This reminds me of what I used to hear about Solar Panels, “they don’t pay back”, “they break before you get your money back”, there are solar panels in the UK over 40 years old that are still producing 70% of rated power!
@@MichaelSKEG Tesla's battery management is comparable to other manufactures besides Nissan. Nissan is the only company that produces cars without active thermal management for the battery. His statements about the battery could be said for the other manufacturers excluding Nissan.
Just bought a 40k Leaf. I couldn't be happier. Does the millage I need, with no noise and no maintenance. That's what I love. Don't care about oil levels, filters, noises, cracking noises, nothing. Just charge at my place at night, and in the morning going out to do my life as usual. Brilliant car for that
@@mastarce You still have control arms, tie rods, and steering system. The ONLY things missing are the engine and transmission. You are almost right, in that those two major components require the bulk of the maintenance in a petrol/diesel car.
Can't agree more....we leased a Leaf back in 2014 and got the hang of EV driving, then bought our current Bolt EV in 2017.... after 7 years, and Chevy free upgrades of improved battery technology, we're EXTREMELY happy with our Bolt.
Last month I placed an order for my first EV, already I’m sick of hearing all the nonsense about charging and batteries. Or “what happens when pedestrians don’t hear you in car parks”. I currently drive a diesel golf and people don’t seem to hear that approaching either.
With pedestrians in car parks just get as close as you can then honk the horn. Great fun. I was meeting some friends in a car park before going for a walk. I was the last to arrive and two of them where bent over the payment machine working out what to pay. I rolled up behind them without trying to be sneaky but they didn't know I was there until I spoke. Both got evs now. Not because of me. They are just smart
Hybrids have been around for years now. At the begining it was quite curious to see a Prius moving without any noise, but It has never been specially dangerous or annoying.
Ignore the obvious trolls but try and present the car honestly and positivly (it is easy to do both). There are many out there with good hearts who are infuenced by the powerful anti technology anti climate lobbying and there is more in their lives than following ev developments. I have had an ev for 4 years and now have quite a large number of family and friends with evs, not down to me but I helped. My sister in law was upset when my brother in law ordered one to the point of rudeness when we tried to be supportive. Two weeks after it arrived, and she had seen for herself, she couldn't stop talking about it. Another friend has had one for two weeks and his wife is surprisingly frightened to drive it. Give as many people as you can a ride. Once they see what a nice ride it is they start thinking do I need to charge away from home? can I use this car. EVs are desirable and if you want one you start thinking about how to live with it and not I have heard that .....
I surprisingly don't get much of this. We bought a 2019 Nissan LEAF SL Plus last summer, and just brought home an old 2012 Nissan LEAF SL cheap with a charging problem to fix up for my Partner to run around locally. We even had a very engaging conversation at our local auto show with the owner of a classic car. We didn't do any of that global warming save the planet stuff that drives people (including me) nuts. We just focused on cost to operate and the convenience of being able to simply plug in at home and not mess with gas stations. He went from "I'd never" to being genuinely curious about the idea of owning one.
wolfman9999999 my mate is into classics and he’s just waiting until he can get his hands on a cheap second hand EV drive train to do a conversion. There are some in the classic community that would rather see a classic be destined for the scrap heap before modifying them in any way.
Im really pleased I’ve found your channel and can get a no nonsense approach to all of this change in technology. Initially it was to look at EV replacement of my petrol car (Kia Ceed) and trying to compare the costs of a new petrol car plus monthly fuel with the cost of new EV pcp payments (yes I’ve watched your excellent video on that too). So i pay £400 a month on petrol (May 2022) and add to that the pcp of a similar petrol car, its not far away from buying a new EV on pcp with the range i need. Add a Give Energy system and it all sounds pretty good at current rates.
I was aware of all the data you mentioned but I could never have illustrated the ridiculousness of some of the arguments on battery degradation as well as you have. Well done.
I wouldn’t recommend the LMO Lithium Magnesium Oxide batteries that are still used by Mitsubishi. They have a low number of recharge cycles before losing 20% storage capacity. As mentioned by Eric Nissan batteries lack active cooling during charging limiting their DC fast charging capability. I’d go for a Hyundai/Kia with SKI or LG Chem batteries or a Tesla for greatest current EV battery confidence.
Battery degradation without thermal management (ie. Leaf) depends very much on the climate. I have a colleague with a 6 year old leaf who lives in a tropical environment and the car is often > 35-40 degrees C for many months of the year. It has only 30% of its ‘as new’ capacity after 6 years. Really, really bad. In summary - do not buy a car without thermal battery management if your climate is either very hot or very cold. I’d REALLY like manufacturers to offer battery upgrades/replacement/recycling to help future proof EVs - it would also be a good source of revenue for dealerships.
😊 Excellent work! But as a professional in the automation, one thing I need to point out; when the battery pack degrades far enough, it's actually all the cells that lose operational range. So in terms of refurbishment just because of degradation over age, the battery is better off used as a stationary power station. Replacing individual cells will not increase the usable SOC that much. But if the battery cells fail, there are multiple companies that refurbish those batteries by replacing individual cells. How ever, there are differences again (like you already said) between manufacturers. A Leaf uses series battery system with ~200 cells. If one fails, the battery is dead. In a Tesla, you have about 2000-2500 cells. They are arranged in both series (more voltage) and in parallel (more range, SOC). Now in a Tesla, you can actually "revive" some degraded batteries. This only applies to a small amount of cases, though. If the battery is properly maintained, the degradation is very uniform and Tesla also has such a good quality cell, that chances are the entire battery (all cells) go bad at the same time. But, just as you explained, Tesla has a very good system and they have also the very best warranty (at least on model S / first owner). Me, I was very happy to order my first ever EV in January and it's one of the cheapest new EV's out now (Skoda Citigo iv). And yes, as a professional automation technician (more than 25 yrs of experience), I feel comfortable with my choice 😊👍
@@alisolkanu4763 BYD is actually very good. You may not like the way that China behaves but that is politics. Nothing to do with the Chinese EV brand BYD which is high quality and has an extensive range of vehicles. Tesla is good but has quality issues. Horrible panel gaps and door handles that fall off plus poor customer relations.
A car dealer here has a 2011 Chevy Volt that interersts me. I will see the car 2 days from now and of course I have some concerns about the state of the battery. Thanks for the informative video I will keep all of you aprised of my adventure with it.
Great, real live figures. Is there much of an efficiency drop between new and old battery when charging (say 10kw on the meter) and arriving in the car (say 9.5kw). Does this figure change?
@@bryanchannell7715 I assume you mean it's dropped three bars and not three bars left? it shows that age is more of a factor than actual mileage travelled. Also 2012 was pretty much at the beginning of the revolution and battery tech has taken quantum leaps since then.
@@tarant315 I think pretty much no is the answer to that question. As EVM says, it's not one Battery but Hundreds of Batteries. Degradation over time means just means you cannot charge as much in the first place. As an analogy it's like the petrol tank on your ICE shrinking by 1ltr per year. it would cost you less to fill it but it won't go as far.
If I ever had to move to US and I had a choice, Colorado would be my state of choice :) Fascinating views you got there. Obviously I would try to live further away from the city
@@jur4x Good luck with that. The "desirability" of the area has driven housing prices to the point where unless you are deep into six figure territory on income, you aren't even going to buy a cardboard box under an overpass there. I used to live there, and still have family there. It's a beautiful state to visit on vacation, but not live in.
I replaced my engine with a brand new one, because I drive from Land's End to John O'Groats multiple times a week non-stop, with 7 passengers and with massive trailer on tow. I also live in terraced house and there are no chargers at work. EV's can't do this therefore they are rubbish. Did I forget anything else?
Time to stop driving from Lands End to John O’Groats, or at least not so often. We need to change the way we live otherwise our grandchildren will have some massive environmental problems in the future. The extent of the problems is open to debate but I think most people can sense the reality of the problem. We all need to change the way we live, if we start now it may not be too painful, if we wait until it is forced upon us it is likely to be really painful. We need government stimulus to support investment in a decent charging infrastructure to enable the switch to EV’s, not sure if even this will solve all of the charging problems but at least it moves things on in the right direction.
I love your accent! my father-in-law was from Lancashire and his cousins all have a similar accent. Oh, and thank you for helping dispel battery FUD. I recently purchased a Ford Mach-e partially based on your videos.
@@scottelkington7661 in winter, in the storms the UK is currently having, 50 miles. Might be able push it to 60 if you can keep it to 40mph and less roads. In summer, good weather 60-65
Thank you for this very reassuring video. I've just bought a 2017 16000 miles, 30 kWh Nissan Leaf and been worried about the traction battery although it presently shows 12 bars of health. I shall stop worrying now and get on with driving a car that feels like a Rolls Royce (not that I've ever driven one), and looks like it came out of a show room. Great common sense channel.
@@Tas1962b What you perceive to be the sun is just on a dimmer switch.... controlled by a lizard person. It's all explained in my book of truth, available today on amazon.
Your argument is correct for the developed world. In many African countries the majority(99%) cannot afford to buy a new car. So its easy to come across a car that is considered "new" yet it could be more than a third hand. Most of the cars on our roads are close to or more than 18yrs yet considered "new". I dont think an electric cars would survive here that long. But yeah they truely admire the electric cars.
I'm from the US. Bought a 2023 Chevy Bolt EV 5 months ago (replacing a 2008 Mazda 3). Loving it. Excellent driving experience. No more trips to gas stations. Mainly used locally. My wife has an ICE car for long trips.
As a fellow Yorkshire person myself, I guess it wasn’t long until I started looking at how to get “free” transport. I’m a huge petrol head and modified car enthusiast, but, I’m also a realist and can appreciate that electric powered cars are becoming more and more of a sensible idea. I’m absolutely loving the videos on this channel and I’m mainly interested in renewable energy but it only makes sense that if you’re able to generate your own energy, you might as well put that into as many things in life as possible 😁
A 40% degradation of a battery pack doesn't necessarily equate to only 40% of the cells affected - it could be that all the cells are unable to reach 'as new' capacity.
