Rejection of the gift is probably my favorite WoW cinematic ever, it's just so fucking good, I had goosebumps first time watching it back in the day, I have it still today, Illidan is best wow character idc
Seconded. Illidan blasting Xe'ra was so unexpected, and so fucking epic. Massive twist we spent all this time repairing this Prime Naaru and it was supposed to help us, then it tries to basically enslave Illidan and he blows it up out of nowehere, and the tension that builds throughout the cutscene is perfect, until the unforgettable climax
Actually it's the dummer story wise. Rule of cool and nothing more . Though his entire history Illidan has been bleeding dry others or using them for power in the name of supposed common good but when the sparkly chandelier does the same to Illidan suddenly Xera is the villain and Illidan the free will fighter ? Give me a fucking break.
There's an interesting comparison that could be made in how Turalyon looks like Anduin when he got dominated by the Jailer, only that everything is Light-themed. Turalyon's armor, sword, eyes and attitude have all been influenced in a way we saw happen to Anduin in Shadowlands
@@ananyamukherjee6944 Not saying it isn’t. Just saying it’s interesting to think about the possibility Turalyon is in a similar boat as Anduin but just being “dominated” by light.
The absolute most notable thing imo is that in spite of Illidan wanting the exact same thing as the Naaru, to end the burning legion and end the reign of demons, the Naaru still wanted to control him. All Illidan wanted was to do it his own way. In a world of Xe'ras be an Illidan.
Sargereas doesn't look pissed at the end of the legion cinematic. I don't get the feeling of a villain who is like "arrg the heroes got me again!" he looks more worried. He looks defeated. It's more like "How could I let this happen" when he reaches for the draenei ship he looks worried. I suck at explaining but yeah. he doesn't strike me as the evil bad guy villain with that expression. Just that we may never realize the truth.
Illidan will come back, not alone but fused with the essence of Sargeras. Mark my words. In the years they spend together in the Seat of the Pantheon, Illidan will get to understand what Sargeras was REALLY trying to do and will aid him to SET US ALL FREE. 🙌🙌 Also: Really no one noticed the eyes in Turalyon? It happens twice, when Xe'ra assambles and then dissasembles xD
If Illidan's golden eyes were a sign of his destiny, and maybe a connection to the light, then what about Azshara? she also had the golden eyes. Does that mean she also had a grand destiny? and unlike Illidan, she didn't loose them when she transformed, her eyes are still kinda golden, just a bit more orange (and now she has more of them lol) does that mean she would still have a destiny that must play out? and her eyes DID change, so did N'zoth change or twist her destiny without changing it? it would expplain why he wanted to make a deal with her in the first place, since in her warbringers he didn't seem to have any interest in her people.
Remember in a thousand year's war... Xeera could see that Turalyon and Allerya survived and escaped on Argus, but was completely blind to how (because it would be through the void). She knows Illidan is the chosen one, but she has no idea how he becomes that (I'm guessing the void has a part to play here too) so she tried to force it on him before she died.
Maybe it’s the thing with the eyes. Since Illidan had the light removed from his eyes she can’t predict or see the future through his eyes anymore bc no light which would make Sargeras and Illidans sacrifice big brain move without knowing it
It should also be said, Illidan was born with literal light in his eyes. In the war of the ancients they touch on this that he was ordained for a great destiny, sacrificing that light for fel severed his ties to the destiny that was set out for him and replaced with one that he set himself.
I wonder if we're gonna see Illidan show up with 2 shadows whenever he makes his return. Mentioned in "The Last Guardian" novel, When Aegwynn, the last true Guardians of Tirisfal, defeated demons at the Tomb of Sargeras, the avatar of Sargeras that she defeated and sealed in the Tomb left her a little gift, a piece of Sargeras's soul attached itself to her own, and then passed onto Medhiv when she gave birth. One of the strange phenomenae that occured following this, was that Aegwynn had two shadows. Perhaps Sargeras will sever an un-ordered piece of his soul and attach it to Illidan, and one little detail that we might notice in-game before the big reveal, would be Illidan having 2 shadows.
The way I see the WorldSaga going, with a few keypoints that will happen: 1. We solve the mistery behind the sword, and the purpose of it, which sends us back to Illidan and Sargeras after we learn what Azeroth is. 2. The Titans warn us not to interfere with the Light and focus on the upcoming Void, meanwhile Illidan understands why the Light tried to take him over in Legion and makes a pact with Sargeras. When the time comes he will free him. 3. The Void comes and we are on a full fight vs remaints of the Old Gods and Voidlords. Aman'Thul takes his part in the war to defeat the Void, while asking the Primus to set in motion what he tried through Zooval. 4. Illidan grows sceptic with the Titans and frees Sargeras which sacrifices himself to defeat the Void ( as his entire Legion plot was to have a force ready to combat it ), Azeroth awakens and is in the care of the Aman'Thul. 5. The Titans not having any threats left, become elitists and try to control us but Illidan takes us away with some help from whatever info/tool Sargeras left him with ( probably some backstory on the First Ones ) 6. We face the Primus and defeat him sometime during early last xpac of the saga, and with the knowledge we get from Illidan we go on to face Aman'Thul ( not sure at this point if Illidan survives or not, probably sacrifices himself to free Azeroth ) 7. Along Azeroth we face Aman'Thul within a battle that resets reality, and we become the reincarnation of the First Ones which set in motion a dark vs light experiment, to see the outcome and that is the end of WoW. *We might get to see a return of Arthas from a different timeline, which did not corrupt him, but mostly we will have Anduin as a Light champion that will play a role of a redeemed Arthas. Blizz is trying their best to write Anduin in such a way to become what Arthas should have, without going back of re-using nostalgia favorites.
