Thanks for a great test and vid! I run an ultra motor with DH suspension, 220 brakes, 9 speed gears and chain for strength and hupe steel freehub. Love it.. Its not as refined as a top end ebike but the fun factor is great.
@@Mamawsw Hope pro 4 hub with stainless steel freehub. Shimano HG400 all steel cassette. sram 9 speed chain. Shimano Saint derailer. Its strong but no clutch on derailer. If building again I would try Box 8 or 9 speed set up.
now.. X1 Stealth vs M620 please? to see if the torque is really that supreme on the M620 compared to the X1 Stealth or if the X1 is faster either way.. also it mounts on any regular bike frame which the bafang doesnt
We were able to climb a 60 Degree fireroad with lots of loose sand using 100% Throttle on our 100 lbs Cafe Racer with 26x4" Tires, 44T Crankwheel and 50T Rear Cog. The Ultra Motor is 100% Stock 1500W @ 30 Amps using stock 48V17.5AH Samsung Battery. The Drivetrain/Good Tires will turn that Ultra (or BBSHD) into a whole other beast with the right drivetrain setup... We are currently in process of testing a 150 lbs Enduro Ebike with BBSHD in both 1.5kw as well as BBSHD in 3.5kw version with the same exact drivetrain setup (28T crankwheel with 50T rear cog). The 150 lbs Ebike has tendency to do a front wheelie (even with stock BBSHD). That drivetrain on the BBSHD puts even our Ultra Motor to shame. We are running out of places to climb using 100% Throttle all the way. And on low gear, using 100% Throttle, the bike's riding range is over 250 miles with the 48V70AH (3360WH Samsung Battery). Using Pedal Assist, the #s are well over 300 miles of riding range. And we were able to pull a 10000 lbs Ford F350 truck (28T crank/50T Cog). So imagine the Torque Output. Ground Speed might be 10MPH on the BBSHD and 12MPH on the Ultra. But on a 50-60 Degree Hill Climb, we are averaging 5-6 MPH pace using 100% Throttle. And for whatever the reason, the MINIMUM rear tire that you need on the Ultra Bike is 4" or wider. A 2.8-3" tires just doesn't have the traction to stick to the trail and handle the full torque of the Bafang Motor. 120 lb/ft is more Torque than any gas powered motorcycle (including off road dirt bikes) except a 250MPH Kawasaki Ninja with 300+ HP. But the Ultra/BBSHD only has 2 HP! :D watch?v=AYl_G5oIogg or UA-cam Search: 60 Degree Bafang Ultra Cafe Racer We wish we sent our specific Off Road Tuned Ebike with both the Ultra and BBSHD Version to see what the bike can do using 100% Throttle as well as our X1 Version with 3x the power and 50% more torque.
@@womacko So I can convert my Bulls FS mountain bike which has the Bosch CX performance motor to the Bafang Ultra? Will the Bosch battery still work with it?
Gee never had a peddler assist ebike ever. Did notice a huge difference tho in my mountain bike VS my now hybrid fitness Roady with 700c high speed skinnies! I fly up and down hills no problem. 95 psi good to go #seeyalatergator
I had a G510 equipped Frey FAT1000 for three years. Sold it and changed to an unrestricted EP801 Canyon. Why? Weight, smoothness and noise. 34 kg vs 24 kg on trails is a huge difference. G510 torque is clunky as heck. It’s like comparing a tractor and an electric 4x4.
The torque sensing works well we were happy with its performance. It is a little rough taking off in the higher power modes and not quite as smooth as the shimano or brose systems overall.
Hi Guys I have a 2020 Frey AM1000 with the Bafang M620 and a Innotrace controller and a 2022 Specialized Turbo Levo S-Works with the Brose 2.2 motor. The Bafang is significantly quieter. The Innotrace/Achron controller makes the M620 so much smoother and manageable. No jerky power burst at start of pedaling. Better power management and torque sensing control. Brose control system is still much more superior. Much faster response when putting pressure on the cranks. Both are fun bikes and two different animals.
