The two first «aha»’s I had when learning to ride on gravel roads was that its okay to sit (I was standing all the time and it was exhausting when riding for hours. Especially at 6’5, I was in the most extreme attack position you can imagine). The next thing I then learned was that one can utilize a lot more body movement while sitting than you actually think. Sit far forward, elbows out, being active. It made a huge difference in my ability to ride fast(er😅) on gravel. Excellent video as always.
Standing looks stupid and amateurish when traversing a graded gravel road. There is absolutely no benefit unless the road is sandy or exceedingly loose. Save your energy.
I would LOVE to ride the roads in this video. All the gravel I ride is steep washboard with 180-degree switchbacks. Seeing 2nd gear is a rare treat. Lol
Thanks! I have a '22 KTM SAS...with the stock Mitas Terraforce tires. She doesn't do bad on gravel, but I am also an 'offroad' noob. Today I did a 20 mile ride on gravel to see a small waterfall here in the Ozarks. 90/10 tires were a bit sketch but I started to relax and it did go better. What unnerved me was some of the sections were very steep downhill with deep gravel. Keeping my vision down the road really did help.
My first time on gravel roads a few weeks ago in Central Oregon, I had to navigate brand new gravel with no tire paths through it. It was all new and felt like riding on ball bearings. My GSA was constantly moving underneath me. I did fine until I started a slalom wabble that sent me down. I was able to slow down to about 25km/hr. I think I was transitioning from standing to sitting when it started. I'm not sure because it happened fast. After that, I slowed down and didn't go down again. Quite an initiation!
I'm a bit nervous about getting out of my driveway and the gravel road to the paved road. At age 75 I got a bike. Haven't ridden for 40 years. So, you can understand my nervousness maybe. That's my reasons for watching this video. I have taken a two day refresher course. It's required where I live; WA State, US. I think it will be no problem. Cheers !!
@@easyonenow Thanks mate !! Problem is, I love twisting the throttle. It's the most powerful bike I've ever had. I'm riding chill mostly though. Cheers!!
@@jeffreyyeater1780 I posted my initial comment 8 months ago. I've done a lot of riding since then. I still don't like dirt roads but they no longer freak me out. Loose gravel or sand might be another matter. I had an epic camping trip at the Makah nation, on an ocean beach. Cheers !!
Another great video! Your content is always very clear and you get to the point! I find your channel very helpful and the information is very relevant to me. Thanks for putting out the videos!
I am mostly a street rider who likes long distance touring two-up on a BMW K1600. Inevitably we run into construction, and with Murphy’s Law, it will be raining turning the construction zone into a bumpy muddy mess. A video on how to deal with that scenario would be good. I actually do 4 of your suggestions (trail braking, etc) but body position gives me a problem with two of us on the bike.
Gravel can be downright scary with street pressure in your tires. A few pounds less can mean the difference between hooking up and skating over the surface.
Yep, surprised this wasn't one of the tips, literally anyone will be a better rider in gravel by lowering pressure a bit, and that goes for any tire, street, knobby, ADV, doesn't matter.
Im OK with gravel roads but where i struggle is blind corners where you have to go wide and the outside car track has more gravel on it and is off camber. A video on this would be fantastic.
On gravelroads you usually dont have speedsigns as you do on tarmac... so its more difficult to know what is reasonable speed... Also it depends on weather and road condition... which takes experience to judge... And dealing with front or back skidding out is hard on the nerves in the beginning... On tarmac everything is tight and controlled... On gravel everything slips and slides... Fun but fear-inducing as well... Coming from a vfr 800 to crf 250 l 😉
What a great communicator, great thinking, beautiful delivery. Have been riding for 35yrs (OMG where did that time go) and still love to hear these ideas explained simply. Agree about tall gears, allows the bike to be super smooth - and it so rarely comes up in technique discussions. Thanks heaps
My tip is to burn up as much gas as possible. I'm thankful that I have thousands of miles of dirt roads to ride.. My AT is a awesome bike to have in my neck of the woods.
@@BrakeMagazine I just finished a refresher course on how to ride a bike safely. I recall being taught the importance of matching the gear to the bike speed. That's important for what you are concerned about. Practice, practice, practice. Cheers!
I hope this message still reaches you: What would you recommend how to ride down a gravel road with lots of potholes in it? Then halfway down I must navigate right to enter my driveway. Motor is a (heavy) Suzuki Vstrom 1050 XT. Before I had a Kawasaki SX1000 but that was real drama. I fell twice already with these bikes. Any advice is very welcome.
I ride almost exclusively on gravel. My GS in Enduro mode performs best (for me) at higher RPM. Riding in higher gears causes the engine to lug in many situations. I'm of the mind that you should never lug the engine, so I always ride at high RPM. This also makes engine braking a lot more predictable.
@@BrakeMagazine let's see: detonation, higher engine temperature, cylinder damage. You're basically forcing your engine to work harder than it should have to .
Most if not all my dirt road travel is loose gravel roads. It is tricky to ride. Straight lines, no problem, around corners (how slow can I go and stay upright). I'd love to ride "dirt roads" but most of the dirt roads here are dirt and loose gravel (especially in corners - for some reason). It's the loose gravel roads that I watched this vid and you say to stay away from it, so................
Riding on hardpac like this can be a little sketchy... Scary is fresh gravel like FSR's in the N ga mountains. Fresh, loose gravel is like snot for two wheels...
I live in Kenya where all roads are gravel. I never treat it differently than any other road surface. I’ve never envisioned gravel to be any different than tarmac except that you lean your body the other way going around a corner. What everyone’s hangup is about gravel I’ve never understood. Just ride! Gravel is not slippery!
