Two things I like to put to use when standing: Weighting the foot-pegs and keeping my elbows out. Also, riding an “adventure-bike” off-road, I quickly learned to leave the tankbag at home or use a smaller bag. It gets in the way.
You didn't mention gripping the bike with your knees in either of these videos. That's a tip that helped me greatly and many instructors says the same - interesting to hear why you didn't mention it? Awesome videos as always, Llel!
Excellent content! Thank you. I struggle with finding the right stranding position for different types of terrain. I am tall and find myself always wanting to stand straight up. I watched this several times and have saved it. Thank you.
Great video , again! Please would you upload some guidance on gear changing, up and down, when standing up? I find I am fixated and set the gear I feel to be about right, then just leave it there or sit down to change gear. This is far from ideal, so a little pointer or two would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Ride safe!
Very nicely broken down & clearly explained from each point of movement from the ankles up to the hips. Like someone else mentioned the dotted lines are very helpful to highlight the position. Lastly the video is a joy to watch, nicely filmed, well edited, well narrated, good tempo, it all comes across as a very professional lesson. Thanks!
Hi. Explain trottle control whilst standing. I tend to grip my handlebars to "hold on" while standing. This makes me grip bars, throttle, and I go jerky on throttle. How do I correct this please.
By dropping your heels, and working on the basic standing position. Generally it is a symptom of being too upright when standing and not being balanced. :)
Gripping with the feet and legs, pointing the toes forward inline with the bike and dropping the heels. When done correctly you should be able to control the handlebars with the lightest of grip.
These gents are spot on. As I’ve gotten older, my hands don’t take much over-gripping to get tingly. I’ve had to learn to really relax my hands, and it works toward better all-around position as well. Building up from the base with good foot, ankle, knee, and hip position to hold onto the bike and maintain balance, you can keep your hands really, truly light on the bars, even at a race pace. Once you understand that no one is strong enough to “hang on” to these hundred + horsepower dirt bikes, one tends to accept that if one has the sensation of hanging on, one needs to go back and evaluate the basics. About those, this presenter is spot on, as is Chris Birch. His Say No To Slow ADV series is dirt cheap and excellent.
I find gripping the tank/seat with my knees takes all the weight of my arms and handlebars. it allows for more weight control forward and backward as well.
Nice vid! And glad that youre not just another ‘straight to bar risers’ kinda instructor. Question: Doesnt that heels down foot position put a lot of strain and pressure on the achilles tendon and calf? The angles you looked like you were putting on your heels had me waiting for a snap 💥 at any moment
Any instruction that tells you bar risers are good isn't instruction 🤣🤣 It's compensation for poor technique at the point 🙄 Anyway, about the heels. You're only doing ypur ankle flexibility good by riding that way. The reason achilies tendons snap isn't due to being stretched but the opposite. You'll find if you start to ride like this ypur calves will adapt over time, a bit like if you do yoga. However you're no more likely to suffer and injury riding this way than normal. If you take a close look at the feet of most good moto and enduro riders they ride in the position. Same for moubtainbikes 🙂
Late to respond to this one but a question if I may: My 1200GSA LC had a perfect standing position (for me at 5’8”). I now have a KTM 890 Adventure which has much lower bars and closer to the rider. Did you change anything on the 890s you tested? I ask because my anticipated trip to to the TAT in 2024 will entail prolonged standing and this looks a tiring position. Many thanks, Ian
Nice video ,I have a f850gs I'm a tall rider at 6'3, I'm finding my right hand position difficult. I'm finding my balance no problem but finding it difficult to maintain good throttle and front brake control whilst standing. I dont have bar risers and havnt adjusted brake lever position as yet.
It's tough to say exactly what the problem is without seeing you ride however I would suggest that's more to do with how you're gripping the throttle. Generally, your throttle hand isn't static, it's regripping and moving a lot while riding. When I'm accelerating I typically use one finger over the brake and three fingers on the throttle to allow me to maintain good finesse, swapping back to two fingers on each for any situation where stronger braking may be needed or I don't need the same finesse. If you want a bit more direct feedback maybe check out my Patreon. I'm happy to provide as much detailed feedback as you want/need based off video of your riding. :) Hope that helped! www.pratreon.com/brakemagazine
I’m a mixed cyclist much into MTB and 6’3 too, and my bike frame is XL. Even so, my brake lever angles are more than 45 degrees downward relative to the horizontal plane. How are yours?
