How Can You Deny God? Prayers Are Answered! | Jenny - Theist | Talk Heathen 01.01
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2024
- Theist call about the power of prayer.
Talk Heathen 01.01 for November 19, 2017 with Eric Murphy and Jamie.
Call the show on Sundays 1:00-2:00pm CDT: 1-512-686-0279
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Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
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I am an MD specializing in diabetes, I have already had two patients, both pastors, whom I have diagnosed of diabetes type 2. Both refused treatment and chose prayer instead. Both are now dead
Fausto Fernandez daaaaaayyyuumm!
natural selection at its finest
God certainly doesn't work in very mysterious ways
Fausto Fernandez you are not an md
You can look me up in the Commonwealth of VA Board of Health Professions. What makes you think I am not an MD?
My daughter was in a car accident. The doctor said that I should say goodbye to her. Only a 2% chance of living. That was 6 years ago and she is still here. At no time did we thank God, we thanked the doctor who actually saved her.
How nice it must be to have the creator of the universe heal you when billions of other people never get help. That person Must be sooooo special.
It is all about ego. Millions of children die before they even can understand what god is, yet her aunt was healed. Their god is an unimaginable monster, were he to exist.
See Tim Minchin's "Thank you god".
Just like my nutty holier than thou sister who after condemning me to hell for not believing in her gawd told me that she has daily conversations with god,she hears his voice in her head and they just converse. She must be so special. Forgot to mention that after she condemned me to hell she followed it up with,"But I love you". How gracious of her the silly bitch.
Narassitic tendencies most religious people are huge narassists
@bradhollmann5316 these X-tians think they're something special.
"Sometimes you get a 'yes', sometimes you get a 'no', and sometimes you get a 'not right now'."
Funny how these are the exact same results one could expect after praying to a can of baked beans.
Or a coin toss
Magic 8 Ball reasoning.
Unless you're praying to end your hunger. In that case, you still have to take the action of opening and eating the beans.
Depends on what your praying for. The can of baked beans may have a higher likelihood of helping you.
At least baked beans don't threaten you with eternal fire...
Congestive heart failure DOES get better, in certain situations. I ought to know; I had it myself. Once the underlying cause--severe hypertension, in my case--was treated, my heart strengthened again. No prayer required.
So many questions left unanswered here. Did the aunt start eating a healthier diet and develop healthier lifestyle habits? Cardiovascular exercise (simply walking everyday or three times a week) improves cardiovascular strength.
Just doing the general recommendations for diet and lifestyle from the AMA is enough, and unfortunately, not many people do even the minimum of the recommended.
It's funny because if she had bothered to google "Congestice Heart failure treatment" she would see that there are MANY treatments, some which treat under lying causes, as well as ones which directly treat the heart. It's absurd to say that we are unable to apply any medical treatment to Congestive Heart Failure. Her aunt was likely receiving constant treatment.
Ah. But you forget about God's mysterious plan though.
you have to "grinchify of the heart" 8:33 LMAO!!!
Had to look up congested heartfailure and found this
www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide-heart-failure#4 (not saying it's a credible source)
They say that there are treatments that can help, and I should know since my grandpa who is 80 have been following a program given by his doctors to treat his condition. He is currently considered healthy with respect his age.
Stephen Hawking was give three years to live, and lived another 50 or so. Pretty sure no prayers were involved. These things happen.
To be fair, I think his wife at the time was a believer, so there probably were at least a few prayers.
Using her logic, if her example proves god exists, all cases where the patient dies proves god doesn't exist.
Right?
It proves god is weak or evil or lame (if he exists).
Weak: only being able to help a few people.
Evil: being able to help anyone but preferring not too.
Lame: using some stupid rule to worm out of not helping people, like free will or something (free will is an illusion anyway)
Colin Java I don't think lame is an option. I can not justify the amount of pain he would let some endure being justifiable. He is either too weak to help or too evil to care.
Or he does not exist.
No, then it's because god wanted the patient to die. There is no event which disputes her preconceived notion. That is the definition of an unfulsifiable position.
hi Mike , i get your point , if there is a god or gods, very much doubt it . But just
for this argument, we shall say there is , and only sometimes helps , because
he works in mysterious ways , as i have heard , does not prove his nonexistence.
