Monthly Hydrogen is more than your car payment.
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- Опубліковано 23 лис 2023
- This fill up was almost $200! We also had to travel to a new station to get filled up today.
Hydrogen map:
h2fcp.org/stationmap
#Toyotamirai #hydrogen
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the most abundant resource in the universe is more expensive than gasoline. amazing
This was my first thought when this video started, why is this even a thing but gasoline or electric at that price
Because you'll never find hydrogen by itself. Its always bound to something else.
@@Jedi2155 Right on Jedi. Todays hydrogen comes from natural gas, which releases slightly more CO2 than if you burned it outright.
It tends to float away.
My first thought was why don’t you just make your own
One has to really love hydrogen to take this kind of abuse.
I feel the exact same way about about full battery electric BEV vehicles. I have a PHEV and when I can charge of the easily it always is but if it's ever a hassle forget it I'll just go to the gas station be done 300 something miles of range and 2 minutes stations everywhere I fall and point. If I even went out of gas on the freeway in the middle of the mountains of the country at 3:00 a.m. I can walk over to a farmer's house and borrow a gas can I'm sure he's got laying around the barn anything more inconvenient than that is abuse
@@ondago2 Um…. Nobody with a PhD in anything should have the kind of troubles you just said with EVs. People with GEDs are doing just fine with EVs.
@@ultrastoat3298 Voice dictation. It was supposed to be PHEV, not PhD. I do have advanced degrees but definitely wasn't tryign to say that there!
@@ondago2 haha. 😂. Yah for a second there I was like what is this guy talking about.
@@ondago2 As BEV takes over, and it will, gas stations will be as rare and expensive as this hydrogen station.
Your ICE portion of the car will be useless.
OMG! 😮 180 big ones for 340 miles?!? That’s crae crae!
only refuling stations in 340 mile radius. so just enough...
In Germany you get it on a high pressure station for around 14 Euros per kilogram, but the government subsidizes.
Thats about what it cost in Denmark with a big block powered Cadillac and a heavy foot
Yep and I thought EVs were bad.
My 2014 Expedition EL has a better $/mile cost.
I can drive my Prius for 3000 miles on $180. That’s a daylight robbery !!!
Yep, I was calculating it out and with my current winter peak electric rate at home I can go about 4,300 miles in my Model Y (assuming 3.5 miles per kWh) for $180 of electricity. Hydrogen prices are insanity.
I can drive my 1996 outback for easily 1200 miles on 180 bucks!!
@@Alniemimy 4 runner cant even get 220 miles and I pay $60 😂
Better sell it off before the battery goes bust!
I can go for like 900 miles in my 335i 😭😭
The purchase of the Mirai is the biggest punch in the nuts, stomach and face ever.
I doubt anybody would be stupid enough to purchase hydrogen vehicles, since they have little or no resale value with hydrogen at >$30 / kg. and no fuel vouchers.
@@cyclopsvision6370 I bought it when Hydrogen was $12/kg, it was the height of new car shortage, and Used Cars were more expensive than new cars.
@@cyclopsvision6370i doubt anyone would be stupid enough to comment what you just commented after watching this video
@@cyclopsvision6370 Toyota have incentive now. $15k or 6 years. Hydrogen vehicle is still very new. Guess who getting punch in the guts now
@crazywildman $15k at $180 per fill up only get you 83 fills up 😂
I'll stick with my gas powered Crosstrek and get the same range per tank if not more and I'll be able to fill up nearly 3x as much as hydrogen with $15k all while being able to travel the entire country and not just whats within a fill up stations range 😂😂
After watching this I will never complain about an Electrify America station being down again 😅
Yep. I feel the same.
AMEN😂
😂😂 this is the "better" alternative oil companies recommend tho
Yep, and even when EA is down, there's usually other charging stations to choose from. You also have plenty of Level 2 stations, and worst case 120V (Level 1) AC charging.
@@TheSeanUhTron Fact’s
Outrageously expensive and impractical.
no shit, this is what elon has been saying but nooooooo hes trying to sell ev's so hes biased
Early adopters do this kind of thing all the time. They take a financial kick to the nuts for fun and to help advance the boundaries of what's technologically normal. We regular people owe a lot to them.
@@polarvortex3294except that these early adopters have been “taking the financial kick to the nuts” for the past 10 years now, and hydrogen cars have made almost zero progress. Meanwhile EVs in that same time span have made leaps and bounds forward. It should be clear by now that hydrogen has no place in mainstream passenger vehicles for the foreseeable future, and the automakers who are still trying to peddle hydrogen cars are just doing it to divert attention away from from battery EVs.
@@TylerHartheland how is Elon doing anything different?
So it costs over 3x what it costs me for 16gal of gasoline.. 😂😂😂😂😂 and it has less range than my car! 😂😂😂😂😂
Yeah but...but...but... the future....emissions...but...global warming, I mean, climate change...I mean...
🤣😂🤣
Hydrogen has always been a scam
Yes it’s expensive but when vehicle was purchased Toyota gives you 15k in fuel credit
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I used to work there as a guard, and I said if a zombie outbreak happens that would be the building it came from
What is that place?
@@scottbreaker256 air quality district off by the 60 and grand I believe
Why? Please expand 😮😮😮😮
@@MrAboutLife well, they do have a lab, and the inside reminds me of resident evil movie with all the cubicles
This is such a pain, I guess hydrogen gives you patience of a monk, at least🤣🤣
it gave you gas pain.
