Liquefying a Toxic Gas with a Refrigeration Compressor
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- Опубліковано 19 жов 2023
- This video holds nostalgic value for me. Over 15 years ago, I compressed ammonia into an oxygen tank using a refrigerator compressor in my parents' garage. For today's video, I met up with Elias and recreated that exact experiment.
Elias Experiments: / @eliasexperiments
Join my Patreon and support my projects! Your contribution means the world to me and helps bring my ideas to life. I truly appreciate your support! / advancedtinkering - Наука та технологія
Don't store the cylinder in your house or garage. BTW, I'm sure you know that brass and ammonia don't get along.
Adding brass and ammonia to my no no square along with copper and acetylene
Don't worry, the gas cylinder will definitely not be stored in a house. Yes, we were aware of that. The video was not intended to demonstrate an optimal method for liquefying ammonia (which would be much easier with dry ice or LN2). I just wanted to revisit the method I used when I was young and didn't have access to dry ice or LN2.
@@AdvancedTinkeringUse it to make an ammonia cooler driven by burning ammonia.
@@AdvancedTinkering I hope there is no brass in the valve of that bottle...
@@Sigmatechnica Tetraamminecopper(II) Nitrate formation or other bad problems... Ammonia It's very corrosive for many metals.
5:22 Get ready for the Advanced Tinkering stare of death
Haha :D
refrigeration compressors are actually incredibly useful, and cheap, for the movement of a wonderful range of gaseous solvents! My personal favourite are the R600a compressors which are ideal for Butane and other alkanes! Very handy for non-polar extractions.
pinging HyperspacePirate
Yup! You can also make small custom refrigerated appliances by charging them with straight butane. Also a second compressor can serve as a vacuum pump to evacuate the system of any moisture/air.
Most of these comps req oil, you don't want oil in your extract.
Anyways, when you've got a volume of butane and thca oil extract - bubble ammonia into it. The ammonia forms a salt of sorts with the thca
I use one as a vacuum pump. It was basically free when we got a new fridge. Also, the guys who picked up the old one said I was welcome to come to their business and take as many compressors as I wanted since they have to pay for disposal by weight.
Okay, some notes from an electrical standpoint.
1) The capacitor cannot be the wrong way around. It's AC.
2) Outlet strips sometimes have a single pole switch means it's a 50-50 that you are disconnecting the neutral so the rest remains live, just unoperational
3) Trying to start a motor multiple times in a row puts massive thermal strain on the windings because the starting current is usually around 7-8 times as high as the running/rated current. The motor getting extremely hot is completely expected with fast switching, also known as short cycling.
4) If the motor has 2 capacitors it means it has a starter winding and a normal motor winding. The starter coil takes a lot more power on startup and it switches off over time when the needed RPM is met. If the motor stalls, the start winding has no chance to disconnect because of the low RPM, usually via a centrifugal switch. If the pressure differential is high enough (the max is literally written on the side), it overcomes the torque that the coils can deliver on startup and while it can barely but *run* at a given pressure delta, it cannot *start* at it.
5) Check if you have oil lol.
I hope this was of any help.
“…since the water is grounded…” 😂
Very nice editing and thumbnail!
It was fun doing this with you and I hope there is a lot more to come!
Amazing channel. If I may give you an advice, to maximize the release of NH3 at room temperature, dissolve salt in the conc. Ammonia water solution. Add NaOH or NaCl large quantity. This will "salt out" the NH3
We always called them compression fittings.
That's good to know, thanks!
The inner part is called a ferrule
Apparently this also applies to:
-eletrical crimp ferrules
-curcular copper ferrules
-stainless steel tri-clamp ferrules (sterile environments)
Looking forward to seeing the beautiful blue of solvated electrons.
That is the plan. And some other experiments.
@@AdvancedTinkering Push it all the way to metallic gold, please! Most everyone stops at the blue.
You could use it to dissolve some sodium and look at the beautiful solvated electrons
This is one of the experiments we have planned for an upcoming video.
Lithium as well!