You grew up with it, probably did the 10000 hours riding along and then behind the bars, so you reached the “genius level” where it is second nature. I did my time on snow and ice, in Sweden, in a car and a bicycle, so snow and ice doesn’t bother me, but someone new to that surface will suffer. I am a beginner on a motorbike though so appreciate this video. Kenya looks like a nice place to ride.
@@kristofferrydquist8384 Kenya is pretty much the perfect place to ride. Trails everywhere, fantastic destinations, no cops, friendly people, great weather. I’m going around the lake next month; Uganda Rwanda Congo and Tanzania before I come home to Kenya. Life is short…just ride!
Problem is if you own a KTM like the 890, it's just so much fun to be sideways and spinning the rear at every opportunity. especially when trying to destroy the stock tyres so you can get something good on there. Could just be KTM riders are hooligans though.
I think being in high gears/low rpms is a great way to learn to be a better driver also on the tarmac. Not only does it make the bike behave a little less nervous but you also notice your mistakes much easier as the recovery is slower as opposed to being able to compensate with a twist of throttle and quick power in the lower gears.
I've been riding a lot of gravel roads lately overseas and am really struggling with the off camber corners at speed, trying to avoid ending up in the bushes lol. I haven't really thought of using a tall gear because I get worried it's too much strain on my engine when going slow, my bike cruises at 4k rpm, but if I was on the gravel cornering in 3rd gear slowly, it seems like my rpm would be 2k or less and would sound like it's straining. Is this okay for the bike? (1190 r)
@@BrakeMagazine there is a bunch of them here and many are beautiful, 16 026km paved and 53 634km gravel/unpaved, varies a bit depending on source, in a relatively small country. and all types of them, from small forest type with deep ditches on the side to wide straight ones you _can_ do 160kmph + (its illegal, legal limit is 80 kmph and police generally tolerate some 20~30 more, but not guaranteed)
they cover it on the BMW level 1 course ! You are not going to learn it by watching a video ! Go and buy the course, it’s fun and the instruction is amongst the world’s best.
hmm, depending on the bike and it's particular EFI implementation, riding in a higher gear in lower revs might lead to more engine cut offs and thus throttle snatchiness.
@@BrakeMagazine well, on my V Strom 650 (2019), if I am in say 3rd gear at about 30 kph (I think that's about 2-3k RPM) the throttle response is very snatchy, as soon as I let if off a bit and then rev a small ammount, and I do mean small, the engine splurts and the bike jerks forward. I always thought that's the EFI coming back to life, abruptly. And no, I am not stalling it, I know how that feels. If I gear down to 2nd and go to 3-4k rpm then it's fine. Of course that could be me having a "car mentality" and thinking it's normal to stay that low in the rpm :)
Thanks Lel - again, great video and great advice! Would be great if you could do training with small groups or do even 1-2-1’s… Greetings from Lake Constance, Jörn
Young Grasshoppers if your out in the bush on the dirt ask yourself why, it's about traveling through country. It changes all the time its beuttiful ,slow down heaps most riders are up shit creek because of speed
Hi Lell, thanks for a great mini tip Monday. I am really struggling to change gear in the standing position, particularly up changes, do you have any magic hints that might help please? 🏍🏍👍👍
It might help to raise the position of the shift lever to get your boot under more easily. Conversely, if it's too high, it will be awkward to left the front of your foot enough without forcing you to lift off the peg. Also, consider an adjustable lever for it. Some people have big feet and boots that sick out. Others have tiny feet that barely reach. Manufacturers chose an acceptable mid ground. It's possible your shifting mechanisms are worn out, many needing a new spider gear or pins ect to more positively snap into each gear. Just like downshifting, it is a decisive motion but not forceful. If you are mushy with it, it won't shift consistently, so make sure you make a definite travel with your foot. It could also be a bad angle of interaction with your boot, such as riding on the front curve where half the time the other slips and only moves halfway. (Again fixed with an adjustable lever...or a different boot)
Do you have any advice for dealing with freshly laid gravel patches? Example riding on hard packed gravel where you can get some speed and then all of a sudden is 6 to 10 cm deep freshly laid gravel where the front end wants to dance out from under you.
Panic, pray to God and close your eyes! I joke. Generally I would try to move my weight backward and keep some trailing throttle even if I'm trying to slow down I think. I'll have to have a think about it!
@@BrakeMagazine thanks for the reply! Yeah third time on gravel with the big bike (150 miles over two days), off road event where 95% of others were on dirt bikes (called Adventure Palooza). Was getting in the groove, then second day a lot deeper gravel and I lost my nerve big time. Sphincter puckering for sure.
One of the riding tips is to shift your body weight to the outside of the curve. This naturally causes the bike to lean even more than necessary- more lean means less tire patch contact. Less tire contact patch means increase risk of slipping out! Why wouldn't you shift some weight to the inside of the corner to help keep the bike standing up as much as possible?
It's not about size of the contact patch but where the force is on the tyre. This isn't my invention, this is widely accepted as the correct technique. When you try to keep the bike upright an lean off the inside you unweight the tyres and push them away. Try it, you'll feel what I mean when you ride. It's why you never see good off road riders or mtb riders hang off the inside of the bike.
@@BrakeMagazine But don't you find it odd the track racers diligently lean IN on the curves so the bike can stand UP (more vertical). This supposedly gives better tire contact and allows more lean/faster cornering, as I understand it. Leaning outward on a dirt corner seems a lot safer for me since if the tires slip out, you have a chance at not being crushed under the bike! Isn't this the main reason? Some say better visibility too from the upright position rather than from leaning inward and downward. Thanks for your videos- I find them very instructive and well thought out!