Semantics are important. Most electric cars possess two batteries, not many. A battery is a group of cells hooked together to provide power. The two batteries in an electric car are the drive battery, which is many volts and lots of amps, and the instrumentation battery, which is simply a conventional 12 volt car battery with six cells. No matter the size, there is only one drive battery which is comprised of however many cells it takes to provide the required amount of power.
Thank you for this thoughtful information. Between you and Bjorn Nyland, I'm convinced that a Tesla is certainly the way to go, even though it costs more up front. People talk about Teslas having POOR quality in relation to other vehicles. Well what is quality???? 1) Having a panel gap of less than 2 millimeters OR getting your butt from Point A to Point B reliably and comfortably for many years? 2) Having anxiety over range a couple times a year when you might want to take a road trip OR having anxiety about HOW MUCH the "Stealership" is going to rip you off with unplanned "up-sells" on your next "routine visit"? Oh there's a routine alright; charge as much as the customer will bear! 3) Having a vehicle that gets better with age due to "Over The Air Updates" OR having a car whose technology keeps being surpassed within a couple years making your used vehicle less desirable? You know, when I look up the word QUALITY in the dictionary, there is no mention of the word "Leather" or "German" or "Japanese". Quality is simply a perception within an individual's head.
Clayton Root I agree. Also, as far as I can tell the issues with panel gaps have for the most part been sorted. Inconsistency did plague early cars but quality with Tesla has improved.
I had a BMW 5 series and now have Model 3 . Very minor difference in interior quality but ride and one pedal driving so much better than even the auto in my old beemer so would never go back to an ICE car
Time will tell but I strongly suspect that the residual value of a Tesla will hold up. I anticipate driving 30,000kms per year in my Model 3. If I manage the battery well and drive sensibly (which I will) then in 10 years I expect the range to fall from around 375kms now to around 330kms by 2030. Of course if new EVs in 2030 are both dirt cheap and have 1000kms in range then perhaps not but I suspect it will be way better than a 10 year old ICE car of equivalent price today. Time will tell.
One of the BEST videos out there to clear up so many myths on electric car batteries. Everything about this video is clear, simple and makes a lot of sense Thank you
Daily Fail, so bad even Wikipedia banned it as an acceptable source of information. :-) Good video. Keep up great work. (3 year EV owner here and used to all the comments you get)
@pete smyth Everything you've listed can't be any more wrong. Yes, batteries have toxic chemicals in them. IN THEM. They can be recycled. Meanwhile, combustion engines spit out toxic chemicals into the air, causing many more problems than responsibly recycling / reusing a big battery. Reliability is against ICE and a + for EVs, ICEs are notoriously unreliable without preventive maintenance (which costs a lot) and problems are far more common there. They are not cheap nor easy to maintain. An EV is.
I have a little car that does not go out when the weather is bad. This winter the weather has been bad for longer than usual and it has spent maybe 3 months in the garage on a trickle charger that is supposed to "condition" the battery as well as keep it charged. So when I got round to taking it out the battery was not strong enough to start the engine. Made me wonder, what happens if you do not use an EV for a couple of months in the winter say?
I'm not bothered to be honest. I have only owned my current petrol car for 5 years and I won't be replacing it for another 6 years unless it fails me. At that point the likelyhood of me getting an electric vehicle will be higher especially when there is more data to support the longevity of batteries/motors, avg service cost, charging cost etc. I think a bigger problem is that some people are not bothered about how long they last because they have no intention to find out; I wonder how long the avg lease time is before people switch to a newer car or how long people keep the EV that they bought. I think it's very wasteful to not keep a car for at least ten years, electric or non-electric, barring major failures.
Excellent video. I agree with everything you're saying. It almost feels like people want to find reasons to not embrace a new technology. EV's are here to stay for a lot of reasons. Thanks again for such excellent - and easy to understand - content.
Fantastic video thanks very much I sure lucked out finding this. Last week I bought a 2022 Hyundai Kona EV and am learning a lot from videos like this. Thanks!
Another Great video EVM - what about Clutch - Exhaust (Catalytic Convertor) - Gearbox - same or similar could be said - people are getting fixated with the Battery and forgetting about all the other components that can and do fail on an ICE and cost an arm and a leg - yet do not exist in EV's
🤔 On modern cars, it seems to be related more and more to emissions purification. Particle traps, EGR (failed on my last two ICE cars), or cooling (the EGR for instance has a very complex cooling system on new cars). These are the main reasons, why I decided to get my first EV. But yep, ICE is more expensive to keep on the road for more than a decade.
I had 2 diesels 150k & 125k miles, killed by clutch & dual mass failure just not worth fixing as that would almost certainly just be the start of things & the cars were pretty worthless.
Can I just ask, as a battery degrades does it use the same amount of power to charge it. For example, making these figures up but it’s the principle I wanted to check. 24kwh leaf. Car batteries at 100% health, 0-100% = 24kwh of power to charge up. Leaf battery degrades to 85% state of health. Does it still take 24Kwh to charge it to full which is only 85% of the original capacity or the is the amount of electric it will take from the mains also reduced? So, if it cost £3 to charge up when new when the batteries at 85% does it still cost £3 or does that drop as well comparatively so say £2.75 or something. Thank you.
Repurposed as home battery storage is still better (second use ).than recycling/ dismantling. Car LIOn chemistry is not best for solar but way better than AGM etc...
As a long time E bike rider 16 years I have some experience in battery life. Lithium batteries do get weaker as time goes by. Three years for my latest EB and I had to get another one so now I have a reserve battery to go longer distance but you cannot do that with cars although the wise adaptation would be to have a battery pack that can be fixed to vehicle and towed. If longer travel is required. This if charged by solar at home can also help run the home.
Thank you for this video! Very interesting and I think the information is well grounded - no pun intended! Thank you for the time and effort you put forward to create this video!
Thank you excellent collection of common sense arguments. You are not a battery specialist but you understand the commercial argument of car manufacturers. So even if the data are lacking (at least from the public eye as I guess the manufacturers have a more accurate picture of the situation) your assumptions seem logical. I am the taxi driver from Crete I wrote to you on a previous video about the difficulties I have to convince my colleagues to take the step to electrify. Now I have some more arguments thanks to your references. Thank you again for the good work Can I order a coffee cup signed by you? would you send it in EU? All the best EVM! Emmanuel
The thing that struck me about the durability difference between Tesla and others - how much of that difference is because of the size of the batteries. Ie if you have a battery that’s twice as big it’s probably only being used half as much. So for 100k miles a Tesla might have only had half or less the charge cycles of a car with a smaller battery?
Funny you should say that , I still have the sharp EL-230 calculator approx 40 years old on same battery still in it and hasn't even leaked and still using it. And I got it free when collecting (ring pulls) of beer cans.
One aspect worth considering is that old car batteries will still be very usable for home energy storage even when they do not hold enough energy for driving. Consider your Nissan Leaf 30kw/h battery even at 50% will sore more energy than a brand new Tesla Powerwall 2. So old car batteries should always have a value.
Robsenga Hay - I bought a 2015 Nissan Leaf 3 years ago without realizing that when ' ON ' it will output from the traction battery up to 1000 watts to the 12 volt system battery to keep it at 12+ volts . So , it is my back-up power source for my home if necessary . ( All you need is the inverter to connect to it's system battery and an extension cord ) So it is more than just a 'car' if the grid goes down . Have used that option to cut fire wood away from any other power source with no issues . That makes it a handy 'work truck' for folks in construction / etc.
One of my concerns, as someone who cannot and will not get access to home charging, is how likely is it that a battery will drain while idling over time? Will I leave 80% in it overnight and come back to 79%, or 50%, or 30%?
Thanks for a lot of really useful information. I am considering getting a low mileage Leaf and will probably not drive more than three to four thousand miles a year. In your opinion , would the battery last longer than one in a car that does ten thousand miles a year ?
jake mi well, if evm wanted the channel to go Supernova it would be an imported model Y, but even though that’s due real soon I don’t believe it. A Mache would almost as good, but I’ve yet to be convinced that ford will carry it through. Then it would be a big disappointment if it were a Taycan or EQC or ETRON, and we can rule out an ID3 or a Honda e. or a Byron m-byte or a Roadster on availability. So my thought- perhaps you’ve gone too soon mate?
malcolmc well the shortlist is: 1- Zoe 40 (his brother was selling) 2- the new Zoe (as he seems to like them and they are good value) 3-MG ZS EV, as it’s very good value and bigger family car. If he doesn’t like it he can live with it short term and wait for better EVs to flood the market. 4-pug 208 (I’m sure he test drove one and really enjoyed it) slightly smaller than a LEAF but fun car 5- the wildcard and I kind of hoping that it’s this option..... he has found a Tesla M3SR+ 🤞🤞🤞🤞 If it is anything other than the above I shall be extremely shocked (possibly excited) but mostly shocked 😂🤣
To be fair i would throw this in the mixer too 6- Tesla Used Model S85 2016.... this I would in awww with. Finally a channel worth watching in the UK where the owner has a Tesla. Not slating UK Tesla owners but they seem too happy with there cars and don’t provide decent UA-cam footage to watch
Really great video ! I fully support your statement regarding the People consistently repeating strongly twisted information. This is quite annoying! Thanks again
could you do a video about the types of charging adaptors used by manufacturers and how you find a particular charging station for your type ?, or have you already done so and if that is the case apologies, but I am almost certain to be getting an electric car this time next year and am doing a bit of research in advance
If battery lithium ion battery technology improves ove e the years, do you believe you will be able to upgrade the battery cells in your car? Will ca manufacturers adapt new battery tech to older ev models?
Thanks for the excellent video, EVM. It's clear, and can go a long way towards dispelling many myths. One important point needs making: The EV contains two main batteries. There is one traction battery. That battery is made from many cells. Each cell needs protecting by the BMS. If the cells (plural) are protected, then so is the battery (singular). The other main battery in the car is the 12 Volt Lead/acid one, which is made from 6 cells. That said, if a single cell runs a system, maybe as in a phone, computer memory backup, or a key fob. it can be called a battery, and people will understand what is meant in those special instances. Think of an artillery battery, if you want a clearer idea of the distinction; it is usually a collection of guns or rocket launchers, working together, and usually positioned at a fortified strategic point. Each gun is not a battery. It is a gun, and a part of the battery. I hope that this helps?
