Is Cersei a Tarygaryen?
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
- Will Cersei become the Mad Queen? Has Cersei Lannister already become the Mad Queen? And is Cersei Lannister the bastard child of Mad King Aerys Targary? Is Cersei a Targaryen?
This video is both an analysis of events from past seasons of HBOs "Game of Thrones" as well as Game of Thrones Season 8 theories and Game of Thrones Season 8 predictions.
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The UA-cam Channel bridge4 dives deep into amazing characters and their character arcs in shows and books including, but not limited to Game of Thrones, A Song of Ice and Fire, The Witcher, The Wheel of Time, His Dark Materials, Altered Carbon, The Legend of Drizzt, The Stormlight Archive, Mistborn, The First Law Trilogy, The Kingkiller Chronicles, The Shannara Chronicles, The Outsider, Watchmen, The Last Kingdom, The Umbrella Academy, Westworld, and Cursed.
It would be ironic if Tyrion is his only true son
for sure =))
I’ve always thought he was. I figured it was a common theory.
He is the o ly true lannister
Sounds exactly like something George would do
yup I think she said "jaime, tyion is tywin's son, not you" or something like that
she's speaking to the similarity in personalities between tyrion and tywin. but i suspect that its one of the many clues that jaime and cersei are aerys bastards
(I did a couple videos so far but not the main videos. I'm actually finishing up a lil stannis series, then two arya videos which are oet projects, then finishing up the jaime/cersei dragon series. so prolly late junish, early July
Ok, I think Cercei is a Lannister, but I believe after season 6 when she was held captive she lost all remores and burns everyone she wants to burn. I just think she is a mad queen instead of a Targaryen.
Cersei and Jaime are still at least half Lannister, no matter who their father was. Joanna was Tywin's first cousin.
I'm with you-- Cersei was always unstable, and everything that happened with her children just put her over the edge. I'd have to be part mad, too, to live with the fact that my son (Joffrey) was such a monster.
Well, the imprisonment and madness mirrors Aerys, but I don't think it's because they're related.
When did Cersei have remorse for anyone past season 4? She was a monster
@@Argos-xb8ek That's true
Nah, she is a Lannister.
Yes, all those parallels are real.
But that speaks of the "lust for power".
The show is trying to tell us how vicious it is.
At the beginning of the show, it was the Targaryens they were blaming for losing their mind due to madness.
Now, the corruption of Cersei lannister just proves how everyone who lusts and sits on the throne is equally vulnerable to it.
That's what Cersei's behavior is all about.
If you look around these channels you will loose your faith in humanity due to how ridiculous these theories are. Its actually sad as most of game of thrones fans right now are causals who don't understand or appreciate the real narrative's of ASOIAF which are shown in the books and early seasons.
yeah i'd go so far as to say the true villain of this story is the throne and what it represents, which is why i think it will be destroyed in the end (at least in the books)
Well robert hadnt become paranoid or mad, just fat and lazy... so its not the same for every king apparently.
@@arianaorlandi6020 He didn't say it was in inevitable, he said they are vulnerable to it.
I think that it was foreshadowing that Jaime (hopefully in the books) will kill Cersei. All the comparisons of her to the Mad King were made by him, so Jaime just saw her transfrormation into the mad person she had become due to variety of events, starting with the maegi's prophecy.
So if Cersei is the mad King's child then so is Jaime. Aerys told Jaime to kill his father at the sack of King's landing. So, Ser Jaime was just following orders right?
yup, that's one of the plethora of cool color that this reveal (or interpretation) adds to the story =))
i had prepped my jaime videos december 2017, and i didnt catch that one you just mentioned until very recently (since it had been so long, i decided to do one final comb through of Jaime/Cersei chapters in advance of the Cersei and Jaime videos)
unfortunately, well, fortunately, i decided to squeeze in a tyrion video before the main one (jaime), and i havent combed tryrions 30+ chapters yet. so im trying to do a few every couple days while working on other videos. because i want to save the jaime stuff (plus summary type stuff related to many characters) for the jaime video since he's my boy
that means ive gotta get the tyrion video done first, for better or worse
@@bridge4 take your time bro the work you do isn't easy and you're good at it. But I'll definitely be eagerly awaiting Jaime Targ KINgslayer stuff
Thanks :))
there is something called heteropaternal superfecundation in which two separate ova are fertilized by two different fathers... meaning Cersei could be Aerys' and Jamie could be Tywin's...
I think the parallels between Cersei and the mad king are very intentional to show her insanity. I think it’s setting up her death at Jamie’s hand.
I really like this theory: it makes much more sense than Tyrion being a Targaryen - you pointed all the relevant items and hints out. But most of all I love the fantastic irony that comes with it: Jaime (being Aerys's son as well) would have killed his own father - just like Tyrion killed his. Tyrion, loathed by Tywin all his entire life would have been the only child Tywin ever had. The Gods , who always "flipped a coin" when a Targaryen was born obviously had dropped it when Cersei gave birth to Joffrey, LOL. And just imagine: Robert Baratheon, who always shouted he would "kill every Targaryen on earth" had shared his bed with a Targaryen for 15 years - not to mention the 3 Targaryen bastards he raised. I think George R. R. Martin loves ironies - we can find them all over in his books. That's why I can imagine that theory being true.
It's funny and ironic Robert Baratheon hate the Targaryens. Robert himself is a Targaryen's grandson.
I didn't notice it before, but Cersei's threat to Margaery after she called her 'sister' makes a lot more sense now.
