I worked on the development of Tramlink from 1989 so have some background knowledge. Woodside to Selsdon closed in 1983 due to low passenger numbers. Addiscombe also had very low passenger numbers due to its location and with East Croydon offering faster and more frequent services to London, but Woodside had better use. The Addiscombe to Elmers End line only survived because the EPB stock was stabled at Addiscombe, and British Rail already had plans to close the branch once the new trains were in service. Closure would have happened with or without the Tramlink project. One of the objectives of Tramlink was to improve links between Croydon and Bromley borough, so use of the line to Elmers End was an obvious option, which also kept a service to Woodside (with the branch to Beckenham Junction added later during the project development). We considered a route option that would use the branch through to Addiscombe Station, but that would then have required street running of trams on Clyde Road (southbound) and Canning Road (northbound) to reach Addiscombe Road and East Croydon. So following the then-disused Selsdon Line provided a better option, and which also connected with the route to New Addington.
In relation to Beckenham Junction, was the track that it uses once used by National Rail? Yes it definitely made sense using the Selsdon Line, I will likely make a video on that line in due course but it serves Addiscombe proper rather than the outskirts at Addiscombe Road, and so is more useful in that regard. A route through Addiscombe Road would have been interesting, I note that in Tramlink development plans from a while ago there were concerns as to where to send extra trams that were proposed due to the current passenger levels exhibited from Wimbledon to West Croydon. Maybe that wouldn’t have been a bad idea then looking at it from that perspective as there have been concerns about where extra trams would terminate. Interesting that Woodside was well used, Norwood Junction has a very good service level nowadays though maybe it was a different story back in the late 90s?
The Line from Crystal Palace to Beckenham Junction had originally been built as double track, but the section through Birkbeck to Beckenham Junction had been singled before we developed Tramlink. When the line was singled they presumably kept whichever track was in better condition, so the single line was on the northwest side of the formation through Birkbeck Station, but moved across to the south side somewhere around Avenue Road. As part of Tramlink the heavy rail track had to be realigned to the north side, and at the Avenue Road stop the formation had to be widened to accommodate 2 tram tracks, 2 platforms and the heavy rail.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of the Addiscombe plans as I only moved to the area in 2010 and Blackhorse Lane is now my local tram stop. It was nice to see a photo of Woodside in the steam days.
The extension to Brentford SWR would need a new bridge across the Thames with clearance for navigation. Probably a non starter because of the cost (the only thing that matters today).
An extension from the Southall Brentford branch to Brentford SWR does not require a bridge over the River Thames. What it would require is a bridge over the Great West Road.
If the Croxley Rail Link (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croxley_Rail_Link) ever gets built (yes, I know, dream on), a heritage railway from Croxley to Watford (Met) would probably be a great success given its proximity to Cassiobury Park with its miniature railway, as well as the River Colne and various other recreational amenities.
I think I mentioned this in the comments on my West London Orbital but there is a video on the Croxley Rail Link coming very soon. That's added an interesting angle that I'd be interested to discuss :)
re Brentford: only a minor addition, but in 2014 the Didcot steam centre ran their Steam Railmotor up and down the line for a weekend - ua-cam.com/video/eL-CudtGfEk/v-deo.html. I guess with ther Southall depot still in use by West Coast Railways (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southall_Railway_Centre), heritage trips would be possible at weekend, but like anything, it needs the effort and money. The GWRPG folded in 2021.
@@somenorthlondoner everyone has a different accent, modern linguistic thinking is to say it's not wrong unless it's a mistake. And even mistakes can be standardized.
@@AutoReport1 I usually get the pronunciation correct but either my mic picked it up incorrectly or I did in fact pronounce it as “seized”. For quite a lot of the recording I wasn’t feeling the best health wise (came down with a cold) so could’ve been to do with that. But thanks for telling me regardless!
Great work, once again. Here's the link to Part 1, covering Grove Park-Bromley North and Custom House-North Woolwich: ua-cam.com/video/aKXmVd8RWA8/v-deo.html
I worked on the development of Tramlink from 1989 so have some background knowledge.
Woodside to Selsdon closed in 1983 due to low passenger numbers. Addiscombe also had very low passenger numbers due to its location and with East Croydon offering faster and more frequent services to London, but Woodside had better use. The Addiscombe to Elmers End line only survived because the EPB stock was stabled at Addiscombe, and British Rail already had plans to close the branch once the new trains were in service. Closure would have happened with or without the Tramlink project.