I find when riding downhill or in sand, I am leaning back such that I am pulling quite hard on the grips. I don't think that is good. You don't mention grip pull (or push). How do I correct that?
you should try gripping the seat with your knees as your heels are down and back on the pegs. frees your arms up completely and transfers your weight to the rear of the bike
Hey Dean, Fantastic question. I genuinely believe you can do it by learning on a bigger bike. The main opportunities small bikes give you are a) they're less intimidating and they can allow you to push your limits more through events and racing. However, a huge portion of dirt bike riders don't utilise those, and plenty of ADV bike only people are fantastic riders. I think if you follow some good instruction and practice enough you can learn to ride well on anything!
Your response is bullshit. Dirt bike riders have way better skills to handle a big adventure bike. You can't fake bad riding techniques on a dirt bike because you will be on your ass all the time.
@@LuckyNikitaBoba you can't fake them on an ADV bike off road either. Why is you're comment so agro? 🤣🤣 In my experience good riders have good skills. I've met trials riders, motocross riders and enduro riders that have been riding for years and were crap and and ADV only guys that were awesome. A good rider is a good rider and it doesn't matter where they learnt. I agree that it's much easier to learn some skills on a little bike if you compete a lot off-road you're obviously going improve very quickly but it's a bit less arbitrary than your comment suggest. Thanks for commenting.
Another great video, thanks. But when will someone edit one from the real world ??? I always ride two up with my wife (Cool, I do it on this exact same bike, except for the seat) and when we're not just cruising around the house, we are normaly fully loaded with luggages like when we go camping or when we're abroad on a self-guided trip into Ecuador's backroads. We've been doing it for two years now, more fun than fear or mishaps but is there something special I should know about two up adventuring ?
Anyone ever put a foot on a rear peg and one on a front peg? it's the same body position as standing on bicycle pedals. I call it horse stance. Works great on my Van Van 200 because the passenger pegs are in the perfect position for it. It makes shifting my weight for braking and accelerating 10x easier. Just need to get duplicate foot controls back there and we're all set for super surf style stability and control. Why isn't this already a thing? Try it before replying.
@@BrakeMagazine Sure. I'm fairly arthritic, so I'm used to finding "out of the box" ways to move and do things to level the playing field. It's just instinctive to place one foot back when pushed backward. Try it, stand face to face with someone with both of your feet together. Then have them try to push you over. Now repeat the same thing with your strong leg one pace behind you. Think Tae Kwon Do. It greatly reduces the need for preemptive Segway Scooter type Jedi foresight of front to rear balancing forces when your legs are already braced in a structurally sound position, thus allowing your hands to operate controls free from operator induced oscillations. Really, try it.
@@Jim0i0 If you find ways that work for you and your own physique then that's awesome. it's really common that people have mobility issues that need working around. Ankle, hamstring and hips are all very regular occurrences. The one thing I would say, is that it might affect your ability to event steer left and right and stay balanced in technical terrain. Can't be sure though. Lastly, you don't need Jedi like reflexes if you're in a good basic position. That's what the hip hinge does. Think of Mtb riders. In my MTB experience the pedals and cranks being backward and forward aren't involved in whether you're balanced or not, it's the exact same position as I talk about here :) I'll give it a go at some point!
I'm sorry, but the GS1200 600lbs+ motorcycle shouldn't be the first bike to learn ”basic” offroad riding techniques. This is stupid. If you want to become a better adventure bike rider, learn on a real dirt bike first. Any motorcycle that weighs over 600lbs is a shitty dirt bike.
Regardless of which bike people have access to, the techniques are similar. For those that have adventure bikes to learn on, then there's no problem with this. If people only have a dirt bike to learn on, then these skills are transferable. In addition, the 249KG bike feels weightless if you know how to ride it well. Instead of being damning and arbitrary how about we try and be a little bit inclusive of people that just wanna enjoy riding their bikes.
Alot of people make these links between adventure bikes and dirt bikes but its actually a falsehood. The adventure bikes are really a riding class on their own, they have traits of both road and dirt bikes, but they are a different thing. If adventure riding and touring on a big bike is what you want to do, then learn it on the bike that you intend to do it on.
