your videos to help some of my questioning friends understand why I left.
I love your analytical mind so much! You explain it all so well, for me, as a complete outsider to this topic, including the whole mind journey it takes to understand the rules!
My public library has approved my request to purchase your book! I hope other libraries will do the same!!!
I have VERY sensitive nipples. Are your nipples sensitive?
This was only the second time I’ve ever heard the “women should have long hair” thing (I’ve never been Mormon). The only other time was when I was working at a Christian (non Mormon) women’s boutique business. The owner came in one day and saw my hair up (which it almost always is, even now). He (you know it was a he!) told the manager that he didn’t think I “looked feminine enough” with my hair up, and thought “women should always wear their hair down” Well, the manager knew that I love God, but that God gave me quite the mouth when angry, so she didn’t tell me… until it accidentally slipped out. Oh Lordy, the words that came out at the audacity! 😡 I was so loud my ultra-religious deceased grandmother (who ALWAYS wore her hair up) probably blushed in heaven, but I believe she was also laughing! 😁
So sad to know that that one jerk owner wasn’t the only one. 😟 **silver lining - he ran the business into the ground because he wouldn’t listen to any woman (his wife, managers, etc.) about what women want to buy and always chose wrong. 🤷🏻♀️ Karma man! 😄
The Bible does say that women should keep their hair long (as in not cutting it) but not much about specific styles other than not to braid it in fancy ways. So really, a simple updo could be more biblical than having it down and blow dried and curled/straightened or otherwise styled
tbh i will never understand the rule that you have to go to the ward you’re geographically zoned for. i had an awful experience regarding this when my stake did a ward change that separated me from all my friends (who i had been going to church with for at least a decade) and it made it so much harder for me to go especially since the people in my new ward were already friends with each other and didn’t really make an effort to include me or be nice to me. looking back at it, it was definitely an experience that i think led to me starting to struggle with my beliefs but since i was only 16 when it happened, i was still stuck going whether i wanted to or not. it’s such a weird rule too bc wouldn’t it be better if people could just go to the ward they were most comfortable in? i mainly say that bc of my personal experience knowing that i was happier at church when at least someone i was friends with was there too.
I ignored the Coffee thing once I read that coffee was difficult to import to Utah so Brigham Young banned it. Just doesn't apply anymore.
I grew up Mormon and left the church in my early 20s. I’m 54 now and it’s interesting hearing about rules I never knew about back in the day. Laughing loudly and eating meat sparingly are a couple. I wore crop tops and tank tops and regular shorts as a teenager that passed muster with my dad. Looking back, our house was kind of Mormon lite edition, lol.
Thanks for leaving so we didn't have to throw you out. Now you don't have to worry about those "oppressive" rules that stifled your freedom.
The loud laughing was a covenant in the temple. People would say that it was interpreted wrong and now I hear this verbiage was recently removed.
But because the rules and Covenants are so oddly worded people did and still do interpret things differently depending on their comfort but they call it "personal revelation".
@@piperarcher9706 ..."avoid loud laughter"...IN THE TEMPLE...you dullard. Here's some "personal revelation": you're not very bright.
A lot of what she says is waaay over exaggerated. Yes we do call the table in our living room a coffee table. I have eaten a coffee cake.
@@JohnDLee-im4lostop crying John. So embarrassing. Other real people can see this comment.
One rule that puzzles me (and isn't exclusive to LDS) is the hand-wringing over men's hair length. Firstly, long hair was apparently good enough for Jesus et al. Secondly, was the anti-long hair brigade as much of a thing before the 1960s? Edit: I swear every new thing I learn about tithing makes me angrier. However, nothing tops using kids' allowance, birthday money, etc. for tithing. Instant hatred.
Do you have specific questions, because I am a member. I can tell you a lot of what she says is either out of date, or greatly exaggerated.
@@PennesinoTheGreat How does the true word of god end up with a bunch of rituals that keep going 'out of date'? Not trying to be a jerk, it just makes no sense to me.
You might get a chuckle from this. I am a convert to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and believe in tithing. So when I would give my children a dollar they would need to pay a dime in tithing, so I would give them a dime. Then I would give them a penny to pay tithing on the dime. So if I wanted my children to have a dollar I would give them $1.11.
@PennesinoTheGreat you say it's exaggerated, but when you look at BYU, it seems quite accurate. Besides, every church has members that are not upholding every rule, my mom is Christian but never goes to church.
That probably comes from the Bible. It's in one of the Pauline letters (can't remember which one right now) that men are supposed to keep their hair short
Hi Alyssa, I wanted to thank you and the time you spent making this video, it was really interesting and eye-opening. I'm from Italy and we also have Mormon communities and I am becoming really passionate about the Mormon church and the connection between it and the MLM's industry. Thank you for your point of view as an ex mormon. I love your video style
I never understood the brainwashing required for most religious beliefs. It’s like “hi my name is bob and I’m a happy person” then some pastor comes along and says “no, actually you’re just ignorant to how truly unhappy you are. Let me explain why you should be ashamed of of your self and why you need to give me money so I can remold your identity into something that I think is better”.