You probably have the wrong setup on your AM1000. I have a Frey CC and another mountain bike I listed on Ebay called Bafang Ultra Enduro Mountain Ebike. I use 38/40T Crankwheel with 50T Rear Cassette. Those 2 Emtb have so much torque, I can climb a 45 Degree hill just using PAS 1 all the way (I still have 4 more PAS levels to use). My buddy's Turbo Levo 700wh battery died after 27 miles (with a 250W motor) and my Bafang Ultra Ebike lasted 33 miles and over 6000 feet of elevation gain using my 48V17.5AH (840WH battery) using a 1000W motor. Issue with Ultra Ebikes are the manufacturers using crap drivetrain on nice motors. Use the same exact efficient drivetrain on a Ultra Ebike (as Bosch/Shimano/Brose do on their high-end Emtb), and watch how the Ultra comes alive. I can only imagine what the Frey Beast that I ordered will do with 1800W Ultra Mid Drive (60V battery) with 40T crank/50T cog. These bikes are just too much fun. Can you imagine if Specialized gets their hand on the Bafang Ultra Motor. We are talking over $20k price tag. lol
@@vm2003 in uk bafang won't be on major brands be cause of legal laws I had one of these 250w cubes and now have Frey ex pro the Frey nothing can touch it the Frey has so much power I can cycle up stairs with ease or can just use the throttle.
750w is the "Legal Limit" in a good portion of the USA. "legal" is the key to being a ble to sell it. staying under the radar, not flying by people 100mph, being respectful, allows me to ride just about any trail out there without complaints...even though my Ultra FS fatty is 1500 watts!
I have a full suspension 52 volt ebike coming in about a week, that is powered by the BaFang m620motor/ system, I'm just curious as to how the mannerisms of the m620 compared to the m600 ?. Is there that much difference in performance ?, I know it's 160 compared to 120nm. Also is the bafang m620 that much louder than the let's sav, bosch,or brose, Shimano, or even the m600 ?. Any information would be greatly appreciated ,thank you in advance
The m620 has Significantly more performance then the m600. The m600 is very similar in performance to the Bosch and brose motors. The m620 is louder then the other motors especially under full power.
@@vm2003 yep. love the BBSHD. i went from 2+ years on a Ultra into a smaller, folding 20x4.0 fatbike, but with BBSHD. after a few weeks of tuning the support it is smooth and doesnt kick. lovely almost fully silent.
what gear ratio, dudes? what level of assistance support? What about motor efficiency? There is so much more to consider when choosing a motor. I would say very disappointing performance given specs on paper. just to make another video type of video
Our Enduro Ebike with X1 Mid Drive peaks at 5500W and 250NM Torque while our other custom Cafe Racer AWD Peaks at 2500W/240NM of Torque. And when putting that type of power via 26x4.8" Maxxis Tires, you got yourself a all terrain 2 wheel ATV.
Innotrace is crap based on the one I tested. They need a high ampage battery to make full use of that power. So if you go Innotrace, might as well as buy fully assembled bike from Watt Wagon and/or use your own custom 48/52V battery to handle the higher amps. Otherwise, how else will the controller peak at 3500W? That 240nm is suspect. I didn't get mine past 160-180nm range and that is with my super efficient 28T crank/50T Drivetrain setup. Maybe Im doing something wrong in the shop. haha
So you've compared a 1000w Bafang to 250w Shimano, Bosch... What's the point? It's like a VW Golf and a Porsche. The music starts just when you start cycling so you can't hear how loud it is...
160nm is blurring the lines a bit imo. Very roughly, a 1600cc petrol motor has 160 nm of torque. And 5kg for motor plus 7kg ? or so for the 1300mah battery you need to get the same range is a lot of extra weight, what was the total weight of the bike 29 kg ? A heavier bike needs heavier components and it goes down hill from there. I hope you got double crown forks on the new bikes I'm not sure even 38s will handle it.
Dude the added weight is a few pounds. What sorta parts are you using where few more pounds is too much? Ever like ride with a backpack, need to upgrade your fork to handle extra weight of your backpack.
Can someone please explain what all the letters and numbers mean? I'm struggling to understand what they all mean. I want to order a bafang m620 ultra, but none of them seem to be advertised as a ultra? (I'm dyslexic and generally just dumb)
M620/G510 ultra is the model after BBSHD. The BBSHD is a smaller sized motor with 1000w and 160nm of torque. It can be mounted in almost any existing frame. The M620 is a bigger motor and needs a purpose built cradle which makes it seriously harder to retro fit.