I actually have gained some skills not even on a dirt bike, but on a mountain bike. But the quantum leap to a motorcycle, especially a 600lb ADV moto, is just so unique much of those skills are very hard to transfer. Need to start at the basics on the big motorcycle just like the video says. And pray, lol
I found it way better to learn on an Africa Twin, I learned in my bike and then when I went to a dirt bike it was like riding on easy mode. Had multiple instructors ask how long I'd been riding because I looked confident... I wasn't but light bikes are so much easier. Riding big adventure bikes made my track riding a lot better too.
@@1egal1Liph Not so different :) . The attack position, the rowing, getting the weight back for downhill, getting weight forward for uphill, weight outside for turning, light the front for obstacles... The principle is the same.
Two things I like to put to use when standing: Weighting the foot-pegs and keeping my elbows out. Also, riding an “adventure-bike” off-road, I quickly learned to leave the tankbag at home or use a smaller bag. It gets in the way.
Yup. Footpeg weighting is a conplex topic I've got planned down the line 🤣🤣
Totally agree on the tank bag. It's crap when stood up 😅
This stuff is gold-dust! Thanks. Les
Glad it helps Leslie!
You didn't mention gripping the bike with your knees in either of these videos. That's a tip that helped me greatly and many instructors says the same - interesting to hear why you didn't mention it? Awesome videos as always, Llel!
Same Peter, and when I put on a taller seat and lower pegs on my T7 theres much more bike to grip with my legs, and that’s made a huge difference.
Buy the Chris Birch training series if you want an in depth detailed explanation of this subject
Another really helpful lesson. I have a long way to go, but these lessons point me the right way.
Glad it helps Brad! Enjoy the process!
Minitip....more like a very generous tip. Thank you so much. Awesome video and I see what I am doing wrong. I will practice these techniques for sure!
Glad they help Michael! I promise some of them are smaller 🤣🤣
Glad you're back, great content as always!
Thank Greg!
Excellent content! Thank you. I struggle with finding the right stranding position for different types of terrain. I am tall and find myself always wanting to stand straight up. I watched this several times and have saved it. Thank you.
This is definitely the best advice I have seen on UA-cam..... Llel knows his stuff.....
Awww Mike! Thanks mate.
How tall are you Dave?
@@BrakeMagazine I am 6'3"
Great video , again! Please would you upload some guidance on gear changing, up and down, when standing up? I find I am fixated and set the gear I feel to be about right, then just leave it there or sit down to change gear. This is far from ideal, so a little pointer or two would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Ride safe!
Hey Henry, sure we can. It's pretty common question when learning. 🙂
Perfect explanation. Thank you.
love your lessons, and the graphics. the graphics really help show me what to do. thanks and ride safe.
Glad you like them!
A lot like the mountain bike "attack position".
Yup. Basically the same.
I thought the same. As a long time mountain biker but very new to riding a motorcycle off-road there’s a lot of crossover.
Very much so. I think in a lot of ways a MTB is harder to ride well because you're so much of the weight package.
In full off road/motocross, it's called the same thing..... "attack position"....
@@michaelcaton9358 Should be called the 'I'm going so fast I've just shit myself' position 😂
So glad that You are back with great and idiotproof explanations
Absolutely love these lessons. Thanks so much.
I went to dirt bike class. Standing position was so hard to me. Moving back and forth was not easy. I have to practice more.
Try and replicate those movement patterns off the bike and on a stand. It'll help :)
Very nicely broken down & clearly explained from each point of movement from the ankles up to the hips. Like someone else mentioned the dotted lines are very helpful to highlight the position. Lastly the video is a joy to watch, nicely filmed, well edited, well narrated, good tempo, it all comes across as a very professional lesson. Thanks!
I'm really glad it was helpful! Thanks for the kind words and for watching!
Hi. Explain trottle control whilst standing. I tend to grip my handlebars to "hold on" while standing. This makes me grip bars, throttle, and I go jerky on throttle. How do I correct this please.
By dropping your heels, and working on the basic standing position. Generally it is a symptom of being too upright when standing and not being balanced. :)
Gripping with the feet and legs, pointing the toes forward inline with the bike and dropping the heels. When done correctly you should be able to control the handlebars with the lightest of grip.
