I LOVED this podcast. Might be in my top three so far this year. Smart, funny, non-ideological. Really great. Make it a regular thing and get a fourth. Nellie Bowles would be my pick.
Hard to do impressions of Fink. Fink possesses a voice that sounds approximately like two seals fornicating while dragging their claws against a chalkboard.
I read The Tragedy of Great Power Politics in college. To summarize, John Mearsheimer played Risk as a kid and thought it was a true story. That was him at his most morally coherent.
I've never really agreed with him, but I've listened to him a lot because everyone insists he's an expert. But good grief, that was one of the most wrong things I've ever heard in my life. He's a charlatan.
Finkelstein may have played by the rules at your place, but he certainly didn't with the Lex Friedman/Benny Morris/ Destiny discussion. I have a hard time even thinking he's actually intelligent since watching that desaster.
I actually quite respect Finkelstein, though we have some stark disagreement. I think most people would have to agree, that impression is spot on, and funny as hell.
Great podcast... I take issue with the idea that Mate or Blumenthal deserve any credit for whatever you perceive they got right. I wouldn't give them credit journalistically any more than I would credit a rain dancer for dancing before a hurricane happened to hit lul.
@@judahjayson684 My Issue is the explicit Assad support, denying that he used sarin gas on his own people in Syria during the civil war. Also there is no genocide bud haha.
@@chrisstultz8143 killing more than +45,000 and nearly 100,000 people mutilated and with missing legs and arms and also more than 2 million in starvation and famine.
Great show! Really enjoyed this group of people. This has become one of my favorite podcasts. I always learn. And Moynihan’s impersonation was hilarious!
platform everyone....but you have to make sure you have the ability to fact check them in real time guys like finklestein and khalidi are allowed to spew nonsense on multiple platforms
The question whether the US/Biden was right to pressure and criticize Israel is misguided ... just like in Israel, these decisions also respond to, and reflect (to a certain extent, of course), public opinion It isn't a matter of accuracy or some sort of objective moral standing
1:25:20 that's what I really agree with Coleman on. These general obvious things that people don't really debate, in this case the apparent types of society.
Is Noam talking about getting a hangover from Fernet Branca? It's 39% alcohol, about what most liquors are. Also, it's very strongly flavored. I put half an ounce of it in an Old Fashioned and rarely drink it by itself.
I always find it so odd when Mearsheimer starts talking about war crimes. The theory of "Offensive Realism" is the most brutal form of structural realism. Right now, he's sounding like a Liberal Internationalist.
Ummm BULLSHIT! Just like the beheaded babies, baby in the oven, baby cut out of the womb, seriously COME ONNN you can’t just use the actual atrocities that Hamas committed that day? You really got to make this ridiculous nonsense up? I wonder why that is? Could it be so you can continue to justify the massive atrocites Israel is CURRENTLY committing in Gaza today?
Ok this needs to happen more often. Especially the poking at Norm part. Was he "playing by the rules" with Destiny? Pretty sure he thought he was on the Jerry Springer show.
the concepts of war crimes and international law are all great until you get to the point of extremis where any kind of liberal order surviving is on the line. At that point liberalism is just a hand tied behind the back of the side fighting for it.
Sovits did have long range bombers, but didn’t use them like we did because 1) we were already doing it 2) their Air Force was focused on supporting ground operations ie flying artillery
Who is the blond woman? I usually try to support people on podcasts I listen to by following them on Twitter and I normally don't listen to this one but found it because Moynihan. I obviously already knew Michael, Coleman, Dan, and Noam.
Also, re: PhD students... We get a stipend funded by the university which is funded by... the endowment. So investments in companies or any asset related to Israel is actually what pays our salaries, the professors, and the staff
1:22:29 This is an aspect of the Israel’s tactics in Gaza that is *never* discussed. So, you pose the question: “If not like this, how should Israel be prosecuting this war?” You get some mumbo jumbo about special forces going in, more ground troops, etc. and the conversation stops. I’ve yet to hear anybody ask why Israel should risk its troops in a ground war. Why would any country risk its soldiers if bombing from the air is far safer?
You sound like you have a malformed moral outlook on life. A basic exercise would be to put yourself in the shoes of the children who have been murdered by the IDF and whether they bear responsibility for what happened on Oct 7. Now multiply that by 19,000.
@@SuperKripke When I put myself in the position of those kids’ parents, I am overcome with rage at Hamas for starting this war, failing to build bomb shelters for me and my family, investing my aid money in tunnels and weapons, hiding behind and under my people, and generally wasting the last 20 years pursuing genocide and ethnic cleansing with zero chance of success.
@@SuperKripkethey were all alive before Oct 7, before Hamas decided to provoke a war and putting all from Gaza at risk. WTF did Hamas think would happen after the Oct 7 attack? Was Israel supposed to not respond? Blame Hamas for Israel relentless assault. Hamas wanted to go to war and they got more than they bargained for, and are responsible for the Innocent lives lost
@@comedycellarclips Branca was mother’s milk for many of us in the restaurant industry in SF buts it’s a bit rough. Try Montenegro on the rocks (can add a lemon or orange slice). A bit sweeter but still herbaceous and great to sip on. Also, if you can find it, try Vergano Americano (rocks, splash of soda and an orange wheel/slice). It is what Campari wishes it was. Cheers!
17:00 would love to hear about the fact check regarding sahar tartak's case, i was pretty sure it was confirmed that she was hit in her eye with a flag pole, so is that the misinfo?
The Fifith column podcast really needs to get on UA-cam, I'm really enjoying Michael Moynihan lately. Love how he handle Briahnna Joy Gray at the Dissidence debate the other day
@@RandyMarshFrmSP no link a commentor on Brianna twitter feed. After she referred to eli and michael as Islamicphobics racist who know nothing but how to fight ... She doesn't mention then by name
Secular Jewish life recognized that it’s capacity to survive in the long run required a state and a national culture. Israel solved the problem of assimilation. And of course the religious Jew (not a Jew who thinks saying words makes a child who is not committing to practice Judaism Jewish) does not have this problem. It is a bizarre thing to listen to a man who has intermarried discuss Israel’s need to give up security for the sake of an extremely assimilated and acculturated Jewish public. Again, if Noam was remotely educated about Judaism, he would know that many Jews died in Egypt in the Rabbinic telling - Jews who choose to leave the nation and remain in Egyptian society. It is not an easy thing to remain a Jew but it is not the responsibility of the Israeli public (which is largely traditional/ religious in sentiment) to facilitate a relatively hollow and empty ‘Jewish’ identity that amounts to little more than solidarity and Seinfeld.
I imagine US support for Israel has at least in part relied on all those secular, extremely assimilated Jewish public you speak of. If Israel and/or Israelis really want to show how little they care, not accepting aid from the US would be quite the message.