There are also rumors that Tyrion is Tywin's son, as well. Wouldn't it be wild if all of Tywin's children were The Mad King's, making Tywin Lannister the ultimate cuck of the GOT. It would be an elegant balance to an otherwise master villain.
could be. but part of the beauty to Cersei/Jaime Targaryen is the Irony of TYrion being TYwin's only biological child
i could dig the full out insult to the dirtbag tywin as well tho lol
That would also mean Tywin's wife got raped more than once and didn't say a thing. Aerys was enamored with Joanna, there's nothing to say she was too right? Timeliness doesn't add up my friend
evidence points to the twins being aerys, not tyrion.. however if all were aerys, one could assume tywin may have been infertile. re rape - just could have easily been an affair... there were rumours.
@Loraine Waiter I don't recall any other dwarfism in the Targaryen line. Also Tywin and his wife were first cousins. Lots of women die in childbirth. There is a lot of interest in dragons and as Tyrion said when he went to free them drunk, they know who their friends are... so these could all just as easily be red herrings. I think it's quite possible they are all Aerys' children not Tywin's, but if any of them are Tywin's, it's going to be Tyrion. He has the Lannister intelligence and cunning.
It's highly implied that Aerys was sleeping with Joanne early on in the game, but we don't know if that affair continued years later....
Since Tywin is such a prick, it'd be poetic justice for only Tyrion to be his son... and it'd follow the whole unknowing kinslaying of fathers which recurs throughout the story.
Marcella was a innocent so you understand a mother's heart revenge.
But tommen was her own doing.
And In indulging joffrey she condemned him long before he became king.
If anything I'd say in my opinion that she is her own worse enemy.
what you're referring to is going to play a part in her ending imo... i wont say more for now though :-P
but yeah, i couldnt agree more with ya in terms of her impact on Tommen
@@bridge4
But tommen was becoming a good king. In time he could've become a great one.
But you get where tommen stood.
His mother betrayed him.
Murdered his wife and family.
Murdered innocent people who were killed in the blast.
And knowing he would used as a puppet.
So Noone can't blame him for jumping.
And Im sure you agree but the prophecy is in my own opinion is self fulling.
Pretty much she is responsible for making it come true as anyone.
And now she has lost Jamie.
@@alanmike6883 I don't think Tommen would have been a good king. He was weak. I know he was young, but you only have to look at other young characters in comparison to see it, i.e., Dany, Jon, all the Stark children, Lyanna Mormont. Tommen was completely lacking in gumption or inner fire or whatever it is that makes a good leader. I think he knew it too, and that's the real reason he jumped. He didn't have the strength to stand up to his mother.
@@caseyblauvelt9223 I agree with everything you said except for I don't think Tommen was weak. I think he didn't want to partake in the obviously wicked extremes his mother was going to use him to get whatever she wants. I think he took a big stand when he took himself out.
In other words, Cercei and Daenerys are...SISTERS ????
Half sisters :)
Now I'm looking forward to seeing them fight though I shouldn't 😂😂😂😂
But GRRM has also hinted that Daenerys may be Ashara Dayne's kid. In book 5, Barristan Selmy realizes how Dany has the exact same eyes as Ashara. What if, in Rhaegar's pursuit of the prophecies, Rhaegar and Ashara had Daenerys?
If the theory is true*
Ever since you started hinting at "Jaime Targaeryan" I have been rewatching the show with that theory in mind. So I picked up a scene in season 2 episode 7: Tyrion and Cercei are talking about how crazy and uncontrollable Joffrey is. Then Cercei says "Every time a Targaeryan is born the gods flip a coin." Peter D does some brilliant acting where he hesitates slightly, glances at her, and then says "You've beaten the odds..." (and then in a bit of an offhand way) "Tommen and Myrcella are both good decent children."
Do you think this is just some foreshadowing or that Tyrion might suspect something about his siblings' dragonblood?
her turning into a mad queen could simply be more for jamies story arc redemption
then that would make Jamie a Kin slayer not a king slayer
a kinslayer kingslayer. just like the night king and jon probably =))
And the heir to the iron throne.
both. but as a bastard not heir to the throne.
Big Stuart He already killed his cousin, Alton (the envoy) in the war of the five Kings right before killing Torrhen Karstark.
And even if he wasn't a bastard, Jon would still be before Jaimee in the line of succession because Rhaegar was older than Jaimee, Rheagar was the heir and therefore Rheagar's son, Jon, is then the heir to the throne. @@dfunkt2291
i would also like to point out that there is a conversation that Jamie has with his cousin, cant remember her name, she tells Jamie that "Tyrian is Tywins son". and when dany asks selmy about her fathers love life, he tells her that he had a crush on tywins wife, and insinuates that he slept with her on their wedding night. anyway, i think this is coming, at least in the books. GRRM also puts misleading clues in the books too thought.
Not cousin. His aunt Gemna Lannister.
King Aerys blatantly slept with Tywins wife all the time
Whoa. This is an incredible video that has given me so much food for thought! I’m still trying to process this! I never thought Cersei’s emotional instability was a signifier that she was the Mad King’s child, but it makes perfect sense! So does the fact that she and her brother don’t think there’s anything wrong with their incestous relationship, considering the long line of brother-sister incest in the Targaryen family tree, maybe on a _genetic_ level they somehow felt it was okay. Wow. 🤔 I wonder if Tywin ever suspected this? He loved and doted on Jaime so much! Crazy.
Tywin was on denial about cersei/jaime. There was a scene in the show where she came clean and he was so confused lol
Also, jaime has some type of fever profect dream in the books, and many targaryens were know of having this type of dreams.
