Do you think Harley-Davidson should put more of their performance parts in the stock motorcycles or continue to leave it up to customer to build the bike they want?
I understand it from an emissions perspective. I’d imagine adding more performance minded items would make it a nightmare to keep them oil cooled/air cooled long term.
I don't think they can put performance parts in the motors and Jack the horsepower up beyond what the stock when shipped at because they would get so unreliable. There would be warranty issues up the wazoo.
I like the fact Harley engines aren’t disposable, but that comes with the price of sticking to the cam in block design. If they were to use a magazine with gears to operate the ohc and use a heat transfer system located on the sides of the bike where hard bags are usually mounted I believe they could have it both ways. But I will never purchase a chain or bevel driven ohc motorcycle
It would appear the Motor company is going to try a bit higher end package with these 117 motors, better exhaust and suspension from the factory for 2022. The price point may be deal breaker, time will tell.
I'm anxious to see how these 131's Harley's putting in the bikes perform. Isn't that what Harley's doing on the 114 build into a 131 ? I've toofered my bike into the bike I enjoy, I can't imagine the price tag on a 131 bagger, my pockets will never run that deep.
That's the truth for sure. Personally, I usually go with aftermarket parts rather than the screaming eagle parts. I do like Harley's chrome parts though. It's always good quality plating and they stay pretty for a long time. I enjoy personalizing my bikes. I usually have a vision of what I'd like the bike to be and work towards that goal. I get a lot of satisfaction in building something unique that suits me. I can see where people who don't have the time or skill or inclination would buy an off-the-shelf performance model. I think they should continue making them both ways. Something for everyone.
I like the Harley parts myself too, they are really nice but the SE parts just don't make the power the aftermarket parts can make. I couldn't afford to customize my bikes and do engine work if I didn't do it myself, labor rates are not cheap!
Harley/ SE needs to walk the line with the EPA, aftermarket can just print "not for highway use" on them box. Knowing good end well, at will only be used on them streets.
I have no problem making my Harley my own. I believe it’s in Harley, to let the customer build his/her bike as they wish. It will be a sad day if Harley ever takes that from us. In my opinion anyway. Yes.. it is pretty expensive, but when you do all the wrenching, it sure is one hell of a feeling seeing, and hearing the bike run after a good digging into the cam chest. I just did a full stage two on my 2020 softail. I just did the S&S 465 cam, and screaming eagle pro oil pump and cam plate. I’m a car mechanic, and this was the first time wrenching on a Harley. My dad swore up and down I was gonna blow the engine up. I lol! I told him I’m a mechanic Dad! When all was buttoned up, and filled with fresh oil, I fired that puppy up, and son of a betch roared to life! Best feeling ever!!! Keep up the great work GixxerFoo!!
That's awesome! Harley's are very easy to work on, if you can work on a car motor a Harley is nothing. Literally the same concept as a pushrod V8, if you can find TDC you can do anything you want on the motor!
About everybody does . That's because no one has to carry parts for their products past 10 years old ..even Honda is stopping production on parts ten years old ..so what? Every time you make a negative comment about Harley-Davidsons when they're doing the same thing everybody else is doing you cost Harley Davidson money... You want to see them make a better product quit running them into the goddamn ground
@@thompsonjerry3412 good mechanics working cannonball Harley-Davidson terre Haute Indiana or they don't work at all.... It takes skilled Factory trained mechanics to tune a Harley-Davidson on the inhouse dynojet dynamometer... And every franchise Harley-Davidson dealer is required to have one
HD generally stands for Hundred Dollars. Every time you walk into a dealer to buy parts everything seems to cost a hundred dollars. Very much a parts price rip off.
Yup. Fall in love with a $25K-$30K bike on the showroom floor and "do the deal". Then walk over to the parts department and open the P&A catalog and start picking expensive parts and accessories "you're gonna want". Blacked out or chromed this, painted to match that. Air cleaners, air cleaner covers, exhausts, "cool", better matching foot boards and pegs, handlebars, grips, clutch and brake levers, master cylinder covers, wheels and tires and brake rotors. Luggage. Last, but not least, "big bore kits", cams, tuning devices. As you said, there is no end. Next thing you know, that $25-$30K is now $10K more. But hey, you can just write it all into the loan LOL. I will say that, in the last two or three years, HD has factory equipped some of the touring models at least, in forms that require much less changing. But they do charge a commensurate increased amount for these "Special" models as well.
You ain't kidding, you'd think those blacked out Specials were gold plated with the price jump from say the RG/SG to RG/SG Special. I guess you do get the 114 instead of the 107 with the Special and a better stereo but dang were talking about 5 grand.
Well when the bike doesn't change drastically year to year it makes the guy's bike who's been wrenching on his the past 20 years, just as desirable and maybe even more so than a newer one, like shovelhead ffej. I remember saying to him a year or so ago "nobody is going to pay 10 grand for a 20 year old bike" and I can still smell him fuming over my complete ignorance, because I am a newbie to the HARLEY DAVIDSON world. I'm learning from all the techs here on UA-cam just how satisfying owning a HARLEY DAVIDSON is. It took me forever (14years) to decide on which Harley Davidson was going to be mine and it's the 2016 Pro Street Breakout in Black. it already had 585 cams and Bassani Pro street pipes, and cracking the throttle on this beast is like handling a stick of dynamite with a short fuse, precision is a must! AND THEN there is the RIDING GEAR, and there's no better fun than picking out "your HARLEY LOOK". I have always looked for an identity that makes sense to me, and nobody makes life better than Harley Davidson riders.
My 2007 CVO springer softy (copper canyon red) had an oil cooler fitted by a past owner, so I had the dealer fit a Screamin Eagle oil pump….. which meant while they were in there they may as well fit an SE cam plate (comes with pump), cam followers/lifters, push rods and inner cam bearings! Oh well, while I’ll never get my money back, at least the engine is set up for the foreseeable future. Digital dipstick puts the oil at 217 deg after a long run and 42lbs oil pressure cold/ 25lb hot.
I'll stick with my old evos thank you. They're both bought and paid for, run so smooth, and don't look that bad. I tell people with the high power bikes that I'll just follow you, that way when you crash you'll have a witness.
Lol that's a good one, I have to remember that one. Nothing wrong at all with an Evo, plenty of torque and they are very reliable! Can't beat paid for either!
Other things to consider when adding performance parts:. Added engine heat; longevity of the engine; gas mileage; loudness; rideability. Harley-Davidson has to balance these things on a production motorcycle. The consumer gets to choose which things matter the most.
So what. That’s their job to deliver something good for us. That is all BS bro. Totally disagree with your comment. They can figure it out, they just choose not to.
Three years ago I bought an 02 Dyna Low Rider which was in immaculate condition but still had the spring loaded cam train tensioners which I replaced with the Screaming Eagle hydraulic tensioners and I replaced the whole charging system due to a fault that developed. I have also upgraded the rear shocks and replaced the dual seat with a nice Saddleman solo. So, I've corrected some mechanical issues with Harley parts and with aftermarket and have made this bike my own. I paid $5000 for the bike and have spent around $2000 for mechanical and style upgrades and not only love the way my bike runs and looks but am really happy and satisfied with it. As far as I'm concerned this bike which now can carry bags for light touring and that can hit 110 mph on the interstate as well as do 75 easily at 2700 rpm all day long is everything I could ever want from a motorcycle. I'm pleased with the way Harley does things and appreciative of the performance OEM parts (when they're available) as well as the huge aftermarket support for my bike. What I don't like is the discontinuance of parts from the factory and the fact that dealerships refuse to work on older bikes, even though I do understand why they do that. Thank God for the busy Harley forums and the vast knowledge base out there amongst other Harley riders. UA-cam is a lifesaver at times as well because, not being a mechanic, I need all the help I can get. I also have a great independent Harley mechanic that lives and breathes Harley and only charges 45/hr labor and lets me work with him on my jobs so that I can learn. Wish I hadn't spent all those years riding jap bikes before I finally came to my senses and bought my Harley.
05 Superglide here TC88, Freedom Performance exhaust system & Cobra 2000 fuel enhancer are my only mods & honestly it’s all I need, this bike runs strong, no need to waste $ on motorwork & have never had any issues
Harleys are very reliable with exhaust, air cleaner and a tune with the stock motors. Where I see a lot of issues develop is internal engine work without the supporting parts.
Tomatoe tomahto. Harley Davidson is a culture that a lot of people want to be a part of. For some reason many people think that the bike will make them someone they’re not. When I go to the dealership to get something I need/want I always press the odometer buttons on a bunch of the used bikes and most of them have very little mileage on them. Usually under 10k miles. I suppose there could be a lot of reasons for that so we can only guess why, health, expense, upgrade or whatever. My time on Harleys goes back to the 60s and that’s all I’ve ever owned. I do what my expertise allows me to, brakes, clutches, exhaust and bolt ons but no longer want to dig into the engine. My current ride is a 15 road glide Rushmore with 60k on it and I had the dealer do the 117 big bore, ported and freshened up the stock heads along with the SE billet cam plate and high pressure oil pump. I went this route because they’re all Harley parts and engineered for the bike plus I get the warranty. I dropped it off and paid $5,500 when I picked it up. It did come out pretty good with 118/124. So I guess the point is in keeping with this particular video is that expensive is a state of mind, and pocket. If you want something and you can afford it then it’s worth it. I WANT a Lamborghini but I can’t afford it. Harley guys are Harley guys and posers are posers.
Yes, the Harley tax. Over here, most Harley's are left alone, they arrive at the dealer and leave that way and I think that's how most customers want them (there's also how modifications can blow up insurance rates). But Harley's lack of diversity in their range is something that has hurt them the most over the years when it's the same bike as last year and the year before that.
I imagine it's hard to modify a bike where your at with the emissions regulations getting more stringent. If it's loud they know it's not stock, Screamin Eagle exhaust sound good and they aren't that loud. They are emissions compliant, they don't give you a huge horsepower gain but they more than well make up for that with the torque gains they have.
A great part of this is like you said......EPA. Brand new, with a recent used purchase, my gripe isn't so much performance, but having to deal with the tensioners! We could by just about any Japanese bike and never have to shell out for updating something like that.