@@billroberts9182 not at all. It's a question of physics and trying to understand grip coefficient. Canadian Channel Fort nine just explained this really well but I will try to here. It has nothing to do with the bike not falling on you or looking further round the corner. When you ride on a track we ask different things and control the bike in different ways. One things that is consistent in footpeg pressure. Even when track riders hang off, they still pressure outside peg to push the tyre into the ground as best, especially when accelerating. They use their own mass to encourage the bike around the corner but are relying on a high grip coefficient to stop the tyres sliding too much. The 'keeping the bike upright' is primarily about acceleration. They run extreme lean angles up to 60 degrees matched with high forward momentum. That allows the tyres to stick in a way they physically can't off road. Off road we have none of that. Low grip coefficient and far lower speeds means we need to generate more grip mechanically by forcing the tyre into the ground using our weight and gravity. If you lean off the inside you can't push the tyre down enough to stick and you will struggle to have grip and feel confident. The slower you ride the more this matters as we loose the benefits of forward momentum and typically off road riding is significantly slower than on road. We also control the bike using footpeg pressure rather than counter steering and stand up a lot. It's impossible to hang off the inside while standing and weight the outside peg. Good question but you're gonna have to trust me and the thousands and thousands of riders way better than me who do it the same way off road and lean in on road 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine Well thank you for your answer! I know it is complicated, and I will have to trust your experience and the thousands of others as well. When I turn a dirt corner, I'm very careful about losing traction. I've done so on mountain bikes and I don't want to do it on a 600 lb. ADV motobike! When this Covid dies down, I'm hoping to come visit my ancestor's homeland- Wales.
make a video on how to store/carry your camera gear during off road rides . I am scared to carry them in a backpack so, do you have any good solution ?
I don't sorry. I think you could use a Peli case or something similar. You can mount those like a top box. I worry about the camera bouncing around on the bike so I use a backpack. The one I have is very good. It's called a Shimoda Explore 40 and the cameras are quite protected in it but riding with a back is hard. At least I find it hard 🤣
Applying front brake when turning on loose surface sounds a bit dangerous to me. What happens if the front wheel blocks for a moment? Instant crash or can easily save?
If you ease off the brake you won't crash, but you also won't lock the front wheel if you do it how we are saying. Watch our last Minitip Monday on Trail Braking. 🙂
When the gravel is new and deep you basically have to slow down. The bike is going to track where it's going to track. Stay loose and don't go heavy on the brakes
I love these videos but how the hell do you get to use these roads ? I live in South Wales and every forestry road like this is strictly forbidden to ride motorbikes quads 4×4s I'd absolutely love to ride these ! HOW ?? I need to know 🤯
I don’t think this video implies any bias at all towards BMW. It’s clearly a video about riding larger bikes on gravel roads. The BMW is a big adv bike. Sure you could use other bikes but it’s not like they’re going out of their way to sell you a BMW. Keep up the good work Lel, excellent content - ignore Poole like this. Longish time subscriber and enjoy your videos. Thanks Lel..
That completely depends on tyres. A lot of modern ADV tyres don't work very well at conventional pressures and perform better at closer to road pressure.
@@BrakeMagazine Everyone rides different but braking in the corner would cause loss of traction from the rear wheel. It would be better to just come off the throttle.
@@TankToChest Well, not really. The rear brake pulls the wheel toward the ground and it's only a problem under hard braking. Just rolling off the throttle creates a host of problems I cover in this video
That ride everywhere in 4th gear on a GS (although probably overly generalised), is a huge tip for me. I’ve been doing gravel tracks in 2nd most of the time.
Great tips. I just can add, when you get scared-stand up, when you start loosing traction-stand up, when you are not sure how deep the puddle is -stand up 😀 At least that works for me.
Body positioning is soooo important on these big bikes. It needs to be exaggerated. ELBOWS! are so important and that starts with the way you grip the handlebars etc. Need to stay in front of these big bikes. If you ride behind the balance point or tugg on the bars, you're going to have issues. Good vid!
Love your good dirt roads. In Australia our gravel roads are just that, full of gravel. Our councils just dump and flatten it. After a few days there are furrows, corrugation and mounds, just lovely to ride in and occasionally lie down. I found being an active sitter on long rides saves my knees. In technical stuff I do all the active moving when standing. Oh, I ride a modified DR650 and gave the larger bikes away.
Congrats on 50k! I’m not the best rider but was shown these tips by better riders and did a lot of them. At Baja Rally I passed about 7 riders on those types of roads where I could. Most of them went 50-60 and I was on the 990 and was familiar with the roads.
Great advice! I love a gravel road! While I've 20years experience of track, enduro and motocross, almost nothing beats a fast, sinuous piece of gravel - true flow! I've the same GS as yours here and loving it on the gravel with TKC80s. Such a capable bike. I'd also add that quick shifters really help you stay smooth and nicely weighted as you ride in a high gear. Also, really scan near and far for surface changes - hitting deep sand-filled holes in an otherwise hardback/gravel trail can be disastrous... I've got prior!
theres not a single gravel road in this entire video. its all just rocky dirt roads. try riding on the ball-bearing strewn field that is red gravel in australia.
A really good instructive video. One criticism - I'd suggest not riding anywhere near as close to another rider as shown in the video. If the rider in front comes off, meets an oncoming vehicle on a corner or, for example, is 'collected by a kangaroo - then the rider behind may well also be involved in an accident. Also, it means that both riders are distracted by the need to also consider the other rider - thereby distracting their 100% concentration on the road. When riding with a mate on gravel roads I always give them at least a five second leeway and, if dust is an issue, sometimes several hundred metres ... or more.