Neither her nor Jaime are Targeryens. Is she mad? Yeah. Mad with power. Every leader who runs empires in dictatorship fashions are always mad with power. Paranoia eats them alive and all they know how to do is react! BUT this is something that I can also stand behind you and say Damn! You might just be right!
As smart as Tywin was though, I think he'd know!
Tywin was so smart that he knew about Jaime and cersei :-P
However, if Jamie and Cersei were Targaryen it would have rendered Jon Aryans use of Lannister genealogy to determine the paternity of Cersei's children as wrong and without merit. His suspicions were key to his murder and Ned's conflicts with the Lannisters
I had noticed it too while reading the books. The similarities between the mad king and cersei
Having any of the Lannisters be secret Targaryens takes away from the story IMO. I’ll be disappointed if it becomes a thing at all, but if it does I like the thought of Jaime/Cersei being Targaryen more than Tyrion.
I agree we have enough secret targaryens. Not only that it would pretty much diminish most of the Lannister houses part in the series
so the dude that puts out these videos only like comments of his OWN theory and not of anyone else? i think ill stop watching these then.. and take what i brought with me... that's a shitty way to keep a yt channel. best comment on here and its the only one he hasn't SD'd hearted...sucked... shame... HA! shame... indeed.
This. Jon and his secret birth is enough. Anymore secret births just take away from that being special. what purpose does it serve to make Jamie and Cercei Targaryen other than to make some puns fit.
There is no proof Jon is a Targaryen.
@@patmacrotch5611 if jaime is targ he might be the third head of the dragon with Jon and dany
No character will ever find out though because Aerys and Joanna will be the only ones who would’ve known, maybe George R. R. Martin will tell us some day but I’d be very surprised if the books released this
I do predict we will find out that tyrion is madkings son in the ice and fire lots of Targaryen foreshadowing in the books. Jamie and cersie aren't Targaryen I am 99% sure lol. You never trulely know with marin
so cersei and jaimie being a couple is no accident then,huh?
there is that ancient incest blood running throught their veins.
It's in everyone's lol. Tywin married his cousin
Am I the only one that noticed you kept saying George RR Mountain at the beginning?
i often use an image of GRRMartin's head over the mountains body. so this time, i recorded myself saying GRRMountain. i didnt end up using those images where i thought i would tho =))
😂😂I didn't notice.
Been saying this shit for years. Tyrion the most hated of Tywins son is his only genetic offspring
absolutely
He talked to dragons and survived. He might be Targ.
Blew my mind with this one! I never put these strings together!
Cersie will pay. She's taking the path of the Mad king before her. And if I remember, she is on Arya's list. Maybe she'll have a complete turn around and actually help kill the White walkers
i would love for her to have a redemption arc like that. i dont expect it. but i wouldnt be surprised if it happens. that'd be gnarly!
@@bridge4 maybe Arya will kill her in mercy to finish off her list. I want her to say "Burn them all" as she dies. Telling Jamie to burn the White Walkers as she dies in his arms
The fetus will die in her womb or will be stillborn while the dead army is at Kings Landing walls, will be risen by Night King and kill Cersey
Arya taking the face of one of the kingsguard and killing cersei with it... she has the one of meryn trant, but what about the hound kills gregor arya flays his face and cerseis own creature kills her... that´d be cool
@@apfel3397 Where is she keeping all those faces on her travels? Doesn't that shit rot? 🤔
This makes so much sense.... Even more so when you remember how Targaryens practised incest
STRNGS but her and Jamie are twins this is wrong he never broke down how wen did the mad king sleep wit Tywin wife
This would also help the theory that Jamie is the Prince that was promised
Aery’s blood, Tywin parental guidance, and a sprinkle of Baratheon holy matrimony! Yup, that explains the crazy!
Just want you to know how much I truly enjoy your videos. I have been planning to take the plunge and read the books, hesitating only because the thought of them not being completed is terrifying to me once I've started. But your videos have pushed me over the edge into how necessary it is. The fact that they are obviously dense and rich enough to spark these possibilities, especially after the show was thrown together so quickly to just get to an ending, characterization be damned, is thrilling to me. So thank you, truly, for your work!
the pleasure is mine. thank YOU for the support
dont forget about the side stories like "a knight of the seven kingdoms", fire and blood, and twoiaf =)) enjoy the ride!!
Wow. Makes a lot of sense. You could connect the fact that for Cersei's trial, she chose fire as her champion as well, when she blew up the sept.
Good call!
Excellent work, my friend. I think you're absolutely correct. I love the idea that Jamie and Cersei are Aeryes' and Tyrion is Tywin's only true born son.
the best stuff will come in the jaime video. but originally, this was a 6-8 minute mad queen cersei "parallels" section in that video. so i decided to split it out into its own. and then it grew lol
thank you btw
It's obvious none of these GoT theories are true but your tone of narration and commentary is so silky that we want them to be true. lol
I bet chicks at the bar stand no chance against you. "You should join me for an incredible night of coitis. Here's why...." LOL
Lmao
I have very bad hearing tho. So in public, I tend to scream with my head-voice as oppose to using my gut voice (which comes across when I'm trying to reduce my plosives we recording into a mic)
I know, it doesn't make sense. I deaf, but that doesn't mean others are, so I dont have to yell.... but I'm a dummy, so I can't help it. I tend to yell
So unfortunately,I can only ever remember recieving one compliment about my voice outside of youtube
You're funny tho. Thanks
Your hearing may be bad but your listening is second to none
hahaha, you're too kind, ser
I was on the fence about this theory until you reminded us of the Dornish poisoning(the rhyming of history). We all know how heavy handed the later seasons were in terms of translating table setting from the books, so that could be quite telling as the last season plays out. Good work as always 💯
im not following. the rhyming of the dornish poisoning? oh are you referring to the bit in this about Cersei's lust for torture? (which event do you see it rhyming specifically with?)