The destiny in Illidan, according to book(war 10k years ago) he was born with golden eyes, which is considered in elven society to be destined for great things. And he gave up his eyes. I am glad they connected these dots together
So great to have you back on the lore and Theory talks pyro, i remember watching all your stuff through my early years in uni. And with the return of chris metzen, we're back on a hell of a ride to rejoice from the lore this game has to offer. Keep up the good work you bring life to this story
Hey @Pyromancer something about Illidan that isn't talked much is that he tried to become a druid, got expelled from "Life school", went to the Moonguard and learned Arcane (Order) got really good at it and YOINKED the souls of all of his students to fight the Legion, so he challenged Life, Order and now Light by splashing Xera, just to be more powerful/challenge the stablished autority, and/or not surrender his autonomy/freedom, refusing to die to "higher power entities" that didn't care about choice. He uses everything and anything he can to survive, and fight "fate", controversial but understandible character, that's why most people fucks with him!
Pyro have you ever wondered what Sargeras ment when he says "that which you have stolen will be your undoing" as Argus forms in the seat of the pantheon
Would love to hear Pyro's thought on this as well. My take is that he's talking about Argus. In the audio book we learn that Argus was held captive in Titan structures. He also felt that he was betrayed. I doubt Sargeras betrayed him, it was probably the Titans who did it and imprisoned him in the first place. If Sargeras was the one who first trapped Argus then how did the Titans know so much about him in the fight? They surely interacted before.
@@GreenblackGBG So the titans form of "ordering" things is to imprison them deffs starting to feel like pyro was on to something when he speculated that the titans imprisoned azeroth and possibly were responsible for creating/ordering the shadowlands.
Back in Legion I had the headcanon that the heroes of Azeroth (the paragon of each race, IE the Order Hall leader) plus select lore characters (Illidan, Jaina, etc) were blessed by Azeroth at birth, to be extremely powerful and have important destinies tied to her growth
Once it was revealed that Illidan was born with amber eyes and that it was a sign of great Druidic power, I had really hoped that Illidan would return, looking like his original self, and he had such strong Druidic power that he could turn into a green dragon as his Druidic form. But what we actually got was pretty dang cool.
I think the "Light" That we encounter is just Ordered. We haven't even met the "Light" Yet... we just met the Naru who are just agents of the Titans who are ordered.
i remember a few years back talking in your chat about how when we met illidan again he would have became lightforged. so cool were back there again :3
I just want to know what Illidan wants on the Seat of the Pantheon.. Is he joining forces with Sargeras or what? It's been years, I can't take the suspension any longer
I really hope that Illidan comes back as Illidan the lightbringer. Nicely asked by the titans, he is alone with, to fullfill his destiny. He very gracefully and gratefuly accepted the new prime Naaru's gift. Now he will bring peace and order to Azeroth. Could you imagine the playerbases reaction if Illidan returns without demon wings, but fully healed with golden eyes and lightforged tatoos. The one character that really, really didn't want to be lightforged. A cinematic where he returns like that, would probably shock everyone, the core playerbase who at most only watch cinematics and maybe read a little bit of questtexts, the characters who know Illidan, but also the lorenerds, who would've a "oh shit, we're so fucked" reaction.
You side note about Illidan that some might have forgotten. At the end of the Nighthold after beating Gul'dan and the fake Illidan aka the Demon Within. The Demon Within says "He will yet claim this Titan." Which means Sargeras sees Azeroth as a Titan and wants to use her for something, rather than kill her.
Honestly most speculate that the titans and the naaru are order/light but in reality they go around "forcing" there will on the universe which would be domination. Order would be more towards keeping a natural order within the universe with balance. I speculate the titans have "dominated" the universe and obscured history to make themselves look like the universes saviors to further solidify there position. I have a feeling the naaru themselves are a form of living domination rune. But still keeping order would be to protect the natural flow and order of things, the titans forced there will to whatever pleased them within the universe essentially dominating it. I could further theorize that when the naaru tried to dominate illidan to a pre-ordained destiny this may have actually been his final test as far as whether he can withstand the might of the pantheons domination magic, something turalyon likely failed and succumbed to.
order is more like limiting rather than control, for example the light is a line function, life could be the repeating upper part of lets say sine weave and order would be two lines on the graph. they are fine with everything between the lines
I can believe that the Light, the Titans, and possibly even the Primus are all in cahoots with each other to subjugate Life and eradicate the forces of Fel and Void from the universe. But I do not see them necessarily being on the same page or being "friendly" with each other. To me, this "alliance" between the Titans and the Light feels more like the "alliance" between Death and Fel during WCIII (how the Scourge was formed), or how Fel and Void briefly worked together to back the Horde in the first two Warcraft games. Arcane and Light can work together against a common foe or towards a common goal, but I believe that those two forces can never be true allies, simply by the nature of how they operate. Specifically, Arcane seeks order through cold, calculated, logical means, whereas Light seeks order through emotion, zeal, and irrational faith. If, theoretically, the Titans and the Light did succeed in completely subjugating Life and exterminating the forces of Fel and Void, it would only be a matter of time before one of them turned on the other.
So was the plan all along to trick illidan into the pantheon with Sargeras so he could dominate and posses illidan? What illidan will we see in the last titan xpac?
There is a great irony comparing the freedom of Illidan to the freedom of the player-characters. Characters often only have the illusion of choice by the very structure of the game. Want to be involved in raiding? Then you've chosen your immutable role in the following cut-scene. Want to celebrate your defeat of Fyrakk? Then wait on these 12 tables. It may be meta, but free will is an illusion by design.