One of the objectives of Tramlink was to improve links between Croydon and Bromley borough, so use of the line to Elmers End was an obvious option, which also kept a service to Woodside (with the branch to Beckenham Junction added later during the project development). We considered a route option that would use the branch through to Addiscombe Station, but that would then have required street running of trams on Clyde Road (southbound) and Canning Road (northbound) to reach Addiscombe Road and East Croydon. So following the then-disused Selsdon Line provided a better option, and which also connected with the route to New Addington.
In relation to Beckenham Junction, was the track that it uses once used by National Rail?
Yes it definitely made sense using the Selsdon Line, I will likely make a video on that line in due course but it serves Addiscombe proper rather than the outskirts at Addiscombe Road, and so is more useful in that regard.
A route through Addiscombe Road would have been interesting, I note that in Tramlink development plans from a while ago there were concerns as to where to send extra trams that were proposed due to the current passenger levels exhibited from Wimbledon to West Croydon. Maybe that wouldn’t have been a bad idea then looking at it from that perspective as there have been concerns about where extra trams would terminate.
Interesting that Woodside was well used, Norwood Junction has a very good service level nowadays though maybe it was a different story back in the late 90s?
The Line from Crystal Palace to Beckenham Junction had originally been built as double track, but the section through Birkbeck to Beckenham Junction had been singled before we developed Tramlink. When the line was singled they presumably kept whichever track was in better condition, so the single line was on the northwest side of the formation through Birkbeck Station, but moved across to the south side somewhere around Avenue Road. As part of Tramlink the heavy rail track had to be realigned to the north side, and at the Avenue Road stop the formation had to be widened to accommodate 2 tram tracks, 2 platforms and the heavy rail.
Interesting, I wasn't aware of the Addiscombe plans as I only moved to the area in 2010 and Blackhorse Lane is now my local tram stop. It was nice to see a photo of Woodside in the steam days.
Ah cool!
Really enjoyed this!
Thanks so much :D
The extension to Brentford SWR would need a new bridge across the Thames with clearance for navigation. Probably a non starter because of the cost (the only thing that matters today).
Yes most likely.
An extension from the Southall Brentford branch to Brentford SWR does not require a bridge over the River Thames. What it would require is a bridge over the Great West Road.
@@ianrazey8412would more likely be a dive under imo
If the Croxley Rail Link (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croxley_Rail_Link) ever gets built (yes, I know, dream on), a heritage railway from Croxley to Watford (Met) would probably be a great success given its proximity to Cassiobury Park with its miniature railway, as well as the River Colne and various other recreational amenities.
I think I mentioned this in the comments on my West London Orbital but there is a video on the Croxley Rail Link coming very soon.
That's added an interesting angle that I'd be interested to discuss :)
@@jackmartinleith It would only be from the junction to the LUL station. Like the Addiscombe proposal too short to be of any use.
@@juliansadler6263 Not so. There are *many* even shorter heritage railways.
@@jackmartinleith One loco shunting up and down does not a railway make.
@@juliansadler6263 You Yoda?
re Brentford: only a minor addition, but in 2014 the Didcot steam centre ran their Steam Railmotor up and down the line for a weekend - ua-cam.com/video/eL-CudtGfEk/v-deo.html. I guess with ther Southall depot still in use by West Coast Railways (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southall_Railway_Centre), heritage trips would be possible at weekend, but like anything, it needs the effort and money. The GWRPG folded in 2021.
First time I've ever heard anyone say ceased the same as seized.
Didn't realise that. Thanks for telling me regardless. I'll make sure to bear that in mind!
@@somenorthlondoner everyone has a different accent, modern linguistic thinking is to say it's not wrong unless it's a mistake. And even mistakes can be standardized.
@@AutoReport1 I usually get the pronunciation correct but either my mic picked it up incorrectly or I did in fact pronounce it as “seized”. For quite a lot of the recording I wasn’t feeling the best health wise (came down with a cold) so could’ve been to do with that. But thanks for telling me regardless!
@@somenorthlondoner the cold might explain the unexpected voicing of the final /st/ to /zd/.
Great work, once again.
Here's the link to Part 1, covering Grove Park-Bromley North and Custom House-North Woolwich:
ua-cam.com/video/aKXmVd8RWA8/v-deo.html
Thanks a lot :)