Here's an idea..HD should allow it's customers to start ordering the performance parts they want in a bike and have it assembled at the factory with those upgrades. Ford is doing that right now with allowing customers to build a truck the way they want it from the factory. Of course a higher price tag will come with that but your going to spend it either way. Just a thought 🤔
Honestly I think they made the Evo too reliable and in some ways it hurt dealer business. Having worked for dealers myself too, were trying to screw people but we gotta keep the lights on.
I rode a Gold Wing for two years after I hit a deer with my HD Electra Glide standard. After the Milwaukee 8 came out I traded the Lead Wing in. No regrets! Except for the Rain Sock. Why did they design and produce a motorcycle that needs an umbrella over the air cleaner. It seems so rididulous.
I try to use original Harley parts and keep them as stock as I can since I'm looking for longevity not speed. My 72 FLH is bone stock is about the same configuration as when it rolled off the showroom floor I've had it 35 years.
Hahaha, I loved your comment about Pandora's box. I have not been able to close that box since I've opened it. Would be interesting to do a profit margin on the sale of parts. I have some butt buddies that feel as though Harley builds them at the factory with the intentions of people buying aftermarket/performance upgrades. (Conservatively) I have $5,000 in a 2000 twin cam. But I find so much enjoyment out of working on the scooter I don't look at the dollar amount. It's a fun bike to ride that I enjoy immensely. Unknowingly I went through a rear tire in just over 2 months. So I've been practicing on slowing my roll on the throttle. LoL Always, always enjoy your channel thanks for the upload
You really hit the nail on the head. The enjoyment factor plays a huge role for many of us. Buying a metric would be far a far cheaper endeavor but the enjoyment of turning wrenches and skinning the tops of your hands would be gone.
Thank you, I appreciate it! Harley saw years ago people going to the aftermarket and that's when the Screamin Eagle factory performance parts line came in. I'm the same way, I love working on the bike feeling the difference each upgrade makes on the bike. Profits must be pretty good on parts and accessories, dealer employees are usually given something that's about a 50% discount off retail.
@@carlbruhn1772 I couldn't agree more. My entire family is into motor scooting so I've been around it my entire life. With that being said when a brand new Rider comes and ask me for advice. I'll tell him, get ya a metric bike, ride it for a year or two see if you're going to stay in it and if you are, upgrade into a Harley. It'll save you a lot of money. I'll never have to experience it but I am told, to do all three holes on a fluid change with a new Harley will cost you in the neighborhood of $450 (at Harley)
My priority is reliability. I bought a 2013 Electra Glide Ultra Limited October 2021. This March I am having HD of Asheville install a Dark Horse Compensator, Baker Manual primary tensioner, S and S Cam plate, oil pump, hydraulic cam chain tensioner, quickie push rods, and Jagg fan assisted oil cooler. All these parts I have in my possession now. Damn supply chain issues are frustrating. I have to research best wireless interface with the cb and radio.
Reliability goes a long way, even with performance parts when it's done right the reliability goes with it. The supply chain issues are ridiculous, it's dang near impossible to get anything right now.
The great thing about HD it is the motorcycle for people who like to wrench their ride and plan to keep the bike for years. If you are not that type of biker you can just go out and buy a new one.
Thank you! I would just like to have the take off parts from the dealers! They just throw those in the scrap bin, I could retire off just the scrap stock parts lol.
They do offer a "high performance" model its their CVO. I mean you can get roadglide then you can get a roadglide special with the "next level" performance from there you get in to a CVO.. Its like buying a plan Jane V6 Camero or buying a V8 Camero then you empty you pockets for the "Red Line" edition. The way I see it Harley doesn't do any thing the "Big Three" doesn't do. It's just that the spot light is on them.
The CVO does have a bit bigger engine but they don't put any of the performance parts in it. You get a little better set of heads which does have bigger valves and some more cubic inches. But other than that the bottom end is all stock factory components.
Just bought a road glide after 30 years of metric. First thing I said is this thing is a slug even at a cruise. Old school, old technology. It has a screaming eagle kit, I guess.
If they were to offer a way (special ordering process, SE Performance) to have the various Stage Kits installed at the factory, so that when the customer's new bike get's delivered to the HD Dealership, that would "take away" a lot of business ($$$) from said Dealership's Service Dept. Service Dept. would then be reduced to performing mostly routine maintenance, warranty repairs, non-warranty repairs, and installation of accessories (unless accessories could also be specially ordered & installed at the factory). Service Dept. could also install aftermarket products & accessories.
They had a similar program to that through HD-1 Factory Customization. The factory would send the bike with the color you specified, chrome or black engine and the handle bar option you chose. The dealer would install all the selected accessories you opted for, I believe the dealer got the credit on the accessories and you paid the dealers labor charge. It was a really neat program and you could build the bike online, that's how I got mine in 2016 with a color very rarely stocked at the dealers.
Its also these days to do with emissions laws, they are very strict in the EU/UK and from what I heard places like California USA, you start adding performance then you add more pollution and then they can't sell them.
Well the engines have a deep and basic design flaw. That's left over from the 1920s. So if they crank the power up right out of the box from the factory to keep up with similar displacement motorcycles. They're going to be even shorter lived and even less reliable.
This is my exact argument for Harley. In no way could any manufacturer make ONE bike that fits all. And when it comes to riding comfort is key then performance (IMO). One of my bikes is a ‘97FXDL came with mid controls and low bars. Those are the first things I changed. Show me another manu that has the supply chain to do ANYTHING you want to a 24 year old bike… As far as price goes, I’m going to look at ‘00 sporty for $1500 today… So you can find a Harley from $1500 to 50k and everywhere in between Something for everyone ✌🏼
When I had an '07 Street Bob with the 96 it was just fine without upgrades. A 2008 Street Glide with a 96 was just fine for touring New Mexico. Now a 2018 Lowrider 107 seems just fine to me. I remember Lemmy's Revzilla review on the 2017 Road King when he said the 107 was too much engine for the stock frame. I am confused about the need for bigger engines a 14 year old frame.
I agree. Opening that HD catalog is high risk and should come with a warning. I like Harley but I still think they are already over priced on the showroom floor. Can you imagine what they would cost with "performance" parts built in.
Here in Ontario, Canada most aftermarket parts can be bought online and sent to our doors. HD parts can only be bought and picked up at the dealership. Thats a hassle. They loose MUCH business doing this. They loose mine.
Some of SE stuff is crap anyway, (chain driven cams), the aftermarket offers a plethora of parts that are competitively priced and often times cheaper than the SE catalog. Buy stock and do it yourself...if you ride it you should be capable wrenching it as well!
I agree with you and wish I had done this with my sporty when I bought it new but I was a babe in the woods so to speak. I’m planning a couple aesthetic upgrades but overall I’m happy with my bike the way it is.
I tend to leave Screamin Eagle parts alone, as it has been my experience that the parts don't last much beyond the warranty period. The aftermarket covers most performance parts one could want.
Road glide and street glide ST should have at least a 120 or 122 inch engine. True big inch high performance. Putting it in class by itself. Not just a cheap CVO.
And why not the 131R ? You can’t tell if they offered this right out the gate that there would not be some who’d buy it. After all the work I put into my bike ( the 150/150 club) I could have just bought a road glide with the 131R ( but not in SoCa )
Not related to this video but I'll ask anyway. Just bought a 2018 Heritage 114. I heard that the 2017 M8 107 had sumping issues. Is this the same problem for the 2018 114?
The 2018 had the same oil pump, but oddly it really only seems to be an issue with the touring platform and not on the Softail bikes. It's a possibility but I haven't really seen it on any Softails.
While it is true that Harley Davidson's don't change much from model year to model year... But soon after they are sold it is hard to find two "identical" bikes. I know a lot of Harley owners that have spent big $$$ customizing their bike before the first oil change.
Like this channel a lot! Just want to point out that in terms of actual performance on the road, bikes over 100 hp are 1) not really necessary for any good reason, 2) not really worth the additional cost for most riders, and 3) not very practical for someone that actually want to ride them. They’re great for guys that don’t care about money, traffic laws, or living to a natural age and just want to brag about it at the bar and to their friends or on social media. What most riders want is a machine that will get them where they’re going in a comfortable and reliable manner and deliver a great riding experience. Unfortunately, between the press/media and all of the technical BS we seem to have lost sight of those simple facts…it’s easy to talk s**t online, but another matter entirely when it involves putting your ass on the line on the street…just sayin’.
Right at 100 horsepower is a great place to be with a Harley, now torque up to 120 is a real nice sweet spot on these bikes. That's what you're going to feel rolling on out of a corner with these bikes. Very well said!
I use aftermarket for performance parts. Always get more power and sometimes even save a few bucks. However it would be nice to order one already done out of the factory.
Frankly, Harleys should be manufactured without air cleaner, exhaust, or handlebars. Choose those parts upon delivery! That stuff ends up in a scrap bin more often than not.
I would love to haul off the scrap bins of stock parts for Harley-Dealers at no cost to them, I could retire off the amount of stock parts that get sold to scrap.
Hey GixxerFoo, this story is true, very true indeed. My guess is though, that HD will provide their bikes just a little more powered now since even HD sees the end of combustion engines coming. So basically they're walking the walk to sell their bikes in a heavy competitive market, and they therefore will have to upgrade their bikes to stay of any importance in the horse power race which is going on. The fact that combustion engines are coming to an end very soon (Global Green-deal) and the fact that even HD want to continue to survive after the Green-deal has taken place, will motivate them not just to increase the power in their engines but probably stop selling the basic motorcycles and start selling only their most expensive top models (CVO?) for an increasingly lower price, just to make sure they'll keep their share of the market. What we all are waiting for is the development of Harley Davidson Motorcycles to run on Hydrogen, since Hydrogen (H2) will be one of the alternatives next to the synthetic fuel which is in development by Audi and Porsche in cooperation with Exxon Mobile. It is to be expected that Synthetic fuels are going to be limited available and very pricey per unit (gallon or liter), so the Hydrogen ICE (Internal combustion Engine) is more likely the solution we are waiting for.