Illadan being a self-made Elf getting little upset on mommy Naru when she try to force him to do her plan. Personally His speech about 'we can only save our self' is a general good message.
Your speculation is stretching too much! The titans did not create the naaru! It's just that the light and arcane are in complete alignment with their goals. That's why they work together. if you look at the two cosmological maps (titan vs broker). the 6 forces are divided into two triangles of alignment. broker map (based on healing/creation vs corruption/destruction). =order(arcane)-life-light vs disorder(fel)-void-death titan map (based of orderly forces vs chaotic forces). =Order-light-death vs fel-void-life. On both maps, light and arcane are completely allied with each other. now, void & fel should have been allies but they are too chaotic by nature to do that.
This is one of the biggest issue I have with Pyro. I enjoy his speculation, but he focuses too much on Titans, which blinds him to other possibilities. The Amanthul controlling sargares with ruin magic is wild mainly because sarg wisped formed the ebtire pantheon shortly after Azeroth was ordered. We see their essence in legion. How would that be explained away? Unless blizz retcon it like usual. Similarly light, while in game it is shown via khadgar that the origin of the naruu is tied somehow to Elune, this link is never fully explained. Also, now that we know for sure Elune is a life based cosmic entity, how does it in any way links to a light based cosmic entity. Considering per chronicle that the clash of light and shadow created the entire reality as is, how would the pieces fit together if elune is the byproduct of that supposed clash.
@Pyro I listen to these when my wife makes me do the dishes and clean the kitchen. Now I can’t look at a dirty dish without thanking about WoW Lore haha Keep up the great work buddy. I love these videos 🙂
O M F G... you are playing the game the absolute right way we never knew. Do we trust in Blizzard that hard ? Are they really going for such a deep Story ? You know what ?! I am with you. I think they did. Damn, never noticed Turalyon's Eye's before.
With the help of pyro I think the story IS there it’s always just the execution of the story that fails us. That and we can’t see the end goal so we take it all at face value. It reminds me of the early reception of the Star Wars prequels
If we can assume that Legion's storyline was laid out by Metzen before he left, which has been implicated, then Metzen coming back now means we'll be picking up where Legion left off essentially so yeah, it could be real good
With Illidans eyes...he see's demons differently right like that demon sense thing? I wonder what he see's with the titans. Like the only reason why I can think of them writing out illidan's "Destiny" is to secure their chances of beating Sargeras right? So with this the titans might have "Short sighted" into the future with illidan and now trust him way too much for their own good, Illidan will come back to warn us. Has too.
Bro! I literally posted my concerns about illidin on your video from yesterday. My fear is with him being at the seat of the pantheon…. Which has domination runes etch into its flooring, that Sargaras will be decommissioned and the Titans will invoke their order on Illidin, he’s all alone and my dude will be overwhelmed. He will return in the last titan as a light forged, wearing domination runes much like Sargaras and Anduin. Also, I also believe with the decision to keep de-escalating the horde and alliance conflict that we are going to enter a new faction conflict come Midnight. Forget alliance vs Horde, we’re all going to be choosing light or void. That choice will come when Uyrl walks through the AU portal with the newly bolstered army of the light from a now desolate AU dranor. Midnight isn’t the fight of the void, but the crusade of the light and if Azeroth will succumb to the same outcome of present day AU dranor. Just ask the Mag’har orcs how that shit is going.
I noticed the light in Turalyon's eyes fading from the beginning, but one thing I would love to get your thoughts on is his facial expression when X'era wakes up and says that Illidan was the chosen one. Turalyon looks disappointed to hear that as he gestures for Illidan to come forth. I wanna know what THAT was about. Did he want to be that guy instead, or does he just have an issue with trusting Illidan of all people with being that guy?
What's sad to me is that Turalyon is an actual good person, or at least he was. Before he went to Draenor and ended up in the thousand year war. If he is corrupted or being controlled I hope he can break free.
And at the end of Legion, he himself chose to stay behind INSIDE THE TITAN PANTHEON to either guard or kill Sargeras. Who knows what the titans have done to Illidan while he has been there in the titans presence. So exactly how controlled could he have become?
Illidan has basically consume all fell magic from universe because when you slay a demon you consume its power that what I think of illidan power , for me he is the big boss of disorder now
It wouldn't surprise me if Alleria is leading the void incursion during midnight, and Turalyon is leading the light, and they will go against each other, Alleria dies (killed by Turalyon), and then Turalyon goes totally crazy and tries to lead the takeover of Azeroth by the light/titans, which would lead into the 3rd part of the saga.
The day will come when Blizzard will acknowledge Pyro for these theories.(Hopefully they won’t be pissed cuz u figured it out what the whole plan was😂) To be fairly honest, since he came back and started doing these speculations i think he’s actually on top of the upcoming story. Everything that he said i feel like is going to happen. So if you’re reading this Pyro, thanks for coming back and actually making the whole story for us a little bit more interesting ✌🏻
I have always noticed that when Blizzard makes their cinematics, there are always little nuances that if one is not really watching, it will be missed. Just like Turalyon's eyes. I always have to watch them two or three times to see what it is I am missing and there is always something. They do this on purpose. To tell a story and give clues as to what is really going on.
It pains me that we've yet to reach the storytelling of Legion again. One of my most distinct wow memories was the absolute let down that Bfa was when I realized Legion was a lightning strike and wasn't likely to happen again.
@ Pyromancer if this all of your and community theory crafting comes to be true I'm going to filp TF out. the details you pointing, and how it alls falls in to one piece- amazing man just amazing
Hey Pyro, how does fit MURU into all that. I'm not that deep into the lore but wasn MURU like a void Naruu that spawned Antropius? How does all that fit in with what we know today?