The whole attempt at stark house desolation. It’s eerily similar to the Dornish house actual desolation that it reminds me(show first, then book follow) of the same GRRM resolution to an age old trope. Seeing The Mad Queen attempt the same premeditated torture to Dornish was bone chilling
Your knowledge of Game of Thrones is insane! Great video
thanks, Harry =))
Olenna Tyrell is definitely my favorite character in the show. The back & forth sarcasm between her and Cersei is great.😂
Amazing video. Your editing and narration are dope. So hype for a trailer today 🤙
thanks, Kris
think we'll get one? maybe they will jsut drop one on their YT channel during the superbowl? (i figure there's probably not much of a benefit of spending the money for a 30s slot on tv though). what do you think?
Either way, the avengers trailer has me hype too 😂
Well it is a song of ice and fire...
It’s strange how it was so obvious and yet not many of us even thought of it.
Great video, very powerful and I am wowed!
I thoroughly enjoy hearing these theories, though I seldomly agree. It's just fun to see where it goes. And, at the very least, I pick up on things I may have overlooked.
If Aerys knew that Cersei was his....he would have married her to Raegar.....as it would have kept the bloodlines strong. Why would he overpass Cersei for Elia?
great point. he didnt know
Maby because she was a bastard our maby because she was only half targaryen and didn't have any targaryen features ( silver hair and purple eyes), in the books aerys refuse to meet and touch Rhaegar fist born( Rhaenys targaryen )with ellia martell because ' she smelled dornish' ( she didn't have targaryen features ).
Bypass, not Overpass. An overpass is a structure like a bridge that goes over another road!
She was promised to him but Maggy the frog's prophecy stated she would marry a king aka ''robert baratheon"
becuase he hated tywin so much that he’d be willing to slap tywin in h face rather than keep the bloodline pure, also Aerys probably wouldn’t have wanted Rhaegar to have any excuse for meeting wth Tywin lannister, he was that paranoid of the two working to over throw him.
I love this video! And I have always been more in the side of C&J being Targs over the Tyrion =Targ theories, but this erased any doubt. As you always point out in your brilliant research, lines aren't ever thrown away when they come from GRRM. And knowing this video isn't even a stand alone makes me very happy and even more in awe of your research skills! You do a great job with all your videos, but this one is in your top 10. Thank you for the time and effort you put into this. I'm always grateful for the amount of work you are willing to put in for "us". This "theory", backed up with your textual evidence is the epitome of great content. As many have said in the comments, they were on the fence and now know that C&J are Targs. Your talent of taking theoretical ideas and creating a tangible reality is a huge testament to your willingness to always go the extra step in not talking at your audience, but rather communicating with us, which are two very different things. Thank you, Kevin.
This thought has been on my mind for almost a month now. Glad to know that it was not just wishful thinking by me. Great video.
It's just the start. 3 more on this topic to come :))
I'm on Team Cersei on GeekChat1. Jaime and Cersei are Mad King's kids. There's so much foreshadowing🔥🦁🐲 You're the best at breaking these topics down. Don't know what we'd do without you Thanks for ANOTHER great video.😍👏👏💖
thanks, Kerri =))
@@bridge4 I sound like a doofus. Sorry... auto correct 🙄😉💙
Awesome video, Bridge! I definitely think Cersei is the mad king's daughter. She's WAY too much like him not to be.
if you say so, then im sold! (actually, itd be hard to convince me shes not lol) but you are a wizard, everyone at "Citadel of Trivia" knows that =))
@@bridge4HA! You kicked my butt this time!
Oh! I had a question pop into my head this week & I figured you're probably a person that would know the answer...Let's say a bastard gets married and then has a child, what name does that child get? Do they take on the bastard's name, even though they themselves are not a bastard? Dunno why, but it's been bugging me, lol. So, lets pretend that Jon Snow was actually a bastard (for the purpose of this question)...and he got married to Lyanna Mormont (just for fun, haha)...and they had a kid...would that kid be a Snow? a Stark? a Mormont???
I don't have an example. But I'm pretty sure that a bbtard marries into the family. So the Bastard and child would probably be Mormonts
@@bridge4 🤷♀️🤷♀️🤔🤔... 😊👍 makes sense.
The problem with this theory is that Jaime is Cersei’s twin. So he would also have to be the mad kings child and he is much more normal.
Cersei is more like Aerys and Aegon, the Unworthy while Jaime is more like Aemon, the Dragonknight!
I believe all of this but I was just wondering..
what was that about Tywin telling Tyrion: "Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors since I cannot prove that you are not mine."
is he just in denial?
About several things... such as Jaime and cersei
I’m thinking the parallels to the Mad King might just be to explain her spiral into madness of her own. OR to foreshadow part of the prophecy the witch gave that she would be killed by a “younger brother”? Jaime is technically younger. Also the king slayer. Food for thought.
You are completely right Cersei is Aerys's daughter in the books it will be revealed I really think so. Aerys and Cersei are so similar in the books even in the show. I like this video you made about Mad Queen Cersei.
