Hey Eck! I just wanted to say that I’ve been with this channel for over a year and have enjoyed your videos. Your vids have an unmatched level of quality and are always enjoyable. Stay frosty ❤️👏👌
If we take the current flood and tyranids as they exist then i would say tyranids win with sheer numbers, if we take the flood from the forerunner flood war era then I'd say the flood wins
you r forgetting that the tyranids have a psychic blanking affect around that fleets that stop whole systems from using some psychic powers. If that affects the floods communication it will be the death of the flood.
@@gumfireparalax1371 YEAH but they stopped being a sufficient enemy threat whilst the Tyranids were a constant force in the galaxy and remained as such after they're "defeat".
@@tophatstudios8183 Logic plague, it's a way the flood has on corrupting AI to their favor, so then the AI sabotages systems for powerful civilizations and leaves them vulnerable to the flood.
and also the fact that the three main factions or variations of tyranids (kraken, leviathan and Behemoth) all came from different directions, meaning that the milky way might already be surrounded from all sides by tyranids, the fact that they can simply just slurp any dna and create a new creature using that dna is crazily scary, they can devour space marines and create the tyrant guards, heavily armored melee based infantry (not special infantry, they are as important as a single cadian shocktrooper)
I think that's just based on where they are currently. The Flood would likely be an equal or greater threat if given the same functionally endless resources.
@@Squigglyline52 the thing is, the tyranids do not rely on technologies of other species to infect and take over, but rather create their own to suit their needs
One thing you missed is the fact that the flood can produce its own combatants, when they have a gravemind they can produce pure flood forms Wich are stronger and deadlier than a assimilated host (like the juggernaut for example)
@@xypherath they can but they tipically ignore them because their bodies are small in comparison with the other species, they generally use them for biomass
The Faro plague would probably be the best weapon to combat the other plagues if it was used as a weapon by a sentient species of sufficiently intelligent AI
Remember tyrannids fucked up whole galaxies, evolve, have swarms bigger than solar systems, can start cults, defeated demons, AIs, and demigods whiping out planets and every biomatter in it. Its gonna be hard stopping those mad lads
@@ethandew1768 Not denying you or anything but the Faro plague literally adapts to anything, the Tyranids would not be able to reproduce as the Faro plague is obviously made of metal. If a chariot gets killed by a Tyranid the other chariots would take note of that loss, send the data back to Hades, and evolve to combat that. The chariots all have advanced ranged and melee combat data. I would say that if the Faro plague had space flight like all the other races they would be a threat on the same level as the Tyranids. Each planet they would harvest more resources and multiply and evolve. In other words I say that the Tyranids and the Faro plague or on pretty equal terms.
@@nicholaswade211 your not wrong but on equal terms is an understatement because unless the faro plague gets eliminated almost instantly they would adapt perfectly to anything that's a treat to them basically if a tyranid ship gets too close to the faro plague and gets assimilated it's pretty much over for the whole 40k universe not even the warp can stop the faro plague from plaguing the whole universe and the thing is the faro plague doesn't have emotions thus the less biomass in the universe the less influential the warp gets until the final biomass is assimilated a faro plague invasion is by far the scariest cause it's the most likely to succeed in it's role.
@@lokiforpresident8361 I totally agree with you. With the capabilities the Faro plagues has they would definitely be a universal threat. Especially how any mechanical weapon thrown at them will be taken over (if it’s an AI that is) the Faro plague corrupter line also have good melee capability and speed. I feel the only threat to them would be too little biomass. But then again it only takes a single tree to fully power one robot.
@@nicholaswade211 until the universe runs out of biomass there will be constant invasions from the ferros the bad part is the horus might be able to upgrade itself the horus itself is bad enough but what about an upgraded horus?
Another thing for the flood is, towards the end of the Forerunner-Flood war, slipstream space was beginning to breakdown, as the flood began to mess with the fabric of reality.
@@connormcgehee9349 I think the most dangerous thing would be for the Flood and the Orks to exist in the same universe. The Flood would get access to easily infected, endlessly reproducing biomass. Not to mention giving a super intelligence the ability to use the Ork’s reality warping psychic powers. Sure, the Orks don’t add much intelligence to the Gravemind, but having unlimited reality bending soldiers would be a hell of an advantage.
@@Noplayster13 that's a great point. Plus while the orks don't add much wisdom to the gravemind the gravemind still gets like exponential Grey matter to think about things
They also stoped forerunner weapons/coms from working not just the shadow in the warp but also weapons stop working and with Star road wips that smack planets and solar systems around like ping pong balls. Final X factor is flood knows how to build and manipulate technology. This means if the flood needed to it could likely build and teleport in halo rings into the Tyrinds galaxy’s or those other forerunner/precourcer super weapons. Even on the Lowest tech access it can cobble UNSC or even Coveent slip space tech.
accordingly, there has been found prehistoric tyranid fossils on some planets, predating the first tyranid invasion of planet tyran for millions of years at least.
I believe he meant the actual origins of the tyranids, which we know literally nothing of- beyond that they are from outside the milky way and were drawn here by Rowboats psychic beacon adventures
The Tyranids (namely, Hive Fleet Gorgon) have successfully bio-engineered a flesh-rotting disease that has infected some Death Guard... Nurgle ain’t shit
@@napdragon7324 i can almost guarantee you that Nurgle not only studied that disease with glee but made a better one based off of the same principles. Good effort, but no one beats the god of plague when it comes to PLAGUE. Tyranids do have Nurgle's armies beat, though. He gon have to retreat to the warp, can't make the perfect disease for an infinitely genetically diverse species
@@napdragon7324 logic wise tyranid is too op. I think (im not sure not that hardcore fan) 40K universe still not meet with the main body of the fleet yet?
@@Animalisticbehavio Yes and No. with GW’s policy of everything is canon, either Leviathan is the main/rest of the tyranids, the forces in the Milky Way are a tiny, tiny portion of the full Tyranid might, or anywhere in between.
@@yolospawn410 it has a linked information network. Like the opposite of the forerunner domain. So its not just the primordial. Its all things they have ever learned or consumed, past and present
And also the millions of year worth knowledge of both ancient humans and forerunners and also precursors knowledge can be passed down to The new graveminds.
I think something that could easily be missed about the Necromorphs here, is that the marker signal is actually more effective against more intelligent species. Most 'common' people simply developed dementia, but the smarter the person was, the more they were driven to build markers, and it was designed to make the affected believe that the marker was extraordinarily beneficial to them in some way. So if you were to pit them against the Flood, for example, who can grow to massive levels of biological intelligence, and combine a hive mind affected by a marker signal, you suddenly have an entire colony as it were of super marker builders. Plus imagine a reanimated necromorph grave mind.
@table2392 i think you forget that a single gravemind is as intelligent then's of thousands of people and a keymind is a planet sized gravemind a single keymind is as intelligent if not more so than a contender class forerunner ai which could control millions of ships and make precise movements in the heat of battle without breaking a sweat, no matter how strong a bethern moon is it won't be able to overpower even a single keymind not to mention the fact keyminds are able to make use of precursor neural physics and, which includes starroads which could tear apart planets, a brethren moon against a keymind would get absolutely decimated.
@@skylerwilde-mitchell9791 Keyminds can infect/corrupt space-time itself, not to mention they can corrupt machines even though they're purely biological, whos to say they cant corrupt a marker?
Neither and both. The tyranids and flood would enter a state of infinite assimilation of eachother becoming a galaxy sized mass of flesh and technollogy in a constant flux btween biomass types governed by a dual personal hivemind commanding floodanids to invade the multiverse.
Or they could merge, that would be insane, give a Gravemind the Tyranids psychic abilities and the Tyranids the Graveminds intelligence and the Universe is utterly screwed
Tyranids can evolve to a threat very quickly and efficiently. I do not know Halo lore well so if I’m wrong correct me but it seems the flood is limited to the life form it infects and can only mildly change it. The Nids would likely win at some point.
@@Alexander59059 for the longest time I thought nids were by far the strongest parasites in any fiction. Until I started dwelving more into the Flood. Even though I consider myself a Halo fan, I had no idea just how powerful the Flood were. They can in fact infect anything, but choose mostly sapient species with a certain biomass for combat reasons mostly, otherwise its turned into biomass that terraforms environments. They work in three stages: 1 - Uncoordinated 2 - Coordinated 3 - Galactic Hands down nids win vs uncoordinated flood, since its at a stage where the flood are "primal", they only work by local hivemind or thru a proto-gravemind. At a coordinated level, a gravemind is born and the Flood works at a quantum coordination level. Its a war of attrition at this point without any clear winners. Take note that for every victim assimilated into the Flood, their memories/skills/emotions are absorbed into it so to a degree, the gravemind not only remembers everything from previous graveminds but will add on to this universal knowledge. The more corpses a gravemind is made up of, the more exponential its intelligence is. After a few million corpses given to the gravemind, it arrives at the galactic stage. Here its intellect becomes so far beyond comprehension that its able to coordinate on a galactic scale, as well as actually develop psychic abilities. A gravemind at this stage is able to fuck with time and space itself; opening wormholes, change the perception of time to its adversaries, create singularities and generally so massive that just its proximity to a world dooms it. Alternatively, if it weren't bad enough, gravemind have the logic plague: a ideo-semantical means to "infect" non-organic life thru philosophy, well-chosen words spoken at a slow-burn pace. Essentially using swaying words to make artificial intelligence to sway into its favor/side. Graveminds are scary as fuck. While the Nids have also their enormous strength, I cannot even picture the biggest nid swarm facing a full-on galactic gravemind and winning. Edit: Flood can also intergrate without problem technology into their ranks. Not only having its fighters pick up guns and using them, but have entire fleet of ships converted with biomass and said mas utilizing the ships, even potentially create things thru their fallen adversaries' technologies.
@@Peusterokos1 I never knew the Flood could be so powerful. At that point the Grave-mind would probably be able to use its psychic power to overload the Tyranid hive mind, if not the flood would still be better in almost every way, The only advantage they would have is that the Nids have no technology to steal or be corrupted.
@@Alexander59059 The nid's greatest advantage against the Flood would be sheer numbers, actual psychic fighters (Zoanthropes), production of integrated bioweaponry and their high-evolutive abilities; all they'd have to do to avoid flood infection is reformating/remove their nervous system. However, The Flood would simply avoid the latter's answer by attacking the Nid's targets. It would probably assimilate humanity/eldars into the gravemind, farm orkz for fighters and persuade the necrons to join their ranks with the logic plague in a WH40K setting. The key aspect for the Flood's victory would be to achieve the galactic stage before the bulk of the Nid's fleets arrives in the galaxy. On a note, the Flood would actually do poorly against Chaos since the only psychic entity the Flood have is the gravemind itself.
The Faro swarm is interesting since it could stop an early to moderate flood invasion. And even a near end game necromorph invasion. Its unique ability to fuel itself with biomatter turns the other's strengths against them. Its the only faction that could starve the others out of resources. Alone out of all the factions it's the only one that would cause the tyraind fleet to ignore the planet since it is depleted of biomatter.
Zachary Hawley The first thing I thought of was that, in a vs debate, the Faro Plague would have a massive advantage because the other factions would be unable to consume it.
Especially interesting is that, though the Plague feeds on biomass, it, by virtue of being a mechanical faction, *also* benefits from raiding the tech of other robotic factions; if the Plague were to win a fight against, say, Necrons, it could then start pulling apart the remains to build more robots. Not only can it mince organic parasite factions, it doesn't fall into the Tyranid trap of being hard-countered by robots.
When the Tyranid absorb planets after subjugating them they don't just grab biomass but also all mineral deposits as well (which is one of the reasons their carapaces are harder than most combat armors in wh40k). Given their extremely fast adaptability and evolution rate, and the fact that they already use non-biomass I would highly doubt that the Faro Swarm's lack of biomass would be an issue for them.
One thing about the Farro plague that I think you overlooked is that they hack other AI so in the world they occupied, battles and wars were fought with AI. It left everyone with little to no means of defense.
@@Raipongai From what I hear, the logic plague is designed to fight against AI by corrupting data or making it things in ways that assist the flood. The thing about HZD's Farro Plague is that HADES isn't an AI. It's a program that thinks off of raw algorithms. I don't think the Logic Plague would have much effect, if any effect at all. I don't recall the Logic Plague completely rewriting systems, meaning the Farro Plague and HADES would probably just shrug it off and continue on. I'm not sure how this would play out, honestly. But if HADES was initially programmed for Earth defense or planet reclamation and not life elimination, it likely would've adapted through it's learning algorithms to get off-planet and face the threat directly. With how fast the reproduction is, and with how it consumes bio-mass for fuel, the Farro Plague would likely have an easy time wiping planets clean of Flood or Tyanid infections. True, Tyranids and the Flood is terrifying, but I think the Farro Plague is more so, since it wouldn't take much more than a small code re-write or command input to completely wipe a nearby planet of bio-mass.
@@deathound Interesting how you describe AI's, considering they are also raw algorithms, ordered to allow decision making and self-improvement. While it is called the "Logic Plague", it is actually just a way of communication, the Gravemind using rhetoric on an AI/ a Being to distort it's sense of Duty and expose contradictions so that it could use them to further it's own influence. This ability is "created" with the creation of a Gravemind Mendicant Bias was convinced that the Gravemind was the true Owner of the Mantle of Responsibility because it wanted to encapsule all Life and "transcend" it beyond death. In other cases it would bombard research AI's with Precursor knowledge and views on the Mantle while also hacking into their systems. The UrDidact was driven mad by the contradictions between the knowledge of the Gravemind and his pride in the Forerunners and made him act as a disturbance and threat to the Forerunners War efforts Later on, the Act of inducing the Logic Plague became akin to a program, because it could be transmitted without the Graveminds direct action, but it is still just as potent. As long as a System has a goal / parameters to follow and a decisionmaking algorithm, it is susceptible to the Logic Plague. The lower a systems complexity is, the easier it is to infect, as the system just has to be convinced that Flood-favoring actions are good ways to reach it's goal. Whether it was the glitched out Swarm, that probably deemed All of Humanity to be an "Enemy" or Hades (who became a fullfledged AI) with an reactivated Plague who .... did the same, convincing them that the Flood would destabilize and reset the bioaphere would be easy.
Logic plague is more just the idea that the flood, with the immense intellect of a gravemind and the fullness of time can either trick or convince and AI that helping/leaving the flood alone is in the interests of their creators/directives. It can hardly do much against a program that says: if(thing not equals me) then(kill)
i always wonder why he looks like he's coming out of the gaybar from police academy, it looks like he's wearing the same masochist-leathercap featured there
@@TWO_THOUSAND_SEAVY_HEAVY No, they really don't. Infection forms can't actually get through space marine armor, and even if they could the mental strength of a space marine is such that they resist all but willful corruption (chaos). Tyranids, though, can peel a space marine's armor apart like it's aluminum foil (which is saying something, given that space marine armor is 6 inch thick steel alloy). Seriously, the flood wouldn't even stand a chance against the imperium given the amount of exterminatus that the imperium wields, let alone the 'nids.
@@fuckboiactual1976 Do you even know how Master Chief destroyed the Flood? The dude literally had to use a Halo Ring, an ancient superweapon designed by the Forerunners, which is capable of destroying all life in the galaxy, to destroy the bulk of the Flood threat. Those same rings were used as a last resort by the Forerunners near the end of their long conflict between the Flood. The Forerunners were so desperate that they destroyed all life in the galaxy (not before preserving all or most life on the Ark, which is outside of the Milky Way) just so they could stop the Flood. There is no way the Chief could've just walked up and killed them all by himself, he would get infected.
necromorphs are beyond terrifying. honestly the bots from zero dawn might be a hard counter to them as they are technically bio matter the machines may be able to consume and they cant be added to the necromorph collective since they arent organic.....
Yeah while the necromorphs are actually horrifying and effective, they are still bio matter and the best defense is the marker fucking up the machines in range of it.
@@deadman9335 even if the marker could mess w the machines which i doubt given how broken the ferro machines were ai wise it wouldnt matter if they kept coming and wrecking then consuming necromorphs then repairing and multiplying
@@Nomadic_Gaming that is what I was saying. The only thing that they could do is try and break them with a marker pulse. But I don't know if it would work
This is why I pose a counter to the Feros plague. The Infestation from Warframe. A fungus-like growth originally designed to serve as an interface between man and machine, the Infestation grew out of control. The Infestation is able to infest both man and machine due to it's interface abilities, and as we see with the Helminth and and the creatures of Deimos, the disease is fully capable of intelligence.
One possible criterion for tie-break: their rivals/hosts. Imagine the Imperium facing a Flood outbreak. The Inquisition burns planets to a crisp for threats much less apparent than grotesque parasites, and the Astartes are basically an army of Master Chiefs. On the flip side, though, imagine a flood spore getting into a Psyker and/or attracting Nurgle's attention? Fucking scary. Alas, I can't see things ending well for Halo soldiers facing a Tyranid hive fleet. Buuuut, I will admit to knowing far less about the Haloverse than about 40k.
oh i'm on the halo side of lore here but i'll tell you Tyranids would absolutely wipe the floor with most things from the halo universe, they just so OP.
I mean psykers are unstable as is so would probably just turn the flood insane what with all the crazy warp stuff happening and leave it as a blubbering fool. Then again do the flood even possess a warp presence? Do they have souls? The necrons are soulless and immune to the corruption of Chaos while Tau for example have no warp presence and have only been corrupted twice I think and only due to extremely long exposure to the warp.
You gotta remember that while the tyranids, as far as I'm aware, need to physically consume biomass to add it to their ranks, the flood do not. Basically what I'm saying is the imperium can fight the tyranids because the tyranids aren't an infection per say. Flood spores are capable of infecting and converting promethean warrior servants in mere hours, or even days and I'm sorry but s ok ace marines pale in comparison to warrior servants. A spartan is about a quarter or even a third of a space marine, but as we all know from that quote in halo 1 "I recommend upgrading to at least a class 12 combat skin, your current model is only class 2" Spark basically says that Mjiolnir armor is 10 grades below recommended flood containment armor. Like holy jesus, and imagine a space marine infected by the flood....just madness. All in all the flood by being an actual infection that you can contact through the air or through contact with flood biomass makes it much more effective than almost**** anything the Tyranids can produce
@@colesrandomtoybox2676 yes yes but we're talking tyranids and not flood right? Well in that case let's introduce you to nurgle, humans, and tau. The humans in halo actually cured the flood, with the mild problem that at that point they were retreating so hard that they were in forerunner territory... Yeah nice a galactic empire working together barely made a cure. But they made a cure. Now the tyranids might actually be immune cause they can start to fight off the life eater virus. Sure they can't beat it yet but they got so close that the imperium can't virus bomb anymore. A virus made during the dark age of technology. In other words it's a galaxy of humans who could make tech that could destroy planets and solar systems in minutes. Fun fact terminator suits were suits used for manual labor in the dark age of technology. Yes tech that can survive a melta cannon which is at least 4 million degrees celsius, cause otherwise fusion wouldn't happen. Is a thing made for manual labor. The life eater virus was designed for war. Yeah the tyranids might actually be able to not just cure the flood but completely demolish it. Don't forget they are doing this while nurgle is throwing stuff at them. Nurgle, the god of disease can't infect them (partly cause the tyranids are too adaptable but maybe cause the warp fueled diseases can't do anything.) Only time any toxin or virus worked is cause the tau used plot armor and a virus while the tyranids were attacking and less able too adapt.
I would say the Tyranids, for a reason that not many have mentioned: Self-sufficiency. Ignoring all other matters for a moment (like numbers, potential, adaptability etc.), between these four here the Nids are simply the most complete pachage out of all of them. The only thing they require is bio-mass, just bio-mass, in whatever form it might be. For example, put a few Flood spores or a Marker or a few fero gatherers on a, say, forrested planet that only has trees and plant life or heck, lets through in a few simple animals, and all these plagues would do is very limited in scope. Starting of, the fero swarm will just consume everything and just faf around because of it's programming. The Marker will start the very slow progress of evolving whatever sentient life there might exist (if any) and the Flood will also seek to infect sentients which, again, if there aren't any or if they are just simple animals, it will be stuck on the planet for a long, long time. The Nids on the other hand will consume the whole planet in a matter of days, accelerated by the fact there is no resistance and hence no need to develop combat forms, and after cosnuming the planet they will create literal organic FTL spaceships and proceed to consume more planets. The Nids just work on a whole other level.
The Flood and Nids are extremely similar, both have consumed countless species and planets and both have the knowledge to make ships as the Floods knowledge transfers from Gravemind to Gravemind. But the Floods influence across the universe is unknown and likely to have spread into multiple galaxies, as no matter how many times they've been destroyed or defeated they've always come back.
@@Beau_Gan I think you fail to look past any fanboy-ism here for anything Halo. Look up the general basis of the Tyranids. They consume ALL biomass... Meaning all plant life, all sentient and non-sentient life, water, etc. When the Nids are done with a planet, it leaves a barren rock behind. The only thing that would be left is the buildings (the debris that remained) and the crust of the planet. Every form of life, or anything needed for life would be turned into biomass. Everyone always wants to say how the Flood is so much better than the Nids because of their intelligence absorbing abilities, and how it's better than the Nids. Here's the thing, the Flood will go dormant on a planet if there is no intelligent life to be consumed. The Tyranids on the other hand, everything that is living or needed for living, it's all fucked. And once consumption is done, they move on to the next planet. Need I mention that the Tyranid ships are A LITTERAL GIANT FUCKING TYRANID? And the Nids are stupidly adaptable to any situation. The can make combat forms that are strictly designed to deal with the Flood. Gg all alien races.
@@TheRaven-WingGaming You have a good point but you're wrong, once a Flood outbreak has gathered enough biomass (could be literally anything) their Gravemind will form into a Keymind a.k.a a planet sized Gravemind and they wouldn't go dormant as the Graveminds knowledge includes the ability to teleport as shown in Halo 2 (If one Gravemind knew how to do something all Graveminds at the same time and after know how to do it).
@@Beau_Gan Yes, but the Tyranids are adaptive to OP'd levels. Yes, I won't lie/deny that they would get pretty fucked up after the first 20-50 encounters, but the Flood is limited on its adjustment. The Tyranids, once they figured out what the weaknesses of the Flood were, they would make specialized bio-forms and bio-titans that are strictly designed to deal with the Flood. Not to mention certain Tyranids forms can LITERALLY shoot BIO-ACID, which is not very good to have on flesh, which is what the majority of the Flood is, morphed flesh, where as the Nids have plating. I won't deny, I don't entirely know how a battle like that would go down, but I'd pay to see it.
@@TheRaven-WingGaming And the flood would overwhelm and destroy whatever form they created, remember the Forerunners had tried 1000 other plans and failed including but not limited to creating creatures designed to deal with the Flood. At one point they tried using the Lekgolo (the worms that make up Hunters) to fight the Flood because they aren't susceptible to infection due to a lack of nervous system, but the Flood just killed them and added them to their biomass.
@@SGT-SackWack Nahh technocite virus (the infested from Warframe) is so much more. It can infect even machines and fuse byological and non-biological with even robitic things. Prime example would be Jordas Golem. AI fused with ship and with biological crew turned into mush. What you get? Massive infested space ship with inteligence of AI durability of best space ships and regenerative abilities of organic beings. If you ask me thats scarier than flood.
The biggest strength of Unitology/Necromorphs isn't at all the actual organisms, it's the the phycological power of the Marker. Any "invasion" wouldn't be a front on attack, it would be a slow corruption from within, slowly turning the peoples of any faction, against themselves, by coercing them into making more Markers, and distributing. A large pull, is that they also don't see it as an invasion, but a uplifting. This can lead to faction infighting to try and continue the spread. Stopping Unitology, comes down to how far the corruption has gone.
Lets put that into say the star wars universe. An invasion would likely start in the unknown regions where you have lots of aliens, some even have their own ships and colonies. Any species that has yet to discover space flight would likely be consumed as food or to create new moons. Markers would be sent out to corrupt the minds of any species still evolving on their planet or to fall into the hands of space faring species. In the time of the empire, one such marker ended up in the known galaxy and through the physiological effects, be seen as something more. Showing them with the dream of glorious convergence. With organized religion being banned in the empire, this new religion would start off underground becoming something of a mix of rebels and unitologists. Like the rebellion, this religion would spread but as a more peaceful movement, fighting for the right to practice their new found beliefs in glorious unity of mind, body, and spirit. On an imperial controlled planet, this peaceful movement becomes more hostile after one of their markers is either found on the planet, or perhaps brought to the planet. The Empire, would try to destroy it, resulting in a mass riot resulting in thousands of deaths. The imperial troops would find the marker isn't easy to destroy, perhaps being made of some new material the Empire could use. So the forces on the ground start to move the marker to the space port to bring it up to a waiting star destroyer. One of many in the imperial blockade erected in response to the previous event. Many of the troopers and imperials on the ground would become more violent, willing to kill anyone for any reason. Citizens begin to fight back not only getting them selves killed, but also killing some of the imperials. Eventually, bodies start to vanish along with random citizens and storm troopers. The marker is taken aboard but before they could leave, a mass exodus of ships flee the planet. Reports of an infection killing people spread. To ensure the blockade holds, and prevent this infection from spreading, the ships open fire on the escaping civilians. Some of which end up crashing into the hull of warships, if not brought into the warships via tractor beams. No one escapes, but now, reports of an attack begin to spread form ship to ship. Many ships go silent, some are even destroyed, but very people survive. Assuming no message made it back to the rest of the empire, a new moon would be born with any survivors either left insane or with the mental blueprints to build more markers. They would be recovered by an investigating imperial fleet or by the growing rebel movement or even by the religious cultist.
I don't know if you know, but Tyranids have a similar psychological effect due to their distortions of the Warp. And their Genestealer Cults are actually very similar to Unitology.
Honestly, The Flood. A single spore can reproduce on a scale that I can't even explain. A single world can fall within days, the technology would be assimilated and improved. They were even known to control Halos and turn A.I.s against there creators.
I disagree. While a problem, the 'normal' answer to tyranid invasion is 'Blow up the planet'. When you face a foe where it is easier to sacrifice an entire world than to actually face it... Kinda wins the arguement.