It's going to be interesting to see how they survive the electric future that looks unavoidable. Live Wire didn't exactly go over very well but we'll see!
leave the power low, and they should have a training wheel pkg for new riders. you know the ones, yea the ones wearing EVERY clothing accessory that will fit them from the show room floor. the ones that kill the bike at the first 12 stop lights they come to. the ones that come to a curve in the road and slow down to almost a complete stop. Yes to much power will kill to many newbie's so it's best for those of us that know what we are doing to do our own HP increase. Thanks for the Video
Open to opinion, but the rocker ticking and first gear clunking could be fine tuned a bit. I would like some performance parts installed at factory than we have the warranty for sure. While I ride in the slow lane for wind therapy mainly, nice to have the HP on the freeway without stupid taigate cagers breathing down our neck.
Guess I’m just lucky. 65 mph on my 2012 King is all the faster I really care to go and find the 103 stock set up quite adequate. I do the pup pup pup pup with my lips if I need additional sound affects while being able to hear what’s around me as well. I know what loud pipes sound like. So I’m all good and glad that Harley provides a platform for those that ain’t.
Nothing wrong with that at all, the stock bike really does have good torque. Even stock I still like to flash a improved stock map which puts some more fuel in the bike and makes it more responsive, not to mention cools it down a bit.
People still ride Evos and Shovels as dailies, if people are buying these 2021 bikes and saying they still dont have enough power, I dont think the bike is the problem XD
I don’t they can ship them out of the factory with the stage kits. The stock set up is for it to pass EPA standards, they offer Screaming Eagle Kits as after/post ownership upgrades.
Every time I buy a Harley, I start with changing the exhaust, intake, get a tuner and a torque cam. Up to now, I’ve traded every other year. I do that each time. However, I am thinking this time about going to a stage 3 on my current bike and keeping it while I buy a CVO for special occasions.
I think it is right to let the customer dictate how they want their bike to perform and how much they are willing to spend. Keeps the customer "sticky" to the brand for sure.
I wanted one until I noticed all of this . I refuse to spend 20k on a bike just to turn around and add 10-14k in upgrades and led lights and what not .
@@GixxerFoo I do think the low rider S is worth it . You get a lot of bang for your buck . I wanted a road glide but I couldn’t get myself to part with 22-29k then having to do a lot of upgrades. I also can’t believe they put a 114 in a 14k bike but you get a 107 in a 22k road glide standard. That blows my mind .
They can do both keep a base and offer performance models people try to bash H D but auto manufacturers do the same thing with their performance I own a mustang and when you want more performance get ready to spend yeah Harley is expensive but you also buying into the culture ,following what ever you want to call it and I love it I owned a kaw loved it but it’s something about H D and I never saw anyone with a kaw,Honda etc tattoo ijs
To me it's the cast cam plate, oil pump setup that should be thrown out the window. I think it would be worth it if they included billet and higher pressure and volume right out of the box. Also don't skimp on the cranks. True and weld those suckers and use premium bearings to add even more longevity to these engines. Oh, and of course, Why use the INA bearings when the Torringtons are much better for the cams. Harley, please stop trying to keep costs down at the expense of quality basic components! I'd pay more upfront for these upgrades that aren't just for performance but longevity and peace of mind!
They've always done this & always will, so you can fork out thousands more customizing the crappy stock bike...my almost stock twin cam 88 won't even do a full 100 mph...why can't a 1450 cc engine achieve 100 mph without hotrodding it, when I have a stock Honda 600 that'll do more than that? They've always loved giving people screw jobs...& we keep coming back for more...I've actually bought 3 over the years, & the only one I never had to customize or beef up was the '08 CVO Electra Glide I had...but I still had to do a lot of repairs on it...they make some of the most beautiful bikes on the market, but the 'quality' just isn't there & never has been...this twin cam is the last one I'll ever buy...if I ever need another bike, it'll be a Kawasaki Vaquero...Harley won't ever get any more of my money after this one...if they don't change this, they'll eventually go out of business when their loyal fan base dies off...younger riders simply don't want these overpriced boat anchors...
The Kawasaki Vulcans are the absolute best value in the cruiser market out there today. You look at everything you get for well under 20K and it's very hard to argue with!
Yep...& you can literally buy 2 of them brand new & fully loaded off the showroom floor for the price of one stripped down HD touring bike...I love the way HDs look, but I hate the company's practices...
My bitch is you should be able to order a new ride with a factory hot rod engine. What even you want. Stage 4 - 103 or stage 4-5 131. And on and on. Buying a new ride and then having to buy basically half of a new engine is total BS. This ST is a start, Great content, Have blessed day man. cheers.
I like the new ST and it's a great start, I would love to see it come with a 131 rather than having to spend another 6500 for a complete crate engine. By the time you had a dealer tear your motor down to install the 131 kit you'd be in it about 6500.
i dont think " performance parts" are necessary untilll its time to rebuild completely. instead i focus on making the bike comfortable ie new seat bars ect. but more important for me is getting the most mile out of my bike before that which means fixing all the shit parts first. cam plate oil pump and cooler opening up the bike so it won't sump so intake and crank breather. on the primary side compensator and chain tensioner. that way when you do rebuild you've already have the " while im in there parts". i put on about 35k a year on a bike so i dont want loud pips and i dont need more power than my 103 twin cam has. what i need is a better suspension and just a more comfortable ride. thats wher i would put my money in my bike befor you get to that 80k mark. then when you rebuildvyou engine you can govforvbigger jugs new pipes intake cam allvthat shit and then your build is so much more satisfying. youve brought your tired ol bike back to life. and it didnt kill your piggy bank..... if you do it yourself.
Doing all of it yourself is key! Investing in suspension is one of the best things you can do, I have never heard anyone regret investing in the suspension!
@@GixxerFoo anything beat harleys 12 $ shocks. i didnt do the front end because i fall in the democrat of the rider weight Harley builds bikes for im about 175 lbs so but even cheep shocks are better than those air shocks.and change your fork oil people ! in my case the 10w is fine but if you are a " big bonned individual" you might want to go up to 15w.
I have a new 21 Street Glide Special. I’m considering adding the torque came before the 60 days passes. I also wanted to change the lower rocker box cover to black. Since they will have to pull the tank off etc for the rocker box cover would it be better to use solid push rods if possible? Also should I do anything else withe the cam plate etc that you mentioned while they’re all ready “In there”? Thanks again for all of the great content.
@@justinhampton2216 I thought about that. It just doesn’t sound good. Even with the slip ons that I added. It sucks being held hostage by Harleys warranty. I even considered buying a third party warranty that would cover aftermarket parts. This is definitely the first vehicle of any type where I was looking forward to the warranty ending. Thanks for the input.
Well the question of out of the box performance or build your own. You’re basically speaking to two sets of buyers with this. Just like in the automotive industry, me being old as dirt, I remember the muscle car era and the aftermath. Not everyone could afford the 72 SS Chevelle with the “pass every thing but a gas station” 454 in it, but they might be able to but the small block version and as time goes on and job promotions happen, they start beginning to be able to do certain mods that allow them to get to near where they first wanted to be. Although the cloned SS isn’t as valuable as the true one, it is to them. Same as with bikes. The price tag of a new bike is what pushed me to buy a 20 year old Electra Glide. I could afford it, it had relatively low miles, and looked phenomenal. Now, I can start picking up parts to build it the way I want, but more than likely I’m just leave it be and just enjoy it. But, because I didn’t spend multiple tens of thousands on the purchase of a comparable, yet newer model, I monetarily have the choice. The CVO’s and nicely tricked out bikes are nice, but in the end, it still only gets you from point A to point B. They getting there in style…..that can be added on for far less than bought from the factory. At least for me. But if you have the $$$ and don’t want the hassle of turning wrenches or waiting for parts, knock yourself out. Just remember the bike/car/boat/house is just a reflection of the owners personality.
That's very true, yeah not everyone has 50K to get a CVO with a 117. Lol I know I don't, but I can do is buy a nice clean older Harley and tear it down myself and start sourcing some performance parts. A lot of people really feel for the price of a Harley they should put a hotter cam in and get some more power out of them right off the show room floor.
Best explained video on this subject. Harleys are like jeeps n hot rods! You make it your own. No they are not performance machines so making that comparison is silly. They are premium motorcycle the new low rider s and st are on par with the market for premium bikes. Ktm 1290 super duke right thier at 20gs As is the bmw s1000rr and multiple Ducati and even special edition japanese sports bikes. Kawasaki h2 is 29g's . So if performance is what your after buy one of them. You really can't beat harly fit n finish. Most of us buy harley because of the name! The finish! And the feel. They can be wonkey feeling at first but they grow on you really quickly. Some simple suspension upgraded. Seat/bars and stage 1 or 2 and you can really have a very spirited bike. If you want more than a good cruiser. In my opinion these new st line bikes are for those of us that love the harley look n feel but want more performance stock. Especially those of us in CA were everything is illegal. These are performance versions of Harleys not really performance bikes in comparison to the competing market. Becuase harley doesn't havnt to compete no matter who aims at them. They should! That's for sure. I personally don't find the st road/street gluids worth the price for what (I) would built with say just a standard or special. But he'll look at the cvo.. the type of person who buys that is the kind that likes talking about the price. Yes Harleys can be underwhelming in stock form performance wise. But that's not what thier about. So the comparison is dumb. And they are premium like it or not. And they are in a competing price range for a premium bike. People don't go this crazy over not being able to afford a new top of the heap truck. If you can't afford a st get a 2nd job or buy a standard instead. Live within your means. You can barely buy a new car for less than 25 grand a crummy economy one. So stop trying to get a luxury bike for less. And last buy not least more engine options wouldn't hurt. All I mean is a larger displacement revolution motor available in all of thier bikes for those who think hp and rpm is what they want. Let them ride around like teenagers at 8grand rpm If they want
I gotta admit I am pretty excited about the new ST bikes and the 117 in them. It's a really good direction, you could get a base SG or RG but you're looking at 2500 in suspension and then getting into the engine. Arguably you could do that and still be under the 30K of the new ST's but you won't have the finishes.
I’m ok with the performance upgrade options. I’m not ok with the sorry build quality of items such as the pressed crank. It’s simply lousy machine work by the MoCo that’s not acceptable.