Been watching your channel for a good long time now and greatly enjoy it. I've built an electric motorcycle and own a Ford focus electric and a Model 3. I'll never go back to ICE. At this time it is a some what difficult task to repair a battery pack by just putting in new modules. Can't put in new cells. All cells and modules Need to be matched. Otherwise there will be problems with pack longevity.
@@scottelkington7661 right now it's quite cold so she only goes 36-40 miles at full charge. Temps over 50 degrees I get about 80 REAL world driving. 90 plus if I nurse it (45 miles per hour or less). But I never feel guilty about joyriding.
EVM - great informative video. You raise a question I hadn't considered due to concerns over battery degradation taking precedence. How long do the motors last, what are the costs to replace. Once we have that answered, I'm expecting the costs to be a lot less than an engine, then happy days. My biggest fear cost in buying a new EV is depreciation which is the biggest killer on any car. Technology in this field is gathering huge pace as you have hinted at which in the near future would mean horrendous depreciation for 'older' Ev's. Quentin Willson has just put up a very good video on his Leaf and how little it has cost him in depreciation over the last few years ...
Looking at the prices of second hand EVs, depreciation seems not to be such an issue at the moment as the pool of new and second hand EVs is still relatively small compared to ICE vehicles.
When people talk about battery degradation in EVs they often overlook that ICE engines also loose efficiency and HP over time. A car with 300 hp and 30mpg won't offer this performance in 8 years time.
Great video. We get asked this all the time when selling used EVs. I have and will continue to point people in your direction for reviews and information. Great work, keep it up. Thanks, Jake @ EV Wales
Thank you for your easily understood explanation. You have an excellent way of putting things across to old fossils like me. Keep up the good work. I’m definitely a convert just want a bit of a price drop before I make the leap
Thinking about Honda e or Zoe.....Its heart and head. Thanks for your efforts, very helpful. I'm having trouble getting a wall charger, covid seems to be stopping installations!
Go with your heart. Cars are about enjoying them too. What's the difference on range and how often would it actually effect you to charge a little more often vs day to day preference and enjoyment with the other.
Diseasel - Buying an old EV is a safer option than an old combustion engine vehicle. EVs need next to no maintenance, so you don't need to worry if previous owners have looked after the car - is the clutch warn, has the cam-belt been changed, was the right engine oil used and changed at the right time. The only maintenance check on an old EV is to read the battery pack state of health, the rest will be rust and cosmetic defects. An EV drive train is good for about 500,000 miles.
My mate buys his cars for around 1k, usually last him 18 months and cost him several hundred pound to keep them running that long before scraping them and buying another one. Ends up costing more than actually buying a new run around on the drip. I imagine this will be the same with EV. By the time a car costs 1k its towards the end of it life so don't expect much use from it.
@Wolfgang Preier no ur dumb dude ur assuming we have same parts and dont realize we barely ever use brakes. So like mines have been good for 5 years and the rotors , drive shaft on what fucking ev (none) has a driveshaft We have no transmission 1600 less moving parts and anything else u like to lie just hmu lol
Dont worry second hand evs are dirt cheap. Technology is advancing so fast the value if old evs depreciate massively. Once the subsidies are removed from new evs the market will crash. You need to think about who you can get to service these vehicles. Manufacturers will make sure they get more profit from servicing and planned obselesence will be built in. 7-8 years the same as for other electric appliances
@Wolfgang Preier I think with new materials even those might have a longer life but then the economics for the car industry itself would have to change. Just the way the car industry is, I think culturally as well as business-wise they would be more resistant to change.
@Wolfgang Preier I am not sure. I dunno if you have seen the documentary, the rise and fall of nokia. In that documentary, it clearly comes out that samsung deliberately made the components so they don't last long. My Nokia phone still works after 10-15 odd years unlike my Samsung and other phones.
@Wolfgang Preier The current model is unsustainable and manufacturers will not survive if they stick to it. We are likely to see a change in industry focus to a subscription model where used cars are leased to second users replacing the used car market (which is in freefall).
@Wolfgang Preier Here in the UK, PCP is very popular and Personal Leasing is also increasing as people are beginning to look at the monthly cost when compared to standard credit purchase. It's only a small step to the subscription model especially for the younger generation (like my children) who are less interested in ownership and used to mobile phone subscription etc. - Time will tell.
Instead of years, EV batteris should be talked about in mileage. My used leaf has over 338 000km (210k+ miles) on it with original battery. It has degraded to 70% and with being 24kwh originally, makes it now a lot harder to be useful. (30 miles winter, 50 summer) In same situation, 40kwh or 50kwh at 70% would still serve a lot bigger audience. It is 2013 car so in years, it got there in 7-8 years (vid on channel if you dont believe). But that much mileage happened because previously it was a shared taxy car. So 200k miles for 24kwh battery is a valid expectation for leaf, IN A COLDER CLIMATE!! (like uk). If you live somewhere where you can hang around in shorts most of the year, you might have to halve that - due to no battery cooling. Also I would correct EVM by stating, that changing individual cells in leaf might often cost similar to finding a less used whole battery. Changing the WHOLE battery is something any mechanic can do in a hour pretty much, but changing a single cell needs specialist with electrical skill and tools and taking a part the whole battery and it's wiring and modules and reassembling and ten more things, costing in labor a lot more. I'm looking for a newer 30-40kwh battery this year because the car is still in a very fine condition. The price hovers around 5-10k, and should not put anyone off after 200k miles with 24kwh. I expect 30-40kwh batteries to go even further.
Fantastic, am a little jealous, I have my name on the waiting list for a couple of months now, the dealer has said l could have a ten month wait! How long have you been waiting?
@@paulcox4369 Ordered 16th Feb 2019. It arrived at the dealers in January, but I insisted on a 20 plate. I hear waitng time is around 6 to 7 months at the moment. So you could get lucky.
I'm a complete petrol head, own classic cars, and have made my living fixing petrol and diesel engines for nearly 40 years. For me longevity of any power plant, including batteries is not going to be the issue. The problem is the infrastructure for charging, be it mobile or at home, thinking terraced houses and flats here too. And whilst some commentators here are still happy they get to charge their cars at supermarkets for free(which of course isn't free, we are all paying for it) this is not a situation that will continue for much longer. Also economy 7, cheap overnight electricity will also become a thing of the past as more people demand power for their electric cars overnight. Electric cars are undoubtedly the future but there are some big hurdles to overcome and their longevity in term of power plant isn't really one of them.
I had a 2012 nissan leaf ,first registration 2013 acenta made in Japan with just 24000 km on the clock with 81.07 SOH. The car is more or less 10yrs old. 110km in winter months without sweat. Looking to summer range. This cars don't just die out as people claim.
@@richardcorns8553 Wow you have no clue at all! No wonder Toyota Prius are most used as Taxis as they go far further than the very short 200,000 miles you lot keep BS about. Sure your unreliable American ICE shit boxes may fail at low milage but modern Japanese last so much longer!
@@richardcorns8553 Here is the proof to your BS! www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-question-how-does-the-toyota-prius-hold-up/index.htm
@@richardcorns8553 Oh and just for the record I own a 2014 Nissan Leaf total money spent on car $30 for gear reduction fluid a new cabin air filter $20 and many sets of tyres. Car was brought in 2016 the car is now coming up 6 years old, unlike most stupid people that buy new we brought it when it was 2 years old at over 60% less than its original price, in the time we have owned it after just 3 years it has paid off its full purchase price in fuel savings alone! No wonder the Nissan Leaf has a reliability rating of 97% compared to around 60% on Tesla, at one point Tesla was second to last just in front of Volvo! And Tesla is an EV far less to break on an EV!
Great video... I have not yet been convinced about EV`s but the way in which you discuss the for and against, and in a very unbiased way, you certainly talk a lot of sense...thank`s for making sense where others just confuse us..
All modern phones have BMSs. They just don't have active thermal management. Actually, other than active thermal management, a mobile phone's battery is exactly like a car battery other than the fact it is typically one or two cells instead of hundreds (hundreds of cells does enable some load balancing algorithms and that does mean that a single cell can last longer in an array than it would by itself). All the chemistries that are used in cars are also used in phones. You live in the UK. I know of people who live in Arizona that have leafs and have had to replace their battery in 3 years. I own a 2019 Chevy Bolt and expect the battery to last 200,000 miles with 10% degradation (but I baby my battery). Electrek is a trash rag (not much better than the Daily Mail just with the opposite political bias) certainly you should not trust anything you read on electrek (any more than you'd trust something you read in the daily mail).
If they did have to replace their battery after 3 years then they wouldn't pay anything due to it still being in the warranty window. Obviously they got dodgy batteries. Which they wouldn't have had to pay a penny for. Nissan are not going to make shit products that they have to replace out of their own pockets. It's an anomaly.
@@bubba842 entirely true that the owners received replacement batteries under warranty. I am an engineer discussing what is accurate about batteries, I am not an economist concerned with the micro economics of a particular individual buying a car. That said, nissan had to replace a lot of batteries in hot climates because the lack of active cooling, resulted in rapid degradation in a climate where the average summer temperature (daytime high) is significantly above 100° F. I am pretty sure that the leaf was a significant financial loss for nissan in the Arizona region.
Great video. The example of going to the main dealer to replace your engine is a great one. You just wouldn't do it. I am sure as you say reconditioned battery packs will start appearing from 3rd parties. Although let's hope the Tesla repair shennanigans on 3rd party repairs doesn't affect this kind of thing. I am sure something will get sorted as per non oem repair parts on any car.
Cleveleys in Gloucestershire, are an EV specialist whom have been offering battery refurbishments/repairs for several years now. There is a UA-cam video of a 10 year old Leaf, on which they carried out a battery refurb a couple of years ago. That took 4 hours and cost the owner £600.....
Considering the initial cost - especially of highend EVs - and how little wear-down they should have compared to a petrol car, I would actually hope that as batteries get higher energy density and better charging properties, one could upgrade to a better battery pack after a couple of years. That would add so much value because honestly, right now range and recharge time are the only weaknesses of some models. Personally, for 95% of the year, almost all EVs would satisfy my needs. And then it would be 100%. And for that I would not mind 5000£ if it prevents me from having to go for a new car instead.