An arm, leg and a kidney fuel that thing up. Damn taking all your money without even a kiss and a hug.
Gotta kiss me before you screw me LOL Terrible 💩💩
Pimped out by the liberal green boogie man.
@@jamesofsandiego politics have nothing to do with it
@@StevenScarboroughIt has everything to do with it, the federal government creates the cafe standards for mileage and emissions, if a manufacturer wants to make big gas guzzling suvs for example they need to offset that with some other types of vehicles, namely rechargeable or in this case hydrogen, you see how it works and it's the Democrat party who are beholding to the big environmental wacko groups who donate heavily to the Democrat coffers, they say jump and the Democrats say how high, this forces manufacturers to produce vehicles nobody or few people want, don't be ignorant about the powers that be.
LOL
That’s insane. My 6.2L V8 Gen 1 Raptor costs $120 to fill up with premium and can go ~500 miles per tank.
Yeah right
it is prob better for the environment too lol
The difference is your truck is actually fun to drive too, why in the world would you want that absurd car 😂
@@PNW_Sportbike_Life15.6 MPG it works out to, they can easily get 24mpg of you big toe the trottle.
Raptors are junk. Dated interior , high price for so so performance . Built in design flaws they fix with new model refresh. Lol you just haven't realized it yet.
Thank you for this. Ill stick to my Gas car. Ill never complain about paying $80.00 per 91 octane full tank again. 😁🙏
At Biden prices, for me Trump prices were 40% lower...BEFORE COVID.
348 miles is about what I get on a full tank in my 2009 Toyota. Who knew innovation required this many steps backwards.
I would just install a home Hydrogen charging station. I’m sure your neighbors and City Code would be delighted and supportive.
Well, if not them then at least your electricity provider would be supportive. 💰
Doesn't it cost over 100k to install one?
@@jpizel1070closer to a Million
Extract hydrogen from the water by urself. Isn’t hard process 😒
😂
FYI, theres an expiration date for the Mirai hydrogen storage tank. Thats going to cost at least $10-15k if you replace it.
WHAT !!!????
After my experience with the mirai. I don't care about green peace and fuel efficiency benefits anymore. I'm going to look for a s580 coupe now .
How much to replace a fvcking EV BATTERY? FYI. FYI
@@michaelbren3635EV battery idk, but hybrid batteries are easy and cheap DIY replacements.
Also the cost on tire wear is far more than regular vehicles
Here in Germany we have a decent network of H2 fueling stations close to the Autobahn and 1kg costs around 13 Euros. So you could drive from Munich to Flensburg and back without problems. For my needs, i.E. some 25 miles to the office and back with no Autobahn and the next H2 fueling station some 20 miles in the opposite direction, I choose a car I can charge from the wall outlet in my garage :).
Are there any German hydrogen vloggers who share the realities of it like this fine fella does in California? Is it actually great, are there lines, what's the reliability etc.
@@brushlessmotoring There are a few German fcev owners in a Facebook group I frequent. Generally they do not have the lines or downtime like here in California because they do not have the number of vehicles to hit their stations as hard as we do.
Thats no realistic price, its a political one and can change any time to free market and then - Good Night.
As if any American knows how far Munich to flemsburg is.
They have google maps! :D @@maxwellblackwell5045
Here in Russia a lot of people switch their cars to run on natural gas, which at summer may cost around 15 US cents per litre. Hydrogen is used only by buses or some rare haul trucks.
Скоро будет некуда и его заправлять.
fk russia
Does it work in the electric fuel cell the same?
@@crisbowmanNo lol they’re running hydrogen internal combustion
@@JohnMaxGriffin Right, the vehicle in this video is not a combustion engine, but a fuel cell. I theorize it as a possible future to green power. Not cheaper, but the cheapest safe option...
Even for free, you'd have to pay me and I'll still think about it. First time seeing this and I'm happy with BEV.
This is why Toyota gives 15k credit for the fuel, even with that people don't want to own hydrogen cars.
@@Zripas That 15k is added to the vehicle price. Don't think for a second Toyota cares about their customers.
@@ZripasI wonder why those people still took the chance… because free 15k? I still cannot wrap my head around it for all the hassle.
Usually people say that hyperbolically. But in this case, even free isnt worth it.
@@michaeltan9512
With that initial 15k it might be somewhat cheaper to go around, but people usually just sell the car after this 15k runs out, which is quite quickly. And when it comes to hydrogen car lowers, they simply want to be that guy who drives on "water" and can get few brownie points from his friends or something.
To lazy to look up actual numbers in how many people buys Hydrogen car for the second time, but I suspect that number is in single percentage numbers.
The scariest thing is that they are still selling Hydrogen Vehicles. They are more polluting and more expensive than an ICE car by far. I feel bad for for the folks who own them as Hydrogen is doomed to failure 😅 Thanks for pointing out how bad they really are. 😅
There is a Shell hydrogen station on 190th street in Torrance just west of Western Ave that I would pass daily to and from work. In the ten years I made that commute (from 2011 to 2021) I saw a total of TWO cars filling up. I honestly thought it was a museum given that Toyota and Lexus headquarters were across the street.
