Nova, the Community really appreciates your dedication to accurate information and thoughtful approach to video-making. Many video-makers in this space don't have any concept of Game Design or Game Theory, but you consistently display excellent understanding of the nuances in the Systems, and how Players use the Tools given to them to make situations happen in the Game. I noticed this happening a lot when I picked up Jin. Yes, 2, 1 being -3 High, Mid by itself is very strong, but when Down 4 Hits so consistently, 2, 1's power increases DRAMATICALLY. I also suspected that it was a combination of factors such as Jin's Range being superior to 7 in addition to Backdash being Nerfed across the board. But even if I suspected this, I did not have the insight of playing Jin in previous Tekkens as 8 is the only time I actually played Jin seriously. Thank you for the videos once again. I got Tekken Emperor on Jin in a matter of days once I started Rewatching your old Jin Videos and learning the Breaking Step Transitions. Free Electrics in Heat is very powerful, and even though I've never considered playing a Mishima I did end up actually wanting to learn how to WaveDash properly simply because being allowed to use the Tools (Electric) at a Cost (Heat instead of Execution) drove me to want to improve. Jin is a pretty cool Character :]
Bro. When you make videos getting into petty arguments with other you-tubers I always lose interest (because frankly, you're better than that...) But when you make videos going super in depths about core aspects of the mechanics I turn into the BIGGEST fan. Such a great video. So insightful. Keep up the good work dude.
Thank you so much for the kindness, Chad. I always have fun watching your content and your lighthearted humor. 😄 You're one of the realest Tekken bros out there! 🤜🤛
He was downplaying his poking game but he’s finally speaking on this stupid string right here. And I’m thinking we shouldn’t buff his lows because it seems that he’s already doing good in tournament.
@@FuriousKai _"Finally"_ ? I've been talking about the same issues since late 2023 (T8 CNT and CBT) at the very least. 🤔 I just kept covering these issues with more, more, more and more depth as time went by, since nothing was really done about it.
@@FuriousKaiAll tournament Jins got murdered by Atiff’s Dragunov. Not to mention they were not pro players who just picked up Jin they were all character specialists. So his tournament viability is exaggerated. He’s tormentor in ranked but not that strong as a tournament character.
He is talking about 214 that’s not a MASSIVE FEAT like the move is visibly broken plus if it was nerfed Jin would still be broken, nova is a down player he called kazuya better than Jin like twice back in t7 idk what your point is
When i started train my kbd, i thought i was doing the wrong input, because i got the same picture as you in kbd part, that explains why i could do it on other chars without problem. Thanks to you now i am not so tilted about not being able to kbd on jin. Great video, thx very much for it.
You were not hallucinating LMAO T8 Jin backdash is sabotaged. It is a new category of backdash that came to exist in order to help newbies who cannot KBD. With this new backdash, you can loop bb bb bb bb bb much faster than you ever would in traditional Tekken games. But this new special category of backdash sabotages the performance of people who DO know KBD.
You make it really hard to disagree with you. The backdash nerfs on most characters is a big reason why many moves/tactics that were stable in previous entries feel so oppressive and explosive now. The attacking character is given more opportunities strictly because they can "stick" to you more effectively. Many people forget that spacing is as big a part of a 3d fighter as side-stepping, so they overlooked how radical changes to the backdash result in radical changes to how you can respond to a move or a character. Another banger video, bro. Always enjoy seeing real analysis on youtube.
@@DolphinVEVO EXACTLY! Spot on, man... It's for people like you I do this shit. 🤜🤛 Having the actual capacity to backdash would organically solve/remedy SO MANY problems within Tekken 8 without even directly addressing problematic moves and abominations individually... Imagine not being put in obnoxious situations of completely broken 50/50 options in itself because *you didn't let the situation happen to begin with* by preemptively spacing yourself properly at all times.
I liked the idea of characters having different types of movement such as Big characters being able to leap backwards further than nomal but have worse sidestep/sidewalk, smaller characters having small hitboxes such as evading normally unsteppable moves (this should have a drawback such as shorter overall range on moves, or even better have superior sidesteps/sidewalk but slightly weaker backdash), and the balance being based on normal sized characters. I want skill expression on movement be more than just sidestepping and timing forward movement. Your videos give me hope that we get a more satisfyingly balanced Tekken that everyone can be proud of playing in the future, I Appreciate your work!
oh this is 100% on purpose this is why everyone says T8 is easier. 7:00 these dents so to say are purposely dropped on the entire roster of characters, some have a few others have a ton but overall without heavy breakdowns like this video presenting how T8 ruined defensive gameplay no one would understand the real meaning behind it. thank you for doing such effective work on casting a light on the bad balance design T8. could you perhaps in the future look into another running community issue with T8 frames sometimes missing a single or 2 whole frames due to animations bugging out and clipping faster than normal and sometimes slower than normal. it might say its a certain number of frames but sometimes the number doesnt match the animation at all but the game never registers a different number it just presents frames as if they arent even tied to the character and its just a functional display while hiding the real frame numbers being slightly random.
Stick around. My largest scale project will make you go *mental* in regards to how they deliberately killed defensive play from Traditional Tekken to forcibly shorten the skill gap in Modern Tekken. I promise it will not disappoint.