Excellent presentation. Most mechanics have only experience with a lead acid car battery. Know its not the same. But. the way they fail is not holding charge. Does the EV battery units that are failing use power to charge them but say overnight loose the charge. So wasting electricity.. I can see a massive back street business sprouting up on second hand refurbish batteries. Think it will not be long before you leave your EV and return to find it jacked up and some thief pinched the battery.
hey mate big fan of your channel. You have fully covered battery degradation, but do you have a video on motor degradation? has anyone doe similar reviews of the electirc motor after X years? I would be interested to find out if there is any loss of torque/hp and what to do about it.
I bought my used leaf purely for getting to work , I have 50% range when i get back home, many many years left. :) People buying leafs and getting home with 20% left need to reconsider, that will only get you a few years.
Hello, my question is simple one,and addresses the longevity of battery life. Is slow charging, say a 110 outlet, stress a battery less and increase it's life span over level 2 or fast charges, which I understand stress and heat up the battery? I know household electricity is very slow, but, will slow charging extend a batteries usable life?
At least 400K miles for Tesla’s original AC induction electric motors. Though recently (2017-2019) they have introduced permanent magnet electric motors, which should last even longer
There's a company here in NZ called EVs enhanced that have announced their own new battery platform for the leaf offering larger capacities, better chemistries and active cooling. It's still not going to be cheap but I'd consider the upgrade to keep the leafs running. Hell they are stating they have a 72kWh I'm the works which would be very tempting.
As a matter of wording, electric cars often have 2 batteries. a main, and an auxiliary battery. The high voltage main battery to power the car down the road, the auxiliary is the 12 volt battery, used to power the windows, head lights, fans or anything that uses the normal 12 volts. A "Battery" is 2 or more CELLS in a series circuit, to provide a voltage higher than an individual cell. Both examples in this video are cells. It IS, however, proper to call a cell a "battery", if only one is necessary to provide the system voltage. A wall clock may use only one 1.5 volt alkaline 'AA' cell, therefore, its the clock's battery. A Cell phone usually runs on the 3.7 volt Lithium Ion cell, thus, it's the phone's battery.
Informative, but a question. Why would some cells in a car’s battery fail or degrade faster than others ? Wouldn’t they all degrade at the same rate, hence replacing the whole set would be needed ?
My wife is German and goes there every few months to see family. Before Xmas sister in law was moaning becuse brother had a Zoe on order. No range etc etc it's madness. Wife just got back Zoe delivered, sister in law in raptures about new electric car after only 3 weeks. Wife's best friend married to a retired professor of computing. It's got to be hydrogen evs are a distraction waste of time can't recycle the batteries etc etc. They will eventually learn but it surprises me just how persuasive the negative press is. These people are smart and everybody can see that evs are practical and great to drive but they just lack imagination
Half the time it doesn’t even take the negative press, just good old laziness can do - because most people abuse their mobile phone batteries (and the manufacturers don’t help by providing life extending strategies) with the result that a good proportion fail after just 2-3 years. So EVs MUST be the same. It’s a well stated fallacy. Then there’s the ‘professor class’ where he truism that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing often comes into play. I’m 130 days into my model3 ownership and the magic of that car just keeps getting better
Hi EVM. My Tesla S90D is 4 years old and has done 130k miles. It has lost 4.9% of range over that time. In addition I have rapid charged about 70% of the time. Regards DB
my 2011 24 kwh Nissan Leaf has lost two capacity bars .seemingly overnight .Now it has lost another .capacity Bar. the most noticeable difference is a reduction in regenerating capacity.. three years ago the battery was giving 82 miles range .. now it is down to 110 KM range .(68 Miles ). it has just , yesterday passed its inspection (mot). in Portugal. I have never fast charged it and most of the time domestic charge it from overnight economy electric . Parts serviced in three years . windscreen washer fluid and wipers .one puncture repair .current KM is 32,000 .
BMS controls all cells in the battery and protects it from overcharging, overdischarging, balances individual cells to keep them all at the same level, to ensure better lifespan of the battery pack, mostly it will be handling temperatures as well. as a guy working on electric cars and ''clasic'' cars i know every bit what you said is true even outside of UK =D CZ is the same. most of these screaming people do not even want to understand the topic, let alone being right =D
Thanks for the video, it is a bit more encouraging for those who run older cars to know that we probably will be able to keep an older BEV running. I do wonder however if BEV will see the end of the "classic car". Will there be people still running a 40 year old Tesla S (insert iconic BEV of your choice here) in 2050 in comparison to those currently running 40 year old ICE. Not to mention the veteran cars that are 100 years plus.
Thanks EVM. As you say EVs and ICE powered cars longevity depends largely on how they’ve been used. The e-Niro handbook recommends charging to 100% once a month, unless of course you have to do that anyway for your regular usage. With over 400 km of range on a bad day I don’t bother taking it passed 80% for our weekly use but I am trying to get into the routine of doing the 100% charge thing. The reason for doing this apparently is that it gives the BMS a chance to look at all the cells when they are at max voltage and balance them out for the pack. The e-Niro is rated at 64 kWh but in fact has a 67.5 kWh battery, so I guess this allows for the BMS to bypass cells that are degrading more than others and bring some of the spares into play..Anyone have any ideas on that?
Well explained and clear! My 3 year old Leaf has 96% Health at 17,500 miles. So 2% per year gives a life of about 15-20 years to 60%. There was a Leaf owner that recently bought a Leaf with degraded battery (2011 with 40-50 miles range) as his use case was a 5-10 miles a day commute to a Rail station. £5k car that costs FA to run.
@@GavinScrimgeourmy leaf is a 2016 it’s still charges to 100% and give the same mileage it did when new it’s done 65000 miles and we plug it in everyday . Sits outside in rainy cold U.K. . It was frozen solid yesterday morning . But still had its full charge . I don’t know about the health but it still has all the bars .
This reminds me of what I used to hear about Solar Panels, “they don’t pay back”, “they break before you get your money back”, there are solar panels in the UK over 40 years old that are still producing 70% of rated power!
Absolutely , this also confirms Tesla, for now, still have the most advanced technology by far, if I understood correctly.
@@MichaelSKEG Tesla's battery management is comparable to other manufactures besides Nissan. Nissan is the only company that produces cars without active thermal management for the battery. His statements about the battery could be said for the other manufacturers excluding Nissan.
Yeah, solar panels don’t last long……I have solar powered calculators that still work from the 80’s.
Isn’t it Obvious that the established players will spread misinformation
Just bought a 40k Leaf. I couldn't be happier. Does the millage I need, with no noise and no maintenance. That's what I love. Don't care about oil levels, filters, noises, cracking noises, nothing. Just charge at my place at night, and in the morning going out to do my life as usual. Brilliant car for that
You will start worrying when the suspension starts going out
I hope it takes long time to happen.... 😁
What suspension? Shocks? They are cheap
@@mastarce You still have control arms, tie rods, and steering system. The ONLY things missing are the engine and transmission. You are almost right, in that those two major components require the bulk of the maintenance in a petrol/diesel car.
Can't agree more....we leased a Leaf back in 2014 and got the hang of EV driving, then bought our current Bolt EV in 2017.... after 7 years, and Chevy free upgrades of improved battery technology, we're EXTREMELY happy with our Bolt.
Last month I placed an order for my first EV, already I’m sick of hearing all the nonsense about charging and batteries. Or “what happens when pedestrians don’t hear you in car parks”. I currently drive a diesel golf and people don’t seem to hear that approaching either.
With pedestrians in car parks just get as close as you can then honk the horn. Great fun.
I was meeting some friends in a car park before going for a walk. I was the last to arrive and two of them where bent over the payment machine working out what to pay. I rolled up behind them without trying to be sneaky but they didn't know I was there until I spoke.
Both got evs now. Not because of me. They are just smart
Hybrids have been around for years now. At the begining it was quite curious to see a Prius moving without any noise, but It has never been specially dangerous or annoying.
Ignore the obvious trolls but try and present the car honestly and positivly (it is easy to do both). There are many out there with good hearts who are infuenced by the powerful anti technology anti climate lobbying and there is more in their lives than following ev developments. I have had an ev for 4 years and now have quite a large number of family and friends with evs, not down to me but I helped. My sister in law was upset when my brother in law ordered one to the point of rudeness when we tried to be supportive. Two weeks after it arrived, and she had seen for herself, she couldn't stop talking about it. Another friend has had one for two weeks and his wife is surprisingly frightened to drive it.
Give as many people as you can a ride. Once they see what a nice ride it is they start thinking do I need to charge away from home? can I use this car. EVs are desirable and if you want one you start thinking about how to live with it and not I have heard that .....
I surprisingly don't get much of this. We bought a 2019 Nissan LEAF SL Plus last summer, and just brought home an old 2012 Nissan LEAF SL cheap with a charging problem to fix up for my Partner to run around locally. We even had a very engaging conversation at our local auto show with the owner of a classic car. We didn't do any of that global warming save the planet stuff that drives people (including me) nuts. We just focused on cost to operate and the convenience of being able to simply plug in at home and not mess with gas stations. He went from "I'd never" to being genuinely curious about the idea of owning one.
wolfman9999999 my mate is into classics and he’s just waiting until he can get his hands on a cheap second hand EV drive train to do a conversion. There are some in the classic community that would rather see a classic be destined for the scrap heap before modifying them in any way.
Thanks!
Wow, thanks very much!
@@ElectricVehicleMan the info in your video is worth much more 👏 good stuff!
Im really pleased I’ve found your channel and can get a no nonsense approach to all of this change in technology. Initially it was to look at EV replacement of my petrol car (Kia Ceed) and trying to compare the costs of a new petrol car plus monthly fuel with the cost of new EV pcp payments (yes I’ve watched your excellent video on that too). So i pay £400 a month on petrol (May 2022) and add to that the pcp of a similar petrol car, its not far away from buying a new EV on pcp with the range i need. Add a Give Energy system and it all sounds pretty good at current rates.
Wish had watched this video before buying an electric car, it would have put my mind at rest on the risks.
Very helpful and informative.