Thanks :))
At the start of this video, I thought this theory was ridiculous, but as I reached the end I thought it was very plausible. Good job on the vid, keep up the good work 👏
Thanks Aiden, more to come on this topic :))
@@bridge4 Thanks for replying, your my favourite GoT / Asoiaf UA-camr, and have made me think about doing videos like yours 👍
Do it, Aiden! Please send me a link if yu make one
@@bridge4 Okay 👍
I haven t watched the video yet, but I think so!! there are lots of clues to that effect. whats her name telling Jamie that tyrion is tywins son. and baristan telling dany about her fathers crush, and misuse of the ancient "kings rights" plus the obvious insest, and hair color
george rr mountain, gets me everytime, that picture just looks too good
Lol I now call him grr mountain sometimes
Lena is the best actor on the whole show. She is amazing.
Alot of stud actors in this masterpiece. Shes definitely one of them :))
Jack Gleeson and Iwan Rheon were hands down the best actors in the show. Maisie Williams is probably the best currently. Lena is good, but can't hold a candle to their performances
She is one of the best bro, not the best in my opinion there have been many greatest actors in game of thrones Charles Dance and Sean Bean to name a few...
@@wertmaster100 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@wertmaster100 Agree except for Maisie
I'm rereading Game of Thrones and I saw this passage and had to find this video. It's the scene where she meets Ned and he basically tells her to run.
"Her eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil."
I thought you were stretching for this at first, but I'm slowly starting to side with you. Since day 1 I have said it was Tyrion who was the Targaryen bastard, but that would be almost too easy.
Tons of green pools (wildfire) dancing in her eyes. Like u mentioned. The Tyrion stuff is petty heavy-handed, so there a decent chance that he's the red-herring and its really jaime/Cersei (which adds way more to the story than Tyrion being a bastard) :))
I know this has not to do with much, but does it explain anywhere why Tyrion got the famous "TY" spelling of the Lannister name and not Jamie?
If I ever get to the tywin part of this analysis, I'll explain why, but I don't think tywin knew. So I look at it as more of an Easter egg than a decision by tywin
Cant wait. Best GOT youtuber. Keep killing it bridge4!
thanks, Scobey! =))
to be fair, i read my scripts verbatim usually. but i dont write like most writers. i talk outloud, and type my thoughts. then i sort of try to amend them. but when you do that, it doesnt sound natural, because im not a writer lol. so as im recording, i resay things how they feel natural (but scripting helps to try to be concise :))
bridge4 The content and the thought behind your theories is more important. There’s very little you say that hasnt been researched, and it shows. 👍.
Thank you all :))
There's NO ONE like Kevin. He's thorough, he speaks in a great cadence, he laughs (which is very endearing), his kindness comes through every thing he does, and he speaks to the "everyman", ie, you don't need numerous PhDs to enjoy and understand his content. He's smart as hell, but not pompous in any way. Kevin is the Davos of the UA-cam kingdom. Which is the highest praise I can ever give to anyone. He's a good person.
Hey Bridge4, would you be interested in doing a video on the dysfunctional dynamics of the key members of House Lannister? When it comes to Lord Tywin's relationships with his children to their relationships with each other, I think there might be more than meets the eye... From a psychological analysis perspective. Think "Flowers In The Attic"... How can they all loathe and constantly undermine each other so much, and yet they're constantly and incestuously intertwined in each other's lives? It's like they're addicted to the drama and to each other... I would like to see that idea explored much more. Human psychology is fascinating.
Maybe that's why Tywyn didn't trust cersi because when a targaryen is born the world flips a coin, one side they become a noble hero (Jamie) and the other they become insane ( cersi) and Tywyn knew this and as soon as Jamie prove which one he was, which would be when he killed aery, he knew not to trust cersi but instead use her madness by marrying her off to Robert in hopes I would get him killed and the Lannisters would get the throne
I'm not a Cersei hater, like I use to be. During her walk of atonement, I actually felt sorry for her. When Robert Strong / the Mountain was reanimated and came to her side, I was actually happy for her. I didn't like the High Sparrow/ faith militant and was glad when she destroyed them. When Marcella and Tommen died, I felt bad for her. Losing a child is enough to drive someone crazy. Losing all 3? Probably into some kind of madness. So I do feel for Cersei. How could she trust anyone again after what's happened to her? In the show last season, Olenna Tyrell and the Sand Snakes probably got what they deserved for poisoning her children. Maybe that's just revenge, mixed in with the madness. As for sex, it seems to be common for soldiers to want sex after a battle. So it's not just a Cersei mad queen thing.
A few other questions. Do Cersei / Jaime need to be Targareon? How would Cersei /Jaime find out that they are Targareon? Would Bran somehow find out and tell them? If they are secret Targareon's could one or both of them be Azor Ahai / Nissa Nissa / Lightbringer? Could Cersei help kill/heal the Night King? Maybe she's not a villain, but the antihero.
Also, another thought I had is that this madness isn't just a Targareon thing, but seems to be a common symptom of fire worshiping or fire magic. There's Melisandre's evil sacrifices. Daenerys burning her enemies to death with either her fire or her dragons fire. Even Tyrion seemed to have some temporary madness as he destroyed Stannis' fleet at Blackwater Bay with wildfire. Come to think of it, all pyromancers seem to be super crazy. The Mad King Aery's madness was at a much higher level though. He had no self awareness. Never bathed or groomed himself, and probably smelled horrific. I doubt Cersei falls into that level of pure insanity. It also makes me wonder if some of the madness is related to wildfire's secret ingredients? What could those secret ingredients be? Perhaps dragonglass? If "Frozen Fire" created the white walkers, then maybe unfreezing the "frozen fire" is related to madness. Maybe it's even related to the white walkers awakening from a thousands of years of sleep.