@@talbotz so if I need to buy a 750w motor to keep it legal, what motor/bike is the best I can do (I care about climbing and towing, not speed)? Thanks, this stuff is all Greek to me lol.
To get consistent times across all bikes we pedal as hard as we can each time. Makes a big difference on low power bikes, difference would be smaller for bikes like this.
1500 watts and a throttle is far superior. Its just more fun. Time will prove this. The haters have no clue, theyve never even tried it. I have tried them all. Bafang ultra is the best way to go.... For me. Pacific northwest tech singletrack.
@@pawelodz8050 You also have to put into consideration the Bafang M620 with its 160nm and 1500w is alot more then any name brand can come even close to. So if myself and others are getting 2000km+ then I'm sure someone running 250w at 60nm will get plenty more
sadly a bike like that isn;t a bike in europe, you would have to put two rear view mirrors on it, a bike stand, and you would not be allowed to go anywhere else but on the road. i also wonder how many cassettes and chains you would need to go thru a year, i expect at least 4
Luna ultra tuned is awesome even at only 1500 watts. Ive had a turbo levo. For me, the m620 is the only way to go. I ride tech singletrack in the pacific northwest. The bikes are barely comparable. Id say see ya later on the trail. And my bike has 10.5 inches rear travel 8 front. Ohlins.
The only time the the response doesn't match input perfectly is if it's in assist level 3-5, thats because it has so much power. that's a good thing.. Just got to ride it properly.
@@salamelvisual6270 sure it does. Im sure you with some Jacky software and a little knowledge can tune a motor better then a company that has been making ebike motors for decades…
It's nice to see the numbers, even though we knew the answers it's nice to see it on paper. Thank you
I have the new Frey AM1000 with the G510 Torque sensing, 48 volt 21 ah. It's a beast to ride! Loving it!
You sold me on this bafang mid drive. Great video
Thanks for a great test and vid! I run an ultra motor with DH suspension, 220 brakes, 9 speed gears and chain for strength and hupe steel freehub. Love it.. Its not as refined as a top end ebike but the fun factor is great.
Shimano 9 speed? An wich chain/steel freehub is good for the power of the ultra ? 🤔
@@Mamawsw Hope pro 4 hub with stainless steel freehub. Shimano HG400 all steel cassette. sram 9 speed chain. Shimano Saint derailer. Its strong but no clutch on derailer. If building again I would try Box 8 or 9 speed set up.
the ultra can by tuned to perfect smoothness and customized output character over PC and a USB cable. WHICH THE FAG BRANDS WITH 250W CAN NOT.
Very good job guys. 👍👍👍
Got my m620 plugged into a 52v battery. Putting out 1650 and even more torque. Beast
What size tires are on your test bike?
So you test it only now? my friend rides it (motor) about one ear, also you don't say that it can run without pedal assist, only with the throttle
now.. X1 Stealth vs M620 please? to see if the torque is really that supreme on the M620 compared to the X1 Stealth or if the X1 is faster either way..
also it mounts on any regular bike frame which the bafang doesnt
What is max r.p.m. of the Bafang M620 ?
We were able to climb a 60 Degree fireroad with lots of loose sand using 100% Throttle on our 100 lbs Cafe Racer with 26x4" Tires, 44T Crankwheel and 50T Rear Cog. The Ultra Motor is 100% Stock 1500W @ 30 Amps using stock 48V17.5AH Samsung Battery. The Drivetrain/Good Tires will turn that Ultra (or BBSHD) into a whole other beast with the right drivetrain setup...
We are currently in process of testing a 150 lbs Enduro Ebike with BBSHD in both 1.5kw as well as BBSHD in 3.5kw version with the same exact drivetrain setup (28T crankwheel with 50T rear cog). The 150 lbs Ebike has tendency to do a front wheelie (even with stock BBSHD). That drivetrain on the BBSHD puts even our Ultra Motor to shame. We are running out of places to climb using 100% Throttle all the way. And on low gear, using 100% Throttle, the bike's riding range is over 250 miles with the 48V70AH (3360WH Samsung Battery). Using Pedal Assist, the #s are well over 300 miles of riding range. And we were able to pull a 10000 lbs Ford F350 truck (28T crank/50T Cog). So imagine the Torque Output.