It was so disappointing to see backdash nerfed in this game. When T8 was first announced, in the reveal trailer 2 years ago, we see Kazuya backdash Jin's electric,, and we all thought that movement was gonna be buffed. Then it was a big disappointment to see KBD nerfed when T8 came out.
It is my greatest discontent with T8 by very far and it's not even a contest... 😕 Pretty much my discontent with T8 could be condensed in the incapacity of creating whiffs by moving backwards, because if backdashes _actually worked,_ you could potentially put yourself completely out of so many situations where you would be otherwise forced to guess in _Guessen 8._ 🥴 You would be able to put yourself out of situations *before they could even happen to begin with.*
Yet another tremendous video, Nova. I hope one day you’ll be able to collab with other creators on subjects like this in T8. I think that’d be awesome! Either way, this was as informative and entertaining as always. Much love, and be well!
What do you mean by "badge", my man? In any case, thank you for the kindness and for watching the vid. I hope you appreciated this insight on T8 Jin 2,1,4.
You still can sidewalk 214 and launch it. High crush it. It is not like that move (214) is super broken or there's no way to beat it. It's just that it is a lot easier to ask for a nerf instead of getting better.
120% agree with this take on 2, 1, 4 and the KBD nerfs. Fingers crossed those 6 changes you mentioned in the previous video are addressed in Season 2. I don’t want them to kill the character, but he needs a few nerfs. Regardless, I’ll always main him. Thnx for the content
Thank YOU for the kindness and for sticking around, bro. You will always be welcome here. 🤜🤛 Let's pray for the best and that they consider defensive options into what they are cooking for Season 2. 🙏
@@Topgamer357 I am not home. I'm just providing accumulated content that I already recorded and was stashed on my laptop. When I get home, I'll probably start with... defensive drills..? To be honest, I have no clue.
No offense, but why are the trends of characters being nerfed like Jin or Yoshi. But Characters like Victor or Renia or Lidia or Heihachi don't get nerfs??? Because this new toxic community feeds upon broken characters but grt upset when they lose to other characters. Toxic players eat up easy ways to win
What would you nerf on Lydia she is a bit weak in the nutral Jin and yoshi Lili drac are all very good Heiachi is very strong but he has a lot of unsafe moves maybe a decrease to his combo power
6:47 Have you tried simply KBD? Some of the time it would probably optionally select, worse case scenario you fuzzy guard and miss. You’re back dashing anyways so might as well.
@@imeaniguess.6963 It would not option select long range mids with longer startup. Most KBDs would coincide with stuff like most Demon Paws, Bryan 3+4, etc.
@kalkithekilla2290 T4 Jin is the most æsthetic Jin. Jin became a Kyokushin Karateka. Just Frame Laser Scraper. Blue training hoodie covering his head. Nuff said. While T5 Jin is basically a handicap mechanic for you to play with (Parry game solely determines the worthiness of your Jin in that game, his low game being extremely risky and near nonexistent) and that you can still have lots of fun with this handicap mechanic that is T5 Jin, T5DR Jin on the other hand is one of the (if not THE) most INTERESTING Jin versions of all. This guy is DIFFERENT. It all goes to the introduction of Jodan Mawashi Geri 4. Which wasn't the fast CH fishing tool we know today as a m4. It was an i18 tracker that leads into a knockdown on NORMAL hit, guaranteeing ff4 into d4 or bf2,1 refloat on stand up/back roll. T6 Jin is probably the Jin I have the most satisfaction out of playing. There is so much to talk about this guy. He retains mid-mid df1,4, he has some unique optimization possibilites that only exist in this game, his optimized combo structure is extremely intolerant to mistakes, only accepts perfection in execution to connect due to the shittiest Bounds in the game (hitbox was even shorter and shittier than TTT2) and the fact that THERE IS NO ZEN makes him _offensively castrated _*_in retrospective,_* so it's a whole different playstyle. Even CH f4 can only lead into a mini combo with tight execution demands. But what gives T6 Jin this insane appeal is *the introduction of b2,1 Shun Masatsu.* This move was the *first Jin Revolution.* There are no words to describe what this move is to Jin gameplay. It is a divine blessing. Jin b2 gives everything else meaning. It's hard to think of Jin gameplay without b2. And also, this move was SO AHEAD of its time. T6 Jin also made db4 +3 hit, -13 block and a CH LAUNCHER, making it top 3 best -13 lows in Tekken history. I believe only Zafina d3 and CH launching Bryan Hatchet in Vanilla T7 could compare. - TTT2 Jin is the most ideal Jin and almost FULLY REALIZED Jin. It is a direct upgrade from T6 Jin in all aspects with the exception of df1,4 now being a mid-high natural. Mid-mid df1,4 is overall better but the mid-high df1,4 is _circumstantially better_ when there are walls involved. Not to mention df1,4~4 was a LAUNCHER, -11 on block and near unpunishable due to the significant pushback. The second Jin Revolution came in TTT2, when ZEN was introduced. Jin's offensive game overall and combo structure received a new breath of life. ZEN Cancel came along with it, so the mixup potential was amped up as well. Jin f4 was never stronger than this game. It had the traditional hitbox that hits grounded in very specific angles the Jin player must be knowledgeable about in order to capitalize the sick oki potential, and at the same time, you could combo either transitioning to ZEN or NOT transitioning. The only downside to TTT2 Jin, in retrospective, is *his EWHF is not a NH launcher.