Harley Davidson puts out a perfectly good bike in stock form. People have different ideas about what motorcycling is. Some people are touring oriented. Some are performance oriented. Some are customized oriented and some are all about the biker image. Whatever your preference, Harley Davidson will sell you whatever you need to achieve your goal.
Over the last 22 years I only did ride two air cooled Standard Electra-glides. Did ride thru seventeen countries with these stock bikes and counting. Never needed a so-called 'update' to make my bike more unreliable, and never needed a powerfull showbike. Chrome wound bring you home. 😁
I have a old Road King classic with the TC 88 and dont have any plans on increasing performance. Rather spend on reliability if anything. Lets face it a bagger like my Road King will never be any crouch rocket so why bother trying to make it something it isnt? Id rather just buy a proper crouch rocket as a second bike if i was inclined for that.
Every other manufacturer gives you more right out of the box. And in my opinion some of the other manufacturers also have just as good fit and finish. I like Harley but it's not 2010 anymore.
@@GixxerFoo agreed , I'm happy they're starting to step it up. But let's be honest some of these bikes have technology that Yamaha , was doing almost 20 years ago .
this topic kind of goes along with a question i was going to ask. Harley has been slowly going bigger and bigger bore. when do you think they have gone far enough/ far as they can go ? to me 114 is big enough. they should just refine the engine now. i rather have Timkin bearings and a concentric flywheel than a 117. or like on the ST models shocks that dont suck ! lol. most bikes seem to be stopping at 1800 cc or close. a 114 is just a little over that. for those that want more they can go aftermarket. those that want reliability can keep it stock. i have no problem with them leaving out HP. when they leave known issues instead of fixing them is what i hate. issues you wont know till you crack the case. just adding a plug on the flywheel like S&S does would help. plus tighter quality on the flywheel being out of round. or adding a better/longer warranty on parts with known issues like the flywheel/sumping if your bike is still stock. just my thoughts. good vid
Thank you, I appreciate it! King of the Baggers has done a lot of good development, they are now selling the same shocks for the baggers they use on the race bike. Harley claims the 131 engine for the street when you add the new billet cam plate is only 3 race specific parts shy of what they run in the race motor. A company called Leading Egde is making a 151 cubic inch M8 engine kit so not telling where it will stop.
No matter how much performance Harley includes, people are going to want just a little bit more. My preference would be that Harley put in the best parts possible for the parts that are included (flywheel, oil pump, cam plate, etc). People should be able to expect their motorcycle to commonly last 150,000 miles.
My 20 Breakout has right at 30k in it. I know that she's over-priced, but I don't care. She's mine. I look at it as a reward for years of discipline. She's got more than enough power to make me smile every ride.
Buying Your own custom bike from factory or through the dealer is Harley's niche for sure. Now that they don't carry a huge range of bike on the floor they should become an accessories store. As im the bulk of their shop space should be stoked with custom parts. The dream world haha. Where you wonder around and dream up your bike from the parts on the shelves. Sure theres 3rd party suppliers etc but people are lazy and would prefer a 1 stop shop. HD need to shift focus a little more in this area.
Harley-Davidson leaving out their quickshifter for the 2022 Pan America Special. Its a Screamin Eagle add on. This is standard with other adv bikes in the same class.
I personally think part of it is because if you increase its state of tune then you have to maintain that. Longevity will be longer in stock state of tune. HD makes faster bikes these days regardless. My old pans and shovels aren't gonna keep up with these new machines. Hell the speed limit is 85 mph here in Az out in the desert, 55 to 65 in phx area. HD can easily do that . If I want to go faster than that I would get a gixxer or a busa!
Yeah those Shovels get a bit upset with you if you run them at 65 to 70 for long periods lol. They were built when the federal speed limit was 55 and they will do that all day long without complaint.
@@GixxerFoo my 71 flh electraglide is an old fashioned stroker . Went fron 74 inches to 85. Downside is the stress on the rods. Less RPM ass well. I have never gone over 75mph with the old bike . I have a couple of panhead chops. Again 75 mph is about the most . 09 dyna street bob is my daily ride . It just starts and goes.
I'm Not the one to ask, i built 2 Monster Harley's performance wise and the Reliability went right out the window, and my last 4 HD's other than a stage 1 i left ALONE !! and frankly i'm much happier
Lol there is a fine line on building a Harley when it's too much. you make a performance Harley and have it be reliable. It just takes a lot to do and you pretty much have to start from the crank up and make zero compromises.
@@GixxerFoo one of my builds was an 89 1200 sportster where i used a lot of Buell parts, and Hot Heads Brand heads and a paucho hardtail frame, it was a Real Screamer, but when i rode it on long trips 250-350 miles i had to do inventory on what broke, and each time i would try to upgrade the broken part. Then i did a 2003 FXDL with a Jims 120ci and it was a little more dependable, but also had it's issues, my last 4 harley's i left stock for the most part and trouble free.
in my opinion I think harley almost needs to keep going the performance route, as well as a massive price adjustment. I love my harley but it was impossible to justify the new harley price tag. A good example is I bought a 20 year old harley for only 3k less than a new Japanese cruiser.
@@GixxerFoo 30k plus without RDRS $1,100.00. Plus ($800.00) acquisition fee on website, $650 shipping/destination charge and my dealership gets $1,000.00 no matter what. Add tax you are well over 36k!!! No wonder people keep their bikes and modify after a few years!! Love my Harley but when you get to that level????
I think HD had to respond with the ST lineup due to the increased demand of performance baggers/ low riders etc. I know after I looked at what HD was offering in their stage kits vs what I could do w/ aftermarket and I went 100% aftermarket for more performance- WAY more bang for the buck.
when you build bikes as heavy as a tractor, you need a tractor engine to move them.it dont help when the riders weigh nearly as much as their bikes.im surprised they dont have air brakes.
It sucks that if you want more from your harley....you have to dig deep into your pockets!....but at the same time I like it because everyone can make a harley that is theirs!...chances are no one else will have one like yours!!😉👍....great video!...stay safe out there!!😎👍🤙👍🤙🇨🇦
Thank you! Harley performance ain't cheap but they sure are a lot of fun and nothing else out there produces power like a Harley. Harley just puts that power to the ground so much different than everyone else.
Do you think Harley-Davidson should put more of their performance parts in the stock motorcycles or continue to leave it up to customer to build the bike they want?
I understand it from an emissions perspective. I’d imagine adding more performance minded items would make it a nightmare to keep them oil cooled/air cooled long term.
I don't think they can put performance parts in the motors and Jack the horsepower up beyond what the stock when shipped at because they would get so unreliable. There would be warranty issues up the wazoo.
I like the fact Harley engines aren’t disposable, but that comes with the price of sticking to the cam in block design. If they were to use a magazine with gears to operate the ohc and use a heat transfer system located on the sides of the bike where hard bags are usually mounted I believe they could have it both ways. But I will never purchase a chain or bevel driven ohc motorcycle
It would appear the Motor company is going to try a bit higher end package with these 117 motors, better exhaust and suspension from the factory for 2022. The price point may be deal breaker, time will tell.
I'm anxious to see how these 131's Harley's putting in the bikes perform.
Isn't that what Harley's doing on the 114 build into a 131 ?
I've toofered my bike into the bike I enjoy, I can't imagine the price tag on a 131 bagger, my pockets will never run that deep.
That's the truth for sure. Personally, I usually go with aftermarket parts rather than the screaming eagle parts. I do like Harley's chrome parts though. It's always good quality plating and they stay pretty for a long time. I enjoy personalizing my bikes. I usually have a vision of what I'd like the bike to be and work towards that goal. I get a lot of satisfaction in building something unique that suits me. I can see where people who don't have the time or skill or inclination would buy an off-the-shelf performance model. I think they should continue making them both ways. Something for everyone.
I like the Harley parts myself too, they are really nice but the SE parts just don't make the power the aftermarket parts can make. I couldn't afford to customize my bikes and do engine work if I didn't do it myself, labor rates are not cheap!
Harley/ SE needs to walk the line with the EPA, aftermarket can just print "not for highway use" on them box. Knowing good end well, at will only be used on them streets.
As a Triumph rider, I love what you said about the Triumph Rocket III.
That's a monster motorcycle, I got a chance to ride one years ago and it's a whole new world!
I have no problem making my Harley my own. I believe it’s in Harley, to let the customer build his/her bike as they wish. It will be a sad day if Harley ever takes that from us. In my opinion anyway. Yes.. it is pretty expensive, but when you do all the wrenching, it sure is one hell of a feeling seeing, and hearing the bike run after a good digging into the cam chest. I just did a full stage two on my 2020 softail. I just did the S&S 465 cam, and screaming eagle pro oil pump and cam plate. I’m a car mechanic, and this was the first time wrenching on a Harley. My dad swore up and down I was gonna blow the engine up. I lol! I told him I’m a mechanic Dad! When all was buttoned up, and filled with fresh oil, I fired that puppy up, and son of a betch roared to life! Best feeling ever!!! Keep up the great work GixxerFoo!!
That's awesome! Harley's are very easy to work on, if you can work on a car motor a Harley is nothing. Literally the same concept as a pushrod V8, if you can find TDC you can do anything you want on the motor!
@Peter Angles enjoy your bike man.
One of my biggest gripes about HD is the refusal to work on their own product/motorcycles after they are ten years old.
That's a dealer thing and it's really dumb that they do that especially when Harley parts are so readily available.
The Japanese dealers are the same way. Can't even get parts for my son's 90's era CBR-600.
Good thing, good mechanics do not work at the dealer.
About everybody does . That's because no one has to carry parts for their products past 10 years old ..even Honda is stopping production on parts ten years old ..so what? Every time you make a negative comment about Harley-Davidsons when they're doing the same thing everybody else is doing you cost Harley Davidson money... You want to see them make a better product quit running them into the goddamn ground
@@thompsonjerry3412 good mechanics working cannonball Harley-Davidson terre Haute Indiana or they don't work at all.... It takes skilled Factory trained mechanics to tune a Harley-Davidson on the inhouse dynojet dynamometer... And every franchise Harley-Davidson dealer is required to have one
Harley-Davidson is going to price themselves right out of the market.
Perhaps, but Harleys have been more expensive than other bikes for over 60 years at least.