These gents are spot on. As I’ve gotten older, my hands don’t take much over-gripping to get tingly. I’ve had to learn to really relax my hands, and it works toward better all-around position as well. Building up from the base with good foot, ankle, knee, and hip position to hold onto the bike and maintain balance, you can keep your hands really, truly light on the bars, even at a race pace. Once you understand that no one is strong enough to “hang on” to these hundred + horsepower dirt bikes, one tends to accept that if one has the sensation of hanging on, one needs to go back and evaluate the basics. About those, this presenter is spot on, as is Chris Birch. His Say No To Slow ADV series is dirt cheap and excellent.
I find gripping the tank/seat with my knees takes all the weight of my arms and handlebars. it allows for more weight control forward and backward as well.
Nice vid! And glad that youre not just another ‘straight to bar risers’ kinda instructor. Question: Doesnt that heels down foot position put a lot of strain and pressure on the achilles tendon and calf? The angles you looked like you were putting on your heels had me waiting for a snap 💥 at any moment
Any instruction that tells you bar risers are good isn't instruction 🤣🤣 It's compensation for poor technique at the point 🙄
Anyway, about the heels. You're only doing ypur ankle flexibility good by riding that way. The reason achilies tendons snap isn't due to being stretched but the opposite. You'll find if you start to ride like this ypur calves will adapt over time, a bit like if you do yoga.
However you're no more likely to suffer and injury riding this way than normal. If you take a close look at the feet of most good moto and enduro riders they ride in the position. Same for moubtainbikes 🙂
Thank you for great tips. I am getting an R1250GS this December, next week to be exact
Have fun!
@@LuckyNikitaBoba 😂😂am laughing back, been doing offroad biking for 2 years. Even attended Motorrad Courses on Offroad
Late to respond to this one but a question if I may: My 1200GSA LC had a perfect standing position (for me at 5’8”). I now have a KTM 890 Adventure which has much lower bars and closer to the rider. Did you change anything on the 890s you tested? I ask because my anticipated trip to to the TAT in 2024 will entail prolonged standing and this looks a tiring position. Many thanks, Ian
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Nice video ,I have a f850gs I'm a tall rider at 6'3, I'm finding my right hand position difficult.
I'm finding my balance no problem but finding it difficult to maintain good throttle and front brake control whilst standing.
I dont have bar risers and havnt adjusted brake lever position as yet.
It's tough to say exactly what the problem is without seeing you ride however I would suggest that's more to do with how you're gripping the throttle. Generally, your throttle hand isn't static, it's regripping and moving a lot while riding. When I'm accelerating I typically use one finger over the brake and three fingers on the throttle to allow me to maintain good finesse, swapping back to two fingers on each for any situation where stronger braking may be needed or I don't need the same finesse.
If you want a bit more direct feedback maybe check out my Patreon. I'm happy to provide as much detailed feedback as you want/need based off video of your riding. :) Hope that helped!
www.pratreon.com/brakemagazine
I’m a mixed cyclist much into MTB and 6’3 too, and my bike frame is XL. Even so, my brake lever angles are more than 45 degrees downward relative to the horizontal plane. How are yours?
I find when riding downhill or in sand, I am leaning back such that I am pulling quite hard on the grips. I don't think that is good. You don't mention grip pull (or push). How do I correct that?
By hinging and finding the balance point. 😊
you should try gripping the seat with your knees as your heels are down and back on the pegs. frees your arms up completely and transfers your weight to the rear of the bike
Do u have to be a good dirt bike rider to be a good off road adventure rider or can I start on an adventure bike such as the ktm 790 (not my 1st bike)
Hey Dean,
Fantastic question. I genuinely believe you can do it by learning on a bigger bike. The main opportunities small bikes give you are a) they're less intimidating and they can allow you to push your limits more through events and racing.
However, a huge portion of dirt bike riders don't utilise those, and plenty of ADV bike only people are fantastic riders. I think if you follow some good instruction and practice enough you can learn to ride well on anything!
@@BrakeMagazine thanks mate appreciate the reply and il take that on board.
Your response is bullshit. Dirt bike riders have way better skills to handle a big adventure bike. You can't fake bad riding techniques on a dirt bike because you will be on your ass all the time.