* His whiff punishment game is extremely tight, demanding and even more prone to failing: ECD1 is i19. Whiff punishing people with it is extremely tight. d3+4 is only a block punisher, extremely unreliable for whiff punishment because it can let you down in range and then you're dead for trying to do the right thing. If his EWHF launched, this would be the ideal, quintessential, fully-realized Jin. - T7 Jin cemented Jin identity as the most elitist and inacessible character of all time. In this game EWHF is a launcher, CH f4 demands elite, world-class execution to be consistently converted and had its hitbox severely nerfed from underneath. His LLRK is a full backturned combo. The problem with T7 Jin is _they gave him intentional problems to make him an objectively defective character._ They sabotaged his lateral movement to the point he moves often worse or at the same level than an ultra-heavyweight character like Marduk and made him the only character in Tekken history with a non-okizeme for an okizeme. Cannot hit grounded opponents. Side Roll Right beats all ground hitting options. He went from the deepest and most advanced/terrifying okizeme in the game in TTT2 to a non-okizeme in T7. - T8 Jin is... a different kinda animal. More accessible in low-level Tekken, *amazing* welcoming additions fixing most of his defects, alien additions that are not welcome in the character in my point of view. Many defects were corrected but he received a new defect as an exchange: non-backdash. His low game is also terrible for high level. T8 Jin most redeeming factor is his new package of *specialized punishers: b1,2 WS4,4 WS1,3,2,1,4,2 f3,1* Frame-perfect ZEN Cancel became the most executionally-complex defensive technique in Tekken history. Also, the absurd nerf on his *Parry universalizing effectiveness* was a complete disrespect to Jin's identity and core gameplay. His reactive identity was severely disrespected in Tekken 8. While I recognize there are redeeming factors in T8 Jin, I am a severe critic of this design. He is *far* from my favorite. And... there we have it. 👻 Now Imma sleep, you guys gave me too much work. 😴
It could’ve been balanced so easily, all it needed after being given a follow up guarantee was make it -10 or -12 for the 3rd hit on block and it would’ve been totally fine
Also, sadly people are just too thick brained to go for these nuanced changes. All they'll scream is to make this string minus while never attempting a single step in their ff2, electric and Hellsweep game.
Tekken is movement. Movement is Tekken. So many complaints about Tekken 8 could be immediately solved through the capacity to *move properly.* Imagine not being in situations where you are forced to guess between broken devastating 50/50 options because *you didn't allow that situation to happen to begin with.* 👻
Let's pray for the best! 🙏 I sincerely believe improved backdashes across the board would organically solve SO MANY problems within T8... Imagine getting away from situations where you're forced to guess between broken 50/50s by *not allowing these situations to happen for starters.* 👻 One can only hope... 😄
@@NovaSeiken i think the next balance patch is mainly going to be about new moves for every character, actually, they showed a sneak peek of jin's fc df4 no longer having a knockdown, but now has a zen transition. i wonder what you think about that?
@@reqman5981 First of all, I will stress I never used FC df4 in my life. It's a non-move in my opinion and any Jin that goes for it deserves the suffering that will ensue. This move is literally *part of the problem* of T8 Jin: joke, impractical, not-viable lows. The eternal reliance on begging for scraps with d4 11 damage -1 hit due to everything else you might try is EITHER ultra-reactable OR you pay much more than you should when it gets reacted. Also, the fact that it doesn't knock down anymore is a nerf, not a buff. BUT we have some things to consider: - We have to consider the possibility of this move being accelerated and its properties on block changed. I had a slight impression it was. If it was made faster and safer on block due to not having knockdown properties, this would be a MUCH BETTER move than then previous version of it, that is for sure. - Anna was barely released and these mofos are *already doing SYSTEMATIC CHANGES to accomodate her BS.* By systematic changes, I mean the capacity to _organically access Full Crouch from a Heat Engager,_ apparently. That being the case, she will have access to her FC sweep in an apocalyptical frame situation where you cannot apply the counterplay to her FC 50/50 (sidewalk left), UNLESS they were rational for once and *toned down the absurd properties from Heat in general* to compensate the introduction of FC inside Heat Engager, such as the ridiculous +17 on Heat Engagers. If they made Heat Engagers into something like +7, +8, there would definitely be more room for defensive options. But you can never expect Namco to be rational, sane and put game balancing above all else, so... all I say is... Expect the worst, but always hope for the best.
What makes this even richer is that the character is based on *f_cking Bruce Lee* of all people... LMAO Bruce Lee's whole shtick and the mysticism surrounding him is _the man being supposedly FAST AS F*CK._ For them to give shitty movement to the character is the icing on the cake. 😆😂🤣
Don't do this... Don't feed me hope. My heart can only take so much... LMAO (This shit was one of the GREATEST APPEALS from oldschool Jin... gotta love it.)
Nova yoooo. How's PS5 life? Also make Jin great again PLEASE Harada. As a Jin main since Tekken 3, I don't even wanna play him in Tekken 8 because of how they butchered him lol.
