You believe it to be an engine-related oversight? When it comes to the backdashes specifically, I believe it to be intended design. They even came up with this novelty separate category of backdash with different behavior than regular backdashes... But when it comes to lateral movement, I had a generally-positive experience with T8 so far. Aside from some insane stuff I've seen happening with friends and partners like strings autocorrecting or clipping deep sidewalks that are way past the side axis, the character already in the opponent's back... my personal experience has been very positive, _specially coming from T7 Jin_ so I'm taking whatever I can get. LMAO Nevertheless, GO FOR IT. I'm eager to see your findings: the more awareness we raise, the better! PS: I meant some crazy stuff like these LMAO ua-cam.com/video/wbpS4fIaYmE/v-deo.html
Please do. I really do wonder if all these issues are from a bad port over to UE5. Remember all the crazy issues with walls and people being able to go out of bounds on stages at release? Also characters phasing through each other when certain moves were triggered? Even now, being near the wall makes the camera go insane and causes really fucked up situations that never happened in T7. I do really think they fucked up a lot of stuff coming over the UE5. But that could just be copium from me so I dont have to accept that this is really the direction they want to take this series...
@@NovaSeiken The string autocorrection is crazy. What I've seen is that every second high attack from any string (i.e. Dragunov's B4,3 which was fixed but I havent played T8 since) had tracking properties. While being a little difficult you could reliably sidestep duck. Now the problem comes in when you, lets say, sidestep a hellsweep and the first low attack successfully whiffs but the second connects. In previous Tekken games it was a common thing to sidestep Kazuya's hellsweep and the second punch attack connects, but as a block. So no worries: just wait for the animation to end and launch. Playing against my friend's Lars it is common that I sidestep the first low attack and the second connects... If he throws the mid he's done for. But if he goes for the high IT WILL AUTOMATICALLY CONNECT AND PUT ME IN A MIXUP SITUATION, unless I'm willing to commit to ducking and risk getting hit by that chonky kick. This was a specific situation but the problem still happens pretty often with all kinds of specially 3 attack strings.
@@NovaSeiken I'm all for the awareness stuff and all that. The real challenge is to get the casual playerbase to care. Change will happen if enough people make a fuss about it and affects their sales. One good example is the stage drama. Harada himself apologized if I remember correctly. If you can somehow get a massive chunk of the community care about hitbox issues enough for their sales to tank, that would be great.
@@AngeloGene You are right unfortunately, which is why I don’t have my hopes up… realistically, more than 95% of the player base do not care as long as the stuff happening on screen “looks cool”
FINALLY, someone talks about this issue that you have to eat everything because hitbox is so thick on sidestep/backdash, on the top of that there is "neutral guard bug" that greatly turn off guarding when you're backdashing so you can get hit between backdash, this game has so many issues with blocking and no1 talks about it.
I made this one in the hopes it reaches the right hands so we as a community can mobilize, be vocal about our discontent and hopefully bring change for a better Tekken 8 experience for the future. 😄
the guard bug is most egregious with the lack you will be blocking or otherwise and phantom hits and or block just disappears as if they forget to add blocking to the game cause offenzzz is da defenzzz mash muh buttons harder
Dude the amount I’ve gotten so confused on how I got hit when I’m literally not pressing anything action buttons but just Kbding or holding back but somehow I get fucking launched.
@@nejifn3078 Same here. I had no idea this was a thing. It answers a LOT of questions as to why I be getting launched when Im back dashing or side stepping. BTW side stepping is borderline useless outside of VERY specific situations.
yea i agree, i've been getting hit so much more when i swear i was holding back, something's up with the guard system, and even pros mentioned it, they're like "how did i get hit there???" and i've been backdashing the same exact way for the last 20 years, but only in T8, i've been getting hit so much all of sudden, and I'm in TGS ranks, TGP ranks in T7, so I know how to fucking backdash cancel lol....I also hope the hitbox on so many moves need to be nerfed, so many moves have this phantom range, it's ridiculous
It's not a mistake when they add insane range and forward movement in strings, high chip damage in heat, wall splatting heat smashes, insane tracking on non-homing moves like Kazuya ff2 in heat, etc. This is Mario Party 8 not Tekken 8.
@@Allblaster The sheer amount of evidence points to deliberate, intentional design, unfortunately. If you're always glued in, the agressor gets the power to dictate. But we need to voice our discontent on this matter regardless. It's the only way to improve the Tekken 8 experience for the future. (I PRAY this project reaches the right hands... really put my heart into making this, hoping for a change for the better, eventually.)
Toxic positivity by influencers and pros... when the game came out, i got cussed live out by pros and streamers in their streams. just bcs i pointed out how upset i was so many cardinal tekkenrules were broken. They dont want to be negative bcs they are afraid of namco@@NovaSeiken
This is the first fighting game I’ve played seriously and I see these problems clearly. I can only play so many matches till I’m screaming at the screen because something visually didn’t reach me but still connects.
Absolutely insane that no content creator had made a comprehensive and in-depth video on this topic yet. With the absurd amount of tracking and forward movement added to strings, and the deliberate extensions of hitboxes to comical degrees, combined with the overall bad backdashes, we've all been feeling the effect of this for more than a year. It's obviously hard to get all the facts and evidence straight to discuss this topic and I'm glad someone's done it. Great content.
Every well know tekken content creator is afraid of speaking the truth about this trash game, they r literally licking bamco asses u think they can put out any negative content about this game!?
Backdashes are really, really bad in this game because of that, but honestly, sidesteps feel better in this game than in t7. Maybe I just improved at tekken in general, but like damn near everything in t7 was hard to sidestep unless you time it perfectly or commit to a side-walk. In this one I can do smaller sidesteps to avoid stuff, and doing micro sidesteps when I'm at -2 or 3 feels more wortwhile. Just my perception. But I really miss tekken 5 backdashes, can you imagine how fun this game would be if we had that level of backwards movement? It would be so much fun, and turtling would still be harder than t7 since we'd still have heat as a universal resource and crazy advantage states.
yeah this is the reason why i'm taking a break right now. this is the #1 most unspoken about issue currently and it's the tekken team's most subtle yet impactful way to create forced interactions, aside from sheer frame data and properties. genuinely a shame what they did to tekken man
Don't feel afraid of taking a break, man. Taking a break from Tekken is often beneficial. Have some fun, go out with friends, play other games, do sports, lift some weights. When you do come back, I assure you you'll come back even better! And yeah: the actions from the devs were subtle but they directly affect how we can play the damn game. Sometimes even an insignificant numerical difference in a decimal value makes all the difference between dying or winning the round. 👻
@@NovaSeiken yeah i realized i was done with this game when i genuinely caught myself being bored of yoshimitsu. you know they fucked up when ME of all people gets bored of this character. zero experience or creativity required anymore just use your defensive tools and abuse your strong buttons. time to be a boxing nerd again until season 2 lmao
I completely agree with this. I have from day one still stuck with the defensive approach and I love knee for sticking to it because. He's getting deeper and deeper better at the game while destroying its fundamentals. I think they know about this but they like you said they want to force an interaction in the battles straight away.
During one of Spag's heatspeak, Joka said buffing movement specifically backdash would fix so much problem. He didn't dive into details so people kinda dismissed what he said. I'm glad you made a video talking about this.
He was right on the money when mentioning that giving effectiveness to movement would organically solve *so many issues,* that I can assure you with peace of mind. 👻
You aren't technically blocking when backdashing... you are backdashing. I kinda like it catches people who constantly backdash buuut I'm a hardcore rushdown playstyle using frame data focus instead of footsies
@@psicho9217 you are blocking when backdashing. mash b b b b and you'll never get hit by mids. the exception is when you're at heavy minus and you get caught at the neutral input when the recovery animation ends.
"skill gaps are rendered obsolete" Unfortunately that is exactly what devs are aiming for with modern fighting games. its not an accident they could easily fix this, but they aren’t going to because the devs simply don't see it as a problem.
@@NovaSeiken it's like aim assist for call of duty it's never going away and as the time goes they keep increasing it's strength. they want the casuals to think they are better than they really are so they keep playing more. unfortunately every game nowadays is like that they focus on making the noobs feel better because they are the bulk of the player base.
It promotes brain dead mashing so much, ive reached raijin recently trying to learn more movement to bait wiff punish and i find myself losing way more bc im obviously learning, but i also notice they just fuckin mash mindlessly! Atleast blues it feels like this. Nobody is lesrning the match up or cares about spacing, its just mash to see what happens, adjust and mash again.
if people are mashing you literally just have to play a frame tight gameplan with CH and grabs, in blue ranks you will win most of your games this way. Always confirm your plus with something in your framewindow or with CH launchers if possible and watch how quickly they start to play defensively.
I remember pointing this out back in patch 1.08 where they buffed Feng's heats smash to counter players from backdashing out of "Shifting clouds". It's crazy how many systems in this game actively help shrink the skill gap
They did a similar thing to Lars DEN3 by amping up its plus on block so much, so that it could not be option selected by a RA. The end result is that now there is NO effective counterplay to it and Lars gets to force the lottery on you as much as he wants because the plus was amped up so much that you will be mogged by SEN1 before even DARING to SSL duck. LMAO They don't realize the Frankenstein monsters they create on such oversights. XD In the past, they dynamited a whole city block in order to kill a cockroach called Akuma. They made a systematical change in the game in the hopes of targeting the guy and in the end, not only many characters got screwed because of him, but he himself found a solution to circumvent it and everyone else paid the price. LMAO
@NovaSeiken LOL I posted your video in the R/Tekken and my God are you hated 🤣. I keep telling people to watch the video because you bring up great points but they keep saying you're a legendary Jin downplayer. Also you're not lying about Lars. I know he's not S tier but he feels horrible to play against for the reason you states that homing mid HE into stance is ridiculous. It's similar to the BS Hwoarang gets away with his RFF DF3 HE. Could you make a video on how the changing of the tornado and every characters wall carrying ability has affected the game. T8 has completely nuked a lot of soft skills players had to learn and develop. Probably the reason Fujin is the highest rank
@Razzlekhan-t4q You have no idea the amount of hatred there is against me on Tekken Reddit, man... 😅 It is *organized hate,* not the usual internet hate you are used to seeing everywhere. (The lengths these people went to harm a person just for the sake of hate is... really beyond me. 😕)
I honestly think this is my biggest issue with T8 and I didn't even know it. It feels like glue getting away from people's attacks sometimes. It is also interesting how T7 made sidesteps inconsistent, and now T8 swapped that issue with backdashing instead. It would be great if sidestepping AND backdashing could work well.
not only the backdash is nerfed, but the moves have insane hitbox, reach, AND tracking ability...while offense is so much more oppressive and way too fucking rewarding compared to good defense. You're actually punished for defending moves now also because of the retarded chip damage. I wish they get rid of all chip damage, and if they want to keep it, ONLY allow it if your opponent is in Heat, that's it.