😂
I used to drive by that station all the time too!! back from 2013 to 2015. I only ever noticed one car filling up every few days. 😂
@@gustavocarrillo6754now its diffrent lots of lines
I believe that station is actually the first public hydrogen station in the US so it’s kind of historic as well 😅
And it's closing soon because Shell is removing Hydrogen services lol. The councilmembers in Torrance said "We hope we can replace that station when it does shutdown" which to mean sounds that it's not a priority to replace. One less fueling station!
Toyota should have made these plug-in hybrids so they're at least usable if you don't live near a hydrogen fueling station.
Let me guess, you know nothing about engineering.
They’ve to put a bigger battery to make it plug in hybrid- Mirai has a battery capacity of 1.2kw fuel cell which can run tops 4-5 miles if charged. That’s where hydrogen is used as fuel to charge the battery to power the motor.
Yeah a triple hybrid would have been awesome
A big battery is a great idea, then you dont need this hydrogenstuff. Oh wait a second, maybe such things already exist.........
@@ingo_8628 right hydrogen technology for light vehicles have been a failure
I heard that Hydrogen was going to be more expensive but I wasn't expecting it to be an arm and a leg expensive......😮
Inflation!!
Wow I thought it would go further. I can get 300 miles in my F150 Lightning and it only cost me $3.00 to fill at home. Thanks for the video it was very interesting.
I can eek out about 200 miles in a car from 1966 with a 20gal tank and it's not a high compression engine so it will run 87 without an issue. I can get damn near 400 miles in a 2004 Suburban and the truck LS engines are also just fine on standard octane gas. Hydrogen is absurdly expensive.
Yes, hydrogen has become stupid expensive in just 1 year. However, I bought a 2021 Mirai with 62,000 miles, certified, and looks showroom new for $16,500. With the offset of the $15,000 fuel card, if hydrogen doesn't get any better in cost, I'll sell the car for $1500 and get out. Great car.
It's only a $15k offset if you use it all before you let go of the car lol
It took one year you say for it to become expensive so I'd get rid of it as soon as possible and take the loss. $180 for ~350 miles is just insane in a sedan.
@@TWAAAAACKSthe resale value is even worse, most around me sell for under $10,000 (lowest I saw was $7000). I would almost consider one at that price if there was a station near me, but the nearest one is 40 miles away, so I already lose 80 miles of the 350 miles of range lol.
Why would someone buy a hydrogen car over an EV? The range is about the same. It’s a little quicker to fill up is the only advantage I see.
Hydrogen is never going to be as cheap as electricity. You’re either using electricity to make the hydrogen or it’s coming from a petroleum source. Making hydrogen from electricity is way less efficient than using it directly in an EV. It’s never going to be as safe. Batteries make some impressive bright yellow flames, but hydrogen flames are invisible and hydrogen is extremely explosive. 🧨
I don’t get it.
I'm hoping that hydrogen production improves and lowers the cost. If not, I'll trade and do it again if Toyota is still offering the same deal or sell the car for $1500 and break even.@@TWAAAAACKS
@@JefferyDunham-fi1wyWhy would production improve when the number of vehicles keeps going down? Hydrogen is dead.
Hydrogen fueling would be the equivalent to charging with electricity when you can refuel with Hydrogen in your garage. Traveling to fueling stations just seems so cumbersome vs. charging at home.
What a silly comment.
Or just fuel hybrid at any station
it sucks because for renters (and that's most of us in california who aren't landed gentry) owning an EV is pretty much impossible because you lose the "charge at home" aspect. hydrogen could have been a great way of doing clean fuel for cars but at these prices it's beyond insane to consider
if you have a home. Other than that you gonna be waiting at the charging station.
@@Baebon6259the great you g about Tesla’s is you can kill time watching Netflix. Believe me time passes by fast. I used to charge and come home and wasted 20 miles but now there are 2 super chargers within 1-2 miles.
The seats in those things look incredibly comfortable.
My Tesla costs 13 dollars to charge fully and it runs 340 miles. Great video though, I don’t know anyone who has a hydrogen car so this is fascinating.
Your tesla, outside of the fake battery range albeit still decent, is a piece of crap. Firsthand experience with a model s here, so I'm fairly unbiased
@@ChristianC-gy1ym Well I would gladly take the "piece of crap" and pocket the $600 I would save each month over the hydrogen car which would cover my car payments making the Tesla free (by comparison). As soon as it went out of warrenty I would buy another free one. Until hydrogen price and availability is addressed this makes no sense - why throw your money away?
@@ChristianC-gy1ym I think what you meant to say was that your(Cristian's) Tesla was a piece of crap. Like any mass produced vehicle there will be lemons. I'm a car enthusiast in my 50's, I've owned a lot of cars(currently have a classic mustang, ford pickup, 2 BMW's, a Lincoln SUV, Tesla Model X and Model 3) and my Teslas have been the most reliable cars I've ever owned. Maybe I got the only good Teslas out there, seems unlikely though. Probably as unlikely as you getting the only bad Tesla.
@@jltb5283 OK fine, if I'm being honest I would take a tesla over the mirai lol. But only if I only had those as my options. Otherwise no thank you on tesla. No thanks on hydrogen. The tech is just not there despite what all of you alternative energy advocates are saying.