I was aware of all the data you mentioned but I could never have illustrated the ridiculousness of some of the arguments on battery degradation as well as you have. Well done.
I wouldn’t recommend the LMO Lithium Magnesium Oxide batteries that are still used by Mitsubishi. They have a low number of recharge cycles before losing 20% storage capacity. As mentioned by Eric Nissan batteries lack active cooling during charging limiting their DC fast charging capability.
I’d go for a Hyundai/Kia with SKI or LG Chem batteries or a Tesla for greatest current EV battery confidence.
Thank you very much you have cleared so many questions up, well done thanks!
Battery degradation without thermal management (ie. Leaf) depends very much on the climate. I have a colleague with a 6 year old leaf who lives in a tropical environment and the car is often > 35-40 degrees C for many months of the year. It has only 30% of its ‘as new’ capacity after 6 years. Really, really bad. In summary - do not buy a car without thermal battery management if your climate is either very hot or very cold. I’d REALLY like manufacturers to offer battery upgrades/replacement/recycling to help future proof EVs - it would also be a good source of revenue for dealerships.
😊 Excellent work! But as a professional in the automation, one thing I need to point out; when the battery pack degrades far enough, it's actually all the cells that lose operational range. So in terms of refurbishment just because of degradation over age, the battery is better off used as a stationary power station. Replacing individual cells will not increase the usable SOC that much. But if the battery cells fail, there are multiple companies that refurbish those batteries by replacing individual cells. How ever, there are differences again (like you already said) between manufacturers. A Leaf uses series battery system with ~200 cells. If one fails, the battery is dead. In a Tesla, you have about 2000-2500 cells. They are arranged in both series (more voltage) and in parallel (more range, SOC). Now in a Tesla, you can actually "revive" some degraded batteries. This only applies to a small amount of cases, though. If the battery is properly maintained, the degradation is very uniform and Tesla also has such a good quality cell, that chances are the entire battery (all cells) go bad at the same time. But, just as you explained, Tesla has a very good system and they have also the very best warranty (at least on model S / first owner). Me, I was very happy to order my first ever EV in January and it's one of the cheapest new EV's out now (Skoda Citigo iv). And yes, as a professional automation technician (more than 25 yrs of experience), I feel comfortable with my choice 😊👍
Hi. They say this year is e up revived and on sale so would you recommend it are thr batteries good in it?
What do you think about de byd new blade battery? Do you think it will last 3.000 cicles like they say?
@@aseretto015 buy a Tesla and you don’t have to worry about a BYD crap
@@alisolkanu4763 BYD is actually very good. You may not like the way that China behaves but that is politics. Nothing to do with the Chinese EV brand BYD which is high quality and has an extensive range of vehicles. Tesla is good but has quality issues. Horrible panel gaps and door handles that fall off plus poor customer relations.
@@alisolkanu4763Tesla uses BYD batteries for Model Ys made in Berlin
A car dealer here has a 2011 Chevy Volt that interersts me. I will see the car 2 days from now and of course I have some concerns about the state of the battery. Thanks for the informative video I will keep all of you aprised of my adventure with it.
My 2015 leaf just dropped to 10 bars at pushing 170,000 miles, that's in the mid 80%s I think, still does 80 miles in optimal conditions
Licky my 2012 leaf has like 3 bars and like only 45000 miles and puhh but i still love driving it
Great, real live figures. Is there much of an efficiency drop between new and old battery when charging (say 10kw on the meter) and arriving in the car (say 9.5kw). Does this figure change?
That's awesome. You can't complain at that. But someone in their 25 mpg ice would
@@bryanchannell7715 I assume you mean it's dropped three bars and not three bars left?
it shows that age is more of a factor than actual mileage travelled. Also 2012 was pretty much at the beginning of the revolution and battery tech has taken quantum leaps since then.
@@tarant315 I think pretty much no is the answer to that question. As EVM says, it's not one Battery but Hundreds of Batteries. Degradation over time means just means you cannot charge as much in the first place. As an analogy it's like the petrol tank on your ICE shrinking by 1ltr per year. it would cost you less to fill it but it won't go as far.
In Denver, CO you can get 2019 e-Niro (Niro EV) at the dealer lot. I got mine last Monday :-) . Fantastic car
Great to hear. Enjoy!
Fun, congrats!
If I ever had to move to US and I had a choice, Colorado would be my state of choice :) Fascinating views you got there.
Obviously I would try to live further away from the city
Honestly it's on my list. One of the best real world ranges as tested by car wow and pretty cheap for what it is.
@@jur4x Good luck with that. The "desirability" of the area has driven housing prices to the point where unless you are deep into six figure territory on income, you aren't even going to buy a cardboard box under an overpass there. I used to live there, and still have family there. It's a beautiful state to visit on vacation, but not live in.
Please don't confuse people with closed minds by giving them the facts. I found this video both interesting and informative as always.Thank you.
Great video !!! Can you please write me your opinion regarding degradation and longevity of battery (km/years) on IONIQ 38kw. Thank you.
I replaced my engine with a brand new one, because I drive from Land's End to John O'Groats multiple times a week non-stop, with 7 passengers and with massive trailer on tow. I also live in terraced house and there are no chargers at work. EV's can't do this therefore they are rubbish.
Did I forget anything else?
Yes, the cost of the engine and all the maintenance you are paying all the time.
Also the claim there are no chargers along that route is the real rubbish statement.
@@earlpottinger671 I believe he is being satirical 😛
@@Stewiedude1 you are correct :)
Time to stop driving from Lands End to John O’Groats, or at least not so often. We need to change the way we live otherwise our grandchildren will have some massive environmental problems in the future. The extent of the problems is open to debate but I think most people can sense the reality of the problem. We all need to change the way we live, if we start now it may not be too painful, if we wait until it is forced upon us it is likely to be really painful. We need government stimulus to support investment in a decent charging infrastructure to enable the switch to EV’s, not sure if even this will solve all of the charging problems but at least it moves things on in the right direction.
I love your accent! my father-in-law was from Lancashire and his cousins all have a similar accent. Oh, and thank you for helping dispel battery FUD. I recently purchased a Ford Mach-e partially based on your videos.
Sat watching this in a Sainsbury's car park where my 8 year old Japanese leaf with 10 battery health bars is charging, for free.
What range are you managing to get out of it now?
@@scottelkington7661 in winter, in the storms the UK is currently having, 50 miles. Might be able push it to 60 if you can keep it to 40mph and less roads. In summer, good weather 60-65
French?
@@otleybull nope. Manc.
What's the mileage? That range is pretty poor, I guess OK as an urban runabout though.
Thank you for this very reassuring video. I've just bought a 2017 16000 miles, 30 kWh Nissan Leaf and been worried about the traction battery although it presently shows 12 bars of health. I shall stop worrying now and get on with driving a car that feels like a Rolls Royce (not that I've ever driven one), and looks like it came out of a show room. Great common sense channel.
The worlds not flat?? 🤣🤣 Thanks for the video 👍
I would like to hear flat earthers explain where the sun goes at night.
@@Tas1962b 🤣🤣👍
@@Tas1962b It gets a mask applied to it then the original blue sky is also masked out then layered and then replayed........... :D :D :D
@@Tas1962b What you perceive to be the sun is just on a dimmer switch.... controlled by a lizard person.
It's all explained in my book of truth, available today on amazon.
Your argument is correct for the developed world. In many African countries the majority(99%) cannot afford to buy a new car. So its easy to come across a car that is considered "new" yet it could be more than a third hand. Most of the cars on our roads are close to or more than 18yrs yet considered "new". I dont think an electric cars would survive here that long. But yeah they truely admire the electric cars.
I’m glad you have addressed this subject as it’s one that I always wondered how many years will the cars last
I'm from the US. Bought a 2023 Chevy Bolt EV 5 months ago (replacing a 2008 Mazda 3). Loving it. Excellent driving experience. No more trips to gas stations. Mainly used locally. My wife has an ICE car for long trips.
That’s why i watch you to get all the information and facts really good video as usual keep up the good work 👍❤️😎
As a fellow Yorkshire person myself, I guess it wasn’t long until I started looking at how to get “free” transport. I’m a huge petrol head and modified car enthusiast, but, I’m also a realist and can appreciate that electric powered cars are becoming more and more of a sensible idea.
I’m absolutely loving the videos on this channel and I’m mainly interested in renewable energy but it only makes sense that if you’re able to generate your own energy, you might as well put that into as many things in life as possible 😁
A 40% degradation of a battery pack doesn't necessarily equate to only 40% of the cells affected - it could be that all the cells are unable to reach 'as new' capacity.
@E-Biker Bulgaria Can you elaborate? Thanks
Semantics are important. Most electric cars possess two batteries, not many. A battery is a group of cells hooked together to provide power. The two batteries in an electric car are the drive battery, which is many volts and lots of amps, and the instrumentation battery, which is simply a conventional 12 volt car battery with six cells. No matter the size, there is only one drive battery which is comprised of however many cells it takes to provide the required amount of power.
+1 you saved me typing all that out!
I could be really technically anal on the details but this is UA-cam. It has to be understandable to all.
Thank you for this thoughtful information.
Between you and Bjorn Nyland, I'm convinced that a Tesla is certainly the way to go, even though it costs more up front.
People talk about Teslas having POOR quality in relation to other vehicles.
Well what is quality????
1) Having a panel gap of less than 2 millimeters OR getting your butt from Point A to Point B reliably and comfortably for many years?
2) Having anxiety over range a couple times a year when you might want to take a road trip OR having anxiety about HOW MUCH the "Stealership" is going to rip you off with unplanned "up-sells" on your next "routine visit"? Oh there's a routine alright; charge as much as the customer will bear!
3) Having a vehicle that gets better with age due to "Over The Air Updates" OR having a car whose technology keeps being surpassed within a couple years making your used vehicle less desirable?
You know, when I look up the word QUALITY in the dictionary, there is no mention of the word "Leather" or "German" or "Japanese". Quality is simply a perception within an individual's head.
Clayton Root I agree. Also, as far as I can tell the issues with panel gaps have for the most part been sorted. Inconsistency did plague early cars but quality with Tesla has improved.