@@AdvancedTinkering Awesome, I love this experiment
many fridge compressors the inside (where the motor and piston are) is filled with oil to better lubricate and for heat distribution, in most of the scrapped compressors that oil is poured out. happened to me two times in a row for a fridge compressor to die because of an overheating like in your case... get the specs of the compressor and buy some compressor oil...
Not to forget that moste oil these days is Polyester oil, probably creates a strong acid with ammonia.
@@H4zuZazu you are right, i totally forgot about that, the gases you are compressing are in direct contact with the oil...
9:34 Advanced DJ Tinkering
Never seen solvated electrons produced by cesium in liquid ammonia, could be interesting/dangerous
Will do that. And I will try to find out if these solvated electrons are stable in liquid ammonia at room temperature.
It makes a golden yellow solution. The solvated electrons will have the absorption band of the host ions for example lithium and sodium are blue, cesium is yellow, and barium is blue green.❤
@@christopherleubner6633 damn that sounds sick
Somehow, the heavy German accent just makes it feel more... _scientific._
The first toxic gas I liquified was chlorine but with a much simpler approach - a dry ice acetone bath. I wish I had access to compressor to do so.
Using dry ice or LN2 would actually be a lot easier. We just used the compressor because that method had sentimental value to me as I did it when I was young and did not have access to LN2 or dry ice.
@@AdvancedTinkering Lol, just the exact opposite story of mine, dry ice was easily accessible for me when I was young, and literally, it is the thing that got me into science.
I wish we had access to dry ice in Europe lol
A very common brand for high pressure 'instrument tubing' fittings is Swagelok - they use a 2 piece ferrule to dig into the material.
Just another note is that for polymer tubing the proper usage is to press fit a metal insert inside the ID of the tubing, so that the metal ring crimps on. Without the insert, there is a high risk of unpredictable and catastropic failure when the tubing pops off, because the ferrule hasn't crimped onto anything solid, only crimping onto soft plastic. Some polymer tubings may be rated for this, but at least with Swagelok and standard PTFE/HDPE/PP/nylon tubings the metal insert is required for rated pressure.
Additionally, the swagelok brand has a 'go/no-go gauge' that you can purchase - if the gauge slips in between the fitting and the nut, it has not been tightened sufficiently.
Looks like he does have the ferrule in.
Swagelock is soo expansive it is hi quality but for this kind of work the cheap cutting ring connectors from say LandEfeld are way more affordable. I am only using swagelock for hi purity and high vacuum applications.
HY-Loc and Parker make similar fittings.
Yup swagelock is reliable, they even use those for HPLC stuff. ❤
I don't know if I'll regret giving you this idea because it's something I have been thinking about doing myself for a while, but I don't see myself liquifying ammonia anytime soon and I lack a lot of the necessary equipment, so here you go:
Galvanising stuff electrolytically with various metals has thousands of usecases. One metal that would be very useful to coat things electrolytically with is Titanium. But you can't galvanise anything with Titanium in the traditional way with watery solutions, because the Titanium ion is said to be so reactive that it instead rips Oxygen atoms off water molecules, forming Titanium Dioxide.
Now, water and liquid ammonia share many characteristics - with ammonia not having any oxygen in its structure and a lot lesss oxidative power. I believe it should be possible to galvanise stuff with metal ions solubilised in liquid ammonia. And if thats the case, you should be able to galvanise stuff with Titanium in liquid ammonia, which would actually be a very useful development in material science with money making potential. You'd definitely be a first on UA-cam with that!
I don't know if that's a brilliant idea, or an idea that is so risky nobody would try it
@@phobos1963 It's all a matter of the equipment you have access to. He already liquified quite a respectable amount of ammonia and stored it, imo that should be the most dangerous aspect of the experiment already done.
Yeah I don't plan on ever having enough ammonia on hand that could be liquid.
If anything I'd probably just make it as needed with a generator.