Ground Speed might be 10MPH on the BBSHD and 12MPH on the Ultra. But on a 50-60 Degree Hill Climb, we are averaging 5-6 MPH pace using 100% Throttle.
And for whatever the reason, the MINIMUM rear tire that you need on the Ultra Bike is 4" or wider. A 2.8-3" tires just doesn't have the traction to stick to the trail and handle the full torque of the Bafang Motor. 120 lb/ft is more Torque than any gas powered motorcycle (including off road dirt bikes) except a 250MPH Kawasaki Ninja with 300+ HP. But the Ultra/BBSHD only has 2 HP! :D
watch?v=AYl_G5oIogg or UA-cam Search: 60 Degree Bafang Ultra Cafe Racer
We wish we sent our specific Off Road Tuned Ebike with both the Ultra and BBSHD Version to see what the bike can do using 100% Throttle as well as our X1 Version with 3x the power and 50% more torque.
60 degrees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is 173 grade!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nonsense!
They need to make these so they fit in mainstream bikes like the levo as well as home brew frames
I do offer conversion kits. For now only Bosch to Bafang.
@@womacko So I can convert my Bulls FS mountain bike which has the Bosch CX performance motor to the Bafang Ultra? Will the Bosch battery still work with it?
Are we allowed to have this in Australia???😉
Gee never had a peddler assist ebike ever. Did notice a huge difference tho in my mountain bike VS my now hybrid fitness Roady with 700c high speed skinnies! I fly up and down hills no problem. 95 psi good to go #seeyalatergator
I had a G510 equipped Frey FAT1000 for three years. Sold it and changed to an unrestricted EP801 Canyon. Why? Weight, smoothness and noise. 34 kg vs 24 kg on trails is a huge difference. G510 torque is clunky as heck. It’s like comparing a tractor and an electric 4x4.
Now with Innotrace x1 2500w Controller 😄 would be intressting too!
I love my Exess with Innotrace 2200Watt & 180Nm and my Dengfu Fatbike with Innotrace 2500W & 200Nm
Hello, could you say something about torque sensor? Work good? Similar to Shimano and brose? Because i can't find information.
The torque sensing works well we were happy with its performance. It is a little rough taking off in the higher power modes and not quite as smooth as the shimano or brose systems overall.
Hi Guys
I have a 2020 Frey AM1000 with the Bafang M620 and a Innotrace controller and a 2022 Specialized Turbo Levo S-Works with the Brose 2.2 motor. The Bafang is significantly quieter. The Innotrace/Achron controller makes the M620 so much smoother and manageable. No jerky power burst at start of pedaling. Better power management and torque sensing control. Brose control system is still much more superior. Much faster response when putting pressure on the cranks. Both are fun bikes and two different animals.
You probably have the wrong setup on your AM1000. I have a Frey CC and another mountain bike I listed on Ebay called Bafang Ultra Enduro Mountain Ebike. I use 38/40T Crankwheel with 50T Rear Cassette. Those 2 Emtb have so much torque, I can climb a 45 Degree hill just using PAS 1 all the way (I still have 4 more PAS levels to use). My buddy's Turbo Levo 700wh battery died after 27 miles (with a 250W motor) and my Bafang Ultra Ebike lasted 33 miles and over 6000 feet of elevation gain using my 48V17.5AH (840WH battery) using a 1000W motor. Issue with Ultra Ebikes are the manufacturers using crap drivetrain on nice motors. Use the same exact efficient drivetrain on a Ultra Ebike (as Bosch/Shimano/Brose do on their high-end Emtb), and watch how the Ultra comes alive. I can only imagine what the Frey Beast that I ordered will do with 1800W Ultra Mid Drive (60V battery) with 40T crank/50T cog. These bikes are just too much fun. Can you imagine if Specialized gets their hand on the Bafang Ultra Motor. We are talking over $20k price tag. lol
@@vm2003 in uk bafang won't be on major brands be cause of legal laws I had one of these 250w cubes and now have Frey ex pro the Frey nothing can touch it the Frey has so much power I can cycle up stairs with ease or can just use the throttle.