@@LuckyNikitaBoba you can't fake them on an ADV bike off road either. Why is you're comment so agro? 🤣🤣
In my experience good riders have good skills. I've met trials riders, motocross riders and enduro riders that have been riding for years and were crap and and ADV only guys that were awesome. A good rider is a good rider and it doesn't matter where they learnt.
I agree that it's much easier to learn some skills on a little bike if you compete a lot off-road you're obviously going improve very quickly but it's a bit less arbitrary than your comment suggest. Thanks for commenting.
Nice flat back, looks like the same technique as a back squat or deadlift to me.....
Exactly Michael Caton. Do you lift bro? 😏
@@BrakeMagazine yeah bro, just a bit.... helps with riding position and bike fitness....
❤
Another great video, thanks. But when will someone edit one from the real world ??? I always ride two up with my wife (Cool, I do it on this exact same bike, except for the seat) and when we're not just cruising around the house, we are normaly fully loaded with luggages like when we go camping or when we're abroad on a self-guided trip into Ecuador's backroads. We've been doing it for two years now, more fun than fear or mishaps but is there something special I should know about two up adventuring ?
Anyone ever put a foot on a rear peg and one on a front peg? it's the same body position as standing on bicycle pedals. I call it horse stance. Works great on my Van Van 200 because the passenger pegs are in the perfect position for it. It makes shifting my weight for braking and accelerating 10x easier. Just need to get duplicate foot controls back there and we're all set for super surf style stability and control. Why isn't this already a thing? Try it before replying.
Can I ask why you find it easier? The way bikes have developed I have no doubt someone has tried it. 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine Sure. I'm fairly arthritic, so I'm used to finding "out of the box" ways to move and do things to level the playing field. It's just instinctive to place one foot back when pushed backward. Try it, stand face to face with someone with both of your feet together. Then have them try to push you over. Now repeat the same thing with your strong leg one pace behind you. Think Tae Kwon Do. It greatly reduces the need for preemptive Segway Scooter type Jedi foresight of front to rear balancing forces when your legs are already braced in a structurally sound position, thus allowing your hands to operate controls free from operator induced oscillations. Really, try it.
@@Jim0i0 If you find ways that work for you and your own physique then that's awesome.
it's really common that people have mobility issues that need working around. Ankle, hamstring and hips are all very regular occurrences.
The one thing I would say, is that it might affect your ability to event steer left and right and stay balanced in technical terrain. Can't be sure though.
Lastly, you don't need Jedi like reflexes if you're in a good basic position. That's what the hip hinge does. Think of Mtb riders.
In my MTB experience the pedals and cranks being backward and forward aren't involved in whether you're balanced or not, it's the exact same position as I talk about here :)
I'll give it a go at some point!
I'm sorry, but the GS1200 600lbs+ motorcycle shouldn't be the first bike to learn ”basic” offroad riding techniques. This is stupid. If you want to become a better adventure bike rider, learn on a real dirt bike first. Any motorcycle that weighs over 600lbs is a shitty dirt bike.
Regardless of which bike people have access to, the techniques are similar. For those that have adventure bikes to learn on, then there's no problem with this. If people only have a dirt bike to learn on, then these skills are transferable. In addition, the 249KG bike feels weightless if you know how to ride it well. Instead of being damning and arbitrary how about we try and be a little bit inclusive of people that just wanna enjoy riding their bikes.
Alot of people make these links between adventure bikes and dirt bikes but its actually a falsehood. The adventure bikes are really a riding class on their own, they have traits of both road and dirt bikes, but they are a different thing. If adventure riding and touring on a big bike is what you want to do, then learn it on the bike that you intend to do it on.
I actually have gained some skills not even on a dirt bike, but on a mountain bike. But the quantum leap to a motorcycle, especially a 600lb ADV moto, is just so unique much of those skills are very hard to transfer. Need to start at the basics on the big motorcycle just like the video says. And pray, lol
I found it way better to learn on an Africa Twin, I learned in my bike and then when I went to a dirt bike it was like riding on easy mode. Had multiple instructors ask how long I'd been riding because I looked confident... I wasn't but light bikes are so much easier.
Riding big adventure bikes made my track riding a lot better too.
@@1egal1Liph Not so different :) . The attack position, the rowing, getting the weight back for downhill, getting weight forward for uphill, weight outside for turning, light the front for obstacles... The principle is the same.