It's amazing how God is so selective in answering prayers, he answers her prayers yet ignores the starving children or the child that's being sexually abused... it's just like he doesn't really exist
"god can change his plan if you can convince him"...haha...that made me giggle out loud..
fekinel I know lol. God's about to tear down the community center but the concerned mothers protest with picket signs and their solidarity makes him realize what a greedy jerk he's been.
But you have to pray in the right way, apparently.
@@SimonAndrews1337 and some times he just says no and destroys that community center anyway
@@SimonAndrews1337 Where in the bible does it describe the right way?
i thought that kind of 'convincing' act is for the devil.....
My mother lived with congestive heart failure for thirty years. It isn’t always fatal if they’re getting good medical treatment.
It says in the Bible that when more than two people pray for something it will come to pass. So can at least two Christians get together and pray to end world hunger? The world thanks you.
Either god doesn't exist. Or Christians don't give a fuck about anyone else. Probably both.
Coy Hampton. 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Christians - good luck with that!!
You did not see the genie episode of X-files did you?
Mulder wishes for peace on Earth.
Next thing he knows he is the only person on Earth.
Providing food for everyone is not the only way to end hungry.
Dont work i swear i did tht when in it. Its not real for shit. Then they will give the, god already has his plan
When she said “He can change his plan, if you convince him its the right thing to do” 😂😂
Nothing fails like prayer I always say
Nothing fails like prayer, except abstinence only sex education. -Jamie
LOL Yep XD
Nothing succeeds like prayer, except chance.
That is a great song by Dan Barker
"God helps those who help themselves"...If you help yourself, then you don't need a god's help.
Qopel while I believe all gods only exist in fantasy, there are many times when a person helping themselves, is still in need of help. ever moved and needed help lifting a heavy dresser? you're moving youself but you still need help. of course not a god
@@steveswangler6373 Right, it’s not a help from god. You didn’t prove me wrong.
Apparently god is so incompetent he needs people to do his miracles for him.
A large study was carried out here in the U.K. a couple of years ago. Patients were interviewed minutes after a medical consultation. On average 50% of the information the doctor thought he had imparted was misunderstood, misinterpreted or just totally forgotten.
Pair that off with a preconception that God is real and good, and suddenly doctors do nothing but monitor someone's condition until God fixes it for them.
Just a nitpick, but aren't misunderstood and misinterpreted the same thing?
misinterpreting would be her stating (attempting to reiterate misunderstood information) that a doctor gave her instruction, but the instruction she then describes wouldn't be the instruction that was given.
misunderstanding doesn't need any further involvement, that's something someone does to themselves. so she could misunderstand the exact same information she is misinterpreting, but reiterating that information to someone else then makes it misinterpreting.
Fergus Denoon. Thanks for the clarification. I would love to claim credit and say that's what I meant all along, but unfortunately it isn't true - I just can't write very accurate English. Good job someone can. Oh, sod it, that's what I meant all along.
People largely hear what they want to hear. That's why it is good to have another person go with you.
Every time I hear about somebody praying, I immediately think of the Magic 8 Ball. Odds of success are nearly identical.
"They're backwards" she said.
Like her primitive jesus religion isn't.
My mum was born with a congenital defect in one of her kidneys, so only one kidney worked. After having 3 kids in her 20's, her blood pressure was high and the doctor's believed the defective kidney had died, so they opened her up to take it out, but discovered it was still alive, so they left it there. Mum stayed on a low-salt diet for the next 40 years to keep her blood pressure under control, but otherwise, lived a normal, active life.
Earlier this year, she went for her annual checkup and it was discovered that her defective kidney was now working perfectly. At 73 years old, her kidneys have never worked better. Doctors said that this was 'a first' for them. How could this be possible if no-one prayed for her kidney? After all, she's not religious. Seems the 'power of not praying' is just as good at producing 'miracles' as the claims of people like this caller.
I'm still waiting for people to pray and BAM......someone grows a new arm or leg.
UHH GOD IS ACTUALLY MYSTERIOUS OR SOMETHING SOOO UHH LOVE JESUS OR ELSE HE WILL FUCKING TORTURE YOU *FOR ETERNITY*
One that grows in the right place.
They have made claims that they have prayed and someone grew back their hand. Of course with no actual proof like a photo or video..
No, that requires Jilly Juice.
Some lizards can grow a new tail, and they don't even need to pray.