This is a great discussion. The other major benefit to exiting a corner in a tall gear is having the RPM headroom so you can spin the rear down the entire straight and not run out of gear. ;-)
Great vid - I posted the link in a bunch of facebook groups - so hopefully a bunch of traffic coming into your channel :) Great to hear the basics, no matter how long you've been riding :)
it all depends on your bike, tires and mostly skill level.. I've done 100 on a Harley and been scared shitless at 40 on a MX bike :) going straight, with a steady throttle isn't the issue.. it's the braking/ corners that'll get you!
All very good tips. The tall gear (high gear) tip is a good one, and same goes for driving a car in deep snow. A low gear creates too much power, causing the wheels to be more likely to spin or skid, while a high gear makes your power inputs more gradual, thus smoothing things out. I rode a cruiser for 10 years, have now begun riding an ADV bike, and the gravel roads are fun and an interesting learning experience.
around 8.40 you mention using a taller gear, what about when you are in a steep incline, would it be better to use a lower gear and engine braking or keep high and use the brakes to control descent speeds, especially if there are lots of tight corners?
Good tips, but didn't mention throttle control when cornering. What are your thoughts, adjusting speed before entering the corner and then just with the throttle slightly open just to maintain speed and balance weight between front and rear until the exit?
I have a question that why we don't stand up on enduro bikes whereas on adv bikes,we stand up?because ive seen most of dirt bike riders sit on bike while riding offroad.
That's a complex question. The simplest answer is it gives you more control because the bike is heavier than you. Also, it's not true that dirt bike riders sit down more. When you ride enduro you really only sit to go around corners fast. Everything else will be stood up.
Also long flat seat on enduro bikes means you get get really far forward while seated. Adv bike heavier and scooped seat with big tank in the way, so to have the same effect on front tyre you need stand. enduro bikes you can have that amount of influence while seated - you get further forward of coe and they lighter
Not enduro, but beware or motocross tips, as they go around mostly banked corners and nicely graded dirt so will learn with their bikes rather weight the outside peg like adventure riders.
@@BrakeMagazine it looks like it does a fantastic job at that! Not to mention its super sweet looking, I'm thinking thats the one I'm gonna try and snag
The two first «aha»’s I had when learning to ride on gravel roads was that its okay to sit (I was standing all the time and it was exhausting when riding for hours. Especially at 6’5, I was in the most extreme attack position you can imagine). The next thing I then learned was that one can utilize a lot more body movement while sitting than you actually think. Sit far forward, elbows out, being active. It made a huge difference in my ability to ride fast(er😅) on gravel.
Excellent video as always.
For sure! Such a good point!
I agree! Everyone says stand up but I ride more comfortably and faster in the sitting position
Standing looks stupid and amateurish when traversing a graded gravel road. There is absolutely no benefit unless the road is sandy or exceedingly loose. Save your energy.
@@MrZog-yv3be I mean, sounds like you know best dude. 🤣
Standing is fun, I’d like to add.
I would LOVE to ride the roads in this video. All the gravel I ride is steep washboard with 180-degree switchbacks. Seeing 2nd gear is a rare treat. Lol
Those are great tips and keeping it to 5 is not overwhelming. Nicely explained with helpful graphics. Thank you!
You did a good job of explaining the joys of drifting gravel on a good day!
This channel gives down-to-earth, pragmatic advice which is rare. Very valuable and very crisply presented.
Thanks Bob!
Thanks! I have a '22 KTM SAS...with the stock Mitas Terraforce tires. She doesn't do bad on gravel, but I am also an 'offroad' noob. Today I did a 20 mile ride on gravel to see a small waterfall here in the Ozarks. 90/10 tires were a bit sketch but I started to relax and it did go better. What unnerved me was some of the sections were very steep downhill with deep gravel. Keeping my vision down the road really did help.
My first time on gravel roads a few weeks ago in Central Oregon, I had to navigate brand new gravel with no tire paths through it. It was all new and felt like riding on ball bearings. My GSA was constantly moving underneath me. I did fine until I started a slalom wabble that sent me down. I was able to slow down to about 25km/hr. I think I was transitioning from standing to sitting when it started. I'm not sure because it happened fast. After that, I slowed down and didn't go down again. Quite an initiation!
The switchbacks on gravel roads are what messes me up. LoL. Always feel slow.
Thanks for the lessons. I will definitely be incorporating them into my next ride.
Happy Trails
No problem Allen! Hope they help!
Excellent advice! There’s a lot of videos about this topic, but this is an especially good one.
Trail braking was a new one for me, I'll give it a go. Thanks!
Thanks you for making the time to teach. I learned again.
Best wishes from (the fun side of) Colorado.
I'm a bit nervous about getting out of my driveway and the gravel road to the paved road. At age 75 I got a bike. Haven't ridden for 40 years. So, you can understand my nervousness maybe. That's my reasons for watching this video. I have taken a two day refresher course. It's required where I live; WA State, US. I think it will be no problem. Cheers !!
Please keep going. Will keep you young. Just do things at the speed you want.
@@easyonenow Thanks mate !! Problem is, I love twisting the throttle. It's the most powerful bike I've ever had. I'm riding chill mostly though. Cheers!!
Be careful, dont get to ornery!!! Have fun , this aint no dress rehearsal!!!
@@jeffreyyeater1780 I posted my initial comment 8 months ago. I've done a lot of riding since then. I still don't like dirt roads but they no longer freak me out. Loose gravel or sand might be another matter. I had an epic camping trip at the Makah nation, on an ocean beach. Cheers !!
Another great video! Your content is always very clear and you get to the point! I find your channel very helpful and the information is very relevant to me. Thanks for putting out the videos!
My pleasure! You should my patrons for helping make them possible!
Hey, your videos have been getting better and better, thanks for making them!
I am mostly a street rider who likes long distance touring two-up on a BMW K1600. Inevitably we run into construction, and with Murphy’s Law, it will be raining turning the construction zone into a bumpy muddy mess. A video on how to deal with that scenario would be good. I actually do 4 of your suggestions (trail braking, etc) but body position gives me a problem with two of us on the bike.