Not just that...make the 1(-7) Edit: 7:40 Totally agree and accept this, he really needed it 😅 Do you speak Portuguese? The Gordo pronunciation was immaculate 😅 Edit²: Buff Backdash...pls🙏🏾
@@JustN0tMe Making 2,1 -7 completely goes against identity and core gameplay. This move is the same for 20 years already and cements his core. It's his trademark move and one of the main reasons Jin is Jin. What needs to be removed are _the _*_extra features_*_ introduced in T8,_ not spit on tradition and attack his traditional, core gameplay. (I could even go for -4, that is within the realm of negotiable, but *never beyond that* because it will start severely affecting movement possibilities and the moment this happens you are attacking identity and core gameplay.)
What do you suggest instead? The counterplay always existed... taking it away from the defender, even though 11 damage -1 hit is not the end of the world, feels a little obnoxious IMO... Tekken will always be better when movement and defensive options thrive over mindless offense. I like to believe that.
214 sux bro. If you think this move should be nerfed than YOU have serious skill issues. I'm playing in the blue ranks against Kishin and Bushins and NO ONE of them has ever took all 3 hits because its a predictable, old and easy readable move. You make such a video just to cry? You have too much free time...
@@Mentis-de The power does not lie on 2,1,4: it lies on 2,1... -3 Block +6 Hit High-Mid jabstring You _completely missed the point..._ Try to understand what -3 Block means when you have a safe mid followup as an _insurance policy_ to discourage people from mashing into your -3. Try to understand what -3 Block means in terms of *movement* possibilities... Jin 2,1 is *by far* his strongest move and there's not even a contest. 😅💀 (The fact that you're talking about it within a blue rank perspective already speaks volumes in itself.)
@NovaSeiken Correct i'm blue rank and not a 24/7 no lifer who waste his free time with analyzing irrelevant shit that does not matter at all. I'm having fun with this game and doing welm :) while you make whole videos about "nerf this move.... character x is too strong mimimi". That's the difference between me and you. The devs also don't give a shit about people like you who are living in their own bubble and think the majority of Tekken players care about frame data 😂 Conclusion: The move is trash against good players. Get gud.
@@Mentis-de I've always hated the concept that if you are decent or skilled at something you are a "no lifer". Kept a full-time job and social life while competing and have gotten pretty good. I believe this insult stems from the fact that because someone is better than YOU it has to mean they are incapable of being an actual person. If you are really playing for "fun" you don't have to toss stones. Be better.jb
@@Mentis-de > _"You are a scrub who don't know what you're talking about. Skill Issue."_ > _"You are a no-lifer who spends 24/7 getting good at the game while people like us don't care about such details and what you have to say."_ You gotta pick one, my man... 👻 Both statements are mutually-exclusive and _cannot coexist._ 🥴
Nova, the Community really appreciates your dedication to accurate information and thoughtful approach to video-making. Many video-makers in this space don't have any concept of Game Design or Game Theory, but you consistently display excellent understanding of the nuances in the Systems, and how Players use the Tools given to them to make situations happen in the Game. I noticed this happening a lot when I picked up Jin.
Yes, 2, 1 being -3 High, Mid by itself is very strong, but when Down 4 Hits so consistently, 2, 1's power increases DRAMATICALLY. I also suspected that it was a combination of factors such as Jin's Range being superior to 7 in addition to Backdash being Nerfed across the board. But even if I suspected this, I did not have the insight of playing Jin in previous Tekkens as 8 is the only time I actually played Jin seriously.
Thank you for the videos once again. I got Tekken Emperor on Jin in a matter of days once I started Rewatching your old Jin Videos and learning the Breaking Step Transitions. Free Electrics in Heat is very powerful, and even though I've never considered playing a Mishima I did end up actually wanting to learn how to WaveDash properly simply because being allowed to use the Tools (Electric) at a Cost (Heat instead of Execution) drove me to want to improve. Jin is a pretty cool Character :]
Adding accurate historical context to a current topic? That’s how you deliver the truth. Never change, Nova.
Thank you for the kindness, man.
This level of appreciation is really something else. 😄
Bro. When you make videos getting into petty arguments with other you-tubers I always lose interest (because frankly, you're better than that...)
But when you make videos going super in depths about core aspects of the mechanics I turn into the BIGGEST fan. Such a great video. So insightful.
Keep up the good work dude.
Thank you so much for the kindness, Chad.
I always have fun watching your content and your lighthearted humor. 😄
You're one of the realest Tekken bros out there! 🤜🤛
We love you too, Chad! Hoping for more philosophical Tekken Content from you!
For anyone that calls nova a downplayer. Look at this video. What downplayer asks for nerfs ?
He was downplaying his poking game but he’s finally speaking on this stupid string right here. And I’m thinking we shouldn’t buff his lows because it seems that he’s already doing good in tournament.
@@FuriousKai _"Finally"_ ?
I've been talking about the same issues since late 2023 (T8 CNT and CBT) at the very least. 🤔
I just kept covering these issues with more, more, more and more depth as time went by, since nothing was really done about it.