If your on drugs or something yeah sure maybe you are deceived by you own brain but 99% of the time your fine.
What broke my shelf is when I went to the San Diego temple to do temple work, I was a full tithe payer and didn’t bring my temple clothing and had to rent it. I always thought when you rented clothing it would be free. I thought it was weird because I was paying a couple hundred dollars a month as a poor college student to be worthy to go to the temple. It was $5.00 but it still didn’t sit well with me. Right after I had this experience, the temple worker we met there started to brag that the San Diego temple was one of the most expensive buildings in San Diego and it cost over 20 million dollars, but the church could afford to provide the tithe payers clothing to worship. I stayed in for three more years and stuff like that kept happening and I couldn’t see how a church that was “run by Christ” could be this way.
Uhhh.believe it or not your laying for the rental...because the charge of washing it and replacing them. No money is "MADE" by renting them.
So glad they didn’t make the kids pay for that. I did baptisms for the dead at the San Diego temple so often when I was in YW and I definitely wouldn’t have been able to pay for temple clothes.
@@rdancranston😊
I love your videos Alyssa, they are amazing! Your channel is helping me so much right as I am currently in the process of leaving the church. There are so many crazy things I’ve just never been told until now…
I’m in a strange situation as almost my entire dad’s side of the family has left, while all of my mom’s side are still VERY active Mormons. I’ve been caught in the middle a lot. Your channel is an amazing and honest break from a lot of that! I can’t thank you enough.
💗💗💗
Thank you so much for watching! The beginning of leaving is the hardest part of the process. I hope that you can find peace, and that this journey out is ultimately beautiful and world opening. 💕
Thank you! I’m really looking forward to reading your book.
The "staying steps away from sin" thing very much reminds me of the Orthodox and Conservative Jewish rules of "fencing off" the Torah when it came to keeping kosher or the rules of the sabbath.
When I was in 8th grade, I fell in love with a girl and she loved me back but we kinda flirted awkwardly for about a year before finally becoming girlfriends. She decided to come out to her mormon after school church group and got kicked out, which she wanted to do at that point. But we only lasted a couple weeks because her parents were mormon and she was so scared of someone seeing us together and her parents getting wind of it. She broke up with me in a really bad way and it took me years and years to get over her. I still wonder what could have been if her parents weren’t so awful :(
ur not alone, current 17 yo going through this 🤍🤍🤍
Twelve years ago, after I appeared on the extremely popular History Channel premier about the Maya towns I discovered in the Georgia Mountains, a Utah businessman offered me $100.,000 to change my book to match the date in the Book of Mormon, when Lehi migrated from Mesoamerica to western New York State. I pointed out that the original versions of the Book of Mormon did not mention anything about Mexico or the Mayas. Joseph Smith did not suggest that the Mayas should be added to the Book of Mormon. until after a book about Maya ruins in Mexico by Frederick Catherwood and John Lloyd Stephens in the 1840s. The myth was repeatedly modified over a period of about 50 years until it reached its current form. So, I asked him which version of the Book of Mormon should I match and also why God kept on changing his mind about the Mayas.. The Sounds of Silence .
It seems no one cared 😮. To me this is the most important thing I’ve read. I’m not even Morman. I’m not sure if you’re 100,000 $ richer. I’m assuming you aren’t because you wouldn’t do what you do and write this if you were not a professional with passion for her work. Thank you for sharing this.
@@Reconsidering649 No, I was not even tempted. Once someone sells their soul in a situation like that, there is no way going back.
The sounds of you lying.
Oh, they are so wrong about coffee! Coffee sends me to heaven every time!
I am brazilian and I found your videos because I was curious about Mormom since one of my colleagues in College is mormon but he doesn't talk much about it, in fact he avoids talking about it. Now I know why thanks to you.
For more than 1300 years Muslim men were not allowed to stand while going to the bathroom #1, but they started allowing it in the 1980's.
What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?????
Wow lol
@@mianta55it’s just another example of how religions change doctrine due to societal/cultural expectations, not due to the “word of god” like Alyssa talked about with regards to modesty, race, etc etc.
I sure wish that had been the rule in my house. With brothers and a father that don’t have to clean the bathroom, I would’ve welcomed that rule!
@@mianta55 "What does this have to do with the price of tea in China?????"
Everything... since the discussion is about controlling religions that make arbitrary rules.
Sex addiction and pornography addiction is a real thing that is medically treatable. The same way that overeating and an unhealthy relationship with food can be treated, you can have a unhealthy relationship with porn, masturbation, or sex. I think a lot of religious views make it more intense than necessary.
i’d love for these videos to come out as podcasts!!