Thing is t8 sidesteps not even as good if you compare it to previous games prior to t7, like it certainly is buffed but either the tracking or hitboxes on lots of moves are also buffed big time which kind of kills the purpose of improved (in comparison to t7) sidesteps. And considering the tradeoff of having such a shitty backdashes, this sidestep buff is absolutely not worth it if you ask me
@@DESUstroke based on the moves like Leo B14 and how you can SSL it, it's a lot easier in T8, even Bryan can do it a lot better, and some others i've tried, the SS is better for sure IMO, BUT the actual problem is, so many stupid moves have ridiculous tracking that just cancels it out, hence it looks like SS isn't buffed, when it actually is. That's my biggest issue with sidestepping moves, the fucking tracking needs to be toned the fuck down, getting annoying af
This really made my day, bro. Thank you so much for the kindness and this level of recognition. 😄 I did put my heart into this one, and I pray to God it reaches the right hands so that we can hope for a change on this sad reality. We need to be vocal about our discontent while showing *what exactly* is the cause of it.
Combos have gotten even longer as well and I think that adds to the issue. I understand people want to do cool shit (who doesn’t?), but it shouldn’t come at the cost of interactivity for both sides of the spectrum. - a bystander’s opinion
Yeah: Heat Burst and Heat Dashes count as extra combo extenders. They at least did a great job on the *scaling* department in a sense that even though the combos are way more extended, they don't deviate that much from the damage standards we would expect in T7.
It gets to the point where if you get launched once then you might as well put your controller down and go do something else as you’re stuck in that death combo with you unable to do anything about it.
@@cuddlingfemboysirl dude, ong the combo times in tekken 8, with 2 stage interactions, heat dashes, heat engager start, and a rage art, is the NORMAL time it takes for one bnb in an anime fighter straight up. thank the heavens its no where close to dbfz super broly having minute long combo's....
This is my biggest issue with t8,game revolving around chip damage, insane aggression, powercrushes, heat burst 50/50s and yet kbd is rendered useless and you get clipped even while blocking and back dashing... you're the first to properly acknowledge one of the biggest issues and i hope this vid blows up further, this game is just exhausting at times
That is quite telling when it comes to the severity and urgency of this issue. It is widespread and directly affects the game experience to the worse for everyone, to varied degrees. Put some heart into this video in the hopes that we can change this reality for the best or at least make our voices heard. And thank you so much for your kindness, man. 😄
You have just done more for the tekken community than all the streamers in bamcos payroll combined. Thank you very much for the video and keep going with the great work!! Congrats!!!
This level of recognition and appreciation REALLY made my day, bro. Thank you SO MUCH for it. I did put my heart into this in an effort and in the hopes of positive change. We can voice our discontent while pointing *exactly where.*
Finally someone makes a detailed video on the backdash discrepancy going from T7 to T8. I already knew that they were mostly nerfed across the board, but man seeing it affect certain anti-blockstring defense is facken annoying. Good stuff as always. Not gonna lie, I mistakenly thought that somehow Bryan's orbital after db3 had gotten a stealth range buff in T8, but this video shows it was actually the system kbd nerf that affected that sequence and not the orbital lol
I learnt KBD as a teal ranker back in 7 and it made me in love with the game more than spaming strings. I hope the devs do see that the fun comes from grinding, not just winning with guessing games.
Same, the movement and skillful stuff is what drew me to tekken in the first place, not the idea that I can just win without having to put a little time into the game.
Thank you for the kindness and appreciation, bro. I mean it for real. We need to be vocal about this... We need to mobilize and change this reality somehow!
@@doublejacketjimmy391 People just love to spew things to glaze the people they support. More people are vocal about it than not, Sir Nova just brought the receipts(cold-hard numbers).
@@tek87 I wouldn't say they're glazing the game as its the best of the series ever, they just like the game I think. TMM is a tekken fanboy and he didn't miss any tekken game since the first release he'll play any Tekken game. PhiDX is just type of a guy who has very open minded and optimistic approach to anything. They still criticize the game they just don't hate post about the game. I cant say for the other though because I've yet to see people being happy about tekken direction besides FF fanboys who's happy about Clive.
After watching many of your videos multiple times, I think this may be your best work, Nova. The points are concise, well elaborated, and well researched. Well done. You produce some of your best work when you see an issue with Game Design elements and work to correct or think through the problems.
I'm with everybody here. I'm so glad this video has been made by someone. I don't have the capacity to do it, but you've done it. Thank you so much for spreading this because it's one of the things that really gets on people's nerves when they play Tekken 8. Compared to Tekken 7. Yes, Tekken 8 is a completely different approach over the Game being aggressive so it's designed like that so you can't hate on the fact that it's different. It needs to be different. Now the problem is it's not very nice. It hurts mentally and is a stress creating problem which we don't need. This is why a lot of people get very frustrated with Tekken 8 On a professional level. It's fun, but to only some extent with the huge and I mean huge depressive effect.
Thank YOU for this level of appreciation and recognition, man... that's what. 😄 Really made my day. You will always be welcome here. Let's make our voices heard.
Namco: Skill Gap is a issue, let's make Tekken a 2D Fighter (Tekken 7) Namco: Skill Gap is still a issue let's make Tekken a ORBITAL Fighter (Tekken 8)
Hopefully this gets addressed in season 2 when they say they are going to fix defense. But nah all this is by design to make the game lean more towards luck rather than skill and is one of the reasons why we have so many 50 50 mix ups
Lol i thought my stick was messed up bro, even changed out my lever because of how many times i got clipped by a stray mid while holding back. Even looked in my replays to see myself holding back and still getting hit, this is a major issue if its a bug, that means people arent even earning their wins. We need fixes and a rank reset
The fact I always questioned why I was always getting clipped doing kbd and why it seems like everybody’s moves have a vacuum has finally been answered. I been in Tekken since T2 and the movement and spacing didn’t feel suspicious until T8.
subbed, im taking a break from t8 until the balance update drops. t7s whiff punishment and counter play was so kinetic and special. t8 feels stiff and a frustrating mash fest. the worst aspects of tekken is when you have to decide rather to mash or block every 2 seconds.
No idea why people still have faith in this dev team. Tekken 8 has only gotten worse since launch while greedy monetization has skyrocketed with worthless battlepasses and paid stage DLCs. All my trust has been lost in Harada, Bamco, and the dev team that I truly hope this game fails and VF completely takes over. No more esports, no more evos, no more tournaments. This game has become one-sided, predictable, and extremely boring to watch. The only hope left for them is a re-release of Tekken 5DR on modern consoles with full rollback and crossplay. Otherwise Tekken is forever dead to me and I'm never coming back.
I guess bamco got fed up with KBD complainers from T7 and just killed KBD all together its a win win for bamco because they dont have to deal with balancing KBD, plus for some reason they always view tech like that as very intimidating for newcomers hence they gave them b,b option. Meanwhile hardcore players are stuck in a mud and punished for mastering KBD and movement.
yesss! so sad that tekken creators aren't diving into this issue. everything that they did to buff offense, stances, and plus frames in this game is much more annoying when movement is also bad or inconsistent. shoutout to you!
ċôņśpiracy•thěöry: Bamco released the game in a state that would feel most REWARDING to the most fickle of players-newcomers; With EVERY intention of giving everyone back their beloved backdash, ONCE sales leveled off and the game became stale. At the most opportune time, they patch in everyone’s movement, after any newcomer who’s still playing T8 would have become married to the game; so much so that they don’t outright leave following the not-so-rewarding changes to movement being reimplemented. This is me giving Bamco the benefit of the doubt. But I have nothing to offer as to WHY Drag’s movement would be left intact. Disgusting.
I’m going to college for game design. This vid has inspired me, as I planned on making a tag/traditional fighter anyway, but I’ll take this into consideration Thank you!😊
You really made my day with this comment. Thank you so much for your kindness and the recognition. I will subscribe to your channel just to get to see your dream eventually come true.
Been saying the same since beta. The gutting of backdash causes the most grief in this game. The other mechanics just exaggerate the problem even more. Back in 7, I always used to argue with people when they complained about Kunimitsu/Alisa/Zafina movement. People would argue that those characters shouldn't get to avoid things others couldn't. And my response to that was always that we shouldn't get mad at those characters for being able to move, but get mad that eveyone else's movement got shot so hard to begin with. I can't help but think that people's complaint about DLC movement may have played a role in what we got here. Instead of advocating for BETTER universal movement, a lot of the community bitched about "endless backdashing". Well, they got their wish. The utility of the mechanic barely exists now, and I don't think we're better off for it.
The case for T7 Zafina was sort of game-breaking because pretty much *no amount of closing in* could prevent a whiff in so many instances... 👻 T7 Zafina player backdashed *already buffering df2* knowing full well 90% of the moves would hit the air: if the move reached she just blocked it and life went on. But I do agree we definitely could've reached a middle ground on this... that we could push for _a standard of reasonably effective movement_ and it's also a fact that the hostility and hate on DLC movement pushed Namco into embracing the worst outcome possible! 😅💀 We're now living the worst timeline because of misunderstandings, resentment and hostilities of the past. 🥴 Now we're glued in on the aggressor and *we can't get away for sh*t!* Thank you for your insight, man. You will always be welcome here. 😄
You have to see it from a financial perspective, movement was creating a huge skill gap and since movement takes years to learn they had to get rid of it to attract the mass, to attract more casual players. Tekken is not a sport that can exist forever, it's still a video game that is made to make profits. A company's target is growth so surely they'll make huge changes sometimes to reach their goals. I believe it was Tekken's turn to be "changed". From what I've seen and what I'm feeling, this isn't gonna change anytime soon, it even looks like s2 will have more mixups. The developers have a certain direction for sure and apparently they'll stay in that direction.