It took god 18 years?
Yeah he had others things t do, like watch people die and do nothing or something.
She sounds like my neighbor who got burned real bad and was flown to another state for medical treatment. The claim was "god healed him" So I said " what did the Doctors do, just stand around with their hands in their pockets"? I also said, "well next time that happens, stay home then and see how long you last" Wow, it just amazes me how stupid we Americans are.
Harry Gearhart That's cruel! How could you say such a thing....GOOD IDEA.
@Mr Edlav you are not alone. just look to the middle east. way more religious retards there. and highly explosive, too.
You need to follow my Grandpa's nugget of wisdom: "Just when you thought you had the heard the stupidest thing, ever uttered by a person, the next guy walks in and opens his mouth." That's why I'm never amazed at the depth of stupidity of my fellow man.
No wonder the extreme right targeted evangelicals. They are so easy to manipulate. Even into voting against their own interest. Common sense would tell you that an evangelical doctor presented with a patient that they couldn't help would advise them to stop seeking treatment and go home and pray. That's if they believed their own BS which they don't. They would have their medical licenses revoked in a heartbeat.
Not just americans dude
I have seen prayer fail right before my eyes more times than I could count.
LOL... I have heart failure. In fact, I've had two valves replaced. For her to say there is no medical treatment that can improve the function of the heart is completely wrong.
Greg Royse well.. she is a moron
Greg Royse
Oh my god people pay attention, she said her aunt didn't have any surgery to repair her heart.
I had two problems - first I had endocarditis which is an infection of the heart valve. That was repaired by surgery. Secondly, I had heart failure - caused by the endocarditis. The surgery didn't repair the heart failure... that is something different. Medication is used to "repair" heart failure... not surgery. My heart failure will never "go away." And it won't ever (at least not in the near future) be repaired by surgery. But medicine WILL improve my condition and extend my life significantly. Perhaps I should have clarified.
OMG people just want to believe what they want to believe... forget the facts.
Science and medicine FTW
Greg Royse yes! My husband finally had a heart transplant. This women is clueless about heart problems.
They really missed some vital questions on this.
The doctors must have been absolutely flabbergasted. The aunt must feature in loads of medical text books. Presumably she’d have been the subject of many medical investigations by doctors who were desperate to find out how this miracle healing happened......
The question is " Is it possible to achieve the same outcome without prayer?" and
"how do we know it is prayer that worked and not something else?"
I had severe dandruff as a teenager and I prayed to god for it to be cured. I’m 74 now and bald as a billiard ball, truly the lord works in wondrous ways - thank you god!
You are dandruff free, free of the affliction that every teen goes though
IT'S A MIRACLE, praise his mighty name
someone i feel God should have a dandruff commercial
LOL
Like at the end when the girl has silky smooth and biblically perfect and shiny hair,
sort of like what Zipporah (what you may call Sephora) had in 10 commandments
when you consider she lived in the desert and tended to sheep all day
she had amazingly healthy hair and shiny not full of dust at all
I'm truly concerned how people are so confused about logic and reason. I'll pray for them...lol
Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes not right now. That's not a god. That's a Magic 8 Ball.
If that's the case why doesn't God heal those praying sick and terminally ill children at the Children Hospital?? All B.S
FELIX McClurkin Those kids are obviously less important than Jenny's stupid aunt or mom or whatever.
I feel the same way.😏✌
FELIX McClurkin
Want the best proof that god isnt real?
Im praying that stupid people like jenny, can become intellectually capable of thinking properly.
.......
He's time just to put the disease there, but when a child needs healing, he has no time for that cos he's watching porn and priests molesting kids.
If so,christens should be out side the hospital praying and praying for them if it works.....I know I would
what was god doing for the 18 years prior to the healing?
the caller is simply wrong. Many people live with congestive heart failure for decades as there are many available treatments and living techniques for dealing with the disease. It cannot be cured, but can be treated. I think the guys here missed the mark, because they did not ask enough questions.
20 years ago I was diagnosed with stomach cancer and given three months to live. Coincidentally my doctor's sister, who is also a doctor, was also diagnosed with the same thing. She decided to go down holistic/religious path, I went with an experimental chemotherapy. I'm still here, the doctors sister died within 6 months leaving two small children. BTW, I'm the atheist son of a baptism minister
“You’re supposed to pray in a certain way..”
