Will EV battery packs last as long as the car itself? | Plug Life Television Episode 2
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- Опубліковано 9 лют 2025
- In today's episode of Plug Life Television, we find out if it is possible for a lithium-ion battery pack to last as long as the vehicle that it is installed in, how battery lifespan has been improved over the years, and whether it's even necessary for a battery pack to last as long as an EV.
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Fantastic again Euan, the clearest explanation on ev battery chemistry !
Only just discovered your channel Euan. Brilliantly clear descriptions of battery chemistry and love the myth busting - particularly the “don’t charge to 100%” myth.
Thanks Andy! The "don't charge to 100%" video is quite old now, and mainly applies to shorter range EVs in regular use. For example, for the same commute I did in my 24 kWh LEAF, I now charge my Tesla to 80% and only bother plugging it back in when it reaches 30%. That said, I charge it to 100% when heading off on a cross-country trek.
Also, COVID lockdowns mean that cars are getting less use. As I briefly cover in the "don't charge to 100%" video, don't leave your car at 100% for weeks on end, as this will very slowly start to degrade the battery. It should be fine if it's only at 100% for a few hours, e.g. when charged overnight before your commute in the morning.
Also, it transpires that Nissan got a bit too bold with the SOC buffer on the 30 kWh LEAF, so low-mileage examples that are always left plugged in at 100%, even if they've only been driven 5 miles to the shops and back, have shown increased degradation. However, the 30 kWh LEAF is very much the exception that proves the rule - most EVs have been surprisingly resilient to being charged to 100% regularly (provided that they're not continuously shallow cycled down to 80% and back up to 100% again) and, thanks to most EVs having active thermal management, they've been surprisingly resilient to repeated rapid charging as well.
@@PlugLifeTelevision our Zoe ZE50 is doing well (only had since just before Xmas) but yet to face the rest of regular commuting and cycling. Company e-Niro arriving very soon (very excited!) so we’ll finally be fossil fuel free. Slowly working my way through your videos - more productive than binging a Netflix Box Set for sure! Keep it up!
@@andybodycombe3296 thanks again! The new Zoe and the e-Niro are both robust machines that get rave reviews from their owners, so should should be on for cheap, fun and trouble-free motoring.
Excellent, I had few worries about battery longevity, but this has well and truly buried them! Cheers.
Very clear and informative, thanks for posting.
Great Information Euan!
Phenomenal presentation 👏🏻
excellent video.
Just found you and that was the exact introduction to ev batteries I was looking for. Thank you. I just bought a new e-ENV200 Evalia to do the North Coast 500 route. Sounds like my first stop should be Dundee!
Many thanks! Dundee is definitely a must-visit for any EV driver. It gives a glimpse into what most UK cities will look like in three years' time (by which point Dundee will be akin to Oslo in the percentage of EVs in its fleet). It's also got loads going on in general, with excellent museums, shops, restaurants and pubs in Broughty Ferry, along the waterfront and up Perth Road towards the West End.
The NC500 is a fantastic route to do, especially in an EV. The torque of the e-NV200 will make light work of gradients that "eco" petrol and diesel cars would struggle with, and there are loads of rapid chargers along the route. Many rural hotels and B&Bs are installing charge points and even those that don't are usually happy to let you plug into a 13 amp socket overnight.
Valuable advice and info for my trip! It would be useful if there was a filter on the booking sites that could sort those that had chargers. Perhaps I could add those to a map somewhere when I find them?
I'd like to capture the data for the trip which I can turn into a graphic for my vlog on the journey. What do I need to have to be able to data log from the Canbus? Would "LeafSpy" work for this purpose, on this vehicle? Or would I need a bespoke solution, perhaps in MicroPython to an SD card?
Plugshare is arguably the best open source charge point map, but I'm not aware of any hotel booking sites that can filter sites that have charge points as you suggested.
LEAF Spy should work on an e-NV200 I think, but don't quote me on that. You'll need a Bluetooth dongle that can plug into the OBD port, and it'll need to be the older Bluetooth format, V1.5, not V2.1. Some people have apparently managed to get LEAF Spy to work with WiFi OBD dongles but I've not tried that before.
Fantastic information Euan, think you’ve just boosted the 2nd hand value of EVs and de-bunked a whole heap of nay sayers.
Cheers Dave! To be fair, 2nd hand LEAFs have been doing a good job of boosting their value by themselves. As I'll discuss in my EV talk in Dundee (which will hopefully be uploaded to UA-cam), the 2nd hand 24kWh LEAF was arguably the most undervalued EV in history, and now the market is rapidly correcting itself.
Hi Euan. Great info. I am a reasonably well informed chap, however I would REALLY like ti know which manufacturers are artificially 'capping' the capacities when new then making that available as the cells degrade to give the impression of lesser degradation. I want all my capacity from day 1 & transparency-and ultimately that is better for us, the customer. Thanks. Clampy.
Thanks Euan for the very informative presentation. Can you comment on the battery pack of the Ioniq Elecric car as that is the one I have? Thanks.
Excellent video and really good information. So, with an LFP home battery connected to solar panels, what should I charge the battery too at night time. I usually charge the battery from off peak based on my predicted amount of solar generation and the predicted home consumption. This often means charging the battery up to 60 to 80% and then it running down to 20 to 30%. But it's hard to predict and charging it to 100% is usually too high as the solar miss max out the battery during the morning and it starts to export which is a little bit of a waste. Any suggestions?
I heard you can extended the battery life by designing in a bank of super capacitors to absorb and release energy during and after breaking. The idea is to prevent high draw situations from the battery reducing stress. I also think car companies have a duty to design electric cars for a longer service life say 25. I guess the chassis is the weak point, it's usually what decides whether you fix the car or scrap it.