It's a bit tragic that you had to put so much research into a problem that many people could intuitively tell was effecting Tekken 8. Being stuck, TRAPPED by an opponent's offensive pressure is intensely frustrating, especially when you know for a fact that bizarre YOLO strategies would be easily blown up in previous games. Another well put together video, man! Hopefully people don't take the work put into this for granted.
Thank you so much for this level of recognition and appreciation, man... I DID put my heart into this because I see a sense of urgency revolving around this issue. It's egregious and I don't want to experience an entire season of Tekken where the defender is superglued into the mindless aggressor. I *sincerely believe* addressing this would bring a more enjoyable Tekken experience to everyone! Again: thank you so much for your kindness, man. I do hope the effort is worth it. I hope people can be vocal about it if they ever reach this vid.
As someone that tried only t8 im just sad how much better t7 seems to have been that ive been robbed. Why isnt everyone asking for these things to be fixed?
I don't really usually watch your videos, but man this time u really pointed out something that's been itching me, law too has a disgusting backdash it is really impossible to make whiff anything, it has always been a integral part of his gameplan with 3+4 and b2 but now it's trash. Let alone some bugs other pointed out, neutral guard not working after heat dash, random low CH working for no reason, not sure if tekken 7 was this bugged on release but this is really a huge problem.
@man1234-t2p You will always be welcome here, bro. And yeah: I specifically focused in the usage of his 3+4 as a whiff punisher to demonstrate it. It was an integral part of his T7 self. Just like Jin, Law is afflicted with the _Cursed Backdash_ category that came to exist in T8. 🥴
I havent always agreed with some of your Jin takes especially on reactability and movement but Ive never doubted your passion and loyalty this franchise and knowing what made it great. I hope more people will see and acknowledge this because the toxic positivity around Tekken 8 is making me sick. Keep doing spreading the good word Nova
@@er7776 Thank you so much for this level of recognition, man. I mean it for real. 😄 You're perfectly entitled to disagree on subjects like reactability because that is subjective and varies from person to person indeed. I respect that, it's alright. Know you will ALWAYS be welcome here regardless of any disagreement. You're legit legit and you made my day because of this comment. You proved to be way, way above the mindless, rabid, irrational hate I'm so used to when it comes to disagreements. You showed people can disagree and still be wholesome, kind and fair to each other. Thanks, man.
@@NovaSeiken Thanks man I honestly didnt expect such a wholesome reply back especially that quickly. I really appreciate it. Yeah reactions will always be subjective. I'm glad you have always acknowledged that fact and always did your due diligence when discussing topics like this. Even when i disagreed, ive never unsubbed from your channel because discourse and arguments are important for the FGC, thats what makes us a community. Thats why i'm so disappointed in the lack of conversations on T8. We need stuff like Wavedash podcast back. It is weird that people came down hard on T7 S3(deserved) but on T8 it has been quiet from most creators that did speak up then. Also the people hating on you blindly are idiots. Kinda sad that this is what the internet has become, getting actively hated on for stating opinions and actually doing research by randoms that don't even test out what you said to see for themselves. But yeah real recognise real. Hope you have a great year of content creation man
I knew i wasn't crazy. I find it nearly impossible to side walk strings in T8. Non-tracking linear moves will chase me in a circle nearly *cough, Lars* guess movement all around has been tampered with.
yes we need more people to point this out. i knew something wasn't right with the hitbox range problem especially with string moves for most of the character when i played, like there's some kind of magnet on certain moves even when i supposedly out of range or side steping. this video just makes everything clear for me. FIX this ASAP T8 dev team!
I remember being hyped about T8 movement when I saw Kazuya evading Jin's b2,1 into EWHF with a single backdash in the very first trailer, I thought they showed this scene in slow motion to emphasize the movement. Then the game dropped and you cannot replicate it in game. Even worse, backdashes are not that good and creating whiffs is very hard. In my opinion, it makes the game much harder on the defender as you rely on luck or reads on mid/high situations instead of having high coverage defense by moving even with the buffed lateral movement because of how a lot of moves shut down sidesteps (non-homing moves having too good tracking). I think it is wasted potential that some characters have good keepout and whiff punishes like Jin or Lee but their movement is so bad that they cannot really use that strength in game. They addressed some points very well imo like removing CH launchers or changing them into CH + guaranteed followup/mixup, grey health but the movement, man, needs to be great again. ecd1 whiff punishes don't happen so often in this game😢.
Is really lame because defense and countering is the truly fun part of tekken. Offense is just a fleeting little dopamine dump. But the game incentivizes you to not play defense so people just trade flowcharts. ESPECIALLY because ranked matches are first to 2 and you cant do long sets in casuals. By the time you figure out how to defend against your opponent and true mindgames can evolve and satisfying tekken can happen, the match is over. Ranked is like tekken as a pocket/mobile game where you just roll dice
Thank you for Practical Example VI with Bryan. That specific move has been pissing me off so fucking much in T8 and now I can finally see why, because it never used to be like that in T7. I still have the old instincts and they keep fucking me over...
Not being able to easily space orbitals is beyond frustrating... Dude legit tried to launch you with a low-crushing mid. Turns out you didn't create the whiff, and turns out *he's not even that minus* after you blocked it! He still has frames to work with. 🥴
Unfortunately i predicted all of this, - They started adding BS already during t7, sweeps that track both ways, leroy db3, Fahkumram FC df3 - then yoshi got wall stun in s4 - movement in t7 is actually significantly weaker than in tag 2, - there were also insane mid safe markings like Leroy's b4, i don't think that any fast mid marking should ever be safe. - I noticed more and more back flips that would put you in 50/50 However in t8 all of that is on steroids, it's too much about mashing upclose and 50/50
Ive been wondering about this for a while. So far my theory is that when you are moving backward and/or activeley blocking, the character models collision box becomes bigger. Add to that the nerfed kbd
It definitely does. I've tested in practice situations where sidestepping and doing nothing will not get me hit, but if I sidestep-block then the opponent's attack will make contact with me, forcing me to block the move.
clive wr2 is +14 on block and it's range is 5 thousands kilometers and you can't dare to step it because f1+2 also has 5 hundred million miles of range the only reasonable way to beat this interaction and not take the mixup of 2 safe mids, three -12~-14 mids and 2 lows is to powercrush COINCIDENTALLY clive also has 5 bajillion decimiles range armor that has so many active frames it beats dragunov's armor and also is completely safe if not up close
lows beat powercrush tho :( hard agree though, Clive in T8 feels like he belongs in SoulCalibur (where *everyone* has weapons and the movement is also not hot ass), and not Tekken.
@@ragnarok7452 But it certainly looks better. I doubt VF6 will dethrone Tekken in 3d sphere immediately but it will most likely get the good chunk of tekken fanbase to their side. I'm all for pushing Tekken devs out of their comfort zone and improving the game.
this, abundance of mid crushes, janky hurtbox affecting sidesteps, tracking strings. i refuse all these stuffs are intentional, if it is, all hope is lost for the future of tekken
Thank you for this!! It always bothered me in the back of my head, watching top tier players hardly ever forcing a heat break, or a heat smash to whiff completely no matter how well their spacing is
Thank you so much for your kindness once again, man! 😄 I really put my heart into this because I sincerely believe addressing this issue will bring a more enjoyable Tekken experience for everyone. 👻
This video should have a million and 1 likes, this video should be heard and seen by everyone involved with tekken. Tekken 8 is a trash game and it will not stay alive for long if it stayed like this.
Its still petty easy to create space if you use the the clean b,db,b input. I get a ton of whiff situations with leo But I'll admit back dash is noticeably weaker, and I don't really mind. From tag 2 to t7 ss was gutted for strong back dashes for many characters. In t7 defense was a ton of backdash spam and ch fishing. In t8 Sidestep is so viable. I get more damage from movement than i ever did Edit--- I commented b4 I watched. Thx for the lab work on leo, I never knew her kbd was better than others
The messed up thing with T8 is that they are trying to fix a problem that THEY introduced in T7. If you could side-step effectively in T7, people wouldn't be back-dashing the entire time. They would actually try to engage.
FINALLY SOMEBODY ADMITS IT. This is the single worst thing for Lars in the entire game of Tekken 8. His hitboxes are balanced like a T7 character which immediately puts him behind completely everybody else. Sidestepping is even more trash in T8 and the news they fed us telling us Sidestepping is good in T8 is a fuckin lie.
Amazing amazing video 👏 Please continue to demonstrate what every true tekken fan is thinking Idk why you get hate Even if ppl disagree with your opinion on jin being reactable, your overall point has always been that he's been scrubbified and you'd rather take a more complex char to play over big easy moves, even if reactable That's how i feel about this whole game There's no consistency Just crushing properties and 50 50s The one thing i love is movement And this video clearly shows why i hate this game
@@ITRiBUTEI Thank you so much for your appreciation, bro. And thanks for being so kind and reasonable: you went way beyond the irrational hate and the demonic image haters depict me as a person. I am so glad you get the message I tried to convey. This goes beyond characters in particular. Addressing this issue would bring a more enjoyable and legitimate Tekken experience for everyone, I *sincerely believe* that! Again: thank you so much for this display of humanity and you will always be welcome here in my channel. 😄
@@NovaSeiken Every video you've made (that I've watched) has been super respectful and informational(easily displayed for people to understand), but most are only able to think in black or white "What's that?! You made 10 crucial factual points and gave 1 opinion, well I'm gonna attack the only thing i can and ruin your image!" Its actually sad that some people (won't name) are able to grow their channel and become "part of the community" off of trashing you Unfortunately, that's the perfect way to describe this game and its new core fanbase Disingenuous Keep doing your thing bro. Real Tekken fans know the truth (And for anyone out there, no, real Tekken has nothing to do with how good you are. It's about understanding the core concepts we all grew up with, whether you can perform them or not)
they did that to make the game easier to a casual audience. you don't have to get good if you can mash buttons and it just works. 7 rewarded patience, 8 rewards risks. Poeple in gold ranks with like 30-50 defense, and the hitbox problem is the reason why majority of the players are in Fujin where when you look at 7 Garyu was the cut off for casual play. Anything above Garyu was considered intermediate, blue was considered high, and gold was super high/pro level.