@@charleshammond7921 I partially agree in that it is better to go ahead and wipe a world than let the flood take it. However, given the horrible response times of the imperium, it would be nearly impossible to arrive in time with warp travel to yeet exterminates ordnance into it. By the time an imperium force arrives to any moderately populated planet, it’s too late. Hell half the imperium ships will probably arrive in the wrong location anyway XD. So really the imperium would have to get lucky and hope the flood arrives in systems with massive imperium fleets, or that they somehow arrive in time to burn the planets. If the flood have to use warp travel it might mitigate that some, but even then a gravemind would just travel to many worlds each time and I’m sure a couple will fall with each wave
@@charleshammond7921 This is also a normal protocol for a forerunner, with also the detonation of supernova and creation of black holes as defens, I think they are pretty similar in this
Personally, I don't think the Faro swarm was really given a proper representation in this video. the initial concept of the swarm did not use true AI and had instead used an advanced, non-sapient combat algorithm to dictate the swarm's actions as well as learn from enemy contact (HADES is more akin to a HALO "dumb" AI and it only took control of the swarm's husk for a very short time almost a millennia after it ravaged Earth.) As such, it was stuck with only 3 designs and "wave attack" tactics. Had a true AI such as a GAIA or Cortana-equivalent been in control, the designs would have likely evolved/multiplied and more advanced tactics would have been used.
There's another thing that's getting misrepresented in this argument too which is the fact that the Flood aren't helpless against non-organic combatants either. During the Forerunner Flood war, the Forerunners tried using powerful robotic units controlled by an AI EXPONENTIALLY more powerful than GAIA called Mendicant Bias (we're talking powerful enough to defeat GAIA, Halo 5 Cortana, Rasputin from D2, and Skynet all combined) The Flood created a digital virus called the Logic Plague which turned the robot units against the Forerunners, even infecting Mendicant Bias. The Farro and some tough SOBs but there's no way in hell they can overcome the Logic plague with comparatively ancient cyber security features
@@timeydoesstuff They do, if you kill enough of a certain enemy, they'll start adding parts to make it harder to kill them the same way. If you want to see it, kill a storm bird, the next one will be quite a bit more difficult. Also, play on hard, otherwise it's not as noticeable.
@@catholicpatriotusa1507 Even if the Logic Plague doesn't work on the Faro Plague, what's stopping the Gravemind from using Mendicant Bias or some other A.I. converted by the Logic Plague to Brute Force their way into the machine's programming like in Zero Dawn, only probably a lot faster?
just imagine if the flood and Tyranids combined, highly specialized combat and infection forms with a skill sealing that is unparalleled by anything else.....
Tbh I can see the Flood and Tyranids working together as they both want Bio mass and to spread. Fighting eachother would be completely pointless as they'd just gain biomass but then lose it the next day to the opponent.
The Devourer Plague is born. It would be a good idea to team up with the gravemind in order to try to destroy the pharaoh plague, or maybe just call the silent king somehow
@@thegreatdevourer1020and with the tyranids evolution and almost instantaneous learning capabilities? The universe would be doomed bro. Wonder how the Orkz would react to it.
People talk about the Tyranids, but the Flood, once grown far enough, can warp time and space itself like they did at the end of the forerunner war. The Tyranids are incredibly powerful but they can't warp space itself. I think, I could be wrong though, there's always some Warhammer lore that can prove you wrong lmao.
old comment i know but they can warp space. when the tyranids swarm a planet their presence in the Warp is so massive it distorts it and prevents proper warp travel, basically isolating the planet from the imperium.
@@averylei4236 that's true, but the flood should be able to do that AND teleport, aswell as apparently bend time, pr atleast it's perception. Although this is me rehashing what has already been said in comments so could be wrong I'm willing to bet it's true
They have very powerful Psykers which can pretty easily warp space. Psychic powers, manifesting both physically and mentally, are actually very central to how the Tyranid swarm functions. Tyranids are also capable of *preventing* others from warping space which is what the first reply was referring to, and is another central reason why they are so dangerous in a universe full of super-soldier space wizards.
@@DoctorGrim456 The scary thing is if all of those are done through the Flood's pure psychic influence, then that'd be awful for them encountering the Tyranid's due to the natural "Shadow in the Warp" which to go into more detail about what the first common said, what it effectively is, is the Tyranid's pure psychic influence is so substantial and overwhelming, it entirely dwarfs all other forms, preventing any kind of psychic abilities to function or psychic communication, which could in theory behave like a direct counter to many other hivemind's way of communication. I'm not sure if other fictional hiveminds would be able to counter this as well as lacking the ability themselves.
hey bro fellow Halo lover um I don't know much Warhammer but I do know that the most probable outcome will be the flood being outnumbered and whipped out as they won't have enough time to produce any pure life forms or grave minds I'm pretty sure teranids "spelt wrong" have a literal hell presence and are just already to far above the flood in terms of development" please prove me wrong"
@@jeanmouloude But only because she got a deus ex machina Metroid vaccine before the X-Parasite consumed her. Literally *anything* not either a Metroid or something with that cellular immunity or gets sealed away where the X can't get to them gets taken over and killed. Plus it's capable of adapting to situations. When it realizes that Samus becomes more vulnerable to ice as a result of the vaccine, it starts using the cold to try and freeze her. But when she gets the Varia Suit data to combat it, the chilled parasites start avoiding her.
idk...I just dont like wh40k being involved in anykind of "whats better" because every faction over there is just meant to be massivly OP. its like playing a TF2. its "balanced" only because everyone is broken
You are saying that when the Flood is on the list. The one species which has been written to be so OP that it sounds like the fan fiction villain from the works of some ten year old.
I mean, here, it's actually kind of fair, with the exception to the Fero Plague, as all of them are galaxy-dooming eldritch hiveminds. Tyranids potentially are kind of just a beat-stick advantage to some degree with how the other two are capable of cellular infestation and not just eating everything else to death.
@@schnoz2372 they're about as pigheaded and vicious as Touhou and Fate fans, now if you don't mind I'm off to play Perfect Cherry Blossom and listen to Last Stardust.
A flood outbreak with the same amount of biomass as the tyranids(forgive me if I misspelt that) do in warhammer 40k do would have thousands if not millions of keyminds, making it the single most sophisticated faction in any SciFi game ever
15000 nukes? Is that all you have? *Nids laughing because of their number* *Flood laughing after using some anti-nuke technology they probably got long ago*
I only really know stuff about the flood, but you missed some stuff. The flood can make their own combatants called pure forms, made of only converted biomass. They are adaptable and some even have ranged attacks. Another thing is graveminds (central flood intelligences) retain the memories of previous graveminds, meaning all knowledge gained by the flood is permanent, even millions of years after the flood gained it. Even if all previous graveminds are destroyed, if the flood regains a foothold the knowledge remains. Also there can be multiple graveminds at once, some even covering entire planets (these are called keyminds). They can also use mechanical tech, being able to "infect" vehicles and ships. This allows them to leave planets to infect other solar systems and the like. They can also do weird psychic stuff like portals but we dont go into that. One more thing is sentient ai can also be converted to the floods side via something called the "logic plague" where a gravemind will essentially convince an ai to join them using all of its accrued knowledge
@@xypherath actually flood have same level of adaptability of tyranids not inferior ones, nanotech doesn't work against them, supernova'ing entire solar systems don't, and they instantly adapted to very specific genetic mutation that was designed to make them turn against each other by ancient humanity by sacrificing 1/3rd of their whole population so no tyranids aren't more adaptable, flood and tyranids have equal adaptability with flood having advantage in instantly infecting hosts and taking their knowlegde and ability to use and even infect technology and AIs tyranids have more numbers, but if it's flood at height of forerunner flood war then nothing short of war in heaven factions can even tickle them
@@infamouspotato2028 tyranids can instantly infect hosts too-- that's part of what a genestealer infestation is about. Read the Ciaphas Cain books-- the tyranids effortlessly infect sentients and worse yet-- they retain their personalities, just have their priorities rewritten by the hivemind-- for that extra element of horror.
@@Xebelan I’m a huge fan of both Universes. A quick note on genestealers, they infect organisms yes but major implications from this are not instant by any means. It takes time for genestealer cults to infiltrate planets to pave the way for a successful invasion. A small flood outbreak can quickly grow to a planetary wide problem in days if it isn’t contained, genestealer cults take years to infiltrate and the hive mind takes some time to arrive to harvest. Both swarms of enemies would be hell to fight honestly lol.
@@aaron5988 Then you know Genestealers can infect soldiers in the time it takes to dig them out of rubble in sources-- enough to turn them on their fellows. Enough so that any suspicious wound on a guardsman will get them shot. The infestation/cult takes years because the way the vanguard works as it tries to spread quietly and painlessly as long as possible-- with some takeovers being relatively bloodless because everyone is infected and so they can send feelers out to as many nearby worlds as possible before the hive ship arrives to devour. It's not because the infestation can't work faster-- it's because it doesn't benefit the Tyranids to.
I agree the Flood overall have more potential. The only problem is that each individual Tyranid is dozens of times stronger than any Flood prior to encountering ant Tyranids. Also the Tyranids could create a new type of warrior that is completely immune to the Flood (at least the virus/host part, rendering their greatest advantage useless) though they would still be able to be killed they would be immune to being taken over and used by the Flood.
Just make them explode the moment a Flood boi tries to parasite them : they won't get anything, and ripper swarms will just recycle the parts on the ground too, smooth evolution.
"I agree the Flood overall have more potential." "the Tyranids could create a new type of warrior that is completely immune to the Flood" Tyranids would do that within a few hours of first tyranid being infected. Flood vs Tyranid hive fleet is the same as pretty much any other fight vs 40k Universe - you lose by default.
Flood infection forms attack the central nervous system killing the host and using the body, while spores that are inside the body while slower will effect the host. Also the flood can use biomass no matter what in pieces or otherwise. Now the logic plague can be used on nonsentient beings but also sentient driving them to madness.
@@jooot_6850 They cant. As fluff states Flood infection cannot properly infect and control beings without central neural cord or/and that are on chitin bases. A big fucking flaw when you are against a race of space bugs.
@@jhr891 wrong, the flood can INFECT anything be it living beings, machines and even space-time itself... literally anything. But they can only EAT biomass and have DIRECT CONTROL over things with a nervous system, Anything without a nervous system is then manipulated, they keep their life and consciousness but have a fake sense of free will, as their minds are already controlled by the flood without them knowing, one example of this instance is the Logic Plague which so far has infected living beings and artificial intelligence constructs.
@@PoppyPoppa nope read the fluff first. UNRETCONNED info states that they cant directly control anything without central neural system and its nigh-impossible for them infect chitin basis lifeforms. Why do you think Halo rings only wipes out sentient life and not life itself. Also Tyranids are basically all animals with few notable exceptions and even those exceptions are more like living antennas which means Graveminds cant hack into Hive mind. Not to mention, while Flood is not controlled by a singular entity but the clusters of Graveminds that can fuse, Hive mind is monolithic and also so powerful even space hell gods crap their pants when it's near. Every psychic sensitive being goes mad with the just arrival of the Tyranid fleet into the system. Forming Gravemind would just overload from sheer psychic pressure and even galaxy spawning Gravemind wouldn't be able to perform its space magic anywhere near Hive mind presence since its works like scrambler for all things psychic.
Dont forget that the flood also has something called neural physics, where once knowledge is absorbed into the hive, it is permenatly a part of it, even if the gravemind and all the flood is destroyed, the knowledge remains. A new gravemid inherits this knowledge when it is created.
tryranids don't have individual knowledge but the knowledge is stored in the hive I don't really know how that works but I know there's more tyranids then there are flood sure under the circumstances the flood would win but they don't have those circumstances
@@justanotherguywithoutamust2701 just gonna put it out there but we all can agree that the further a flood infection is, is when they start curb stomping the nids, a flood infection at its base is nothing more then a parasite with overwhelmingly high caps on power, nids in the WHM40k universe have already reached there theoretical cap and the only thing left for them is to finish the universe off, that being said it heavily relies on if the flood have a grave mind or not, if not the flood essentially have a stalemate of not being able to win at all and just exist in the universe, while if they do get a grave mind then that is when the scale of power tips towards the flood, a grave mind at its lowest knows about the technology of any past flood infection including the forunner flood war, that alone is enough to exponentially increase the power of the infection, the flood also have the ability to gain knowledge its self, and if given the chance can most likely overpower the nids own central intelligence and take it for itself, at that point the nids lose, and the flood proceed to move on to a transdemensional stage in under a few years based on the universe they are in.
@@justanotherguywithoutamust2701 Id like to point out a misconception people have with the creation of a grave mind, it actually has nothing to do with the consumption of intelligent species and is based purely on the considerations of bio-mass, when there is sufficient bio-mas there is the gradual "re-awaking" of previous existing intelligence of grave-minds. Admittedly the consumption of intelligent species does accelerate this but it is not necessary in terms of the re-awaking intelligence.
I think the Tyranids are just a bit underestimated here. In terms of intelligence, for example, the Tyranids actually show examples of extreme malevolent intelligence, with psyker-assisted hivemind "one-ness". Look at Zoanthropes, who actually possess direct psychic connections to the Tyranid queen, a creature theorized to span the size of a galaxy and possess nigh-infinite intelligence. Their intelligence is her own, thus meaning that the intelligence of the Tyranid queen manifests through a physical proxy. As well, look at Hive Tyrants, who are biologically and intellectually immortal, in that the Tyrant is intelligent enough to learn and refine it's method of slaughter. If killed, it's body and mind can both be consumed back into the hive via Tyranid spawning pits, and can be resurrected with it's mind intact, and now having learned from previous mistakes, making it wiser. The flood are intelligent, but the Tyranids are just plain overpowered, as like most things in Games Workshop's universe.
The Gravemind of the flood that fought the Forerunners (the most powerful the flood has ever been) was able to completely outsmart the super AI used against it. Another comment here describes how it could access and use technology far beyond the Forerunners to easily wipe out some of their strongest defenses. I'm not expert on Tyranids but the Gravemind's immense intelligence is also not to be underestimated.
@@KingdomOfDimensions read about the Hive Mind. Anything with a mind that even comes close to it's general vicinity would liquefy. The shadow in the warp would most likely stress out the Gravemind, to put it mildly.
@@Lycurgus1982 Thats not really anything special in 40k. Psykers get their minds blown (literally) all the time by the horrors of the warp, which is what the Tyranids use to cause this.
@@plasmakitten4261 "Mainstream" Yet, Marvel, DC, and Doctor Who show 40K who's the boss... Hell, I would say even ancient Halo is more or less equal to ancient 40K in terms of power...
@@plasmakitten4261 When unified, the Chaos Gods can reach the power to destroy pseudo-universes inside the Warp. In both Marvel and DC, destroying universes singlehandedly isn't that impressive...
Hum...the Xenos actually have a pretty good defense against being infected. Their blood is really highly acidic even to the point of melting/eating away at the Yajuta metal.
Xenomorph invades ship and kills everyone and lays eggs Tryanids invades and converts a massive bloody space church later invades planet and starts to transform whole system into a hive to breed and start all over again Who would win
hype_Lenin Lenin if the flood can adapt to the high acidity of blood, then gg but their knowledge and iq would be no use for the flood. But how dare we speak against our glorious leader lenin
I personally think the technocyte virus in Warframe is the most terrifying since it runs 1. Runs on a hivemind, 2. Can infect BOTH living and mechanical/artificial begins and 3. Has a near 100% infection rate.
Isn't that just a weaker flood? The floods pretty much just that but it absorbs knowledge as well. Infact as soon as any knowledge is found by a flood it's permanently apart of the flood even if it never touches or is learned by a sperate hive of it. When a grave mind is formed it gains all knowledge from every other grave mind that's ever existed
Tyranid psychic abilities should not have been glossed over in this video. One specific aspect of their psychic gestalt could be the deciding factor in an overwhelming Tyranid victory. The Shadow of the Warp is capable of blocking out communications from every source in Warhammer 40K. With enough force, the Shadow of the Warp can even seal shut Warp rifts, tears in reality itself, overcoming another dimension that is arguably far more dangerous and unpredictable than Slipspace. If the Shadow in the Warp is capable of affecting the Flood's collective consciousness, it would effectively be able to leverage local superiority in every single engagement by reducing all Flood forms within the Hive Fleet's range to their individual intelligence, simultaneously blinding the Flood's combined consciousness regarding what is happening in every single AO and stripping them of their advanced tactical and strategic abilities, including potentially harnessing other technology and weaponry. Considering that the Shadow of the Warp possesses a range exceeding that of an entire solar system, there is very, VERY little chance of outranging or circumventing the Hive Fleets and their Shadows of the Warp, should this ability be effective. Honestly, the only option at that point may be to seek out Halo Arrays in an effort to achieve mutual destruction. Even the Flood Infection Forms of an opening-stage outbreak are still capable of coordinating with one another in an effort to expand. But if the Shadow of the Warp is effective, even this coordination would be utterly gone unless they can communicate and apply tactics through some other method such as pheromones or auditory input.
@@internetzenmaster8952 Definitely, I worded carefully in case neural physics was somehow immune, but considering how immaterium-based shenanigans can affect even machines and inanimate objects in 40K (with one example being our beloved Greenskins), I find this very, very doubtful. IMO, best case scenario for the Flood is that their neural physics system would be unknown to the Tyranids until the Hive Fleet got a proper hold and understanding of their genetic material. Considering how much the Flood throw away in even small-scale engagements, I can't imagine they'd be able to keep that from the Hive Mind for long at all. Hours, maybe. Also, I can't imagine how horrifyingly powerful the Tyranids would get if they found a way to harness Flood Super Cells. Good lord.
This topic is interesting I happen to know more about the flood then tyranids, so from what I can tell you the flood would like have no issue's consuming tyranids not to underestimate tyranids but the flood is unstoppable once it hits a certain point, literally being able to warp time and space I don't think they would have any issue destroying just about any race if they got to that point nothing can really stop them, hence why the forerunners destroyed all life in the galaxy to stop the flood just look at how fast the flood took over high charity if you take the flood and give it several key minds then every flood combat form is micro managed by the keymind every millisecond making it nearly impossible to fight in 1 on 1 combat since it is able to jump to insane height your basically fighting 1 creature with insane intellect now take that one creature and make it able to infect any biomass that exists tyranids are not immune to having their biomass taken since the flood uses dead tissue (it literally makes humans kill themselfs when it takes their bodies) so any tyranid that dies to the flood becomes the flood and the flood will learn everything the tyranids know since its a hive mind.
BrewChuTrain the thing is it really depends on if the Shadow in the warp will affect the flood. This ability in general cuts off any psychic communication. So the fight would depend on if the shadow works. Say it does work, the flood revert to the base instincts of the combat forms and all coordination falls to verbal orders if that can be achieved. This gives the Tyranids a much better chance to win the fight as Tyranids also can consume dead bio mass to repopulate. Granted at a slower rate. If the Shadow doesn’t work then yes flood will most likely out think the Tyranids and win the day.
@@TreyHardin28 Very interesting, I should really take the time to read up on tyranid lore seems really interesting, My thoughts are the flood would likely be smart enough to know about such a thing and take counter measures to avoid it I guess it really comes down to a couple things but don't forget one single flood spore can destroy an entire species .
@BrewChuTrain Yeah I just recently got into Warhammer so I’m no expert but I find them very interesting. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the flood require a central nervous system to infect a creature.
Great video but several things were missed about the necromorphs, first they can utilize any Biomass but need Sentient Beings to form a Brethren Moon, and like the flood they can create pure forms. The necromorohs also spread a virus like the Flood, this virus seems to do the same as the flood does and assimilates and changes dead cells into a cell like version of the virus, essentially transforming them. Third, Necromorphs are never killed they are simply stopped from attacking, and will be reabsorbed to use as biomass. Finally we don’t know if the Brethren Moons are the Necromorphs final stage, while so far we haven’t (and most likely will not) see what happens if the brethren moons are endangered enmasse, it would seem possible for them to combine into something larger and more dangerous.
@lairum hurb Zerg cannot even conquer a single sector... Zerg got routinely halt by the Terrans... Zerg need to amass their forces just to take Korhal... And you're saying the Zerg isn't weak???
@asian lee Btw, the Beast would beat the Flood and the Tyranids... It's basically the Flood but can infect non-oraganic matter as well... Though the Blight from another franchise would trump the Beast... The Blight is basically the Flood with instant Chaos corruption...
@@robertnelson9599 how can a plague that turn you into a daemon of nurgle not being special is considered one if not the most powerful and dangerous plague of nurgle
Id say spartans win. Easy difficulty. But thats if we dont take biotics as a factor. With biotics idk thats a hard topic to determine. And as for pilots id be willing to bet that a spartan who weighs in at 1000lbs in armor and can run about 35mph could in my mind easily and quickly climb a titan, punch through the " face " of the titan, and rip the pilot right out of his seat. I also feel that if a pilot self destructed that it wouldnt do much either as spartans are pretty hardy. After all in the beginning of halo 3 we see master cheif fall from FKING SPACE lol and basically just stands up and shrugs it off like its another day at the office.
@Bence Kálmánczhelyi But the pilots destroy any n7 since I heard their training has like a 1% or 2% survival chance which means they are the best of best of best of the best.
Pilots lose against either of the other factions. SPARTANs are the more physically powerful soldiers, but the Alliance has way more advanced weaponry. It's a toss-up that'll come down to what kind of tech and biotics you give the Alliance.
Dramatic_Gaming idk pilots can go even in my book, pilots have the maneuverability, phasing dimensions tech, camo, crawling mines, exo suits, and damaging heavy weapons
My honest opinion is that the flood represent a bigger threat. I love the nids, and I am a HUGE Warhammer fan. I definitely get more involved with 40k than Halo, but the fact is, the flood have more immediate potential. The Halo rings were even designed to wipe out all life in a large area as a contingency plan against the flood. One flood spore, while week at first, can easily lead to an entire galaxy in danger in a pretty impressive amount of time. But, with tyranids, it's not like you can have one gaunt make planet fall and that planet is pretty much already screwed. Tyranids need to already be advanced to a certain degree to be a planetary threat. That being said, once tyranids make it to that point, I feel like the tyranids become MORE deadly than the flood. So it really depends on what kind of timeline we are looking at
Exactly, also the flood descended from a species that literally created life and could fly through the universe using technology that could wipe out everything.
@@Pano1 that doesn't really matter as the only precursor technology/techniques they utilize is neural physics in the form of the logic plague and neural assimilation.
@@Pano1 it kinda doesn't because until the flood are very well along in their evolutionary line via assimilation of species, they possess none of the precursors more potent reality bending abilities. Near the end of the forerunner-flood war they were reaching this state but were stopped by the firing of the halo array
It's worth remembering that nids are typically dependent on the hive as a hole. We have never seen what them building from scratch looks like. How much can the 'queen' do alone? Can nids use a more subtle strategy seeding from a single organism that can grow and reproduce into all the base needed bioforms from rippers to bioships? What is more fundamentally dangerous depends on how little is needed to turn into a galactic or intergalactic threat imo. Nids have there own ships but how easily can they make a new one from just what is on a planet. We do sort of see this in the dawn of war 2 nid faction campaign where it seems we start with little more than a hivetyrant, grunts, and other leftover bioforms from a destroyed fleet. Without suitable host with Interstellar capabilities the flood can't really do much on the other hand. So nids seem to need the hive fleet where as flood need an interstellar civilization.
Ray Anderson well based on the sheer fact that Orks act as a fungal force. Not really assimilating anything more just like.... a planetary cockney accented mold it makes sense as to why they aren’t.
The Faro Plague is not intelligent enough for that to work. It's not a true AI, just a robotic hivemind that's got its programming stuck in Seek and Destroy mode.
-Could a Dead Space Marker affect a Flood Gravemind? -Could a Dead Space Marker affect the Tyranids? -Could the Faro Plague robots absorb the biomass of the other Parasites on this list? -Could the Flood Gravemind eventually take control over the Faro Swarm or would it be too difficult for it? -If a Flood Gravemind has absorbed every (or most) of the Milkyway's biomass, would it be more intelligent than the Tyranid's Hivemind? -Could any of the parasites take over a planet that is being devoured by the Faro Plague? (I'm not sure, it probably depends how far they are as the Markers seem to only work on intelligent beings like humans, the Tyranids take a lot of time to prepare and harvest a planet, meaning they'll have some setbacks with those robots consuming the biomass they need. The flood probably has the best chance as they don't need intelligent beings, but they do prefer it so they can quickly make a proto-gravemind.) -Would the Tyranids even attempt to interrupt Zero Day (the moment the Faro Plague has consumed all of Earth's biomass)? -Could the Faro Plague/Swarm eventually advance enough to travel to other planets to continue their endless 'need' for consumption?
Regarding the question of if a Gravemind can take over the Faro Swarm, the answer to that is almost certainly: Yes. The Logic Plague in the hands of a Gravemind is one thing, as its designed primarily to subdue AI. However in the hands of a Keymind, the Logic Plague can be used to infect literally any form of intelligence, no matter what form it takes. Keyminds in the Forerunner-Flood War used something called Neurophysics in tandem with the Logic Plague to infect space-time itself, an arguably much more difficult feat than infecting the Faro Swarm. I also doubt the marker could affect a Gravemind, as if some humans are immune to its effects, then all it takes is a singular flood spore infecting any immune creature, to make the entirety of the flood across all reality immune. If the Flood has access to a Keymind, I'd be confident saying it wins practically every engagement. However if the flood can be stopped before it can create a Keymind, then its easily the weakest of the mentioned factions in the video.
@@titantheguardian7524 Exactly. If a mere human can be resist it for years on end, then imagine something which is so far beyond human intelligence that it doesn't even consider us microbes.