I saw the eyes changed and OMG, that was my first thought---this guy is a fanatic and he's going to do whatever his "light" tells him to do. I've been saying since this cinematic that Turalyon was trouble, I've been worried for the Alliance the entire time he's been in charge. I also don't trust his wife. But that whole thing, with you spelling it out along this whole thing, has cemented my beliefs that he's not a good guy, she's not good, and this whole thing is going to be a real problem in about 1 expansion or so. Maybe a fight between Azeroth and the Army of the Light? Choose your side.
What if the Naaru are just ordered light and the true light wants people to have free will or at least fight for the world/azeroth. Therefore I think the golden eyes at birth are more symbolic because it seems the only way to have free will is to have power of light and void together (that's how fel was made). Azshara also seems to be of her own mind and we know that she was connected to the light at one point and now is a being of the old gods/void. Perhaps we will see a huge storyline with both Illidan and Azshara taking the reins and fighting the titans. Perhaps even the true light and void work together for once to free the universe that they created from the control of the titans which is why their champions would be people who have both light and void in them such as Illidan and Azshara and maybe Alleria to some extent.
@@dirthamen5323 that could work too. Maybe they teamed up when the titans first started ordering the universe and the mortals are just becoming aware of it now
Hear me out.. While I agree the Naaru are probably Titans work and Titans pawn.. I am not sure about chosen one and "domination and mind control" so much. Turalion's eye change color true.. But so they change in the beginning when Xe'ra gets "summoned or pieced up". .His eyes turn from Brown to Yellow, as they reverse after Xe'ra is broken. Turalions actions also do not provide a "sane" behavior after she's destroyed or before she's even summoned. He's a fanatic before, during and after. Do i think he's been brain washed? Yes.. Do i think he's been mind controlled or possessed or similar? No
if you are saying the narus are ordered by the titans then that means Elune is also ordered in a way. Either that or that she's in same league as the pantheon.
@justinb7494 yes but I said that because of this passage from wowpedia : "and Archmage Khadgar found in an ancient cosmology tome a passage indicating that the prime naaru may have been created by Elune during the great ordering of Light and Shadow". with the assumption that they may have been made by Elune, she must have been ordered in a way. why is it that we think the order, the light and life has always been in same league to defeat disorder and the void, idk!
@@permafrost93elune could have created the prime naarus and then the titans could have went and dominated them. we dont have a timeline but both those things could be true.
Blizzard goi g forward needs to do more cinematics, and those said cinematics need to be far more than 3 minutes. The story is dope, but limiting it to 3 minutes doesn't do it justice.
The "Turalyon is a zealot" argument has zero backing or weight to it. He has shown nothing in game, short stories, or books to hint at that in the least. In fact the way he has operated the Alliance in the longest era of peace ever, the way Alleria and he navigated her being void touched if anything PROVES that he is not some zealot of the light.
Rejection of the gift is probably my favorite WoW cinematic ever, it's just so fucking good, I had goosebumps first time watching it back in the day, I have it still today, Illidan is best wow character idc
Exactly. I sometimes talk to my self and repeating all the text XD
When he killed Gul dan was the best one for me
Yeah same. At the same time it's predictable cringe lines but also very very warcrafty cool. Love it.
Seconded. Illidan blasting Xe'ra was so unexpected, and so fucking epic. Massive twist we spent all this time repairing this Prime Naaru and it was supposed to help us, then it tries to basically enslave Illidan and he blows it up out of nowehere, and the tension that builds throughout the cutscene is perfect, until the unforgettable climax
Actually it's the dummer story wise. Rule of cool and nothing more . Though his entire history Illidan has been bleeding dry others or using them for power in the name of supposed common good but when the sparkly chandelier does the same to Illidan suddenly Xera is the villain and Illidan the free will fighter ? Give me a fucking break.
I am my scars! and My destiny is my own! are two of the greatest quotes in cutscenes. I get chills everytime!
Definitely hyped me up
There's an interesting comparison that could be made in how Turalyon looks like Anduin when he got dominated by the Jailer, only that everything is Light-themed. Turalyon's armor, sword, eyes and attitude have all been influenced in a way we saw happen to Anduin in Shadowlands
Because his armor sword made by fallen Naaru , if i remember correctly 😒
@@ananyamukherjee6944 Not saying it isn’t. Just saying it’s interesting to think about the possibility Turalyon is in a similar boat as Anduin but just being “dominated” by light.
@@balthasarroussel6956 naa..he isn't possessed like Anduin, maybe brain washed but not under possession or mind control
The absolute most notable thing imo is that in spite of Illidan wanting the exact same thing as the Naaru, to end the burning legion and end the reign of demons, the Naaru still wanted to control him. All Illidan wanted was to do it his own way. In a world of Xe'ras be an Illidan.
And Illidan did something differently? Have you read the Illdan novel and what he did to Outland?
Illidan has always and always will be my favourite character. I love when videos are made about him
Illidan's light was actually his eyes, he was born with yellow holy eyes before sargeras burnt them. I remember it was a quest in legion.
Plz ...plz never remind anyone ever again those horrendous flashbacks
It literally happens in Warcraft 3. Long before world of Warcraft
Sargereas doesn't look pissed at the end of the legion cinematic. I don't get the feeling of a villain who is like "arrg the heroes got me again!" he looks more worried. He looks defeated. It's more like "How could I let this happen" when he reaches for the draenei ship he looks worried. I suck at explaining but yeah. he doesn't strike me as the evil bad guy villain with that expression. Just that we may never realize the truth.
