Why Crossoverless Single Driver Designs Offer Better Sound (Quality vs Quantity in High End Part 3)
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- Опубліковано 18 чер 2024
- The final video in a 3-part series where we define why quality matters in Audio reproduction. Most High End consumers are being presented with speakers employing multiple drivers and complex crossover designs. It goes to show how far are we deviating from producing optimal sound in favor of cost-cutting, driver array optics. High Performance Audio is different from mass-consumed products and the design approach must reflect a pursuit of authentic sound and highest form of listening pleasure. At SW1X Audio Design, we went back into the yester century and adopted the purist ideas of acoustically loaded, crossoverless single full range driver Horn and Monitor Loudspeaker designs.
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I like what you're doing here, keep going!
Thanks, you too!
single driver simply can not effectively cover the full audio range. You can't change physics
There are always Trade offs
@@DaleCrommie There doesn't have to be trade offs in any assault on the state of the art. I definitely won't argue preferences but there are reasons why most speaker designers don't use a single driver. There certainly isn't any reason to avoid crossovers anymore. Well designed digital crossovers allow for the amps to deliver full power to the drivers and for the drivers to be perfectly matched, time aligned and phase aligned. And allows the drivers to operate exclusively in their optimum frequency range. Multiple driver operating within their lowest distortion frequencies will be far far more coherent than a single driver operating beyond it's lowest distortion frequency range
Are you talking from experience? I would guess not. You can't change physics but you can play tricks on it. Smaller FR drivers do need clever cabinets for good bass, but I have extensive experience with 10 and 12 inch drivers that produce plentiful bass in simple bass reflex floorstanding boxes. As concerns treble it's not the entire cone area that's required to move at high frequencies. The centre of the driver - with or without whizzer cone - connects directly to the voice coil but is not rigidly attached to the rest of the diaphragm. The calculated flexibility that's built in acts as a mechanical low-pass filter.
@@gaborozorai3714 Experience? Yeah, I've listened to enough single driver speakers to know they can't do decent bass and beam to the point of unusably in the high frequencies and audibly distort in the mid range. If you like that so be it. But you are pitching them as something they are not. There are no tricks that are going to get you true 20hz-20khz extension with full dynamics, low distortion and controlled radiation patterns out of one driver.
The issue of the poor low frequencies isn't just about the driver but its amplification. By the way, not all 2- or 3-way loudspeakers can reproduce the range below 40 or 50 Hz as well
Also, it depends on the source (digital source with DA conversion isn't as capable in that)
Nevertheless, you're right about HF extension. It's definitely impossible to make it nearly flat up to 20kHz. However, those frequencies can still be reproduced (in FR driver with a powerful magnet), but with a lower efficiency, which isn't critical either
Best is two or 3 drivers and simple crossover like a cap to protect the twitter
simple X-over is a good starting point. the best X-over is no X-over whether active or passive. This is the main reason as why people prefer headphones over speakers
There are no absolute truths in complex systems. Calling crossovers evil is a belief akin to a religion.
So you think capacitors, resistors or chokes reproduce audio signals without any loss?
@@antonsyd7077 Ah there is the Spanish inquisition
They will work very well with some types of music where phase coherence is most important to the buyer and lack verve with other types of demanding music, especially at higher levels where they often break up. i.e. Simple speakers for simple music.
Agree that; been using 12” FRD in large bass reflex cabs c1955 for a year now wont go back!
Good Lord was this kid just found under a rock a week ago. He thinks he’s found Nirvana. Well I’ve got news for him. There are just so many things that are factually wrong in his statements. I don’t know where to begin. Praying at the holy Grail of minimalism is no different than any other Grail try listening to an enormous symphonic work on a single driver speaker with 3 W of power.
All of us have our own preferences. So, your statement about audio minimalism is kinda rude. It's like saying that whisky is better than wine
@@antonsyd7077 wait a minute now, he may prefer single drivers but when he goes off about how its the only design that works basically he is waaay off the mark! did you listen to him bashing other designs... as if the greatest audio engineers in the world are using a wrong headed approach to speaker designs? he has a right to prefer what he likes but HE is the one claiming the other 'whiskeys' out there suck. he is a young guy way out over his skis on this topic. i like single driver set ups but its hardly the only way to accurately reproduce music. like arguing only SET tube amps are able to correctly/perfectly amplify a signal
@@veroman007 Agree
@@veroman007 If he thinks the drivers he's using don't have nonlinearities, he's dreaming. Every cone driver has resonances, with the vast majority showing up in the audible spectrum. And to believe a driver over 100mm won't have directivity issues is just ignorance.
I was building SET tube amps (and speakers) when he was in grade school. They are fun to build and can sound nice, but there are better sounding amps for a lot less money. FWIW, I like old film cameras too, but use modern mirrorless cameras in my line of work.