I have to give this to the Tyranids, and if the reader will indulge my loquacious nature, I can explain why. I think many people, including Eckhart's Ladder, may be misunderstanding the Tyranid lore a little here. It is not that the Tyranids are unintelligent or bestial, but rather that their intellect is alien, and utterly unlike that of any creature such as a human or even a powerful AI. An individual lesser Tyranid form like a Hormagaunt may be no more intelligent than a dog, and a creature like Hive Tyrant might have the equivalent of greater than genius level post-human intellect, focused solely on tactics and strategy, but both are only tiny motes of the collective Tyranid Hive Mind, whose alien consciousness simply doesn't operate on the same level or in remotely the same way as the mind of a being like a human, and AI, or even the Flood collective, but different does not necessarily mean lesser. The Hive Mind operates on an intergalactic scale and a time frame measured in aeons - it is the definition of a long game player. A war that lasts ten thousand years means but little to species that operates on timescales that canonically measure in hundreds of millions or billions of years. The sheer disparity in scale of numbers and time frame over which action is taken between the Tyranids and all other factions on the list is difficult to even express clearly. Eckhart's Ladder suggests that the Tyranids have made relatively inefficient use of the biomass they have harvested from multiple galaxies, but we don't actually know what they have done with the vast majority of it. In the 40K canon, the Tyranid Hive Fleets so far encountered are only the first, tentative scouting forces - the merest tendril tips of a incomprehensibly vast intergalactic monster that is coiling around the Milky Way. The greater bulk of the Swarm is still on its way, and the Hive Fleets have the biological templates for many more bioforms the Imperium has never codified because no one who has encountered them has ever lived to tell the tale. We just don't know how strong the Swarm really is, but the fact that the Silent King of the Necrons (the leader of a hyper-tech faction at least on a technological par with the Forerunners and with technology so advanced it let them defeat the C'tan, who were to all intents and purposes gods who could warp physical reality at will to the extent of going bowling with Black Holes for fun - we are talking multiple beings each of whom was Thanos with the full Infinity Gauntlet/Doctor Manhattan powerful and then some) has returned from journeying beyond the Milky Way and is to put it very mildly indeed worried about the Swarm gives you some idea of the true scale of the threat. Eckhart's Ladder also state the the Tyranids are focused only on consumption and replication, but we don't know that. The lore makes it clear that no other faction in the 40K continuity even begins to understand the Tyranids - their origin or their true motivations and goals. When the Tyranids consume and replicate, that could be a goal unto itself or the means to an unknown end - we don't know, and we don't know because as I have already observed the Tyranids come with an extensive dose of Lovecraftian horror, meaning that their unknown and likely unknowable nature is very much deliberate, not accidental. That the Tyranids may well have a purpose beyond straightforward consumption is hinted at repeatedly in the lore. Not only does the Swarm show a strong grasp of tactics and strategy on levels from individual skirmishes up to a coordinated galactic invasion on literally thousands of simultaneous fronts (and the hint that they may well be invading multiple galaxies at the same time, with the entire 40K setting being merely one war front among many for the Swarm), but the most recent codex describes Tyranid behaviour at odds with the idea of a strictly migratory swarm of Galactic locusts with no greater purpose behind its actions. One of the Tyranid Hive Fleets has dug in around a particular world rather than stripping it an moving on, and has harvested many local solar systems in order to amass a huge quantity of biomass to create a bioconstruct of planet covering scope that amounts to several continents worth of what is described as pulsing encephalic flesh that emits truly vast quantities of Tyranid psychic energy, so much so that the Shadow in the Warp is unprecedentedly potent in that vicinity, and will kill even the strongest non-Tyranid psykers, or drive anyone else insane, much more quickly than even the more usual Hive Fleet Shadow in the Warp can. This might be a beacon to draw more Hive Fleets to the Milky Way, like the Pharos from the Horus Heresy epoch that first drew the Swarm's attention to this galaxy, but there is no actual evidence that is what this thing does. It is one of the most powerful examples of psychic engineering in the entirety of 40K, and its purpose is a total mystery. I know Eckhart's Ladder wanted to exclude psychic abilities from this discussion, but this speaks to the intelligence of the Swarm and the scale on which it thinks and operates. Similarly, in the new codex, we hear for the first time about Hive Fleet Kronus, a direct response from the Hive Mind to the formation of the Ciciatrix Maledictum and the huge numbers of Daemons entering the galaxy and tainting its biomass. The Hive Mind very quickly adapted a fleet to counter extra dimensional, literally magical daemon armies (a threat unlike any other adversary faced by the Swarm or any other fraction in this list) , and according to the lore Hive Fleet Kronus is extremely good at what it was created to do, steadily stitching the fabric of reality itself back together to preserve the Hive Minds feeding grounds from contamination. That is how good at adapting to threats the Tyranids are - they can deal with enormous armies of reality warping magic demi-god monsters like they are no more than a minor setback, and the fact that the Swarm acted so quickly and with such decisiveness speaks to a honed tactical and strategic sensibility beyond mindless, bestial hunger. As for adaptation of a less esoteric sort, the Swarm has shown an ability to swiftly evolve total immunity to the Life Eater virus, a planet killing bioweapon of such insane potency that it can reduce all other forms of organic life ever encountered by the Imperium into soup within seconds of exposure and vitrify rock in the process, and the Swam not only survived that attack, but harnessed the weapon and went on to use it itself. The Swarm has faced countless super weapons of all forms in the past and has always adapted immunity or otherwise negated or minimised the threat. One silver bullet answer to the Swarm after another has failed miserably, and cultures that rely on that approach have wound up as lunch. As such, the Flood's most central ability - the capacity to subvert the nervous system of other species to seize control - is not a trump card against the Swarm. The Flood uses some biological pathway in their attacks, and the Swarm would not only swiftly evolve immunity to that avenue of attack, but would consume and adapt the Flood method for their own Swarms. It would come down to a race of adaptation on the microscopic, cellular level, and not even a faction like the Borg can begin to match the Swarm on that battlefield, so I think the Flood would be at a profound disadvantage.
@@Fourger14 There is also the point that the single spore infection vector of the Flood is a comparatively weak, unintelligent and easily taken out if discovered creature, where the equivalent infiltration and infection vector vanguard creature of the Swarm is the Purestrain Genestealer, which is basically the critter the Xenomorph hangs pictures of on its wall and hopes to be when it grows up. It is immensely strong and tough, far more so than even most posthumans, quite capable of tearing a fully armoured Astares (the 40K equivalent of a Spartan for those who don't know, but even more heavily augmented, armoured and armed) limb from limb with its taloned hands, and with a second set or arms tipped with rending claws that can carve through tank armour if called upon. It is also the definition of fast and deadly (they even have a rule called that), able to dodge bullets in flight and move far too fast for the unaugmented eye to follow, but its physical prowess is not the true nature of its threat - its bulbous cranium is not just for show, because these things are intelligent, at least as much as a human, and inhumanly patient. A Flood or Necromorph infection vector will begin infecting the first viable host it finds, and will soon tip off any defenders to their presence through their open replication without thought of discovery. Once that happens, the immature infestation can be isolated and cauterised before it builds up enough momentum to be a threat if the defenders act decisively. Conversely, the Purestrain Genestealer is far more subtle than that. Genestealer's hide undetected upon star ships, and the first thing they do upon reaching a viable world is find the best planetside hiding spot they can. Then they begin preying upon the local populace, but not just anyone they come across at any time. They strike at times when they are most likely to get away with it undetected, in the dead of night or during times of chaos and confusion, and they are careful to initially take those who will not be missed, such as the disfranchised and marginalised of the world they are infesting. They use hypnotic powers to incapacitate their chosen victim without undue violence or risk of discovery and pass a measure of their own genetic material to their victim by means of a form of ovipositor, leaving a genetic payload beneath the skin, reworking and changing the victim's mind and germline DNA in a way too subtle to be readily detected by even the most sophisticated technology. Those they infect don't instantly become ravening - and easily spotted - monsters, but instead are psychically slaved to the Genestealer's will but remain outwardly human. They continue to operate undetected in society, and aid the Genestealer in infecting new victims. Perhaps the formerly inveterate addict suddenly and unexpectedly cleans up their act, their former drug of choice holding no further power over them, and starts a new job, perhaps in sanitation, maintaining sewers and drains, thus granting the Genestealer unobserved access to almost any point in a city. Over time the infected procreate with other infected members of their species, and a first generation of Genestealer hybrids come into being. While monstrous in appearance, these creatures are not mindless killers but are quite able to hide their true nature, and the Cult now has enough humanoid infected to provide hiding place for their more mutated kin. And so the Cult slowly grows in number, building its momentum up over time, infesting one layer of the social structure of the doomed world after another, all while the bulk of the populous remain blissfully ignorant of the horror nestling in their midst. The Genestealer that started it all grows ever larger, stronger, more powerful and intelligent, ultimately developing potent hypnotic psychic abilities and becoming a Genestealer Patriarch, head of the brood. Generation after generation of hybrid monsters are born in the hidden, dark places of the world, by the forth generation appearing outwardly entirely human but for baldness and a tendency toward heavy bone structure, making mass infiltration of the host culture even easier for the Cult, with psychically gifted Genestealer magi able to use their powers to spread a religious and/or political creed that influences the entire world and draws more and more people into the fold. The fifth generation are all born as undiluted Purestrain Genestealers, creating a corps of obscenely deadly alien shock troops and the means to exponentially accelerate further infection. If anyone suspects there are monsters in their midst, they find no evidence, only vague and easily discredited rumours of things lurking in the hidden places of the world and preying upon the unwary like fairy tale monsters. Those who dig too deep are discredited or infected and then used to counter their own former theories. What happens next varies. Unless somehow discovered in time - difficult given how much influence the Cult will have accrued within the infested world - The Cult grows strong enough to subvert every arm and level of society and government on the afflicted world. The psychic spoor of the Cult may eventually grow strong enough to draw a Hive Fleet to consume the infested world, the Cult rising up to cripple defences from within even as essentially numberless hordes of bioform killing machines invade from orbit, aiding the Swarm in consuming the world before being consumed in their turn, the Purerstrain Genestealers turning upon their deluded 'children' alongside the Swarm's armies at the last. Maybe the Cult will eventually grow so strong and numerous before the Hive Fleet arrives that it overthrows the government and openly assumes power, enslaving and genetically corrupting the entire populous and setting its sights on attacking neighbouring worlds. Or maybe the Cult remains hidden, its control of planetary government such that it is able to set economic and trading policy, opening interplanetary trade routes to countless other worlds, and hiding yet more Purestrain Genestealers amongst the shipments to doom yet more populations, spreading like a monstrously intelligent cancer from one unsuspecting world to another. It might all take centuries, but Genestealers are functionally immortal and unconcerned with the passage of time so long as their goals are achieved, and the Hive Mind does not conceptualise time as humans do, operating over timescales measured in tens or hundreds of millions of years; a century more or less to ensure the success of an invasion is a small price to pay as the Hive Mind reckons such things. That level of planning. That patience and intelligence. That ability to spread undetected and turn the prey's own cultures, technology and beliefs against them, and all from day one, is one of the many things that makes the Swarm uniquely dangerous. The Swarm takes every precaution and weights every variable in its favour to make sure that its infection, infiltration and subversion creatures of choice have a better chance of longer term and wider ranging success than any equivalent creature from similar factions in science fiction.
Well said. Even the stratagem collective have said that the hive fleet leviathan was merely a forward scout. And that the swarm is coming with great numbers. With the Imperium being split in half and cadia being destroyed I believe the milky way is to far spread out to really defend against it. I think the Necrons are the only hope for the milky way at this point
If it can think or feel pain the flood will win the only way it can adapt against the flood will be to make itself brain-dead or Fry its own nervous system.
How would you rate the Zerg then? I know they weren't in this list ( don't get why not ) but they're fairly similar and evolve at a stupifying rate, even faster now under Abathur than when the Overmind was in control. And they specifically choose what races to assimilate - everything else is just food.
I personally like the Fero plague as the idea of self-replicating, biomass-consuming, heavily-armed, and neigh-unhackable robots is terrifying to me and it’s also a technological rather than a biological plague I think it has a chance against the Tyranids due to the ability of the Chariots being able to consume biomass, could easily kill a significant number of Tyranids, and can self-repair. However, the vast number of the Tyranids would likely be too much The necromorphs are just no bueno as the Markers can’t infect robots and could possibly consume a Brethren Moon As for flood, two words, Logic Plague
The X Parasites from Metroid could easily place on a list like this. In concept they're essentially John Carpenter's The Thing on super steroids just going off of how fast they spread. They're able to consume/replace all life on a planet in a matter of hours. No, that's not hyperbole. The exact amount of X that started the infection aren't known but they can reproduce fast, fly, phase through most materials and the only thing immune to them are the Metroids who also serve as the X's only predator. The X can copy the DNA of their hosts (living or dead), being able to perfectly replicate the form of previous hosts as well as copy their memories and experiences as well. The X can also alter the DNA of the forms they assume to better suit the X's purposes as well as combine the traits of two or more organisms a particular X have copied in the past (this can result in some Cronenberg monstrosities). The X have only been in Fusion and are stated to be in Metroid Dread so there isn't as much information on the X compared to the Flood so we don't know what an end game infection of the X would be like. This is because, as far as the Metroid universe is concerned, an X Parasite infestation is immediate grounds for Exterminatus. The entire planet has to go, the X cannot be allow to survive. If the X assume the form of an intelligent species like humans and spread to 2 or more planets, that's it. Samus is part Metroid and can oppose the X but they reproduce too fast for Samus to hunt them all down, even when confined to the BSL Station in Fusion. X in their base forms are unaffected by Samus' beams and Missiles. Power Bombs are essentially nukes that vaporize most everything in it's radius, but X in their base gelatinous forms are stunned for a few seconds. You need weapons of mass destruction to kill X in their base forms, that by itself is a huge issue.
@@danjoredd In Metroid Fusion, Samus surmised that if they X are able to consume the knowledge of an intelligent species and get access to a ship, they would spread across the galaxy at an exponential rate. We don't know if the X would do that for sure since there was a group of Chozo that attempted to make a settlement on SR388, the X homeworld, long before Samus arrived on SR388 and the X hadn't spread across the entire planet. It's after the Chozo dug into SR388 to harvest it's unique Aeion energy source did the Chozo encounter the X. The one and only priority of the X is the survival of their species, willingly sacrificing themselves in large numbers if necessary. There was an X in Fusion that took the form of a scientist to cause the main boiler on the BSL Station, the space station Metroid Fusion takes place on, to go critical. Had Samus not stopped this, the BSL would have been destroyed and Samus would have been killed along with all the X on the station. There were many powerful X hosts on the BSL including the SA-X, an X clone of Samus at full power. Destroying all of that was deemed a worthy sacrifice if it meant killing Samus, the last Metroid. Another example is when the X adapted to the sub-zero temperature zone of Sector 5. These new blue X would freeze Samus from within if she absorbed them. This would hurt Samus since she's now part Metroid and inherited their weakness to cold. So, these blue X set out to chase Samus down in large numbers so she could absorb them, sacrificing themselves in however many numbers were necessary to kill Samus. The X don't have a hive mind per say, but they are able to work together to stop Samus in several ways throughout Fusion. As we've both stated, the biggest shortcoming of the X in a debate like this is the lack of information. They haven't been in many Metroid games so we don't know how they would react if they had access to intelligent hosts for a long period of time, especially since the X don't share a hive mind like the Tyranids or have the sort of "ancestral memory" of the Flood. The biggest danger is how quickly they can spread and that you need high yield explosives to kill X since Samus' Power Bombs stun X for a few seconds and that's it.
You must have made this Prior to dread showing that yes, they X attempt to go from planet to planet. But the X have multiple advantages over both Flood and Tryranid not mentioned. 1. Hyper evolution/mutation: The X don't just infect a life form, they mutate it to be much more powerful than it was before. If a threat, like Samus, comes along, then it keeps mutating to make even stronger forms, even giving the creatures abilities they never had before. 2. Multiplying while infecting. The X can multiply rapidly while in transformed states. During Fusion, the X were capable of multiplying while they were still transformed as Samus' power suit. According to Adam, there were 10 SA-X on the ship by the end. 10 fully powered Samus could easily take an army. 3. Neigh invulnerability: Metroids we're literally created because not even the Chozo, whose technology once allowed them to rule the galaxy during their waring days, couldn't stop them. They needed something that literally ate life energy to stop them. Outside of a nuke, they are unstoppable. They do have glaring weaknesses. If a gate or strong hold are good enough, it can contain them. While their gel like forms are invulnerable, when they've infected something, that form can be destroyed. Now depending on what they copied, that can be hard to do (SA-X are only harmed by Plasma beams or stronger). Do I think it can take the flood? They can't but only because the X can truly be sealed away behind a dome or underground
@@Tkscz I made my initial post after Dread came out and I beat the game day 1. I just didn't want to state much from Dread to avoid spoiling people who haven't played the game yet.
The imbodiment of Disease is too OP. Dead space like telecommunicated mutated plague, check, corruption of inorganics and AI ,check. Feasting on things at a molecular level through demonic viruses, check. EXISTING IN EVERYMOMENT OF POINT IN TIME AND SPACE IN THE WARP, TRIPLE CHECK.
I say this as a massive Destiny fan: SIVA would get utterly trounced in this competition. It’s cool, but ultimately it’s a human-made virus going up against eldritch abominations from the blackest pits of space
This is actually a really great thing to discuss! If the question is 'which would win if the Flood and Tyranids fought with everything they have with their most recently depicted strengths,' the win goes to the Tyranids for the reason you've mentioned above: They have unknown Galaxies worth of biomass stored up in their reserves, and have perfected a form of rapid adaptation and evolution that responds not only to their environment but the biomass they consume. It's not unheard of for the first wave of tyranid war beasts to die horrific deaths due to a planet's conditions (temperature, toxicity, etc) and each subsequent wave develops biomorphs that allows it to better survive said environments. After consuming an Eldar Craftworld, an entirely new beast began appearing in the Tyranid hive fleets with horrific psychic abilities never seen before. There's even evidence that the Hive Mind dedicates specific fleets to combat specific threats that it finds in the galaxy. Given the Tyranids rapid evolution capacities, I have -no doubt- that the would rapidly develop an immunity to Flood infestation before subsequently adding the Flood's unique biology to the Hive Fleet's toolkit... but this isn't the interesting question. The interesting scenario to consider is this: If a small group of Tyranids were dropped onto a world and -completely- severed from the hive mind... would they pose as much of a threat? Your video does a great job of illustrating the threat of the Flood: A single flood has the biological imperative to spread and propagate and the Gravemind slowly develops as a result of this process. More biomass leads to more Flood, which leads to a greater gestalt intelligence that eventually becomes the Gravemind. Assuming that there's a spaceworthy race (or other method) on the planet that would allow them to escape, a single flood spore can threaten the galaxy. The Tyranids, however, are in a different boat. The basic Tyranid beasts, Hormagaunts and Termagaunts, are certainly deadly in their own right... but without a synaptic link to the Hive Mind they are no more threatening then your typical killing machine with four claws and teeth for days. Only larger or specialized Tyranids can communicate with the Hive Mind through the synaptic link, and thus receive direction to create gestation and digestion pools and collect biomass to convert into new forces. So the real question is this: Would a pack of Hormagaunts have both the capability and the instinct to do what their species has to do in order to reproduce without the direction of the Hive Mind? To that question, I have no earthly idea, and I'll leave that question up to folks who are a bit more well versed in Tyranid lore. Now, Genestealers might be a better comparison though it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges regarding the flood. The Genestealers are, at their base, a highly specialized tool that the Hive Fleets use to both select targets for future attacks as well as undermine the defenses of said targets. They definitely have the instinctual drive that would eventually lead to Purestrain Genestealers, and Genestealer Cults always produce a broodlord that can link to the hive mind.... Eh, this was a fun discussion to bring up!
Whilst the Tyranid Codex I've read multiple times is in no way the latest codex available, I may be able to help with your question on the capability of Hormagaunts and Termagants. Creatures that do not have the synaptic link will follow one of two base instincts: To hide (Which the Termagants have, if my memory serves) or to feed (which is exhibited by Hormagaunts, again if memory serves). So, they will not have the initiative required to gather biomass to fuel an invasion, however they will remain a nuisance, rather than a threat. This means that an invasion without synaptic creatures would be fruitless, the inhabitants of the planet may be killed off but the biomass would simply go unused. However, it also means that killing off synaptic creatures during an invasion would not aid the defenders, as they would still need to deal with all the leftover instinctive creatures. Should the flood realise this (Which would most likely occur from infecting the corpse of a synaptic Tyranid), they may be able to defeat the Tyranids by dismantling this chain of command. Given that Tyranids need to recover biomass to create new troops whilst the Flood simply inhabit the remains of a creature, the Flood would win battles far easier should they be given a chance to counter-attack. As user "Eric Adkins" mentions in his comment, if the Flood were to consume as much as the Tyranids have, they would evolve to a similar point. In such a scenario I would say that the Flood would win outright, as their number would remain somewhat indifferent during battles and they seem more interconnected than the Tyranids. However, at the points they are depicted as being at their peak in their respective lores, I have to agree with Eckharts here in that there are many details that would need to be examined to see which exactly would win. I apologise for any spelling mistakes as well.
to answer hormagaunt reproduction they carry eggs instead of a digestive tract, hormagaunts are on a timer to kill things and then die exhausted on a pile of corpses to feed the eggs, but their larva can eat plant too a hormagaunt usually spawns 20 new ones a day after it dies and has a expected duration of 48 hours in the adult stage and while it has rarely been necessary, given time and the need for it hormagaunts can mutate one to become a synapse creature as i think i remember was a rule in 2e that let you upgrade a gaunt in a squad since nids usually come in ships carrying the hive mind and plenty of spawning pools to drop in new ones if necessary this is rarely used and no longer a rule on TT (it was hell to balance) but that doesnt mean they are incapable of doing that if on a biomatter rich planet and not opposed in the first few weeks a single hormagaunt could turn into hundreds guided by a new synapse hormagaunt devolving some of the newborn into rippers that will form spawning pools and then the real invasion starts a few years later a small and young hive ship will take off from a barren rock termagaunts on the other hand have no way to reproduce as they are produced by host creatures or spawning pools so they are unlikely to lead to a conquered planet
idk, they act very differently to the others, they have different goals as well, they eat tech, the flood take over people, the nids eat planets for breakfast and idk much about the others, would be interesting to see them meet though
Replicators may be interesting. At lower levels, the replicators can strip organic matter for raw materials and at higher levels can use nanites to mimic organic beings. Humans were the biggest thing in the SG verse but if they encounter the other parasites they may end up using the nanites to make flood-form or even tyranid-form replicators.
Replicators would wipe all the other ones just as well if not faster than in season 7 of SG-1. They have a subspace collective knowledge and can adapt extremely quickly.
For multiworld infections, there’s also the Infested from Warframe, The Phyrexians (though not a hive mind) from MtG, Phaazon from Metroid Prime, and the Zerg from Starcraft. There’s a ton more from books and movies, and even more that are planet-bound, but I wanted to bring these up. I’d probably put Zerg and Infested in flood/tyranid tier, phaaze with the necros, and the phyrexians as ‘it depends.’ There’s also the Bohrok, but idk how they’d work on pure flesh.
Phyrexians are probably among the most dangerous in all of fiction because they don't infect flesh, they infect your mind with a new roadmap of fundamental philosophies. Functionally, they infect *your soul* Phaazon reminds me of the Colour Out of Space. Like a lot. Colorful meteor slams into a planet, slowly corrupts everything until everything it touches is just... wrong. Like God-forsaken wrong.
Use the great calamity war for the flood, should be as “equal” to current Tyranid activity (also it’s hinted that everything outside of the Milky Way is flood so they are very much infinite) also flood can very easily take over ships and spread cross planet, as shown in terminal videos in the halo anniversary games, the only reason they didn’t escape the rings is due to containment protocols, and if a flood absorbed, say, an engineer, they could definitely built their own means of space travel, it’s also very possible that the flood are the dead cells of “gods” being the forerunners punishment for killing the undying
Even with ftl travel Key minds wouldn't have been able to reach more than a small part of the universe. No telling what happens if and when they meet a civilization that will give them trouble.
@@CitrusPeppercorn in the anniversary terminals it’s implied the flood are still rampant outside our galaxy and drifting here slowly, there is no specification on life time either, they simply don’t need it
If this was Mass Effect then there would b no flood. Because the Reapers would glass entire planets with scorching lasers rendering the pitiful Flood extinct.
EA Sense of Pride and Accomplishment dude the forerunners already tried that. A full fledged flood controlled universe vs a invasion of reapers isn’t even a contest
@@Aegis_7VII also the flood could infect the Reapers with some form of the logic plague, since the Reapers are machine beings. The flood start on the biological level, but the can infect on the computational, and even quantum level by infecting space time itself. The Flood always wins.
the tyranids tower over the flood, unlike the flood, tyranids are far more flexible, give them an army and they'll create infantry from biomass, give them an empty planet and theyll create gigantic towers and devour it whole in days
@@MMD-mi5vx So I assume your taking a space faring hive fleet as your example? In that case the flood at that point would also be space-faring with a gravemind, but not yet key mind, for them to be at the same stage of development. If this is the case then the flood will simply not fight them on the ground, but in space, where their superior intelligence and technology gives them the advantage. That is what people always fail to consider, the flood will simply out think the nids so that their power and numbers advantage means nothing.
@@ddandymann Heres the thing that will absolutely destroy your point, the flood needs hosts, needs technology to thrive and become intelligent, and even then, if the race it is eating up doesnt have space flight capabilities, it will be stuck forever on that planet, unable to advance beyond that point, but the tyranids thrive on their own, their fleets were not organic copies or possessed ships, they were gigantic organic masses that had developed FTL drives by themselves, by mere instinct! they don't work off of what the enemy has, but rather how they use them, if the enemy has rifles and only goes melee with them, the tyranids will only create melee types, if they have artillery and ship bombardment, they will develop long range organic weapons, in a stand off, the tyranids will most likely win, but those two races are still crazy scary and strong
@@MMD-mi5vx Your argument relies on our ignorance of the nids origin. It is true that the flood in their most basic state are weak, yet for all we know the nids in their most basic state could be even weaker. In the 40k universe it is understood that the nids had already consumed multiple galaxies, in Halo at the height of their power the flood hadn't even finished one. My argument is essentially that the flood increase in power and intelligence far more rapidly than the Tyranids. They went from a few spores to a galaxy wide threat in a few months in two games, and would continue to gain power exponentially. I have no doubt that if both species were at the same stage in development the nids would win, but overall the flood is more dangerous.
@@ddandymann ... the nids ate multiple galaxies, at the highest point of their power they can orbitally bombard planets with live ammunition, since we dont know their lowest im using their most basic form that can only eat and attack
@@ianfitzpatrick4917 The Zerg struggle to take over just one small sector in the galaxy, I doubt that the flood or the Tyranids, who have conquered entire galaxies, would be threatened much by the Zerg. Also, like some of the others have said, the Zerg are based off the Tyranids, and are essentially just a watered down version of what the Tyranids are.
The 'nids aren't really a parasite, I agree. But the Necromorphs are absolutely a parasite. The fact that they require a CIVILIZATION as a host organism has no bearing on their status as a parasite.
@@lorzon No theyre not. A parasite is an external creature that lives off of other creatures. Necromorphs are the way they are because the marker signal makes every cell in a body mutate. There is no external creature involved. You can liken them to zombies, except instead of a virus its a marker signal.
@@kfusion6906 Though the individual necromorphs are not a parasite indeed, the entire necromorph outbreak is a parasite to the civilization in the sense that they cannot live without it, though indeed it is not a direct biological parasite.