It's time for Illidan to come back. Break the glass Blizzard, we need Illidan again.
no we dont need demons
rejection of the gift is like the most hype fucking cutscene ever..
Illidan will come back, not alone but fused with the essence of Sargeras. Mark my words. In the years they spend together in the Seat of the Pantheon, Illidan will get to understand what Sargeras was REALLY trying to do and will aid him to SET US ALL FREE. 🙌🙌
Also: Really no one noticed the eyes in Turalyon? It happens twice, when Xe'ra assambles and then dissasembles xD
I am so happy you are making these videos again - THANK YOU!
It's always been interesting to me that they placed a lot of emphasis on his being born with gold eyes.
Azhara also was born with Gold Eyes .....
Anyone get the vibes this way of the Warcraft story shifting is an allegory to rejection of mainstream religion?
If Illidan's golden eyes were a sign of his destiny, and maybe a connection to the light, then what about Azshara? she also had the golden eyes. Does that mean she also had a grand destiny? and unlike Illidan, she didn't loose them when she transformed, her eyes are still kinda golden, just a bit more orange (and now she has more of them lol) does that mean she would still have a destiny that must play out? and her eyes DID change, so did N'zoth change or twist her destiny without changing it? it would expplain why he wanted to make a deal with her in the first place, since in her warbringers he didn't seem to have any interest in her people.
Remember in a thousand year's war... Xeera could see that Turalyon and Allerya survived and escaped on Argus, but was completely blind to how (because it would be through the void). She knows Illidan is the chosen one, but she has no idea how he becomes that (I'm guessing the void has a part to play here too) so she tried to force it on him before she died.
Maybe it’s the thing with the eyes. Since Illidan had the light removed from his eyes she can’t predict or see the future through his eyes anymore bc no light which would make Sargeras and Illidans sacrifice big brain move without knowing it
It should also be said, Illidan was born with literal light in his eyes. In the war of the ancients they touch on this that he was ordained for a great destiny, sacrificing that light for fel severed his ties to the destiny that was set out for him and replaced with one that he set himself.
It's videos like these that make me 1) so happy I found Pyromancer's content 2) truly appreciate to the full extent WOW's lore and Blizzard's work.
I wonder if we're gonna see Illidan show up with 2 shadows whenever he makes his return.
Mentioned in "The Last Guardian" novel, When Aegwynn, the last true Guardians of Tirisfal, defeated demons at the Tomb of Sargeras, the avatar of Sargeras that she defeated and sealed in the Tomb left her a little gift, a piece of Sargeras's soul attached itself to her own, and then passed onto Medhiv when she gave birth. One of the strange phenomenae that occured following this, was that Aegwynn had two shadows.
Perhaps Sargeras will sever an un-ordered piece of his soul and attach it to Illidan, and one little detail that we might notice in-game before the big reveal, would be Illidan having 2 shadows.
The way I see the WorldSaga going, with a few keypoints that will happen:
1. We solve the mistery behind the sword, and the purpose of it, which sends us back to Illidan and Sargeras after we learn what Azeroth is.
2. The Titans warn us not to interfere with the Light and focus on the upcoming Void, meanwhile Illidan understands why the Light tried to take him over in Legion and makes a pact with Sargeras. When the time comes he will free him.
3. The Void comes and we are on a full fight vs remaints of the Old Gods and Voidlords. Aman'Thul takes his part in the war to defeat the Void, while asking the Primus to set in motion what he tried through Zooval.
4. Illidan grows sceptic with the Titans and frees Sargeras which sacrifices himself to defeat the Void ( as his entire Legion plot was to have a force ready to combat it ), Azeroth awakens and is in the care of the Aman'Thul.
5. The Titans not having any threats left, become elitists and try to control us but Illidan takes us away with some help from whatever info/tool Sargeras left him with ( probably some backstory on the First Ones )
6. We face the Primus and defeat him sometime during early last xpac of the saga, and with the knowledge we get from Illidan we go on to face Aman'Thul ( not sure at this point if Illidan survives or not, probably sacrifices himself to free Azeroth )
7. Along Azeroth we face Aman'Thul within a battle that resets reality, and we become the reincarnation of the First Ones which set in motion a dark vs light experiment, to see the outcome and that is the end of WoW.
*We might get to see a return of Arthas from a different timeline, which did not corrupt him, but mostly we will have Anduin as a Light champion that will play a role of a redeemed Arthas. Blizz is trying their best to write Anduin in such a way to become what Arthas should have, without going back of re-using nostalgia favorites.
Turalyon the light junkie immediately going into withdrawal.
The destiny in Illidan, according to book(war 10k years ago) he was born with golden eyes, which is considered in elven society to be destined for great things. And he gave up his eyes. I am glad they connected these dots together
So great to have you back on the lore and Theory talks pyro, i remember watching all your stuff through my early years in uni. And with the return of chris metzen, we're back on a hell of a ride to rejoice from the lore this game has to offer. Keep up the good work you bring life to this story
''There can be no choesen ONE... Only WE can save ourselves'' i will watch it later, just the quote i thought off when reading the title
Hey @Pyromancer something about Illidan that isn't talked much is that he tried to become a druid, got expelled from "Life school", went to the Moonguard and learned Arcane (Order) got really good at it and YOINKED the souls of all of his students to fight the Legion, so he challenged Life, Order and now Light by splashing Xera, just to be more powerful/challenge the stablished autority, and/or not surrender his autonomy/freedom, refusing to die to "higher power entities" that didn't care about choice.
He uses everything and anything he can to survive, and fight "fate", controversial but understandible character, that's why most people fucks with him!