Are you standing? I would suggest the paddeling video is probably the most useful for that.
As alway .. great instructive tips…keep up the good work supporting our sport
Gravel can be downright scary with street pressure in your tires. A few pounds less can mean the difference between hooking up and skating over the surface.
Depends a bit on the tyre though!
Yep, surprised this wasn't one of the tips, literally anyone will be a better rider in gravel by lowering pressure a bit, and that goes for any tire, street, knobby, ADV, doesn't matter.
On my ktm 1190 r, I lower my tires down to 25 lbs . I'm still feeling things out , just got it . Tires are of course, all different .
Im OK with gravel roads but where i struggle is blind corners where you have to go wide and the outside car track has more gravel on it and is off camber. A video on this would be fantastic.
On gravelroads you usually dont have speedsigns as you do on tarmac... so its more difficult to know what is reasonable speed...
Also it depends on weather and road condition... which takes experience to judge...
And dealing with front or back skidding out is hard on the nerves in the beginning...
On tarmac everything is tight and controlled...
On gravel everything slips and slides...
Fun but fear-inducing as well...
Coming from a vfr 800 to crf 250 l 😉
Great video Lel!
Love your Minitips😉👍🏻
Thanks! 😁
Brilliant episode as usual,thanks!
Fantastic video! I seem to have been doing all these things without knowing I should, it's just what's worked best for me. Thanks for confirmation!
Great Job Todd!
Goldmine of info, thank you for putting this together.
Glad it was helpful!
A great, educational video! Thank you!
What a great communicator, great thinking, beautiful delivery. Have been riding for 35yrs (OMG where did that time go) and still love to hear these ideas explained simply. Agree about tall gears, allows the bike to be super smooth - and it so rarely comes up in technique discussions. Thanks heaps
My tip is to burn up as much gas as possible. I'm thankful that I have thousands of miles of dirt roads to ride.. My AT is a awesome bike to have in my neck of the woods.
Great tips. The only one I find difficult to follow is the tall gear, cause even on Gs1250, I am always scared of engine turning off in tight corners
You can do it!
@@BrakeMagazine I just finished a refresher course on how to ride a bike safely. I recall being taught the importance of matching the gear to the bike speed. That's important for what you are concerned about. Practice, practice, practice. Cheers!
I hope this message still reaches you: What would you recommend how to ride down a gravel road with lots of potholes in it? Then halfway down I must navigate right to enter my driveway. Motor is a (heavy) Suzuki Vstrom 1050 XT. Before I had a Kawasaki SX1000 but that was real drama. I fell twice already with these bikes. Any advice is very welcome.
I ride almost exclusively on gravel. My GS in Enduro mode performs best (for me) at higher RPM. Riding in higher gears causes the engine to lug in many situations. I'm of the mind that you should never lug the engine, so I always ride at high RPM. This also makes engine braking a lot more predictable.
Why should you never lug the engine?
@@BrakeMagazine let's see: detonation, higher engine temperature, cylinder damage. You're basically forcing your engine to work harder than it should have to .
@@MN8015HQ It was genuine question. No need to be sarcy 😂
It's interesting because it's the opposite of how I ride big bikes. 👍
@@BrakeMagazine No worries. I don't know what sarcy means. Search for "lugging an engine" and you'll learn more than I can tell you.
Most if not all my dirt road travel is loose gravel roads. It is tricky to ride. Straight lines, no problem, around corners (how slow can I go and stay upright).
I'd love to ride "dirt roads" but most of the dirt roads here are dirt and loose gravel (especially in corners - for some reason).
It's the loose gravel roads that I watched this vid and you say to stay away from it, so................
Honestly, the rules about body weight apply, but there is a limit to the grip on an ADV bike in that stuff and you kind have to respect it. :)
I've gone down because I drifted from the tire track into the center-line gravel pile, while leaned in a corner.
That'll do it!
Awesome tip. Now to take my learnings to the gravel! Where abouts were these gravel roads?
Riding on hardpac like this can be a little sketchy... Scary is fresh gravel like FSR's in the N ga mountains. Fresh, loose gravel is like snot for two wheels...
I live in Kenya where all roads are gravel. I never treat it differently than any other road surface. I’ve never envisioned gravel to be any different than tarmac except that you lean your body the other way going around a corner. What everyone’s hangup is about gravel I’ve never understood. Just ride! Gravel is not slippery!
I feel the same but I grew riding dirt. I think that's the difference. You have good knowledge of what happens.
You grew up with it, probably did the 10000 hours riding along and then behind the bars, so you reached the “genius level” where it is second nature. I did my time on snow and ice, in Sweden, in a car and a bicycle, so snow and ice doesn’t bother me, but someone new to that surface will suffer. I am a beginner on a motorbike though so appreciate this video. Kenya looks like a nice place to ride.
@@kristofferrydquist8384 Kenya is pretty much the perfect place to ride. Trails everywhere, fantastic destinations, no cops, friendly people, great weather. I’m going around the lake next month; Uganda Rwanda Congo and Tanzania before I come home to Kenya. Life is short…just ride!
Awesome tips, thanks for sharing!
No problem Louie! Thanks for watching!
nice movie lots of good information thank you
The last tip on low rpms/revs slowing down throttle response and suspension reactions makes sense. Good one I hadn't heard before.
Problem is if you own a KTM like the 890, it's just so much fun to be sideways and spinning the rear at every opportunity. especially when trying to destroy the stock tyres so you can get something good on there. Could just be KTM riders are hooligans though.