I personaly would have put the Faro plague in first place because of several reasons. Fist of all in this ranking there was the limitation of the plagues like the Faro robots are only at earth but if we would imagine that all plagues have the same ways of getting to other planets through a ship for example then the Faro robots would be "deadlier" I shall say. Secound the Faro robots are as Eck said deadly from the beginning but stayed on that level. I have to throw something in addition yes the Faro plauge stayed at that level, but and from now on it will spoiler parts of the storyline in Horizon Zero Dawn, Hades the "Brain" of the plauge wanted to merge itself with the Gaia system if Aloy wouldn´t stoped Hades then Hades would get access to the diffrent Gaia subsystems one of that subsystems is for designing new robots and with access to that subsystem the Faro plauge will get to 100% deadlier and could probably reach a space travel state where it can reach diffrent planets. Third of all all the other plauges would have no chance against the Faro plague because of its biomass converting ability as Eck said the Faro plauge can convert every biological object into fuel so that means it can convert even the biggest lifeform for example the other plagues into fuel. I dont know what timeframe Eck used for this video but I think he used the time before all of what we can see in the game happened. If he would have used the time after the game and with the thought that Aloy wasn´t able to defeat Hades then I would say that the FARO plague is the first place but I think he used the time before Aloy and in this case I would agree with him that the Faro plauge is in last place.
While I am slightly biased towards Horizon, I do feel like the Faro Plague stands a good chance for at least a #3 spot considering that all they need is biomass in order to reproduce at high rates. Additionally, although we don’t know the full capabilities of the Horus Class (the massive long tentacle one) since the only interaction with it thus far was a deathbringer being deployed from it. I also feel that if the flood (or any other species) brought in technologies, or perhaps even AI, I can see the Faro plague potentially making attempts to take over that technology in some way or another, in a similar way to how corrupters instantly turn for example friendly machines instantly hostile and stronger (even more so if you account for daemonation) as well as the machines, if taking over the modern horizon workers (snapmaws, sabertooths, etc.) they have some pretty hard hitters like the rock breaker which can be hard to hit, or the thunder jaw which although containing that center weakness in them, have lots of firepower, even things such as watchers and scrappers can be somewhat useful as a grunt type. Additionally if an intelligence such as the flood attempted to replicate the machines and use machines against machines, then the machines can definitely corrupt those. But hey that’s just my thoughts, let me know what you guys think and if I am missing something (kindly please).
Eventually with enough knowledge and intelligence they can produce ships since why not? They harness the knowledge and intelligence of those it effects, including ship builders. Eventually with the power of Keyminds they can even teleport.
@@scottjones5085 your right i am dumb, inefficiently wasting my time over which fictional parasite is hypothetically better than another, so if you'll excuse me ill go back to my studies of real and functional aircraft. (i'm a college student majoring in AE, and minioring in ME) And a big thank you to @Shane Khiu for being polite and civil in a UA-cam comment section. its such a rarity these days. But you do make a valid point, I was not aware of the teleportation of the flood, mostly as my take of the flood from from the halo games was this: Flood = Very Bad, must kill.
@@emeryhenry1849 I know Scott was a d-bag, but heed my warning: don't gloat about your major/minor until the degree is completed. Those are excellent fields, and you probably are smart, but anyone can study those things and drop them just as easily. Actual completed accomplishments are something worth bragging about, not half completed tasks. In my opinion, that is one of the many great filters of men. People who brag about accomplishments compared to people who brag about half completed failures that they don't realize are failures.
Flood can absorb entire planets worth of production cababilites and the minds to go with them. They _could_ develop their own tech, and in fact when they reach the Keymind stage they kind of do by reclaiming their precursor tech, but it's usually easier for their combat forms to just pick up that assault rifle or plasma pistol and use that than develop an albeit more powerful alternative.
Something to remember about the Flood: It is not a species, per say. It is a type of CELL. More importantly, if we take everything we know about the Flood into account, it's basically the PERFECT cell. After all, the first Flood outbreak was caused by the injection of Flood cells into dog-like animals. Presumably, this means that if the Tyranids attempted to consume Flood biomass, they'd just end up infected themselves. And thanks to the nature of the Flood, it doesn't matter that the Tyranids have an effectively infinite army, even without the ability to turn biomass into more soldiers. Every soldier they send at the Flood is more biomass for the Flood, and therefore more soldiers fighting the Tyranids. The Flood would literally use the weapons of their enemy against them, and chances are it would work. This means that Flood vs Tyranids is less a question of 'who would win' and more a question of 'can the Tyranids harm the flood faster than the Flood can turn their soldiers', and assuming the Flood even got ONE planet's worth of biomass before the big battle, the answer is probably no.
@@joshglover2370 it would be more violent because any cell is capable of assimilating and dooming any living organism, where the flood still relies on it's body and isn't infecting as much
Tbh as a 40k fan I feel a bit cheated versing the halo verse. It’s like if your favourite character that you’ve been following forever and seen through countless hard times and seen grow stronger and stronger.... then he gets paired against some super dude that’s strong because if he wasn’t strong he wouldn’t make sense... then your character gets one hit because the stats say the super dude is just stronger. 40k universe narrative beats your petty flood! >=)
> It’s like if your favourite character that you’ve been following forever and seen through countless hard times I mean, taking #1 with flying colors every time doesn't seem like "hard times" to me but...
Faro Swarm: I will infest your technology! Adeptus Mechanicus: _scared and angry binary beeping_ Necromorphs: Hey that's a lot of dead people you got, can I have it? Adeptus Custodes: Don't let them reach the Emperor! Flood: Yeah uh we'll take your crusades over from here, and your bodies. Salamanders: Smells like Promethium time. Tyranids: . . . Hi. The entirety of the WH40K universe, even those who know no fear: *_screaming_*
Let's teleport a flood spore a few faro nanbots and a necromorph onto random planets each one different. I don't get how each of them would get of planet I think they would all die.
@@idkusernameeggatron4652 The Flood making one Gravemind and *boom* the end of the galaxy, the Gravemind can get all the knowledge of the Graveminds that came before
@@oryxthechadking555 the only problem is… in the 40K universe, if the person was powerful enough, they could quite literally just remove the gravemind from existence with their mind. And since the flood doesn’t have any warp capabilities, there is no defence for that.
@@bestdogshadow383 Don't you know, some of the Primordials are the Flood and the Primordials are technically Gods and the Flood once showed that they have the ability to warp reality
Okay, for the record. The Faro Plague wasn't done enough justice I think. The Faro Plague is immediately the best plague in terms of outbreak. The flood can be stopped early on, necromorphs depend on a civilization developing so the civilization could possibly discover the dangers of the markers and destroy them, and Tyranids are only as powerful as they are because they've had so much time to grow and infect, we don't know how good they are at the moment of their creation.. The Faro Plague, the minute it happened, doomed an entire planet to extinction. Humanity didn't have a chance to defeat the plague thus Project Zero Dawn happened which hid the seeds of life to repopulate the earth after the Faro Plague had ended. Plus, since the Faro Plague FEEDS on biomass, it would be very interesting to see them in a versus against the other plagues in this video since the Faro plague would see the other plagues as nothing more than food and hunt them to their extinction. Also, the the only info we have of the Faro Plague is from the Plague's birth time period, we never got the chance to see the swarm adapt and progress over the same amount of time as the other plagues. The swarm is an intelligent AI, it can adapt. It did adapt against humanity in zero dawn in its tactics. So it is capable of adaptation and high intelligence, it just never got the time to get to a grand scale.
As they said in some of the logs, All life on Earth would die in about 18 months it was predicted and towards they end they stated how Europe had been pushed back to the west, Asia was completely gone, the plague had gone from Africa, through Antarctica to South America and by the end of it they used a pincer maneuver on North America from 3 different sides so they certainly do learn.
'Nids also feed on biomass. And use it. And would be immune to Faro Plague after being subjected to it only briefly. Faro Plague is just a fancy silver bullet. 'Nids don't care. Nids are immune to psychic effects of a Marker. Nids are immune to the Flood again after only being subjected to it once (also as soon as 'Nids find the connection to a Flood Gravemind...'Nids would overtake the Gravemind immediately.) It's just not...it's just not fair to bring the Tyranids into this debate. They aren't something anyone can deal with. Zergs would have been more of a fair comparison.
@@Sethir I think you are exaggerating how effective the Tyranid's adaptation is. I mean, it's certainly a big thing, but they can't just make themselves completely immune to a threat like that. If it was that simple they would have evolved to be immune to bolter shells, chainswords and lasbolts a long time ago. I highly doubt they could make themselves immune to the Flood, it doesn't necessarily have to infect them like a disease, it just has to kill them and then puppeteer the bodies. They also can't make themselves immune to the Faro plague, it 's not an actual plague, it's just robots that kill things and then break them down. Unless the Tyranids can make themselves immune to death, which they cannot, the Faro plague would still work against them. The Faro Plague would still lose, mind you, the Tyranids still have a massive advantage in numerical strength since they own at least one other galaxy whereas the Faro plague just has the one planet, but still. I'm also not so sure that the Tyranids would overtake the Gravemind, and you have no evidence or reason to believe that. The Gravemind is built of the collected intelligence of the precursors, who essentially created entire galaxies and existed for who knows how many eons, hardly a trivial power. I'm not saying that the Gravemind would defeat the Tyranid hive mind in some kind of direct clash of wills, I'm just saying that it's hardly a pushover, and we have no evidence to suggest that either the Gravemind or the Tyranid hive mind would win. Actually also, since when do the Tyranids have mind-control/infection that would allow them to "overtake" the gravemind? Outside of some minor genestealer shenanigans, the Tyranids have never really been able to subvert peoples minds in that manner, unless there's some new or obscure piece of lore I haven't seen yet. Mind you, I do think the Tyranids would probably win here, but only because they have a massive headstart since they are already apparently spread across multiple galaxies. If all the swarms were given the same amount of power/spread to begin with, then I don't think the Tyranids would have such an easy time of it.
@@Seraphim7996 Basing it on 40K lore, readily available on various Wikis. Faro Plague only consumes organic matter - please note that this does not include all Carbon, just carbon-based compounds. This is why it eats leaves and such, but you see the remnants of trees still there, and you find fossilized things. Tyranids can just grow diamond-hard exoskeletons. It's what their Hive Ships use as hulls. Diamond hard means diamond. It's just carbon. That's it. It's no longer organic compounds but rather just carbon organized into a matrix that makes it diamond. As such. If I, a regular human, can think of this; conceptually, the tyranids have thought about it before the birth of our solar system and have already applied ready countermeasures innately to the genetic code of their forerunners. It's not a creature or monster or like a plague - the Tyranids were just a sort of lore solution to the overpowered nature of the 40K universe where everything is overpowered, and the solution was something you couldn't overpower in any way - sort of like a countdown to doomsday. Not something that can be stopped. The Faro plague was "beaten" by hiding in caves. It's like...not a problem even remotely for a horror the likes of the Tyranid concept. The Flood lore does indeed put the flood as a Top Tier literary obstacle, but if there's any ideas on how to fight it or stop it already birthed into our minds, and our lore - then it's no where near the horror that is the Tyranids (from their initial discovery Tyran...not their actual name...they are nameless really). That's why I thought the Zerg would have been a much better opponent to the Flood lore wise. The Tyranid is stupid lovecraftian BS. It's not something to bring to discussion.
I think this question changes if you assume they're in combat with one another. I think FARO has a leg up because the others rely on fighting a biological enemy, the Necromorphs and Flood aren't going to pose a huge risk to it, but a Tyranid Hive fleet would probably crush it. I agree that Necromorphs are not super dangerous to the others, and I think that if a mature infection discovered the FARO plague, the match would probably go to the FARO, since they're going to be way harder to kill with the weapons the Necromorphs have access to and won't be affected by psychological warfare. The thing about Tyranids and Flood is that, in their own fiction, both are described as unbelievably adaptable. I think Flood spores would infect Tyranid forms, the Tyranids would adapt to prevent it and fight Flood forms, the Flood would adapt to change their approach, and it would just become a cycle. I think if you dropped all 4 of these into the same galaxy, you'd end up with the Flood and Tyranids deadlocked, the Necromorphs getting stomped out of existence, and just one planet controlled by the FARO machines that no one else bothered with because it's barren as far as they're concerned.
I personally dont think the FARO would stop at just one planet. I think that when they have "eaten" a planet they would plan and design something to travel to the next. We know from the game that The FARO is very intelligent (with them actually farming the areas and even creating creatures specifically to map an area and send the data to all other units nearby (The tallnecks) and with all the processing power they would develop something to go to the next planet. Just my thoughts.
@@theh.i.v.e9036 I've played a pretty limited amount of the game, so I'm happy to defer to you on this one. I didn't know how capable the FARO were of developing new types. Maybe if presented with a galaxy of biomass, they'd attempt to keep expanding, and I think they'd have a lot of success against the Flood (as did Forerunner Sentinels). I think the Tyranids would pose a greater threat to them, it would probably come down to a war of attrition based on who could re-assimilate the biomass of dead Tyranids faster. Tyranid Leviathans will effectively cannibalize the ground-based invasion force and reproduce it later, but if the FARO are consuming it first, they can increase their numbers while depriving the Tyranids of raw materials.
@@masterofchairs in that case the tyranids would probably win. The only scenario where any other infection would win is if they all started with one "infection form" on a single planet each. Because the tyranids hive fleets in WH40K are literaly scouting forces. The main fleet havent arived yet. And hive fleet leviathan are so powerfull that quote "If every single living human were drafted into the Imperial Guard there would not be enough".end quote. Think about it. (To your other question the FARO started with only the corrupters, deathbringers and the "iron devils")
@@theh.i.v.e9036 As fond as I am of 40k, the scale of all of it is wild, probably have to make changes for any semblance of fairness. Think a multi-system "empire" of FARO could coordinate to resist a Hive Fleet?
@@masterofchairs probably. I think the FARO would win that scenario because now that i think about it the Tyranids have nothing to gain from "killing" a FARO while the FARO would gain combat data. The Tyranids work by consuming their enemies but when your enemy is made of metal there is nothing to gain. The Hive Mind of the Tyranids would probably design new combat forms but not nearly as fast as the FARO. ( this is essentialy a battle of adaptability and the Tyranids is for once at a dissavantage (not sure that is spelled correctly).
@@nicholaswade211 Flood:"Hahahaha you fool, you think you can destroy everything but that's my work, your fate is become food and nothing more, what have you done that can make you a threat like me. I was created by gods and i can infect AIs, you really think you can be a good enemy !!!"
@@oryxthechadking555 Faro Plague: We are a swarm with one goal and that is to wipe out every living creature, good luck eating our scrap metal. We can’t even be hacked by the worlds greatest. We adapt and overcome, and if you think you can even get close to us your wrong. Thousands of robots in one motion will wipe out your puny swarms in one sweep with millions of missiles. What wiped out earth was a small fraction of what we could become. Even if you did manage to hack us you think we would let it happen again? We have advanced Melee capabilities too that would let us stomp on your walking corpses.
@@nicholaswade211 The Flood have the Logic plague, they turned one AI made to destroy them onto their side. The faro plague could win, but in the moment that one Gravemind or Primordial exist, the faro plague will be just one army of robots under control of the Flood.
One thing you forgot to mention about the flood is the Logic Plague. It basically infects a A.I. with a type of virus and turns it against their creators. That is what Medicant Bias was infected with which lead to the downfall of the Forerunners and in turn to the Covenant not developing and using A.I.. This also what many people theorized what Cortana is infected with in Halo 5-Infinite which will explain her personality.
actually, HADES in Zero Dawn is proven in game to be immune to even its own decisions, regardless of infection HADES regularly breaks and rewrites its own programming to continue following its goal
@asian lee Precursor star roads under the control of the Flood (and a corrupted Forerunner AI), shredded one of the Arks, which themselves are larger than Earth
I'm kind of curious if a marker could infect another hive mind and if markers signals could control the other factions bio mas turning it into more necromorphs would that work on the flood or tyranid
If the Flood retain the knowledge and skills of those they infest, do they also retain the connection to the Force of the Force sensitive intelligences it absorbs?
I think the tyrannids would just straight up adopt the flood and weaponize them for themselves. It would be more like figuring out how the flood work and then using it to help them. The tyrannids could also simply adapt to prevent the flood from taking over and infecting. If they developed a non centralized nervous system, in theory they wouldn’t longer be infected.
@@connormcgehee9349 the flood also have the ability to infect non organic materials, such as in Halo Wars 2: Awakening DLC, they can also infect vehicles.
@@connormcgehee9349 also there's no adapting to become immune to the flood, the flood infection is somewhat supernatural, composed infection forms when put into mechanical non-biological bodies would randomly decompose incredibly quickly as if the flood infected the very spirit of their hosts
I agree with you on that the flood will work with enemy's to further its own goals the thing about the flood is just how intelligent they are I assume they would work with the tyrinids until they can get a proper keymind then will start taking over
As much as I love Horizon, Faro Plague is the weakest option of all. I don’t understand at all how people could allow it to spread, because robots do not have air forces, only ground units, and people had airplanes (The Grave-Hoard has an audio recording of this). Why didn’t they just bombard the robots? I didn’t see any air defense equipment on them. This is the question.
Well, it’s a swarm, you can kill as many as you want but there would always be more and planes require airports to resupply, which is inconveniently on the ground.
@@TheDaltonius As I remember, only the Titans could produce other machines. For example, Corruptor couldn't make another Corruptor. If you destroy the Titans, then the entire robot production system will fail, and for aviation, a huge Horus without air defense is an ideal target. Hopefully in the second part, the devs will introduce the flying Chariot drones and fix this issue.
@@shadow_spark8788 I haven’t played in quite a while but if I recall only 3 Horus classes were ever destroyed, so definitely some type we never seen before is used to protect them or maybe it’s just a bunch of Death Bringers shooting until they hit lmao.
They nuked the entire planet, but the robots reproduce and corrupt other machines faster than they could destroy. It was also said that most armed forces on earth were automated, so when the faro glitch happened humanity was at great disadvantage.
@@lucashonorato_ It makes sense, but I still can't figure out why humans were able to build Zero Dawn complexes but couldn't make enough manned aircraft. I think this can be discussed for a very long time, but we can get the exact answer only in the game, and I hope that we will get it in the sequel.
While I appreciate the attention you gave the faro swarm, I think you should have taken a swarm of more adequate scale, like the Zerg from SC instead. The Faro swarm is limited by the restraints of it's time and technological status, no space travel technology, no other known planets with life,... They are imo one of the most terrifying on a planet scale but they never had a chance to go to space and they never seemed to evolve beyond their original models.
Enjoy and drop a like for the return of factions compared!
I'm amazed by not just how quickly you get this content out but how well made and knowledgeable it is. Keep it up!
Hey Eck! I just wanted to say that I’ve been with this channel for over a year and have enjoyed your videos. Your vids have an unmatched level of quality and are always enjoyable. Stay frosty ❤️👏👌
If we take the current flood and tyranids as they exist then i would say tyranids win with sheer numbers, if we take the flood from the forerunner flood war era then I'd say the flood wins
you r forgetting that the tyranids have a psychic blanking affect around that fleets that stop whole systems from using some psychic powers. If that affects the floods communication it will be the death of the flood.
The borg would have been cool
Can we be honest and say the real outcome would likely be the tyranids and flood combining into an unstoppable force of hunger and death.
Depends. But it is possible.
And papa Nurgle would gladly own it all...
Personally this is something I'd rather talk about rather th3n argue who would win between the the two, because it would never end
*Floodnids?*
*TyranFlood?*
*Xenos. Aliens. Mutants.*
"They are not glitches, they are features" -Bethesda Robotics
Is there a joke that I don’t get ?
Oh lmao I get it xd
I think
Antony Khoury you have a lot to learn
@@antonk1524 yeah you dont get it
The flood was so powerful, Bungie had to create a game to stop it
Haha
Games workshop couden't stop the Tyranids even with several games.
Bungie>Games workshop
@@E.K939 True, but the Flood haven't technically been stopped.
@@gumfireparalax1371 YEAH but they stopped being a sufficient enemy threat whilst the Tyranids were a constant force in the galaxy and remained as such after they're "defeat".
one thing you missed about the flood was how any gravemind could corrupt a "smart" ai with the logic plague.
The fucking what
@@tophatstudios8183 Logic plague, it's a way the flood has on corrupting AI to their favor, so then the AI sabotages systems for powerful civilizations and leaves them vulnerable to the flood.
@@felipem7626 *holy fuk*
@@tophatstudios8183 indeed. The flood is extremely op. It's like a lovecraftian level threat.
Yeah even contender class Ai like Mendicant Bias
You forgot to mention the Tyranids that are attacking the Milky Way Galaxy are supposedly a scout force.
Shit ur right
This, this is the horror of warhammer.
and also the fact that the three main factions or variations of tyranids (kraken, leviathan and Behemoth) all came from different directions, meaning that the milky way might already be surrounded from all sides by tyranids, the fact that they can simply just slurp any dna and create a new creature using that dna is crazily scary, they can devour space marines and create the tyrant guards, heavily armored melee based infantry (not special infantry, they are as important as a single cadian shocktrooper)
I think that's just based on where they are currently. The Flood would likely be an equal or greater threat if given the same functionally endless resources.
@@Squigglyline52 the thing is, the tyranids do not rely on technologies of other species to infect and take over, but rather create their own to suit their needs
One thing you missed is the fact that the flood can produce its own combatants, when they have a gravemind they can produce pure flood forms Wich are stronger and deadlier than a assimilated host (like the juggernaut for example)
another thing, the faro plague is scarier to me because it's actually possible
Tyranids producing literally ALL their units looking at this like:,
Tyrannids do the same thing while skipping the non pure form stage
Like the flood literally can’t use jackals and grants for biomass, the tyrannids would digest them for genetic info no problem
@@xypherath they can but they tipically ignore them because their bodies are small in comparison with the other species, they generally use them for biomass
The Faro plague would probably be the best weapon to combat the other plagues if it was used as a weapon by a sentient species of sufficiently intelligent AI
Remember tyrannids fucked up whole galaxies, evolve, have swarms bigger than solar systems, can start cults, defeated demons, AIs, and demigods whiping out planets and every biomatter in it. Its gonna be hard stopping those mad lads
@@ethandew1768 Not denying you or anything but the Faro plague literally adapts to anything, the Tyranids would not be able to reproduce as the Faro plague is obviously made of metal. If a chariot gets killed by a Tyranid the other chariots would take note of that loss, send the data back to Hades, and evolve to combat that. The chariots all have advanced ranged and melee combat data. I would say that if the Faro plague had space flight like all the other races they would be a threat on the same level as the Tyranids. Each planet they would harvest more resources and multiply and evolve. In other words I say that the Tyranids and the Faro plague or on pretty equal terms.
@@nicholaswade211 your not wrong but on equal terms is an understatement because unless the faro plague gets eliminated almost instantly they would adapt perfectly to anything that's a treat to them basically if a tyranid ship gets too close to the faro plague and gets assimilated it's pretty much over for the whole 40k universe not even the warp can stop the faro plague from plaguing the whole universe and the thing is the faro plague doesn't have emotions thus the less biomass in the universe the less influential the warp gets until the final biomass is assimilated a faro plague invasion is by far the scariest cause it's the most likely to succeed in it's role.
@@lokiforpresident8361 I totally agree with you. With the capabilities the Faro plagues has they would definitely be a universal threat. Especially how any mechanical weapon thrown at them will be taken over (if it’s an AI that is) the Faro plague corrupter line also have good melee capability and speed. I feel the only threat to them would be too little biomass. But then again it only takes a single tree to fully power one robot.
@@nicholaswade211 until the universe runs out of biomass there will be constant invasions from the ferros the bad part is the horus might be able to upgrade itself the horus itself is bad enough but what about an upgraded horus?
Another thing for the flood is, towards the end of the Forerunner-Flood war, slipstream space was beginning to breakdown, as the flood began to mess with the fabric of reality.
If the flood were in 40k at their highest in power they would epicly troll the tyranids by connecting the 2 dimension on top of the tyranids lol
@@connormcgehee9349 the most scary thing about the flood is that they haven't gone to their final stage called trans-galactic
@@connormcgehee9349 I think the most dangerous thing would be for the Flood and the Orks to exist in the same universe. The Flood would get access to easily infected, endlessly reproducing biomass.
Not to mention giving a super intelligence the ability to use the Ork’s reality warping psychic powers.
Sure, the Orks don’t add much intelligence to the Gravemind, but having unlimited reality bending soldiers would be a hell of an advantage.
@@Noplayster13 that's a great point. Plus while the orks don't add much wisdom to the gravemind the gravemind still gets like exponential Grey matter to think about things
They also stoped forerunner weapons/coms from working not just the shadow in the warp but also weapons stop working and with Star road wips that smack planets and solar systems around like ping pong balls. Final X factor is flood knows how to build and manipulate technology. This means if the flood needed to it could likely build and teleport in halo rings into the Tyrinds galaxy’s or those other forerunner/precourcer super weapons. Even on the Lowest tech access it can cobble UNSC or even Coveent slip space tech.
'we know very little about early tyranid invasions'
-lictors
-genestealers
-the genestealer cult.
accordingly, there has been found prehistoric tyranid fossils on some planets, predating the first tyranid invasion of planet tyran for millions of years at least.
I think what he ment is, that we have no Information about how Tyranids started, like with the very first "infection" if you will.
@@KossolaxtheForesworn like for example the Kraken of Fenris are probably the descendants of feral tyranids
I believe he meant the actual origins of the tyranids, which we know literally nothing of- beyond that they are from outside the milky way and were drawn here by Rowboats psychic beacon adventures
It is heavily implied that the tyranids were made by the old ones to consume all life and store its DNA, basically 40k’s halo devices.
Meanwhile
Nurgle, in the warp: Allow me to introduce myself
The Tyranids (namely, Hive Fleet Gorgon) have successfully bio-engineered a flesh-rotting disease that has infected some Death Guard... Nurgle ain’t shit
@@napdragon7324 *throw more blight grenade at the giant space locust
@@napdragon7324 i can almost guarantee you that Nurgle not only studied that disease with glee but made a better one based off of the same principles. Good effort, but no one beats the god of plague when it comes to PLAGUE. Tyranids do have Nurgle's armies beat, though. He gon have to retreat to the warp, can't make the perfect disease for an infinitely genetically diverse species
@@napdragon7324 logic wise tyranid is too op. I think (im not sure not that hardcore fan) 40K universe still not meet with the main body of the fleet yet?
@@Animalisticbehavio Yes and No. with GW’s policy of everything is canon, either Leviathan is the main/rest of the tyranids, the forces in the Milky Way are a tiny, tiny portion of the full Tyranid might, or anywhere in between.
You forgot that the flood gravemind remember everything from past grameminds so that could be another advantage on there part
The Flood: You cannot give up yet... Stay determined.