HD generally stands for Hundred Dollars. Every time you walk into a dealer to buy parts everything seems to cost a hundred dollars. Very much a parts price rip off.
Yup. Fall in love with a $25K-$30K bike on the showroom floor and "do the deal". Then walk over to the parts department and open the P&A catalog and start picking expensive parts and accessories "you're gonna want". Blacked out or chromed this, painted to match that. Air cleaners, air cleaner covers, exhausts, "cool", better matching foot boards and pegs, handlebars, grips, clutch and brake levers, master cylinder covers, wheels and tires and brake rotors. Luggage. Last, but not least, "big bore kits", cams, tuning devices. As you said, there is no end. Next thing you know, that $25-$30K is now $10K more. But hey, you can just write it all into the loan LOL. I will say that, in the last two or three years, HD has factory equipped some of the touring models at least, in forms that require much less changing. But they do charge a commensurate increased amount for these "Special" models as well.
You ain't kidding, you'd think those blacked out Specials were gold plated with the price jump from say the RG/SG to RG/SG Special. I guess you do get the 114 instead of the 107 with the Special and a better stereo but dang were talking about 5 grand.
Well when the bike doesn't change drastically year to year it makes the guy's bike who's been wrenching on his the past 20 years, just as desirable and maybe even more so than a newer one, like shovelhead ffej. I remember saying to him a year or so ago "nobody is going to pay 10 grand for a 20 year old bike" and I can still smell him fuming over my complete ignorance, because I am a newbie to the HARLEY DAVIDSON world. I'm learning from all the techs here on UA-cam just how satisfying owning a HARLEY DAVIDSON is. It took me forever (14years) to decide on which Harley Davidson was going to be mine and it's the 2016 Pro Street Breakout in Black. it already had 585 cams and Bassani Pro street pipes, and cracking the throttle on this beast is like handling a stick of dynamite with a short fuse, precision is a must! AND THEN there is the RIDING GEAR, and there's no better fun than picking out "your HARLEY LOOK". I have always looked for an identity that makes sense to me, and nobody makes life better than Harley Davidson riders.
That's what makes the Harley great is without them changing everything from year to year allows you to have parts that cross multiple years.
My 2007 CVO springer softy (copper canyon red) had an oil cooler fitted by a past owner, so I had the dealer fit a Screamin Eagle oil pump….. which meant while they were in there they may as well fit an SE cam plate (comes with pump), cam followers/lifters, push rods and inner cam bearings! Oh well, while I’ll never get my money back, at least the engine is set up for the foreseeable future. Digital dipstick puts the oil at 217 deg after a long run and 42lbs oil pressure cold/ 25lb hot.
I'll stick with my old evos thank you. They're both bought and paid for, run so smooth, and don't look that bad. I tell people with the high power bikes that I'll just follow you, that way when you crash you'll have a witness.
Lol that's a good one, I have to remember that one. Nothing wrong at all with an Evo, plenty of torque and they are very reliable! Can't beat paid for either!
Other things to consider when adding performance parts:. Added engine heat; longevity of the engine; gas mileage; loudness; rideability. Harley-Davidson has to balance these things on a production motorcycle. The consumer gets to choose which things matter the most.
That's an excellent point, every manufacturer is in a box with what they can do to get where they need to be.
So what. That’s their job to deliver something good for us. That is all BS bro. Totally disagree with your comment. They can figure it out, they just choose not to.
Also HD has to consider warranties, to much power out of the box for their engines state. And the claims go up.
Three years ago I bought an 02 Dyna Low Rider which was in immaculate condition but still had the spring loaded cam train tensioners which I replaced with the Screaming Eagle hydraulic tensioners and I replaced the whole charging system due to a fault that developed. I have also upgraded the rear shocks and replaced the dual seat with a nice Saddleman solo. So, I've corrected some mechanical issues with Harley parts and with aftermarket and have made this bike my own. I paid $5000 for the bike and have spent around $2000 for mechanical and style upgrades and not only love the way my bike runs and looks but am really happy and satisfied with it. As far as I'm concerned this bike which now can carry bags for light touring and that can hit 110 mph on the interstate as well as do 75 easily at 2700 rpm all day long is everything I could ever want from a motorcycle. I'm pleased with the way Harley does things and appreciative of the performance OEM parts (when they're available) as well as the huge aftermarket support for my bike.
What I don't like is the discontinuance of parts from the factory and the fact that dealerships refuse to work on older bikes, even though I do understand why they do that.
Thank God for the busy Harley forums and the vast knowledge base out there amongst other Harley riders. UA-cam is a lifesaver at times as well because, not being a mechanic, I need all the help I can get. I also have a great independent Harley mechanic that lives and breathes Harley and only charges 45/hr labor and lets me work with him on my jobs so that I can learn.
Wish I hadn't spent all those years riding jap bikes before I finally came to my senses and bought my Harley.
That's the way to do it with a used one, get it cheap and fix it up and you're in for way less than a new one!
Pay attention to this guy; he’s spot on!
Thank you, I appreciate it!
05 Superglide here TC88, Freedom Performance exhaust system & Cobra 2000 fuel enhancer are my only mods & honestly it’s all I need, this bike runs strong, no need to waste $ on motorwork & have never had any issues
Harleys are very reliable with exhaust, air cleaner and a tune with the stock motors. Where I see a lot of issues develop is internal engine work without the supporting parts.
Tomatoe tomahto. Harley Davidson is a culture that a lot of people want to be a part of. For some reason many people think that the bike will make them someone they’re not. When I go to the dealership to get something I need/want I always press the odometer buttons on a bunch of the used bikes and most of them have very little mileage on them. Usually under 10k miles. I suppose there could be a lot of reasons for that so we can only guess why, health, expense, upgrade or whatever. My time on Harleys goes back to the 60s and that’s all I’ve ever owned. I do what my expertise allows me to, brakes, clutches, exhaust and bolt ons but no longer want to dig into the engine. My current ride is a 15 road glide Rushmore with 60k on it and I had the dealer do the 117 big bore, ported and freshened up the stock heads along with the SE billet cam plate and high pressure oil pump. I went this route because they’re all Harley parts and engineered for the bike plus I get the warranty. I dropped it off and paid $5,500 when I picked it up. It did come out pretty good with 118/124. So I guess the point is in keeping with this particular video is that expensive is a state of mind, and pocket. If you want something and you can afford it then it’s worth it. I WANT a Lamborghini but I can’t afford it. Harley guys are Harley guys and posers are posers.
That's very true, it's worth what someone is willing to pay for it!
Yes, the Harley tax. Over here, most Harley's are left alone, they arrive at the dealer and leave that way and I think that's how most customers want them (there's also how modifications can blow up insurance rates). But Harley's lack of diversity in their range is something that has hurt them the most over the years when it's the same bike as last year and the year before that.
I imagine it's hard to modify a bike where your at with the emissions regulations getting more stringent. If it's loud they know it's not stock, Screamin Eagle exhaust sound good and they aren't that loud. They are emissions compliant, they don't give you a huge horsepower gain but they more than well make up for that with the torque gains they have.
It doesn’t matter what route with take with Harley. You’re going to pay dearly for it.
That's no joke, making some big harley power isn't cheap.
@@GixxerFoo ---> Plus making big reliable power also.
Used is pretty affordable, as is aftermarket. Dealers are completely off the chain though.
A great part of this is like you said......EPA. Brand new, with a recent used purchase, my gripe isn't so much performance, but having to deal with the tensioners! We could by just about any Japanese bike and never have to shell out for updating something like that.
Here's an idea..HD should allow it's customers to start ordering the performance parts they want in a bike and have it assembled at the factory with those upgrades. Ford is doing that right now with allowing customers to build a truck the way they want it from the factory. Of course a higher price tag will come with that but your going to spend it either way. Just a thought 🤔
That's a great idea! They had something similar to that a while back with the HD-1 factory custom program.
Add to that custom paint.
Just what I want a Poindexter with elf ears telling me what to ride
Kevin Baxter’s channel documents chronic M8 failure
He's done an excellent job showing what happens, why it happens and what you have to do to make it right!
As an HD technician, I would like for them to leave it out.
Job security.
Honestly I think they made the Evo too reliable and in some ways it hurt dealer business. Having worked for dealers myself too, were trying to screw people but we gotta keep the lights on.
I rode a Gold Wing for two years after I hit a deer with my HD Electra Glide standard. After the
Milwaukee 8 came out I traded the Lead Wing in.
No regrets!
Except for the Rain Sock.
Why did they design and produce a motorcycle that needs an umbrella over the air cleaner.
It seems so rididulous.
I think they should have kept Buell as a performance HD
The rain socks actually work pretty well for the open element air cleaners, I haven't had any issues running it on my heavy breather in the rain.
I buy used with the extras that the other guy already spent big bucks for.
I try to use original Harley parts and keep them as stock as I can since I'm looking for longevity not speed. My 72 FLH is bone stock is about the same configuration as when it rolled off the showroom floor I've had it 35 years.
That's really impressive to have had a bike that long and kept it that close to stock!
Hahaha, I loved your comment about Pandora's box. I have not been able to close that box since I've opened it. Would be interesting to do a profit margin on the sale of parts. I have some butt buddies that feel as though Harley builds them at the factory with the intentions of people buying aftermarket/performance upgrades. (Conservatively) I have $5,000 in a 2000 twin cam. But I find so much enjoyment out of working on the scooter I don't look at the dollar amount. It's a fun bike to ride that I enjoy immensely. Unknowingly I went through a rear tire in just over 2 months. So I've been practicing on slowing my roll on the throttle. LoL
Always, always enjoy your channel thanks for the upload
You really hit the nail on the head. The enjoyment factor plays a huge role for many of us. Buying a metric would be far a far cheaper endeavor but the enjoyment of turning wrenches and skinning the tops of your hands would be gone.
Thank you, I appreciate it! Harley saw years ago people going to the aftermarket and that's when the Screamin Eagle factory performance parts line came in. I'm the same way, I love working on the bike feeling the difference each upgrade makes on the bike. Profits must be pretty good on parts and accessories, dealer employees are usually given something that's about a 50% discount off retail.