I think being in high gears/low rpms is a great way to learn to be a better driver also on the tarmac. Not only does it make the bike behave a little less nervous but you also notice your mistakes much easier as the recovery is slower as opposed to being able to compensate with a twist of throttle and quick power in the lower gears.
Catastrophes if riding in wet. Needs qualification. Only if on igneous derived crushed rock and non-clay rich underlying soil.
Well done! Thanks.
Great video and content overall.
Thank you! Tell ya friends!
Great advice! Thanks.
Glad it was helpful!
I've been riding a lot of gravel roads lately overseas and am really struggling with the off camber corners at speed, trying to avoid ending up in the bushes lol. I haven't really thought of using a tall gear because I get worried it's too much strain on my engine when going slow, my bike cruises at 4k rpm, but if I was on the gravel cornering in 3rd gear slowly, it seems like my rpm would be 2k or less and would sound like it's straining. Is this okay for the bike? (1190 r)
Great tips bud.
if you love gravel roads you should visit Latvia
Tell me more!
@@BrakeMagazine there is a bunch of them here and many are beautiful, 16 026km paved and 53 634km gravel/unpaved, varies a bit depending on source, in a relatively small country. and all types of them, from small forest type with deep ditches on the side to wide straight ones you _can_ do 160kmph + (its illegal, legal limit is 80 kmph and police generally tolerate some 20~30 more, but not guaranteed)
Now show us how to do a 180 switch back up hill. Nobody wants to make that video
they cover it on the BMW level 1 course !
You are not going to learn it by watching a video ! Go and buy the course, it’s fun and the instruction is amongst the world’s best.
hmm, depending on the bike and it's particular EFI implementation, riding in a higher gear in lower revs might lead to more engine cut offs and thus throttle snatchiness.
Only at super low speeds. At gravel road speeds it's highly unlikely and at low speeds you ride around that using the clutch.
@@BrakeMagazine well, on my V Strom 650 (2019), if I am in say 3rd gear at about 30 kph (I think that's about 2-3k RPM) the throttle response is very snatchy, as soon as I let if off a bit and then rev a small ammount, and I do mean small, the engine splurts and the bike jerks forward. I always thought that's the EFI coming back to life, abruptly. And no, I am not stalling it, I know how that feels. If I gear down to 2nd and go to 3-4k rpm then it's fine.
Of course that could be me having a "car mentality" and thinking it's normal to stay that low in the rpm :)
Awesome video, no explanation to what trail braking was though
The previous was ten minutes dedicated to trail braking
Thanks Lel - again, great video and great advice! Would be great if you could do training with small groups or do even 1-2-1’s… Greetings from Lake Constance, Jörn
I teach at Off Road Skills. You can always let me know when you're looking at going and I'll make sure I'm there too
Young Grasshoppers if your out in the bush on the dirt ask yourself why, it's about traveling through country. It changes all the time its beuttiful ,slow down heaps most riders are up shit creek because of speed
So what do u do if you have a 2h dirt road ahead? Stand on the motorcycle all the way?
Absolutely not
Great tips! Do you trail brake with front or rear brake or does it vary? Are the BMWs linked brakes? Asking for a friend who rides KTM or Tiger😀
I always avoid the front brake on gravel, good question that he never answered.
Hi Lell, thanks for a great mini tip Monday. I am really struggling to change gear in the standing position, particularly up changes, do you have any magic hints that might help please? 🏍🏍👍👍
It might help to raise the position of the shift lever to get your boot under more easily.
Conversely, if it's too high, it will be awkward to left the front of your foot enough without forcing you to lift off the peg.
Also, consider an adjustable lever for it. Some people have big feet and boots that sick out. Others have tiny feet that barely reach. Manufacturers chose an acceptable mid ground.
It's possible your shifting mechanisms are worn out, many needing a new spider gear or pins ect to more positively snap into each gear.
Just like downshifting, it is a decisive motion but not forceful. If you are mushy with it, it won't shift consistently, so make sure you make a definite travel with your foot.
It could also be a bad angle of interaction with your boot, such as riding on the front curve where half the time the other slips and only moves halfway. (Again fixed with an adjustable lever...or a different boot)
Do you have any advice for dealing with freshly laid gravel patches? Example riding on hard packed gravel where you can get some speed and then all of a sudden is 6 to 10 cm deep freshly laid gravel where the front end wants to dance out from under you.
Panic, pray to God and close your eyes!
I joke. Generally I would try to move my weight backward and keep some trailing throttle even if I'm trying to slow down I think. I'll have to have a think about it!
@@BrakeMagazine thanks for the reply! Yeah third time on gravel with the big bike (150 miles over two days), off road event where 95% of others were on dirt bikes (called Adventure Palooza). Was getting in the groove, then second day a lot deeper gravel and I lost my nerve big time. Sphincter puckering for sure.
One of the riding tips is to shift your body weight to the outside of the curve. This naturally causes the bike to lean even more than necessary- more lean means less tire patch contact. Less tire contact patch means increase risk of slipping out! Why wouldn't you shift some weight to the inside of the corner to help keep the bike standing up as much as possible?
It's not about size of the contact patch but where the force is on the tyre. This isn't my invention, this is widely accepted as the correct technique.
When you try to keep the bike upright an lean off the inside you unweight the tyres and push them away. Try it, you'll feel what I mean when you ride. It's why you never see good off road riders or mtb riders hang off the inside of the bike.
@@BrakeMagazine But don't you find it odd the track racers diligently lean IN on the curves so the bike can stand UP (more vertical). This supposedly gives better tire contact and allows more lean/faster cornering, as I understand it.
Leaning outward on a dirt corner seems a lot safer for me since if the tires slip out, you have a chance at not being crushed under the bike! Isn't this the main reason? Some say better visibility too from the upright position rather than from leaning inward and downward. Thanks for your videos- I find them very instructive and well thought out!