The Gravemind from Bungie Trilogy has mind of Primordial, the last Precursor and first Gravemind
@@yolospawn410 it has a linked information network. Like the opposite of the forerunner domain. So its not just the primordial. Its all things they have ever learned or consumed, past and present
And also the millions of year worth knowledge of both ancient humans and forerunners and also precursors knowledge can be passed down to
The new graveminds.
@@adityasharma0376 probably many times more than just millions of years
I think something that could easily be missed about the Necromorphs here, is that the marker signal is actually more effective against more intelligent species. Most 'common' people simply developed dementia, but the smarter the person was, the more they were driven to build markers, and it was designed to make the affected believe that the marker was extraordinarily beneficial to them in some way. So if you were to pit them against the Flood, for example, who can grow to massive levels of biological intelligence, and combine a hive mind affected by a marker signal, you suddenly have an entire colony as it were of super marker builders. Plus imagine a reanimated necromorph grave mind.
I hace seen in another vídeo that very Smart people can defend againts the Marker signal preventing them from becoming necromorphs
Thats just a brethren moon though.
@table2392 i think you forget that a single gravemind is as intelligent then's of thousands of people and a keymind is a planet sized gravemind a single keymind is as intelligent if not more so than a contender class forerunner ai which could control millions of ships and make precise movements in the heat of battle without breaking a sweat, no matter how strong a bethern moon is it won't be able to overpower even a single keymind not to mention the fact keyminds are able to make use of precursor neural physics and, which includes starroads which could tear apart planets, a brethren moon against a keymind would get absolutely decimated.
@@skylerwilde-mitchell9791 Keyminds can infect/corrupt space-time itself, not to mention they can corrupt machines even though they're purely biological, whos to say they cant corrupt a marker?
@@depressedphantom2552a brethren moon can travel at light speed
Neither and both.
The tyranids and flood would enter a state of infinite assimilation of eachother becoming a galaxy sized mass of flesh and technollogy in a constant flux btween biomass types governed by a dual personal hivemind commanding floodanids to invade the multiverse.
Or they could merge, that would be insane, give a Gravemind the Tyranids psychic abilities and the Tyranids the Graveminds intelligence and the Universe is utterly screwed
Tyranids can evolve to a threat very quickly and efficiently. I do not know Halo lore well so if I’m wrong correct me but it seems the flood is limited to the life form it infects and can only mildly change it. The Nids would likely win at some point.
@@Alexander59059 for the longest time I thought nids were by far the strongest parasites in any fiction. Until I started dwelving more into the Flood.
Even though I consider myself a Halo fan, I had no idea just how powerful the Flood were. They can in fact infect anything, but choose mostly sapient species with a certain biomass for combat reasons mostly, otherwise its turned into biomass that terraforms environments.
They work in three stages:
1 - Uncoordinated
2 - Coordinated
3 - Galactic
Hands down nids win vs uncoordinated flood, since its at a stage where the flood are "primal", they only work by local hivemind or thru a proto-gravemind.
At a coordinated level, a gravemind is born and the Flood works at a quantum coordination level. Its a war of attrition at this point without any clear winners. Take note that for every victim assimilated into the Flood, their memories/skills/emotions are absorbed into it so to a degree, the gravemind not only remembers everything from previous graveminds but will add on to this universal knowledge. The more corpses a gravemind is made up of, the more exponential its intelligence is.
After a few million corpses given to the gravemind, it arrives at the galactic stage. Here its intellect becomes so far beyond comprehension that its able to coordinate on a galactic scale, as well as actually develop psychic abilities. A gravemind at this stage is able to fuck with time and space itself; opening wormholes, change the perception of time to its adversaries, create singularities and generally so massive that just its proximity to a world dooms it.
Alternatively, if it weren't bad enough, gravemind have the logic plague: a ideo-semantical means to "infect" non-organic life thru philosophy, well-chosen words spoken at a slow-burn pace. Essentially using swaying words to make artificial intelligence to sway into its favor/side.
Graveminds are scary as fuck. While the Nids have also their enormous strength, I cannot even picture the biggest nid swarm facing a full-on galactic gravemind and winning.
Edit: Flood can also intergrate without problem technology into their ranks. Not only having its fighters pick up guns and using them, but have entire fleet of ships converted with biomass and said mas utilizing the ships, even potentially create things thru their fallen adversaries' technologies.
@@Peusterokos1 I never knew the Flood could be so powerful. At that point the Grave-mind would probably be able to use its psychic power to overload the Tyranid hive mind, if not the flood would still be better in almost every way, The only advantage they would have is that the Nids have no technology to steal or be corrupted.
@@Alexander59059 The nid's greatest advantage against the Flood would be sheer numbers, actual psychic fighters (Zoanthropes), production of integrated bioweaponry and their high-evolutive abilities; all they'd have to do to avoid flood infection is reformating/remove their nervous system. However, The Flood would simply avoid the latter's answer by attacking the Nid's targets.
It would probably assimilate humanity/eldars into the gravemind, farm orkz for fighters and persuade the necrons to join their ranks with the logic plague in a WH40K setting.
The key aspect for the Flood's victory would be to achieve the galactic stage before the bulk of the Nid's fleets arrives in the galaxy. On a note, the Flood would actually do poorly against Chaos since the only psychic entity the Flood have is the gravemind itself.
The Faro swarm is interesting since it could stop an early to moderate flood invasion. And even a near end game necromorph invasion. Its unique ability to fuel itself with biomatter turns the other's strengths against them. Its the only faction that could starve the others out of resources. Alone out of all the factions it's the only one that would cause the tyraind fleet to ignore the planet since it is depleted of biomatter.
Zachary Hawley The first thing I thought of was that, in a vs debate, the Faro Plague would have a massive advantage because the other factions would be unable to consume it.
@@darthfenrir7773 That's a massive advantage. Without a doubt. If faro ever got off world the rest of the factions would be screwed.
Especially interesting is that, though the Plague feeds on biomass, it, by virtue of being a mechanical faction, *also* benefits from raiding the tech of other robotic factions; if the Plague were to win a fight against, say, Necrons, it could then start pulling apart the remains to build more robots. Not only can it mince organic parasite factions, it doesn't fall into the Tyranid trap of being hard-countered by robots.
The Flood could infect the Faro Plague with the Logic Plague, turning them into Flood allies
When the Tyranid absorb planets after subjugating them they don't just grab biomass but also all mineral deposits as well (which is one of the reasons their carapaces are harder than most combat armors in wh40k). Given their extremely fast adaptability and evolution rate, and the fact that they already use non-biomass I would highly doubt that the Faro Swarm's lack of biomass would be an issue for them.
Man I love watching channels grow, I've been here since the start and just want to congratulate you on your child!!
Yeah man, I've been here since he started starship vs videos. Although I haven't really commented much xD
Well lets hope the views improve
One thing about the Farro plague that I think you overlooked is that they hack other AI so in the world they occupied, battles and wars were fought with AI. It left everyone with little to no means of defense.
Sounds like a weaker version of the logic plague
@@Raipongai From what I hear, the logic plague is designed to fight against AI by corrupting data or making it things in ways that assist the flood. The thing about HZD's Farro Plague is that HADES isn't an AI. It's a program that thinks off of raw algorithms. I don't think the Logic Plague would have much effect, if any effect at all. I don't recall the Logic Plague completely rewriting systems, meaning the Farro Plague and HADES would probably just shrug it off and continue on.
I'm not sure how this would play out, honestly. But if HADES was initially programmed for Earth defense or planet reclamation and not life elimination, it likely would've adapted through it's learning algorithms to get off-planet and face the threat directly. With how fast the reproduction is, and with how it consumes bio-mass for fuel, the Farro Plague would likely have an easy time wiping planets clean of Flood or Tyanid infections. True, Tyranids and the Flood is terrifying, but I think the Farro Plague is more so, since it wouldn't take much more than a small code re-write or command input to completely wipe a nearby planet of bio-mass.
@@deathound Late stage flood can infect basically anything with the logic plague
@@deathound Interesting how you describe AI's, considering they are also raw algorithms, ordered to allow decision making and self-improvement.
While it is called the "Logic Plague", it is actually just a way of communication, the Gravemind using rhetoric on an AI/ a Being to distort it's sense of Duty and expose contradictions so that it could use them to further it's own influence. This ability is "created" with the creation of a Gravemind
Mendicant Bias was convinced that the Gravemind was the true Owner of the Mantle of Responsibility because it wanted to encapsule all Life and "transcend" it beyond death.
In other cases it would bombard research AI's with Precursor knowledge and views on the Mantle while also hacking into their systems.
The UrDidact was driven mad by the contradictions between the knowledge of the Gravemind and his pride in the Forerunners and made him act as a disturbance and threat to the Forerunners War efforts
Later on, the Act of inducing the Logic Plague became akin to a program, because it could be transmitted without the Graveminds direct action, but it is still just as potent.
As long as a System has a goal / parameters to follow and a decisionmaking algorithm, it is susceptible to the Logic Plague. The lower a systems complexity is, the easier it is to infect, as the system just has to be convinced that Flood-favoring actions are good ways to reach it's goal.
Whether it was the glitched out Swarm, that probably deemed All of Humanity to be an "Enemy" or Hades (who became a fullfledged AI) with an reactivated Plague who .... did the same, convincing them that the Flood would destabilize and reset the bioaphere would be easy.
Logic plague is more just the idea that the flood, with the immense intellect of a gravemind and the fullness of time can either trick or convince and AI that helping/leaving the flood alone is in the interests of their creators/directives. It can hardly do much against a program that says: if(thing not equals me) then(kill)
I absolutely adore the end card. That Corgi is worth the extra 10 seconds of every video every time.
*PAT. PAT PAT PAT*
*HEAD RUBS*
Makes me smile every time.
i always wonder why he looks like he's coming out of the gaybar from police academy, it looks like he's wearing the same masochist-leathercap featured there
Tyranids scare spacemarines......
Anything that can scare a spacemarine is unspeakable....
Flood do the same thing
@@TWO_THOUSAND_SEAVY_HEAVY No, they really don't. Infection forms can't actually get through space marine armor, and even if they could the mental strength of a space marine is such that they resist all but willful corruption (chaos). Tyranids, though, can peel a space marine's armor apart like it's aluminum foil (which is saying something, given that space marine armor is 6 inch thick steel alloy). Seriously, the flood wouldn't even stand a chance against the imperium given the amount of exterminatus that the imperium wields, let alone the 'nids.
@Psyke ᛟ you right
@Psyke ᛟ ok. Replace "scare" with the words " heavily concern" to be honest. Its actually more accurate.......
Hey Space Marines know no fear!
What ever they say even tyranids cant survivr Catachan Jungle.
When you said one human, you meant the Master Chief, *The Master Chief.*
*master* *chef*
Still just a human though 🤷🏿♂️ not a god
@@fuckboiactual1976
Do you even know how Master Chief destroyed the Flood?
The dude literally had to use a Halo Ring, an ancient superweapon designed by the Forerunners, which is capable of destroying all life in the galaxy, to destroy the bulk of the Flood threat. Those same rings were used as a last resort by the Forerunners near the end of their long conflict between the Flood. The Forerunners were so desperate that they destroyed all life in the galaxy (not before preserving all or most life on the Ark, which is outside of the Milky Way) just so they could stop the Flood.
There is no way the Chief could've just walked up and killed them all by himself, he would get infected.
Fuckboi Actual not a fuckboi like you lol he was augmented beyond your limited understanding
Heretic!
It's either an eternal war between the floods or nids...or they would somehow combine...which makes it even more terrifying
necromorphs are beyond terrifying. honestly the bots from zero dawn might be a hard counter to them as they are technically bio matter the machines may be able to consume and they cant be added to the necromorph collective since they arent organic.....
Yeah while the necromorphs are actually horrifying and effective, they are still bio matter and the best defense is the marker fucking up the machines in range of it.
@@deadman9335 even if the marker could mess w the machines which i doubt given how broken the ferro machines were ai wise it wouldnt matter if they kept coming and wrecking then consuming necromorphs then repairing and multiplying
@@Nomadic_Gaming that is what I was saying. The only thing that they could do is try and break them with a marker pulse. But I don't know if it would work
This is why I pose a counter to the Feros plague. The Infestation from Warframe. A fungus-like growth originally designed to serve as an interface between man and machine, the Infestation grew out of control. The Infestation is able to infest both man and machine due to it's interface abilities, and as we see with the Helminth and and the creatures of Deimos, the disease is fully capable of intelligence.
@@dragonheart1236 yeah I went to Deimos recently. It is intelligent but I don't think I have seen the full extent of it yet
You know what would be interesting? Nurgle vs Flood
Go on...
Ok, now THAT'S a match up!
Wtf a god vs some trash bags with legs? You kiddin?
@@spethmanjones2997 A god of sickness. He would likely love the flood due to them being what they are
Flood would win purely because nurgle would let them win as he would like them so much
One possible criterion for tie-break: their rivals/hosts.
Imagine the Imperium facing a Flood outbreak. The Inquisition burns planets to a crisp for threats much less apparent than grotesque parasites, and the Astartes are basically an army of Master Chiefs.
On the flip side, though, imagine a flood spore getting into a Psyker and/or attracting Nurgle's attention? Fucking scary.
Alas, I can't see things ending well for Halo soldiers facing a Tyranid hive fleet. Buuuut, I will admit to knowing far less about the Haloverse than about 40k.
oh i'm on the halo side of lore here but i'll tell you Tyranids would absolutely wipe the floor with most things from the halo universe, they just so OP.
I mean psykers are unstable as is so would probably just turn the flood insane what with all the crazy warp stuff happening and leave it as a blubbering fool. Then again do the flood even possess a warp presence? Do they have souls? The necrons are soulless and immune to the corruption of Chaos while Tau for example have no warp presence and have only been corrupted twice I think and only due to extremely long exposure to the warp.
You gotta remember that while the tyranids, as far as I'm aware, need to physically consume biomass to add it to their ranks, the flood do not. Basically what I'm saying is the imperium can fight the tyranids because the tyranids aren't an infection per say.
Flood spores are capable of infecting and converting promethean warrior servants in mere hours, or even days and I'm sorry but s ok ace marines pale in comparison to warrior servants. A spartan is about a quarter or even a third of a space marine, but as we all know from that quote in halo 1 "I recommend upgrading to at least a class 12 combat skin, your current model is only class 2"
Spark basically says that Mjiolnir armor is 10 grades below recommended flood containment armor. Like holy jesus, and imagine a space marine infected by the flood....just madness.
All in all the flood by being an actual infection that you can contact through the air or through contact with flood biomass makes it much more effective than almost**** anything the Tyranids can produce
@@colesrandomtoybox2676 yes yes but we're talking tyranids and not flood right? Well in that case let's introduce you to nurgle, humans, and tau.
The humans in halo actually cured the flood, with the mild problem that at that point they were retreating so hard that they were in forerunner territory... Yeah nice a galactic empire working together barely made a cure. But they made a cure.
Now the tyranids might actually be immune cause they can start to fight off the life eater virus. Sure they can't beat it yet but they got so close that the imperium can't virus bomb anymore. A virus made during the dark age of technology. In other words it's a galaxy of humans who could make tech that could destroy planets and solar systems in minutes. Fun fact terminator suits were suits used for manual labor in the dark age of technology. Yes tech that can survive a melta cannon which is at least 4 million degrees celsius, cause otherwise fusion wouldn't happen. Is a thing made for manual labor. The life eater virus was designed for war.
Yeah the tyranids might actually be able to not just cure the flood but completely demolish it.
Don't forget they are doing this while nurgle is throwing stuff at them. Nurgle, the god of disease can't infect them (partly cause the tyranids are too adaptable but maybe cause the warp fueled diseases can't do anything.) Only time any toxin or virus worked is cause the tau used plot armor and a virus while the tyranids were attacking and less able too adapt.
@@satan7350 there is one alternative to the tyranids with the halos
I would say the Tyranids, for a reason that not many have mentioned:
Self-sufficiency.
Ignoring all other matters for a moment (like numbers, potential, adaptability etc.), between these four here the Nids are simply the most complete pachage out of all of them. The only thing they require is bio-mass, just bio-mass, in whatever form it might be.
For example, put a few Flood spores or a Marker or a few fero gatherers on a, say, forrested planet that only has trees and plant life or heck, lets through in a few simple animals, and all these plagues would do is very limited in scope.
Starting of, the fero swarm will just consume everything and just faf around because of it's programming. The Marker will start the very slow progress of evolving whatever sentient life there might exist (if any) and the Flood will also seek to infect sentients which, again, if there aren't any or if they are just simple animals, it will be stuck on the planet for a long, long time.
The Nids on the other hand will consume the whole planet in a matter of days, accelerated by the fact there is no resistance and hence no need to develop combat forms, and after cosnuming the planet they will create literal organic FTL spaceships and proceed to consume more planets.
The Nids just work on a whole other level.
The Flood and Nids are extremely similar, both have consumed countless species and planets and both have the knowledge to make ships as the Floods knowledge transfers from Gravemind to Gravemind. But the Floods influence across the universe is unknown and likely to have spread into multiple galaxies, as no matter how many times they've been destroyed or defeated they've always come back.
@@Beau_Gan
I think you fail to look past any fanboy-ism here for anything Halo. Look up the general basis of the Tyranids. They consume ALL biomass... Meaning all plant life, all sentient and non-sentient life, water, etc.
When the Nids are done with a planet, it leaves a barren rock behind. The only thing that would be left is the buildings (the debris that remained) and the crust of the planet. Every form of life, or anything needed for life would be turned into biomass.
Everyone always wants to say how the Flood is so much better than the Nids because of their intelligence absorbing abilities, and how it's better than the Nids.
Here's the thing, the Flood will go dormant on a planet if there is no intelligent life to be consumed. The Tyranids on the other hand, everything that is living or needed for living, it's all fucked.
And once consumption is done, they move on to the next planet. Need I mention that the Tyranid ships are A LITTERAL GIANT FUCKING TYRANID?
And the Nids are stupidly adaptable to any situation. The can make combat forms that are strictly designed to deal with the Flood.
Gg all alien races.
@@TheRaven-WingGaming You have a good point but you're wrong, once a Flood outbreak has gathered enough biomass (could be literally anything) their Gravemind will form into a Keymind a.k.a a planet sized Gravemind and they wouldn't go dormant as the Graveminds knowledge includes the ability to teleport as shown in Halo 2 (If one Gravemind knew how to do something all Graveminds at the same time and after know how to do it).
@@Beau_Gan
Yes, but the Tyranids are adaptive to OP'd levels. Yes, I won't lie/deny that they would get pretty fucked up after the first 20-50 encounters, but the Flood is limited on its adjustment.
The Tyranids, once they figured out what the weaknesses of the Flood were, they would make specialized bio-forms and bio-titans that are strictly designed to deal with the Flood. Not to mention certain Tyranids forms can LITERALLY shoot BIO-ACID, which is not very good to have on flesh, which is what the majority of the Flood is, morphed flesh, where as the Nids have plating.
I won't deny, I don't entirely know how a battle like that would go down, but I'd pay to see it.
@@TheRaven-WingGaming And the flood would overwhelm and destroy whatever form they created, remember the Forerunners had tried 1000 other plans and failed including but not limited to creating creatures designed to deal with the Flood. At one point they tried using the Lekgolo (the worms that make up Hunters) to fight the Flood because they aren't susceptible to infection due to a lack of nervous system, but the Flood just killed them and added them to their biomass.
Warframe's Infested , and heck even Starcraft's Zerg deserve a little love in this list. (I understand no time , just mentioning)
You mean the flood 2.0 with the infested, right?
Zerg are basically, the same thing as Tyranids, with just a little diferences.
@@diogoteixeira4950 They are like Tyranids, but with an actual plot backing them.
SGT Sackwack pretty much except they can infect guns, machines, armour and robots. Also are able to fuse flesh with metal.
@@SGT-SackWack Nahh technocite virus (the infested from Warframe) is so much more. It can infect even machines and fuse byological and non-biological with even robitic things. Prime example would be Jordas Golem. AI fused with ship and with biological crew turned into mush. What you get? Massive infested space ship with inteligence of AI durability of best space ships and regenerative abilities of organic beings. If you ask me thats scarier than flood.
The biggest strength of Unitology/Necromorphs isn't at all the actual organisms, it's the the phycological power of the Marker.
Any "invasion" wouldn't be a front on attack, it would be a slow corruption from within, slowly turning the peoples of any faction, against themselves, by coercing them into making more Markers, and distributing. A large pull, is that they also don't see it as an invasion, but a uplifting. This can lead to faction infighting to try and continue the spread.
Stopping Unitology, comes down to how far the corruption has gone.
Lets put that into say the star wars universe.
An invasion would likely start in the unknown regions where you have lots of aliens, some even have their own ships and colonies. Any species that has yet to discover space flight would likely be consumed as food or to create new moons. Markers would be sent out to corrupt the minds of any species still evolving on their planet or to fall into the hands of space faring species. In the time of the empire, one such marker ended up in the known galaxy and through the physiological effects, be seen as something more. Showing them with the dream of glorious convergence. With organized religion being banned in the empire, this new religion would start off underground becoming something of a mix of rebels and unitologists.
Like the rebellion, this religion would spread but as a more peaceful movement, fighting for the right to practice their new found beliefs in glorious unity of mind, body, and spirit. On an imperial controlled planet, this peaceful movement becomes more hostile after one of their markers is either found on the planet, or perhaps brought to the planet. The Empire, would try to destroy it, resulting in a mass riot resulting in thousands of deaths. The imperial troops would find the marker isn't easy to destroy, perhaps being made of some new material the Empire could use. So the forces on the ground start to move the marker to the space port to bring it up to a waiting star destroyer. One of many in the imperial blockade erected in response to the previous event.
Many of the troopers and imperials on the ground would become more violent, willing to kill anyone for any reason. Citizens begin to fight back not only getting them selves killed, but also killing some of the imperials.
Eventually, bodies start to vanish along with random citizens and storm troopers.
The marker is taken aboard but before they could leave, a mass exodus of ships flee the planet. Reports of an infection killing people spread. To ensure the blockade holds, and prevent this infection from spreading, the ships open fire on the escaping civilians. Some of which end up crashing into the hull of warships, if not brought into the warships via tractor beams. No one escapes, but now, reports of an attack begin to spread form ship to ship. Many ships go silent, some are even destroyed, but very people survive.
Assuming no message made it back to the rest of the empire, a new moon would be born with any survivors either left insane or with the mental blueprints to build more markers. They would be recovered by an investigating imperial fleet or by the growing rebel movement or even by the religious cultist.
I don't know if you know, but Tyranids have a similar psychological effect due to their distortions of the Warp. And their Genestealer Cults are actually very similar to Unitology.
@@mattstorm360 that actually sounds like a good idea for a movie. Make a Dead Space Star Wars crossover.
@@alect5953 Honesty, i been looking into mining tools in star wars lore to do such a thing.
The flood can also do this based on when they had a grave mind on the other side of the galaxy in halo 3
Honestly, The Flood. A single spore can reproduce on a scale that I can't even explain. A single world can fall within days, the technology would be assimilated and improved. They were even known to control Halos and turn A.I.s against there creators.
I disagree. While a problem, the 'normal' answer to tyranid invasion is 'Blow up the planet'. When you face a foe where it is easier to sacrifice an entire world than to actually face it... Kinda wins the arguement.
@@charleshammond7921 that’s exactly what the forerunners and ancient humans protocol in halo is for the flood
@@charleshammond7921 I partially agree in that it is better to go ahead and wipe a world than let the flood take it. However, given the horrible response times of the imperium, it would be nearly impossible to arrive in time with warp travel to yeet exterminates ordnance into it. By the time an imperium force arrives to any moderately populated planet, it’s too late. Hell half the imperium ships will probably arrive in the wrong location anyway XD. So really the imperium would have to get lucky and hope the flood arrives in systems with massive imperium fleets, or that they somehow arrive in time to burn the planets. If the flood have to use warp travel it might mitigate that some, but even then a gravemind would just travel to many worlds each time and I’m sure a couple will fall with each wave
@@charleshammond7921 This is also a normal protocol for a forerunner, with also the detonation of supernova and creation of black holes as defens, I think they are pretty similar in this
@@charleshammond7921 A single Forerunner ship can singlehandedly stomp the entire 40k universe and they couldn't even stop the flood.
Personally, I don't think the Faro swarm was really given a proper representation in this video. the initial concept of the swarm did not use true AI and had instead used an advanced, non-sapient combat algorithm to dictate the swarm's actions as well as learn from enemy contact (HADES is more akin to a HALO "dumb" AI and it only took control of the swarm's husk for a very short time almost a millennia after it ravaged Earth.) As such, it was stuck with only 3 designs and "wave attack" tactics. Had a true AI such as a GAIA or Cortana-equivalent been in control, the designs would have likely evolved/multiplied and more advanced tactics would have been used.
It should have been able to do that
You could almost say that combat would have evolved.
There's another thing that's getting misrepresented in this argument too which is the fact that the Flood aren't helpless against non-organic combatants either.
During the Forerunner Flood war, the Forerunners tried using powerful robotic units controlled by an AI EXPONENTIALLY more powerful than GAIA called Mendicant Bias (we're talking powerful enough to defeat GAIA, Halo 5 Cortana, Rasputin from D2, and Skynet all combined)
The Flood created a digital virus called the Logic Plague which turned the robot units against the Forerunners, even infecting Mendicant Bias.
The Farro and some tough SOBs but there's no way in hell they can overcome the Logic plague with comparatively ancient cyber security features
@@timeydoesstuff They do, if you kill enough of a certain enemy, they'll start adding parts to make it harder to kill them the same way. If you want to see it, kill a storm bird, the next one will be quite a bit more difficult. Also, play on hard, otherwise it's not as noticeable.
@@catholicpatriotusa1507 Even if the Logic Plague doesn't work on the Faro Plague, what's stopping the Gravemind from using Mendicant Bias or some other A.I. converted by the Logic Plague to Brute Force their way into the machine's programming like in Zero Dawn, only probably a lot faster?
Fortnite. Fortnite is the most powerful, deadly, and annoying virus ever.
Of course, the Fortnite hater couldn't lack in a UA-cam comments section.
Dude rlly
agreed fortshit wins
Agreed
Fortnite only got so much love because it followed a formula that a little shit in korea made.
just imagine if the flood and Tyranids combined, highly specialized combat and infection forms with a skill sealing that is unparalleled by anything else.....
Tbh I can see the Flood and Tyranids working together as they both want Bio mass and to spread. Fighting eachother would be completely pointless as they'd just gain biomass but then lose it the next day to the opponent.