@@shannonlawhorn1674 Just not a huge fan of Tesla's build quality. I think ICE is still king and not going away anytime. Plug in hybrids seem to be the perfect solution for now. Around town, you potentially never have to tap into your gas tank -- just come home n charge it overnight. For longer trips the car will start burning gas and you never have to worry about range anxiety since there's a gas station everywhere
A black Friday sale on hydrogen, people smashing cars into each other to be first in line, make sure the camera is rolling. ;)
Wake me up in September
GEEEEEZ !! Makes Supercharging look easy
I mean, supercharging is literally the easiest way to fuel ANY vehicle. It may not be the fastest, but by far the easiest. You literally just grab the cable and plug in. No apps, no cards, not even a buttons (Aside from pressing the "Open charge door" button on the handle).
for all the crap Tesla gets and deserves about their QC, their charging network is second to none. The same can't be said about hydrogen.
Excellent overview, thank you for the air supply tip!
At least you have options. In my country, near me there's only one station. To get to the next one I need a full tank to drive there.
Wow! Enlightening video. Even if they gave me this car for free I would not take it.
That's crazy expensive. Filling up your Tesla Model 3 at home would cost less than 20 bucks for that range.
Throw in solar and it's even less. Granted, having a Tesla AND a solar system would be insanely expensive up front.
Thank you for your video, I was not aware of the cost of fuel for this type of vehicle.
Just came from MKBHD's video about how electric charging infrastructure sucks. This makes EV charging look good.
Be it gas, diesel, electric, hydrogen, the cost of the vehicle vs a regular gas car gets the end use one way or the other. It's never been about the environment. It's a shuffling of wealth. There is no reason hydrogen is that expensive, it's the most abundant element on the planet. Great video.
Alas here on Earth, Hydrogen is always mixed up with other elements. Splitting it away from those elements is what makes it expensive.
Hydrogen just isn't cheap to make. Also most abundant in the universe doesn't mean s**t here on Earth. On Earth while Hydrogen is abundant... it is mostly from water. Good luck getting straight up hydrogen. Solar is just there on the other hand.
Most abundant element, yes. But it takes an efficient hydrogen generator 48 kWh of electricity to make just 1 Kg of hydrogen from water. And that doesn't include the cost of resin for de-ionizing the water and maintenance. It's just not practical. People talk about EVs being impractical. This even makes EVs seem like a godsend.
My Honda Accord Hybrid 2021 pump at gas station about $39 full gas tank drive for estimated 545 miles.
I love my honda Accord hybrid is excellent car and my family Toyota Camry hybrid is the best vehicle too . Toyota hybrid also known for king 🤴 of hybrid for so many decades now.
If only hybrids weren’t the most likely cars to spontaneously catch fire of any drive type on the road. They’d be damn near perfect
@@engineeringtheweirdguy2103lol thats a lie since inhave never seen or heard of them catch on fire. Friends and family members all drive either hybrid or EV. I have seen ICE cars catch on fire though
@@samjam6989 EV’s are 20-60 times less likely to catch fire compared to ICE’s. But hybrids are 3 times MORE likely to catch fire compared to ICE’s. The data is there. You can look it up yourself.
@@engineeringtheweirdguy2103 Where? I've never seen nor heard a word about that.
@@Henry_Jr_Watsson according to various insurance companies, and road safety regulators around the world. The hurst estimate I ever saw of was autoinsuranceEZ.
Over here in TN the hydrogen is insanely cheaper and you don't have to deal with any type of identity bs. Pretty wild they gotta go through all that just to fill up a car.
I think the identity BS is anti vandalism. In certain parts of the country electric charging stations are getting torn up and hydrogen infrastructure is a lot more expensive.
Great video. Question: Post H fuel-fill, and the range reading of 348 . . . what calculation is that based on? I assume Toyota is doing an on-board calculation. So is the 348 based on YOUR driving/use pattern; an average of such? Is the 348 based on a CARB calculation? If you know. Did that 348 reading change immediately as you began driving (leaving the Chevron station)? Thanks so much.
For perspective: While completing graduate school at Cornell, I drove a 1967 Ford Custom 500 with the 240 ci inline six cylinder and the 3-speed C-4 automatic, and a FDR of 3:08. It had a 26 gallon tank. I averaged 25mpg. In 1978-1980 the national average price (for "regular") was $0.86. The big Ford would travel over 600 miles for about $21.00. *I could drive to NYC (where family was) and back (to Ithaca) without refueling.* (It had a single ventura carburetor, and no emissions controls).
I feel like i dont know whats going on …lol that was the first time i have ever seen a hydrogen car or how a person fills it up and he says every time i go to station there is a line with a wait ….i didnt even know you could buy a car like that …man i need to get out of the house ….thanks for sharing
They are only available in California.
That just means you don’t live in LA or SF bay area. I see a lot of Mirais and hyundai hydrogen cars around. Seems cool but the infrastructure never happened. I have a BEV and love it.
How many normal gas station did you pass in order to fill up?
Good video! Do you have a hydrogen fuel station at home? Back in 2015, I was gung-ho on hydrogen. I even looked into converting my 2006 Avalanche to hydrogen. I also looked at the Mirai. However, the infrastructure is so horrible. Also, the environmental cost of extracting H2 from whatever it is invariably bound to is crazy. I'm so glad I bought a BEV last year.