@@billroberts9182 not at all. It's a question of physics and trying to understand grip coefficient. Canadian Channel Fort nine just explained this really well but I will try to here. It has nothing to do with the bike not falling on you or looking further round the corner.
When you ride on a track we ask different things and control the bike in different ways. One things that is consistent in footpeg pressure. Even when track riders hang off, they still pressure outside peg to push the tyre into the ground as best, especially when accelerating. They use their own mass to encourage the bike around the corner but are relying on a high grip coefficient to stop the tyres sliding too much. The 'keeping the bike upright' is primarily about acceleration. They run extreme lean angles up to 60 degrees matched with high forward momentum. That allows the tyres to stick in a way they physically can't off road.
Off road we have none of that. Low grip coefficient and far lower speeds means we need to generate more grip mechanically by forcing the tyre into the ground using our weight and gravity. If you lean off the inside you can't push the tyre down enough to stick and you will struggle to have grip and feel confident. The slower you ride the more this matters as we loose the benefits of forward momentum and typically off road riding is significantly slower than on road. We also control the bike using footpeg pressure rather than counter steering and stand up a lot. It's impossible to hang off the inside while standing and weight the outside peg.
Good question but you're gonna have to trust me and the thousands and thousands of riders way better than me who do it the same way off road and lean in on road 🙂
@@BrakeMagazine Well thank you for your answer! I know it is complicated, and I will have to trust your experience and the thousands of others as well. When I turn a dirt corner, I'm very careful about losing traction. I've done so on mountain bikes and I don't want to do it on a 600 lb. ADV motobike! When this Covid dies down, I'm hoping to come visit my ancestor's homeland- Wales.
Back brake or front? Turn off ABS? Turn of traction control? Enduro Pro?
Watch our trail braking video 🙂
make a video on how to store/carry your camera gear during off road rides . I am scared to carry them in a backpack so, do you have any good solution ?
I don't sorry. I think you could use a Peli case or something similar. You can mount those like a top box. I worry about the camera bouncing around on the bike so I use a backpack.
The one I have is very good. It's called a Shimoda Explore 40 and the cameras are quite protected in it but riding with a back is hard. At least I find it hard 🤣
Most importantly where was this filmed?!
Hello, I'd be coming from the US but I'm curious how one goes about booking a training with you?
I work as an instructor at BMW Off Road Skills. Offroadskills.com 🙂
Applying front brake when turning on loose surface sounds a bit dangerous to me. What happens if the front wheel blocks for a moment? Instant crash or can easily save?
If you ease off the brake you won't crash, but you also won't lock the front wheel if you do it how we are saying.
Watch our last Minitip Monday on Trail Braking. 🙂
i just want to know where you're filming these vids?
Wales 🙂
On me hols in Spain and just got an upgrade to an Africa twin.I wonder-should I
YES
@@BrakeMagazine It had to happen and we may need to talk KTM Medellin to sponsor your visit for a couple of training days
Those roads might as well be paved. Show us some stuff with serious mounds of gravel.
Why do I need a bad gravel road to explain this?
I regularly encounter roads that have recently been graded. The gravel is thick.
Freshly graded riding tips?
Pray 🤣🤣 Generally, slow down early for corners and try to keep and constant throttle setting. It's the same idea as mud, ruts or sand.
Thanks
I tried to chill & not butt pucker too much, let bike do it’s thing.
Early corner advice-thx.
When the gravel is new and deep you basically have to slow down. The bike is going to track where it's going to track. Stay loose and don't go heavy on the brakes
completely off topic but am I the only one wondering if his front tire is on backwards?
I always think it is too. The tread on the Karoo looks backward, but it's not.
Haven't I seen this video a while ago? Is this a re-post?
Only on Patreon 🙂
I thought so too, but I think it's the trail braking video that looked similar to start.
I love these videos but how the hell do you get to use these roads ? I live in South Wales and every forestry road like this is strictly forbidden to ride motorbikes quads 4×4s I'd absolutely love to ride these ! HOW ?? I need to know 🤯
You can find most of the legal lanes in the UK using the OS Maps website. These were all legal rights of way. :)
Are the videos just for BMW GS riders or all kinds of adventure bikes because you are biased?
Why am I biased? You can use these techniques on any bike. BMW just leant me a bike to make the videos 🙂
I don’t think this video implies any bias at all towards BMW. It’s clearly a video about riding larger bikes on gravel roads. The BMW is a big adv bike. Sure you could use other bikes but it’s not like they’re going out of their way to sell you a BMW.
Keep up the good work Lel, excellent content - ignore Poole like this. Longish time subscriber and enjoy your videos. Thanks Lel..
Air down 🙄 rule no1
That completely depends on tyres. A lot of modern ADV tyres don't work very well at conventional pressures and perform better at closer to road pressure.
Wait! Did you say brake in the corner! 😅
Kinda...
@@BrakeMagazine
Everyone rides different but braking in the corner would cause loss of traction from the rear wheel. It would be better to just come off the throttle.
@@TankToChest Well, not really. The rear brake pulls the wheel toward the ground and it's only a problem under hard braking.
Just rolling off the throttle creates a host of problems I cover in this video
I have done a lot of gravel, but trail braking is a new concept to me….transformational you say? Going to give it a go thanks!
No problem David! Love to hear how you get on!
Theses are not mini tips, these are awesome Monday motorcycle riding classes!! Well done Llel & team, thank you for sharing so much knowledge!! 👍👍
That ride everywhere in 4th gear on a GS (although probably overly generalised), is a huge tip for me. I’ve been doing gravel tracks in 2nd most of the time.
Great tips. I just can add, when you get scared-stand up, when you start loosing traction-stand up, when you are not sure how deep the puddle is -stand up 😀 At least that works for me.