They say the same thing about every war. The Japanese would've surrendered, (Germany had already surrendered) Truman wanted to drop the bombs as a display of force to the Soviets.
@@MY-hc5fb Were you thumbing through Truman’s diary as you typed this? What possesses you of such arrogant confidence? Like Noam said it took not one but 2 bombs. Whatever you think you know about Truman’s motives I’m sure who have an even foggier notion of Imperial Japan.
@@MY-hc5fbwhat does "the Japanese would have surrendered" mean? Surrendered when or how? After a fall on invasion they would have? Is your argument that the bombs solely got dropped as a dispaly of force to the Soviets?
@@boatbutchlet me change my argument. The US dropped the bombs to end the war, and as a display of force to the Russians, and to test them. The primary motive was to end the war, but the secondary motives are why they used the bombs specifically and not discuss surrender terms. 1. Germany already surrendered. Japanese defeat was all but a matter of time. 2. The Soviet-Japanese neutrality pact had ended. Which means soviets were going to Enter the war. (They actually did conquer some surrounding islands.) You can figure out why the US didn't want that. 3. The US used two different types of atomic weapons, both targeted at cities. 4. The U.S. called for “unconditional surrender”, or “swift and utter destruction”. They knew the Japanese would not accept an “unconditional” surrender. 5. Advisors to Truman asked him to change terms of surrender, and allow for the Japanese to keep their Emperor. They felt this was the main reason Japan did not surrender. 5. The US dropped the two different atomic bombs, one plutonium one uranium, just a few days apart. They didn't give sufficient time for a surrender to take place. Probably missing a couple but those are a few of the big arguments.
Another thing (I know I keep going on, but some of the things said in this podcast really upset me) how can the club owner compare Afrikaners to Jewish people? When were the Afrikaners ever slaughtered in a Holocaust by south African black people? Where are all the pogroms against Afrikaners that drove them to settle in South Africa? There is zero comparison between Afrikaners and Israeli Jews, so if American Jews don't have the backbone to stand up proudly and defend their heritage, then THAT'S what they should be ashamed of - not the actions of the Israeli government.
What makes you say that the girl being stabbed in the eye isn't true? You didn't debunk anything. I think it was pretty obvious what the guy with the flag was trying to do. Most people holding a stick don't hold it horizontally when walking in crowded spaces.
You could be right, but it sure doesn't look like it. forward.com/opinion/608230/jews-have-to-stop-believing-conspiracy-theories-yale-columbia-antisemitism/
yeah I think the samething you know how easy it is to go a quick little jab, no video could every truely pick it up, I too saw the video and yeah it doesn't look like much but it doesn't take much at all
@@comedycellarclips The article seems to allude to an entirely different video than the one shown on Breaking Points and TYT. I agree with you that there is ambiguity there. I just don't agree that the video shows much. As such, it's a really poorly taken video that doesn't show much of anything. That being said, yes, I don't like the anti semitic charge either. It doesn't seem to be very effective. Here are a few people I'd love for you to get on: Candace Owens, Jonathan Greenblatt, Dr Avi Bitterman
44:44 If you're looking for that deeply intellectual part of the conversation where they pose the question of whether anti-Zionist protesters are unattractive.
i am salivating for a convo between Noam and ILLAN PAPPE or Noam and MAX blumenthal ! i have put it as a lynchpin on where i will fall on the argument depending on the outcome of that spar ( i believe noam represents in my mind the hardened Israeli noamie so him grappling with their point of view will answer soo much for me and answer the ultimate Q; is there hope? because guys like him are the cornerstone of change and liberation )
don't think comparing # of anti semitic tweets to # of anti-arab/gaza quotes by Israeli officials is fair given how many bots and misinfo farms are on that site
@@advance512 matters bc the argument was if AM and others can claim 10 Israeli quotes implies genocide then 10 antisemitic tweets in response to a pro israel post would be equivalent evidence to claim the movement is antisemitic. I don't really agree w AM et al but still an unfair comparison that wont win that argument
@@admperi I think regardless of source, the absolute # of anti-semitic tweets is relevant. It isn't like a person says "ohhh, this is from a bot, better not take the anti-semitic message seriously"
49:47 Have you read “People Love Dead Jews” by Dara Horn? She talks about this phenomenon. So long as the Jews are meek, the world loves us. The minute we assert ourselves, it turns against us. She would be a great guest, btw. Noa Tishby too. 55:01 This is the so f%*king depressing, Noam. However, American Jews have been through multiple ‘distancing’ phases without permanent estrangement. Wholesale sir name anglicizing in the 1920s and 1930s is a good example. And then things swing back. I’m hopeful the movement by donors and alumni against university indoctrination will produce meaningful change toward a more neutral treatment of the history and conflict. Also, you may not be seeing this in your community, but I have seen impromptu meet-ups of Jewish high schoolers here in NC. We may be seeing a new age of self-segregation.
I’m a bit sad Coleman dropped the moral philosophy perspective. Please tell him, any time he wants to talk deontology vs consequentialism in relation to this war, I’m totally down. You don’t have to be a strict Kantian to think deontological ethics is best applied here.
@@joelharvey A.) Not a man. B.) Also made the arguably absurd decision to major in philosophy at a top ten university. Coleman discussed the application of the philosophy of ethics in their previous roundtable. It was cool to hear someone else think about the war in this way. C.) I can be way, way more pompous.
54:47 According to Noam, it's not a genocide if: 1) If you could have killed a whole lot more. 2) If you're at war and the leadership has hostages. 3) If there is a warm and the leaders could surrender. 4) If a conflict can be settled.
It's not a genocide if it isn't. Which it isn't. The claim is ridiculous. Not because of numbers. Not because it is part of a defensive war managed according to the laws of armed conflict. Not because the civilian to militant ratio is 1:4.5 at worst, twice better than what we see in comparable conflicts. It isn't just because there was no intent nor application of intent, and in fact many actions were taken to avoid deaths and many actions not taken could have caused infinitely more deaths.
@@advance512 You have assidously repeated IDF talking points. The truth is that the evidentiary basis for a genocide will be fully established when independent observers can safely enter Gaza and account for all of the IDF's transgressions. When the genocide is established I hope you have the courage to say how wrong you were to dismiss the possibility of a genocide on the basis of "ratios" and the misguided belief that the IDF is the "most moral army in the world."
@@SuperKripke I will have courage to accept it if it is deemed so by the ICJ. Will you have courage to say IT IS NOT genocid3 if it is deemed not a genocid3 by the ICJ?