Pyro have you ever wondered what Sargeras ment when he says "that which you have stolen will be your undoing" as Argus forms in the seat of the pantheon
Would love to hear Pyro's thought on this as well. My take is that he's talking about Argus.
In the audio book we learn that Argus was held captive in Titan structures. He also felt that he was betrayed. I doubt Sargeras betrayed him, it was probably the Titans who did it and imprisoned him in the first place. If Sargeras was the one who first trapped Argus then how did the Titans know so much about him in the fight? They surely interacted before.
@@GreenblackGBG So the titans form of "ordering" things is to imprison them deffs starting to feel like pyro was on to something when he speculated that the titans imprisoned azeroth and possibly were responsible for creating/ordering the shadowlands.
Welcome back Pyro, you've been sorely missed.
Back in Legion I had the headcanon that the heroes of Azeroth (the paragon of each race, IE the Order Hall leader) plus select lore characters (Illidan, Jaina, etc) were blessed by Azeroth at birth, to be extremely powerful and have important destinies tied to her growth
Lord illidan knows the way
Illidan and Aszhara are both "chosen ones".
I do think that Illidan and Sargeras will both return as allies in Midnight and will aid us in stopping the Titans in the Last Titan.
Once it was revealed that Illidan was born with amber eyes and that it was a sign of great Druidic power, I had really hoped that Illidan would return, looking like his original self, and he had such strong Druidic power that he could turn into a green dragon as his Druidic form. But what we actually got was pretty dang cool.
I think the "Light" That we encounter is just Ordered. We haven't even met the "Light" Yet... we just met the Naru who are just agents of the Titans who are ordered.
i remember a few years back talking in your chat about how when we met illidan again he would have became lightforged. so cool were back there again :3
I just want to know what Illidan wants on the Seat of the Pantheon.. Is he joining forces with Sargeras or what?
It's been years, I can't take the suspension any longer
This was by far my favorite in game cinematic… I still get chills… but no, I have never noticed the change in eye color… 😮😮
Its a fucking travisty that Illidans Genji skin in overwatch doesnt yell "YOU. ARE NOT. PREPAIRED" when he ults
So if we go back 10k years, did Sargeras order Illidan by taking his eyes? In a weird way?
I really hope that Illidan comes back as Illidan the lightbringer. Nicely asked by the titans, he is alone with, to fullfill his destiny. He very gracefully and gratefuly accepted the new prime Naaru's gift. Now he will bring peace and order to Azeroth.
Could you imagine the playerbases reaction if Illidan returns without demon wings, but fully healed with golden eyes and lightforged tatoos.
The one character that really, really didn't want to be lightforged.
A cinematic where he returns like that, would probably shock everyone, the core playerbase who at most only watch cinematics and maybe read a little bit of questtexts, the characters who know Illidan, but also the lorenerds, who would've a "oh shit, we're so fucked" reaction.
You side note about Illidan that some might have forgotten. At the end of the Nighthold after beating Gul'dan and the fake Illidan aka the Demon Within. The Demon Within says "He will yet claim this Titan." Which means Sargeras sees Azeroth as a Titan and wants to use her for something, rather than kill her.
Honestly most speculate that the titans and the naaru are order/light but in reality they go around "forcing" there will on the universe which would be domination. Order would be more towards keeping a natural order within the universe with balance. I speculate the titans have "dominated" the universe and obscured history to make themselves look like the universes saviors to further solidify there position. I have a feeling the naaru themselves are a form of living domination rune. But still keeping order would be to protect the natural flow and order of things, the titans forced there will to whatever pleased them within the universe essentially dominating it. I could further theorize that when the naaru tried to dominate illidan to a pre-ordained destiny this may have actually been his final test as far as whether he can withstand the might of the pantheons domination magic, something turalyon likely failed and succumbed to.
order is more like limiting rather than control, for example the light is a line function, life could be the repeating upper part of lets say sine weave and order would be two lines on the graph. they are fine with everything between the lines
I can believe that the Light, the Titans, and possibly even the Primus are all in cahoots with each other to subjugate Life and eradicate the forces of Fel and Void from the universe. But I do not see them necessarily being on the same page or being "friendly" with each other. To me, this "alliance" between the Titans and the Light feels more like the "alliance" between Death and Fel during WCIII (how the Scourge was formed), or how Fel and Void briefly worked together to back the Horde in the first two Warcraft games.
Arcane and Light can work together against a common foe or towards a common goal, but I believe that those two forces can never be true allies, simply by the nature of how they operate. Specifically, Arcane seeks order through cold, calculated, logical means, whereas Light seeks order through emotion, zeal, and irrational faith.
If, theoretically, the Titans and the Light did succeed in completely subjugating Life and exterminating the forces of Fel and Void, it would only be a matter of time before one of them turned on the other.
also he wasnt even opposed to her or the goal, he just wanted to do it HIS way.
That Illidan vs Zera cinematic is the best shit in game
So was the plan all along to trick illidan into the pantheon with Sargeras so he could dominate and posses illidan? What illidan will we see in the last titan xpac?
I really love those series, keep them going Pyro. Right now you are the only channel that I follow the wow lore.
I'VE WATCHED THAT VIDEO IN A MILLION WOW VIDEOS OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS AND I NEVER NOTICED THE EYES.
There is a great irony comparing the freedom of Illidan to the freedom of the player-characters. Characters often only have the illusion of choice by the very structure of the game. Want to be involved in raiding? Then you've chosen your immutable role in the following cut-scene. Want to celebrate your defeat of Fyrakk? Then wait on these 12 tables. It may be meta, but free will is an illusion by design.