@@carlbruhn1772 I couldn't agree more. My entire family is into motor scooting so I've been around it my entire life. With that being said when a brand new Rider comes and ask me for advice. I'll tell him, get ya a metric bike, ride it for a year or two see if you're going to stay in it and if you are, upgrade into a Harley.
It'll save you a lot of money.
I'll never have to experience it but I am told, to do all three holes on a fluid change with a new Harley will cost you in the neighborhood of $450 (at Harley)
My priority is reliability. I bought a 2013 Electra Glide Ultra Limited October 2021. This March I am having HD of Asheville install a Dark Horse Compensator, Baker Manual primary tensioner, S and S Cam plate, oil pump, hydraulic cam chain tensioner, quickie push rods, and Jagg fan assisted oil cooler. All these parts I have in my possession now. Damn supply chain issues are frustrating. I have to research best wireless interface with the cb and radio.
Reliability goes a long way, even with performance parts when it's done right the reliability goes with it. The supply chain issues are ridiculous, it's dang near impossible to get anything right now.
I miss Asheville, Brevard, Hendersonville, Waynsville, but, living at the coast, taking my ocean boat out, will have to do!
The great thing about HD it is the motorcycle for people who like to wrench their ride and plan to keep the bike for years. If you are not that type of biker you can just go out and buy a new one.
That's why I like the Harley, it does cost more up front but you have the security of knowing you'll have parts for likely the rest of your life!
Leave em stock and let people build what they want is what I would say, good stuff brother💯👊🏽😎
Thank you! I would just like to have the take off parts from the dealers! They just throw those in the scrap bin, I could retire off just the scrap stock parts lol.
@@GixxerFoo you and me both lol,
They do offer a "high performance" model its their CVO. I mean you can get roadglide then you can get a roadglide special with the "next level" performance from there you get in to a CVO.. Its like buying a plan Jane V6 Camero or buying a V8 Camero then you empty you pockets for the "Red Line" edition. The way I see it Harley doesn't do any thing the "Big Three" doesn't do. It's just that the spot light is on them.
The CVO does have a bit bigger engine but they don't put any of the performance parts in it. You get a little better set of heads which does have bigger valves and some more cubic inches. But other than that the bottom end is all stock factory components.
The fart at the end, classic!
Just bought a road glide after 30 years of metric. First thing I said is this thing is a slug even at a cruise. Old school, old technology. It has a screaming eagle kit, I guess.
A little massaging on that bike and it can be woke up, what year is it?
@@GixxerFoo 2014 103 engine stage 2 screaming eagle kit. It need something.
If they were to offer a way (special ordering process, SE Performance) to have the various Stage Kits installed at the factory, so that when the customer's new bike get's delivered to the HD Dealership, that would "take away" a lot of business ($$$) from said Dealership's Service Dept. Service Dept. would then be reduced to performing mostly routine maintenance, warranty repairs, non-warranty repairs, and installation of accessories (unless accessories could also be specially ordered & installed at the factory). Service Dept. could also install aftermarket products & accessories.
They had a similar program to that through HD-1 Factory Customization. The factory would send the bike with the color you specified, chrome or black engine and the handle bar option you chose. The dealer would install all the selected accessories you opted for, I believe the dealer got the credit on the accessories and you paid the dealers labor charge. It was a really neat program and you could build the bike online, that's how I got mine in 2016 with a color very rarely stocked at the dealers.
Its also these days to do with emissions laws, they are very strict in the EU/UK and from what I heard places like California USA, you start adding performance then you add more pollution and then they can't sell them.
Well the engines have a deep and basic design flaw. That's left over from the 1920s. So if they crank the power up right out of the box from the factory to keep up with similar displacement motorcycles. They're going to be even shorter lived and even less reliable.
If Harley would just go back to Timken bearings and quit pressing cranks with some tighter tolerances they would be very solid.
@Addicus Taylor Nothing solves the horrible displacement to HP ratio, or power to weight ratio or short engine life. Well till the Evo Max.
No kidding. Owning three has certainly taught me that. 😞
It's a shame they make you buy those good parts separately, they would go a long way in the stock motor.
id like to see a CVO FXLRS but i already have a 128 in my 21
This is my exact argument for Harley. In no way could any manufacturer make ONE bike that fits all. And when it comes to riding comfort is key then performance (IMO). One of my bikes is a ‘97FXDL came with mid controls and low bars. Those are the first things I changed. Show me another manu that has the supply chain to do ANYTHING you want to a 24 year old bike… As far as price goes, I’m going to look at ‘00 sporty for $1500 today… So you can find a Harley from $1500 to 50k and everywhere in between Something for everyone ✌🏼
Harley's are a blank canvas to do what you want with one, lol just so happens they are more than willing to supply the parts to do so too.
After purchasing, I usually go screaming eagle route. Sprinkle a little head porting and I am good to go.
Screamin Eagle parts aren't bad at all, they really do make some good power and very reliably too.
@@GixxerFoo Agreed 👍
When I had an '07 Street Bob with the 96 it was just fine without upgrades. A 2008 Street Glide with a 96 was just fine for touring New Mexico. Now a 2018 Lowrider 107 seems just fine to me. I remember Lemmy's Revzilla review on the 2017 Road King when he said the 107 was too much engine for the stock frame. I am confused about the need for bigger engines a 14 year old frame.
The new M8's makes some great torque and really decent horsepower, a set of exhaust for a little sound is really all you need these days.
Found a 2013 Yamaha Raider v twin1900, low miles, $6300.00. Looks and runs like new. Don't need to do anything, just get on and ride.
I agree. Opening that HD catalog is high risk and should come with a warning. I like Harley but I still think they are already over priced on the showroom floor. Can you imagine what they would cost with "performance" parts built in.
You know Harley would just cut back in other areas to add performance parts stock and of course the price would go up for the bike.
Here in Ontario, Canada most aftermarket parts can be bought online and sent to our doors. HD parts can only be bought and picked up at the dealership. Thats a hassle. They loose MUCH business doing this. They loose mine.
That's the way here with a lot of Harley parts, engine parts and stuff like that they will only sell in store.
@@GixxerFoo Thats a mistake. Its 2022, not 1972. If HD wants the younger rider market they need to adapt to them and make easier.
Power is an easy add styling and sound for me besides I’d rather build out my engine to my riding
Some of SE stuff is crap anyway, (chain driven cams), the aftermarket offers a plethora of parts that are competitively priced and often times cheaper than the SE catalog. Buy stock and do it yourself...if you ride it you should be capable wrenching it as well!
Aftermarket is the way to go, I couldn't afford to do any performance parts if I had to pay labor. Labor is ridiculously high at the dealers!
I had the Stage One Kit installed on my 2021 Road Glide Standard the day I purchased it. This was based on my last Road Glide (2009). 🏍💨🏍💨
Getting that stage 1 done before it even leaves the dealer is the way to do it!
I agree with you and wish I had done this with my sporty when I bought it new but I was a babe in the woods so to speak. I’m planning a couple aesthetic upgrades but overall I’m happy with my bike the way it is.
I tend to leave Screamin Eagle parts alone, as it has been my experience that the parts don't last much beyond the warranty period. The aftermarket covers most performance parts one could want.
I'll never put a screaming eagle part on my bike ever again.
Road glide and street glide ST should have at least a 120 or 122 inch engine. True big inch high performance. Putting it in class by itself. Not just a cheap CVO.
The 117 is a good start but I agree going with a 119 or 122 would of been the ticket on the bagger!
And why not the 131R ? You can’t tell if they offered this right out the gate that there would not be some who’d buy it. After all the work I put into my bike ( the 150/150 club) I could have just bought a road glide with the 131R ( but not in SoCa )
Not related to this video but I'll ask anyway.
Just bought a 2018 Heritage 114.
I heard that the 2017 M8 107 had sumping issues. Is this the same problem for the 2018 114?
The 2018 had the same oil pump, but oddly it really only seems to be an issue with the touring platform and not on the Softail bikes. It's a possibility but I haven't really seen it on any Softails.
While it is true that Harley Davidson's don't change much from model year to model year...
But soon after they are sold it is hard to find two "identical" bikes.
I know a lot of Harley owners that have spent big $$$ customizing their bike before the first oil change.
That is very true, no two Harleys are ever exactly alike unless they are brand new on the floor!
Like this channel a lot! Just want to point out that in terms of actual performance on the road, bikes over 100 hp are 1) not really necessary for any good reason, 2) not really worth the additional cost for most riders, and 3) not very practical for someone that actually want to ride them. They’re great for guys that don’t care about money, traffic laws, or living to a natural age and just want to brag about it at the bar and to their friends or on social media. What most riders want is a machine that will get them where they’re going in a comfortable and reliable manner and deliver a great riding experience. Unfortunately, between the press/media and all of the technical BS we seem to have lost sight of those simple facts…it’s easy to talk s**t online, but another matter entirely when it involves putting your ass on the line on the street…just sayin’.
Well said.
Right at 100 horsepower is a great place to be with a Harley, now torque up to 120 is a real nice sweet spot on these bikes. That's what you're going to feel rolling on out of a corner with these bikes. Very well said!
I use aftermarket for performance parts. Always get more power and sometimes even save a few bucks. However it would be nice to order one already done out of the factory.
Aftermarket parts are where it's at!
Frankly, Harleys should be manufactured without air cleaner, exhaust, or handlebars. Choose those parts upon delivery! That stuff ends up in a scrap bin more often than not.
I would love to haul off the scrap bins of stock parts for Harley-Dealers at no cost to them, I could retire off the amount of stock parts that get sold to scrap.
Hey GixxerFoo, this story is true, very true indeed. My guess is though, that HD will provide their bikes just a little more powered now since even HD sees the end of combustion engines coming. So basically they're walking the walk to sell their bikes in a heavy competitive market, and they therefore will have to upgrade their bikes to stay of any importance in the horse power race which is going on. The fact that combustion engines are coming to an end very soon (Global Green-deal) and the fact that even HD want to continue to survive after the Green-deal has taken place, will motivate them not just to increase the power in their engines but probably stop selling the basic motorcycles and start selling only their most expensive top models (CVO?) for an increasingly lower price, just to make sure they'll keep their share of the market. What we all are waiting for is the development of Harley Davidson Motorcycles to run on Hydrogen, since Hydrogen (H2) will be one of the alternatives next to the synthetic fuel which is in development by Audi and Porsche in cooperation with Exxon Mobile. It is to be expected that Synthetic fuels are going to be limited available and very pricey per unit (gallon or liter), so the Hydrogen ICE (Internal combustion Engine) is more likely the solution we are waiting for.