Idk man. The number of starvation deaths that have occurred so far (while still tragic) are right around the number of annual starvation deaths in the US. It’s hard to run down the narrative of “Israel is starving the Palestinians” with that context… Otherwise, we’d also have to acknowledge that America is starving it’s citizens. I don’t think either are accurate.
@@djon3043 Do you think it might be relevant that the population of the US is roughly 333 million, while the population of the Gaza strip is somewhere around 2 million? Do you think the context of the draconian blockade, which has been called akin to a medieval siege by experts, not allowing in humanitarian aid is relevant? Maybe it's worth noting that the capacity for growing food or catching fish has been deliberately crippled by Israel. Maybe atrocities like the flour massacre, where civilians are targeted for trying to get to the food aid that is let in, should factor into your calculations. Reports from human rights organisations, special rapporteurs, UN observers all saying that Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war could be relevant context. What about the rate of wasting in children in Gaza being called "unprecedented" by observers? Are you really sure the food situation in Gaza is all that comparable to the US?
I’m not saying it’s perfectly comparable. I’m saying it seems unreasonable to suggest that Israel is purposefully trying to starve an entire population (as Finkelstein did) when the percentage of that population that has died from malnutrition is currently sitting at 0.000015%. So acting like Noam should eat his words here seems undeserved. Maybe we will both be wrong, but you and finklestein certainly aren’t right. But to me it seems like more of the same hyperbole. Noam and some of those agencies you listen were saying they were starving the Palestinians before the war even started. When not even a single starvation death was reported and Gaza was sitting on a 30% obesity rate. But they are literally at war with each other and you’re mad that Israel won’t let Hamas (that’s the government so everything goes through them) access its supply lines and trade routes.
@@djon3043 So every expert, every HRO, every observer and special rapporteur is just flat out wrong when they conclude Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. Only UA-cam commentators like you and podcasting ideologues like Noam grasp the truth of the situation. Noam didn't qualify that it had to be every single Palestinian that had to starve to death for it to count, and the fact of the matter is that a non-trivial amount of people have died of starvation while wasting is widespread. You and Noam can try to weasel out of it as much as you want, but you'll be deeply sorry later when the dust settles and the truth can no longer be contained and the hasbara loses its weight.
@@mayonaden Lazy cliche accusations of "hasbara" ad nauseum aside, your suggestion that every international law expert has concluded that Israel is using starvation against civilians as a weapon of war is ridiculous. Have you actually looked into this in any real capacity or are you just repeating talking points? Sieges are legal under international humanitarian law despite what some of the typical talking heads would have you believe. The same rules apply to sieges as they do to each and every act in armed conflict; whether the military advantage gained is proportionate to the expected civilian harm from the point of view of a reasonable commander in the same situation. Nothing more and nothing less. Anyone who has said that that they "know" that Israel has violated international law in this regard is lying to you.
Israel is in no way an "occupier" in Israel. The Arabs are both the interlopers and the occupiers. We Jews are the ONLY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE in the Land of Israel. So withdrawing from Judea the Samaria -which you wrongly refer to as the West Bank - is not an option.
Neither of us knows what "forever" looks like , but we Jews he ave no choice but to live by the sword. And we have no reason to give up our homeland to a barbaric death cult. Would you?
55:47 You should abstain from giving Israel policy advice since you really have no skin in the game. It is so idiotic self-centred, and shameful that Noam even makes these comments! He is already so disconnected from the Israeli reality, he has no idea how ridiculous and privileged his comments are!
He can offer his thoughts. Don't gate keep. I think unilateral disengagement is ridiculous. But a proposal for a path to peace offered by Israel is not, taking control of the process and narrative.
@@joge2468 he does not live in israel never had. No voting right. Does not even consider moving to Israel, not that this would give him the right to tell Israelis how to handle their existence before he even set foot there.. To recap - Absolutely no skin in the game.
You should abstain from giving Israel policy advice since you gave no skin in the game. In other words, you support the continued existence Israel as long as the Diaspora Jews aren't discomforted. How cowardly and decadent that is.
55:47 So true! It is so idiotic self-centred, and shameful that Noam even makes these comments! He is already so disconnected from the Israeli reality, he has no idea how ridiculous and privileged his comments are!
have a little faith in the Israeli public. not the leaders. The public. look at what happened with the the Judicial reform protest, it was/is a remarkable impressive phenomenon, we will bring Bibi down. When Israelis get pushed to corners they unite and that sense of community is a force. Don't be so quick to write Israel off when it comes to the future of your kids, we have been known to make great comebacks.
Bibi was elected again and again by the Israeli public. It seems that you do not have faith in the Israeli public, nor do you understand the basic concept of democracy.
@@michelelevi3904 True but how? by remaining in endless terms and manipulating many systems and many people. Today, during this war the popular opinion 80% of the public does not support Bibi. but we are stuck. I would go further and say that given the way the gov/ elections are here he always holds an unfair advantage. people see us as a western nation, I always held we are somewhere btwn western and third world.
Coleman’s argument that a military can basically commit infinite war crimes forever as long as they are the ‘good guys’ is really silly. Doesn’t the fact that they are committing war crimes have any bearing on how ‘good’ they really are? Also the argument against Meersheimer’s point about how the Soviets fought was basically an argument from incredulity. Whether or not the Soviets were terrible in 1939 or committed rapes AFTER winning the war or didn’t have long range bombers , it doesn’t change the fact that they showed the feasibility of defeating the German army in the field without targeting civilians.
The German army started by sending millions of their soldiers deep into Russia. They obviously didn’t bring their civilians with them on the invasion. So when the Soviets enventually started to push the Germans back after Stalingrad they did so without killing German civilians because they were fighting in RUSSIA. There were no German civilians in Russia.Once however the Soviets started invading Germany proper there was mass killings and rapes of civilians as is well documented.
And you might want to compare losses too before you draw the conclusion about what the Soviets showed their allies. UK losses: 384,000 soldiers US losses: 417,000 soldiers Soviet losses: estimated 8,800,000 - 10,700,000 So: If you fight a war to protect your own people, which force chose the most successful strategy?
the they ask why im pro israel. look at this intelligent well thought out discussion. ever seen anything even remotely like this on the pro balestine side? this is why they have been losing for 75 years and will keep losing
When I see comments like this I wonder if there's a human behind it or a bot, because I would hate to be the person behind a country that in the last months has shed any semblance of humanity and is only known for being a Goliath that cares nothing for anything that has the misfortune of crossing its path, whether it be journalists, doctors, aid workers, men, women, children, it's own citizens...
@@Gvjhfxvbn 75 years? Gaza was occupied by Egypt until 1967, and hasn’t been occupied by Israel since 2005. “Concentration camp,” seriously? You watched this video, and still think Gaza is a concentration camp? This is exactly what the OP is referring to - an inability to recognize or make a logical argument by supporters of the Palestinians.