He talked about this since the release@@FuriousKai
@@FuriousKaiAll tournament Jins got murdered by Atiff’s Dragunov. Not to mention they were not pro players who just picked up Jin they were all character specialists. So his tournament viability is exaggerated. He’s tormentor in ranked but not that strong as a tournament character.
He is talking about 214 that’s not a MASSIVE FEAT like the move is visibly broken plus if it was nerfed Jin would still be broken, nova is a down player he called kazuya better than Jin like twice back in t7 idk what your point is
When i started train my kbd, i thought i was doing the wrong input, because i got the same picture as you in kbd part, that explains why i could do it on other chars without problem. Thanks to you now i am not so tilted about not being able to kbd on jin.
Great video, thx very much for it.
ngl i thought i was tripping bruh, my backdash on DJ is crazy
You were not hallucinating LMAO
T8 Jin backdash is sabotaged. It is a new category of backdash that came to exist in order to help newbies who cannot KBD.
With this new backdash, you can loop bb bb bb bb bb much faster than you ever would in traditional Tekken games.
But this new special category of backdash sabotages the performance of people who DO know KBD.
You make it really hard to disagree with you. The backdash nerfs on most characters is a big reason why many moves/tactics that were stable in previous entries feel so oppressive and explosive now. The attacking character is given more opportunities strictly because they can "stick" to you more effectively.
Many people forget that spacing is as big a part of a 3d fighter as side-stepping, so they overlooked how radical changes to the backdash result in radical changes to how you can respond to a move or a character.
Another banger video, bro. Always enjoy seeing real analysis on youtube.
@@DolphinVEVO EXACTLY! Spot on, man...
It's for people like you I do this shit. 🤜🤛
Having the actual capacity to backdash would organically solve/remedy SO MANY problems within Tekken 8 without even directly addressing problematic moves and abominations individually...
Imagine not being put in obnoxious situations of completely broken 50/50 options in itself because *you didn't let the situation happen to begin with* by preemptively spacing yourself properly at all times.
I liked the idea of characters having different types of movement such as Big characters being able to leap backwards further than nomal but have worse sidestep/sidewalk, smaller characters having small hitboxes such as evading normally unsteppable moves (this should have a drawback such as shorter overall range on moves, or even better have superior sidesteps/sidewalk but slightly weaker backdash), and the balance being based on normal sized characters. I want skill expression on movement be more than just sidestepping and timing forward movement. Your videos give me hope that we get a more satisfyingly balanced Tekken that everyone can be proud of playing in the future, I Appreciate your work!
oh this is 100% on purpose this is why everyone says T8 is easier. 7:00
these dents so to say are purposely dropped on the entire roster of characters, some have a few others have a ton but overall without heavy breakdowns like this video presenting how T8 ruined defensive gameplay no one would understand the real meaning behind it.
thank you for doing such effective work on casting a light on the bad balance design T8.
could you perhaps in the future look into another running community issue with T8 frames sometimes missing a single or 2 whole frames due to animations bugging out and clipping faster than normal and sometimes slower than normal. it might say its a certain number of frames but sometimes the number doesnt match the animation at all but the game never registers a different number it just presents frames as if they arent even tied to the character and its just a functional display while hiding the real frame numbers being slightly random.
Stick around. My largest scale project will make you go *mental* in regards to how they deliberately killed defensive play from Traditional Tekken to forcibly shorten the skill gap in Modern Tekken.
I promise it will not disappoint.
It was so disappointing to see backdash nerfed in this game. When T8 was first announced, in the reveal trailer 2 years ago, we see Kazuya backdash Jin's electric,, and we all thought that movement was gonna be buffed. Then it was a big disappointment to see KBD nerfed when T8 came out.
It is my greatest discontent with T8 by very far and it's not even a contest... 😕
Pretty much my discontent with T8 could be condensed in the incapacity of creating whiffs by moving backwards, because if backdashes _actually worked,_ you could potentially put yourself completely out of so many situations where you would be otherwise forced to guess in _Guessen 8._ 🥴
You would be able to put yourself out of situations *before they could even happen to begin with.*
The thing is, jin is the one of the characters who has a bad backdash.. Someone like Drag still has a very good kbd..
I guess Bamco went for the opposite approach. They discouraged KBD & CH play and encouraged plus rewarded aggressiveness.
My Tekken Buddy
The *EDGY* Karate Guy 🥋👊
@ArasakaDavid You're a real bro. 🤜🤛
Excellent Presentation and Storytelling! Sub earned my guy 🥊
Thank you for the kindness, bro. 😄
It's for wholesome people like you I do these vids.
Stick around, I promise to deliver lotsa cool stuff. 👻
Nova is just a star, plain and simple. Grounded, no bullshit and to the point content.
Yet another tremendous video, Nova. I hope one day you’ll be able to collab with other creators on subjects like this in T8. I think that’d be awesome! Either way, this was as informative and entertaining as always. Much love, and be well!
Thank you so much for the kindness, man. 😄
PS: You can hold me on that promise for Reina stuff in the future.
It feels so good seeing nova having an actual badge😊
What do you mean by "badge", my man?
In any case, thank you for the kindness and for watching the vid.
I hope you appreciated this insight on T8 Jin 2,1,4.