I currently drive an old Prius in Colorado that gets 45 MPG at $2.50/gallon, so a Mirai would cost 9x more. Two of my neighbors bought Teslas, which are much more efficient. One of them is powered 100% solar. Hydrogen is interesting, but maybe Toyota needs to rethink its plans.
I saw somewhere that 1Kg = 100Km, for $36 that's really expensive!
What the automotive industry needs is a breakthrough in battery technology. More storage, faster charge time. Then continue building the charging grid the same way as the current petrol system. in fact, we need them both side by side for a few more decades.
When I was living in the SF Bay area I test drove one of these. It was a terrible ride and at the time I did the math on hydrogen (which was a lot cheaper because they had a city fueling station) and there was no way you could drive enough to use the dollars they have as an incentive. Now I understand why because this is insane prices!
And there we have it. Hydrogen is not, and never will be a cheap - answer to everything - Holy Grail fuel.....
With margins of scale sure it would. It'd be far cheaper than gasoline if its infrastructure was as expansive.
you forget something... limited supply. its not infrastructure, its literally how you make Hydrogen.
if you want to expand hydrogen fueled cars like now electric cars are, you need make magnitudes more hydrogen then currently on the market.
to do so you need to build big plants that make hydrogen from sea water. but there is a catch, you need 24/7 giant supply of electricity to do so. thus you cant use solar/wind.
you have two choices fossil fuel burning or Nuclear. the most effective way would be to build a nuclear reactor to directly supply energy to the giant plant.
the point is, the only way Hydrogen is good as fuel if its 100% GREEN Hydrogen, thus the nuclear power plant is the way to go, now to build that on top of a giant hydrogen plant, the investment is ungodly high, thus you need to factor it in, into the price of the Hydrogen's kg..
so it would be more expensive for a long time before the whole thing even brakes even.. so the fuel would be even more expensive not cheaper.
and you need trucks to haul hydrogen, another cost.
on the other hand, if you have a house and solar you plug in the car and its "free" fuel. for most people who drive 30-60 miles/day electric cars are great.
@@IkaikaArnado
@@JackMelqartI'm a noob in this. So according to your explanation, it's easier to cut the chase and use electricity directly produced from power plants to power EVs; why go through another process to produce hydrogen?
Both EVs and hydrogen powered autos were not invented last night, it only matters if they actually become efficient in market scale in reality.
@@IkaikaArnado no, it will not ever scale, unless they can properly do solid storage of hydrogen, it will never be competitive, unless they practically give it away for free, it has been and will always be a nonstarter out the gate.
It’s quite simple, look at the physical space and storage capacity of this hydrogen car, and compare it to a Mod Y, which is a smaller car.
i talk about the cost of GREEN hydrogen, cos only that is worth to use.
and just some numbers..
an ice cars fuel efficiency is 13%,
Hydrogen 27%, battery electric 73%@@MMLL369
Interesting to see. Still driving a diesel tho. Thank you for the video.
Also cost me like 200 to fill up about 40 gallons and go almost 1000 miles on a tank.
Hydrogen can’t beat electric for the simple fact that you can still fuel up at home. That’s one of the biggest draws for me
Wow. It makes driving a 3/4 ton 4x4 crew can diesel pickup seem economical. Plus it can still tow 10 plus tons.
How long does that 180 last you doing regular driving, errands , work commute etc??
Not damn long
7-8$ gets me 340-350 miles in my Tesla Model 3 Long Range
Level 2 charger at home. Our monthly cost on 2 e-golfs, is $46. Car dependency is the fly in the ointment.
If anyone's wondering, in 2024, only two hydrogen cell vehicles are being sold in the US. The Hyundai Nexo and the Toyota Mirai.
Exactly, it never made sense to me. So in order to make H2, you need electricity to split it and then you fill up the vehicle with H2 and then the vehicle uses the Fuel Cell to produce electricity to power the vehicle. It's doing twice the work when the end product is electricity.
Thankyou for showing that hydrogen is clearly not the future.
Hydrogen fuel cell are a mature proven technology. The only thing holding it back is the cost, which is 5x the cost of gasoline or diesel.
@cyclopsvision6370 Look at "Mr. Technically Speaking" over here...dork.
it would be if the government didnt tax the living shit out of it. 80% of that costs is all taxes.
@@cyclopsvision6370the only thing holding it back is thermodynamics.
Wow..... $0.55 per mile fuel costs..... My Tesla is less than $0.10 per mile for electricity....... wild
Using at-home night recharging costing 8 cents per Kw, I look at about 3 cents per mile for my Tesla. After seeing this video, it's easy to understand why hydrogen vehicles aren't doing well.
And in Australia, where rooftop solar is very common electricity is practically free depending on when you charge.
That sounds right for my 40 foot school bus. You just suck it up when you take it on a trip.
@@daviddennis5789 My tesla in TN cost 2.8 cents a mile to charge.
you should buy a 2002 to 2014 jetta or golf TDI manual. fun to drive. 14.5gal of diesel cost me around $60 for 500 to 700miles of highway range depending on the year.
2 miles/dollar? might as well just take a taxi everywhere. Taxi is probably cheaper once you count parking, insurance, maintenance and the cost of the car.
In the entire San Francisco Bay Area, only 15 hydrogen stations and several are usually offline. And this is Silicon Valley, and Tesla's own back yard.