I’m a diesel mechanic in the US and I use the type of fittings shown at 2:44 used to connect the copper line to a plastic line. We typically call them “Compression Fittings”. Most of the time they are used to deliver compressed air from the engine mounted pump to suspension airbags, brake chambers and other air power accessories. When installed properly, they will hold a lot of pressure (typically on a truck that is around 100-120 PSI or 6.98-8.27 BAR). You just need to ensure both the pieces (called “Ferrules”) are installed on a flush cut line (the inner ferrule is used to reinforce the plastic tube and the outer ferrule is used to compress around the outside of the tube when the nut the tightened onto the fitting).
Some people have used compression fittings for unapproved applications like hydraulic brake lines on automobiles. That should never ever be done since compression fittings are typically not designed to hold that much pressure. Most brake lines use double flared lines and specially designed fittings that can handle the pressure. Most brakes operate around 1000 PSI or 68.9 BAR and the pressure can spike up to around 1500 PSI OR 103.4 BAR when panic braking or if there is an issue with the ABS (Anti-lock Brake System). Still, I have seen many vehicles with them installed on their brake lines and were used for long periods of time without issue. My point is compression fittings can hold a lot of pressure when installed properly.
I love me a good Schneidringverbindung application!
I once worked at a margarine production plant. We used ammonia as our refrigerant to keep our refrigerated section cold. The pipes were icy. You could see it and feel it. Occasionally, you could smell it.
Great Video! 👍
I'm kinda curious: From which Bundesland are you?
6:11 Other channels mention how the connections got lubed. I like that.
And again, many thanks to both of you for the unusual extraction of pure ammonia. I am wondering if the compressor casing is water-proof?
It's not a particularly useful method but fun to do. And it had nostalgic reasons since I did it many years ago.
Yes the compressor is completely sealed (besides of course the inlet and outlet). And the electrical connections on top are not water proof.
A compressor option would be an open drive compressor with less copper alloys inside like a York 210 CXY 5150 automotive compressor. These are used successfully as ammonia transfer pumps in our refrigeration industry.
If you want a colourful experiment involving liquid ammonia, the Na/NH3 reduction of PPh3 to NaPPh2 is one I ran a lot during my PhD, and should be doable with your Schlenk line setup.
If it works it ain't stupid! Nice video :) If you have acces to crown ethers you could try to isolate some electrides from an ammonia solution with an alkali metal.
Mega gutes Video 😁
I absolutely love you guys and think this was an awesome project. Just one observation you know there's always one of us in the comments 😂 buuuuut remember that ammonia is highly corrosive to copper brass, etc. But I know this was just for fun. Next Fluorine 😅
Oh you guys are getting a visit for sure
Als Elektriker hab ich jetzt mal nichts gesehen. Gutes Video^^
I don´t know why but your upload was not shown in my subscriptions feed. Great demo anyways
I suggest you create a passive ice freezer using calcium chloride and a solar heat collector
Why did you use the molsieves to catch the oil? Their cavities should be too small for the oil anyways, right? Od did you use extra big ones?
Yes, the oil is not absorbed into the pores of the molecular sieve. However, it doesn't need to be. The goal was simply to have a large surface area where the oil can be slowed down and seperated. Activated charcoal could have also been used. Additionally, the molecular sieve has the advantage of absorbing any remaining moisture that might still be present.
Hello there, this is off topic, but your video about cloud chamber construction has a spelling error in the title: "cloud chamber contruction"
(the purpose of this comment is meant to help fix the error, not to make fun of spelling mistakes). love your and Elias's videos! keep them coming!
Thank you for pointing that out! I just changed it.
@@AdvancedTinkering I'm looking forward to see what you guys do next :)
You always need to cool the refrigerator compressor. I usually used just a fan blowing on it, could run it for 13 hours.
Excuse me. I wish I could just think too much. The compressor in the video looks like it's for a refrigerator or an air conditioner.
Based on my practical experience 20 years ago, one in 300 compressors in that field is new and has electric leakage.
Excuse me for making boring comments to those who are making such a great video.
-----
Supplement
If the compressor is for refrigerator or air conditioner, the still cold refrigerant (if it used to be "fron") is circulated around the "motor in the compressor" and cooled.
If the air inlet temperature of the compressor is high, there may be a problem.