I had a BMW 5 series and now have Model 3 . Very minor difference in interior quality but ride and one pedal driving so much better than even the auto in my old beemer so would never go back to an ICE car
Time will tell but I strongly suspect that the residual value of a Tesla will hold up. I anticipate driving 30,000kms per year in my Model 3. If I manage the battery well and drive sensibly (which I will) then in 10 years I expect the range to fall from around 375kms now to around 330kms by 2030.
Of course if new EVs in 2030 are both dirt cheap and have 1000kms in range then perhaps not but I suspect it will be way better than a 10 year old ICE car of equivalent price today. Time will tell.
Your Leaf is one of the few with bi-directional charging. Have you ever considered using the Leaf battery as backup for the home. Is it even possible?
Awesome. Everyone assumed the ‘next’ video after the ‘last’ on on the Leaf would be ‘the reveal’. Well played!
One of the BEST videos out there to clear up so many myths on electric car batteries. Everything about this video is clear, simple and makes a lot of sense Thank you
This reminds me of when widescreen lcd TVs came out and people said don’t buy they only last 3yrs , guess I still have my first one from 14 yrs ago
But Plasma was a pain. Not all technologies last well.
At least the Lithium cells used in modern EVs do last.
Stephen Bird you say that but again I still own a Panasonic plasma that still good with no burn in screen and trust me I watch a lot of tv
@@josephgittos3787 OK so I over generalized. But it was a thing for many of those with "cheaper" sets.
LCD displays were predicted to last less than 1 year when first launched with the Casio watch in about 1980? Mine still works
@@josephgittos3787 in the UK a plasma costs about $100 a year in electricity. LCD about $27.
Daily Fail, so bad even Wikipedia banned it as an acceptable source of information. :-) Good video. Keep up great work. (3 year EV owner here and used to all the comments you get)
It's basic human instinct, people automatically hate things they know nothing about as some form of self preservation/protection.
@pete smyth Everything you've listed can't be any more wrong.
Yes, batteries have toxic chemicals in them. IN THEM. They can be recycled. Meanwhile, combustion engines spit out toxic chemicals into the air, causing many more problems than responsibly recycling / reusing a big battery.
Reliability is against ICE and a + for EVs, ICEs are notoriously unreliable without preventive maintenance (which costs a lot) and problems are far more common there. They are not cheap nor easy to maintain. An EV is.
@@yosyp5905 Shows what you know. Pollution these days is mostly from degrading tires and EV's pollute more there.
@@MrLaptopus lol if you think tyres are the prominent problem, you're delusional
I have a little car that does not go out when the weather is bad. This winter the weather has been bad for longer than usual and it has spent maybe 3 months in the garage on a trickle charger that is supposed to "condition" the battery as well as keep it charged. So when I got round to taking it out the battery was not strong enough to start the engine. Made me wonder, what happens if you do not use an EV for a couple of months in the winter say?
I'm not bothered to be honest. I have only owned my current petrol car for 5 years and I won't be replacing it for another 6 years unless it fails me. At that point the likelyhood of me getting an electric vehicle will be higher especially when there is more data to support the longevity of batteries/motors, avg service cost, charging cost etc.
I think a bigger problem is that some people are not bothered about how long they last because they have no intention to find out; I wonder how long the avg lease time is before people switch to a newer car or how long people keep the EV that they bought. I think it's very wasteful to not keep a car for at least ten years, electric or non-electric, barring major failures.
Simple, to the point, proper English explanations. Thank you.
Excellent video. I agree with everything you're saying. It almost feels like people want to find reasons to not embrace a new technology. EV's are here to stay for a lot of reasons. Thanks again for such excellent - and easy to understand - content.
lithium batts not good for climate etc
Fantastic video thanks very much I sure lucked out finding this. Last week I bought a 2022 Hyundai Kona EV and am learning a lot from videos like this. Thanks!
Another Great video EVM - what about Clutch - Exhaust (Catalytic Convertor) - Gearbox - same or similar could be said - people are getting fixated with the Battery and forgetting about all the other components that can and do fail on an ICE and cost an arm and a leg - yet do not exist in EV's
🤔 On modern cars, it seems to be related more and more to emissions purification. Particle traps, EGR (failed on my last two ICE cars), or cooling (the EGR for instance has a very complex cooling system on new cars). These are the main reasons, why I decided to get my first EV. But yep, ICE is more expensive to keep on the road for more than a decade.
I had 2 diesels 150k & 125k miles, killed by clutch & dual mass failure just not worth fixing as that would almost certainly just be the start of things & the cars were pretty worthless.
Can I just ask, as a battery degrades does it use the same amount of power to charge it. For example, making these figures up but it’s the principle I wanted to check. 24kwh leaf. Car batteries at 100% health, 0-100% = 24kwh of power to charge up. Leaf battery degrades to 85% state of health. Does it still take 24Kwh to charge it to full which is only 85% of the original capacity or the is the amount of electric it will take from the mains also reduced? So, if it cost £3 to charge up when new when the batteries at 85% does it still cost £3 or does that drop as well comparatively so say £2.75 or something. Thank you.
Interesting question.
Old ev batteries are great for home backup system batteries
@Wolfgang Preier what are LiFePo4, can you share some information or link about these battery technology please.
Repurposed as home battery storage is still better (second use ).than recycling/ dismantling. Car LIOn chemistry is not best for solar but way better than AGM etc...
As a long time E bike rider 16 years I have some experience in battery life. Lithium batteries do get weaker as time goes by. Three years for my latest EB and I had to get another one so now I have a reserve battery to go longer distance but you cannot do that with cars although the wise adaptation would be to have a battery pack that can be fixed to vehicle and towed. If longer travel is required. This if charged by solar at home can also help run the home.
Thank you for this video! Very interesting and I think the information is well grounded - no pun intended!
Thank you for the time and effort you put forward to create this video!
Thank you excellent collection of common sense arguments. You are not a battery specialist but you understand the commercial argument of car manufacturers.
So even if the data are lacking (at least from the public eye as I guess the manufacturers have a more accurate picture of the situation) your assumptions seem logical.
I am the taxi driver from Crete I wrote to you on a previous video about the difficulties I have to convince my colleagues to take the step to electrify. Now I have some more arguments thanks to your references. Thank you again for the good work
Can I order a coffee cup signed by you? would you send it in EU?
All the best EVM!
Emmanuel
Get sent all over the world those mugs.
The thing that struck me about the durability difference between Tesla and others - how much of that difference is because of the size of the batteries. Ie if you have a battery that’s twice as big it’s probably only being used half as much.
So for 100k miles a Tesla might have only had half or less the charge cycles of a car with a smaller battery?
I've got a 'Sharp' calculator that my daughter used at school in 1984-86. It still works on the same battery.
If i were you put that sharp calculator battery in you new ev 👍
Funny you should say that , I still have the sharp EL-230 calculator approx 40 years old on same battery still in it and hasn't even leaked and still using it.
And I got it free when collecting (ring pulls) of beer cans.
He almost went into a 'Robert from Fully Charged' rant.
"watch my lips..." :-)
He's very patronising .....
@@stevevater8598 Nah - he's from Yorkshire, that just the way they speak. It don't mean nuffin'. :)
@@stevevater8598 No. No, he's not.
One aspect worth considering is that old car batteries will still be very usable for home energy storage even when they do not hold enough energy for driving.
Consider your Nissan Leaf 30kw/h battery even at 50% will sore more energy than a brand new Tesla Powerwall 2. So old car batteries should always have a value.
Robsenga Hay - I bought a 2015 Nissan Leaf 3 years ago without realizing that when ' ON ' it will output from the traction battery up to 1000 watts to the 12 volt system battery to keep it at 12+ volts . So , it is my back-up power source for my home if necessary . ( All you need is the inverter to connect to it's system battery and an extension cord ) So it is more than just a 'car' if the grid goes down . Have used that option to cut fire wood away from any other power source with no issues . That makes it a handy 'work truck' for folks in construction / etc.
One of my concerns, as someone who cannot and will not get access to home charging, is how likely is it that a battery will drain while idling over time? Will I leave 80% in it overnight and come back to 79%, or 50%, or 30%?
Might lose 1-2% over a week.
Thanks for a lot of really useful information. I am considering getting a low mileage Leaf and will probably not drive more than three to four thousand miles a year. In your opinion , would the battery last longer than one in a car that does ten thousand miles a year ?
As long as it’s not sat doing nothing for long periods.
@@ElectricVehicleMan Okay , thanks.
Yeah but what about your car, what have you gone with? When is your delivery?
I’m changing my guess to Pug 208
jake mi well, if evm wanted the channel to go Supernova it would be an imported model Y, but even though that’s due real soon I don’t believe it. A Mache would almost as good, but I’ve yet to be convinced that ford will carry it through. Then it would be a big disappointment if it were a Taycan or EQC or ETRON, and we can rule out an ID3 or a Honda e. or a Byron m-byte or a Roadster on availability. So my thought- perhaps you’ve gone too soon mate?
malcolmc well the shortlist is:
1- Zoe 40 (his brother was selling)
2- the new Zoe (as he seems to like them and they are good value)
3-MG ZS EV, as it’s very good value and bigger family car. If he doesn’t like it he can live with it short term and wait for better EVs to flood the market.
4-pug 208 (I’m sure he test drove one and really enjoyed it) slightly smaller than a LEAF but fun car
5- the wildcard and I kind of hoping that it’s this option..... he has found a Tesla M3SR+ 🤞🤞🤞🤞
If it is anything other than the above I shall be extremely shocked (possibly excited) but mostly shocked 😂🤣
To be fair i would throw this in the mixer too
6- Tesla Used Model S85 2016.... this I would in awww with. Finally a channel worth watching in the UK where the owner has a Tesla.
Not slating UK Tesla owners but they seem too happy with there cars and don’t provide decent UA-cam footage to watch
@@GLP_Aquatics Yeah, ok, my list was more to illustrate what's on the way... I bet you're right about the MG though. shame
Really great video !
I fully support your statement regarding the People consistently repeating strongly twisted information. This is quite annoying!
Thanks again
could you do a video about the types of charging adaptors used by manufacturers and how you find a particular charging station for your type ?, or have you already done so and if that is the case apologies, but I am almost certain to be getting an electric car this time next year and am doing a bit of research in advance
There only really two tbh.