Thanks for the vids and shorts 🙏❤️
Porn addiction may not be reconized yet as an addiction as it can be hard to gauge for everyone, but remember that they used to classify homosexuality as a mental disorder, so the leading psychologists or mental health experts can often be wrong on classification.
According to the addiction center concerning porn addiction: While compulsive porn consumption may not be a recognized condition, that doesn't mean it isn't a real issue that can carry serious, and oftentimes negative, consequences.
I worked at a porn theater back in the early 2000's and I can tell you first heand that there were dudes who would check in and spend all day beating it to movies and peep shows, spending a lot of money. I doubt they could maintain a job or a decent relationship, as their addiction or craving crept them in a theater all day.
However, I do know that the LDS church has an insane view on what constitues porn addiction
I think it's like a gambling addiction rather than a substance addiction. Bit it's still an addiction. But like, with gambling it's to do with the adrenaline and thrill that comes from the game of chance and people spend all their savings and go into debt with their family falling apart around them and their mental health ending up becoming so bad as a result that they can't get into work and then the only thing keeping them going is that thrill (it's a pretty nasty cycle). And with porn, the action of masturbating to the porn releases the happy brain chemicals to such a degree that you end up needing to do more and more for the same effect and it becomes harder and harder to cope without it that you end up spending all your waking hours just to satisfy it. It's pretty similar to how some dogs can experience withdrawal symptoms from not being fussed.
It's an addiction, but its not caused by the same thing that the more conventional addictions are caused by so its harder to recognise.
And I think the issue is getting worse because you can access porn for cheaper than you used to be able to. So when gambling addictions were starting to get more recognised as more than just bad spending habits, porn addictions would get swept under because less and less money had to be exchanged due to the rise of the Internet.
Although all that stuff is mostly speculation because I am by Jo means a professional in this, this is just observations and untested hypotheses made from watching my peers and listening to the world around me, and I am not qualified to test this either.
@@bethanybrookes8479 I heavily suspect porn usage is correlated with a lack of deep connection to others.
Now you might say "porn snuck in and replaced genuine connections!" But unfortunately no, I can't speak for the states or anywhere else, but I did look it up my country of canada, divorces started raising in the late 60s once it was legal, and peaked in the 80s, well before the deluge of porn.
Since then divorces have gone down, but so has marriages, and by extension child births.
We know that there's a loneliness epidemic already, and it had nothing to do with porn usage.
As far as I'm concerned there is an oversupply that started to be filled by the porn industry, that happened to coincide with the internet really going mainstream in the late 00s, all to fulfil an *extreme demand*
Want to knock out that demand? Then we'd have to correct societal ills that have lead to such a travesty in how we don't really connect to each other anymore.
I've even looked a bit into the psychology specifically, and although it would have to be its own entire topic, the motivations of some porn consumers absolutely include connecting to the subjects of thier desires.
I was looking for a comment like this. I have seen documentations about porn addiction and other addictions not related to substances and while it is important to point out the nonsense people like these mormons spread, it is also important to not downplay that there still are people addicted to porn. And the people I remember that spoke up about it had no religious background at all.
@@criscroissant2452 It's not just mormons, and it's not just religious thought either. (Nofap communities have been known to have an *atheist* bent apparently.)
But even so, sometimes it seems like the best way to make a sexual deviant is to repress their sexuality first, then once they taste freedom from those sex-negative cultures....they tend to let loose.
I've seen it in myself and many other people.
That or, almost predictably, humans are just that horny by default.
I heard that early on Mormons did drink coffee and even smoked but people got tired of cleaning up after the meetings. I grew up LDS and that’s always what I heard.
I remember some story about people spitting tobacco in church buildings and whatever prophet got fed up and wrote the WOW
I had heard this too. Joseph Smith and his buddies supposedly chewed tobacco and his wife got tired of cleaning up after them so she said no more! Don't know how true this is. I thought it was funny!
@@Mari-go5hcrelatable tbh! I can imagine the wife being like “that’s it! I’m not going to clean up after you anyone!” and then Joseph was like yo homies no more spitting in my house or I’ll be sleeping in the dog house.
Jospeh smith was drinking the day he was killed.
Brigham Young had a distillery in UTAH! So yeah, the rules have always been changing depending on the type of control the leaders wanted to have.
Joseph Smith owned a bar
OK, everything you just said about knowing your body and pleasure is so on point! Wow. I’m really respecting the sincerity of this post.