Impressionante como você é o melhor main de Jin que já vi, me inspirou bastante a eu jogar com ele, apesar de não ter jogado Tekken 7 e 8
Poxa vida, man... Aí moralizou demais.
Valeu pela consideração e bondade, de verdade. 😄
You still can sidewalk 214 and launch it. High crush it. It is not like that move (214) is super broken or there's no way to beat it. It's just that it is a lot easier to ask for a nerf instead of getting better.
@@TerryGarcia You can't sidewalk an undelayed 2,1,4 man...
Backdash has historically been the 100% effective counterplay *_until Tekken 8 happened._*
120% agree with this take on 2, 1, 4 and the KBD nerfs. Fingers crossed those 6 changes you mentioned in the previous video are addressed in Season 2. I don’t want them to kill the character, but he needs a few nerfs. Regardless, I’ll always main him. Thnx for the content
Thank YOU for the kindness and for sticking around, bro.
You will always be welcome here. 🤜🤛
Let's pray for the best and that they consider defensive options into what they are cooking for Season 2. 🙏
Will you do a Tekken ranked stream or video anytime soon? It would be fun to see your first impressions of the game outside of shareplay.
@@Topgamer357 I am not home.
I'm just providing accumulated content that I already recorded and was stashed on my laptop.
When I get home, I'll probably start with... defensive drills..?
To be honest, I have no clue.
No offense, but why are the trends of characters being nerfed like Jin or Yoshi. But Characters like Victor or Renia or Lidia or Heihachi don't get nerfs??? Because this new toxic community feeds upon broken characters but grt upset when they lose to other characters. Toxic players eat up easy ways to win
What warrants nerfs for reina or hei?
@@MSilva-eh4rr also why nerf Lidia?
Reina and Victor both got nerfed, Lidia sucks and Heihachi is alright. Just say you like playing busted characters and keep it pushing
These 3 guys just prove the popularity contest among this Community
What would you nerf on Lydia she is a bit weak in the nutral Jin and yoshi Lili drac are all very good Heiachi is very strong but he has a lot of unsafe moves maybe a decrease to his combo power
6:47 Have you tried simply KBD? Some of the time it would probably optionally select, worse case scenario you fuzzy guard and miss. You’re back dashing anyways so might as well.
@@imeaniguess.6963 It would not option select long range mids with longer startup.
Most KBDs would coincide with stuff like most Demon Paws, Bryan 3+4, etc.
I hope Bandai buffs backdashing so movement can be really nice on this game.
Good video as always my friend
@@mayconsilva9951 This is my biggest desire for T8 future.
Thank you so much, Maycon. You're a real bro. 🤜🤛
@@NovaSeiken They should nerf sidestepping vs weak characters and nerf tracking on top tier characters
Nova what's ur favorite jin design?
You want the short answer or the long one? 😅
@NovaSeiken long one
@@NovaSeikenwe're waiting
@@zesork5627 🥴 Damn... you guys leave me no choice.
Alright... here we go.
@kalkithekilla2290 T4 Jin is the most æsthetic Jin. Jin became a Kyokushin Karateka. Just Frame Laser Scraper. Blue training hoodie covering his head. Nuff said.
While T5 Jin is basically a handicap mechanic for you to play with (Parry game solely determines the worthiness of your Jin in that game, his low game being extremely risky and near nonexistent) and that you can still have lots of fun with this handicap mechanic that is T5 Jin, T5DR Jin on the other hand is one of the (if not THE) most INTERESTING Jin versions of all. This guy is DIFFERENT.
It all goes to the introduction of Jodan Mawashi Geri 4. Which wasn't the fast CH fishing tool we know today as a m4. It was an i18 tracker that leads into a knockdown on NORMAL hit, guaranteeing ff4 into d4 or bf2,1 refloat on stand up/back roll.
T6 Jin is probably the Jin I have the most satisfaction out of playing. There is so much to talk about this guy. He retains mid-mid df1,4, he has some unique optimization possibilites that only exist in this game, his optimized combo structure is extremely intolerant to mistakes, only accepts perfection in execution to connect due to the shittiest Bounds in the game (hitbox was even shorter and shittier than TTT2) and the fact that THERE IS NO ZEN makes him _offensively castrated _*_in retrospective,_* so it's a whole different playstyle. Even CH f4 can only lead into a mini combo with tight execution demands.
But what gives T6 Jin this insane appeal is *the introduction of b2,1 Shun Masatsu.*
This move was the *first Jin Revolution.*
There are no words to describe what this move is to Jin gameplay. It is a divine blessing. Jin b2 gives everything else meaning.
It's hard to think of Jin gameplay without b2.
And also, this move was SO AHEAD of its time.
T6 Jin also made db4 +3 hit, -13 block and a CH LAUNCHER, making it top 3 best -13 lows in Tekken history. I believe only Zafina d3 and CH launching Bryan Hatchet in Vanilla T7 could compare.
- TTT2 Jin is the most ideal Jin and almost FULLY REALIZED Jin.
It is a direct upgrade from T6 Jin in all aspects with the exception of df1,4 now being a mid-high natural. Mid-mid df1,4 is overall better but the mid-high df1,4 is _circumstantially better_ when there are walls involved. Not to mention df1,4~4 was a LAUNCHER, -11 on block and near unpunishable due to the significant pushback.