Imagine space marine flood combat forms. That would be terrifying
The Devourer Plague is born. It would be a good idea to team up with the gravemind in order to try to destroy the pharaoh plague, or maybe just call the silent king somehow
@@VanteTheOne that’s the correct thought process. The Gravemind is smart enough to understand the importance of domination through allegiance.
@@thegreatdevourer1020and with the tyranids evolution and almost instantaneous learning capabilities? The universe would be doomed bro. Wonder how the Orkz would react to it.
People talk about the Tyranids, but the Flood, once grown far enough, can warp time and space itself like they did at the end of the forerunner war. The Tyranids are incredibly powerful but they can't warp space itself. I think, I could be wrong though, there's always some Warhammer lore that can prove you wrong lmao.
old comment i know but they can warp space. when the tyranids swarm a planet their presence in the Warp is so massive it distorts it and prevents proper warp travel, basically isolating the planet from the imperium.
@@averylei4236 that's true, but the flood should be able to do that AND teleport, aswell as apparently bend time, pr atleast it's perception. Although this is me rehashing what has already been said in comments so could be wrong I'm willing to bet it's true
They have very powerful Psykers which can pretty easily warp space. Psychic powers, manifesting both physically and mentally, are actually very central to how the Tyranid swarm functions. Tyranids are also capable of *preventing* others from warping space which is what the first reply was referring to, and is another central reason why they are so dangerous in a universe full of super-soldier space wizards.
@@DoctorGrim456 The scary thing is if all of those are done through the Flood's pure psychic influence, then that'd be awful for them encountering the Tyranid's due to the natural "Shadow in the Warp" which to go into more detail about what the first common said, what it effectively is, is the Tyranid's pure psychic influence is so substantial and overwhelming, it entirely dwarfs all other forms, preventing any kind of psychic abilities to function or psychic communication, which could in theory behave like a direct counter to many other hivemind's way of communication.
I'm not sure if other fictional hiveminds would be able to counter this as well as lacking the ability themselves.
hey bro fellow Halo lover um I don't know much Warhammer but I do know that the most probable outcome will be the flood being outnumbered and whipped out as they won't have enough time to produce any pure life forms or grave minds I'm pretty sure teranids "spelt wrong" have a literal hell presence and are just already to far above the flood in terms of development" please prove me wrong"
Eck for president
Btw congrats on the baby 👍
Isn't he Canadian?
*prime minister 😉
Ecks is Canadian...
*Eck for Supreme Chancelor*
X-Parasite from Metroid: "Am I a joke to you?"
X parasite are arguably stronger than all these except for tyranids
bruh samus end up literally eating X-parasite for breakfast to regenerate her health
@@jeanmouloude But only because she got a deus ex machina Metroid vaccine before the X-Parasite consumed her. Literally *anything* not either a Metroid or something with that cellular immunity or gets sealed away where the X can't get to them gets taken over and killed. Plus it's capable of adapting to situations. When it realizes that Samus becomes more vulnerable to ice as a result of the vaccine, it starts using the cold to try and freeze her. But when she gets the Varia Suit data to combat it, the chilled parasites start avoiding her.
@@jeanmouloude not to mention all the r34 stuff...
Flood: yeah
idk...I just dont like wh40k being involved in anykind of "whats better" because every faction over there is just meant to be massivly OP. its like playing a TF2. its "balanced" only because everyone is broken
You are saying that when the Flood is on the list. The one species which has been written to be so OP that it sounds like the fan fiction villain from the works of some ten year old.
I mean, here, it's actually kind of fair, with the exception to the Fero Plague, as all of them are galaxy-dooming eldritch hiveminds. Tyranids potentially are kind of just a beat-stick advantage to some degree with how the other two are capable of cellular infestation and not just eating everything else to death.
It’s because 40k fans are like a cult they won’t even entertain the idea of a different universe
@@schnoz2372 they're about as pigheaded and vicious as Touhou and Fate fans, now if you don't mind I'm off to play Perfect Cherry Blossom and listen to Last Stardust.
glormp glormp I used to constantly run into 40k fans on Starcraft videos that went over just to start shit about how much better they were
This video got me to play Horizon: Zero Dawn. Thanks Ekharts' Ladder.
Is it good? Interested in getting it...
@@Lewd-Tenant_Isan yeah, it's pretty good. One of the better open world stealth-action with crafting elements games out there.
@@Coolguy98765 aww cool! Can't wait to get it
Pl
This video got me to finally buy Halo
T-70 X-Wing VS E-Wing
Please Mr. Eck, we must know witch T-65 X-Wing replacement is superior!
“One single flood spore can destroy a species...”
Exactly like Warhamer orcs.
Not a warhammer 40k species
@@freakkyser yes Orks are a 40k species idiot!
One vigilant human can stop a flood outbreak... lol
A flood outbreak with the same amount of biomass as the tyranids(forgive me if I misspelt that) do in warhammer 40k do would have thousands if not millions of keyminds, making it the single most sophisticated faction in any SciFi game ever
The real issue is that YOU can't survive any of these 😂
15000 nukes? Is that all you have?
*Nids laughing because of their number*
*Flood laughing after using some anti-nuke technology they probably got long ago*
*Necromorphs laughing cause marker.jpg and brethrenmoon.gif*
right 3 sides but humans n sentience loses
Exterminatus
If that doesn't work use more Exterminatus.
@@zesshizetsumei9734 GLORY TO THE GOD-EMPORER!
I only really know stuff about the flood, but you missed some stuff.
The flood can make their own combatants called pure forms, made of only converted biomass. They are adaptable and some even have ranged attacks.
Another thing is graveminds (central flood intelligences) retain the memories of previous graveminds, meaning all knowledge gained by the flood is permanent, even millions of years after the flood gained it. Even if all previous graveminds are destroyed, if the flood regains a foothold the knowledge remains. Also there can be multiple graveminds at once, some even covering entire planets (these are called keyminds).
They can also use mechanical tech, being able to "infect" vehicles and ships. This allows them to leave planets to infect other solar systems and the like. They can also do weird psychic stuff like portals but we dont go into that. One more thing is sentient ai can also be converted to the floods side via something called the "logic plague" where a gravemind will essentially convince an ai to join them using all of its accrued knowledge
The tyrannids make pure biomass forms by default and are way more adaptable, but you are right of the shared knowledge of flood
@@xypherath actually flood have same level of adaptability of tyranids not inferior ones, nanotech doesn't work against them, supernova'ing entire solar systems don't, and they instantly adapted to very specific genetic mutation that was designed to make them turn against each other by ancient humanity by sacrificing 1/3rd of their whole population so no tyranids aren't more adaptable, flood and tyranids have equal adaptability with flood having advantage in instantly infecting hosts and taking their knowlegde and ability to use and even infect technology and AIs
tyranids have more numbers, but if it's flood at height of forerunner flood war then nothing short of war in heaven factions can even tickle them
@@infamouspotato2028 tyranids can instantly infect hosts too-- that's part of what a genestealer infestation is about. Read the Ciaphas Cain books-- the tyranids effortlessly infect sentients and worse yet-- they retain their personalities, just have their priorities rewritten by the hivemind-- for that extra element of horror.
@@Xebelan I’m a huge fan of both Universes. A quick note on genestealers, they infect organisms yes but major implications from this are not instant by any means. It takes time for genestealer cults to infiltrate planets to pave the way for a successful invasion. A small flood outbreak can quickly grow to a planetary wide problem in days if it isn’t contained, genestealer cults take years to infiltrate and the hive mind takes some time to arrive to harvest. Both swarms of enemies would be hell to fight honestly lol.
@@aaron5988 Then you know Genestealers can infect soldiers in the time it takes to dig them out of rubble in sources-- enough to turn them on their fellows. Enough so that any suspicious wound on a guardsman will get them shot. The infestation/cult takes years because the way the vanguard works as it tries to spread quietly and painlessly as long as possible-- with some takeovers being relatively bloodless because everyone is infected and so they can send feelers out to as many nearby worlds as possible before the hive ship arrives to devour. It's not because the infestation can't work faster-- it's because it doesn't benefit the Tyranids to.
I agree the Flood overall have more potential. The only problem is that each individual Tyranid is dozens of times stronger than any Flood prior to encountering ant Tyranids. Also the Tyranids could create a new type of warrior that is completely immune to the Flood (at least the virus/host part, rendering their greatest advantage useless) though they would still be able to be killed they would be immune to being taken over and used by the Flood.
Just make them explode the moment a Flood boi tries to parasite them : they won't get anything, and ripper swarms will just recycle the parts on the ground too, smooth evolution.
"I agree the Flood overall have more potential."
"the Tyranids could create a new type of warrior that is completely immune to the Flood"
Tyranids would do that within a few hours of first tyranid being infected. Flood vs Tyranid hive fleet is the same as pretty much any other fight vs 40k Universe - you lose by default.
Tyranids would simply assimilate flood dna into their own like they have done with any other race.
@@khamul64 but if the tyranids assilatat the food does that make them in to the flood and also logic plage
Flood infection forms attack the central nervous system killing the host and using the body, while spores that are inside the body while slower will effect the host. Also the flood can use biomass no matter what in pieces or otherwise. Now the logic plague can be used on nonsentient beings but also sentient driving them to madness.
*"I am a monument to all your sins"* Halo 2/3 Gravemind, May 97,227 BC - December 2552 AD
"NOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM" tyranids all the time:P
ivan ivanovitch ivanovsky that's just letting the enemy into your base, flood super cells would then take over the nid
@@jooot_6850 They cant. As fluff states Flood infection cannot properly infect and control beings without central neural cord or/and that are on chitin bases. A big fucking flaw when you are against a race of space bugs.
@@jhr891 wrong, the flood can INFECT anything be it living beings, machines and even space-time itself... literally anything. But they can only EAT biomass and have DIRECT CONTROL over things with a nervous system, Anything without a nervous system is then manipulated, they keep their life and consciousness but have a fake sense of free will, as their minds are already controlled by the flood without them knowing, one example of this instance is the Logic Plague which so far has infected living beings and artificial intelligence constructs.
@@PoppyPoppa nope read the fluff first. UNRETCONNED info states that they cant directly control anything without central neural system and its nigh-impossible for them infect chitin basis lifeforms. Why do you think Halo rings only wipes out sentient life and not life itself. Also Tyranids are basically all animals with few notable exceptions and even those exceptions are more like living antennas which means Graveminds cant hack into Hive mind. Not to mention, while Flood is not controlled by a singular entity but the clusters of Graveminds that can fuse, Hive mind is monolithic and also so powerful even space hell gods crap their pants when it's near. Every psychic sensitive being goes mad with the just arrival of the Tyranid fleet into the system. Forming Gravemind would just overload from sheer psychic pressure and even galaxy spawning Gravemind wouldn't be able to perform its space magic anywhere near Hive mind presence since its works like scrambler for all things psychic.
Flood-
“I? I am a monument to all your sins”
“Child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no salvation- only for their sins to be passed to his son”
Dont forget that the flood also has something called neural physics, where once knowledge is absorbed into the hive, it is permenatly a part of it, even if the gravemind and all the flood is destroyed, the knowledge remains. A new gravemid inherits this knowledge when it is created.
tryranids don't have individual knowledge but the knowledge is stored in the hive I don't really know how that works but I know there's more tyranids then there are flood sure under the circumstances the flood would win but they don't have those circumstances
@@justanotherguywithoutamust2701 just gonna put it out there but we all can agree that the further a flood infection is, is when they start curb stomping the nids, a flood infection at its base is nothing more then a parasite with overwhelmingly high caps on power, nids in the WHM40k universe have already reached there theoretical cap and the only thing left for them is to finish the universe off, that being said it heavily relies on if the flood have a grave mind or not, if not the flood essentially have a stalemate of not being able to win at all and just exist in the universe, while if they do get a grave mind then that is when the scale of power tips towards the flood, a grave mind at its lowest knows about the technology of any past flood infection including the forunner flood war, that alone is enough to exponentially increase the power of the infection, the flood also have the ability to gain knowledge its self, and if given the chance can most likely overpower the nids own central intelligence and take it for itself, at that point the nids lose, and the flood proceed to move on to a transdemensional stage in under a few years based on the universe they are in.
@@justanotherguywithoutamust2701 When they used a star road as a weapon, i saw those circumstances as an ultimate victory.
@@justanotherguywithoutamust2701 Id like to point out a misconception people have with the creation of a grave mind, it actually has nothing to do with the consumption of intelligent species and is based purely on the considerations of bio-mass, when there is sufficient bio-mas there is the gradual "re-awaking" of previous existing intelligence of grave-minds. Admittedly the consumption of intelligent species does accelerate this but it is not necessary in terms of the re-awaking intelligence.
I think the Tyranids are just a bit underestimated here. In terms of intelligence, for example, the Tyranids actually show examples of extreme malevolent intelligence, with psyker-assisted hivemind "one-ness". Look at Zoanthropes, who actually possess direct psychic connections to the Tyranid queen, a creature theorized to span the size of a galaxy and possess nigh-infinite intelligence. Their intelligence is her own, thus meaning that the intelligence of the Tyranid queen manifests through a physical proxy. As well, look at Hive Tyrants, who are biologically and intellectually immortal, in that the Tyrant is intelligent enough to learn and refine it's method of slaughter. If killed, it's body and mind can both be consumed back into the hive via Tyranid spawning pits, and can be resurrected with it's mind intact, and now having learned from previous mistakes, making it wiser. The flood are intelligent, but the Tyranids are just plain overpowered, as like most things in Games Workshop's universe.
The Gravemind of the flood that fought the Forerunners (the most powerful the flood has ever been) was able to completely outsmart the super AI used against it. Another comment here describes how it could access and use technology far beyond the Forerunners to easily wipe out some of their strongest defenses. I'm not expert on Tyranids but the Gravemind's immense intelligence is also not to be underestimated.
@@KingdomOfDimensions read about the Hive Mind. Anything with a mind that even comes close to it's general vicinity would liquefy. The shadow in the warp would most likely stress out the Gravemind, to put it mildly.
@@Lycurgus1982 Thats not really anything special in 40k. Psykers get their minds blown (literally) all the time by the horrors of the warp, which is what the Tyranids use to cause this.
I have only one thing to say:
The Beast from Homeworld Cataclysm.
The scariest and most forgotten plague in gaming history.
As much as 40K fans like to deny, there are too many sci-fi franchises that can dominate all factions without breaking a sweat...
@@plasmakitten4261
"Mainstream"
Yet, Marvel, DC, and Doctor Who show 40K who's the boss...
Hell, I would say even ancient Halo is more or less equal to ancient 40K in terms of power...
@@plasmakitten4261
"Evenly matched..."
Lol...
When Chaos Gods can causally erase the material universes, then we'll talk...
@@plasmakitten4261
When unified, the Chaos Gods can reach the power to destroy pseudo-universes inside the Warp.
In both Marvel and DC, destroying universes singlehandedly isn't that impressive...
@@陳潔明-w6y that's boring
No Xenomorphs?
Lol they are pretty weak compared to all of these players
Hum...the Xenos actually have a pretty good defense against being infected. Their blood is really highly acidic even to the point of melting/eating away at the Yajuta metal.
Xenomorph invades ship and kills everyone and lays eggs
Tryanids invades and converts a massive bloody space church later invades planet and starts to transform whole system into a hive to breed and start all over again
Who would win
hype_Lenin Lenin if the flood can adapt to the high acidity of blood, then gg but their knowledge and iq would be no use for the flood. But how dare we speak against our glorious leader lenin
and the xenomorphs are able to quickly overrun a planet within hours.
Yeah, the Tyranids would just gobble them up and the rest would not have it much harder
I personally think the technocyte virus in Warframe is the most terrifying since it runs 1. Runs on a hivemind, 2. Can infect BOTH living and mechanical/artificial begins and 3. Has a near 100% infection rate.
Warframe has a lot of terrifying bioweapons hiding in the lore. Underrated future-apocalypse universe.
Just like the flood from halo then
Literally the Flood as well
So.. the same as the Flood?
Isn't that just a weaker flood? The floods pretty much just that but it absorbs knowledge as well. Infact as soon as any knowledge is found by a flood it's permanently apart of the flood even if it never touches or is learned by a sperate hive of it. When a grave mind is formed it gains all knowledge from every other grave mind that's ever existed
Tyranid psychic abilities should not have been glossed over in this video. One specific aspect of their psychic gestalt could be the deciding factor in an overwhelming Tyranid victory.
The Shadow of the Warp is capable of blocking out communications from every source in Warhammer 40K. With enough force, the Shadow of the Warp can even seal shut Warp rifts, tears in reality itself, overcoming another dimension that is arguably far more dangerous and unpredictable than Slipspace.
If the Shadow in the Warp is capable of affecting the Flood's collective consciousness, it would effectively be able to leverage local superiority in every single engagement by reducing all Flood forms within the Hive Fleet's range to their individual intelligence, simultaneously blinding the Flood's combined consciousness regarding what is happening in every single AO and stripping them of their advanced tactical and strategic abilities, including potentially harnessing other technology and weaponry.
Considering that the Shadow of the Warp possesses a range exceeding that of an entire solar system, there is very, VERY little chance of outranging or circumventing the Hive Fleets and their Shadows of the Warp, should this ability be effective. Honestly, the only option at that point may be to seek out Halo Arrays in an effort to achieve mutual destruction.
Even the Flood Infection Forms of an opening-stage outbreak are still capable of coordinating with one another in an effort to expand. But if the Shadow of the Warp is effective, even this coordination would be utterly gone unless they can communicate and apply tactics through some other method such as pheromones or auditory input.
@@internetzenmaster8952 Definitely, I worded carefully in case neural physics was somehow immune, but considering how immaterium-based shenanigans can affect even machines and inanimate objects in 40K (with one example being our beloved Greenskins), I find this very, very doubtful.
IMO, best case scenario for the Flood is that their neural physics system would be unknown to the Tyranids until the Hive Fleet got a proper hold and understanding of their genetic material. Considering how much the Flood throw away in even small-scale engagements, I can't imagine they'd be able to keep that from the Hive Mind for long at all. Hours, maybe.
Also, I can't imagine how horrifyingly powerful the Tyranids would get if they found a way to harness Flood Super Cells. Good lord.
This topic is interesting I happen to know more about the flood then tyranids, so from what I can tell you the flood would like have no issue's consuming tyranids not to underestimate tyranids but the flood is unstoppable once it hits a certain point, literally being able to warp time and space I don't think they would have any issue destroying just about any race if they got to that point nothing can really stop them, hence why the forerunners destroyed all life in the galaxy to stop the flood just look at how fast the flood took over high charity if you take the flood and give it several key minds then every flood combat form is micro managed by the keymind every millisecond making it nearly impossible to fight in 1 on 1 combat since it is able to jump to insane height your basically fighting 1 creature with insane intellect now take that one creature and make it able to infect any biomass that exists tyranids are not immune to having their biomass taken since the flood uses dead tissue (it literally makes humans kill themselfs when it takes their bodies) so any tyranid that dies to the flood becomes the flood and the flood will learn everything the tyranids know since its a hive mind.
BrewChuTrain the thing is it really depends on if the Shadow in the warp will affect the flood. This ability in general cuts off any psychic communication. So the fight would depend on if the shadow works.
Say it does work, the flood revert to the base instincts of the combat forms and all coordination falls to verbal orders if that can be achieved. This gives the Tyranids a much better chance to win the fight as Tyranids also can consume dead bio mass to repopulate. Granted at a slower rate.
If the Shadow doesn’t work then yes flood will most likely out think the Tyranids and win the day.
@@TreyHardin28 Very interesting, I should really take the time to read up on tyranid lore seems really interesting, My thoughts are the flood would likely be smart enough to know about such a thing and take counter measures to avoid it I guess it really comes down to a couple things but don't forget one single flood spore can destroy an entire species .
@BrewChuTrain Yeah I just recently got into Warhammer so I’m no expert but I find them very interesting. Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t the flood require a central nervous system to infect a creature.
U just keep on making better and better vids!
Keep up the good work!
I got my family sick with my cold. Clearly i need to be on this list.
Great video but several things were missed about the necromorphs, first they can utilize any Biomass but need Sentient Beings to form a Brethren Moon, and like the flood they can create pure forms.
The necromorohs also spread a virus like the Flood, this virus seems to do the same as the flood does and assimilates and changes dead cells into a cell like version of the virus, essentially transforming them.
Third, Necromorphs are never killed they are simply stopped from attacking, and will be reabsorbed to use as biomass.
Finally we don’t know if the Brethren Moons are the Necromorphs final stage, while so far we haven’t (and most likely will not) see what happens if the brethren moons are endangered enmasse, it would seem possible for them to combine into something larger and more dangerous.
Also throw in the Borg from Star Trek, the Beast from Homeworld, and the Zerg and now it's a party.
And Infested from Warframe. Then can the party start. :D
Zerg are too weak...
@lairum hurb
Zerg cannot even conquer a single sector...
Zerg got routinely halt by the Terrans...
Zerg need to amass their forces just to take Korhal...
And you're saying the Zerg isn't weak???
@asian lee
Btw, the Beast would beat the Flood and the Tyranids...
It's basically the Flood but can infect non-oraganic matter as well...
Though the Blight from another franchise would trump the Beast...
The Blight is basically the Flood with instant Chaos corruption...
@asian lee
The Beast is from Homeworld...
Blight-- Fire upon the Deep.
You didn't put Nurgle's Blight.
It's Nurgle's Rot, and that one is not really special compared to the other factions.
Sorry, i'm still new to 40k.
Or the npc plague
@@robertnelson9599 how can a plague that turn you into a daemon of nurgle not being special is considered one if not the most powerful and dangerous plague of nurgle
Mraz Helmer I think Orks would be more appropriate.
Spartans vs N7 or Pilots (Titanfall) and UNSC Marines vs System Alliance Marines
Swap out Spartans with odsts and ye that sounds good
Id say spartans win. Easy difficulty. But thats if we dont take biotics as a factor. With biotics idk thats a hard topic to determine. And as for pilots id be willing to bet that a spartan who weighs in at 1000lbs in armor and can run about 35mph could in my mind easily and quickly climb a titan, punch through the " face " of the titan, and rip the pilot right out of his seat. I also feel that if a pilot self destructed that it wouldnt do much either as spartans are pretty hardy. After all in the beginning of halo 3 we see master cheif fall from FKING SPACE lol and basically just stands up and shrugs it off like its another day at the office.
@Bence Kálmánczhelyi But the pilots destroy any n7 since I heard their training has like a 1% or 2% survival chance which means they are the best of best of best of the best.
Pilots lose against either of the other factions. SPARTANs are the more physically powerful soldiers, but the Alliance has way more advanced weaponry. It's a toss-up that'll come down to what kind of tech and biotics you give the Alliance.
Dramatic_Gaming idk pilots can go even in my book, pilots have the maneuverability, phasing dimensions tech, camo, crawling mines, exo suits, and damaging heavy weapons
I think you could also add the reapers from mass effect as well they'd fit handsomely here as a like cross between Necro and brood
The reapers get corrupted by the logic plague
My honest opinion is that the flood represent a bigger threat. I love the nids, and I am a HUGE Warhammer fan. I definitely get more involved with 40k than Halo, but the fact is, the flood have more immediate potential. The Halo rings were even designed to wipe out all life in a large area as a contingency plan against the flood. One flood spore, while week at first, can easily lead to an entire galaxy in danger in a pretty impressive amount of time. But, with tyranids, it's not like you can have one gaunt make planet fall and that planet is pretty much already screwed. Tyranids need to already be advanced to a certain degree to be a planetary threat. That being said, once tyranids make it to that point, I feel like the tyranids become MORE deadly than the flood. So it really depends on what kind of timeline we are looking at
Exactly, also the flood descended from a species that literally created life and could fly through the universe using technology that could wipe out everything.
@@Pano1 that doesn't really matter as the only precursor technology/techniques they utilize is neural physics in the form of the logic plague and neural assimilation.
@@meeep9099 the thing is, what you just said does matter.
@@Pano1 it kinda doesn't because until the flood are very well along in their evolutionary line via assimilation of species, they possess none of the precursors more potent reality bending abilities. Near the end of the forerunner-flood war they were reaching this state but were stopped by the firing of the halo array
It's worth remembering that nids are typically dependent on the hive as a hole. We have never seen what them building from scratch looks like. How much can the 'queen' do alone? Can nids use a more subtle strategy seeding from a single organism that can grow and reproduce into all the base needed bioforms from rippers to bioships?
What is more fundamentally dangerous depends on how little is needed to turn into a galactic or intergalactic threat imo. Nids have there own ships but how easily can they make a new one from just what is on a planet. We do sort of see this in the dawn of war 2 nid faction campaign where it seems we start with little more than a hivetyrant, grunts, and other leftover bioforms from a destroyed fleet. Without suitable host with Interstellar capabilities the flood can't really do much on the other hand. So nids seem to need the hive fleet where as flood need an interstellar civilization.
I think Orks technically count in this category as well.
Ray Anderson well based on the sheer fact that Orks act as a fungal force. Not really assimilating anything more just like.... a planetary cockney accented mold it makes sense as to why they aren’t.
Wait Orks don’t have a nervous system do they? Can’t remember
i hope you didn't forget the logic plague against the zero dawn machines.
A staved swarm might just eat the flood before the logic plague could do much
From what I remember it is possible to make AI too stupid for the logic plague. That is sort of what offensive bias was and it won
The Faro Plague is not intelligent enough for that to work. It's not a true AI, just a robotic hivemind that's got its programming stuck in Seek and Destroy mode.
The Dizz Jizz one spore lands on the Fero plague then gets consumed
That's actually now to modern mankind
An couple interesting thoughts:
-Could a Dead Space Marker affect a Flood Gravemind?
-Could a Dead Space Marker affect the Tyranids?
-Could the Faro Plague robots absorb the biomass of the other Parasites on this list?
-Could the Flood Gravemind eventually take control over the Faro Swarm or would it be too difficult for it?
-If a Flood Gravemind has absorbed every (or most) of the Milkyway's biomass, would it be more intelligent than the Tyranid's Hivemind?
-Could any of the parasites take over a planet that is being devoured by the Faro Plague? (I'm not sure, it probably depends how far they are as the Markers seem to only work on intelligent beings like humans, the Tyranids take a lot of time to prepare and harvest a planet, meaning they'll have some setbacks with those robots consuming the biomass they need. The flood probably has the best chance as they don't need intelligent beings, but they do prefer it so they can quickly make a proto-gravemind.)
-Would the Tyranids even attempt to interrupt Zero Day (the moment the Faro Plague has consumed all of Earth's biomass)?