Hydrogen doesn't stand a chance against battery EVs. Game over!
Why would anyone choose this over an EV?
You don't have a big expensive battery that will need replacement (assuming it doesn't catch on fire) and you'll save a lot of money on tires. As a bonus, making hydrogen uses a lot of electricity and generates CO2, and burning hydrogen generates water vapor - both "greenhouse" gases. You can't make this stuff up.
Till Westberg purchased a Hyundai ix35 seven years ago for the reasonable sum of €50,200-roughly $55,000 nowadays. Known as the Hyundai Tuscon in the U.S., the ix35 was offered with hydrogen power in limited numbers, with the gas used to generate electricity for the drivetrain via a fuel cell. Westberg drove the car for years without fault, racking up over 52,000 miles before disaster struck.
Sadly, Westberg's ix35 simply stopped working one day. The SUV began throwing an error message on the screen when powered up, and would no longer drive. Unfortunately for the German resident, repair seems out of the question. Upon approaching Hyundai for a fix, Westberg was presented with a monstrous €103,764.17 ($113,000) repair bill for the fuel cell system. Tragically, the vehicle, purchased on the cusp of 2016, is now well past its standard five-year warranty period.
@@rogerwilcojrthe Mirai is a hydrogen fuel cell hybrid car; it does not emit any CO2. The Mirai does have a drive battery, albeit a small one, just like any hybrid. The fuel cell itself is expected to replaced after 150,000 to 200,000 miles - modern EV batteries should actually outlast a fuel cell.
Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles make no sense to me, at least not for light transport.
@@glennjgroves I was referring to making hydrogen by using a lot of electricity being generated by power plants generating CO2 by burning coal or natural gas.
It's kind of like Tesla using diesel generators at their super charger stations.
@@rogerwilcojr you literally referring to burning hydrogen. (Though you also referred to making hydrogen using electricity. So partly accurate.)
Electricity generation is swapping over to green generation, admittedly over the next 10 to 20 years say. In the long run hydrogen using electricity will be clean. Wasteful and probably a bad idea where electricity can be used directly, but clean.
I wonder where those cars back when I found out about them. Then I looked for public hydrogen fueling stations and the closest one to me was in California. I'm in Texas. So I decided that probably wouldn't work for me and obviously decided against it. Pretty glad that I see your video that is not available here in Texas or wasn't when I was considering the purchase.
Thanks for the video. Pretty expensive for 330 miles. Now I’m discouraged to get one
its about 90 to fill my truck and i get 400 miles. just sharing
My Ford Focus runs about 40 to fill for the same miles, bit more actually.
What was the app you used on your dash to check what fuel stations were online and offline? I just upgraded my 2018 mirai for a 2023 and I couldn’t find that option you clicked on
Push the menu buttton on your dash, o to apps. and push fuel. Boom.
Awesome video. So valuable.
I love my chevy sonic, $51 dollars to fill up and 300 miles plus on a full tank.
The equivalent of $15 a gallon. Why? Buy a VW ID4, charge it at home, safe yourself the hassle. Don’t spend miles on the car looking for a charging station. Paying full price for that distance at a Electrify America would be about $58. Silly to pay 300% the cost for anything
Wow that's a really great argument against the tour of them arrive with you obviously bought pretty much as an experiment as a UA-camr but in reality everything that you just argued I could say the same about ice gasoline or diesel cars every single downside that you list against this Mariah I can list against an electrical car every price Delta like paying three and four and five times as much for electricity at a quote unquote supercharger is the same silliness that we think about paying for an electric car and then acting like you either save the world or save money on fuel and keep it 10 years and see what happens when you have to pay $20,000 to replace a battery see if you saving a few money then hilarious you may be entire argument but you make it for a vehicle to have the exact same downfall
😶🌫️
@@ondago2what are you blabbing about? Replacing battery? Like hydrogen cars will never breakdown 😂
Is there a way to found out why the Air Products station is so much less expensive than True Zero? Is it because Air Products doesn’t use as much green Hydrogen?
My thoughts also.
Air Products net income for 2022 was $2.24 billion and they make their own hydrogen, so they can afford to reduce the price at the dispenser. I would imagine that because Air Products is only 33% green hydrogen would make it cheaper as well.
I could just imagine the delivery charges of the hydrogen would be high, I don't know how long it would take to fill up the underground storage tank would be but it would take far longer than diesel or petrol. I would presume the extra cost of filling up would factor in the cost of the setup and the lack of competition. Thanks so much for sharing your experience.
I was looking into buying a hydro car because they seemed cheaper and really nice. After further research, everyones biggest complaint was not enough hydrogen stations or out of order. CA is not ready for hydrogen.
owned gen1 and gen2 mirai. the fueling is so sad. i hope it gets better. i really like the mirai and h2 just needs more stations
Omg!!! 😂😂😂😂 I spent $140 miles average per month on my EV, and I average 1500-1800 miles per month. I plug my Tesla overnight, when I wake up, I already have 300 miles range. Also no range anxiety because of Tesla's massive infrastructure.
Damn your power is expensive It costs less than 50 a month for me
Thats nuts! Just chekced, its only CAD $14.70 per Kg in Vancouver BC.
That is $14.70 in Tundra Pesos.