The second Jin Revolution came in TTT2, when ZEN was introduced. Jin's offensive game overall and combo structure received a new breath of life. ZEN Cancel came along with it, so the mixup potential was amped up as well.
Jin f4 was never stronger than this game. It had the traditional hitbox that hits grounded in very specific angles the Jin player must be knowledgeable about in order to capitalize the sick oki potential, and at the same time, you could combo either transitioning to ZEN or NOT transitioning.
The only downside to TTT2 Jin, in retrospective, is *his EWHF is not a NH launcher.* His whiff punishment game is extremely tight, demanding and even more prone to failing: ECD1 is i19. Whiff punishing people with it is extremely tight. d3+4 is only a block punisher, extremely unreliable for whiff punishment because it can let you down in range and then you're dead for trying to do the right thing.
If his EWHF launched, this would be the ideal, quintessential, fully-realized Jin.
- T7 Jin cemented Jin identity as the most elitist and inacessible character of all time. In this game EWHF is a launcher, CH f4 demands elite, world-class execution to be consistently converted and had its hitbox severely nerfed from underneath. His LLRK is a full backturned combo.
The problem with T7 Jin is _they gave him intentional problems to make him an objectively defective character._
They sabotaged his lateral movement to the point he moves often worse or at the same level than an ultra-heavyweight character like Marduk and made him the only character in Tekken history with a non-okizeme for an okizeme. Cannot hit grounded opponents. Side Roll Right beats all ground hitting options. He went from the deepest and most advanced/terrifying okizeme in the game in TTT2 to a non-okizeme in T7.
- T8 Jin is... a different kinda animal. More accessible in low-level Tekken, *amazing* welcoming additions fixing most of his defects, alien additions that are not welcome in the character in my point of view.
Many defects were corrected but he received a new defect as an exchange: non-backdash.
His low game is also terrible for high level.
T8 Jin most redeeming factor is his new package of *specialized punishers: b1,2 WS4,4 WS1,3,2,1,4,2 f3,1*
Frame-perfect ZEN Cancel became the most executionally-complex defensive technique in Tekken history.
Also, the absurd nerf on his *Parry universalizing effectiveness* was a complete disrespect to Jin's identity and core gameplay. His reactive identity was severely disrespected in Tekken 8.
While I recognize there are redeeming factors in T8 Jin, I am a severe critic of this design. He is *far* from my favorite.
And... there we have it. 👻
Now Imma sleep, you guys gave me too much work. 😴
It could’ve been balanced so easily, all it needed after being given a follow up guarantee was make it -10 or -12 for the 3rd hit on block and it would’ve been totally fine
backhand compliment type beat
What do you mean? 😶
Elaborate 🧐
Also, sadly people are just too thick brained to go for these nuanced changes. All they'll scream is to make this string minus while never attempting a single step in their ff2, electric and Hellsweep game.
I’m hoping they’ll buff back dash but it seems they want back dashes to be terrible so people don’t play defense and bait whiffs
Tekken is movement.
Movement is Tekken.
So many complaints about Tekken 8 could be immediately solved through the capacity to *move properly.*
Imagine not being in situations where you are forced to guess between broken devastating 50/50 options because *you didn't allow that situation to happen to begin with.* 👻
Well I hope the next balance patch won’t be disappointing.
Let's pray for the best! 🙏
I sincerely believe improved backdashes across the board would organically solve SO MANY problems within T8...
Imagine getting away from situations where you're forced to guess between broken 50/50s by *not allowing these situations to happen for starters.* 👻
One can only hope... 😄
@@NovaSeiken i think the next balance patch is mainly going to be about new moves for every character, actually, they showed a sneak peek of jin's fc df4 no longer having a knockdown, but now has a zen transition. i wonder what you think about that?
@@reqman5981 First of all, I will stress I never used FC df4 in my life. It's a non-move in my opinion and any Jin that goes for it deserves the suffering that will ensue. This move is literally *part of the problem* of T8 Jin: joke, impractical, not-viable lows. The eternal reliance on begging for scraps with d4 11 damage -1 hit due to everything else you might try is EITHER ultra-reactable OR you pay much more than you should when it gets reacted.
Also, the fact that it doesn't knock down anymore is a nerf, not a buff.
BUT we have some things to consider:
- We have to consider the possibility of this move being accelerated and its properties on block changed. I had a slight impression it was.
If it was made faster and safer on block due to not having knockdown properties, this would be a MUCH BETTER move than then previous version of it, that is for sure.
- Anna was barely released and these mofos are *already doing SYSTEMATIC CHANGES to accomodate her BS.*
By systematic changes, I mean the capacity to _organically access Full Crouch from a Heat Engager,_ apparently.
That being the case, she will have access to her FC sweep in an apocalyptical frame situation where you cannot apply the counterplay to her FC 50/50 (sidewalk left), UNLESS they were rational for once and *toned down the absurd properties from Heat in general* to compensate the introduction of FC inside Heat Engager, such as the ridiculous +17 on Heat Engagers. If they made Heat Engagers into something like +7, +8, there would definitely be more room for defensive options.
But you can never expect Namco to be rational, sane and put game balancing above all else, so... all I say is...