The titans idea of order is the Film Equilibrium
bro this cinematic gives me goosebumps every time
Illadan being a self-made Elf getting little upset on mommy Naru when she try to force him to do her plan. Personally His speech about 'we can only save our self' is a general good message.
There is a hint that Elune created Naaru also isn't Light is completely different entity power from Titans, am not talking about Naaru here 😒
Your speculation is stretching too much! The titans did not create the naaru! It's just that the light and arcane are in complete alignment with their goals. That's why they work together.
if you look at the two cosmological maps (titan vs broker).
the 6 forces are divided into two triangles of alignment.
broker map (based on healing/creation vs corruption/destruction).
=order(arcane)-life-light vs disorder(fel)-void-death
titan map (based of orderly forces vs chaotic forces).
=Order-light-death vs fel-void-life.
On both maps, light and arcane are completely allied with each other.
now, void & fel should have been allies but they are too chaotic by nature to do that.
This is one of the biggest issue I have with Pyro. I enjoy his speculation, but he focuses too much on Titans, which blinds him to other possibilities. The Amanthul controlling sargares with ruin magic is wild mainly because sarg wisped formed the ebtire pantheon shortly after Azeroth was ordered. We see their essence in legion. How would that be explained away? Unless blizz retcon it like usual. Similarly light, while in game it is shown via khadgar that the origin of the naruu is tied somehow to Elune, this link is never fully explained. Also, now that we know for sure Elune is a life based cosmic entity, how does it in any way links to a light based cosmic entity. Considering per chronicle that the clash of light and shadow created the entire reality as is, how would the pieces fit together if elune is the byproduct of that supposed clash.
@@Sean11194
With a micro 🐓 like your's, all 🐈 are considered stretched.
Oh and my mom is dead already (leukemia).
@@Sean11194sick pyro fans, can't even take criticism and starts attacking personal lol...grow up 🤦♂️
Every time I watch your videos I'm like "There's some truth in your theory, but most of it is crackhead energy"
@Pyro I listen to these when my wife makes me do the dishes and clean the kitchen. Now I can’t look at a dirty dish without thanking about WoW Lore haha Keep up the great work buddy. I love these videos 🙂
O M F G... you are playing the game the absolute right way we never knew. Do we trust in Blizzard that hard ? Are they really going for such a deep Story ? You know what ?! I am with you. I think they did.
Damn, never noticed Turalyon's Eye's before.
With the help of pyro I think the story IS there it’s always just the execution of the story that fails us. That and we can’t see the end goal so we take it all at face value. It reminds me of the early reception of the Star Wars prequels
If we can assume that Legion's storyline was laid out by Metzen before he left, which has been implicated, then Metzen coming back now means we'll be picking up where Legion left off essentially so yeah, it could be real good
9:30 i thought Sylvanas is about free will..
Illidan is more about sacrifice everything to achieve your goals.
With Illidans eyes...he see's demons differently right like that demon sense thing?
I wonder what he see's with the titans.
Like the only reason why I can think of them writing out illidan's "Destiny" is to secure their chances of beating Sargeras right?
So with this the titans might have "Short sighted" into the future with illidan and now trust him way too much for their own good, Illidan will come back to warn us. Has too.
Bro! I literally posted my concerns about illidin on your video from yesterday. My fear is with him being at the seat of the pantheon…. Which has domination runes etch into its flooring, that Sargaras will be decommissioned and the Titans will invoke their order on Illidin, he’s all alone and my dude will be overwhelmed. He will return in the last titan as a light forged, wearing domination runes much like Sargaras and Anduin. Also, I also believe with the decision to keep de-escalating the horde and alliance conflict that we are going to enter a new faction conflict come Midnight. Forget alliance vs Horde, we’re all going to be choosing light or void. That choice will come when Uyrl walks through the AU portal with the newly bolstered army of the light from a now desolate AU dranor. Midnight isn’t the fight of the void, but the crusade of the light and if Azeroth will succumb to the same outcome of present day AU dranor. Just ask the Mag’har orcs how that shit is going.
I noticed the light in Turalyon's eyes fading from the beginning, but one thing I would love to get your thoughts on is his facial expression when X'era wakes up and says that Illidan was the chosen one. Turalyon looks disappointed to hear that as he gestures for Illidan to come forth. I wanna know what THAT was about. Did he want to be that guy instead, or does he just have an issue with trusting Illidan of all people with being that guy?
What's sad to me is that Turalyon is an actual good person, or at least he was. Before he went to Draenor and ended up in the thousand year war. If he is corrupted or being controlled I hope he can break free.
Have you looked at the demon hunter’s tier set and compared it to Sargeras’ outfit? It looks a little too similar.
sooo glaaad that you are back :) I missed your wow videos
Turalyon looks just like Anduin when he was being controlled. Same eyes different color.
In Nelf lore. Their eyes predict their destiny. Golden eyes = dope. Silver eyes = normies.
And then malfurion came along....
I NEVER noticed the eye change!
I never noticed his eyes change.
And at the end of Legion, he himself chose to stay behind INSIDE THE TITAN PANTHEON to either guard or kill Sargeras. Who knows what the titans have done to Illidan while he has been there in the titans presence. So exactly how controlled could he have become?
Illidan has basically consume all fell magic from universe because when you slay a demon you consume its power that what I think of illidan power , for me he is the big boss of disorder now
It wouldn't surprise me if Alleria is leading the void incursion during midnight, and Turalyon is leading the light, and they will go against each other, Alleria dies (killed by Turalyon), and then Turalyon goes totally crazy and tries to lead the takeover of Azeroth by the light/titans, which would lead into the 3rd part of the saga.