@@Gvjhfxvbn Why does their "concentration camp" have a shopping mall in it? Don't try to lecture people about what "intelligence" is when you deliberately use words wrong on purpose out of ignorance.
Israel has unilaterally withdrawn from Gaza in 2005. No one in the internationally community cared, and they still called us occupiers in Gaza. In the end we got Oct. 7. We will never repeat that mistake again in the west Bank. Especially not to assuage some NJ jew worries that his children social circle will not include antisemites.
I like the impression, but the way you dismiss him, Mate, and Blumenthal shows you are all not on the same level. Why not address the accusations of Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian women? What they said is that in war usually rape happens but there has not been any proof of any yet and the assertions of gang rapes in the days after the Hamas attack fueled support for the invasion. You all seem very desperate to prove these guys wrong because if Israel is guilty than your identity and morality of Jews and Israelis is shattered. What about the pro-zionists that engaged in violence with peaceful protests? I've watched a handful of these podcasts and my feeling that there is a desperation for Israel not to be wrong or carry more of the blame. I see the same with many of my family members and jewish friends.
You’re forming this on a comedic, fast conversation lasting less than 2 hours where lots of things are discussed. The UN disagrees with you about there being no evidence of rapes of Israelis on 10/7
The fact is that the civilian deaths could had been much higher if USA did a ground invasion of Japan. The Tokyo bombings killed over 100k. Have the humility to shut up
46:37 it’s when Noam admits something like this that it’s clear he knows exactly what he’s doing and he is just playing a tribal team sport and will NEVER admit what Israel is doing is wrong. “…DESPITE THE WISHES OF THE ZIONISTS….” Just gross.
Moynihan & Hughs have little in-depth knowledge of the history of the subject. This show doesn’t like to have people on who are scholarly on the subject
oh, but Moynihan is particular actually DOES. Or are you suggesting we should swallow Rashid Khalidi's "scholarship" (replete with the "settler colonialism" thinking so popular in academia) whole line and sinker??
if you're a radical leftist perhaps. He doesn't easily tolerate complete bullshit. But he's witty/funny, doesn't take himself too seriously, but he's exceptionally well read with a history background
It’s baffling to see Hughes anointed as a so called public intellectual. Such a low bar these days. His views on Gaza are idiotic; he was one of the first to put the OECD numbers argument forward. He’s backed away from that line of argument rather sharpish!
His OECD argument is a good point, as a response to assertions that Gaza is essentially the most deprived place on earth. Like all the other hypocrisy when it comes to Israel, it illustrates that nobody gives a fuck about all the countries that score lower. This debate is clearly not about Palestinians’ standard of living. Nor is it about oppression or freedom from tyranny. If it was, anti-Israel protesters would be condemning Hamas, Iran, the situation in Darfur, etc.
Moynihan mocking Norm Finkelstein isn’t funny! Finkelstein knows more about the subject than you do. Seems you’ve chosen a side you want to be popular with.
hmmm Sam doesn't step outside of his echo chamber too much lately. I think the last time was PBD podcast, he didn't fare to well. I think Sam likes to stay safe
I LOVED this podcast. Might be in my top three so far this year. Smart, funny, non-ideological. Really great. Make it a regular thing and get a fourth. Nellie Bowles would be my pick.
moynihan's finkelstein impression never fails to crack me tf up hahahahah
Good Finkelstein impression
Hard to do impressions of Fink. Fink possesses a voice that sounds approximately like two seals fornicating while dragging their claws against a chalkboard.
norman finkelstein looks and sounds like you gave him a bowl of soup, but no spoon
Moynihan's Finkelstein impressions are excellent.
A stickler to the facts!
A visit from Mr. Moynarelli and Mr. Hugarelli always makes for a good episode. Thanks!
Great discussion. Coleman’s clarity is insightful and inspiring
It´s amazing how Coleman keeps up with this much older and more experienced people.
I read The Tragedy of Great Power Politics in college. To summarize, John Mearsheimer played Risk as a kid and thought it was a true story. That was him at his most morally coherent.
Mearsheimer's comments about the Soviets war against the Wehrmacht are so OFF the mark. You also had NKVD and commissars terrorizing their own troops.
I've never really agreed with him, but I've listened to him a lot because everyone insists he's an expert. But good grief, that was one of the most wrong things I've ever heard in my life. He's a charlatan.
Coleman and Michael should be regular guests. Great discussion, guys.
we need more Finkelstein impressions
Finkelstein may have played by the rules at your place, but he certainly didn't with the Lex Friedman/Benny Morris/ Destiny discussion. I have a hard time even thinking he's actually intelligent since watching that desaster.
He got the wrong memo, thought he was on Jerry Springer
That finkelstein impression 😂😂😂
I actually quite respect Finkelstein, though we have some stark disagreement. I think most people would have to agree, that impression is spot on, and funny as hell.
18:19 lolol! coleman's finklestein caught me off guard by how good it is! he even has the mannerisms down! 😂😂
Coleman really went there in the table read 😂
Holy shit that is a great finklestein
Damn that Finkelstein impression is uncanny
Noam: your starry-eyed view of Norman Finkelstein reminds me of women who pine after men who hate them.
Dump him. He's awful.
Maybe you're right, lol
17:12 How come this part is cut when you suggest Aaron Mate harbours animosity for Israelis and....?
The episode was cut down by about 30 minutes
Great podcast... I take issue with the idea that Mate or Blumenthal deserve any credit for whatever you perceive they got right. I wouldn't give them credit journalistically any more than I would credit a rain dancer for dancing before a hurricane happened to hit lul.
Not supporting Genocide and occupation
@@judahjayson684 My Issue is the explicit Assad support, denying that he used sarin gas on his own people in Syria during the civil war. Also there is no genocide bud haha.
@@chrisstultz8143 killing more than +45,000 and nearly 100,000 people mutilated and with missing legs and arms and also more than 2 million in starvation and famine.
Great show! Really enjoyed this group of people. This has become one of my favorite podcasts. I always learn. And Moynihan’s impersonation was hilarious!
As a Jew I have a connection now with Israel more than ever.
You picked a very unfortunate time to establish it - the stare of affairs is very dire, and not only because of Hamas/ Iran/ woke etc
@@jennybravo7019 I feel very fortunate for the connection.
Thank you Noam.
Your genocide take about the option to surrender was brilliant. Doubt comedians get many compliments of brilliance so here you go
platform everyone....but you have to make sure you have the ability to fact check them in real time
guys like finklestein and khalidi are allowed to spew nonsense on multiple platforms
I fuckin love you guys, cheers.