Finally, if you pass ammonia through a compressor designed to pass only substances that do not react with other things at room temperature like Freon, the machine part and oil will ... leave it to your imagination.
The compressor can’t start with the back pressure.
11:08
The ammonia probably destroyed the copper windings.
That's why I only worked with voiceovers... 🤣
Maybe you can make some ammonia solution from the gas after you used it up completely beforehand... 🙃
Ich hab ja schon viele deiner Videos gesehen und dieses ist das unprofessionellste, aber auch das beste :D
Hat was von ElectroBoom! :D
Ist das konzentriert? *kurz riechen* :D
Do you think the copper and ammonia in the compressor caused it to die?
Those fitting are a little different from what im use to but possibly compression fittings
How did the compressor die? Blocked or ground out? Im sure it did not like extra starting capacitor.Just equalize the Pressure before starting it. Or even better use a Fridge compressor because the Reciprocating compressors and can Hard start. Also make sure you dry the NH3 Really well and you will be good. Dont overfill the Cylinder too since Liquid expansion is no joke.
Use the NH3 in a SOFC! Green Tech of the Future!
Um Ammoniank nachzuweisen gibt es so Schwefelsticks, die werden bei Großkühlanlge genutzt um Lecks zu finden. Du kannst wahscheinlich auch einfach so Schwefel anzünden und den Schlauch dagegen halten dann entsteht so eine Art rauch. Ohne das man sich die Nase zerstört.
Interesting! Can you safely do it with hydrogen?
Yo this turned out to be very exciting! Bag filling, will pop soon unless compressor can power on and begin moving poison gas into the gas cylinder. Identifying and then fixing the issue before death💀🥀
That's a compression fitting in Englisch. There are ones for plumbing in houses to high pressure hydraulic systems.
I hope you try again soon. 😊
Compressor died, most probably, because it overheated. They are designed to work in closed circuit of refrigerant and are cooled with refrigerant by proper setting of superheating. In your case he didn't have any cooling, since ammonia vapor was probably already too hot. You can say it had enormous superheat!
Also, prolong running in open circuit makes him lose oli. As you already know, oil vapor is present on discharge side.
Bad wiring didn't help either, probably accelerated heat death.
And in the end, you want open type compressor for ammonia. Since it will eat windings of the motor.
Me when I inhale too much ammonia (it turned by stomach and lungs into soap):
Can you burn ammonia or smth?
Kühlschrank Kompressoren haben fast immer Start probleme bei gegen druck. Versuch mal einen Industriellen 3 Phasen Kompressor zu besorgen und betrei ihn mit einem Frequenumrichter. Dann kannst du auch die menge bestimmen und must nicht so ein "Profesionellen" zwischenspeicher verwenden😂
Das klingt nach einem Plan :D Die Methode, so wie sie hier zu sehen ist, ist sowieso nicht geeignet, um praktikabel Ammoniak zu verflüssigen. Aber es hatte sentimentalen Wert für mich, diesen Versuch so zu wiederholen. Damals hatte ich keinen Zugang zu Trockeneis oder LN2. Damit wäre es weitaus einfacher den Ammoniak zu verflüssigen.
Und ich will nichts gegen meine professionelle Zwischenspeichertüte hören! :D
I like how you say the numbers in german, then potato potato. I feel like it should be kartoffel kartöffel
make a (probably low efficiency, low rate) ammonia synthesizer with iron catalyst
Perhaps the compressor oil was not compatible with ammonia
As far as I know, the oil in the compressor was mineral oil which should be resistant to ammonia. But I can't be absolutely certain, of course. The best course of action would have been to replace the oil beforehand. However, the method was not intended to be practical for liquefying ammonia. The use of a compressor had more sentimental reasons, as I liquefied it with a compressor in my early years when I didn't have access to dry ice or liquid nitrogen.
Umm please keep in mind that in certain situations if/when refridgernt gets contaminated for what ever reason with what ever. when in everyday use in residential / commercial applications it either turns basic or acidic on the ph scale. which eats away at the varnish insulation on the copper wire windings in the motor , which takes its toll on the windings and they short out to each other and or short to ground and they can burn in two causing an open winding .
the type of compressor used in this video is called a scroll compressor they're sensitive to contaminates of both liquid or solid forms .