If battery lithium ion battery technology improves ove e the years, do you believe you will be able to upgrade the battery cells in your car? Will ca manufacturers adapt new battery tech to older ev models?
Thanks for the excellent video, EVM. It's clear, and can go a long way towards dispelling many myths.
One important point needs making: The EV contains two main batteries. There is one traction battery. That battery is made from many cells. Each cell needs protecting by the BMS. If the cells (plural) are protected, then so is the battery (singular). The other main battery in the car is the 12 Volt Lead/acid one, which is made from 6 cells. That said, if a single cell runs a system, maybe as in a phone, computer memory backup, or a key fob. it can be called a battery, and people will understand what is meant in those special instances.
Think of an artillery battery, if you want a clearer idea of the distinction; it is usually a collection of guns or rocket launchers, working together, and usually positioned at a fortified strategic point. Each gun is not a battery. It is a gun, and a part of the battery. I hope that this helps?
Been watching your channel for a good long time now and greatly enjoy it. I've built an electric motorcycle and own a Ford focus electric and a Model 3. I'll never go back to ICE. At this time it is a some what difficult task to repair a battery pack by just putting in new modules. Can't put in new cells. All cells and modules Need to be matched. Otherwise there will be problems with pack longevity.
If it helps any I have 45000 on my 2015 24kw leaf. Still have 11 out of 12 bars
same here 11 of 12 on a 2014 Leaf...
I have 12 out of 12 on my 2013. 98000km done.
Cool, what range are you still getting with 11 bars?
@@scottelkington7661 right now it's quite cold so she only goes 36-40 miles at full charge. Temps over 50 degrees I get about 80 REAL world driving. 90 plus if I nurse it (45 miles per hour or less). But I never feel guilty about joyriding.
@@scottelkington7661 The car is garaged at 50F, and shows me 85 or 90 during this winter. Drops 10 miles when I turn on the heater
EVM - great informative video. You raise a question I hadn't considered due to concerns over battery degradation taking precedence. How long do the motors last, what are the costs to replace. Once we have that answered, I'm expecting the costs to be a lot less than an engine, then happy days. My biggest fear cost in buying a new EV is depreciation which is the biggest killer on any car. Technology in this field is gathering huge pace as you have hinted at which in the near future would mean horrendous depreciation for 'older' Ev's. Quentin Willson has just put up a very good video on his Leaf and how little it has cost him in depreciation over the last few years ...
Looking at the prices of second hand EVs, depreciation seems not to be such an issue at the moment as the pool of new and second hand EVs is still relatively small compared to ICE vehicles.
good work m8.
thanks 4 pointing out the obvious :)
The earth isn’t flat either.
@@ElectricVehicleManso true, it's a triangular shaped square
Just sub'd today and pleased that I did. Loaded with straightforward, accurate information based in the real world. Thanks!
When people talk about battery degradation in EVs they often overlook that ICE engines also loose efficiency and HP over time. A car with 300 hp and 30mpg won't offer this performance in 8 years time.
Great video. We get asked this all the time when selling used EVs. I have and will continue to point people in your direction for reviews and information. Great work, keep it up. Thanks, Jake @ EV Wales
I get the most out of EVM by listening at 75% speed
Try 50% speed though, it is hilarious.
Thank you for your easily understood explanation. You have an excellent way of putting things across to old fossils like me. Keep up the good work. I’m definitely a convert just want a bit of a price drop before I make the leap
bottom line, here in New Zealand at any rate, electric cars are just too expensive
But in UnZud you can now buy low-cost used imports from Japan: www.smartcompany.com.au/industries/transport-logistics/benefits-electric-vehicles/
Wrong.
@ferkemall Do you have electricity at home? - just plug in & charge overnight... or anywhere there's a 240VAC outlet.
Thinking about Honda e or Zoe.....Its heart and head.
Thanks for your efforts, very helpful. I'm having trouble getting a wall charger, covid seems to be stopping installations!
Go with your heart. Cars are about enjoying them too. What's the difference on range and how often would it actually effect you to charge a little more often vs day to day preference and enjoyment with the other.
SO what you're saying is, by the time they're a price I can afford(We're talking a grand), they'll probably still have some life in them?
Diseasel - Buying an old EV is a safer option than an old combustion engine vehicle. EVs need next to no maintenance, so you don't need to worry if previous owners have looked after the car - is the clutch warn, has the cam-belt been changed, was the right engine oil used and changed at the right time. The only maintenance check on an old EV is to read the battery pack state of health, the rest will be rust and cosmetic defects. An EV drive train is good for about 500,000 miles.
My mate buys his cars for around 1k, usually last him 18 months and cost him several hundred pound to keep them running that long before scraping them and buying another one. Ends up costing more than actually buying a new run around on the drip. I imagine this will be the same with EV. By the time a car costs 1k its towards the end of it life so don't expect much use from it.
@Wolfgang Preier no ur dumb dude ur assuming we have same parts and dont realize we barely ever use brakes. So like mines have been good for 5 years and the rotors , drive shaft on what fucking ev (none) has a driveshaft
We have no transmission 1600 less moving parts and anything else u like to lie just hmu lol
Suspension components and bushes etc need replacing more often due to the heavy weight of the battery.
Dont worry second hand evs are dirt cheap. Technology is advancing so fast the value if old evs depreciate massively. Once the subsidies are removed from new evs the market will crash. You need to think about who you can get to service these vehicles. Manufacturers will make sure they get more profit from servicing and planned obselesence will be built in. 7-8 years the same as for other electric appliances
Excellent video really well explained, thanks.
i average 500 miles a month. So about 30 years for me:)
@Wolfgang Preier I think with new materials even those might have a longer life but then the economics for the car industry itself would have to change. Just the way the car industry is, I think culturally as well as business-wise they would be more resistant to change.
@Wolfgang Preier I am not sure. I dunno if you have seen the documentary, the rise and fall of nokia. In that documentary, it clearly comes out that samsung deliberately made the components so they don't last long. My Nokia phone still works after 10-15 odd years unlike my Samsung and other phones.
@Wolfgang Preier The current model is unsustainable and manufacturers will not survive if they stick to it. We are likely to see a change in industry focus to a subscription model where used cars are leased to second users replacing the used car market (which is in freefall).
@Wolfgang Preier Here in the UK, PCP is very popular and Personal Leasing is also increasing as people are beginning to look at the monthly cost when compared to standard credit purchase. It's only a small step to the subscription model especially for the younger generation (like my children) who are less interested in ownership and used to mobile phone subscription etc. - Time will tell.
Instead of years, EV batteris should be talked about in mileage. My used leaf has over 338 000km (210k+ miles) on it with original battery. It has degraded to 70% and with being 24kwh originally, makes it now a lot harder to be useful. (30 miles winter, 50 summer) In same situation, 40kwh or 50kwh at 70% would still serve a lot bigger audience. It is 2013 car so in years, it got there in 7-8 years (vid on channel if you dont believe). But that much mileage happened because previously it was a shared taxy car.
So 200k miles for 24kwh battery is a valid expectation for leaf, IN A COLDER CLIMATE!! (like uk). If you live somewhere where you can hang around in shorts most of the year, you might have to halve that - due to no battery cooling.
Also I would correct EVM by stating, that changing individual cells in leaf might often cost similar to finding a less used whole battery. Changing the WHOLE battery is something any mechanic can do in a hour pretty much, but changing a single cell needs specialist with electrical skill and tools and taking a part the whole battery and it's wiring and modules and reassembling and ten more things, costing in labor a lot more.
I'm looking for a newer 30-40kwh battery this year because the car is still in a very fine condition. The price hovers around 5-10k, and should not put anyone off after 200k miles with 24kwh. I expect 30-40kwh batteries to go even further.
Lulz.Does anyone actually pay any attention to the Daily Fail ? 10 days to go till I get my e-Niro.
About 10million a month.
Fantastic, am a little jealous, I have my name on the waiting list for a couple of months now, the dealer has said l could have a ten month wait! How long have you been waiting?
@@paulcox4369 Ordered 16th Feb 2019. It arrived at the dealers in January, but I insisted on a 20 plate. I hear waitng time is around 6 to 7 months at the moment. So you could get lucky.
@@wattouk Thanks, you certainly have had a long wait! Hope you really enjoy the car, good to see some more are now arriving in the UK.
Nice presentation! My 2013 24kW leaf has done 96000 and is at about 87% so ties up with your predictions. Just lost 1 bar.
I'm a complete petrol head, own classic cars, and have made my living fixing petrol and diesel engines for nearly 40 years. For me longevity of any power plant, including batteries is not going to be the issue. The problem is the infrastructure for charging, be it mobile or at home, thinking terraced houses and flats here too. And whilst some commentators here are still happy they get to charge their cars at supermarkets for free(which of course isn't free, we are all paying for it) this is not a situation that will continue for much longer. Also economy 7, cheap overnight electricity will also become a thing of the past as more people demand power for their electric cars overnight. Electric cars are undoubtedly the future but there are some big hurdles to overcome and their longevity in term of power plant isn't really one of them.
I had a 2012 nissan leaf ,first registration 2013 acenta made in Japan with just 24000 km on the clock with 81.07 SOH. The car is more or less 10yrs old. 110km in winter months without sweat. Looking to summer range. This cars don't just die out as people claim.
Some teslas have 90% soc AT 450000MILES
Yeah I have seen that one in particular has had 2x battery replacements to get to its 450,000 miles
@@gregandkaruna6674 You don't see many ICE cars with 225,000 miles on the clock running the same engine, gear box, clutch, exhaust etc.
@@richardcorns8553 Wow you have no clue at all! No wonder Toyota Prius are most used as Taxis as they go far further than the very short 200,000 miles you lot keep BS about. Sure your unreliable American ICE shit boxes may fail at low milage but modern Japanese last so much longer!
@@richardcorns8553 Here is the proof to your BS!
www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2011/02/the-200-000-mile-question-how-does-the-toyota-prius-hold-up/index.htm
@@richardcorns8553 Oh and just for the record I own a 2014 Nissan Leaf total money spent on car $30 for gear reduction fluid a new cabin air filter $20 and many sets of tyres. Car was brought in 2016 the car is now coming up 6 years old, unlike most stupid people that buy new we brought it when it was 2 years old at over 60% less than its original price, in the time we have owned it after just 3 years it has paid off its full purchase price in fuel savings alone!