-Could the Faro Plague/Swarm eventually advance enough to travel to other planets to continue their endless 'need' for consumption?
Regarding the question of if a Gravemind can take over the Faro Swarm, the answer to that is almost certainly: Yes. The Logic Plague in the hands of a Gravemind is one thing, as its designed primarily to subdue AI. However in the hands of a Keymind, the Logic Plague can be used to infect literally any form of intelligence, no matter what form it takes. Keyminds in the Forerunner-Flood War used something called Neurophysics in tandem with the Logic Plague to infect space-time itself, an arguably much more difficult feat than infecting the Faro Swarm.
I also doubt the marker could affect a Gravemind, as if some humans are immune to its effects, then all it takes is a singular flood spore infecting any immune creature, to make the entirety of the flood across all reality immune. If the Flood has access to a Keymind, I'd be confident saying it wins practically every engagement. However if the flood can be stopped before it can create a Keymind, then its easily the weakest of the mentioned factions in the video.
@@celarc99Nobody is immune to markers. There are people who are resistant to it meaning it takes longer for them to go insane.
@@titantheguardian7524 Exactly. If a mere human can be resist it for years on end, then imagine something which is so far beyond human intelligence that it doesn't even consider us microbes.
A Marker probably can affect a gravemind but a Brethern moon probably can overide a Keymind
Anyone remember the Beast from Homeworld Cataclysm?
That one will stomp the flood, that where flood come from (inspiration)
I have to give this to the Tyranids, and if the reader will indulge my loquacious nature, I can explain why. I think many people, including Eckhart's Ladder, may be misunderstanding the Tyranid lore a little here. It is not that the Tyranids are unintelligent or bestial, but rather that their intellect is alien, and utterly unlike that of any creature such as a human or even a powerful AI. An individual lesser Tyranid form like a Hormagaunt may be no more intelligent than a dog, and a creature like Hive Tyrant might have the equivalent of greater than genius level post-human intellect, focused solely on tactics and strategy, but both are only tiny motes of the collective Tyranid Hive Mind, whose alien consciousness simply doesn't operate on the same level or in remotely the same way as the mind of a being like a human, and AI, or even the Flood collective, but different does not necessarily mean lesser.
The Hive Mind operates on an intergalactic scale and a time frame measured in aeons - it is the definition of a long game player. A war that lasts ten thousand years means but little to species that operates on timescales that canonically measure in hundreds of millions or billions of years. The sheer disparity in scale of numbers and time frame over which action is taken between the Tyranids and all other factions on the list is difficult to even express clearly. Eckhart's Ladder suggests that the Tyranids have made relatively inefficient use of the biomass they have harvested from multiple galaxies, but we don't actually know what they have done with the vast majority of it. In the 40K canon, the Tyranid Hive Fleets so far encountered are only the first, tentative scouting forces - the merest tendril tips of a incomprehensibly vast intergalactic monster that is coiling around the Milky Way. The greater bulk of the Swarm is still on its way, and the Hive Fleets have the biological templates for many more bioforms the Imperium has never codified because no one who has encountered them has ever lived to tell the tale. We just don't know how strong the Swarm really is, but the fact that the Silent King of the Necrons (the leader of a hyper-tech faction at least on a technological par with the Forerunners and with technology so advanced it let them defeat the C'tan, who were to all intents and purposes gods who could warp physical reality at will to the extent of going bowling with Black Holes for fun - we are talking multiple beings each of whom was Thanos with the full Infinity Gauntlet/Doctor Manhattan powerful and then some) has returned from journeying beyond the Milky Way and is to put it very mildly indeed worried about the Swarm gives you some idea of the true scale of the threat.
Eckhart's Ladder also state the the Tyranids are focused only on consumption and replication, but we don't know that. The lore makes it clear that no other faction in the 40K continuity even begins to understand the Tyranids - their origin or their true motivations and goals. When the Tyranids consume and replicate, that could be a goal unto itself or the means to an unknown end - we don't know, and we don't know because as I have already observed the Tyranids come with an extensive dose of Lovecraftian horror, meaning that their unknown and likely unknowable nature is very much deliberate, not accidental.
That the Tyranids may well have a purpose beyond straightforward consumption is hinted at repeatedly in the lore. Not only does the Swarm show a strong grasp of tactics and strategy on levels from individual skirmishes up to a coordinated galactic invasion on literally thousands of simultaneous fronts (and the hint that they may well be invading multiple galaxies at the same time, with the entire 40K setting being merely one war front among many for the Swarm), but the most recent codex describes Tyranid behaviour at odds with the idea of a strictly migratory swarm of Galactic locusts with no greater purpose behind its actions. One of the Tyranid Hive Fleets has dug in around a particular world rather than stripping it an moving on, and has harvested many local solar systems in order to amass a huge quantity of biomass to create a bioconstruct of planet covering scope that amounts to several continents worth of what is described as pulsing encephalic flesh that emits truly vast quantities of Tyranid psychic energy, so much so that the Shadow in the Warp is unprecedentedly potent in that vicinity, and will kill even the strongest non-Tyranid psykers, or drive anyone else insane, much more quickly than even the more usual Hive Fleet Shadow in the Warp can. This might be a beacon to draw more Hive Fleets to the Milky Way, like the Pharos from the Horus Heresy epoch that first drew the Swarm's attention to this galaxy, but there is no actual evidence that is what this thing does. It is one of the most powerful examples of psychic engineering in the entirety of 40K, and its purpose is a total mystery. I know Eckhart's Ladder wanted to exclude psychic abilities from this discussion, but this speaks to the intelligence of the Swarm and the scale on which it thinks and operates.
Similarly, in the new codex, we hear for the first time about Hive Fleet Kronus, a direct response from the Hive Mind to the formation of the Ciciatrix Maledictum and the huge numbers of Daemons entering the galaxy and tainting its biomass. The Hive Mind very quickly adapted a fleet to counter extra dimensional, literally magical daemon armies (a threat unlike any other adversary faced by the Swarm or any other fraction in this list) , and according to the lore Hive Fleet Kronus is extremely good at what it was created to do, steadily stitching the fabric of reality itself back together to preserve the Hive Minds feeding grounds from contamination. That is how good at adapting to threats the Tyranids are - they can deal with enormous armies of reality warping magic demi-god monsters like they are no more than a minor setback, and the fact that the Swarm acted so quickly and with such decisiveness speaks to a honed tactical and strategic sensibility beyond mindless, bestial hunger.
As for adaptation of a less esoteric sort, the Swarm has shown an ability to swiftly evolve total immunity to the Life Eater virus, a planet killing bioweapon of such insane potency that it can reduce all other forms of organic life ever encountered by the Imperium into soup within seconds of exposure and vitrify rock in the process, and the Swam not only survived that attack, but harnessed the weapon and went on to use it itself. The Swarm has faced countless super weapons of all forms in the past and has always adapted immunity or otherwise negated or minimised the threat. One silver bullet answer to the Swarm after another has failed miserably, and cultures that rely on that approach have wound up as lunch. As such, the Flood's most central ability - the capacity to subvert the nervous system of other species to seize control - is not a trump card against the Swarm. The Flood uses some biological pathway in their attacks, and the Swarm would not only swiftly evolve immunity to that avenue of attack, but would consume and adapt the Flood method for their own Swarms. It would come down to a race of adaptation on the microscopic, cellular level, and not even a faction like the Borg can begin to match the Swarm on that battlefield, so I think the Flood would be at a profound disadvantage.
@@Fourger14 There is also the point that the single spore infection vector of the Flood is a comparatively weak, unintelligent and easily taken out if discovered creature, where the equivalent infiltration and infection vector vanguard creature of the Swarm is the Purestrain Genestealer, which is basically the critter the Xenomorph hangs pictures of on its wall and hopes to be when it grows up. It is immensely strong and tough, far more so than even most posthumans, quite capable of tearing a fully armoured Astares (the 40K equivalent of a Spartan for those who don't know, but even more heavily augmented, armoured and armed) limb from limb with its taloned hands, and with a second set or arms tipped with rending claws that can carve through tank armour if called upon. It is also the definition of fast and deadly (they even have a rule called that), able to dodge bullets in flight and move far too fast for the unaugmented eye to follow, but its physical prowess is not the true nature of its threat - its bulbous cranium is not just for show, because these things are intelligent, at least as much as a human, and inhumanly patient. A Flood or Necromorph infection vector will begin infecting the first viable host it finds, and will soon tip off any defenders to their presence through their open replication without thought of discovery. Once that happens, the immature infestation can be isolated and cauterised before it builds up enough momentum to be a threat if the defenders act decisively.
Conversely, the Purestrain Genestealer is far more subtle than that. Genestealer's hide undetected upon star ships, and the first thing they do upon reaching a viable world is find the best planetside hiding spot they can. Then they begin preying upon the local populace, but not just anyone they come across at any time. They strike at times when they are most likely to get away with it undetected, in the dead of night or during times of chaos and confusion, and they are careful to initially take those who will not be missed, such as the disfranchised and marginalised of the world they are infesting. They use hypnotic powers to incapacitate their chosen victim without undue violence or risk of discovery and pass a measure of their own genetic material to their victim by means of a form of ovipositor, leaving a genetic payload beneath the skin, reworking and changing the victim's mind and germline DNA in a way too subtle to be readily detected by even the most sophisticated technology. Those they infect don't instantly become ravening - and easily spotted - monsters, but instead are psychically slaved to the Genestealer's will but remain outwardly human. They continue to operate undetected in society, and aid the Genestealer in infecting new victims. Perhaps the formerly inveterate addict suddenly and unexpectedly cleans up their act, their former drug of choice holding no further power over them, and starts a new job, perhaps in sanitation, maintaining sewers and drains, thus granting the Genestealer unobserved access to almost any point in a city. Over time the infected procreate with other infected members of their species, and a first generation of Genestealer hybrids come into being. While monstrous in appearance, these creatures are not mindless killers but are quite able to hide their true nature, and the Cult now has enough humanoid infected to provide hiding place for their more mutated kin. And so the Cult slowly grows in number, building its momentum up over time, infesting one layer of the social structure of the doomed world after another, all while the bulk of the populous remain blissfully ignorant of the horror nestling in their midst. The Genestealer that started it all grows ever larger, stronger, more powerful and intelligent, ultimately developing potent hypnotic psychic abilities and becoming a Genestealer Patriarch, head of the brood. Generation after generation of hybrid monsters are born in the hidden, dark places of the world, by the forth generation appearing outwardly entirely human but for baldness and a tendency toward heavy bone structure, making mass infiltration of the host culture even easier for the Cult, with psychically gifted Genestealer magi able to use their powers to spread a religious and/or political creed that influences the entire world and draws more and more people into the fold. The fifth generation are all born as undiluted Purestrain Genestealers, creating a corps of obscenely deadly alien shock troops and the means to exponentially accelerate further infection. If anyone suspects there are monsters in their midst, they find no evidence, only vague and easily discredited rumours of things lurking in the hidden places of the world and preying upon the unwary like fairy tale monsters. Those who dig too deep are discredited or infected and then used to counter their own former theories.
What happens next varies. Unless somehow discovered in time - difficult given how much influence the Cult will have accrued within the infested world - The Cult grows strong enough to subvert every arm and level of society and government on the afflicted world. The psychic spoor of the Cult may eventually grow strong enough to draw a Hive Fleet to consume the infested world, the Cult rising up to cripple defences from within even as essentially numberless hordes of bioform killing machines invade from orbit, aiding the Swarm in consuming the world before being consumed in their turn, the Purerstrain Genestealers turning upon their deluded 'children' alongside the Swarm's armies at the last. Maybe the Cult will eventually grow so strong and numerous before the Hive Fleet arrives that it overthrows the government and openly assumes power, enslaving and genetically corrupting the entire populous and setting its sights on attacking neighbouring worlds. Or maybe the Cult remains hidden, its control of planetary government such that it is able to set economic and trading policy, opening interplanetary trade routes to countless other worlds, and hiding yet more Purestrain Genestealers amongst the shipments to doom yet more populations, spreading like a monstrously intelligent cancer from one unsuspecting world to another. It might all take centuries, but Genestealers are functionally immortal and unconcerned with the passage of time so long as their goals are achieved, and the Hive Mind does not conceptualise time as humans do, operating over timescales measured in tens or hundreds of millions of years; a century more or less to ensure the success of an invasion is a small price to pay as the Hive Mind reckons such things.
That level of planning. That patience and intelligence. That ability to spread undetected and turn the prey's own cultures, technology and beliefs against them, and all from day one, is one of the many things that makes the Swarm uniquely dangerous. The Swarm takes every precaution and weights every variable in its favour to make sure that its infection, infiltration and subversion creatures of choice have a better chance of longer term and wider ranging success than any equivalent creature from similar factions in science fiction.
also these scouting fleets got super fucking far into the galaxy and have claimed many planets already
Well said. Even the stratagem collective have said that the hive fleet leviathan was merely a forward scout. And that the swarm is coming with great numbers. With the Imperium being split in half and cadia being destroyed I believe the milky way is to far spread out to really defend against it. I think the Necrons are the only hope for the milky way at this point
If it can think or feel pain the flood will win the only way it can adapt against the flood will be to make itself brain-dead or Fry its own nervous system.
How would you rate the Zerg then? I know they weren't in this list ( don't get why not ) but they're fairly similar and evolve at a stupifying rate, even faster now under Abathur than when the Overmind was in control. And they specifically choose what races to assimilate - everything else is just food.
Im calling that halo will be first
Agreed.
I personally like the Fero plague as the idea of self-replicating, biomass-consuming, heavily-armed, and neigh-unhackable robots is terrifying to me and it’s also a technological rather than a biological plague
I think it has a chance against the Tyranids due to the ability of the Chariots being able to consume biomass, could easily kill a significant number of Tyranids, and can self-repair. However, the vast number of the Tyranids would likely be too much
The necromorphs are just no bueno as the Markers can’t infect robots and could possibly consume a Brethren Moon
As for flood, two words, Logic Plague
@@jackurquhart7994 yes but Eck likes the flood too much
Once the flood has a keymind they are UNSTOPPABLE
@@gorycarcass2272 no
The X Parasites from Metroid could easily place on a list like this. In concept they're essentially John Carpenter's The Thing on super steroids just going off of how fast they spread. They're able to consume/replace all life on a planet in a matter of hours. No, that's not hyperbole. The exact amount of X that started the infection aren't known but they can reproduce fast, fly, phase through most materials and the only thing immune to them are the Metroids who also serve as the X's only predator. The X can copy the DNA of their hosts (living or dead), being able to perfectly replicate the form of previous hosts as well as copy their memories and experiences as well. The X can also alter the DNA of the forms they assume to better suit the X's purposes as well as combine the traits of two or more organisms a particular X have copied in the past (this can result in some Cronenberg monstrosities).
The X have only been in Fusion and are stated to be in Metroid Dread so there isn't as much information on the X compared to the Flood so we don't know what an end game infection of the X would be like. This is because, as far as the Metroid universe is concerned, an X Parasite infestation is immediate grounds for Exterminatus. The entire planet has to go, the X cannot be allow to survive. If the X assume the form of an intelligent species like humans and spread to 2 or more planets, that's it. Samus is part Metroid and can oppose the X but they reproduce too fast for Samus to hunt them all down, even when confined to the BSL Station in Fusion. X in their base forms are unaffected by Samus' beams and Missiles. Power Bombs are essentially nukes that vaporize most everything in it's radius, but X in their base gelatinous forms are stunned for a few seconds. You need weapons of mass destruction to kill X in their base forms, that by itself is a huge issue.
@@danjoredd In Metroid Fusion, Samus surmised that if they X are able to consume the knowledge of an intelligent species and get access to a ship, they would spread across the galaxy at an exponential rate. We don't know if the X would do that for sure since there was a group of Chozo that attempted to make a settlement on SR388, the X homeworld, long before Samus arrived on SR388 and the X hadn't spread across the entire planet. It's after the Chozo dug into SR388 to harvest it's unique Aeion energy source did the Chozo encounter the X.
The one and only priority of the X is the survival of their species, willingly sacrificing themselves in large numbers if necessary. There was an X in Fusion that took the form of a scientist to cause the main boiler on the BSL Station, the space station Metroid Fusion takes place on, to go critical. Had Samus not stopped this, the BSL would have been destroyed and Samus would have been killed along with all the X on the station. There were many powerful X hosts on the BSL including the SA-X, an X clone of Samus at full power. Destroying all of that was deemed a worthy sacrifice if it meant killing Samus, the last Metroid. Another example is when the X adapted to the sub-zero temperature zone of Sector 5. These new blue X would freeze Samus from within if she absorbed them. This would hurt Samus since she's now part Metroid and inherited their weakness to cold. So, these blue X set out to chase Samus down in large numbers so she could absorb them, sacrificing themselves in however many numbers were necessary to kill Samus. The X don't have a hive mind per say, but they are able to work together to stop Samus in several ways throughout Fusion.
As we've both stated, the biggest shortcoming of the X in a debate like this is the lack of information. They haven't been in many Metroid games so we don't know how they would react if they had access to intelligent hosts for a long period of time, especially since the X don't share a hive mind like the Tyranids or have the sort of "ancestral memory" of the Flood. The biggest danger is how quickly they can spread and that you need high yield explosives to kill X since Samus' Power Bombs stun X for a few seconds and that's it.
True, true…
You must have made this Prior to dread showing that yes, they X attempt to go from planet to planet. But the X have multiple advantages over both Flood and Tryranid not mentioned.
1. Hyper evolution/mutation: The X don't just infect a life form, they mutate it to be much more powerful than it was before. If a threat, like Samus, comes along, then it keeps mutating to make even stronger forms, even giving the creatures abilities they never had before.
2. Multiplying while infecting. The X can multiply rapidly while in transformed states. During Fusion, the X were capable of multiplying while they were still transformed as Samus' power suit. According to Adam, there were 10 SA-X on the ship by the end. 10 fully powered Samus could easily take an army.
3. Neigh invulnerability: Metroids we're literally created because not even the Chozo, whose technology once allowed them to rule the galaxy during their waring days, couldn't stop them. They needed something that literally ate life energy to stop them. Outside of a nuke, they are unstoppable.
They do have glaring weaknesses. If a gate or strong hold are good enough, it can contain them. While their gel like forms are invulnerable, when they've infected something, that form can be destroyed. Now depending on what they copied, that can be hard to do (SA-X are only harmed by Plasma beams or stronger).
Do I think it can take the flood? They can't but only because the X can truly be sealed away behind a dome or underground
@@Tkscz I made my initial post after Dread came out and I beat the game day 1. I just didn't want to state much from Dread to avoid spoiling people who haven't played the game yet.
A funny moment:
Eckhart: "...Now, let's take a look at the Necromorphs, which-"
*Ad starts* "Spectrum internet delivers!"
Me: O_o'
You should try Adblock. xD
Alarec Scarbrow but with adblock we can’t have foony sentences like “Now, let’s take a look at the Necromorphs, which spectrum internet delivers.”
@@smokestack3327 lol
Yes
"Some zombies focus on survivability"
That's kinda setting yourself up for failure isn't it?
>Plague versus
>Doesn't have Nurglite plagues
It would be an unfair stomp tho.
Funny how he wouldn't mention plagues that are literally made out of tiny, nugrlite daemons.
Internet Zen Master GREEN IZ DA BEST
Nurgle is too op
The imbodiment of Disease is too OP. Dead space like telecommunicated mutated plague, check, corruption of inorganics and AI ,check. Feasting on things at a molecular level through demonic viruses, check. EXISTING IN EVERYMOMENT OF POINT IN TIME AND SPACE IN THE WARP, TRIPLE CHECK.
I’d like to see a recap on Destiny’s nanovirus, SIVA. It seems that the nanovirus itself is almost sentient while it “perfects” its victims.
You would be more or less correct. It kind of is. It is told what to do. But is kind of sentient.
I say this as a massive Destiny fan:
SIVA would get utterly trounced in this competition. It’s cool, but ultimately it’s a human-made virus going up against eldritch abominations from the blackest pits of space
This is actually a really great thing to discuss! If the question is 'which would win if the Flood and Tyranids fought with everything they have with their most recently depicted strengths,' the win goes to the Tyranids for the reason you've mentioned above: They have unknown Galaxies worth of biomass stored up in their reserves, and have perfected a form of rapid adaptation and evolution that responds not only to their environment but the biomass they consume. It's not unheard of for the first wave of tyranid war beasts to die horrific deaths due to a planet's conditions (temperature, toxicity, etc) and each subsequent wave develops biomorphs that allows it to better survive said environments. After consuming an Eldar Craftworld, an entirely new beast began appearing in the Tyranid hive fleets with horrific psychic abilities never seen before. There's even evidence that the Hive Mind dedicates specific fleets to combat specific threats that it finds in the galaxy.
Given the Tyranids rapid evolution capacities, I have -no doubt- that the would rapidly develop an immunity to Flood infestation before subsequently adding the Flood's unique biology to the Hive Fleet's toolkit... but this isn't the interesting question. The interesting scenario to consider is this: If a small group of Tyranids were dropped onto a world and -completely- severed from the hive mind... would they pose as much of a threat?
Your video does a great job of illustrating the threat of the Flood: A single flood has the biological imperative to spread and propagate and the Gravemind slowly develops as a result of this process. More biomass leads to more Flood, which leads to a greater gestalt intelligence that eventually becomes the Gravemind. Assuming that there's a spaceworthy race (or other method) on the planet that would allow them to escape, a single flood spore can threaten the galaxy.
The Tyranids, however, are in a different boat. The basic Tyranid beasts, Hormagaunts and Termagaunts, are certainly deadly in their own right... but without a synaptic link to the Hive Mind they are no more threatening then your typical killing machine with four claws and teeth for days. Only larger or specialized Tyranids can communicate with the Hive Mind through the synaptic link, and thus receive direction to create gestation and digestion pools and collect biomass to convert into new forces. So the real question is this: Would a pack of Hormagaunts have both the capability and the instinct to do what their species has to do in order to reproduce without the direction of the Hive Mind? To that question, I have no earthly idea, and I'll leave that question up to folks who are a bit more well versed in Tyranid lore.
Now, Genestealers might be a better comparison though it's a bit like comparing apples to oranges regarding the flood. The Genestealers are, at their base, a highly specialized tool that the Hive Fleets use to both select targets for future attacks as well as undermine the defenses of said targets. They definitely have the instinctual drive that would eventually lead to Purestrain Genestealers, and Genestealer Cults always produce a broodlord that can link to the hive mind....
Eh, this was a fun discussion to bring up!
Whilst the Tyranid Codex I've read multiple times is in no way the latest codex available, I may be able to help with your question on the capability of Hormagaunts and Termagants.
Creatures that do not have the synaptic link will follow one of two base instincts: To hide (Which the Termagants have, if my memory serves) or to feed (which is exhibited by Hormagaunts, again if memory serves). So, they will not have the initiative required to gather biomass to fuel an invasion, however they will remain a nuisance, rather than a threat.
This means that an invasion without synaptic creatures would be fruitless, the inhabitants of the planet may be killed off but the biomass would simply go unused. However, it also means that killing off synaptic creatures during an invasion would not aid the defenders, as they would still need to deal with all the leftover instinctive creatures.
Should the flood realise this (Which would most likely occur from infecting the corpse of a synaptic Tyranid), they may be able to defeat the Tyranids by dismantling this chain of command. Given that Tyranids need to recover biomass to create new troops whilst the Flood simply inhabit the remains of a creature, the Flood would win battles far easier should they be given a chance to counter-attack. As user "Eric Adkins" mentions in his comment, if the Flood were to consume as much as the Tyranids have, they would evolve to a similar point. In such a scenario I would say that the Flood would win outright, as their number would remain somewhat indifferent during battles and they seem more interconnected than the Tyranids. However, at the points they are depicted as being at their peak in their respective lores, I have to agree with Eckharts here in that there are many details that would need to be examined to see which exactly would win.
I apologise for any spelling mistakes as well.
Also the gravemind would get the same memories as the previous
I think what would be better is the Flood vs the Zerg
to answer hormagaunt reproduction
they carry eggs instead of a digestive tract, hormagaunts are on a timer to kill things and then die exhausted on a pile of corpses to feed the eggs, but their larva can eat plant too
a hormagaunt usually spawns 20 new ones a day after it dies and has a expected duration of 48 hours in the adult stage
and while it has rarely been necessary, given time and the need for it hormagaunts can mutate one to become a synapse creature as i think i remember was a rule in 2e that let you upgrade a gaunt in a squad
since nids usually come in ships carrying the hive mind and plenty of spawning pools to drop in new ones if necessary this is rarely used and no longer a rule on TT (it was hell to balance) but that doesnt mean they are incapable of doing that
if on a biomatter rich planet and not opposed in the first few weeks a single hormagaunt could turn into hundreds guided by a new synapse hormagaunt devolving some of the newborn into rippers that will form spawning pools and then the real invasion starts
a few years later a small and young hive ship will take off from a barren rock
termagaunts on the other hand have no way to reproduce as they are produced by host creatures or spawning pools
so they are unlikely to lead to a conquered planet
one issue with your initial premise.
The flood chased humans to the milky way in halo lore.
The flood also likely has multiple galaxies.
I would love to see how Stargate's replicators would compare
idk, they act very differently to the others, they have different goals as well, they eat tech, the flood take over people, the nids eat planets for breakfast and idk much about the others, would be interesting to see them meet though
Replicators may be interesting. At lower levels, the replicators can strip organic matter for raw materials and at higher levels can use nanites to mimic organic beings. Humans were the biggest thing in the SG verse but if they encounter the other parasites they may end up using the nanites to make flood-form or even tyranid-form replicators.
That would be interesting
Replicators would wipe all the other ones just as well if not faster than in season 7 of SG-1. They have a subspace collective knowledge and can adapt extremely quickly.
For multiworld infections, there’s also the Infested from Warframe, The Phyrexians (though not a hive mind) from MtG, Phaazon from Metroid Prime, and the Zerg from Starcraft. There’s a ton more from books and movies, and even more that are planet-bound, but I wanted to bring these up.
I’d probably put Zerg and Infested in flood/tyranid tier, phaaze with the necros, and the phyrexians as ‘it depends.’
There’s also the Bohrok, but idk how they’d work on pure flesh.
Omg yes yes Someone is talking about the infestation yes!!!!!!!!!
It is the strongest of them all
Phyrexians are probably among the most dangerous in all of fiction because they don't infect flesh, they infect your mind with a new roadmap of fundamental philosophies. Functionally, they infect *your soul*
Phaazon reminds me of the Colour Out of Space. Like a lot. Colorful meteor slams into a planet, slowly corrupts everything until everything it touches is just... wrong. Like God-forsaken wrong.