I had no idea it was so expensive. Back when I lived in LA I wanted a mirage so bad. Another unfortunate thing about hydrogen is outside of So. Cal good luck finding a station.
Hydrogen is a DOA. It is shocking Toyota continues to pump money into that dead-end technology.
I love the idea of hydrogen fuel cells, I moved to SoCal in January 2022 and bought a certified used 2018 Mirai in February 2022. I love the car and the way it drives and refuels, but TrueZero is totally bending us all over the barrel. When I bought my Mirai, hydrogen was maybe $15 per kilogram… still a lot-ish but I wasn’t too worried as I have the fuel card. Now it’s $36 per kilogram, making a fill up about $200 almost. It’s like driving a 9mpg diesel truck. I’m worried for when my fuel card runs out. At least I got 0% interest
Still a kick in the nads, at the end of the day.
Yeah they really bury the details of what it takes to go from Grey to Blue Hydrogen.]
At least Shell had the sense to pull out after years of trying.
I can't believe there are people still saying hydrogen is the future.
I thought about getting something like this. I love the concept and I really like how the Mirai looks. But man that is a lot of money. I imagine once the infrastructure picks up it'll get cheaper. It's a cool concept
Hydrogen fuel cells are not that good for the environment. The entire process of hydrogen production to running the car's electric motor wastes far too much power if compared to battery electric.
The Mira is around 23 to 25% efficient, which is no better than a typical ICE.
I tend to shy away from using overall efficiency. In my opinion MPG and MPGe are better metrics than "efficiency" as overall efficiency is very difficult to calculate or even define, while the MPG figures roughly translate to energy required for a set distance. 2022 Mirai is tested at around 65 MPGe and 2024 Corolla hatchback is tested at around 38 MPG (both by Car and Driver). I'd still wager to say the Mirai is noticeably more efficient than a typical ICE car.
What makes you keep the car?
Toyota is giving out a 'free' $15,000 fuel card, most Mirai owners are selling their car when the fuel card runs out of money.
However, if you turned that $15,000 into miles travelled, at 54.7 cents per mile thats 27,500 miles. In a gas car, to go the same distance, that would only be a few thousand dollars, in a home charged EV, even less. So the $15,000 might seem generous, but at those prices, it doesn't last long, the promise at the time was that by the time the fuel card runs out, hydrogen would much cheaper, the same price. as gasoline. That is not the case at the moment.
January (2024) might be a different picture, when the Inflation Reduction Act comes in with more subsidies for hydrogen and green hydrogen production. Personally, I'm skeptical, the physics are the physics, it's takes a lot of renewable energy to make truly green hydrogen, and that will always make it more expensive.
Walks away from the H bomb while it fuels up! 🤣🤣🤣
I do see cars filling up in the Santa Monica Cloverfield station quite a bit
Plug in hybrid is the only option that really makes sense tbh. No dependance on charging network, charge at home, no limitations on where you can go, cheaper replacement of small battery after 10 years
Even at the cheaper station for $27/Kilogram that would still be $135 for a fill up that will only get you 350miles... So what's the point of Hydrogen cars exactly? A gas Hybrid Camry will go 600 miles on a tank of only 13.2 gallons. Even if you were paying $6/gallon (which most people aren't) that's only $80 to go 600 miles in a Camry VS $180 to go 350 Miles in a Mirai...? What am i missing? What's the allure of Hydrogen cars if a gasoline/electric Hybrid is much more efficient and economical to operate? Then when you figure in the initial purchase price for the Mirai is like $15k - $20k higher, these numbers look even more insane! Higher initial Price, Higher fuel cost, less fuel station options with a more complicated and often more time consuming refueling process.
You are trying to look at this logically like a normal rational person. Put on your California Silicone Valley hat and it all makes sense. Delusion can be fun albeit expensive but who cares if you are making $500,000 a year doing basicly nothing at Google or Apple?
It's big oils attempt to indirectly sell us natural gas.
As to Mirai, free fuel card & 0% interest.
Another comment:
Those hydrogen stations compress the gas to 10,000 psi to push it into the tank. The hardware needed to make this possible is ridiculously expensive, > $1 million PER pump! And this also makes it so slow, as after pushing in 5 kilograms, the pump needs minutes to be ready for the next customer.
Economies of scale do not work as it is a chicken egg problem. And: producing hydrogen is still mostly done by decomposing methane - a fossil fuel - and not by electrolysis - which would be the good way doing it with renewable energy.
My f150 with big tires averaging 16 miles to a gallon is about 80-90 in southern california 91 octane for similar range i think i get about 380-400 if i bump my mpgs to 17 mpgs by slowing down on the freeway
In the last 30 days I spent $29 on electricity for my Model Y, saving $112 in gasoline charges. Anyone exploring this fossil-fueled boondoggle has got to be so mentally warped by Big oil that they can no longer think straight...
Hydrogen is not fossil fuel though
@@LAbitcoinshow Hydrogen is mostly made by burning methane, with CO2 released into the atmosphere, it's still really a combustion car, it's just that the combustion already happened at an oil refinery, so at least the tailpipe is clean.