Damn, Moynihan's impression is SPOT ON
The question whether the US/Biden was right to pressure and criticize Israel is misguided ... just like in Israel, these decisions also respond to, and reflect (to a certain extent, of course), public opinion
It isn't a matter of accuracy or some sort of objective moral standing
1:25:20 that's what I really agree with Coleman on. These general obvious things that people don't really debate, in this case the apparent types of society.
I wish we could get destiny vs coleman on some topic.
Yay you have Coleman 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Is Noam talking about getting a hangover from Fernet Branca? It's 39% alcohol, about what most liquors are. Also, it's very strongly flavored. I put half an ounce of it in an Old Fashioned and rarely drink it by itself.
I always find it so odd when Mearsheimer starts talking about war crimes. The theory of "Offensive Realism" is the most brutal form of structural realism. Right now, he's sounding like a Liberal Internationalist.
The reading of Finkelstein was hilarious, especially when Coleman read about himself 😂
There were videos of Hamas taking concubines, referring to women as concubines.
Ummm BULLSHIT! Just like the beheaded babies, baby in the oven, baby cut out of the womb, seriously COME ONNN you can’t just use the actual atrocities that Hamas committed that day? You really got to make this ridiculous nonsense up?
I wonder why that is? Could it be so you can continue to justify the massive atrocites Israel is CURRENTLY committing in Gaza today?
Ok this needs to happen more often. Especially the poking at Norm part. Was he "playing by the rules" with Destiny? Pretty sure he thought he was on the Jerry Springer show.
the concepts of war crimes and international law are all great until you get to the point of extremis where any kind of liberal order surviving is on the line. At that point liberalism is just a hand tied behind the back of the side fighting for it.
Sovits did have long range bombers, but didn’t use them like we did because 1) we were already doing it 2) their Air Force was focused on supporting ground operations ie flying artillery
Who is the blond woman? I usually try to support people on podcasts I listen to by following them on Twitter and I normally don't listen to this one but found it because Moynihan. I obviously already knew Michael, Coleman, Dan, and Noam.
She’s their producer. They let her speak occasionally, but mostly they tell her to shut up.
Also, re: PhD students... We get a stipend funded by the university which is funded by... the endowment. So investments in companies or any asset related to Israel is actually what pays our salaries, the professors, and the staff
1:22:29 This is an aspect of the Israel’s tactics in Gaza that is *never* discussed. So, you pose the question: “If not like this, how should Israel be prosecuting this war?” You get some mumbo jumbo about special forces going in, more ground troops, etc. and the conversation stops. I’ve yet to hear anybody ask why Israel should risk its troops in a ground war. Why would any country risk its soldiers if bombing from the air is far safer?
You sound like you have a malformed moral outlook on life. A basic exercise would be to put yourself in the shoes of the children who have been murdered by the IDF and whether they bear responsibility for what happened on Oct 7. Now multiply that by 19,000.
@@SuperKripke When I put myself in the position of those kids’ parents, I am overcome with rage at Hamas for starting this war, failing to build bomb shelters for me and my family, investing my aid money in tunnels and weapons, hiding behind and under my people, and generally wasting the last 20 years pursuing genocide and ethnic cleansing with zero chance of success.
@@SuperKripkethey were all alive before Oct 7, before Hamas decided to provoke a war and putting all from Gaza at risk. WTF did Hamas think would happen after the Oct 7 attack? Was Israel supposed to not respond? Blame Hamas for Israel relentless assault. Hamas wanted to go to war and they got more than they bargained for, and are responsible for the Innocent lives lost
@@Rikanlynx86 When your worldview concludes with the proposition that genocide is necessary then it may be time to revisit your worldview.
@@SuperKripke That is correct and something all Hamas apologists should be considering.
Fernet is the category. Which Fernet? Branca, Averna, Montenegro?
Fernet is a type of Amaro.
Branca
@@comedycellarclips Branca was mother’s milk for many of us in the restaurant industry in SF buts it’s a bit rough. Try Montenegro on the rocks (can add a lemon or orange slice). A bit sweeter but still herbaceous and great to sip on. Also, if you can find it, try Vergano Americano (rocks, splash of soda and an orange wheel/slice). It is what Campari wishes it was. Cheers!
@blazinbutter can't find your comment anymore, but yours is a position I can respect for the most part.
1:02:00 Noam is so uninformed about the Israeli public opinion it is embarrassing
True. A situation in the West Bank similar to what was in Gaza for 20 years would never be accepted by Israelis.
Coleman can be my Shabbas Goy anytime he is in Canada.
24:21 you have to study your opponents tactics if you want to outsmart them.
1:00:30 It is unfortunate that Coleman is saying the most sensible words after Noam's completely nonsensical comments!
17:00 would love to hear about the fact check regarding sahar tartak's case, i was pretty sure it was confirmed that she was hit in her eye with a flag pole, so is that the misinfo?
It was a lie. There was no pole, she wasn't stabbed and in the video she hilariously reacted by saying "Ow you just stabbed me in the eye!"
@@SuperKripke source?
The Fifith column podcast really needs to get on UA-cam, I'm really enjoying Michael Moynihan lately. Love how he handle Briahnna Joy Gray at the Dissidence debate the other day
Do you have a link to this? I've been looking for it
@@RandyMarshFrmSP no link a commentor on Brianna twitter feed. After she referred to eli and michael as Islamicphobics racist who know nothing but how to fight ... She doesn't mention then by name
@@RandyMarshFrmSP just went to find it . The tweet is still there but the video has been taken down
BJG broke my heart.
He looked like an idiot lol
Dan seems to be the more mature, reasonable person in this group of people talking mostly nonsense.
Secular Jewish life recognized that it’s capacity to survive in the long run required a state and a national culture. Israel solved the problem of assimilation. And of course the religious Jew (not a Jew who thinks saying words makes a child who is not committing to practice Judaism Jewish) does not have this problem. It is a bizarre thing to listen to a man who has intermarried discuss Israel’s need to give up security for the sake of an extremely assimilated and acculturated Jewish public. Again, if Noam was remotely educated about Judaism, he would know that many Jews died in Egypt in the Rabbinic telling - Jews who choose to leave the nation and remain in Egyptian society. It is not an easy thing to remain a Jew but it is not the responsibility of the Israeli public (which is largely traditional/ religious in sentiment) to facilitate a relatively hollow and empty ‘Jewish’ identity that amounts to little more than solidarity and Seinfeld.
I imagine US support for Israel has at least in part relied on all those secular, extremely assimilated Jewish public you speak of. If Israel and/or Israelis really want to show how little they care, not accepting aid from the US would be quite the message.
And how many Japanese would of died in an invasion? How many Gazans will die in future wars if Hamas is allowed to reconstitute?
I hear they estimated an invasion of Japan at 10 million
They say the same thing about every war. The Japanese would've surrendered, (Germany had already surrendered) Truman wanted to drop the bombs as a display of force to the Soviets.