The day will come when Blizzard will acknowledge Pyro for these theories.(Hopefully they won’t be pissed cuz u figured it out what the whole plan was😂)
To be fairly honest, since he came back and started doing these speculations i think he’s actually on top of the upcoming story.
Everything that he said i feel like is going to happen.
So if you’re reading this Pyro, thanks for coming back and actually making the whole story for us a little bit more interesting ✌🏻
I have always noticed that when Blizzard makes their cinematics, there are always little nuances that if one is not really watching, it will be missed. Just like Turalyon's eyes. I always have to watch them two or three times to see what it is I am missing and there is always something. They do this on purpose. To tell a story and give clues as to what is really going on.
It pains me that we've yet to reach the storytelling of Legion again. One of my most distinct wow memories was the absolute let down that Bfa was when I realized Legion was a lightning strike and wasn't likely to happen again.
That's cos Metzen left. He's back now
@ Pyromancer if this all of your and community theory crafting comes to be true I'm going to filp TF out. the details you pointing, and how it alls falls in to one piece- amazing man just amazing
Hey Pyro, how does fit MURU into all that. I'm not that deep into the lore but wasn MURU like a void Naruu that spawned Antropius? How does all that fit in with what we know today?
I saw the eyes changed and OMG, that was my first thought---this guy is a fanatic and he's going to do whatever his "light" tells him to do. I've been saying since this cinematic that Turalyon was trouble, I've been worried for the Alliance the entire time he's been in charge. I also don't trust his wife. But that whole thing, with you spelling it out along this whole thing, has cemented my beliefs that he's not a good guy, she's not good, and this whole thing is going to be a real problem in about 1 expansion or so.
Maybe a fight between Azeroth and the Army of the Light? Choose your side.
Illidan is The Jailer.
Wow the eye color change I never noticed. Makes sense so much sense with thr dragon eye colors then. But who is controlling Wrathion?
I have one question. So what Guldan sow before his death? Before Illidan kill him.
I always knew Illidan was a giga chad. My fav character in the whole game.
Sargeras - Eonar - Aman'Thul
Deathwing - Alexstrasza - Nozdormu
Illidan - Tyrande - Malfurion
Sylvanas - Alleria - Vereesa
Jaina - Anduin - Varian
??? - Alleria - Turalyon
Maybe their Illidan is Lothraxion? Definitely is not Arator.
Really hope they bring illidan back but also really hope they don't completely fuck his story up like they did with sylvanas
What if the Naaru are just ordered light and the true light wants people to have free will or at least fight for the world/azeroth. Therefore I think the golden eyes at birth are more symbolic because it seems the only way to have free will is to have power of light and void together (that's how fel was made). Azshara also seems to be of her own mind and we know that she was connected to the light at one point and now is a being of the old gods/void. Perhaps we will see a huge storyline with both Illidan and Azshara taking the reins and fighting the titans. Perhaps even the true light and void work together for once to free the universe that they created from the control of the titans which is why their champions would be people who have both light and void in them such as Illidan and Azshara and maybe Alleria to some extent.
"N'Zoth whispers: The Light has struck a bargain with the enemy of all."
I think they teamed up a long time ago unfortunately.
@@dirthamen5323 that could work too. Maybe they teamed up when the titans first started ordering the universe and the mortals are just becoming aware of it now
Am I cringe that I want everyone to be wrong and for the light to be a genuine good force that’s just manipulated by the titans.
can we say that Turalyon had been "tempered" by the light hmm
Hear me out.. While I agree the Naaru are probably Titans work and Titans pawn.. I am not sure about chosen one and "domination and mind control" so much.
Turalion's eye change color true.. But so they change in the beginning when Xe'ra gets "summoned or pieced up". .His eyes turn from Brown to Yellow, as they reverse after Xe'ra is broken.
Turalions actions also do not provide a "sane" behavior after she's destroyed or before she's even summoned. He's a fanatic before, during and after.
Do i think he's been brain washed? Yes..
Do i think he's been mind controlled or possessed or similar? No
can you do a comparison of Zeras voice and elunes voice?
if you are saying the narus are ordered by the titans then that means Elune is also ordered in a way. Either that or that she's in same league as the pantheon.
@justinb7494 yes but I said that because of this passage from wowpedia : "and Archmage Khadgar found in an ancient cosmology tome a passage indicating that the prime naaru may have been created by Elune during the great ordering of Light and Shadow". with the assumption that they may have been made by Elune, she must have been ordered in a way. why is it that we think the order, the light and life has always been in same league to defeat disorder and the void, idk!
@@permafrost93elune could have created the prime naarus and then the titans could have went and dominated them. we dont have a timeline but both those things could be true.
@@electricmayhem8147 yeah I agree, could be true yea
I think the last titan will be sargeras and at the end he and illidan will have to save everyone.
Might as well his bro Malfurion is useless.
Blizzard goi g forward needs to do more cinematics, and those said cinematics need to be far more than 3 minutes. The story is dope, but limiting it to 3 minutes doesn't do it justice.
The "Turalyon is a zealot" argument has zero backing or weight to it. He has shown nothing in game, short stories, or books to hint at that in the least. In fact the way he has operated the Alliance in the longest era of peace ever, the way Alleria and he navigated her being void touched if anything PROVES that he is not some zealot of the light.
What if Turalyon, brings Yrel from Draenor to Azeroth.
I YAM MY SCARS!
This guy is giving Blizzard writing and storytelling way more credits than they deserve...
Illidan is the GOAT
order is control and control is domination¿
Illidan is the GOAT of wow
Ah yes paradise lost esgy version