i agree, the game has become so fucking low IQ....it's just mash mash mash and you get rewarded for it when it takes zero IQ, while defending it is MUCH MORE difficult, it's kinda embarrassing sometimes to see just how stupid af the game has become, just look at Clive and his F 1+2 and 1+2 spamming....it's pretty disgraceful what the game as become. Given how tiny as hell the wall maps are, why did they even nerf backdash? and the moves track you with this insane reach and hitbox, so many times, you really have no option or counterplay other than just stand there and guess the mix up, and many times you're forced into a mix up situation with no options except take a fucking guess, and there is a reason so many people especially streamers and even pros/former pros and popular tekken streamers who used to stream T7 regularly, now barely stream much. Even Knee, who makes a living out of Tekken and his streaming, used to stream T7 regularly like 4-5 days a week, but when you see since T8 launch, he barely streamed 1-2 times a week? he has gone for WEEKS without streaming at all also, and so many Tekken players lost their passion for the game. And you got idiots going "well you're gonna get new people in, and Clive will bring in new player bruh, like the Final Fantasy fans" well, sure but thats a short term goal, they're gonna drop the game after like 2 weeks anyway, and the actual tekken players who continue to play the game and pros who compete and keep the game relevant will leave, and many have already left, so you're left with nothing in the future. So it's a very short sighted way of trying to make sales but the future looks bleak if they continue this trend. Even as a life long tekken player, and a hardcore one, even I'm playing less and less of Tekken because it's so exhausting and repetitive, and boring after just 1 hour or so, kinda losing my passion for a game series that we all love
Nice video! It's funny because I definitely used to whiff my attacks more in T7 and after some time playing T8 I was like: "man I'm not whiffing at all now, am I really getting better at this?", but nowadays it's apparent that the game was helping me 😂 Also thanks for putting in the disclaimer about approaching the issue with a positive and constructive mindset, I also think this is the best way to handle it. Amazing stuff.
We have to be constructive. Doomposting will take us nowhere. We all want the game to thrive and that it becomes a balanced, enjoyable, fulfilling experience.
It also feels like every character don't have range problems, but in exchange, killing the movement aspects of every character that they can uniquely do.
I was literally saying this to myself today, people can just fly at you constantly in this game and trying to create space just feels pointless, don’t even get me started on the jank hitboxes and getting hit while side walking or stepping
You made my day with your kindness, bro! 😄 Thank you so much for that. Know you will always be welcome here. I did put my heart into this project in the hopes that raising awareness would eventually effect a change for the better. Addressing this issue would bring a more enjoyable Tekken experience for everyone, I sincerely believe that! 👻
In simple words “game is dogshit” it will take years for all issues to get fixed, not worth playing. Unless you gain income from it, or are a sponsored pro. other then that, it’s not worth playing
Thank you so much for the appreciation, man. 😄 You will always be welcome in my channel. Let's make our voices heard and hope for the best! If this could reach the mainstream influencers somehow... maybe there is a chance for real change for the better. I sincerely believe addressing this issue would bring a more enjoyable Tekken 8 experience to everyone!
I dropped this game in June last year, just couldn't stand how everything was handled. I've always played with lots of sidestepping, backdashing, turtling and pokes; that is totally out the window in T8.
this is a great informational video, thank you for bringing light to this issue. i wonder if they will get rid of this movement/evasion hierarchy they’ve created in this game
I'm not personally against hierarchies _as long as everyone gets to work by a _*_playable standard_*_ instead of being relegated to misery._ It makes the game richer when some characters are naturally more evasive and can create remarkable whiffs that others normally wouldn't. But to be completely unable to create the most basic, essential and crucial whiffs is hella depressing. 😑 That is my main concern. Nevertheless, thank you SO MUCH for your appreciation, bro. You will always be welcome here. 😄
I never hear any "pro players" talk about this problem. They only complain about the 50/50's and not the fact that only certain characters are allowed to move while the rest have to play a 2D game and after watching Ulsan Vs Mulgold playing Clive Vs Clive, it literally was a 2D game. I already uninstalled after the Clive announcement due to my growing frustrations with the system mechanics, but I really hope the devs have a change of heart and reintroduce the "3D" aspect of the game again. Until then, I'm moving to Virtua Fighter to play a 3D fighting game for once, and I know I'm not the only one doing so.
they should increase backdash range for the first few, then make them worse. basically increase close range mobility and decrease mid-long range mobility that way there are more interactions AND there's more outplay potential based on movement
It's at least a reasonable compromise. It all depends on implementation and how effective the close-range/mid-range KBD would actually be. Tekken 4 tried something similar, but to disastrous consequences. But in that game, they wanted to FORCE close-ranged interactions. So... they made the game intentionally scramble your KBD inputs after range 2.5 just so that you cannot move backwards anymore. LMAO
What do you mean "by all people"? Neutral and movement has been my top priority in valuing Tekken gameplay since forever. It's literally everything to me, so it's only natural and even expected I would be one to address it. 🤔
@@NovaSeikenmaybe he means that it's disappointing that we haven't seen comprehensive coverage on this issue from the mainstream content creators. Mainman talks about it a little bit but only little complaints and gripes in passing, not something like a direct and concrete call to action with tons of supporting evidence and points
@@tongpoo8985 Or maybe they have ulterior reasons for being hesitant to confront the issues that really matter and not doing so in such an exposing, bare-naked, traumatic way like I did. Trust me: _if mainstream influencers REALLY wanted to speak their mind on this matter, they would._ There might be factors at play you're not really taking into account. Remember _VF6 is nearing before us, right across the street, and it's... quite promising to say the _*_least._* Or maybe I'm just completely mistaken and it's all just my imagination going wild. Just food for thought, my man. Know you will always be welcome here.
Even I, an absolute noob who button mashes with friends, noticed the lack of distance in backdashes paired with phantom range on attacks. I thought I was going crazy. Maybe this will be toned down a bit in season 2.
Lol I played Tekken 8 for a month when it released. I realized everything u covered in this vid. I just couldn't explain it. Thx for bringing me closure. I even considered giving it another try recently. U just saved me the wasted effort. I don't wanna play no shit like this!!! 😂
Man, even side steps have similar problems.
I think they fucked up the ue5 imports
I'll also try to make a video on this
You believe it to be an engine-related oversight?
When it comes to the backdashes specifically, I believe it to be intended design. They even came up with this novelty separate category of backdash with different behavior than regular backdashes...
But when it comes to lateral movement, I had a generally-positive experience with T8 so far. Aside from some insane stuff I've seen happening with friends and partners like strings autocorrecting or clipping deep sidewalks that are way past the side axis, the character already in the opponent's back... my personal experience has been very positive, _specially coming from T7 Jin_ so I'm taking whatever I can get. LMAO
Nevertheless, GO FOR IT. I'm eager to see your findings: the more awareness we raise, the better!
PS: I meant some crazy stuff like these LMAO ua-cam.com/video/wbpS4fIaYmE/v-deo.html
Please do. I really do wonder if all these issues are from a bad port over to UE5. Remember all the crazy issues with walls and people being able to go out of bounds on stages at release? Also characters phasing through each other when certain moves were triggered? Even now, being near the wall makes the camera go insane and causes really fucked up situations that never happened in T7.
I do really think they fucked up a lot of stuff coming over the UE5. But that could just be copium from me so I dont have to accept that this is really the direction they want to take this series...
@@NovaSeiken The string autocorrection is crazy. What I've seen is that every second high attack from any string (i.e. Dragunov's B4,3 which was fixed but I havent played T8 since) had tracking properties. While being a little difficult you could reliably sidestep duck.
Now the problem comes in when you, lets say, sidestep a hellsweep and the first low attack successfully whiffs but the second connects. In previous Tekken games it was a common thing to sidestep Kazuya's hellsweep and the second punch attack connects, but as a block. So no worries: just wait for the animation to end and launch.
Playing against my friend's Lars it is common that I sidestep the first low attack and the second connects... If he throws the mid he's done for. But if he goes for the high IT WILL AUTOMATICALLY CONNECT AND PUT ME IN A MIXUP SITUATION, unless I'm willing to commit to ducking and risk getting hit by that chonky kick.
This was a specific situation but the problem still happens pretty often with all kinds of specially 3 attack strings.
@@NovaSeiken I'm all for the awareness stuff and all that. The real challenge is to get the casual playerbase to care.
Change will happen if enough people make a fuss about it and affects their sales.
One good example is the stage drama. Harada himself apologized if I remember correctly.
If you can somehow get a massive chunk of the community care about hitbox issues enough for their sales to tank, that would be great.
@@AngeloGene You are right unfortunately, which is why I don’t have my hopes up… realistically, more than 95% of the player base do not care as long as the stuff happening on screen “looks cool”
"Why wiff and punish, when you can block and guess"-michael murray
@@SilverOcelot43 Don't do it dirty like that. LMAO
(It seems the Tekken playerbase will never forgive or forget this blunder... 👻)
@@NovaSeiken Because that statement describes a lot of what's wrong with Tekken currently.
Just block it dude
FINALLY, someone talks about this issue that you have to eat everything because hitbox is so thick on sidestep/backdash, on the top of that there is "neutral guard bug" that greatly turn off guarding when you're backdashing so you can get hit between backdash, this game has so many issues with blocking and no1 talks about it.
I made this one in the hopes it reaches the right hands so we as a community can mobilize, be vocal about our discontent and hopefully bring change for a better Tekken 8 experience for the future. 😄
the guard bug is most egregious with the lack you will be blocking or otherwise and phantom hits and or block just disappears as if they forget to add blocking to the game
cause offenzzz is da defenzzz mash muh buttons harder
Dude the amount I’ve gotten so confused on how I got hit when I’m literally not pressing anything action buttons but just Kbding or holding back but somehow I get fucking launched.