Power difference is huge, so I don't know is that worth tested same category..
Do the same test with Bafang 620 upgraded with an Innotrace controller.
Why some ebike manufacrers advertis the M620 Ultra as 750 watts and some with a 1000 watts?
750w is the "Legal Limit" in a good portion of the USA. "legal" is the key to being a ble to sell it. staying under the radar, not flying by people 100mph, being respectful, allows me to ride just about any trail out there without complaints...even though my Ultra FS fatty is 1500 watts!
I came here searching for ebike with the maximum torque to climb the steep hills (24 grade) of San Francisco. Which ebikes comes with this motor?
WattWagon Hydra
I have a full suspension 52 volt ebike coming in about a week, that is powered by the BaFang m620motor/ system, I'm just curious as to how the mannerisms of the m620 compared to the m600 ?.
Is there that much difference in performance ?,
I know it's 160 compared to 120nm.
Also is the bafang m620 that much louder than the let's sav, bosch,or brose, Shimano, or even the m600 ?.
Any information would be greatly appreciated ,thank you in advance
The m620 has Significantly more performance then the m600. The m600 is very similar in performance to the Bosch and brose motors. The m620 is louder then the other motors especially under full power.
@@EpiceBikes Meanwhile a 1.5kw BBSHD with Nylon Gear is quieter than all the Class 1 motors under full power.
@@BrotherChad X1 Pro says hi and will put all electric motor noises to shame. Its next level loud (metal gear at much higher RPM).
@@vm2003 yep. love the BBSHD. i went from 2+ years on a Ultra into a smaller, folding 20x4.0 fatbike, but with BBSHD. after a few weeks of tuning the support it is smooth and doesnt kick. lovely almost fully silent.
The M 620 can be re greased with John Deer Cornhead grease to quiet down the motor and give more longevity
what gear ratio, dudes? what level of assistance support? What about motor efficiency? There is so much more to consider when choosing a motor. I would say very disappointing performance given specs on paper. just to make another video type of video
Is the motor ALWAYS that loud when in use???
You probably need a huge battery for that power.
Similar to the displacement difference of a motorcycle.
250cc supersports can't beat 1000cc classic bikes uphill.
these motors should be tested electric only.
With Innotrace X1 up to 3500W and 240nm.
Our Enduro Ebike with X1 Mid Drive peaks at 5500W and 250NM Torque while our other custom Cafe Racer AWD Peaks at 2500W/240NM of Torque. And when putting that type of power via 26x4.8" Maxxis Tires, you got yourself a all terrain 2 wheel ATV.
Innotrace is crap based on the one I tested. They need a high ampage battery to make full use of that power. So if you go Innotrace, might as well as buy fully assembled bike from Watt Wagon and/or use your own custom 48/52V battery to handle the higher amps. Otherwise, how else will the controller peak at 3500W? That 240nm is suspect. I didn't get mine past 160-180nm range and that is with my super efficient 28T crank/50T Drivetrain setup. Maybe Im doing something wrong in the shop. haha
So you've compared a 1000w Bafang to 250w Shimano, Bosch... What's the point?
It's like a VW Golf and a Porsche. The music starts just when you start cycling so you can't hear how loud it is...
you know that the brose for example peaks at 800+ watts?
the 250W is a joke in those motors, they peak like 3x higher lol
He didnt even use full power he is on pedal assist 3 the whole time. You can go upto pedal assist 5.
160nm is blurring the lines a bit imo. Very roughly, a 1600cc petrol motor has 160 nm of torque. And 5kg for motor plus 7kg ? or so for the 1300mah battery you need to get the same range is a lot of extra weight, what was the total weight of the bike 29 kg ? A heavier bike needs heavier components and it goes down hill from there. I hope you got double crown forks on the new bikes I'm not sure even 38s will handle it.
No Wayne, your understanding is blurred.
Haha , good to see another actual ebike rider with an opinion
Dude the added weight is a few pounds. What sorta parts are you using where few more pounds is too much? Ever like ride with a backpack, need to upgrade your fork to handle extra weight of your backpack.