Yes, supercapacitors could have an important role to play in EVs in future years. They're already used in the Riversimple Rasa fuel cell car because fuel cells simply can't respond to loads as fast as batteries or supercapacitors. Batteries can respond to loads quick enough for use without supercapacitors, but as you rightly point out, supercapacitors will improve the lifespan of the battery pack by doing the heavy duty power dumping/absorbing. Expect to see them in high performance EVs in the near future.
I assume the bigger the battery capacity the better it will respond to loads? Double the capacity, halve the load?
Correct to some extent. If you have more cells in parallel, they each need to provide less current to meet the load. However, if you increase the energy density of a conventional lithium-ion cell, you tend to increase its internal resistance, meaning that the same load makes the battery pack hotter.
My Mitsubisi PHEV Taxi is at 164000 miles. So far the only repairs have been 1 bottom arm, 1 rear engine mount and one wheel bearing. Capacity has dropped by nearly 16% now but has little to no increase in MPG overall.
Before lockdown it was racking up between 1,000 to 1,200 miles a week. Now around 500 to 600. Looking to take it to 320,000 miles if I can. It still drives like a new car. :)
If battery drops below 70% I will look to replacing it with a pack from an accident damaged car. Maybe in 12 to 18 months depending on how long lockdown remains in place.
That's the first time that I've heard of an Outlander PHEV being used as a taxi. How do you find the electric-only range? Do you wish that you had more? How many times do you charge it per day, and what type of charger do you use? Finally, what vehicle do you currently have in mind to eventually replace it?
I have a Sunderland built Leaf (registered May 2013). It has lost two capacity bars so far. What do you expect to happen with these packs as they age further, will they continue along the curve of losing about 2-3% a year, or do you think the rate of wear will increase or decrease for some reason?
Batteries often reach a knee point where their rate of degradation accelerates. Chances are your LEAF has already reached that so the rate of degradation should be reasonably constant from now.
Great stuff. Could you please explain battery degradation in relation to time, as opposed to charging cycles. Here in NZ we have a great citizen science project called Flip-the-Fleet, which collates LeafSpy data from LEAFS. It appears from this that battery SoH drops over time, even if they aren't used much (such as in lockdown). So, it might be better to say a car has a 20yr battery, rather than a million mile battery.
Episode 15 of Plug Life Television provides some more information on calendar aging (degradation over time rather than degradation through cycling). Calendar aging is heavily influenced by the State of Charge at which the battery is left. Therefore, whilst the advice in this video applies to an EV that is in regular use, the situation is different during lockdown, when calendar aging must be taken into consideration. The battery should ideally be left between 50 - 80% SOC when the car is being left parked for several weeks or months, because the electrolyte gradually degrades against the cathode (positive electrode) when it is at a high potential, i.e. at or close to 100% SOC. This is also the reason why EVs shouldn't be constantly plugged in and charged up to 100% SOC, even if the car has just been on a short trip to the shops - routinely operating the car between 80 - 100% SOC and not letting the battery run down a bit more before charging also adds to calendar aging due to the prolonged high cathode potential resulting in increased electrolyte degradation.
@@PlugLifeTelevision Thanks Euan. Could I also ask about charging cycles? Do I presume correctly that the cycles that manufacturers quote are equivalent to a full charge, but in real life consist of multiple small charging events? Keep up the good work, it's much appreciated.
@@sniffydog1Correct. In the lab, a cycle would typically be 0-100%, but in an EV, this never happens. The definition of a cycle in an EV is therefore subject to debate and probably varies from manufacturer to manufacturer. My definitions of a cycle in an EV are:
1) Anything starting at >80% SOC and finishing at 50% total capacity.
Another definition of a cycle for an EV could possibly be a drive cycle, i.e. a simulation of supposedly real-world driving, such as NEDC (ha! Nothing like it) or WLTP. These include regenerative braking, so have several small charging events within them. Starting from >80% SOC, run the drive cycle on loop until the car needs to be plugged in. This is purely a hypothetical suggestion though.
Opening sound is much too loud just woke the missus up :( background sound is likewise a little too loud for your spoken voice to be heard clearly.
Looks like my 2014 Leaf will be stripped of it battery when the time comes. Sell the rest of the car for parts and have some huge home storage 👍😜
Could you look at the cell chemistry used in the Mitsubishi PHEV. Some people are having real problems with cell degradation mostly in Australia when cars are baked at 40 to 50+ Degrees C. However in most cases I think the lack of a rapid charge option on the vehicles supplied and users running their batteries part down the. Recharging to 100% are the most likely reasons.
I have had "discussions" with one Austrian / Australian UA-cam'er who claims to be a lecturer on electronics.. yet understands absolutely nothing about batteries or electronics to be honest. I pity his poor students.. he might teach housing rewiring however. ;) which could explain a lot. Keep smiling keep safe. :D
I have a PHEV used as a taxi from 3 years old and 58900 miles. It is now at 163900 miles and 6 years old. When I 1st got it the battery showed a 13% degradation. After 35000 miles this had reduced to 2%!
Since then it has slowly dropped to the current 15% drop (average recharge to 100% from 25% taking 8 KWh)
:)
Can you film the Dundee talk and publish on UA-cam?
I'll see what I can do on that front. Watch this space!
Reminded me of tomorrow's world only clearer. Any chance you could send some of the Scottish common dog sense into the English councils please.
You're not the only one to want that, or to try that. Some progress is being made in areas like Oxford and Nottingham, but there are some more notoriously stubborn councils that just don't want to know. Encouraging the expansion of infrastructure in more stubborn or remote areas will be the topic of a future episode and will likely be the most difficult question that I've answered in the series.
A constructive comment: Get rid of the music. I was unable to give you narration full attention because I was being driven crazy by tis background noise.