@@nejifn3078 Same here. I had no idea this was a thing. It answers a LOT of questions as to why I be getting launched when Im back dashing or side stepping. BTW side stepping is borderline useless outside of VERY specific situations.
yea i agree, i've been getting hit so much more when i swear i was holding back, something's up with the guard system, and even pros mentioned it, they're like "how did i get hit there???" and i've been backdashing the same exact way for the last 20 years, but only in T8, i've been getting hit so much all of sudden, and I'm in TGS ranks, TGP ranks in T7, so I know how to fucking backdash cancel lol....I also hope the hitbox on so many moves need to be nerfed, so many moves have this phantom range, it's ridiculous
It's my main problem, I see an opening and can't get it, the game won't let you punish like it used to. Now we just get messed up by mashers
It's not a mistake when they add insane range and forward movement in strings, high chip damage in heat, wall splatting heat smashes, insane tracking on non-homing moves like Kazuya ff2 in heat, etc. This is Mario Party 8 not Tekken 8.
@@Allblaster The sheer amount of evidence points to deliberate, intentional design, unfortunately.
If you're always glued in, the agressor gets the power to dictate.
But we need to voice our discontent on this matter regardless. It's the only way to improve the Tekken 8 experience for the future.
(I PRAY this project reaches the right hands... really put my heart into making this, hoping for a change for the better, eventually.)
Toxic positivity by influencers and pros... when the game came out, i got cussed live out by pros and streamers in their streams. just bcs i pointed out how upset i was so many cardinal tekkenrules were broken. They dont want to be negative bcs they are afraid of namco@@NovaSeiken
@Boro87 You might be onto something, my man...
I will still hold onto hope.
I pray this project fully exposing this issue was worth it.
@Boro87THIIIIISSS!!!
This is the first fighting game I’ve played seriously and I see these problems clearly. I can only play so many matches till I’m screaming at the screen because something visually didn’t reach me but still connects.
Absolutely insane that no content creator had made a comprehensive and in-depth video on this topic yet. With the absurd amount of tracking and forward movement added to strings, and the deliberate extensions of hitboxes to comical degrees, combined with the overall bad backdashes, we've all been feeling the effect of this for more than a year. It's obviously hard to get all the facts and evidence straight to discuss this topic and I'm glad someone's done it. Great content.
Really put my heart into this one and I thank you so much for this level of appreciation, man...
You will always be welcome here. 😄
Phidx is busy being a shill
Every well know tekken content creator is afraid of speaking the truth about this trash game, they r literally licking bamco asses u think they can put out any negative content about this game!?
Backdashes are really, really bad in this game because of that, but honestly, sidesteps feel better in this game than in t7. Maybe I just improved at tekken in general, but like damn near everything in t7 was hard to sidestep unless you time it perfectly or commit to a side-walk. In this one I can do smaller sidesteps to avoid stuff, and doing micro sidesteps when I'm at -2 or 3 feels more wortwhile. Just my perception. But I really miss tekken 5 backdashes, can you imagine how fun this game would be if we had that level of backwards movement? It would be so much fun, and turtling would still be harder than t7 since we'd still have heat as a universal resource and crazy advantage states.
Don’t forget things hitting you from behind the opponent lol
yeah this is the reason why i'm taking a break right now. this is the #1 most unspoken about issue currently and it's the tekken team's most subtle yet impactful way to create forced interactions, aside from sheer frame data and properties. genuinely a shame what they did to tekken man
Don't feel afraid of taking a break, man.
Taking a break from Tekken is often beneficial.
Have some fun, go out with friends, play other games, do sports, lift some weights.
When you do come back, I assure you you'll come back even better!
And yeah: the actions from the devs were subtle but they directly affect how we can play the damn game. Sometimes even an insignificant numerical difference in a decimal value makes all the difference between dying or winning the round. 👻
@@NovaSeiken yeah i realized i was done with this game when i genuinely caught myself being bored of yoshimitsu. you know they fucked up when ME of all people gets bored of this character. zero experience or creativity required anymore just use your defensive tools and abuse your strong buttons. time to be a boxing nerd again until season 2 lmao
I completely agree with this. I have from day one still stuck with the defensive approach and I love knee for sticking to it because. He's getting deeper and deeper better at the game while destroying its fundamentals.
I think they know about this but they like you said they want to force an interaction in the battles straight away.
As if it’s going to be changed once you come back from your “break”. They intentionally designed it this way. F’n accept it already or move on.
@Zetho No need for doomposting, man.
During one of Spag's heatspeak, Joka said buffing movement specifically backdash would fix so much problem. He didn't dive into details so people kinda dismissed what he said. I'm glad you made a video talking about this.
He was right on the money when mentioning that giving effectiveness to movement would organically solve *so many issues,* that I can assure you with peace of mind. 👻
Will Bandai Namco ignore this? YES
As long as it doesn't tank their sales, yes... They will ignore it.
Not if it reaches Twitter and Harada
The most annoying thing when you try to do neutral backdash and you get hit out of it for no reason
Yess
You aren't technically blocking when backdashing... you are backdashing. I kinda like it catches people who constantly backdash buuut I'm a hardcore rushdown playstyle using frame data focus instead of footsies
@@psicho9217 This wasn't a thing in other Tekken games
@@dantextornado I'm aware I've been here since Tekken 1 in the 90s. If that's how it is now we gotta adapt.
Edit: I also hate footsies
@@psicho9217 you are blocking when backdashing. mash b b b b and you'll never get hit by mids. the exception is when you're at heavy minus and you get caught at the neutral input when the recovery animation ends.
"skill gaps are rendered obsolete" Unfortunately that is exactly what devs are aiming for with modern fighting games. its not an accident they could easily fix this, but they aren’t going to because the devs simply don't see it as a problem.
Let's keep hope alive.
@@NovaSeiken it's like aim assist for call of duty it's never going away and as the time goes they keep increasing it's strength. they want the casuals to think they are better than they really are so they keep playing more. unfortunately every game nowadays is like that they focus on making the noobs feel better because they are the bulk of the player base.
It promotes brain dead mashing so much, ive reached raijin recently trying to learn more movement to bait wiff punish and i find myself losing way more bc im obviously learning, but i also notice they just fuckin mash mindlessly! Atleast blues it feels like this. Nobody is lesrning the match up or cares about spacing, its just mash to see what happens, adjust and mash again.
Facts
if people are mashing you literally just have to play a frame tight gameplan with CH and grabs, in blue ranks you will win most of your games this way. Always confirm your plus with something in your framewindow or with CH launchers if possible and watch how quickly they start to play defensively.
holding offense because you cant move out of it is tiring
I remember pointing this out back in patch 1.08 where they buffed Feng's heats smash to counter players from backdashing out of "Shifting clouds". It's crazy how many systems in this game actively help shrink the skill gap
They did a similar thing to Lars DEN3 by amping up its plus on block so much, so that it could not be option selected by a RA.
The end result is that now there is NO effective counterplay to it and Lars gets to force the lottery on you as much as he wants because the plus was amped up so much that you will be mogged by SEN1 before even DARING to SSL duck. LMAO
They don't realize the Frankenstein monsters they create on such oversights. XD
In the past, they dynamited a whole city block in order to kill a cockroach called Akuma. They made a systematical change in the game in the hopes of targeting the guy and in the end, not only many characters got screwed because of him, but he himself found a solution to circumvent it and everyone else paid the price. LMAO
@NovaSeiken LOL I posted your video in the R/Tekken and my God are you hated 🤣. I keep telling people to watch the video because you bring up great points but they keep saying you're a legendary Jin downplayer.
Also you're not lying about Lars. I know he's not S tier but he feels horrible to play against for the reason you states that homing mid HE into stance is ridiculous. It's similar to the BS Hwoarang gets away with his RFF DF3 HE.
Could you make a video on how the changing of the tornado and every characters wall carrying ability has affected the game. T8 has completely nuked a lot of soft skills players had to learn and develop. Probably the reason Fujin is the highest rank
@Razzlekhan-t4q You have no idea the amount of hatred there is against me on Tekken Reddit, man... 😅 It is *organized hate,* not the usual internet hate you are used to seeing everywhere.
(The lengths these people went to harm a person just for the sake of hate is... really beyond me. 😕)
I honestly think this is my biggest issue with T8 and I didn't even know it. It feels like glue getting away from people's attacks sometimes.
It is also interesting how T7 made sidesteps inconsistent, and now T8 swapped that issue with backdashing instead. It would be great if sidestepping AND backdashing could work well.
A man can only dream: a modern Tekken iteration with no sabotaged movement of any kind. 👻
not only the backdash is nerfed, but the moves have insane hitbox, reach, AND tracking ability...while offense is so much more oppressive and way too fucking rewarding compared to good defense. You're actually punished for defending moves now also because of the retarded chip damage. I wish they get rid of all chip damage, and if they want to keep it, ONLY allow it if your opponent is in Heat, that's it.
Tag 2 with rollback is a dream man
Thing is t8 sidesteps not even as good if you compare it to previous games prior to t7, like it certainly is buffed but either the tracking or hitboxes on lots of moves are also buffed big time which kind of kills the purpose of improved (in comparison to t7) sidesteps. And considering the tradeoff of having such a shitty backdashes, this sidestep buff is absolutely not worth it if you ask me
@@DESUstroke based on the moves like Leo B14 and how you can SSL it, it's a lot easier in T8, even Bryan can do it a lot better, and some others i've tried, the SS is better for sure IMO, BUT the actual problem is, so many stupid moves have ridiculous tracking that just cancels it out, hence it looks like SS isn't buffed, when it actually is. That's my biggest issue with sidestepping moves, the fucking tracking needs to be toned the fuck down, getting annoying af
Reposted on x. Thank you for trying to save Tekken.
This really made my day, bro.
Thank you so much for the kindness and this level of recognition. 😄
I did put my heart into this one, and I pray to God it reaches the right hands so that we can hope for a change on this sad reality.
We need to be vocal about our discontent while showing *what exactly* is the cause of it.
You mean twitter. only twats call it x
Combos have gotten even longer as well and I think that adds to the issue. I understand people want to do cool shit (who doesn’t?), but it shouldn’t come at the cost of interactivity for both sides of the spectrum.
- a bystander’s opinion
Yeah: Heat Burst and Heat Dashes count as extra combo extenders.
They at least did a great job on the *scaling* department in a sense that even though the combos are way more extended, they don't deviate that much from the damage standards we would expect in T7.
The long combos feel to anime and superficial imo
It gets to the point where if you get launched once then you might as well put your controller down and go do something else as you’re stuck in that death combo with you unable to do anything about it.