I've built a bike using this motor and my rockshox pike 35mm stanchions handle fine, 52v 14AH battery, bike weighs 28KG
Now to mention the 1600cc petrol motor probably has around 150 Horse Power as well. The Ultra Motor has same torque and only 2 Horse Powers. LMAO
Can someone please explain what all the letters and numbers mean? I'm struggling to understand what they all mean. I want to order a bafang m620 ultra, but none of them seem to be advertised as a ultra? (I'm dyslexic and generally just dumb)
M620/G510 ultra is the model after BBSHD. The BBSHD is a smaller sized motor with 1000w and 160nm of torque. It can be mounted in almost any existing frame. The M620 is a bigger motor and needs a purpose built cradle which makes it seriously harder to retro fit.
@@talbotz so if I need to buy a 750w motor to keep it legal, what motor/bike is the best I can do (I care about climbing and towing, not speed)? Thanks, this stuff is all Greek to me lol.
I have ebike with bafang ultra motor I can tow 2 bikes connected to each other going uphill. Lots of power but it's a heavy bike.
It's 1500 watts with gearing why did you even pedal uphill?
To get consistent times across all bikes we pedal as hard as we can each time. Makes a big difference on low power bikes, difference would be smaller for bikes like this.
1500 watts and a throttle is far superior. Its just more fun. Time will prove this. The haters have no clue, theyve never even tried it. I have tried them all. Bafang ultra is the best way to go.... For me. Pacific northwest tech singletrack.
@@nobody617 unfortunately I can't exceed 750w, do you have a favorite motor at 750w?
New chain every 400 miles??😁😂
Naw. Lasts along time if you pay attention to your shifts.
Easily get 2000km+
@@unclejohn5012 not much but my bosch same time 2k km as well around.. I need to test new linkglide shimano, maybe will be better
@@pawelodz8050 You also have to put into consideration the Bafang M620 with its 160nm and 1500w is alot more then any name brand can come even close to. So if myself and others are getting 2000km+ then I'm sure someone running 250w at 60nm will get plenty more
@@unclejohn5012 yeah 160nm. I saw comparison when bafang 100+nm could not keep up with Bosch 85nm in climbing. China nm is a bullshit
sadly a bike like that isn;t a bike in europe, you would have to put two rear view mirrors on it, a bike stand, and you would not be allowed to go anywhere else but on the road. i also wonder how many cassettes and chains you would need to go thru a year, i expect at least 4
So negative.. loosen up a little
I've got this bike in Europe and I've done 1k miles on original chain and cassette 😄
Yea c'mon stop being such a bootlicker and dicoraging people from getting a decent bike. Let industry control you but keep to yourself
no, the 250W is a lie to get around EU restrictions either way so just let it do it's job and don't mount a throttle to it and limit it to 25km/h
No, it does not wear out chains and such if you shift properly. Can be detuned for european trails and still has alot of torque.
Enjoy your horribly responsive bafang, gotta love how the power kicks in half a crank revolution. I'll stick with bosch.
Luna ultra tuned is awesome even at only 1500 watts. Ive had a turbo levo. For me, the m620 is the only way to go. I ride tech singletrack in the pacific northwest. The bikes are barely comparable. Id say see ya later on the trail. And my bike has 10.5 inches rear travel 8 front. Ohlins.
The only time the the response doesn't match input perfectly is if it's in assist level 3-5, thats because it has so much power. that's a good thing.. Just got to ride it properly.
Once it's tuned you have the same réponse time as shimano and bosch
You'd be wrong there.
@@salamelvisual6270 sure it does. Im sure you with some Jacky software and a little knowledge can tune a motor better then a company that has been making ebike motors for decades…
I bet if you bought a KTM or GasGas you could’ve done it in less than 15 seconds.
You have never touched a bicycle and it shows.
Is this still the best motor?
I’m not spending £7k on a bike that shits itself if I decide to derestrict. Bosch and shimano are a joke.
Still is. If your in Australia strongly recommend the Pirez E3 *what they use in the video*
@@unclejohn5012 I’m in the U.K.
Innotech seem to have the best controller from what I’ve read?
@@unclejohn5012 that bike looks good. I’m considering a Dengfu frame or retrofitting with adapter brackets to a older Kenevo.
pls test Bafang M820 thanks!!