A recipricating compressor might have held up better/longer , the compressor used in refridgerators and home freezers are usually recipricating style compressors . these have a crank and pistons and bores and heads much like a 2 cycle engine and reed valves like 2 cycle engines have. these could be single cyclender , oposing twin cylender or 2x2 opposeing depending on the size of application the equipment is .
hvac compressors make good vacume pumps and air compressors especially the compressors that look like air compressor pumps which is actually what they are but semi hermatically sealed . these have a seperate motor that can be removed and replaced without pumping down the system.
Make a icy ball,, it's one of the first forms of refrigeration
Your videos where you make glass apparatus are amazing. your chemistry videos good. I know you like to have fun making them. But your electrical skills make me want to run and hide. If you could have purged the pressure each time before starting the compressor, you likely would still have a compressor. Still thanks for the video I'm going to hide over here now.
Haha, I'm sorry :D. Venting the pressure line each time would have had other draw backs. At the very least, one would have needed to devise another setup to neutralize the ammonia. The video wasn't about demonstrating a practical method for liquefying ammonia. That could be done more easily with dry ice or LN2. I simply wanted to repeat the experiment for nostalgic reasons, as I had done it when I was young.
Für mich als kältetechniker was es echt unterhaltsam euch zu sehen wie ihre hier rumexperimentiert.
Fun fact für amonika brauch ihr absorabtions system. Am einfachsten wäre es wenn ihr dies aus einem altem hotel Kühlschrank ausschlachtet. Falls ihr fragen habt fragt einfach.
Grüsse aus der schweiz
try to dissolve cesium in liquid ammonia under argon.
That's the plan ;)
u need no pressure on the outlet when u start it that how it works in the
ac
Could you give me the spelling in German for 'cutting ring fitting'? Ich habe ein bisschen Deutsch gelernt, but I couldn't even make out all of those syllables lol.
Isn't there a concern with ammonia and copper reacting?
You could do the same with a fire, 2 coils of brake line a bucket of water and your bottle in vacuum in a bucket of ice. Or, just buy anhydrous ammonia from the people that make it. It’s pretty cheap. Refrigerant grade is probably the best bang for your money. Has to be 99.98% pure
Here in America it's frowned upon to purchase anhydrous ammonia without special permits due to people here really like to react it with stuff they shouldn't 😂
@@daltonsoutherland8836 yeah. 10-4 big time on that lol
I wanna be like you when I grow up.
Now i'm sure you wont have any problems with a stuffed nose for the next few weeks xD
Close the bottle and bleed the high side pressure off.
The compressor can’t start against the high head pressure.
Water is grounded! 😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣
Does ammonia smell like dirty public restroom? Asking because of my own amateur learning experiment and unsure about results 😂.
No not really. It has a very irritating smell. But not like a dirty public bathroom.
At least that's my subjective opinion.
Yeah, it seems your compressor needs oil in it desperately, we used air compressor oil, or non detergent engine oil, thin as possible no thicker than 5-w30, the 0-w** should be fine , a synthetic possibly, a detergent oil probably will just collect moisture, but used like this, should be fine, drilling a tiny hole in the can, and using a copper washer and tapping the hole , otherwise sand the paint off around the hole and weld a nut on. Sealing the hole with a short bolt and copper washer! About 1 litre at the absolute most, using a catch can on the output!! With the filter! (Happy compressing and pumping!
Here in the states we have issues with meth heads cracking open anhydrous ammonia takes on farms.... But for what you have maybe react it over some kind of catalyst for a cool reaction?
Instead of brazing that nipple onto the copper pipe, you could've used a high-pressure compression fitting.
The pipe had a weird diameter. Couldn't find a compression fitting for it.
11:28 this reminds me of Wranglestar putting a piece of tin foil across his bed and sticking the end of a wire into his homes ground outlet .. .. to "ground" himself
Rule of thumb: If you stick anything into an outlets ground, You just became the path of least resistance. If power shorts and runs through ground it eletrifies the entire grounding line including the one in your bucket
There's probably a CFI breaker installed. A ground fault will lead to immediate power cut.