Expect the worst, but always hope for the best.
Pretty much sums up the issues with 2, 1, 4 and making us go through Tekken history. Never change Nova.
Btw -Noctis- Clive is in Tekken 8 haha
@@Miaou98 Thank you so much for the kindness, Miaou.
Glad you liked the historical recap. 👻
Gotta love Legacy Tekken. 😄
I think 2,1,4 is fine tbh.
I miss t7 mishima's.
I miss t7 electrics sound and visuals.
I miss t7 chickens.
Nice you finally have a PS5!😍
I'm not home. So I won't be able to play it yet. 👻
Thanks for cover Laws excrement backdash
What makes this even richer is that the character is based on *f_cking Bruce Lee* of all people... LMAO
Bruce Lee's whole shtick and the mysticism surrounding him is _the man being supposedly FAST AS F*CK._
For them to give shitty movement to the character is the icing on the cake. 😆😂🤣
My thoughts as well
I would be surprised if this was not intended..
Make the last hit a high
TRUE. zzzzzzzz
nonsense
@@JIX9ISLER1986 ok make it step able with good timing
I don't know about the other characters in T8, but hit boxes extending beyond Jin's character model looks lame as hell!
This is reverse psychology. The devs will buff Jin after this.
@@Gil-X47Lapua L M A O 😅😂
Jina no Nina drag or space ninja but clearly top 5
Okay fine, just make df1,4 a mid mid again
Don't do this...
Don't feed me hope.
My heart can only take so much... LMAO
(This shit was one of the GREATEST APPEALS from oldschool Jin... gotta love it.)
@NovaSeiken I don't mind if his moves are actually too strong or not, I just want more OSU and less Inuyasha
They just need to nerf d2 some and take away the knockdown from 214 and i think jin will be fine. Just look at dragunov, hes still broken.
Just give us zen cancel back ffs and nerf whatever
You still believe this myth? Unbelievable.
@KristoforusBagaskara reading comprehension skill issue
@@goldenHashbrown explain where I'm wrong at.
Nova yoooo. How's PS5 life? Also make Jin great again PLEASE Harada. As a Jin main since Tekken 3, I don't even wanna play him in Tekken 8 because of how they butchered him lol.
Not just that...make the 1(-7)
Edit:
7:40
Totally agree and accept this, he really needed it 😅
Do you speak Portuguese? The Gordo pronunciation was immaculate 😅
Edit²:
Buff Backdash...pls🙏🏾
@@JustN0tMe Making 2,1 -7 completely goes against identity and core gameplay.
This move is the same for 20 years already and cements his core. It's his trademark move and one of the main reasons Jin is Jin.
What needs to be removed are _the _*_extra features_*_ introduced in T8,_ not spit on tradition and attack his traditional, core gameplay.
(I could even go for -4, that is within the realm of negotiable, but *never beyond that* because it will start severely affecting movement possibilities and the moment this happens you are attacking identity and core gameplay.)
They need to nerf Scourge it's super scrubby f that move
Train your reaction 😂
No need to nerf it
What do you suggest instead?
The counterplay always existed... taking it away from the defender, even though 11 damage -1 hit is not the end of the world, feels a little obnoxious IMO...
Tekken will always be better when movement and defensive options thrive over mindless offense.
I like to believe that.
No don't nerf it
@@juiceer3320 What do you suggest?
214 sux bro. If you think this move should be nerfed than YOU have serious skill issues. I'm playing in the blue ranks against Kishin and Bushins and NO ONE of them has ever took all 3 hits because its a predictable, old and easy readable move. You make such a video just to cry? You have too much free time...
You are bad at the game you are not supposed to go for the third hit everytime.
@@Mentis-de The power does not lie on 2,1,4: it lies on 2,1...
-3 Block +6 Hit
High-Mid jabstring
You _completely missed the point..._
Try to understand what -3 Block means when you have a safe mid followup as an _insurance policy_ to discourage people from mashing into your -3.
Try to understand what -3 Block means in terms of *movement* possibilities...
Jin 2,1 is *by far* his strongest move and there's not even a contest. 😅💀
(The fact that you're talking about it within a blue rank perspective already speaks volumes in itself.)
@NovaSeiken Correct i'm blue rank and not a 24/7 no lifer who waste his free time with analyzing irrelevant shit that does not matter at all. I'm having fun with this game and doing welm :) while you make whole videos about "nerf this move.... character x is too strong mimimi". That's the difference between me and you. The devs also don't give a shit about people like you who are living in their own bubble and think the majority of Tekken players care about frame data 😂 Conclusion: The move is trash against good players. Get gud.
@@Mentis-de I've always hated the concept that if you are decent or skilled at something you are a "no lifer". Kept a full-time job and social life while competing and have gotten pretty good.
I believe this insult stems from the fact that because someone is better than YOU it has to mean they are incapable of being an actual person.
If you are really playing for "fun" you don't have to toss stones. Be better.jb
@@Mentis-de > _"You are a scrub who don't know what you're talking about. Skill Issue."_
> _"You are a no-lifer who spends 24/7 getting good at the game while people like us don't care about such details and what you have to say."_
You gotta pick one, my man... 👻
Both statements are mutually-exclusive and _cannot coexist._ 🥴