A lot to take in. Great post BTW. I'll be adrressing the "how to find out" later this week. I don't expect it, but it's possible
And I totally hear ya on sympathizing with her. For me it starts with her being basically traded as a wh*re so that drunk Robert could do as he wants with her. That's messed up
Keith Allen I agree with you! Wanted to write the same. I think that not fire but power makes people go mad. When someone can do whatever he wants he looses the possibility to think.
If you think about it though the deaths of Marcella and Tommen were her fault
Tommen, not myrcella (am I wrong?)
Are u saying indirectly since cersei accused Tyrion?
I really like this theory. If this is true, then it would nearly make all the lannister children kinslayers. Jaime killed his father, Tyrion killed his father and Cersei is trying to kill both her sister and brother.
this is one of your best videos!
Glad u enjoyed it. Thanks :))
Ooo I’m hoping Jaime’s version of this touches on his vision (where he only has one hand) from the books!
Some have conjectured that Bran had an influence on the Mad King becoming crazy mostly due to his burn them all comment. Is there any evidence the same might have happened to Cersei with Bran conversing with her?
my take is bran influencing the mad king doesnt really make sense unless it was an accidental hodor type even with jaime near bran fighting wights and yelling "burn them all"
that was probably bloodraven, and its probably the reason bloodraven warned bran not to speak to people in visions
For the life of me I can’t remember which book it’s in but in one of Tywin’s chapters you see him speaking to his sister about Tyrion. His sister says something like “he is your only true son” or something along those lines.
We learn later that he never speaks to his sister again.
Does anyone else remember this?
Oh, and the whole idea of the Targaryens “tossing a coin” of madness every time a child is born.
That’s 50:50
What will that say about twins.
After watching episode 4 season 8 we can all start to see dany becoming the mad queen
You and that Alt+Delete guy are my go-to GoT vlogs. Keep up the epic work
Thanks :))
You've made a really good case for this!
It's just the beginning, if you lie this, hang in their for the tyrion and Jaime videos. The Jaime one is gonna be fun :))
If we played the drinking game for every time Cercei says fire, we would all be drunk.
This is awesome ur channel does great videos. Have u done a video on tyrion's relationship with dany's dragons? Watching this video immediately caused me to recall those scenes in the book when the dragons were locked up cuz dany went missing.
I'll touch on it in the tyrion targ video as well as another one on bloodlines.
Short version, I don't believe in magical bloodlines
Are all true Targaryens immune from fire and heat? I'm confused a little. There is this mad belief in the Targaryens that they are dragons made in human. But it's is not true as we know of Aerion Targaryen drinking wildfire believing it would transform him to his real dragon image. The other example was of course Viserys. What's interesting here is that Dany said Viserys was no dragon when he died with a crown of molten gold by the Khal Drogo - and yet Dany was able to withstand fire of course. So what about Cersei and Jaime? Would they be immune from heat and fire? Or is it mad wishful thinking upon Cersei's psychotic part? I think you've put forward a great theory of Cersei being a Targaryen bastard but perhaps I veer towards GRR Martin's mantra that history rhymes rather than repeats and so perhaps Cersei echoes the Mad King by virtue of what sitting on the Iron Throne can lead to paranoia and delusions. Either way, I think as always you do an outstanding job in making is all think harder and bringing out the genius and wit of GRR Martin the Mountain!
none are immune. dany cheated death by stealing people's lives (blood magic)
@@bridge4 Aren't some of them resistant and not all but some I think G R.R. Martin said some like that.
@@bridge4 But yes they are not immune to fire, some of them build a resistance,, and even Dany has burned herself.
In the books, Dany can be burned but she has a higher tolerance for heat. Show & Book Dany survived Drogo's funeral pyre through accidental blood magic and potentially received extra protection through the spell song that Mirri Maaz Dur was singing when the fire began, as it is assumed it was an anti-burning spell, or a protection spell that was transferred onto Dany. When Dany burns all the Khals in their tent, after having the exits blocked, she may have gone into it thinking she was fire proof, or was exercising a similar blood magic ritual, potentially through experience. But Show Dany definitely SEEMS fire proof, but whether she is fire proof against wildfire (which is very different than regular fire) or dragon fire (either by living or dead dragons) has not been revealed. So I don't assume she cannot be killed by all types of fire in the show, but that may just be my cautious nature speaking.
There are many references in the books that indicate that not all Targaryens are "dragons". Something special, some kind of magic or maybe blood magic has to happen for them to be a true dragon. This is why so many people referred to Rhaegar as "the last dragon". Even though Viserys and Dany (and Maester Aemon) were still alive. My belief is that something happened at Summerhall that made Rhaegar a "dragon". And Dany had whatever this magic was also because the hot water in the tub or burning dragon egg didn't harm her. But to hatch the dragons actually required blood magic and others' lives. If Jon does end up being Rhaegar's son in the books, then he did not get the "dragon" traits, it seems, because his hand was badly burned when he killed the wight. He's more ice. He has all the Stark traits.
Where those little audio snippets from? They sound SO awesome lol.
Here's a lost of them (from each seasons bluray): gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Histories_%26_Lore
Search UA-cam for the individual titles or the full seaosn "histories and lore"
Good video as always
I also learned a new word ''Teats'' :P
Lol me too. I've only ever seen it from grrm
In Germany/Austria we also say "Titten" (ug) to the breasts (you pronounce teats and Titten nearly the same). Maybe these words are linked
did you notice the reference to "Ice and Fire" with the passage about Cersei being Tywin with teats? Tywin was like a glacier (ice) and Cersei was all wildfire (fire.)
