Are cheap Beryllium tweeters any good?
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- Опубліковано 19 січ 2024
- In this video I will be measuring some different tweeters. Amongst them beryllium tweeters from China. You can find the link to the tweeters here:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3224553048...
Thanks Frank for the tweeters!
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More testing, more experiments, more fun! - Авто та транспорт
Link to the Chinese beryllium tweeters:
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322455304810?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Xql69Hl1Rry&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=GXzeVv53SQ6&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Are the as good as beryllium tweeter from some brand?
Why the scepticism? Named brand beryllium tweeters are $400 because there are distributers and retailers who take their 100% profit margins. These Chinese manufacturers are taking may be 10%. If it measures like beryllium then it's a great deal!
I know from someone who built series of midwoofers and some very expensive long throw OEM 6.5" in one of the Guangdong shops, which makes a lot of speakers and drivers for many manufacturers you see in audio stores. For the cheap, average quality stuff that is made I thousands, it cost around $15-20 for 100dol driver. When you move to very expensive designs with high quality control of materials used, extra machining required and made in smaller series the cost can be over $200, like for the OEM 6,5" with underhanged voice coil motor I mentioned. In this driver every piece was of the assembly was custom, with big slug of Neodymium being around half of the driver's cost. So depending on design, materials, total quality control the price goes up. If someone knows people who can make some domes out pure Be foil cheaply, I would like to know, so can I can contact my guy and maybe make some Be tweeter.
Pure beryllium is extremely difficult and expensive to work with. It is also an extremely dangerous toxic material to work with. This is an important part of why they are not commonly used and are expensive when they are. It is used because of its crystalline properties of stiffness to weight and is therefore used often in professional applications. I would be very very skeptical because if they begin to degrade at all they because a significant health hazard and I wouldn’t willing to have it in my home at all.
Obviously you have never worked in the audio industry in particular Manufacturing and one who has over 25 years of dealing with the Chinese Manufacturing I can tell you they love to do two things, first is to lie to you and second rip off everyone. so the question here for me is is it really beryllium...
Yeah, right.... I've seen enough Chinese "beryllium" (wink wink, nudge nudge) tweeters to know they can be coated/anodised aluminium or even brass. There is only one company that has a patent for rolling and forming beryllium domes. Before that we had evaporated diaphragms which were not as nice. There is beryllium and there is "beryllium". Even with the best examples the breakup starts below 30k here so it doesn't compare to the stuff we're used to, that hits 40khz.
The idea that Chinese for some reason are satisfied with 10% profit is delusional. They make their savings in quality control, workers rights, manufacturing efficiency and technology, but above all by not caring about longevity. Recently there was a scandal because one Chinese company claimed that their earphone driver has some coating, but the coating was so thin, it was impossible to prove it had any effect whatsoever. In fact there wasn't even proof that the coating was even applied. Longevity is also an issue with this manufacturer. When these budget makers claim they do the same but for less, they simply do something less valuable but manage to hide it. This applies to all low cost products, not just from China. USAliens are just as willing to scam you out of you money. It's just a matter of laws that force the manufacturer to play fair. They are absent.
Beryllium is produced in China, US, and Kazakstan. China leads in production of the material so it makes sense they would make things out of the stuff.
It's good to have the knowledge to be able to use the graphs to test material claims made by the company. I learned some good tweeter stuff. Thanks.
Great video!
I have the Belisma T25B tweeters and they are amazing. Would love to try these Chinese tweeters against the Belisma tweeters.
Thanks for a great and detailed review. Just what I wanted to know.
@RAW-CAt
Thanks to Frank for supplying some of these tweeters, and to you for testing them.
My only real concern when using any of these types of inexpensive no-name tweeters is their QC, unit-to-unit consistency, and longevity compared to the more respected & proven Danish origin brands and models (Scanspeak/Vifa/Peerless/Dynaudio/Hiquphon/Purifi), along with SB Acoustics, SEAS, LPG, Morel, etc.
Precise Imaging and Soundstage rely on very close matching in frequency response between the Left & Right drivers, and while we can and WILL need to use EQ in a car to match the L & R response, IF there is an inherent resonance (impedance "blip") or breakup mode that is DIFFERENT from unit-to-unit, this may be detrimental and impossible to overcome.