Most of the comments from these people posting apparently own comparatively low performance systems and have very myopic and stunted views and apparently very limited knowledge on the subject matter.
i am glad i spent more time learning about audio before spending my money on products.
now that i know the sound that i have always sought after comes from nos digital filterless DACs, low powered valve amplifiers with quality components, and high sensitivity speakers.. i can finally.. well.. start saving my money lol to eventually buy one of your systems.
there is a north american distributor about 4 hours from where i live. i hope to one day schedule a listening session to demo the sw1x products he has. hopefully by the time i go, he has more than just the DAC IlI. i think he now has the pre amp IlI as well. i would love to hear the CDT V, but at the very least the IlI, one of your amps and the alnico speakers.
Thank you for showing your interest. Where about are you located? Contact us and we can help you find the right dealer sw1xad.co.uk/contact-us/
What is MSRP for your speaker, thanks
@@babydove
We offer a range of speakers : sw1xad.co.uk/product_cat/loudspeakers/
Please contact sales here sw1xad.co.uk/contact-us/
Big thanks for supporting the minimalistic approach
For those who wants to know more truth about audio or find some great ideas for old-school DIY audio stuff, I sincerely recommend this channel as well (trust me, there are tons of valuable information)
www.youtube.com/@realworldaudio
Multi-amplification/low level, active, crossovers, can be vastly superior to single driver systems or high level, passive crossover, multi driver system.
Active is best imo. Separate crossover, amps etc
the best X-over is no X-over whether active or passive. This is the main reason as why people prefer headphones over speakers
Audiophile Junkie has said that Source point Single speakers are awful..... 'Those are actually the worst sounding because they almost always have rolled off top end... Limited bass.. And no ability to play loud without distortion.'
Cube Audio Nenuphar is the best speaker I have heard. I drive them with single ended monoblocks of 6-8 W. Nothing compares.
Shit. What now? How do I get rid of all capacitors and inductors and resistors from CD player, amplifier, speakers, streamer,....? I better just go and listen to rock concerts live! But wait...there are capacitors and resistors in electric guitars, and they need amplifier and speaker to work. I'm screwed.
Everything is about implementation to try and mitigate the negative aspects of the application. A well designed full range unit has advantages, but inevitably some disadvantages too. Which approach is "best" depends somewhat on the objectives and circumstances. Thunderous bass and "punch", or "slam" won't be so well served subjeively by a small full range unit,even with transmission line tuning for the low end.A multi way design utilising disparate drivers of differing polar distribution, all in differing locations and sonic flavours won't be able to match the coherency. One can work around certain aspects ,but will always have some discontinuity from deliberately separating out the signal (which is not the case with a microphone when capturing the signal) and then trying to stitch it all back together again in a coherent fashion.
unless there is a complementary acoustic loading that harmonises the "weaknesses" of a single full range driver
Sure there are numerous configurations that could be deployed in order to attainba desired objective with respect to the delivered subjective performance. Every route in existence for loudspeaker design has pros and cobs though. Reducing the impact of the drawbacks for a given application is key irrespective of the chosen path. I personally adhere to full range designs or wide band drivers utilising first order acoustic crossover slopes, but there will be relative drawbacks with respect to frequency extremes in the full range option,coupled to somewhat limited SPL levels when compared with many of the multiway designs.As a "purist" I'm with you,but it's unrealistic to claim that any application is without compromise. It's the reality of engineering.
in acoustics everything is a compromise- it is just a question to what extent the compromise is
@@sw1xaudiodesign And which ones the designer and/or user is most happy to accept.
Yes ✨️👍
forget about it.............its not a power issue, its a performance issue.......trying to use a 6" cone to produce 5-20khz range is just silly.
Single driver shortcomings........as follows, cone break-up, lack of speed , high distrotion, lack of extension, shrill and harsh high freuquency, uneven dispersion patern, intermodulation distortion from cone movement modulating the highs and many other issues too complex to get into here.
You're obviously right about frequency range. Other than that, you provided no evidence to prove other statements
@@antonsyd7077
He doesn't need to provide evidence. The research, measurements, and listening confirmation have already been long documented and provide all the evidence that is necessary for the other aspects he noted when a loudspeaker system is limited to using a single driver.
The issues, compromises, and limitations are evident in literally thousands of individual drivers specs and measurements that are provided by the manufacturers of the drivers themselves or independent 3rd party testing.
You can't magically eliminate all of the inherent physics and electro-mechanical properties that are involved.
The only segment of audio reproduction where single-driver systems can provide the least potential limitations and/or compromises of full-range, distortion-free reproduction is with single driver headphones, where the SPL, Xmax, IMD, directivity, and other issues are FAR less of an problem due to the physical size of the drive unit and the extreme close proximity of the drive unit to your ears.
This has to be one of the most ignorant videos on UA-cam. The idea of "full range" single drivers is simply wishful thinking. No chance if distortion is a theme. Multiple drivers in unison is possible and ignoring this FACT shows that you can not be taken seriously. If you are incapable of crossing over speaker drivers, you have to make up fake arguments. Single drivers fail at dynamics and distortion every time. Whizzer cones are TERRIBLE.