@@NhBleker and at that point you might as well go play a 2D anime fighting game where you die off of one jab whiff
@@cuddlingfemboysirl dude, ong the combo times in tekken 8, with 2 stage interactions, heat dashes, heat engager start, and a rage art, is the NORMAL time it takes for one bnb in an anime fighter straight up. thank the heavens its no where close to dbfz super broly having minute long combo's....
This is my biggest issue with t8,game revolving around chip damage, insane aggression, powercrushes, heat burst 50/50s and yet kbd is rendered useless and you get clipped even while blocking and back dashing... you're the first to properly acknowledge one of the biggest issues and i hope this vid blows up further, this game is just exhausting at times
You're killing it, man. This might be the fastest growing video in this channel.
That is quite telling when it comes to the severity and urgency of this issue.
It is widespread and directly affects the game experience to the worse for everyone, to varied degrees.
Put some heart into this video in the hopes that we can change this reality for the best or at least make our voices heard.
And thank you so much for your kindness, man. 😄
You have just done more for the tekken community than all the streamers in bamcos payroll combined. Thank you very much for the video and keep going with the great work!! Congrats!!!
This level of recognition and appreciation REALLY made my day, bro. Thank you SO MUCH for it.
I did put my heart into this in an effort and in the hopes of positive change.
We can voice our discontent while pointing *exactly where.*
Finally someone makes a detailed video on the backdash discrepancy going from T7 to T8. I already knew that they were mostly nerfed across the board, but man seeing it affect certain anti-blockstring defense is facken annoying. Good stuff as always. Not gonna lie, I mistakenly thought that somehow Bryan's orbital after db3 had gotten a stealth range buff in T8, but this video shows it was actually the system kbd nerf that affected that sequence and not the orbital lol
I learnt KBD as a teal ranker back in 7 and it made me in love with the game more than spaming strings. I hope the devs do see that the fun comes from grinding, not just winning with guessing games.
Same, the movement and skillful stuff is what drew me to tekken in the first place, not the idea that I can just win without having to put a little time into the game.
Same.
I once played casually with Dragunov in Tekken 8 and I was surprised how easy it is to dodge with SS unlike Law, I felt like I had no ankle weights!
one of the few creators not glazing t8, solid content 🔥
Thank you for the kindness and appreciation, bro. I mean it for real.
We need to be vocal about this... We need to mobilize and change this reality somehow!
Who's glazing Tekken 8 though? I lately see only complains me included.
@@doublejacketjimmy391
People just love to spew things to glaze the people they support.
More people are vocal about it than not, Sir Nova just brought the receipts(cold-hard numbers).
@@doublejacketjimmy391 TMM and PhiDX to name a couple. Some are defending this game like its the best Tekken ever.
@@tek87 I wouldn't say they're glazing the game as its the best of the series ever, they just like the game I think. TMM is a tekken fanboy and he didn't miss any tekken game since the first release he'll play any Tekken game. PhiDX is just type of a guy who has very open minded and optimistic approach to anything. They still criticize the game they just don't hate post about the game. I cant say for the other though because I've yet to see people being happy about tekken direction besides FF fanboys who's happy about Clive.
After watching many of your videos multiple times, I think this may be your best work, Nova. The points are concise, well elaborated, and well researched. Well done. You produce some of your best work when you see an issue with Game Design elements and work to correct or think through the problems.
You always make my day, bro.
Really put my heart into this one because this is BY FAR the most egregious issue of Tekken 8.
Right as always, mr Seiken. Imo, we need to buff backdash, equalize it with improved sidestep in T8. Current Tekken is a lot about guessing 50/50.
@@Samaelish A man can only dream... 👻
@@NovaSeiken Judging by the S2 trailer we will get more stance 50/50 pressure. Azucena/Jin are examples of it.
Literally tried to back dash Steves peekaboo options and couldn’t do it 😂 trash plyers will never understand how much of a difference this nerf makes
Thank you. This is exactly what I hate about Tekken 8.
Don't even mention it, bro. 👻
Let's make our voices heard!
I'm with everybody here. I'm so glad this video has been made by someone. I don't have the capacity to do it, but you've done it. Thank you so much for spreading this because it's one of the things that really gets on people's nerves when they play Tekken 8. Compared to Tekken 7. Yes, Tekken 8 is a completely different approach over the Game being aggressive so it's designed like that so you can't hate on the fact that it's different. It needs to be different.
Now the problem is it's not very nice. It hurts mentally and is a stress creating problem which we don't need. This is why a lot of people get very frustrated with Tekken 8 On a professional level. It's fun, but to only some extent with the huge and I mean huge depressive effect.
Thank YOU for this level of appreciation and recognition, man... that's what. 😄
Really made my day.
You will always be welcome here.
Let's make our voices heard.
them examples made me shed a tear
Hurts, _doesn't it?_ 😅
You will always be welcome here, bro.
Namco: Skill Gap is a issue, let's make Tekken a 2D Fighter (Tekken 7)
Namco: Skill Gap is still a issue let's make Tekken a ORBITAL Fighter (Tekken 8)
2D fighting games can also have skill gaps
Hopefully this gets addressed in season 2 when they say they are going to fix defense. But nah all this is by design to make the game lean more towards luck rather than skill and is one of the reasons why we have so many 50 50 mix ups
Even right now the guarding is buggy,even when you press back,you still get hit sometime.This is seriously annoying when you play ranked online
Lol i thought my stick was messed up bro, even changed out my lever because of how many times i got clipped by a stray mid while holding back. Even looked in my replays to see myself holding back and still getting hit, this is a major issue if its a bug, that means people arent even earning their wins. We need fixes and a rank reset
@ Yes it really a buggy mess right now.Hope they fix it right away.Waiting for season 2 patch on march/april is too long.They will lose players
I think it is just bad netcode. Also game has stuff which eats your input or misinputs it.
I truly never feel out of the woods when I’m playing T8
Not even the absolute best of the best on the planet would. 👻
The fact I always questioned why I was always getting clipped doing kbd and why it seems like everybody’s moves have a vacuum has finally been answered. I been in Tekken since T2 and the movement and spacing didn’t feel suspicious until T8.
subbed, im taking a break from t8 until the balance update drops. t7s whiff punishment and counter play was so kinetic and special. t8 feels stiff and a frustrating mash fest. the worst aspects of tekken is when you have to decide rather to mash or block every 2 seconds.
14:18 the water splash and the heat effect going off... Pure Absolute Cinema.
No idea why people still have faith in this dev team.
Tekken 8 has only gotten worse since launch while greedy monetization has skyrocketed with worthless battlepasses and paid stage DLCs. All my trust has been lost in Harada, Bamco, and the dev team that I truly hope this game fails and VF completely takes over. No more esports, no more evos, no more tournaments. This game has become one-sided, predictable, and extremely boring to watch. The only hope left for them is a re-release of Tekken 5DR on modern consoles with full rollback and crossplay. Otherwise Tekken is forever dead to me and I'm never coming back.
It's fking absurd the state of this. Tekken 8 COULD BE the aggressive dream game they wanted...IF THEY JUST let movement do what it's SUPPOSED TO DO!
Reasonably effective movement would already organically solve *so many issues* indeed... 👻
I guess bamco got fed up with KBD complainers from T7 and just killed KBD all together its a win win for bamco because they dont have to deal with balancing KBD, plus for some reason they always view tech like that as very intimidating for newcomers hence they gave them b,b option. Meanwhile hardcore players are stuck in a mud and punished for mastering KBD and movement.
yesss! so sad that tekken creators aren't diving into this issue. everything that they did to buff offense, stances, and plus frames in this game is much more annoying when movement is also bad or inconsistent. shoutout to you!
@@voodustyle Thank you so much for the appreciation, man.
Really put my heart into this one, hoping for a better Tekken experience in the future.
ċôņśpiracy•thěöry:
Bamco released the game in a state that would feel most REWARDING to the most fickle of players-newcomers;
With EVERY intention of giving everyone back their beloved backdash, ONCE sales leveled off and the game became stale.
At the most opportune time, they patch in everyone’s movement, after any newcomer who’s still playing T8 would have become married to the game;
so much so that they don’t outright leave following the not-so-rewarding changes to movement being reimplemented.
This is me giving Bamco the benefit of the doubt. But I have nothing to offer as to WHY Drag’s movement would be left intact. Disgusting.
A man can only dream... LMAO
I WISH this was the case. A freakin' commercial conspiracy that had limited, temporary effects. I really do. 😂
I’m going to college for game design. This vid has inspired me, as I planned on making a tag/traditional fighter anyway, but I’ll take this into consideration
Thank you!😊
You really made my day with this comment.
Thank you so much for your kindness and the recognition.
I will subscribe to your channel just to get to see your dream eventually come true.
@ I might start making content during or when I get out of college then man!
Many issues, but just like a dysfunctional family member, we try to love them just the same. Another great video! Much love, and be well!
There's a saying in my country:
"A Esperança é a última que morre."
("Hope is the last one to die.")
I'll miss T7 Jin so much. I will never like T8. Biggest disappointment ever.
Been saying the same since beta.
The gutting of backdash causes the most grief in this game. The other mechanics just exaggerate the problem even more.
Back in 7, I always used to argue with people when they complained about Kunimitsu/Alisa/Zafina movement.
People would argue that those characters shouldn't get to avoid things others couldn't.
And my response to that was always that we shouldn't get mad at those characters for being able to move, but get mad that eveyone else's movement got shot so hard to begin with.
I can't help but think that people's complaint about DLC movement may have played a role in what we got here.
Instead of advocating for BETTER universal movement, a lot of the community bitched about "endless backdashing".
Well, they got their wish. The utility of the mechanic barely exists now, and I don't think we're better off for it.
The case for T7 Zafina was sort of game-breaking because pretty much *no amount of closing in* could prevent a whiff in so many instances... 👻
T7 Zafina player backdashed *already buffering df2* knowing full well 90% of the moves would hit the air: if the move reached she just blocked it and life went on.
But I do agree we definitely could've reached a middle ground on this... that we could push for _a standard of reasonably effective movement_ and it's also a fact that the hostility and hate on DLC movement pushed Namco into embracing the worst outcome possible! 😅💀
We're now living the worst timeline because of misunderstandings, resentment and hostilities of the past. 🥴
Now we're glued in on the aggressor and *we can't get away for sh*t!*
Thank you for your insight, man. You will always be welcome here. 😄
I agree, I too was an advocate of giving everyone a better backdash rather than just nerfing the characters with actual backdashes.