No wonder the Nissan Leaf has a reliability rating of 97% compared to around 60% on Tesla, at one point Tesla was second to last just in front of Volvo! And Tesla is an EV far less to break on an EV!
Great video... I have not yet been convinced about EV`s but the way in which you discuss the for and against, and in a very unbiased way, you certainly talk a lot of sense...thank`s for making sense where others just confuse us..
Take a test drive. Back in the day you could borrow one for a whole weekend
All modern phones have BMSs. They just don't have active thermal management.
Actually, other than active thermal management, a mobile phone's battery is exactly like a car battery other than the fact it is typically one or two cells instead of hundreds (hundreds of cells does enable some load balancing algorithms and that does mean that a single cell can last longer in an array than it would by itself).
All the chemistries that are used in cars are also used in phones.
You live in the UK. I know of people who live in Arizona that have leafs and have had to replace their battery in 3 years.
I own a 2019 Chevy Bolt and expect the battery to last 200,000 miles with 10% degradation (but I baby my battery).
Electrek is a trash rag (not much better than the Daily Mail just with the opposite political bias) certainly you should not trust anything you read on electrek (any more than you'd trust something you read in the daily mail).
If they did have to replace their battery after 3 years then they wouldn't pay anything due to it still being in the warranty window. Obviously they got dodgy batteries. Which they wouldn't have had to pay a penny for.
Nissan are not going to make shit products that they have to replace out of their own pockets. It's an anomaly.
@@bubba842 entirely true that the owners received replacement batteries under warranty. I am an engineer discussing what is accurate about batteries, I am not an economist concerned with the micro economics of a particular individual buying a car.
That said, nissan had to replace a lot of batteries in hot climates because the lack of active cooling, resulted in rapid degradation in a climate where the average summer temperature (daytime high) is significantly above 100° F.
I am pretty sure that the leaf was a significant financial loss for nissan in the Arizona region.
Great video. The example of going to the main dealer to replace your engine is a great one. You just wouldn't do it. I am sure as you say reconditioned battery packs will start appearing from 3rd parties. Although let's hope the Tesla repair shennanigans on 3rd party repairs doesn't affect this kind of thing. I am sure something will get sorted as per non oem repair parts on any car.
Cleveleys in Gloucestershire, are an EV specialist whom have been offering battery refurbishments/repairs for several years now. There is a UA-cam video of a 10 year old Leaf, on which they carried out a battery refurb a couple of years ago. That took 4 hours and cost the owner £600.....
Of course the Earth is flat, it rests on the back of four elephants which are stood on a giant turtle. Everybody knows that!! :p
it is known!
You know your classics!
Total sense. Im looking at one bmw i4. At the moment I spend 400 quid a month on fuel. So there is a saving to be had there
The only thing less intelligent than a "flat earther"........try Trump Supporter.
Considering the initial cost - especially of highend EVs - and how little wear-down they should have compared to a petrol car, I would actually hope that as batteries get higher energy density and better charging properties, one could upgrade to a better battery pack after a couple of years. That would add so much value because honestly, right now range and recharge time are the only weaknesses of some models. Personally, for 95% of the year, almost all EVs would satisfy my needs. And then it would be 100%. And for that I would not mind 5000£ if it prevents me from having to go for a new car instead.
Excellent presentation. Most mechanics have only experience with a lead acid car battery. Know its not the same. But. the way they fail is not holding charge. Does the EV battery units that are failing use power to charge them but say overnight loose the charge. So wasting electricity.. I can see a massive back street business sprouting up on second hand refurbish batteries. Think it will not be long before you leave your EV and return to find it jacked up and some thief pinched the battery.
hey mate big fan of your channel. You have fully covered battery degradation, but do you have a video on motor degradation? has anyone doe similar reviews of the electirc motor after X years? I would be interested to find out if there is any loss of torque/hp and what to do about it.
I bought my used leaf purely for getting to work , I have 50% range when i get back home, many many years left. :) People buying leafs and getting home with 20% left need to reconsider, that will only get you a few years.
Hello, my question is simple one,and addresses the longevity of battery life. Is slow charging, say a 110 outlet, stress a battery less and increase it's life span over level 2 or fast charges, which I understand stress and heat up the battery? I know household electricity is very slow, but, will slow charging extend a batteries usable life?
Ild like to know too, seems slower is better, i wonder if occasional fast charges are helpful.
I've seen videos about battery life in EV's but not about the life of electric motors. What is the average mileage expectancy of electric motors?
At least 400K miles for Tesla’s original AC induction electric motors. Though recently (2017-2019) they have introduced permanent magnet electric motors, which should last even longer
There's a company here in NZ called EVs enhanced that have announced their own new battery platform for the leaf offering larger capacities, better chemistries and active cooling. It's still not going to be cheap but I'd consider the upgrade to keep the leafs running. Hell they are stating they have a 72kWh I'm the works which would be very tempting.
Awesome, I hope there are more options for old EVs in future.
As a matter of wording, electric cars often have 2 batteries. a main, and an auxiliary battery. The high voltage main battery to power the car down the road, the auxiliary is the 12 volt battery, used to power the windows, head lights, fans or anything that uses the normal 12 volts. A "Battery" is 2 or more CELLS in a series circuit, to provide a voltage higher than an individual cell. Both examples in this video are cells. It IS, however, proper to call a cell a "battery", if only one is necessary to provide the system voltage. A wall clock may use only one 1.5 volt alkaline 'AA' cell, therefore, its the clock's battery. A Cell phone usually runs on the 3.7 volt Lithium Ion cell, thus, it's the phone's battery.
Why would some random battery cells failed ? Should they be all wear at the same rate or close to the same rate?
Why would one cylinder fail in an engine instead of all wearing the same?
Imperfections, variations in resistance, randomness, time...?
Informative, but a question. Why would some cells in a car’s battery fail or degrade faster than others ? Wouldn’t they all degrade at the same rate, hence replacing the whole set would be needed ?
Manufacturing tolerances would be one reason.
My wife is German and goes there every few months to see family. Before Xmas sister in law was moaning becuse brother had a Zoe on order. No range etc etc it's madness. Wife just got back Zoe delivered, sister in law in raptures about new electric car after only 3 weeks. Wife's best friend married to a retired professor of computing. It's got to be hydrogen evs are a distraction waste of time can't recycle the batteries etc etc.
They will eventually learn but it surprises me just how persuasive the negative press is. These people are smart and everybody can see that evs are practical and great to drive but they just lack imagination
Half the time it doesn’t even take the negative press, just good old laziness can do - because most people abuse their mobile phone batteries (and the manufacturers don’t help by providing life extending strategies) with the result that a good proportion fail after just 2-3 years. So EVs MUST be the same. It’s a well stated fallacy. Then there’s the ‘professor class’ where he truism that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing often comes into play. I’m 130 days into my model3 ownership and the magic of that car just keeps getting better
Hi EVM. My Tesla S90D is 4 years old and has done 130k miles. It has lost 4.9% of range over that time. In addition I have rapid charged about 70% of the time. Regards DB
my 2011 24 kwh Nissan Leaf has lost two capacity bars .seemingly overnight .Now it has lost another .capacity Bar. the most noticeable difference is a reduction in regenerating capacity.. three years ago the battery was giving 82 miles range .. now it is down to 110 KM range .(68 Miles ). it has just , yesterday passed its inspection (mot). in Portugal. I have never fast charged it and most of the time domestic charge it from overnight economy electric . Parts serviced in three years . windscreen washer fluid and wipers .one puncture repair .current KM is 32,000 .
That’s about 18 % degradation after 10 year😋 not bad 👍🏻👍🏻
BMS controls all cells in the battery and protects it from overcharging, overdischarging, balances individual cells to keep them all at the same level, to ensure better lifespan of the battery pack, mostly it will be handling temperatures as well. as a guy working on electric cars and ''clasic'' cars i know every bit what you said is true even outside of UK =D CZ is the same. most of these screaming people do not even want to understand the topic, let alone being right =D
Exactly, whoever said life was simple lied.
Thanks for the video, it is a bit more encouraging for those who run older cars to know that we probably will be able to keep an older BEV running. I do wonder however if BEV will see the end of the "classic car". Will there be people still running a 40 year old Tesla S (insert iconic BEV of your choice here) in 2050 in comparison to those currently running 40 year old ICE. Not to mention the veteran cars that are 100 years plus.
They said the same about Model T Fords If I recall lol
Thanks EVM. As you say EVs and ICE powered cars longevity depends largely on how they’ve been used. The e-Niro handbook recommends charging to 100% once a month, unless of course you have to do that anyway for your regular usage. With over 400 km of range on a bad day I don’t bother taking it passed 80% for our weekly use but I am trying to get into the routine of doing the 100% charge thing. The reason for doing this apparently is that it gives the BMS a chance to look at all the cells when they are at max voltage and balance them out for the pack. The e-Niro is rated at 64 kWh but in fact has a 67.5 kWh battery, so I guess this allows for the BMS to bypass cells that are degrading more than others and bring some of the spares into play..Anyone have any ideas on that?
Well explained and clear! My 3 year old Leaf has 96% Health at 17,500 miles. So 2% per year gives a life of about 15-20 years to 60%. There was a Leaf owner that recently bought a Leaf with degraded battery (2011 with 40-50 miles range) as his use case was a 5-10 miles a day commute to a Rail station. £5k car that costs FA to run.
Hello, can you please provide an update on your Leaf?
@@GavinScrimgeourmy leaf is a 2016 it’s still charges to 100% and give the same mileage it did when new it’s done 65000 miles and we plug it in everyday . Sits outside in rainy cold U.K. . It was frozen solid yesterday morning . But still had its full charge . I don’t know about the health but it still has all the bars .
Ordered a Honda e, do you think in the future a higher range battery could be installed?
The one thing i need to know and have yet to get an answer. Can i charge a 2021 kia nero overnight in my garage. Is it safe simple as that
Of course. Why wouldn't you be able to?