Power Compression and Response Linearity at high levels OVER TIME as the voice coil and motor/magnet heat up is worth testing as well, especially as this could vary quite a bit if there is not a high level of unit-to-unit consistency and QC.
And although it is 2x the work, IMO it's always best to test tweeters (or any drivers) in Pairs in order to check for QC and unit-to-unit consistency.
As a side note, both Accuton and BlieSMa offer Diamond diaphragm tweeters as well, but IMO the BlieSMa T34B & T25B true Beryllium dome tweeters are a bargain considering their insane level of performance, and they aren't quite as large as these other "large format" home audio tweeters.
Cheers!
Youre right about it. Someone at HTGuide testet them and two tweeters measured and sounded differently. They concluded that they didn't fill them with ferrofluid enough and after ferrofluid replacement, they were matching. They also don't have enough stuffing inside to mitigate the bac chamber resonances, but they respond well to ading wool.
The two Beryllium look identical except for the rear housing. The no name one looks suprisingly similar to the Morel Supremo from the early 2000s, which has a similarity low fs.
Thanks for this review, I've been really curious on the Peerless and Vifa brands.
You read my mind, i just observing this tweeter
I almost bought those beryllium tweeters but no one had any info on them. Thank you so much, i think i might grab them now before people see this video and find out lol
will you share links to get them?
Yes waiting
Save your money. Those must be made of bamboo, and the specs are pure nonsense, just like all china products.
@@pedrodaniellopesferreira2916not all. Don't generalize)
Did you watch the video and tests@@pedrodaniellopesferreira2916
The issue with ceramic, metal, and other very hard materials is that where there breakup happens it is much more severe because the material isn't inherently damped - it's stiff. A hard breakup at 18-19k on a tweeter may not result on anything audible for most people. For something like a 6" cone the breakup of a metal driver would very possibly land in the middle of the audible range and where it's trying to integrate with a tweeter. That can be absolutely terrible. So you will be likely to see steep crossovers used on those extremely stff coned drivers and or lower crossover points. For any of them they can take steps to dampen the cone for the breakup but that will add cost, and likely hurt sensitivity. All kinds of interesting trade offs!
These look great though.
Would love to see same tests for the 2-4 inch cheap domed midrange speakers from China.
I bought the same 8 ohm versions with the 25 diafragma, controlled by a dsp, it is a very very nice tweeter, but it has that extreme S problem, with peaks from 4 to 8khz. the control, equing it out it gets very enjoyable, there is a lot of nice detail compared to the sb 29 mm ringradiator. i also think, that the frontpanel causes some honky ponky peaks , i am currently working on a waveguide for it.
Focal Utopia headphones were some of the first audiophile top tier headphones to used beryllium drivers and were said that's part of the reason why they cost a few grand. But a few years later Chinese headphone manufacturers started introducing models with beryllium drivers under $500....That shown me it's only a matter of time when this material will trickle down in cost for other types of drivers besides headphone types. Good video info.
what about titanium tweeter?
@@MasterofPlay7 Not sure what your question is.....are they gonna be obsolete or replaced by beryllium? Doubt it.
@@ecstasy5317 so what're the characteristics of different metal tweeters?
@@MasterofPlay7 I'll give you a break down on them later, but the usual camps are metals, plastics, and cloth types. All three has different benefits and you can even mix them. But in a nutshell, metals types can offer a more brighter and/or detailed treble or tone pitch. Hard plastics can offer a sound presentation of being in between metal and cloth types, not quite as bright or detailed as metal types (not necessarily inferior) but not quite as relaxed or buttery smooth as some silk or cloth types, especially some domes or inverted type diaphragms. Tweeters with silk, cloth, or similar material diaphragms are one of my favorites, the treble presentation can be both extended while being smooth, also because of the possible soft material damping it can be tweaked to not be as overly bright with minimal detail loss. I used to combine both metal and silk type drivers/tweeters to get a mixture of each, yes I know, I know, that means about doubling the amount of tweeters but that's what I liked doing and the results usually were excellent if done right lol.
@@ecstasy5317 but I was surprised that the klipsch rp600m ii with the titanium tweeter doesn't't sound cold or bright, actually they sounded warm to my ears
The first speaker to use beryllium domes was the vernerable yamaha NS-1000 launched in the late 1970's. I still own my original pair and they still sound amazing.