Absolutely!
Body positioning is soooo important on these big bikes. It needs to be exaggerated. ELBOWS! are so important and that starts with the way you grip the handlebars etc. Need to stay in front of these big bikes. If you ride behind the balance point or tugg on the bars, you're going to have issues. Good vid!
Great tips thanks you🙃
Love your good dirt roads. In Australia our gravel roads are just that, full of gravel. Our councils just dump and flatten it. After a few days there are furrows, corrugation and mounds, just lovely to ride in and occasionally lie down. I found being an active sitter on long rides saves my knees. In technical stuff I do all the active moving when standing. Oh, I ride a modified DR650 and gave the larger bikes away.
Ah, there aren't many roads like that in the UK. Most of them are ancient rights of way and are unmaintained.
These ones are good though 🙂
When you are trail braking round the corner is the throttle closed or are you giving it a little bit of power?
Closed
Congrats on 50k! I’m not the best rider but was shown these tips by better riders and did a lot of them. At Baja Rally I passed about 7 riders on those types of roads where I could. Most of them went 50-60 and I was on the 990 and was familiar with the roads.
Great advice! I love a gravel road! While I've 20years experience of track, enduro and motocross, almost nothing beats a fast, sinuous piece of gravel - true flow! I've the same GS as yours here and loving it on the gravel with TKC80s. Such a capable bike. I'd also add that quick shifters really help you stay smooth and nicely weighted as you ride in a high gear. Also, really scan near and far for surface changes - hitting deep sand-filled holes in an otherwise hardback/gravel trail can be disastrous... I've got prior!
theres not a single gravel road in this entire video. its all just rocky dirt roads.
try riding on the ball-bearing strewn field that is red gravel in australia.
Don't be an idiot riding beyond your skills. Ride safe and go home.
What tyres have you found best on the GS, especially gravel roads? Loving your vids, really great quality!
There are few. The Karoo 3 is really good on gravel on a GS. It's predictable
I second the Karoo 3 on my KTM 790R, it’s great for gravel and mud, but iffy on large rocks
Trail braking and drag braking. Learn the difference!
One of my top 2 or 3 channels! Thanks!
Thanks for the kind words and watching!
Great tips. Thanks.
Ya welcome!
Great tips. I assume all of this requires shutting down ABS and traction control, yes? (Triumph Tiger Explorer)
On a Tiger Explorer probably. It's a while since I road one but I don't remember it being great.
A really good instructive video. One criticism - I'd suggest not riding anywhere near as close to another rider as shown in the video. If the rider in front comes off, meets an oncoming vehicle on a corner or, for example, is 'collected by a kangaroo - then the rider behind may well also be involved in an accident.
Also, it means that both riders are distracted by the need to also consider the other rider - thereby distracting their 100% concentration on the road. When riding with a mate on gravel roads I always give them at least a five second leeway and, if dust is an issue, sometimes several hundred metres ... or more.
It's just for the video and filming purposes. I agree. :)
Great tips I’ll be incorporating into future dirt touring. Thanks a bunch!👍
😁😁 Thanks for watching!
This is a great discussion. The other major benefit to exiting a corner in a tall gear is having the RPM headroom so you can spin the rear down the entire straight and not run out of gear. ;-)
Great vid - I posted the link in a bunch of facebook groups - so hopefully a bunch of traffic coming into your channel :) Great to hear the basics, no matter how long you've been riding :)
I try not to go faster than 50 kmh (32 mph) on loose gravel. Am I too cautious?
it all depends on your bike, tires and mostly skill level.. I've done 100 on a Harley and been scared shitless at 40 on a MX bike :) going straight, with a steady throttle isn't the issue.. it's the braking/ corners that'll get you!
All very good tips. The tall gear (high gear) tip is a good one, and same goes for driving a car in deep snow. A low gear creates too much power, causing the wheels to be more likely to spin or skid, while a high gear makes your power inputs more gradual, thus smoothing things out. I rode a cruiser for 10 years, have now begun riding an ADV bike, and the gravel roads are fun and an interesting learning experience.
What IS trail-braking? Is that both front and rear, or just rear.
Both mostly.
around 8.40 you mention using a taller gear, what about when you are in a steep incline, would it be better to use a lower gear and engine braking or keep high and use the brakes to control descent speeds, especially if there are lots of tight corners?
Good tips, but didn't mention throttle control when cornering. What are your thoughts, adjusting speed before entering the corner and then just with the throttle slightly open just to maintain speed and balance weight between front and rear until the exit?
I have a question that why we don't stand up on enduro bikes whereas on adv bikes,we stand up?because ive seen most of dirt bike riders sit on bike while riding offroad.
That's a complex question. The simplest answer is it gives you more control because the bike is heavier than you.
Also, it's not true that dirt bike riders sit down more. When you ride enduro you really only sit to go around corners fast. Everything else will be stood up.
Also long flat seat on enduro bikes means you get get really far forward while seated. Adv bike heavier and scooped seat with big tank in the way, so to have the same effect on front tyre you need stand. enduro bikes you can have that amount of influence while seated - you get further forward of coe and they lighter
Not enduro, but beware or motocross tips, as they go around mostly banked corners and nicely graded dirt so will learn with their bikes rather weight the outside peg like adventure riders.
@@BrakeMagazine thank you very much
Great tips and excellent use of graphics. Thank you.
what tires are u running in this video?
Metzeler Karoo 3
I'm new to the motorcycle world. What type of bike do you have in this video?
BMW GS. Its am adventure style bike, designed to work on and off road.
@@BrakeMagazine it looks like it does a fantastic job at that! Not to mention its super sweet looking, I'm thinking thats the one I'm gonna try and snag