I literally just finished watching all the Game Of Thrones history and lore videos, so it was a little weird when this video started 😅 But I liked it. Ten points!
thanks =))
Most kids play with fire, and torches are everywhere. Don't you think that john, cersi, or tyrian would have noticed this early on? Being if any are dragons they would have noticed.
That would make Jaime the Mad King's son as well.
Somewhere in the books Jaimies aunt tells Jaimie how Tywin was someday super proud of something Jaimie had done and how she answered him something like ‚you know tyrion is your son, not Jaimie‘
Also someone (Jorah?) once said that arys had a bit too much fun with tywins wife in their wedding night and Cersei an Jaimie were born pretty much 9 months later.
Also twins and incest are Targaryen things and maybe thats also why Tywin doesn‘t want to hear anything about their... relationship :D
This would also explain Joffrey madness and cruelty, making him maegor the second , 😆😆😆
They both killed cats, right?
@@bridge4 yep
Everytime I think you can't make something more awesome, notification hits and there you are ❤❤❤❤
:))
This theory would definitely make Jaime Azor Ahai, and I'm all for that, y'all.
how so, by killing cersei to prevent her from blowing up the city?
Can you explain a bit more? I'm interested in your line of thought.
You might not like to admit but it did feel good to see the Sparrows burn hahahaha.
She did have a right to be paranoid and I think you forgot the level abuse she suffered. Abuse causes trauma and severe trauma cannot be undone. It can lead to a whole host psychological issues.
Unlike Joffery Viserys or Ramsey there are actual things that pushed her sanity to the point she became unhinged. She is the tragic villain of the show and honestly the only one that I feel bad for.
Also she never had a mother or a woman role model she only had her father. So she tries to be what she thinks she is supposed to be.
I think a lot of people just like to hate her and honestly the book version is pretty monsterous but the show gives us a different Cersei. It is easier to hate than to have empathy for our enemies. I just hope she takes the throne with her and destroys it.
Game of Thrones would be nothing without the Lannisters especially Cersei
No one's going to mention how he's pronouncing Martin as Mountain?
i often use an image of GRRMartin's head over the mountains body. so this time, i recorded myself saying GRRMountain. i didnt end up using those images where i thought i would tho =))
Oh wow lol. I listen to your videos, not watch. So I guess that one went right over my head.
Lol ur missing out on one of my only cool.things. it's a jacked shirtless mountain pick with Georgea head. I use it a lot an people get a kick out of it.
Since some people wittier than myself comments that he's George rr mountain, I finally said it in a video, but i forgot to use the image lol
I'm a visual.learner tho. So by all.means listen, but I design many if my videos for visual learners. So I'm not sure if they will even make sense without the visuals lol
@@bridge4 The visuals for me, don't mean much. I actually thought you did half decent with defining things without them.
I would love to watch every video thoroughly, but I'm busy with other things. Luckily I can learn visually and audibly.
I Mostly just want to hear of theories and facts from the books and show.
Loved this video and the work you do on your videos.
Thanks :))
This my friend may be the your best video
Lol I wish it wasn't performing like crap. I spent something like 100 hours on this haha. Ah well. Thank you!! :))
Hey Kev, do you think she is going to survive beyond the long night or the finale or have some kind of redemption arc or win?
Redemption because: Both her brothers had some kind of redemption arcs after being portrayed evil-ish during the beginning. (As opposed to starks who started as pure good recently started to show change).
Winning because: since the beginning Lannisters were always winners because they're welling to do anything for a win- there's no indication of this changing.
All my death/survive predictions are part of tomorrow's video. Around 1230 EST :))
I love the Parallels you make between Cercei and Aerys..[a]Cercei/Incest=Aerys/Incest ..[b] Cercei/jealousy against Margaery/Danny/Sansa =Aerys jealousy against Tywin/Rhaegar /Robert ..[c]Cercei/Wildfire obsession/burn cities to the ground =Aerys/Wildfire obsession /wanted to burn KL because he saw enemies everywhere ..[d]Cercei/Walk of Shame torture=Aerys/Defiance of Duskendale tortures ..and some few other parallels such as her complete paranoia to see enemies everywhere[on the East[Danny],on the South[Dorne],on the West[the Greyjoy family- Euron who is hers now] and in the North[Jon and the Starks]..See the Seed is Strong [Jon Arryn].
She's right to be paranoid as her children were all killed by outsiders trying to get at the Lannisters. Joffrey was killed by Olenna but Cersei thought it was Tyrion, thus her suspicions about the Tyrells was spot on. Myrcella was poisoned by the Martells, thus she mistrust them and had them killed. Then Tommen committed suicide but it can be argued he was under the influence of the High Sparrow, who's religion led to her imprisonment because of Lancel's confession. She had them killed along with the Tyrells. It can be said her paranoia was brought on by her children's deaths which is tragic and even though she has made mistakes by creating a joke of a small council in the books and mistrusting Kevan, her paranoia and instincts have kept her alive and landed her on the Iron Throne. To rule is hard and you need to be wary of everyone, although too much of it can lead to madness and your downfall. It's funny too that Aerys own downfall came from his sworn sword Jamie who he didn't suspect even though he was paranoid of everyone. So his one act of trust ultimately lost him his life.
Yet another thought-provoking video...
If this is true, it’d be awesome for Cersei to go out by drinking wild fire while King’s landing is overrun. I feel like Joffrey’s comment has to be an Eater egg for something. Maybe Maggie the Frog’s prophecy isn’t literal at all and the Valanqar choking her is more a metaphor for her enemies (led by Jamie and maybe even Tyrion) closing in, creating a “chokehold” on the city. I can’t remember what specific video of yours it is, but it’d tie into your theory of Kingslayer = Kinslayer too. I wonder if they’d have enough time to explain Cersei/Jamie being bastards since it was never addressed in the show that Aerys had a thing for Joanna. So many options for that third twist...