While it is possibly to make it from water using electricity, and I think that is how this hydrogen at the True Zero stations is made (not 100% though) but, if you look at the 54kWh of renewable electricity you need per kg of truly green hydrogen, and compare it to the 18kWh an EV needs to go the same distance you then have to question what other CO2 emitting you could have abated with that extra 200% of electricity that got wasted to propel a car via hydrogen vs. battery, you also have to look at the 120 million tons of fossil fuel hydrogen we use, and question whether a car is the best place to deploy the small amount of green hydrogen we do make when an EV is more efficient at using that same renewable electricity.
@@LAbitcoinshow No, but the fossil fuel/oil industry desperately want hydrogen to succeed, then they can once again take over the production, distribution and pricing, to keep those massive profits they've always been accustomed to, rolling in.....
The fun part is it's like 4$-8$ in Texas. Move to Texas yo. They ain't lobbying to increase prices to 30$ like in CA 😅 Though it is the dream to bring it down to 1$range by 2031
My GR86 gets about 270-280mi of mostly city driving with some highway per tank, about 11.5gal of premium fuel, which costs around $50.
Amazes me how the administration loves to talk about how wonderful and great hydrogen and evs are, yet they leave out how expensive it truly is !
Hydrogen is sooo dead.
Honda and GM recently recently started manufacturing new hydrogen fuel cells described as "the first large-scale manufacturing joint venture to build fuel cells".
@@TapesNstuffS Yeah, because they seemingly want to be dead too. Just look at GM. They have no idea what they are doing. Partnering with the Nikola fraud, betting on the outdated Ultium platform, making embarrasingly wrong prediction about their EV market share and production. Old car makers are as agile as the Titanic, the iceberg is straight ahead and the captain is sipping tea on the bridge, thinking about the possible response to the situation. That´s the situation for legacy auto.
@@TapesNstuffS given the lack of volume H2 vehicles sales, despite large incentives, that isn't hard to do.
Besides it is simply good business if drayage ZEV regulations drafted by fossil fuel lobbyists will pay for it.
I hope the car payments are $20 a month or so 🤣
I fear your hopes will not be met.....
Great video. Holy crap $180 to fill it thats ridiculous...Hydrogen for cars in mainstream will never work, expensive to fill, who will pay for and build our the infrastructure? You will never be able to fill at home and the tanks in the car have a short shelf life
The first Diamond Bar station is in the EPA’s employee parking. Small world.
Hydrogen is the most ridiculous fuel for a vehicle. As soon as it goes on a dirt road it’s gonna Hindenburg itself.
I’d still take hydrogen over having to wait 30 minutes to charge my car. If hydrogen ever becomes as ubiquitous as petrol/diesel, it seems to be the superior option that’s also good for the environment.
You’re missing the point where you have to drive up to 1 hour round trip just to get to a hydrogen station. Then pay many times over what an EV would cost for the same range.
@@marcellowithtwols Your missing the point he said if it ever becomes ubiquitous as petrol/diesel. Maybe pick up some reading comprehension or a dictionary.
And that is hydrogen's point now, as far as I can tell, it's not to get you into a zero emission hydrogen car, it's to keep you out of an EV, and keep you burning gasoline, combined with misinformation about EV's it's the perfect one - two punch, and it clearly works, the Oil and Gas industry can continue selling you unpriced pollution products while you ironically cite the environment as your reason continuing to burn oil, unabated, into the atmosphere.
It's genius.
@@brushlessmotoring The importance of both BEVs and hydrogen FCEVs is to get off of oil. It's not only one or the other. For people who have homes where they can charge BEVs are a good solution. For those who live in apartments or rent and cannot install chargers, FCEVs is a good solution. WRT hydrogen, when the Mirai was released in 2015, the hydrogen supply was barely enough and there were many instances of shortages because there was basically only one supplier (Air Products) for almost all stations. In 2022, a 30-ton per day hydrogen plant opened primarily for the mobility market and shortages have subsided. However, green hydrogen is still not available. But it's coming, with Air Products plant in Arizona and Plug Power in California. With the $7B from the infrastructure bill for hydrogen hubs, more will come online, but it can take 3-5 years for a plant to open. These things take time.
You may well find that if you rock up at a hydrogen filling point just after it has been used, it could take 10 minutes for the pressure in the pipework to equalise, before your delivery can go ahead...
Must be supply and demand. Very few hydrogen vehicles on the road, although California does have a few hydrogen buses.
Where I live, we tried Hydrogen fuel cell buses, but they didn't work out like they were supposed to, so they were scrapped in 2014.
Seems electric is the way to go.
The Apple Plus was like $5k when it first came out. My Grandma had a few of them and she specifically bought them with the reasoning that her purchases helped bring it down and democratize information for the masses. Same sort of thing here.
Bought few in hopes to drive future costs down?... If you have so much spare money, ok... Good luck with that.
Does anyone see Toyota being in business in 2030?
They will be the only one in 2030
When Toyota eventually has to admit their automotive hydrogen R&D is a complete write-off, their already precarious debt situation will spiral, I don't think it will be by 2030, but 2035 / 2040 will be a very different automotive landscape.
@@JAMESWUERTELE bwahahahaha! You think anyone wants any part of this experience after watching this video???
Toyota makes non hydrogen cars aswell, they're doing well here stateside and overseas, they're literally everywhere around the world.
keep in mind they own scion/Lexus, so this video doesn't really say anything about Toyota not surviving or being in business by 2030.
@@JAMESWUERTELE Can I have some of what you are smoking?