@@MY-hc5fb Were you thumbing through Truman’s diary as you typed this? What possesses you of such arrogant confidence?
Like Noam said it took not one but 2 bombs. Whatever you think you know about Truman’s motives I’m sure who have an even foggier notion of Imperial Japan.
@@MY-hc5fbwhat does "the Japanese would have surrendered" mean? Surrendered when or how? After a fall on invasion they would have? Is your argument that the bombs solely got dropped as a dispaly of force to the Soviets?
@@boatbutchlet me change my argument. The US dropped the bombs to end the war, and as a display of force to the Russians, and to test them. The primary motive was to end the war, but the secondary motives are why they used the bombs specifically and not discuss surrender terms.
1. Germany already surrendered. Japanese defeat was all but a matter of time.
2. The Soviet-Japanese neutrality pact had ended. Which means soviets were going to
Enter the war. (They actually did conquer some surrounding islands.) You can figure out why the US didn't want that.
3. The US used two different types of atomic weapons, both targeted at cities.
4. The U.S. called for “unconditional surrender”, or “swift and utter destruction”. They knew the Japanese would not accept an “unconditional” surrender.
5. Advisors to Truman asked him to change terms of surrender, and allow for the Japanese to keep their Emperor. They felt this was the main reason Japan did not surrender.
5. The US dropped the two different atomic bombs, one plutonium one uranium, just a few days apart. They didn't give sufficient time for a surrender to take place.
Probably missing a couple but those are a few of the big arguments.
No, the conflict can’t be settled with such an imbalance of power!
Behind the scenes, the more powerful does not want a settlement of the conflict.
so in ww2, it was unfair that the allies had more power than germany and japan and so that conflict should never have ended?
El primero 🎉
31:21 those kids are taking on the views of their mentors.
Orthodox jews are the biggest and fastest growing group, who vehemently support Israel, so I think there's a fourth outcome that you haven't mentioned
Another thing (I know I keep going on, but some of the things said in this podcast really upset me) how can the club owner compare Afrikaners to Jewish people? When were the Afrikaners ever slaughtered in a Holocaust by south African black people? Where are all the pogroms against Afrikaners that drove them to settle in South Africa? There is zero comparison between Afrikaners and Israeli Jews, so if American Jews don't have the backbone to stand up proudly and defend their heritage, then THAT'S what they should be ashamed of - not the actions of the Israeli government.
I don't think you understood the point.
What makes you say that the girl being stabbed in the eye isn't true?
You didn't debunk anything. I think it was pretty obvious what the guy with the flag was trying to do. Most people holding a stick don't hold it horizontally when walking in crowded spaces.
You could be right, but it sure doesn't look like it. forward.com/opinion/608230/jews-have-to-stop-believing-conspiracy-theories-yale-columbia-antisemitism/
yeah I think the samething you know how easy it is to go a quick little jab, no video could every truely pick it up, I too saw the video and yeah it doesn't look like much but it doesn't take much at all
@@comedycellarclips The article seems to allude to an entirely different video than the one shown on Breaking Points and TYT.
I agree with you that there is ambiguity there. I just don't agree that the video shows much. As such, it's a really poorly taken video that doesn't show much of anything.
That being said, yes, I don't like the anti semitic charge either. It doesn't seem to be very effective.
Here are a few people I'd love for you to get on: Candace Owens, Jonathan Greenblatt, Dr Avi Bitterman
44:44 If you're looking for that deeply intellectual part of the conversation where they pose the question of whether anti-Zionist protesters are unattractive.
Every protester is an ugly annoying dork.
i am salivating for a convo between Noam and ILLAN PAPPE or Noam and MAX blumenthal ! i have put it as a lynchpin on where i will fall on the argument depending on the outcome of that spar ( i believe noam represents in my mind the hardened Israeli noamie so him grappling with their point of view will answer soo much for me and answer the ultimate Q; is there hope? because guys like him are the cornerstone of change and liberation )
Why would he talk with a Russian neo-n4zgul like Max Blumenthal?
Are people you dont agree with “Neo-Nazi” Max is a journalist.
@@najmagulled6540 Grayzone is not a news website, it is pure propaganda and hate.
You guys talk too much. Let your guests talk more.
Couldn’t possibly agree more
Its something MANY podcast hosts are guilty of and its a pretty strong turn off from a pod.
don't think comparing # of anti semitic tweets to # of anti-arab/gaza quotes by Israeli officials is fair given how many bots and misinfo farms are on that site
Why does it matter?
@@advance512 matters bc the argument was if AM and others can claim 10 Israeli quotes implies genocide then 10 antisemitic tweets in response to a pro israel post would be equivalent evidence to claim the movement is antisemitic. I don't really agree w AM et al but still an unfair comparison that wont win that argument
@@admperi I think regardless of source, the absolute # of anti-semitic tweets is relevant. It isn't like a person says "ohhh, this is from a bot, better not take the anti-semitic message seriously"
49:47 Have you read “People Love Dead Jews” by Dara Horn? She talks about this phenomenon. So long as the Jews are meek, the world loves us. The minute we assert ourselves, it turns against us. She would be a great guest, btw. Noa Tishby too.
55:01 This is the so f%*king depressing, Noam. However, American Jews have been through multiple ‘distancing’ phases without permanent estrangement. Wholesale sir name anglicizing in the 1920s and 1930s is a good example. And then things swing back. I’m hopeful the movement by donors and alumni against university indoctrination will produce meaningful change toward a more neutral treatment of the history and conflict. Also, you may not be seeing this in your community, but I have seen impromptu meet-ups of Jewish high schoolers here in NC. We may be seeing a new age of self-segregation.
I’m a bit sad Coleman dropped the moral philosophy perspective. Please tell him, any time he wants to talk deontology vs consequentialism in relation to this war, I’m totally down. You don’t have to be a strict Kantian to think deontological ethics is best applied here.
And Who are you...?
This is the most obnoxious way to say 'you've come to a different conclusion than me'
10 out of 10 for pomposity man.
@@joelharvey A.) Not a man. B.) Also made the arguably absurd decision to major in philosophy at a top ten university. Coleman discussed the application of the philosophy of ethics in their previous roundtable. It was cool to hear someone else think about the war in this way. C.) I can be way, way more pompous.
@@joge2468 My apologies, 11 out of 10.
18:13
54:47 According to Noam, it's not a genocide if:
1) If you could have killed a whole lot more.
2) If you're at war and the leadership has hostages.
3) If there is a warm and the leaders could surrender.
4) If a conflict can be settled.