Yes that's the one. I thought they were introduced in early '80s. But the fact remains that they were the first commercial loudspeaker to use Be.
1974
@@terryilett9437 there are different dates out there so I could be mistaken but I should have clarified I was speaking of the NS-1000 M.
So, where is the link to the no-name Be tweeter?
I’d like to try these. Was the one you declared the winner the 25mm 8ohm on the eBay page?
Try the Peerless tweeters from cpc £2.81 each and 80wrms 4ohm
Strange…wonder what the data sheet/manufacturer says for that ring rads fs and QTs. QTs looks be near none possibly. Haven’t seen any other ring rads without a bump at QTs. Could possible be a lcr compensation notch inside the things back chamber. Inductance could also have been internally compensated with a zobel as well on it looks like the least of the bunch.
try these i like them i used 2 different but mostly same units i sure you can find them in many stores Timpano Audio TPT-ST2 4" Super Tweeter Pair
How about a link to the tweeter ?????
what about titanium tweeter?
Remember, if you like to play extremely loud you should not cross any speakers close to their limit frequency. Since it will start distorting at higher FQ compared to lower volunes. I have Bliesma T25B crossed at 2k.
This is exactly why I test at 100dB, to push the driver to it's limits and see how it performs.
I have the Blisma T25B and the no name MeloDavid and they sound almost the same hard to hear any difference, the distortion is so low. The advantage with Blisma it to cross it a bit lower, however you have to pay for that feature true your nose. The MeloDavid is a bargain whatever you compare it to! However Beryllium have long run in time, they sound good from the beginning but get better with time like a fine wine.
What is run end time? Is that like break in period for new carss?
I would say about a half year all doe they get gradually better to that point, I think it's the resonances that get lower with time @@ilovebohol
Which meloDavid do you have? Is it the 28mm or the 25mm or are they the same. I am trying to buy them and I would really appreciate your help.
@@dimitrisdrk Hi it is this Be28 28mm beryllium
@@fredrikbarthel4803 Thank you. Do you know the rms power handling for them?
In REW, for the life of me, I can't figure out how to show distortion as graphed to % on the chart. It's always dB relative and I've been unable to figure this out. What am I missing?
You can change the Y axis to whatever you want. One of the options is %. Just click on dBr and there will be a drop down menu.
You can hear the harshness at 18-19k ?
6:38 "0 point energy engage" 😂
You promised to put a link in the description. Can you add a link?
Link added👍
5:24 The second magnet stuck on the back is for magnetic field cancellation: this tweeter is meant to be used near displays.
That magnet is more likely used to increase the magnetic flux.
That $30 Chinese ring radiator is a strange copy. It has a bucking magnet to reduce magnetic interference for using near CRT monitors, lol... Not something needed for 2+ decades.
Bucking magnets aren't just to reduce magnetic interference, they're also used to increase magnetic flux in the gap. They essentially push stray magnetic fields that would escape out of the back and redirect them toward the pole and gap.
To my knowledge They make the dubble magnets like that to reduce the effects it could have with a TV If it was close, But I don't know if modern tvs are sensitive to 🧲 like the old ones they are called bucking magnets 🤔
TAD TD4003 Diaphrams around £4000 each .... Read up on vapour deposition ...
What about the ones that claim to be ceramic?
They might be ceramic, but the cone breakup is in the audible range, so they are not good at all.
I’ve watched the vid now 👍. Yamaha NS-1000M - beryllium tweeter and mid. Vapour deposited (like TAD) as opposed to pressed from foil.
I just want to point out a couple things.
He is comparing a 19mm tweeter with 25mm ones. Obviously it's going to look bad.
He is comparing a soft dome tweeter with hard metal and ceramic tweeters. Obviously it's going to look bad on THD plots. They don't even need to be berillium, because aluminium measures equally low distortion.
SB26ADC would fit that role better. Berillium is supposed to have better decay characteristics, so it would be interesting to see some waterfalls too.
Also worth noting that tweeter design is not just the diaphragm material. Suspension, quality control and everything that's behind the diaphragm are important. The best manufacturers like Kartesian or ScanSpeak even pay attention to venting behind the suspension to make sure it isn't affected too much by it's' back volume.
Thank you for the comparison RAW-CAt. You took the bait and did the work, so I'm grateful.