You have to see it from a financial perspective, movement was creating a huge skill gap and since movement takes years to learn they had to get rid of it to attract the mass, to attract more casual players.
Tekken is not a sport that can exist forever, it's still a video game that is made to make profits. A company's target is growth so surely they'll make huge changes sometimes to reach their goals. I believe it was Tekken's turn to be "changed".
From what I've seen and what I'm feeling, this isn't gonna change anytime soon, it even looks like s2 will have more mixups. The developers have a certain direction for sure and apparently they'll stay in that direction.
Capitalism at its finest. No matter how much I see it, it'll always disappoint me.
It's a bit tragic that you had to put so much research into a problem that many people could intuitively tell was effecting Tekken 8. Being stuck, TRAPPED by an opponent's offensive pressure is intensely frustrating, especially when you know for a fact that bizarre YOLO strategies would be easily blown up in previous games.
Another well put together video, man! Hopefully people don't take the work put into this for granted.
Thank you so much for this level of recognition and appreciation, man...
I DID put my heart into this because I see a sense of urgency revolving around this issue. It's egregious and I don't want to experience an entire season of Tekken where the defender is superglued into the mindless aggressor.
I *sincerely believe* addressing this would bring a more enjoyable Tekken experience to everyone!
Again: thank you so much for your kindness, man.
I do hope the effort is worth it. I hope people can be vocal about it if they ever reach this vid.
As someone that tried only t8 im just sad how much better t7 seems to have been that ive been robbed. Why isnt everyone asking for these things to be fixed?
Harada don't wanta
@Tha-mountain yeah ofc, why bother when consumers arent even asking for it. they didnt wanna do rollback either until we demanded it
Incredible video bro, truly informative especially with those t7 videos in comparison.
@@nnagara7127 Really put my heart into this one, man.
We gotta be vocal about our discontent, while showing exactly why.
I don't really usually watch your videos, but man this time u really pointed out something that's been itching me, law too has a disgusting backdash it is really impossible to make whiff anything, it has always been a integral part of his gameplan with 3+4 and b2 but now it's trash. Let alone some bugs other pointed out, neutral guard not working after heat dash, random low CH working for no reason, not sure if tekken 7 was this bugged on release but this is really a huge problem.
@man1234-t2p You will always be welcome here, bro.
And yeah: I specifically focused in the usage of his 3+4 as a whiff punisher to demonstrate it.
It was an integral part of his T7 self.
Just like Jin, Law is afflicted with the _Cursed Backdash_ category that came to exist in T8. 🥴
I havent always agreed with some of your Jin takes especially on reactability and movement but Ive never doubted your passion and loyalty this franchise and knowing what made it great. I hope more people will see and acknowledge this because the toxic positivity around Tekken 8 is making me sick. Keep doing spreading the good word Nova
@@er7776 Thank you so much for this level of recognition, man.
I mean it for real. 😄
You're perfectly entitled to disagree on subjects like reactability because that is subjective and varies from person to person indeed.
I respect that, it's alright.
Know you will ALWAYS be welcome here regardless of any disagreement.
You're legit legit and you made my day because of this comment.
You proved to be way, way above the mindless, rabid, irrational hate I'm so used to when it comes to disagreements.
You showed people can disagree and still be wholesome, kind and fair to each other.
Thanks, man.
@@NovaSeiken Thanks man I honestly didnt expect such a wholesome reply back especially that quickly. I really appreciate it.
Yeah reactions will always be subjective. I'm glad you have always acknowledged that fact and always did your due diligence when discussing topics like this. Even when i disagreed, ive never unsubbed from your channel because discourse and arguments are important for the FGC, thats what makes us a community. Thats why i'm so disappointed in the lack of conversations on T8. We need stuff like Wavedash podcast back. It is weird that people came down hard on T7 S3(deserved) but on T8 it has been quiet from most creators that did speak up then.
Also the people hating on you blindly are idiots. Kinda sad that this is what the internet has become, getting actively hated on for stating opinions and actually doing research by randoms that don't even test out what you said to see for themselves.
But yeah real recognise real. Hope you have a great year of content creation man
I knew i wasn't crazy. I find it nearly impossible to side walk strings in T8. Non-tracking linear moves will chase me in a circle nearly *cough, Lars* guess movement all around has been tampered with.
yes we need more people to point this out. i knew something wasn't right with the hitbox range problem especially with string moves for most of the character when i played, like there's some kind of magnet on certain moves even when i supposedly out of range or side steping. this video just makes everything clear for me. FIX this ASAP T8 dev team!
Underrated video. Love you for making this video. More attention needs brought to Tekken 8 and it's lack of movement for spacing.
This level of appreciation made my day.
Thank you so much for this, bro. You will always be welcome here. 🤜🤛
And let's make our voices heard!
I remember being hyped about T8 movement when I saw Kazuya evading Jin's b2,1 into EWHF with a single backdash in the very first trailer, I thought they showed this scene in slow motion to emphasize the movement. Then the game dropped and you cannot replicate it in game. Even worse, backdashes are not that good and creating whiffs is very hard. In my opinion, it makes the game much harder on the defender as you rely on luck or reads on mid/high situations instead of having high coverage defense by moving even with the buffed lateral movement because of how a lot of moves shut down sidesteps (non-homing moves having too good tracking). I think it is wasted potential that some characters have good keepout and whiff punishes like Jin or Lee but their movement is so bad that they cannot really use that strength in game.
They addressed some points very well imo like removing CH launchers or changing them into CH + guaranteed followup/mixup, grey health but the movement, man, needs to be great again. ecd1 whiff punishes don't happen so often in this game😢.
Is really lame because defense and countering is the truly fun part of tekken. Offense is just a fleeting little dopamine dump. But the game incentivizes you to not play defense so people just trade flowcharts. ESPECIALLY because ranked matches are first to 2 and you cant do long sets in casuals. By the time you figure out how to defend against your opponent and true mindgames can evolve and satisfying tekken can happen, the match is over. Ranked is like tekken as a pocket/mobile game where you just roll dice
Thank you for Practical Example VI with Bryan. That specific move has been pissing me off so fucking much in T8 and now I can finally see why, because it never used to be like that in T7. I still have the old instincts and they keep fucking me over...
Not being able to easily space orbitals is beyond frustrating...
Dude legit tried to launch you with a low-crushing mid. Turns out you didn't create the whiff, and turns out *he's not even that minus* after you blocked it!
He still has frames to work with. 🥴
Damn, I miss jin voice from tekken 7, he sounds so cool
DAH!
We're so cooked😭😭 they already released another braindead sword character what makes us think they'd fix the hit boxes and the phantom ranges
Ive been hit by the air that hit the steam that came from Kings heat smash
Then characters like Alisa can back dash everything while being -6 range 0😢
Yes, she can. XD
Gotta be EXTRA careful with Jin d4 and db4 on her. A damn SINGLE backdash can cost you your life in many instances...
Unfortunately i predicted all of this, - They started adding BS already during t7, sweeps that track both ways, leroy db3, Fahkumram FC df3
- then yoshi got wall stun in s4
- movement in t7 is actually significantly weaker than in tag 2,
- there were also insane mid safe markings like Leroy's b4, i don't think that any fast mid marking should ever be safe.
- I noticed more and more back flips that would put you in 50/50
However in t8 all of that is on steroids, it's too much about mashing upclose and 50/50
I'm a casual .. is movement better in TTT 1 and Tekken 5 too ? I'm younger player but facinated by those old games
@Jonny93warriors movement in ttt1 and T5 is very good, i like playing these games. T5 DR is better than T5 tho cause they fixed lots of glitches
critical gameplay discussion detected, locking in ‼️‼️
I hope you appreciated it. 😄
Ive been wondering about this for a while. So far my theory is that when you are moving backward and/or activeley blocking, the character models collision box becomes bigger. Add to that the nerfed kbd
It definitely does. I've tested in practice situations where sidestepping and doing nothing will not get me hit, but if I sidestep-block then the opponent's attack will make contact with me, forcing me to block the move.
How did they nerf KBD?
@@tongpoo8985 covers less distance
clive wr2 is +14 on block and it's range is 5 thousands kilometers and you can't dare to step it because f1+2 also has 5 hundred million miles of range
the only reasonable way to beat this interaction and not take the mixup of 2 safe mids, three -12~-14 mids and 2 lows is to powercrush
COINCIDENTALLY clive also has 5 bajillion decimiles range armor that has so many active frames it beats dragunov's armor and also is completely safe if not up close
lows beat powercrush tho :(
hard agree though, Clive in T8 feels like he belongs in SoulCalibur (where *everyone* has weapons and the movement is also not hot ass), and not Tekken.
Tekken devs are going to cry their asses once VF6 releases
Tekken is in dire need of competition. *Real competition.*
I pray for VF6 success, as a big VF admirer and fanatic.
If VF6 would be like VF5, not really.
@@ragnarok7452 But it certainly looks better. I doubt VF6 will dethrone Tekken in 3d sphere immediately but it will most likely get the good chunk of tekken fanbase to their side. I'm all for pushing Tekken devs out of their comfort zone and improving the game.
this, abundance of mid crushes, janky hurtbox affecting sidesteps, tracking strings. i refuse all these stuffs are intentional, if it is, all hope is lost for the future of tekken
This a great video! Hope this video gets more traction. We really need better back dash with all this offence.
I feel like playing Tekken 7 again.
Thank you for this!!
It always bothered me in the back of my head, watching top tier players hardly ever forcing a heat break, or a heat smash to whiff completely no matter how well their spacing is
So Glad big Tekken youtubers watched your videos ❤
Trully a blessing and i'm happy for you
Keep doing amazing deep analyzed videos like this
Thank you so much for your kindness once again, man! 😄
I really put my heart into this because I sincerely believe addressing this issue will bring a more enjoyable Tekken experience for everyone. 👻
This video should have a million and 1 likes, this video should be heard and seen by everyone involved with tekken.
Tekken 8 is a trash game and it will not stay alive for long if it stayed like this.
Its still petty easy to create space if you use the the clean b,db,b input. I get a ton of whiff situations with leo
But I'll admit back dash is noticeably weaker, and I don't really mind.