It's not a genocide if it isn't. Which it isn't. The claim is ridiculous. Not because of numbers. Not because it is part of a defensive war managed according to the laws of armed conflict. Not because the civilian to militant ratio is 1:4.5 at worst, twice better than what we see in comparable conflicts. It isn't just because there was no intent nor application of intent, and in fact many actions were taken to avoid deaths and many actions not taken could have caused infinitely more deaths.
@@advance512 You have assidously repeated IDF talking points. The truth is that the evidentiary basis for a genocide will be fully established when independent observers can safely enter Gaza and account for all of the IDF's transgressions. When the genocide is established I hope you have the courage to say how wrong you were to dismiss the possibility of a genocide on the basis of "ratios" and the misguided belief that the IDF is the "most moral army in the world."
@@SuperKripke I will have courage to accept it if it is deemed so by the ICJ. Will you have courage to say IT IS NOT genocid3 if it is deemed not a genocid3 by the ICJ?
@@advance512 Yes.
@@SuperKripke well great, we are both big boys then. :)
I'm a fan of Finkelstein but that impression was so fucking funny.
Noam, when are you going to admit you were wrong, and Finkelstein was right, on the question of Israel starving the Palestinians?
Idk man. The number of starvation deaths that have occurred so far (while still tragic) are right around the number of annual starvation deaths in the US.
It’s hard to run down the narrative of “Israel is starving the Palestinians” with that context…
Otherwise, we’d also have to acknowledge that America is starving it’s citizens.
I don’t think either are accurate.
@@djon3043
Do you think it might be relevant that the population of the US is roughly 333 million, while the population of the Gaza strip is somewhere around 2 million? Do you think the context of the draconian blockade, which has been called akin to a medieval siege by experts, not allowing in humanitarian aid is relevant? Maybe it's worth noting that the capacity for growing food or catching fish has been deliberately crippled by Israel. Maybe atrocities like the flour massacre, where civilians are targeted for trying to get to the food aid that is let in, should factor into your calculations. Reports from human rights organisations, special rapporteurs, UN observers all saying that Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war could be relevant context. What about the rate of wasting in children in Gaza being called "unprecedented" by observers? Are you really sure the food situation in Gaza is all that comparable to the US?
I’m not saying it’s perfectly comparable. I’m saying it seems unreasonable to suggest that Israel is purposefully trying to starve an entire population (as Finkelstein did) when the percentage of that population that has died from malnutrition is currently sitting at 0.000015%.
So acting like Noam should eat his words here seems undeserved.
Maybe we will both be wrong, but you and finklestein certainly aren’t right.
But to me it seems like more of the same hyperbole. Noam and some of those agencies you listen were saying they were starving the Palestinians before the war even started. When not even a single starvation death was reported and Gaza was sitting on a 30% obesity rate.
But they are literally at war with each other and you’re mad that Israel won’t let Hamas (that’s the government so everything goes through them) access its supply lines and trade routes.
@@djon3043
So every expert, every HRO, every observer and special rapporteur is just flat out wrong when they conclude Israel is using starvation as a weapon of war. Only UA-cam commentators like you and podcasting ideologues like Noam grasp the truth of the situation. Noam didn't qualify that it had to be every single Palestinian that had to starve to death for it to count, and the fact of the matter is that a non-trivial amount of people have died of starvation while wasting is widespread. You and Noam can try to weasel out of it as much as you want, but you'll be deeply sorry later when the dust settles and the truth can no longer be contained and the hasbara loses its weight.
@@mayonaden Lazy cliche accusations of "hasbara" ad nauseum aside, your suggestion that every international law expert has concluded that Israel is using starvation against civilians as a weapon of war is ridiculous. Have you actually looked into this in any real capacity or are you just repeating talking points? Sieges are legal under international humanitarian law despite what some of the typical talking heads would have you believe. The same rules apply to sieges as they do to each and every act in armed conflict; whether the military advantage gained is proportionate to the expected civilian harm from the point of view of a reasonable commander in the same situation. Nothing more and nothing less. Anyone who has said that that they "know" that Israel has violated international law in this regard is lying to you.
Israel is in no way an "occupier" in Israel. The Arabs are both the interlopers and the occupiers. We Jews are the ONLY INDIGENOUS PEOPLE in the Land of Israel.
So withdrawing from Judea the Samaria -which you wrongly refer to as the West Bank - is not an option.
But what about the Caananites, maaaaaaaaaaaan?
2 state solution is the worst option, except for all the alternatives. Surely you don't still think the current arrangement can go on forever!?
Neither of us knows what "forever" looks like , but we Jews he ave no choice but to live by the sword. And we have no reason to give up our homeland to a barbaric death cult. Would you?
The Canaanites are an extinct people. End of story.
Is it me or are they completely obsessed with Finklestein..
Don’t assume that college students THINK they know everything. Go speak with them. I bet you’ll learn something too and they from you.
they know nothing and i wont learn a thing from them
@@lesweizman388 it doesn’t look good when you admit you won’t learn. 😉🌹✌🏼🫡♥️
iranian jewish girl at ucla was knocked out. she was peaceful with her mom.
55:47 You should abstain from giving Israel policy advice since you really have no skin in the game. It is so idiotic self-centred, and shameful that Noam even makes these comments! He is already so disconnected from the Israeli reality, he has no idea how ridiculous and privileged his comments are!
He can offer his thoughts. Don't gate keep.
I think unilateral disengagement is ridiculous. But a proposal for a path to peace offered by Israel is not, taking control of the process and narrative.
You are aware his parents are Israeli, yeah? He might have a little skin in the game.
@@joge2468 he does not live in israel never had. No voting right. Does not even consider moving to Israel, not that this would give him the right to tell Israelis how to handle their existence before he even set foot there.. To recap - Absolutely no skin in the game.
@@michelelevi3904 He won't make the choice but he can offer his thoughts. And by the way, Israelis can vote regardless of where they live.
@@advance512 That is simply not true. Even if he were Israeli - which he is not. He is an American.
when people like coleman hughes, say "it's complicated", their goal isn't to explain the situation, it's to end the conversation.
I just downloaded the transcript of this episode and Ctrl+F'd for "complicated" and didn't find it.
You should abstain from giving Israel policy advice since you gave no skin in the game. In other words, you support the continued existence Israel as long as the Diaspora Jews aren't discomforted. How cowardly and decadent that is.
55:47 So true! It is so idiotic self-centred, and shameful that Noam even makes these comments! He is already so disconnected from the Israeli reality, he has no idea how ridiculous and privileged his comments are!
If Israel wants to hear nothing from Americans they should probably stop accepting US aid of any kind.
have a little faith in the Israeli public. not the leaders. The public. look at what happened with the the Judicial reform protest, it was/is a remarkable impressive phenomenon, we will bring Bibi down. When Israelis get pushed to corners they unite and that sense of community is a force. Don't be so quick to write Israel off when it comes to the future of your kids, we have been known to make great comebacks.