Use the great calamity war for the flood, should be as “equal” to current Tyranid activity (also it’s hinted that everything outside of the Milky Way is flood so they are very much infinite) also flood can very easily take over ships and spread cross planet, as shown in terminal videos in the halo anniversary games, the only reason they didn’t escape the rings is due to containment protocols, and if a flood absorbed, say, an engineer, they could definitely built their own means of space travel, it’s also very possible that the flood are the dead cells of “gods” being the forerunners punishment for killing the undying
Even with ftl travel Key minds wouldn't have been able to reach more than a small part of the universe. No telling what happens if and when they meet a civilization that will give them trouble.
@@CitrusPeppercorn in the anniversary terminals it’s implied the flood are still rampant outside our galaxy and drifting here slowly, there is no specification on life time either, they simply don’t need it
It’s also hinted that tyranids are the only thing outside the Milky Way
@@pinkcactuz1252isn't it hinted that the trynids are actually running from something tho? What the hell scares them.
Once the flood reaches stage 3 they become nearly unstoppable
When your up against a parasite that can infect space time.
If this was Mass Effect then there would b no flood. Because the Reapers would glass entire planets with scorching lasers rendering the pitiful Flood extinct.
@@Aegis_7VII the forerunners tried this...
EA Sense of Pride and Accomplishment dude the forerunners already tried that. A full fledged flood controlled universe vs a invasion of reapers isn’t even a contest
@@Aegis_7VII also the flood could infect the Reapers with some form of the logic plague, since the Reapers are machine beings. The flood start on the biological level, but the can infect on the computational, and even quantum level by infecting space time itself. The Flood always wins.
The tyranids and the flood are the strongest. In my opinion.
the tyranids tower over the flood, unlike the flood, tyranids are far more flexible, give them an army and they'll create infantry from biomass, give them an empty planet and theyll create gigantic towers and devour it whole in days
@@MMD-mi5vx So I assume your taking a space faring hive fleet as your example? In that case the flood at that point would also be space-faring with a gravemind, but not yet key mind, for them to be at the same stage of development. If this is the case then the flood will simply not fight them on the ground, but in space, where their superior intelligence and technology gives them the advantage. That is what people always fail to consider, the flood will simply out think the nids so that their power and numbers advantage means nothing.
@@ddandymann Heres the thing that will absolutely destroy your point, the flood needs hosts, needs technology to thrive and become intelligent, and even then, if the race it is eating up doesnt have space flight capabilities, it will be stuck forever on that planet, unable to advance beyond that point, but the tyranids thrive on their own, their fleets were not organic copies or possessed ships, they were gigantic organic masses that had developed FTL drives by themselves, by mere instinct! they don't work off of what the enemy has, but rather how they use them, if the enemy has rifles and only goes melee with them, the tyranids will only create melee types, if they have artillery and ship bombardment, they will develop long range organic weapons, in a stand off, the tyranids will most likely win, but those two races are still crazy scary and strong
@@MMD-mi5vx Your argument relies on our ignorance of the nids origin. It is true that the flood in their most basic state are weak, yet for all we know the nids in their most basic state could be even weaker. In the 40k universe it is understood that the nids had already consumed multiple galaxies, in Halo at the height of their power the flood hadn't even finished one. My argument is essentially that the flood increase in power and intelligence far more rapidly than the Tyranids. They went from a few spores to a galaxy wide threat in a few months in two games, and would continue to gain power exponentially. I have no doubt that if both species were at the same stage in development the nids would win, but overall the flood is more dangerous.
@@ddandymann ... the nids ate multiple galaxies, at the highest point of their power they can orbitally bombard planets with live ammunition, since we dont know their lowest im using their most basic form that can only eat and attack
I wonder if a Nova Bomb bombardment would kill a Brethren Moon
CaptainSpork7 if a rock doesn’t work get a bigger rock
Just a load of warp missiles to send them to the warp
Yes, a NOVA Bomb can
Halo nova bomb?
If so that thing literally destroys entire planets like the deathstar does
Bros just the mushroom cloud would be bigger then the brethren moon
Genestealer Cults are terrifying as a concept, it's surprising we've never seen a horror movie with this theme before.
No zerg infestation? :(
Zerg are just nid lite
its because everyone knows the zerg broods would wipe them all
Zerg are actually based off of the 'nids. So if you wanted to you could just say they are almost the same faction.
@@ianfitzpatrick4917 The Zerg struggle to take over just one small sector in the galaxy, I doubt that the flood or the Tyranids, who have conquered entire galaxies, would be threatened much by the Zerg. Also, like some of the others have said, the Zerg are based off the Tyranids, and are essentially just a watered down version of what the Tyranids are.
That’s cause they encountered the Protoss and terrans. Not to mention xel’naga and the primal zergs
Tyranids and necromorphs arent parasites :/
Shouldve called it best swarm factions
thats probably the best way to phrase it. though that raises the question... where is THE swarm(zerg)? or the Reapers for that matter?
Xenomorphs would have more parasitic like behaviour than Tyranids indeed.
The 'nids aren't really a parasite, I agree. But the Necromorphs are absolutely a parasite. The fact that they require a CIVILIZATION as a host organism has no bearing on their status as a parasite.
@@lorzon No theyre not. A parasite is an external creature that lives off of other creatures. Necromorphs are the way they are because the marker signal makes every cell in a body mutate. There is no external creature involved.
You can liken them to zombies, except instead of a virus its a marker signal.
@@kfusion6906 Though the individual necromorphs are not a parasite indeed, the entire necromorph outbreak is a parasite to the civilization in the sense that they cannot live without it, though indeed it is not a direct biological parasite.
Necromorphs are definitely the most terrifying
"The flood can be stop by a single person"
The person: have multyple plot armor
I personaly would have put the Faro plague in first place because of several reasons.
Fist of all in this ranking there was the limitation of the plagues like the Faro robots are only at earth but if we would imagine that all plagues have the same ways of getting to other planets through a ship for example then the Faro robots would be "deadlier" I shall say.
Secound the Faro robots are as Eck said deadly from the beginning but stayed on that level. I have to throw something in addition yes the Faro plauge stayed at that level, but and from now on it will spoiler parts of the storyline in Horizon Zero Dawn, Hades the "Brain" of the plauge wanted to merge itself with the Gaia system if Aloy wouldn´t stoped Hades then Hades would get access to the diffrent Gaia subsystems one of that subsystems is for designing new robots and with access to that subsystem the Faro plauge will get to 100% deadlier and could probably reach a space travel state where it can reach diffrent planets.
Third of all all the other plauges would have no chance against the Faro plague because of its biomass converting ability as Eck said the Faro plauge can convert every biological object into fuel so that means it can convert even the biggest lifeform for example the other plagues into fuel.
I dont know what timeframe Eck used for this video but I think he used the time before all of what we can see in the game happened. If he would have used the time after the game and with the thought that Aloy wasn´t able to defeat Hades then I would say that the FARO plague is the first place but I think he used the time before Aloy and in this case I would agree with him that the Faro plauge is in last place.
While I am slightly biased towards Horizon, I do feel like the Faro Plague stands a good chance for at least a #3 spot considering that all they need is biomass in order to reproduce at high rates. Additionally, although we don’t know the full capabilities of the Horus Class (the massive long tentacle one) since the only interaction with it thus far was a deathbringer being deployed from it. I also feel that if the flood (or any other species) brought in technologies, or perhaps even AI, I can see the Faro plague potentially making attempts to take over that technology in some way or another, in a similar way to how corrupters instantly turn for example friendly machines instantly hostile and stronger (even more so if you account for daemonation) as well as the machines, if taking over the modern horizon workers (snapmaws, sabertooths, etc.) they have some pretty hard hitters like the rock breaker which can be hard to hit, or the thunder jaw which although containing that center weakness in them, have lots of firepower, even things such as watchers and scrappers can be somewhat useful as a grunt type. Additionally if an intelligence such as the flood attempted to replicate the machines and use machines against machines, then the machines can definitely corrupt those. But hey that’s just my thoughts, let me know what you guys think and if I am missing something (kindly please).
The flood wouldn't survive, all the flood would honestly just end up being food
Tryanids, I know flood can repair ships, but I don't think they can make them by themsleves
Eventually with enough knowledge and intelligence they can produce ships since why not? They harness the knowledge and intelligence of those it effects, including ship builders. Eventually with the power of Keyminds they can even teleport.
@@scottjones5085 your right i am dumb, inefficiently wasting my time over which fictional parasite is hypothetically better than another, so if you'll excuse me ill go back to my studies of real and functional aircraft. (i'm a college student majoring in AE, and minioring in ME) And a big thank you to @Shane Khiu for being polite and civil in a UA-cam comment section. its such a rarity these days. But you do make a valid point, I was not aware of the teleportation of the flood, mostly as my take of the flood from from the halo games was this: Flood = Very Bad, must kill.
@@emeryhenry1849 I know Scott was a d-bag, but heed my warning: don't gloat about your major/minor until the degree is completed. Those are excellent fields, and you probably are smart, but anyone can study those things and drop them just as easily. Actual completed accomplishments are something worth bragging about, not half completed tasks. In my opinion, that is one of the many great filters of men. People who brag about accomplishments compared to people who brag about half completed failures that they don't realize are failures.
Flood can absorb entire planets worth of production cababilites and the minds to go with them. They _could_ develop their own tech, and in fact when they reach the Keymind stage they kind of do by reclaiming their precursor tech, but it's usually easier for their combat forms to just pick up that assault rifle or plasma pistol and use that than develop an albeit more powerful alternative.
Emery Henry UA-cam is a lawless wasteland my guy
4:02 the flood is the grave of all. It knows no bound, it remembers and forgets none
Something to remember about the Flood: It is not a species, per say. It is a type of CELL. More importantly, if we take everything we know about the Flood into account, it's basically the PERFECT cell. After all, the first Flood outbreak was caused by the injection of Flood cells into dog-like animals.
Presumably, this means that if the Tyranids attempted to consume Flood biomass, they'd just end up infected themselves. And thanks to the nature of the Flood, it doesn't matter that the Tyranids have an effectively infinite army, even without the ability to turn biomass into more soldiers. Every soldier they send at the Flood is more biomass for the Flood, and therefore more soldiers fighting the Tyranids. The Flood would literally use the weapons of their enemy against them, and chances are it would work.
This means that Flood vs Tyranids is less a question of 'who would win' and more a question of 'can the Tyranids harm the flood faster than the Flood can turn their soldiers', and assuming the Flood even got ONE planet's worth of biomass before the big battle, the answer is probably no.
to think we forgot the greatest of them all: the Thing(s)
The Thing is very similar to the Flood. It the Thing were unleashed in an inhabited area, the results would be the same as the Flood.
@@joshglover2370 it would be more violent because any cell is capable of assimilating and dooming any living organism, where the flood still relies on it's body and isn't infecting as much
Metroids and x parasite>>>
@@aaronrodriguez1410 yeah X parasite does the same thing as The Thing but in another manner
@@joshglover2370 nah its like a genestealer on meth
Tbh as a 40k fan I feel a bit cheated versing the halo verse. It’s like if your favourite character that you’ve been following forever and seen through countless hard times and seen grow stronger and stronger.... then he gets paired against some super dude that’s strong because if he wasn’t strong he wouldn’t make sense... then your character gets one hit because the stats say the super dude is just stronger.
40k universe narrative beats your petty flood! >=)
> It’s like if your favourite character that you’ve been following forever and seen through countless hard times
I mean, taking #1 with flying colors every time doesn't seem like "hard times" to me but...
Faro Swarm: I will infest your technology!
Adeptus Mechanicus: _scared and angry binary beeping_
Necromorphs: Hey that's a lot of dead people you got, can I have it?
Adeptus Custodes: Don't let them reach the Emperor!
Flood: Yeah uh we'll take your crusades over from here, and your bodies.
Salamanders: Smells like Promethium time.
Tyranids: . . . Hi.
The entirety of the WH40K universe, even those who know no fear: *_screaming_*
Let's teleport a flood spore a few faro nanbots and a necromorph onto random planets each one different. I don't get how each of them would get of planet I think they would all die.
@@idkusernameeggatron4652 The Flood making one Gravemind and *boom* the end of the galaxy, the Gravemind can get all the knowledge of the Graveminds that came before
@@oryxthechadking555 the only problem is… in the 40K universe, if the person was powerful enough, they could quite literally just remove the gravemind from existence with their mind. And since the flood doesn’t have any warp capabilities, there is no defence for that.
@@bestdogshadow383 Don't you know, some of the Primordials are the Flood and the Primordials are technically Gods and the Flood once showed that they have the ability to warp reality
@@oryxthechadking555 I am a halo lore fanatic and yes I do know.
Baneblade(WH40k) vs AT-AT(x5)
Alexa play Panzerlied
F E A R T H E M I G T H O F T H E B A N E B L A D E
You're gonna need 10
@@SpectrumWarrior1 at least 10 mabye 20
Baneblade or 5 AT-ATs vs a Killzone MAWLR
A wise tank commander of a baneblade once said "Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword"
Okay, for the record. The Faro Plague wasn't done enough justice I think. The Faro Plague is immediately the best plague in terms of outbreak. The flood can be stopped early on, necromorphs depend on a civilization developing so the civilization could possibly discover the dangers of the markers and destroy them, and Tyranids are only as powerful as they are because they've had so much time to grow and infect, we don't know how good they are at the moment of their creation.. The Faro Plague, the minute it happened, doomed an entire planet to extinction. Humanity didn't have a chance to defeat the plague thus Project Zero Dawn happened which hid the seeds of life to repopulate the earth after the Faro Plague had ended. Plus, since the Faro Plague FEEDS on biomass, it would be very interesting to see them in a versus against the other plagues in this video since the Faro plague would see the other plagues as nothing more than food and hunt them to their extinction.
Also, the the only info we have of the Faro Plague is from the Plague's birth time period, we never got the chance to see the swarm adapt and progress over the same amount of time as the other plagues. The swarm is an intelligent AI, it can adapt. It did adapt against humanity in zero dawn in its tactics. So it is capable of adaptation and high intelligence, it just never got the time to get to a grand scale.
As they said in some of the logs, All life on Earth would die in about 18 months it was predicted and towards they end they stated how Europe had been pushed back to the west, Asia was completely gone, the plague had gone from Africa, through Antarctica to South America and by the end of it they used a pincer maneuver on North America from 3 different sides so they certainly do learn.
@@TheFilthyCringer Now just imagine if they got their hands on interplanetary travel and found a biomass source out among the stars somewhere...
'Nids also feed on biomass. And use it. And would be immune to Faro Plague after being subjected to it only briefly. Faro Plague is just a fancy silver bullet. 'Nids don't care. Nids are immune to psychic effects of a Marker. Nids are immune to the Flood again after only being subjected to it once (also as soon as 'Nids find the connection to a Flood Gravemind...'Nids would overtake the Gravemind immediately.) It's just not...it's just not fair to bring the Tyranids into this debate. They aren't something anyone can deal with. Zergs would have been more of a fair comparison.
@@Sethir I think you are exaggerating how effective the Tyranid's adaptation is. I mean, it's certainly a big thing, but they can't just make themselves completely immune to a threat like that. If it was that simple they would have evolved to be immune to bolter shells, chainswords and lasbolts a long time ago. I highly doubt they could make themselves immune to the Flood, it doesn't necessarily have to infect them like a disease, it just has to kill them and then puppeteer the bodies. They also can't make themselves immune to the Faro plague, it 's not an actual plague, it's just robots that kill things and then break them down. Unless the Tyranids can make themselves immune to death, which they cannot, the Faro plague would still work against them. The Faro Plague would still lose, mind you, the Tyranids still have a massive advantage in numerical strength since they own at least one other galaxy whereas the Faro plague just has the one planet, but still.
I'm also not so sure that the Tyranids would overtake the Gravemind, and you have no evidence or reason to believe that. The Gravemind is built of the collected intelligence of the precursors, who essentially created entire galaxies and existed for who knows how many eons, hardly a trivial power. I'm not saying that the Gravemind would defeat the Tyranid hive mind in some kind of direct clash of wills, I'm just saying that it's hardly a pushover, and we have no evidence to suggest that either the Gravemind or the Tyranid hive mind would win. Actually also, since when do the Tyranids have mind-control/infection that would allow them to "overtake" the gravemind? Outside of some minor genestealer shenanigans, the Tyranids have never really been able to subvert peoples minds in that manner, unless there's some new or obscure piece of lore I haven't seen yet.
Mind you, I do think the Tyranids would probably win here, but only because they have a massive headstart since they are already apparently spread across multiple galaxies. If all the swarms were given the same amount of power/spread to begin with, then I don't think the Tyranids would have such an easy time of it.
@@Seraphim7996 Basing it on 40K lore, readily available on various Wikis. Faro Plague only consumes organic matter - please note that this does not include all Carbon, just carbon-based compounds. This is why it eats leaves and such, but you see the remnants of trees still there, and you find fossilized things. Tyranids can just grow diamond-hard exoskeletons. It's what their Hive Ships use as hulls. Diamond hard means diamond. It's just carbon. That's it. It's no longer organic compounds but rather just carbon organized into a matrix that makes it diamond.
As such. If I, a regular human, can think of this; conceptually, the tyranids have thought about it before the birth of our solar system and have already applied ready countermeasures innately to the genetic code of their forerunners. It's not a creature or monster or like a plague - the Tyranids were just a sort of lore solution to the overpowered nature of the 40K universe where everything is overpowered, and the solution was something you couldn't overpower in any way - sort of like a countdown to doomsday. Not something that can be stopped.
The Faro plague was "beaten" by hiding in caves. It's like...not a problem even remotely for a horror the likes of the Tyranid concept.
The Flood lore does indeed put the flood as a Top Tier literary obstacle, but if there's any ideas on how to fight it or stop it already birthed into our minds, and our lore - then it's no where near the horror that is the Tyranids (from their initial discovery Tyran...not their actual name...they are nameless really).
That's why I thought the Zerg would have been a much better opponent to the Flood lore wise.
The Tyranid is stupid lovecraftian BS. It's not something to bring to discussion.
I think this question changes if you assume they're in combat with one another. I think FARO has a leg up because the others rely on fighting a biological enemy, the Necromorphs and Flood aren't going to pose a huge risk to it, but a Tyranid Hive fleet would probably crush it. I agree that Necromorphs are not super dangerous to the others, and I think that if a mature infection discovered the FARO plague, the match would probably go to the FARO, since they're going to be way harder to kill with the weapons the Necromorphs have access to and won't be affected by psychological warfare.
The thing about Tyranids and Flood is that, in their own fiction, both are described as unbelievably adaptable. I think Flood spores would infect Tyranid forms, the Tyranids would adapt to prevent it and fight Flood forms, the Flood would adapt to change their approach, and it would just become a cycle.
I think if you dropped all 4 of these into the same galaxy, you'd end up with the Flood and Tyranids deadlocked, the Necromorphs getting stomped out of existence, and just one planet controlled by the FARO machines that no one else bothered with because it's barren as far as they're concerned.
I personally dont think the FARO would stop at just one planet. I think that when they have "eaten" a planet they would plan and design something to travel to the next. We know from the game that The FARO is very intelligent (with them actually farming the areas and even creating creatures specifically to map an area and send the data to all other units nearby (The tallnecks) and with all the processing power they would develop something to go to the next planet. Just my thoughts.
@@theh.i.v.e9036 I've played a pretty limited amount of the game, so I'm happy to defer to you on this one. I didn't know how capable the FARO were of developing new types. Maybe if presented with a galaxy of biomass, they'd attempt to keep expanding, and I think they'd have a lot of success against the Flood (as did Forerunner Sentinels). I think the Tyranids would pose a greater threat to them, it would probably come down to a war of attrition based on who could re-assimilate the biomass of dead Tyranids faster. Tyranid Leviathans will effectively cannibalize the ground-based invasion force and reproduce it later, but if the FARO are consuming it first, they can increase their numbers while depriving the Tyranids of raw materials.
@@masterofchairs in that case the tyranids would probably win. The only scenario where any other infection would win is if they all started with one "infection form" on a single planet each. Because the tyranids hive fleets in WH40K are literaly scouting forces. The main fleet havent arived yet. And hive fleet leviathan are so powerfull that quote "If every single living human were drafted into the Imperial Guard there would not be enough".end quote. Think about it. (To your other question the FARO started with only the corrupters, deathbringers and the "iron devils")
@@theh.i.v.e9036 As fond as I am of 40k, the scale of all of it is wild, probably have to make changes for any semblance of fairness. Think a multi-system "empire" of FARO could coordinate to resist a Hive Fleet?
@@masterofchairs probably. I think the FARO would win that scenario because now that i think about it the Tyranids have nothing to gain from "killing" a FARO while the FARO would gain combat data. The Tyranids work by consuming their enemies but when your enemy is made of metal there is nothing to gain. The Hive Mind of the Tyranids would probably design new combat forms but not nearly as fast as the FARO. ( this is essentialy a battle of adaptability and the Tyranids is for once at a dissavantage (not sure that is spelled correctly).
Faro plague discovers space:
All life: Why do I hear boss music?
Master Chief, Covenant and the Flood:"FRESH MEAT."
@@oryxthechadking555 Faro plague: FRESH BIOMASS
@@nicholaswade211 Flood:"Hahahaha you fool, you think you can destroy everything but that's my work, your fate is become food and nothing more, what have you done that can make you a threat like me. I was created by gods and i can infect AIs, you really think you can be a good enemy !!!"
@@oryxthechadking555 Faro Plague: We are a swarm with one goal and that is to wipe out every living creature, good luck eating our scrap metal. We can’t even be hacked by the worlds greatest. We adapt and overcome, and if you think you can even get close to us your wrong. Thousands of robots in one motion will wipe out your puny swarms in one sweep with millions of missiles. What wiped out earth was a small fraction of what we could become. Even if you did manage to hack us you think we would let it happen again? We have advanced Melee capabilities too that would let us stomp on your walking corpses.
@@nicholaswade211 The Flood have the Logic plague, they turned one AI made to destroy them onto their side. The faro plague could win, but in the moment that one Gravemind or Primordial exist, the faro plague will be just one army of robots under control of the Flood.
One thing you forgot to mention about the flood is the Logic Plague. It basically infects a A.I. with a type of virus and turns it against their creators. That is what Medicant Bias was infected with which lead to the downfall of the Forerunners and in turn to the Covenant not developing and using A.I.. This also what many people theorized what Cortana is infected with in Halo 5-Infinite which will explain her personality.
actually, HADES in Zero Dawn is proven in game to be immune to even its own decisions, regardless of infection
HADES regularly breaks and rewrites its own programming to continue following its goal
Anybody notice that the symbol used for the Faro Plague is the upsidown Skyrim quest marker?
Haha it is
Cannot unsee this now. Good eye
J Pete Nice. I never considered that before now. Thanks for the laugh!
Ahh fuck another quest to do
There's always this one dude lmao
the flood are essentially omnipotent they were once precursors.
With neural physics they can probably build star roads and obliterate planets if given enough biomass
Nigh omnipotent... I wouldn’t say they were all powerful but they were definitely a galactic threat
@@MusicCreations237 ah yes the crecher that made a galactic spishes delete all sentient life
@asian lee Precursor star roads under the control of the Flood (and a corrupted Forerunner AI), shredded one of the Arks, which themselves are larger than Earth
@asian lee no
I'm kind of curious if a marker could infect another hive mind and if markers signals could control the other factions bio mas turning it into more necromorphs would that work on the flood or tyranid
If the Flood retain the knowledge and skills of those they infest, do they also retain the connection to the Force of the Force sensitive intelligences it absorbs?
The gravemind in halo 2 was able to teleport Master Chief and the Arbiter
@@ysfsim that was using the forerunner technologies of the halo though so hmmm I am hmmm
@@justanotherguywithoutamust2701 Actually it didn't use those technologies. It teleported them with its power.
I think the tyrannids would just straight up adopt the flood and weaponize them for themselves. It would be more like figuring out how the flood work and then using it to help them. The tyrannids could also simply adapt to prevent the flood from taking over and infecting. If they developed a non centralized nervous system, in theory they wouldn’t longer be infected.
If I remember the flood don't strictly need a nervous system just cells. And a life form without cells is a robot
@@connormcgehee9349 the flood also have the ability to infect non organic materials, such as in Halo Wars 2: Awakening DLC, they can also infect vehicles.
Also the flood would definitely be smart enough that they would weaponize the nids
@@connormcgehee9349 also there's no adapting to become immune to the flood, the flood infection is somewhat supernatural, composed infection forms when put into mechanical non-biological bodies would randomly decompose incredibly quickly as if the flood infected the very spirit of their hosts
I agree with you on that the flood will work with enemy's to further its own goals the thing about the flood is just how intelligent they are I assume they would work with the tyrinids until they can get a proper keymind then will start taking over
As much as I love Horizon, Faro Plague is the weakest option of all. I don’t understand at all how people could allow it to spread, because robots do not have air forces, only ground units, and people had airplanes (The Grave-Hoard has an audio recording of this). Why didn’t they just bombard the robots? I didn’t see any air defense equipment on them. This is the question.
Well, it’s a swarm, you can kill as many as you want but there would always be more and planes require airports to resupply, which is inconveniently on the ground.
@@TheDaltonius As I remember, only the Titans could produce other machines. For example, Corruptor couldn't make another Corruptor. If you destroy the Titans, then the entire robot production system will fail, and for aviation, a huge Horus without air defense is an ideal target. Hopefully in the second part, the devs will introduce the flying Chariot drones and fix this issue.
@@shadow_spark8788
I haven’t played in quite a while but if I recall only 3 Horus classes were ever destroyed, so definitely some type we never seen before is used to protect them or maybe it’s just a bunch of Death Bringers shooting until they hit lmao.
They nuked the entire planet, but the robots reproduce and corrupt other machines faster than they could destroy. It was also said that most armed forces on earth were automated, so when the faro glitch happened humanity was at great disadvantage.
@@lucashonorato_ It makes sense, but I still can't figure out why humans were able to build Zero Dawn complexes but couldn't make enough manned aircraft. I think this can be discussed for a very long time, but we can get the exact answer only in the game, and I hope that we will get it in the sequel.
While I appreciate the attention you gave the faro swarm, I think you should have taken a swarm of more adequate scale, like the Zerg from SC instead.
The Faro swarm is limited by the restraints of it's time and technological status, no space travel technology, no other known planets with life,...
They are imo one of the most terrifying on a planet scale but they never had a chance to go to space and they never seemed to evolve beyond their original models.