I also think it could be Bran really has been affecting the whole past and his series of flashbacks in the show are actually all events he influenced or caused through his time travel. Idk Lots to think about for this last season🧐🧐🧐
oh my old jaime night kingslayer theory. since then, i discovered the green dragonglass. i could be wrong, but at this point, im strapped in with so many seatbelts on the "healing the night king" train lol
it would be gnarly tho if jaime "forged a fiery sword" in preventing Cersei from blowing up the city, then sacrificing himself to blowup the army of the dead
nevermind, i think you were referring to something else. yeah, i thyrough out the kinslayer thing alot, because i believe that jaime, Jon, and the night king (before he became the night king) all unknowingly killed their biological fathers, which if true, is pretty wild
ink is dry on past, present, and future. i dont believe bran is changing anything. he happens to be part of the past at times (like hodor), but i dont buy into any of the bran=nk or bran=bran the builder stuff. doesnt really resonate at all with me. cant make sense of them
Haha yea my comment was all over the place, sorry. I was just thinking Cersei and Jamie being Aerys’ bastards would be a great third twist to the story, and then added in the bit about Bran. I just watched a video by TeflonTV on Bran so that was on my mind.
Tony is the man
Sometimes twins have different fathers. Joanna ward with both Tywin and Ayres. Jaime could be Tywin's legitimate child while Cersi is Ayres's (great?) Bastard.
Could be
Not identical twins. I don't believe.
No. Identical twins come from a single egg. Fraternal twins are two eggs fertilized at or near the same time.
@@bearhall4919 Identical twins are always the same sex.
In the book Mad King Aerys took liberties during Twyin Lannister's wedding. Making Cersei's and Jamie's legitamacy questionable. Tywin hated Tryrion not because he killed his mother at birth but because he came oput wrong. As a dwarf Tryrion was imperfect yet undoubtly Tywin's son and that was unbearable.
Interesting theory, but I honestly believe Tyrion is the only Targaryen of the three remaining Lanisters. I get Cercei's parallel to the Mad King, but that doesn't necessarily mean she's his daughter. I find Tyrian's evidence of his hair and eye color, as well as killing his mother in childbirth (like Dany and Jon) is stronger proof than incest, anxiety, and wildfire.
I think the evidence for Tyrion being a Targaryen is more obvious and the evidence for Jaime and Cersei being Targaryens is more subtle, that's why I think the evidence for Tyrion is a red herring and it's really Jaime and Cersei
Kill before u get killed...burn baby burn ...
Awesome video... always a pleasure to listen and to watch 👍
2:20 "George R.R. Mountain" hahahaha
I'm totally drinking this cool aid. I do think Cersei is the mad King daughter since the mad King use to rape her mother. Great video once again Bridge4 👏👌💪
Thank you ser
Been waiting for this video for weeks. Not even watched it yet and already liked 👍🏽
3 more videos to come on this topic. there's a lot to go through =))
bridge4 this is one of the few ASOIAF theories that I can actually see becoming canon, at least in the books. Imo it’s not discussed often enough, so I’ll be looking forward to your whole analysis
You must have a masters degree in connecting dots. Very interesting.
Lol
Remember also that fraternal twins such as Cercei and Jamie can conceivably (no pun intended) have different fathers. Cercei's being the Mad King's daughter does not necessarily preclude Jamie's being Tywin's true born son. Their similar looks might have been a dominant genetic gift from their mother. With all the incest among Targaryens, it would make sense that dwarfism would be a frequent result. Upshot? Tywin, always so vehement about family--may actually have had NO legitimate offspring. And Cercei will be strangled--as was permissible prior to a C-section--being delivered of a dwarf.
is it me, or does he say @ 0:55 George R.R. MOUNTAIN?
the deadliest warrior in the seven kingdoms, a pen and a sword! o.O
Lol its cause I often use an image of the mountain with grrm's head over the mountains head
I like your play on it tho, you poet, you!
bridge4 haha yeah i know the one you mean, i just imagined that one with a pen writing our favorite characters to death while fighting ^^
LMAO, i hadnt pictured THAT GRRMountain with a pen. thats friggen hilariou
i need to remember to add a pen to his hand at some point lol
bridge4 nightmare fuel fighting against arya and writing danny to death o.O
Lets just hope george doesn't read this idea xD
Where do you find the cast actors telling the stories? Are they from a podcast or another and website?
here:s a list of all them invidiaually. ytou can find them all on youtube. if you want the easiewst way without specific topics, just season season 1 histories and lore, season 2 histories and lore, etc: gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Histories_%26_Lore
Oh man, I've sooo been waiting for this upload! Fantastic breakdown Kev. Thank you 😊
im finishing a bunch of other projects first, but this is just the tease. the main video will be the jaime one (tywin then tyrion, then jaime)
there's just sooo much data to work with tho
@@bridge4 I do remember you said the Jaime one would be the main one. Looking forward to them all.. 🙌 😁
I could watch shows off all of their history and their future and never get tired of the truths we can learn
Cersei did NOT see Olenna Tyrell dead in the show, and for that matter neither did Jamie. He gave her the poison, he watched her drink it, but then he left and we went to another scene. What if Olenna had her master nearby with antidotes? This is, after all, Game of Thrones: Don't assume someone's dead until you see their corpse burned.