It's going to be interesting to see how they survive the electric future that looks unavoidable. Live Wire didn't exactly go over very well but we'll see!
leave the power low, and they should have a training wheel pkg for new riders. you know the ones, yea the ones wearing EVERY clothing accessory that will fit them from the show room floor. the ones that kill the bike at the first 12 stop lights they come to. the ones that come to a curve in the road and slow down to almost a complete stop. Yes to much power will kill to many newbie's so it's best for those of us that know what we are doing to do our own HP increase. Thanks for the Video
Open to opinion, but the rocker ticking and first gear clunking could be fine tuned a bit. I would like some performance parts installed at factory than we have the warranty for sure. While I ride in the slow lane for wind therapy mainly, nice to have the HP on the freeway without stupid taigate cagers breathing down our neck.
I’d like to have them perform as best as they can make them to comply with regulations. The aftermarket will still make them even faster…or slower.
I'm really surprised how well Harley-Davidson has made them run and the power they can get out of those motors being emissions compliant.
Guess I’m just lucky. 65 mph on my 2012 King is all the faster I really care to go and find the 103 stock set up quite adequate. I do the pup pup pup pup with my lips if I need additional sound affects while being able to hear what’s around me as well. I know what loud pipes sound like. So I’m all good and glad that Harley provides a platform for those that ain’t.
Nothing wrong with that at all, the stock bike really does have good torque. Even stock I still like to flash a improved stock map which puts some more fuel in the bike and makes it more responsive, not to mention cools it down a bit.
I just leave mine alone except for the crankcase breather part and ride, It is good enough the way it comes factory stock.
Great video, Gixxer! That new FXLR-ST is a Nice bike! If I were a younger man, I would certainly buy one of these.
Thank you! It's been a while since Harley-Davidson came out with a bike I just can't get out of my mind. It's what the sport glide should of been!
People still ride Evos and Shovels as dailies, if people are buying these 2021 bikes and saying they still dont have enough power, I dont think the bike is the problem XD
The new M8 has more power than any 45 twin that came before it but they just don't ride like the good old Evos and Shovels.
Your video always contains very informative information…thanks!
Thank you, I appreciate the support!
I don’t they can ship them out of the factory with the stage kits. The stock set up is for it to pass EPA standards, they offer Screaming Eagle Kits as after/post ownership upgrades.
That's a very good point!
Every time I buy a Harley, I start with changing the exhaust, intake, get a tuner and a torque cam. Up to now, I’ve traded every other year. I do that each time. However, I am thinking this time about going to a stage 3 on my current bike and keeping it while I buy a CVO for special occasions.
@Peter Angles I’ve averaged 20k per year for the last 15 years. Don’t project your weaknesses on others. You’re only sure of what you do.
I think it is right to let the customer dictate how they want their bike to perform and how much they are willing to spend. Keeps the customer "sticky" to the brand for sure.
I wanted one until I noticed all of this . I refuse to spend 20k on a bike just to turn around and add 10-14k in upgrades and led lights and what not .
The new bikes have LED lights, but if you want more in the engine you'll need to do some work.
@@GixxerFoo I do think the low rider S is worth it . You get a lot of bang for your buck . I wanted a road glide but I couldn’t get myself to part with 22-29k then having to do a lot of upgrades. I also can’t believe they put a 114 in a 14k bike but you get a 107 in a 22k road glide standard. That blows my mind .
They can do both keep a base and offer performance models people try to bash H D but auto manufacturers do the same thing with their performance I own a mustang and when you want more performance get ready to spend yeah Harley is expensive but you also buying into the culture ,following what ever you want to call it and I love it I owned a kaw loved it but it’s something about H D and I never saw anyone with a kaw,Honda etc tattoo ijs
Exactly, Harley just has different ride and feel that can't be replicated by anything else.
Good video , Harley Davidson 118 yrs making a motor and still can’t make a bullet proof motor, very sad
Thank you, they could make it bullet proof. They don't though and they haven't since the Evo, the Evo was too reliable.
Revolution max engine that’s where the power is , quality and finish is always going to be there .
That new Revolution Max is an awesome motor, I just hope we a big inch motor like that for the touring bikes some day.
Not everyone seeks performance.
That's very true and the stock Harley is a great package in terms of torque and horsepower right out of the box.
To me it's the cast cam plate, oil pump setup that should be thrown out the window. I think it would be worth it if they included billet and higher pressure and volume right out of the box. Also don't skimp on the cranks. True and weld those suckers and use premium bearings to add even more longevity to these engines. Oh, and of course, Why use the INA bearings when the Torringtons are much better for the cams. Harley, please stop trying to keep costs down at the expense of quality basic components! I'd pay more upfront for these upgrades that aren't just for performance but longevity and peace of mind!
There's quite a few issues with those cast cam plates, I have never been a fan of them!
They've always done this & always will, so you can fork out thousands more customizing the crappy stock bike...my almost stock twin cam 88 won't even do a full 100 mph...why can't a 1450 cc engine achieve 100 mph without hotrodding it, when I have a stock Honda 600 that'll do more than that? They've always loved giving people screw jobs...& we keep coming back for more...I've actually bought 3 over the years, & the only one I never had to customize or beef up was the '08 CVO Electra Glide I had...but I still had to do a lot of repairs on it...they make some of the most beautiful bikes on the market, but the 'quality' just isn't there & never has been...this twin cam is the last one I'll ever buy...if I ever need another bike, it'll be a Kawasaki Vaquero...Harley won't ever get any more of my money after this one...if they don't change this, they'll eventually go out of business when their loyal fan base dies off...younger riders simply don't want these overpriced boat anchors...
The Kawasaki Vulcans are the absolute best value in the cruiser market out there today. You look at everything you get for well under 20K and it's very hard to argue with!
Yep...& you can literally buy 2 of them brand new & fully loaded off the showroom floor for the price of one stripped down HD touring bike...I love the way HDs look, but I hate the company's practices...
My bitch is you should be able to order a new ride with a factory hot rod engine. What even you want. Stage 4 - 103 or stage 4-5 131. And on and on. Buying a new ride and then having to buy basically half of a new engine is total BS. This ST is a start,
Great content, Have blessed day man. cheers.
I like the new ST and it's a great start, I would love to see it come with a 131 rather than having to spend another 6500 for a complete crate engine. By the time you had a dealer tear your motor down to install the 131 kit you'd be in it about 6500.
@@GixxerFoo That's right. That's about what I shell out for stage 4 on my 2012 black line 103.
i dont think " performance parts" are necessary untilll its time to rebuild completely. instead i focus on making the bike comfortable ie new seat bars ect. but more important for me is getting the most mile out of my bike before that which means fixing all the shit parts first. cam plate oil pump and cooler opening up the bike so it won't sump so intake and crank breather. on the primary side compensator and chain tensioner. that way when you do rebuild you've already have the " while im in there parts". i put on about 35k a year on a bike so i dont want loud pips and i dont need more power than my 103 twin cam has. what i need is a better suspension and just a more comfortable ride. thats wher i would put my money in my bike befor you get to that 80k mark. then when you rebuildvyou engine you can govforvbigger jugs new pipes intake cam allvthat shit and then your build is so much more satisfying. youve brought your tired ol bike back to life. and it didnt kill your piggy bank..... if you do it yourself.
Doing all of it yourself is key! Investing in suspension is one of the best things you can do, I have never heard anyone regret investing in the suspension!
@@GixxerFoo anything beat harleys 12 $ shocks. i didnt do the front end because i fall in the democrat of the rider weight Harley builds bikes for im about 175 lbs so but even cheep shocks are better than those air shocks.and change your fork oil people ! in my case the 10w is fine but if you are a " big bonned individual" you might want to go up to 15w.
If I am putting performance parts in my engine they WONT be from Harley Davidson… they had their chance when they built it.
I have a new 21 Street Glide Special. I’m considering adding the torque came before the 60 days passes. I also wanted to change the lower rocker box cover to black. Since they will have to pull the tank off etc for the rocker box cover would it be better to use solid push rods if possible? Also should I do anything else withe the cam plate etc that you mentioned while they’re all ready “In there”? Thanks again for all of the great content.
I would keep it stock till the warranty is up then put a s and s cam system in it which comes with almost every thing you need but the cam bearing
@@justinhampton2216 I thought about that. It just doesn’t sound good. Even with the slip ons that I added. It sucks being held hostage by Harleys warranty. I even considered buying a third party warranty that would cover aftermarket parts. This is definitely the first vehicle of any type where I was looking forward to the warranty ending. Thanks for the input.
Then just buy the Exhaust if the sound is your main gripe the do the rest later
@@justinhampton2216 I put Rhinehart DBX 45 slip ons on it. I’m just used to the twin cam sound.
Slipons aren't really for sound. But no twin cam will sound like a Milwaukee 8 like no twin cam will sound like a Evo
We have all herd the marketing slogan: buy one, get one free, Harley turns it on its head: buy two get one
Well the question of out of the box performance or build your own.
You’re basically speaking to two sets of buyers with this. Just like in the automotive industry, me being old as dirt, I remember the muscle car era and the aftermath.
Not everyone could afford the 72 SS Chevelle with the “pass every thing but a gas station” 454 in it, but they might be able to but the small block version and as time goes on and job promotions happen, they start beginning to be able to do certain mods that allow them to get to near where they first wanted to be. Although the cloned SS isn’t as valuable as the true one, it is to them.
Same as with bikes. The price tag of a new bike is what pushed me to buy a 20 year old Electra Glide. I could afford it, it had relatively low miles, and looked phenomenal.
Now, I can start picking up parts to build it the way I want, but more than likely I’m just leave it be and just enjoy it. But, because I didn’t spend multiple tens of thousands on the purchase of a comparable, yet newer model, I monetarily have the choice.
The CVO’s and nicely tricked out bikes are nice, but in the end, it still only gets you from point A to point B. They getting there in style…..that can be added on for far less than bought from the factory. At least for me.