Your compressor died because of starting it with a high head pressure and oversized capacitor which overheats the start winding with every start cycle.
You need a bleed valve to relieve the head pressure, then start the compressor and then close the valve to keep pumping.
The compressor will also overheat if used too long because in normal operation the refrigerant cools the compressor.
No ammonia eats copper and its alloys. Hermetic compressors are full of these metals inside and would be destroyed by ammonia
Ammonia needs to be anhydrous to not destroy your compressor. The stuff will disolve copper and brass, especially if not strictly anhydrous.😮
Ich sage nur so... Ammoniak kann eine Explosionsphähige Atmosphäre bilden (als Video Idee)
Solvatize some electrons!
Will do!
use the ammonia as a refrigerant to liquefy another gas
Firstly you shouldn’t be using a hermetic compressor for ammonia nor should you be using any copper or brass and that also means that you shouldn’t use silver solder.
All copper and brass will react with the ammonia and the compressor will fail.
All exposed materials need to be steel or stainless steel
You are absolutely right about that. However, compressors designed for ammonia are quite expensive. If you're spending that much money, you could have simply bought a bottle of ammonia. As mentioned in the video, dry ice or liquid nitrogen would have been much easier for condensing the ammonia. The goal was to experiment with a cost-effective DIY method to liquefy ammonia, which I tried when I was young and didn't have access to dry ice or liquid nitrogen. It was not meant to show the best or even a good method.
Copper (or brass) plus ammonia don't mix! and the POE in the compressor with ammonia is a NO NO! Use dry ice to condense in the bottle.
As I explained in the video, the goal was not to find the most practical way to liquefy ammonia. Dry ice or LN2 would be much simpler for that.
I simply wanted to repeat the experiment for nostalgic reasons, as I had done it when I was young.
To the best of my knowledge, the oil in the compressor was basic mineral oil.
Ammonia is not so toxic. Sulfur dioxide, chlorine and super toxic phosgene are definitely a lot more poisonous.
That's correct. You will probably always find something more toxic. But that doesn't mean it's not toxic.
@@AdvancedTinkering Of course! I hope that it was air and not ammonia when you vented the cylinder right on your face 😅
Haha, it definitely was air ;)
cryogenics is the way to do this
make an air conditioner that is powered by solar
You can definitely make an absorption type ammonia system. I built one in high school. It blew off a steel brake line, and we had to run out of the shop class😂
Много медных деталей , будет коррозия.
up your safety game you fools
Anyone else that started holding their breath when he opened the canister of air in his own face, think it was liquid ammonia?
You need to shake the compressor the motor is stuck probably out of oil or low usually a jiggle while giving it power or a swift kick works
TURN IT INTO NITRIC ACID
Solvated election ammonia solutions are cool. And maybe you can finally post some better pictures to Wikipedia
Compressor cannot start with high head pressure!
Ok I'll subscribe. 😢. Lol
Make some hydrazine and put it in your car
What is molecular "sith", "shif", "filth"? I can't really hear what he's calling it.
"Sieve"
@@AdvancedTinkering Ah, sieve of course! It's obvious now when I think about it, it just eluded me in the moment. Thanks, and great series by the way.
When you tell us something is dangerous, please explain why it is dangerous.
We see you sniffing it to know when the evacuation is complete, and it leads to "Well, how bad can it be?" to anyone wanting to copy you.
I can understand your argument. However, it's simply not possible for me to explain all the dangers and their extent. There are many details I can't cover in a video. My videos are not tutorials.
When I watch videos of skydivers, racers, or divers, I don't think, "I can do that too". I assume a certain level of personal responsibility and the ability to assess whether one possesses the expertise to perform what's shown.
Burn it and compare the flame with other fuels
Breaking Bad but in Germany
Deutsch ist Amtssprache!
A comedy of errors
Hahaha
No one say germans dont know fun.
And we kind of have a century-long history with dangerous/toxic gases... ;)
Turned your compressor oil to soap 🤔😅