Bibi was elected again and again by the Israeli public. It seems that you do not have faith in the Israeli public, nor do you understand the basic concept of democracy.
The Israeli public wants to take Hamas down. You are confused.
@@michelelevi3904 True but how? by remaining in endless terms and manipulating many systems and many people. Today, during this war the popular opinion 80% of the public does not support Bibi. but we are stuck. I would go further and say that given the way the gov/ elections are here he always holds an unfair advantage. people see us as a western nation, I always held we are somewhere btwn western and third world.
Coleman’s argument that a military can basically commit infinite war crimes forever as long as they are the ‘good guys’ is really silly. Doesn’t the fact that they are committing war crimes have any bearing on how ‘good’ they really are? Also the argument against Meersheimer’s point about how the Soviets fought was basically an argument from incredulity. Whether or not the Soviets were terrible in 1939 or committed rapes AFTER winning the war or didn’t have long range bombers , it doesn’t change the fact that they showed the feasibility of defeating the German army in the field without targeting civilians.
The German army started by sending millions of their soldiers deep into Russia. They obviously didn’t bring their civilians with them on the invasion. So when the Soviets enventually started to push the Germans back after Stalingrad they did so without killing German civilians because they were fighting in RUSSIA. There were no German civilians in Russia.Once however the Soviets started invading Germany proper there was mass killings and rapes of civilians as is well documented.
And you might want to compare losses too before you draw the conclusion about what the Soviets showed their allies.
UK losses: 384,000 soldiers
US losses: 417,000 soldiers
Soviet losses: estimated 8,800,000 - 10,700,000
So: If you fight a war to protect your own people, which force chose the most successful strategy?
the they ask why im pro israel. look at this intelligent well thought out discussion. ever seen anything even remotely like this on the pro balestine side? this is why they have been losing for 75 years and will keep losing
When I see comments like this I wonder if there's a human behind it or a bot, because I would hate to be the person behind a country that in the last months has shed any semblance of humanity and is only known for being a Goliath that cares nothing for anything that has the misfortune of crossing its path, whether it be journalists, doctors, aid workers, men, women, children, it's own citizens...
@@Gvjhfxvbn 75 years? Gaza was occupied by Egypt until 1967, and hasn’t been occupied by Israel since 2005. “Concentration camp,” seriously? You watched this video, and still think Gaza is a concentration camp? This is exactly what the OP is referring to - an inability to recognize or make a logical argument by supporters of the Palestinians.
Agree.
@@Gvjhfxvbn Why does their "concentration camp" have a shopping mall in it?
Don't try to lecture people about what "intelligence" is when you deliberately use words wrong on purpose out of ignorance.
@@musungutuloko This
Israel has unilaterally withdrawn from Gaza in 2005. No one in the internationally community cared, and they still called us occupiers in Gaza. In the end we got Oct. 7.
We will never repeat that mistake again in the west Bank. Especially not to assuage some NJ jew worries that his children social circle will not include antisemites.
I like the impression, but the way you dismiss him, Mate, and Blumenthal shows you are all not on the same level. Why not address the accusations of Israeli soldiers raping Palestinian women? What they said is that in war usually rape happens but there has not been any proof of any yet and the assertions of gang rapes in the days after the Hamas attack fueled support for the invasion. You all seem very desperate to prove these guys wrong because if Israel is guilty than your identity and morality of Jews and Israelis is shattered. What about the pro-zionists that engaged in violence with peaceful protests? I've watched a handful of these podcasts and my feeling that there is a desperation for Israel not to be wrong or carry more of the blame. I see the same with many of my family members and jewish friends.
You’re forming this on a comedic, fast conversation lasting less than 2 hours where lots of things are discussed. The UN disagrees with you about there being no evidence of rapes of Israelis on 10/7
1:23:04 the fact the US dropped a second bomb tells you all you need to know!
That Japan still hadnt surrendered you mean?
there was no response to first. Are you familiar with what happened to Japanese military and civilians at Saipan? on Okinawa?
The fact is that the civilian deaths could had been much higher if USA did a ground invasion of Japan. The Tokyo bombings killed over 100k. Have the humility to shut up
46:37 it’s when Noam admits something like this that it’s clear he knows exactly what he’s doing and he is just playing a tribal team sport and will NEVER admit what Israel is doing is wrong.
“…DESPITE THE WISHES OF THE ZIONISTS….”
Just gross.
What a joke !!! You guys trying to mock Pr. Norman Finkelstein !
A guy who should be mocked into oblivion, yea 😊
Didn't Norm try to deport his neighbours because they made to much noise? 🤣
Pro-genocide circle has formed once again. Question: isn’t that the same guy that said Israel wouldn’t starve Gazans?
Moynihan & Hughs have little in-depth knowledge of the history of the subject. This show doesn’t like to have people on who are scholarly on the subject
oh, but Moynihan is particular actually DOES. Or are you suggesting we should swallow Rashid Khalidi's "scholarship" (replete with the "settler colonialism" thinking so popular in academia) whole line and sinker??
Moynihan, highly unlikable guy.
No, rather a guy who doesnt care about likes
if you're a radical leftist perhaps. He doesn't easily tolerate complete bullshit. But he's witty/funny, doesn't take himself too seriously, but he's exceptionally well read with a history background
It’s baffling to see Hughes anointed as a so called public intellectual. Such a low bar these days. His views on Gaza are idiotic; he was one of the first to put the OECD numbers argument forward. He’s backed away from that line of argument rather sharpish!
His OECD argument is a good point, as a response to assertions that Gaza is essentially the most deprived place on earth. Like all the other hypocrisy when it comes to Israel, it illustrates that nobody gives a fuck about all the countries that score lower. This debate is clearly not about Palestinians’ standard of living. Nor is it about oppression or freedom from tyranny. If it was, anti-Israel protesters would be condemning Hamas, Iran, the situation in Darfur, etc.
16:55 Ugh Moynihan is so cringe…. “I think I MIGHT have CASUALLY repeated that… I later realized, I mean later meaning TODAY….”
You don’t say….
Moynihan mocking Norm Finkelstein isn’t funny! Finkelstein knows more about the subject than you do.
Seems you’ve chosen a side you want to be popular with.
finkledork doesnt know squat
the only reason you think he does, is because you know less than nothing and just hate israel and dream of being a dhimmi
This is the fundamental problem with wokesters: no sense of humor. His impression was spot-on and funny as f%#k.
Really you guys should have the @mayorityreport
hmmm Sam doesn't step outside of his echo chamber too much lately. I think the last time was PBD podcast, he didn't fare to well. I think Sam likes to stay safe