I’ve learned a lot from your videos and it’s clear you’ve done the work to unlearn old rules. 🎉
I rarely write comments but thank you for your videos! I’m from Russia and I have a lot of Mormon friends whom I used to visit in the US for several months when I was a teenager. I always went to church with them and when I was 14 I was almost converted cuz I liked the people and their way of living. I wasn’t converted cuz I never actually believed in god. I think it’s kind of funny. I liked the way of living, it was nice and wholesome, like meditation but never thought that god actually exists. So I never read the Book of Mormon or visited the church in Russia. But with your videos it’s really interesting to see all the ins and outs of the religion. A lot of things that were happening back then 10 years ago are actually making sense now haha. And it was especially great to know what could’ve happened to me if I actually went to byu like I planned. I’m glad I didn’t😅
I also want to applaud the quality of the videos. They’re my favourites to work to or to do chores. Your videos are my favourite in the podcast-like genre. Thank you for them❤
That's part of why they're doing this. All this happy-family image is there to attract outsiders. Another part is making people believe they're different and better than non-believers
I'm mentally psyching myself up to buy a high waisted bikini with a skirt at thirty 😅
stranger on the internet here but you can do it!! i'm sure you'll rock that bikini
@@deliahhh thank you ❤️
You got this!
Im surprised the church isnt handing out blacklights to girls n telling them "this is a sin detector for a potential husband!! The sin will GLOW in their bedrooms under this holy light!"
I am deeply interested in learning about different religions. I am 76, divorced, I am a Christian, and I don't judge anyone. I feel it is me alone who will have to answer for my life and I thoroughly enjoyed your video. I do have an ex friend who was brought up strict Catholic. We knew each other only through Social Media, but were very close and spoke several times a day. Her husband died, and at the age of about 58, a Morman man she me, got her to go to a meeting of sorts, and within a month she told me she felt very taken good care of by him ad they were getting married. She thought it best if we dropped our friendship, and to this day, I want to understand the deeper reason Kathie felt it best that swe part ways. I'm hoping to learn and understand more. Thank you!
These stories about little little baby kids being taught modesty are crazy because at that age my parents let me run around butt-naked and read anatomy books with detailed descriptions of the reproductive system.
I know that members NOW drink caffeine and they say it's OK. But pre 2000's. It was about the caffeine, herbal tea was ok but black tea wasn't. My dad loved Dr pepper and my mom would begrudgingly buy it for him but would hide it in the cart so others couldn't see it! The rules and the guilt that goes with them, has unfortunately shaped me as a person who constantly worries what other people think of me.
ONG. Same. In my family, australia btw I remember so many instances of going over to my parents friends house for whatever, only for their little kids ( 4 - 6 ) to be butt naked running around the yard. At beaches kids would forget their togs and instead swim naked.
It was just normal to see. Hell, at that age - though my father valued 'modesty' I was still allowed to walk around in my knickers when it was particularily hot.
Its sexualizing the unsexual to think otherwise. Sure for comfortability and sanitary standards, you can't have them in shops doing that. But to make a little kid cover their shoulders/arms, below legs ECT. For what? These are babies. If you see something sexual there, thats a reflection of yourself not the kid.
my parents were similar, my mom was a sex education/family planning teacher back in the 80s! She was a christain but believed in pro-choice and all methods of family planning(so birth control but also no sex but also early reproductive cancer screening, get your sperm count looked at, period health, hormones, adoption, ect!) but the family planning(this was her terminology but this concept has so many names) convos was absent of all religious lingo, so if you were religious, you could still apply it to your self but it was neutral for everyone of all walks of life. Also these convos were meant for everyone puberty aged and up since your reproductive health and life planning starts around then. My mom also studied early childhood development but didn't have a actual degree in sadly but included what she did know in her teachings for people who did plan to become parents. My mom started me young with anatomy books to start this sexual health knowledge path that was instilled in me. My mom rallied for the HPV vaccine in the 2000s and all of my siblings and I were vaccinated as soon as possible and she was so excited about it! many christians and I'm sure other religious groups called it many bad names but I heard it called the whore vaccine to my face once by a mormon! The HPV vaccine is known to reduce chances of so many reproductive cancers, especially for girls and women(!!!!), it was upsetting to hear. I volunteer at a sexual health clinic for college students now and have the joy of explaining internal condoms to them and helping them handle cancer scares and my mom is proud of me lmao
I grew up thinking it was straight up illegal to play outside on Sundays. Now I make it a point to spend my Sundays outdoors lol
I know right?! My parents were always super struct sbout the sabath. No friends over, no music that isnt church related, no physical activities. Eventually i gave up and just laid on my bed all sunday
You sound really sincere in this video compared to other more sarcastic videos. Big hugs to your heart and mind. Thanks for speaking.
I had a Mormon classmate at university. I'm from Poland where almost everyone is Catholic at least on paper so she obviously stood out. I remember being very surprised learning she gave up coffee but would still bring energy drinks to class. I even asked about that because how contradictory and illogical it was to me.
I still find it hilarious that there’s a Dutch bros and Starbucks blocks away from the byu campus 🙄
Mmm my favorite