But if you have the $$$ and don’t want the hassle of turning wrenches or waiting for parts, knock yourself out. Just remember the bike/car/boat/house is just a reflection of the owners personality.
That's very true, yeah not everyone has 50K to get a CVO with a 117. Lol I know I don't, but I can do is buy a nice clean older Harley and tear it down myself and start sourcing some performance parts. A lot of people really feel for the price of a Harley they should put a hotter cam in and get some more power out of them right off the show room floor.
Best explained video on this subject. Harleys are like jeeps n hot rods! You make it your own.
No they are not performance machines so making that comparison is silly. They are premium motorcycle the new low rider s and st are on par with the market for premium bikes. Ktm 1290 super duke right thier at 20gs
As is the bmw s1000rr and multiple Ducati and even special edition japanese sports bikes. Kawasaki h2 is 29g's . So if performance is what your after buy one of them. You really can't beat harly fit n finish. Most of us buy harley because of the name! The finish! And the feel. They can be wonkey feeling at first but they grow on you really quickly. Some simple suspension upgraded. Seat/bars and stage 1 or 2 and you can really have a very spirited bike. If you want more than a good cruiser.
In my opinion these new st line bikes are for those of us that love the harley look n feel but want more performance stock. Especially those of us in CA were everything is illegal. These are performance versions of Harleys not really performance bikes in comparison to the competing market. Becuase harley doesn't havnt to compete no matter who aims at them. They should! That's for sure. I personally don't find the st road/street gluids worth the price for what (I) would built with say just a standard or special. But he'll look at the cvo.. the type of person who buys that is the kind that likes talking about the price.
Yes Harleys can be underwhelming in stock form performance wise. But that's not what thier about. So the comparison is dumb. And they are premium like it or not. And they are in a competing price range for a premium bike. People don't go this crazy over not being able to afford a new top of the heap truck. If you can't afford a st get a 2nd job or buy a standard instead. Live within your means. You can barely buy a new car for less than 25 grand a crummy economy one. So stop trying to get a luxury bike for less.
And last buy not least more engine options wouldn't hurt. All I mean is a larger displacement revolution motor available in all of thier bikes for those who think hp and rpm is what they want. Let them ride around like teenagers at 8grand rpm If they want
I gotta admit I am pretty excited about the new ST bikes and the 117 in them. It's a really good direction, you could get a base SG or RG but you're looking at 2500 in suspension and then getting into the engine. Arguably you could do that and still be under the 30K of the new ST's but you won't have the finishes.
I’m ok with the performance upgrade options. I’m not ok with the sorry build quality of items such as the pressed crank. It’s simply lousy machine work by the MoCo that’s not acceptable.
They really should take a step back with those cranks and go back to forging them than casting and pressing.
Harley Davidson puts out a perfectly good bike in stock form. People have different ideas about what motorcycling is. Some people are touring oriented. Some are performance oriented. Some are customized oriented and some are all about the biker image. Whatever your preference, Harley Davidson will sell you whatever you need to achieve your goal.
That's exactly what they do!
I think we’re seeing more bikes with the 117 this year because the 107 isn’t going it be around a whole lot longer
That's a great point! They have really phased that 107 out, very few bike have it anymore!
Over the last 22 years I only did ride two air cooled Standard Electra-glides. Did ride thru seventeen countries with these stock bikes and counting. Never needed a so-called 'update' to make my bike more unreliable, and never needed a powerfull showbike. Chrome wound bring you home. 😁
I have a old Road King classic with the TC 88 and dont have any plans on increasing performance. Rather spend on reliability if anything. Lets face it a bagger like my Road King will never be any crouch rocket so why bother trying to make it something it isnt? Id rather just buy a proper crouch rocket as a second bike if i was inclined for that.
Keeping them reliable is the way to go, nothing wrong with that!
Every other manufacturer gives you more right out of the box. And in my opinion some of the other manufacturers also have just as good fit and finish. I like Harley but it's not 2010 anymore.
You get a lot more with other brands for you money up front for sure, Harley is getting better about that though.
@@GixxerFoo agreed , I'm happy they're starting to step it up. But let's be honest some of these bikes have technology that Yamaha , was doing almost 20 years ago .
Excellent analysis.
Thank you, I appreciate it!
this topic kind of goes along with a question i was going to ask. Harley has been slowly going bigger and bigger bore. when do you think they have gone far enough/ far as they can go ? to me 114 is big enough. they should just refine the engine now. i rather have Timkin bearings and a concentric flywheel than a 117. or like on the ST models shocks that dont suck ! lol. most bikes seem to be stopping at 1800 cc or close. a 114 is just a little over that. for those that want more they can go aftermarket. those that want reliability can keep it stock. i have no problem with them leaving out HP. when they leave known issues instead of fixing them is what i hate. issues you wont know till you crack the case. just adding a plug on the flywheel like S&S does would help. plus tighter quality on the flywheel being out of round. or adding a better/longer warranty on parts with known issues like the flywheel/sumping if your bike is still stock. just my thoughts. good vid
Thank you, I appreciate it! King of the Baggers has done a lot of good development, they are now selling the same shocks for the baggers they use on the race bike. Harley claims the 131 engine for the street when you add the new billet cam plate is only 3 race specific parts shy of what they run in the race motor. A company called Leading Egde is making a 151 cubic inch M8 engine kit so not telling where it will stop.
No matter how much performance Harley includes, people are going to want just a little bit more. My preference would be that Harley put in the best parts possible for the parts that are included (flywheel, oil pump, cam plate, etc). People should be able to expect their motorcycle to commonly last 150,000 miles.
That's the most important part is starting with a stout bottom end!
If you want 100K even, get a Honda.
Harley-Davidson and S&S get their flywheels and connecting rods from the same foundry all made in Chicago
@@GixxerFoo Harley-Davidson and S&S buy their flywheels and connecting rods from the same foundry made in Chicago Illinois
My 20 Breakout has right at 30k in it. I know that she's over-priced, but I don't care. She's mine. I look at it as a reward for years of discipline. She's got more than enough power to make me smile every ride.
Breakout has always been one of my favorites, it's awesome they put the 114 in it!
Buying Your own custom bike from factory or through the dealer is Harley's niche for sure. Now that they don't carry a huge range of bike on the floor they should become an accessories store. As im the bulk of their shop space should be stoked with custom parts. The dream world haha. Where you wonder around and dream up your bike from the parts on the shelves. Sure theres 3rd party suppliers etc but people are lazy and would prefer a 1 stop shop. HD need to shift focus a little more in this area.
someone finally said it each bike has a intended purpose .
I've always said that when people start comparing Harley-Davidson touring bikes cost and horsepower output to a Hayabusa.
Harley-Davidson leaving out their quickshifter for the 2022 Pan America Special. Its a Screamin Eagle add on. This is standard with other adv bikes in the same class.
That doesn't surprise me with Harley-Davidson, on the Pan America they should throw everything at it and more.
I personally think part of it is because if you increase its state of tune then you have to maintain that. Longevity will be longer in stock state of tune. HD makes faster bikes these days regardless. My old pans and shovels aren't gonna keep up with these new machines. Hell the speed limit is 85 mph here in Az out in the desert, 55 to 65 in phx area. HD can easily do that . If I want to go faster than that I would get a gixxer or a busa!
Yeah those Shovels get a bit upset with you if you run them at 65 to 70 for long periods lol. They were built when the federal speed limit was 55 and they will do that all day long without complaint.
@@GixxerFoo my 71 flh electraglide is an old fashioned stroker . Went fron 74 inches to 85. Downside is the stress on the rods. Less RPM ass well. I have never gone over 75mph with the old bike . I have a couple of panhead chops. Again 75 mph is about the most . 09 dyna street bob is my daily ride . It just starts and goes.
I'm Not the one to ask, i built 2 Monster Harley's performance wise and the Reliability went right out the window, and my last 4 HD's other than a stage 1 i left ALONE !! and frankly i'm much happier
Lol there is a fine line on building a Harley when it's too much. you make a performance Harley and have it be reliable. It just takes a lot to do and you pretty much have to start from the crank up and make zero compromises.
@@GixxerFoo one of my builds was an 89 1200 sportster where i used a lot of Buell parts, and Hot Heads Brand heads and a paucho hardtail frame, it was a Real Screamer, but when i rode it on long trips 250-350 miles i had to do inventory on what broke, and each time i would try to upgrade the broken part. Then i did a 2003 FXDL with a Jims 120ci and it was a little more dependable, but also had it's issues, my last 4 harley's i left stock for the most part and trouble free.
True. I try to buy American made aftermarket parts. HD products are Chinese and always on backorder.
in my opinion I think harley almost needs to keep going the performance route, as well as a massive price adjustment. I love my harley but it was impossible to justify the new harley price tag. A good example is I bought a 20 year old harley for only 3k less than a new Japanese cruiser.
Yeah these new ones are getting up there, those new ST baggers are 30K!
@@GixxerFoo and of course those are the ones I want after watching king of the baggers lol
@@GixxerFoo 30k plus without RDRS $1,100.00. Plus ($800.00) acquisition fee on website, $650 shipping/destination charge and my dealership gets $1,000.00 no matter what. Add tax you are well over 36k!!! No wonder people keep their bikes and modify after a few years!! Love my Harley but when you get to that level????
I think HD had to respond with the ST lineup due to the increased demand of performance baggers/ low riders etc. I know after I looked at what HD was offering in their stage kits vs what I could do w/ aftermarket and I went 100% aftermarket for more performance- WAY more bang for the buck.
No doubt aftermarket is the way to go, just a bolt in aftermarket cam will run with a stage 4 kit.
when you build bikes as heavy as a tractor, you need a tractor engine to move them.it dont help when the riders weigh nearly as much as their bikes.im surprised they dont have air brakes.
Amen brotha
It sucks that if you want more from your harley....you have to dig deep into your pockets!....but at the same time I like it because everyone can make a harley that is theirs!...chances are no one else will have one like yours!!😉👍....great video!...stay safe out there!!😎👍🤙👍🤙🇨🇦
Thank you! Harley performance ain't cheap but they sure are a lot of fun and nothing else out there produces power like a Harley. Harley just puts that power to the ground so much different than everyone else.