Thanks for the feedback. I am planning to make an update video with more different tweeters and there I can measure and show waterfall graphs👍
@@RAW-CAt subbed. I'm interested in what you think of them. Are they more audiophile or more like monitors etc.
Can you describe both if those terms and how do they differ?
At 3:30 you mention "a dome is a good shape for a tweeter for dispersion". That is incorrect. Ideally you want the diaphragm to act like a piston in the frequency range of interest. That's a large reason for using a beryllium dome in the first place. When the diaphragm enters a breakup mode is when it's not acting like a piston. The lightness and stiffness of the beryllium extends the range of pistonic operation. The dome shape gives it strength/stiffness no matter what it's made of but, does not play a role in dispersion. The diameter does however, like any speaker diaphragm.
Also, if your assertion were correct how would the Focal inverted domes operate?
they all as much "Beryllium" as Monitor Audio tweeters "ceramic". i bet they are aluminium domes coated with thin layer of other material. no one says that whole dome is pure beryllium )
(and as for "ceramic" - it is always been just a buyers-pleasing word for anodized. aluminium oxide is a ceramic)
7:01 - in theory it can be. cause there is no matter what material used for a product when there is only couple milligrams of it.
if we talk about a tweeter dome there is no such thing as "expensive material" cause it will cost only 5-10$ even if made out of pure platinum.
beryllium cost is about 7$ per gramm. typical moving mass of a metal dome tweeter is 0.3g so - 2.1$ per one pure beryllium dome.
i have scan speak berillium , made in china, super good and expensive. i dont have cheap
i have a lot of tweeters, but this is the best!!!
but for full benefits, the speaker cables also can be the nighthmare!!!!but its possible!!!!!!!
Isn’t beryllium extremely toxic?
Yes, but only if you break or physically disturb the dome or its surface. Focal includes the ☠️⚠️ warning and a bag in case it breaks, but by then it's too late. Any inhaled particules are extremely toxic. Luckily Focal have their beryllium tweeters in their home speakers protected by a fixed rigid metal guard. I have kids so this was comforting to see.
very
Maybe they are only Beryllium coated..
Cone break-up = break-up ;)
U0m a big fan user of yamha spkrs.- they don't sound hard. good design. caution be is extremely toxic to humans. so if these are be domed, if they break through overload. must be isolated,safely disposed off. bagged. do not touch be or breathe in powdered fragments. danger is very real. causes cancer.
I have contacted the seller (on Ebay) for these recommended tweeters, stating that I will give feedback providing they are real beryllium using a spectral analysis and can they confirm if they are genuine or not before I go ahead and purchase! Guess what, no reply from the seller! I guess they don't want a sale
No one will supply that Information for a 100usd driver... It's not like you will ask Klippel data of a 10 dollar driver from china..
@@RAW-CAt I've asked other manufacturer's of Beryllium tweeters and they replied back stating yes they are made of Beyllium, so I can't see why just a quick email stating yes or no is going to cost more then simply replying to an email
I don't like the beryllium sound.
you havent heard them then ...
How people became audiophools to buy 0.0001% THD amplifiers at high powers to drive speakers that cannot reproduce better than 0.1% even at low levels.
Don't forget the golden pixie dust infused cables and cable stands.
No offense but you can’t cross a SB19 at 1kHz or a cheap chinese tweeter ar 700Hz. Measure at 100dB at 1m.
Why not?
A dangerous substance for entertainment purposes ? What's next gun powder woofers?
OSHA has an inhalation standard for Be in air in the workplace . There is Be in soil. Respiratory protection should be used if workers generate airborne particles that exceed this standard in an 8 hr workday. Relax
Do not buy tweeters in Ali😂. I have bought all of them.. and all are shit
These ones are still running strong😉
@@RAW-CAt it's a veeeery hard to find good and cheap in 2.5inch size. I use Beyma OEM plastic. That's perfect
Of course not it's made in china
Useful but too long. Please consider making 5-7 minute videos. Of course, it would mean that the text has to be carefully considered and scripted. And no “thinking aloud” on camera, but on the other hand, it would bring more followers and viewers.
Thank you for the feedback, but my channel is not for "quick" and "easily digestabe" content. My goal is not to attract subscribers, but to share.
If you need exelent tweter test. T330d esotar they made also china !