From tag 2 to t7 ss was gutted for strong back dashes for many characters. In t7 defense was a ton of backdash spam and ch fishing.
In t8 Sidestep is so viable. I get more damage from movement than i ever did
Edit---
I commented b4 I watched. Thx for the lab work on leo, I never knew her kbd was better than others
The messed up thing with T8 is that they are trying to fix a problem that THEY introduced in T7. If you could side-step effectively in T7, people wouldn't be back-dashing the entire time. They would actually try to engage.
Precisely.
They reverted a grave mistake while creating another.
Ehh, as a King main Jaguar Step is still rarely worth it because you just end up being clipped by something and floated.
This video needs to go viral
This level of recognition and appreciation made my day, bro. Thank you so much for that. 😄
FINALLY SOMEBODY ADMITS IT. This is the single worst thing for Lars in the entire game of Tekken 8. His hitboxes are balanced like a T7 character which immediately puts him behind completely everybody else.
Sidestepping is even more trash in T8 and the news they fed us telling us Sidestepping is good in T8 is a fuckin lie.
Amazing amazing video 👏
Please continue to demonstrate what every true tekken fan is thinking
Idk why you get hate
Even if ppl disagree with your opinion on jin being reactable, your overall point has always been that he's been scrubbified and you'd rather take a more complex char to play over big easy moves, even if reactable
That's how i feel about this whole game
There's no consistency
Just crushing properties and 50 50s
The one thing i love is movement
And this video clearly shows why i hate this game
@@ITRiBUTEI Thank you so much for your appreciation, bro.
And thanks for being so kind and reasonable: you went way beyond the irrational hate and the demonic image haters depict me as a person.
I am so glad you get the message I tried to convey. This goes beyond characters in particular.
Addressing this issue would bring a more enjoyable and legitimate Tekken experience for everyone, I *sincerely believe* that!
Again: thank you so much for this display of humanity and you will always be welcome here in my channel. 😄
@@NovaSeiken Every video you've made (that I've watched) has been super respectful and informational(easily displayed for people to understand), but most are only able to think in black or white
"What's that?! You made 10 crucial factual points and gave 1 opinion, well I'm gonna attack the only thing i can and ruin your image!"
Its actually sad that some people (won't name) are able to grow their channel and become "part of the community" off of trashing you
Unfortunately, that's the perfect way to describe this game and its new core fanbase
Disingenuous
Keep doing your thing bro. Real Tekken fans know the truth
(And for anyone out there, no, real Tekken has nothing to do with how good you are. It's about understanding the core concepts we all grew up with, whether you can perform them or not)
they did that to make the game easier to a casual audience. you don't have to get good if you can mash buttons and it just works. 7 rewarded patience, 8 rewards risks. Poeple in gold ranks with like 30-50 defense, and the hitbox problem is the reason why majority of the players are in Fujin where when you look at 7 Garyu was the cut off for casual play. Anything above Garyu was considered intermediate, blue was considered high, and gold was super high/pro level.
i agree, the game has become so fucking low IQ....it's just mash mash mash and you get rewarded for it when it takes zero IQ, while defending it is MUCH MORE difficult, it's kinda embarrassing sometimes to see just how stupid af the game has become, just look at Clive and his F 1+2 and 1+2 spamming....it's pretty disgraceful what the game as become. Given how tiny as hell the wall maps are, why did they even nerf backdash? and the moves track you with this insane reach and hitbox, so many times, you really have no option or counterplay other than just stand there and guess the mix up, and many times you're forced into a mix up situation with no options except take a fucking guess, and there is a reason so many people especially streamers and even pros/former pros and popular tekken streamers who used to stream T7 regularly, now barely stream much. Even Knee, who makes a living out of Tekken and his streaming, used to stream T7 regularly like 4-5 days a week, but when you see since T8 launch, he barely streamed 1-2 times a week? he has gone for WEEKS without streaming at all also, and so many Tekken players lost their passion for the game.
And you got idiots going "well you're gonna get new people in, and Clive will bring in new player bruh, like the Final Fantasy fans" well, sure but thats a short term goal, they're gonna drop the game after like 2 weeks anyway, and the actual tekken players who continue to play the game and pros who compete and keep the game relevant will leave, and many have already left, so you're left with nothing in the future. So it's a very short sighted way of trying to make sales but the future looks bleak if they continue this trend. Even as a life long tekken player, and a hardcore one, even I'm playing less and less of Tekken because it's so exhausting and repetitive, and boring after just 1 hour or so, kinda losing my passion for a game series that we all love
We need to send this to the devs
Share it with your Tekken friends. Let's make our voices heard somehow.
Nice video! It's funny because I definitely used to whiff my attacks more in T7 and after some time playing T8 I was like: "man I'm not whiffing at all now, am I really getting better at this?", but nowadays it's apparent that the game was helping me 😂 Also thanks for putting in the disclaimer about approaching the issue with a positive and constructive mindset, I also think this is the best way to handle it. Amazing stuff.
We have to be constructive. Doomposting will take us nowhere. We all want the game to thrive and that it becomes a balanced, enjoyable, fulfilling experience.
You will always be welcome here, bro. 😄
@@NovaSeiken Exactly bro! doomposting only helps people farming engagement out of negativity. Thanks :D
It also feels like every character don't have range problems, but in exchange, killing the movement aspects of every character that they can uniquely do.
I was literally saying this to myself today, people can just fly at you constantly in this game and trying to create space just feels pointless, don’t even get me started on the jank hitboxes and getting hit while side walking or stepping
what an amazing video, you deserve more credit
You made my day with your kindness, bro! 😄
Thank you so much for that.
Know you will always be welcome here.
I did put my heart into this project in the hopes that raising awareness would eventually effect a change for the better.
Addressing this issue would bring a more enjoyable Tekken experience for everyone, I sincerely believe that! 👻
Awesome video!
Very informative.
Thanks for the appreciation, man. 🙏
In simple words “game is dogshit” it will take years for all issues to get fixed, not worth playing. Unless you gain income from it, or are a sponsored pro. other then that, it’s not worth playing
We can always hope for the best, man. 👻
In my country, there's a saying
"A Esperança é a última que morre."
("Hope is the last to die.")
It may not get fixed
@kushan_tk We can only keep the hope alive and we can always mobilize!
Let's make our voices heard.
excellent video, i hope it blows up and helps later for real changes
Thank you so much for the appreciation, man. 😄
You will always be welcome in my channel.
Let's make our voices heard and hope for the best!
If this could reach the mainstream influencers somehow... maybe there is a chance for real change for the better.
I sincerely believe addressing this issue would bring a more enjoyable Tekken 8 experience to everyone!
I dropped this game in June last year, just couldn't stand how everything was handled. I've always played with lots of sidestepping, backdashing, turtling and pokes; that is totally out the window in T8.
this is a great informational video, thank you for bringing light to this issue. i wonder if they will get rid of this movement/evasion hierarchy they’ve created in this game
I'm not personally against hierarchies _as long as everyone gets to work by a _*_playable standard_*_ instead of being relegated to misery._
It makes the game richer when some characters are naturally more evasive and can create remarkable whiffs that others normally wouldn't.
But to be completely unable to create the most basic, essential and crucial whiffs is hella depressing. 😑
That is my main concern.
Nevertheless, thank you SO MUCH for your appreciation, bro.
You will always be welcome here. 😄
I never hear any "pro players" talk about this problem. They only complain about the 50/50's and not the fact that only certain characters are allowed to move while the rest have to play a 2D game and after watching Ulsan Vs Mulgold playing Clive Vs Clive, it literally was a 2D game. I already uninstalled after the Clive announcement due to my growing frustrations with the system mechanics, but I really hope the devs have a change of heart and reintroduce the "3D" aspect of the game again. Until then, I'm moving to Virtua Fighter to play a 3D fighting game for once, and I know I'm not the only one doing so.
Great content as always
Thank you so much, man. 😄
Put my heart into this and I hope it was worth it.
they should increase backdash range for the first few, then make them worse.
basically increase close range mobility and decrease mid-long range mobility
that way there are more interactions AND there's more outplay potential based on movement
It's at least a reasonable compromise. It all depends on implementation and how effective the close-range/mid-range KBD would actually be.
Tekken 4 tried something similar, but to disastrous consequences.
But in that game, they wanted to FORCE close-ranged interactions.
So... they made the game intentionally scramble your KBD inputs after range 2.5 just so that you cannot move backwards anymore. LMAO
I thought i was hallucinating when i realized this. Backdashing not even really worth it in this game
This is especially hurtful to characters that depends on counter hits to do big damage like Steve and Lee.
I can't believe out of all people it's NovaSeiken that is addressing this issue lol
What do you mean "by all people"? Neutral and movement has been my top priority in valuing Tekken gameplay since forever. It's literally everything to me, so it's only natural and even expected I would be one to address it. 🤔
@@NovaSeikenmaybe he means that it's disappointing that we haven't seen comprehensive coverage on this issue from the mainstream content creators. Mainman talks about it a little bit but only little complaints and gripes in passing, not something like a direct and concrete call to action with tons of supporting evidence and points
@@tongpoo8985 Or maybe they have ulterior reasons for being hesitant to confront the issues that really matter and not doing so in such an exposing, bare-naked, traumatic way like I did.
Trust me: _if mainstream influencers REALLY wanted to speak their mind on this matter, they would._ There might be factors at play you're not really taking into account.
Remember _VF6 is nearing before us, right across the street, and it's... quite promising to say the _*_least._*
Or maybe I'm just completely mistaken and it's all just my imagination going wild.
Just food for thought, my man.
Know you will always be welcome here.
Great exposé! Thanks for this! Now BamCo devs should address this on the next major patch 😡😤
@@voltjutsu A man can only dream... 👻
Thank YOU for the appreciation, man. 🤜🤛
Even I, an absolute noob who button mashes with friends, noticed the lack of distance in backdashes paired with phantom range on attacks. I thought I was going crazy. Maybe this will be toned down a bit in season 2.
Lol I played Tekken 8 for a month when it released. I realized everything u covered in this vid. I just couldn't explain it. Thx for bringing me closure. I even considered giving it another try recently. U just saved me the wasted effort. I don't wanna play no shit like this!!! 😂
The State of Zanshin