Ahh
Bryan G my reaction to that: “🅱️OI!!!”
No wonder my ferrari hasn't arrived yet.
Bryan G. 😄😄😄😄
How do we figure out that certain way lol
I love it when you take them out with one simple argument and you can hear them sigh before you finish because they know they're in over their head
i knew more than 5 relatives who had their legs cut off due to diabetic and christains came and prayed many times but their legs never grow back wtf
They didn't pray to the one true god Xenu. Or is it Krishna? I forget
You need to send a complaint to customer service. Don't expect to hear anything for a few thousand years.
Pray harder, guy.
Did they starve themselves and babble incoherently? Did they frighten everyone in the room? Did anyone faint? God's insane, so maybe he responds better to that stuff.
Paul Soumwei. 😄😄😄😄
"If he dies it's your fault, if he lives it's a miracle"
He cured her old aunt but let 32,000 children die today of starvation. God is awesome. Psychologically all religious people are some type of narcissist, liars or both.
I had a heartattack & lost one third of my heart. Over the year's, it's re-grown. It was explained to me, that it's like a Dam in a river, and new tributary's are created over time..... I never prayed nor had anyone pray for me.... Just got on with my life and slowly built up my strength...... The body does repair it's self..... Prayer's have now't to do with it. OH, I also had an "Out of Body experiance" and watched the Doctor's & Nurse's in the hospital working franticly to keep me alive. Never been so calm in my life, looking down from above at thing's I could not see from my bed. Didn't see God, Jesus or Angle's, just my Nurses & Doctor's.
Why God doesn't heal amputees?
Or blind people,esp blind children.
Because limbs and eyes dont grow back you dummy. You didnt know that? What do you think god is? God?
The Fourth Member of Migos yeah I'm sure there are no Christian amputees out there at all amongst the millions of amputees.....uh huh.
The Fourth Member of Migos so all the amputees who came back from Vietnam, none of them were Christian huh? Or better yet World War II. None of the amputees that came back from World War II were christian huh?
inertiaforce pahahaha
God's plan for an infant to die?
God - "Yo, carry this kid for 9 months in your womb. I got an awesome prank planned".
don't forget that book endorses slavery, folks
A common lineup of the seven ancient wonders of the world.
Taurus = the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus (Monday).
Gemini = the Mausoleum at Halicarnassus (Tuesday).
Cancer - = the Great Pyramid at Giza, Egypt (Wednesday).
Leo = the Statue of Zeus at Olympia, Greece (Thursday).
Virgo = the Hanging Gardens of Babylon (Friday).
Libra = the Colossus of Rhodes (Saturday).
Scorpio = the Lighthouse at Alexandria, Egypt (Sunday).
Scorpio (the secret/sacred/sex) sign is where the Goddess Inanna removed her last vestige of modesty and her secret part lights up the world.
Haven't got a clue what you're on about, Gerald.
It also endorses genocide, rape, pillaging, murdering people for eating @ Red Lobster, & forcing pregnant women to drink potentially lethal liquid to prove she kept her marriage vows (considered being cursed if the fetus doesn't live through whatever diseases the mom aquires, and being ostracized or murdered.)
Christopher Ian Lister
I look at it like it was written by left wing and Right wing writers. (NOT ACTUALLY, just an example). If a book has a number of different writers it's not going to have the same flow all the way through. Still not a great read either way. Some good stuff and some bad stuff. If you can get something actually good out of it all the power to you. (again not YOU you)
coolfosterdad I watched the video you referred too and he ONLY references the passages referring to Hebrew servants NOT slaves from conquered/foreign lands..good try though..guess you and he can’t read either?
No physician, of any discipline, would ever give a prognosis of '10 years to live'
Doctors and nurses treat chf all of the time. Jenny has a misunderstanding of CHF treatment and prognosis.
But it has a scary sounding name so it must be something that has no treatment.
They should have Googled the condition rather than that prayer baby article. Also, rather than comparing different prayer or faith healing, they should have just asked if it's possible that what happened to her aunt could also have happened to someone who was never prayed for at all. Which, from these comments, happens relatively frequently.
One time I had a major hangover and with aspirin, water, sleep, and prayer my hangover went away. So what else made it go away besides the prayer? 😯😯
Prayer: lets flip a coin shall we ... it's the same thing !!. Listening to these deluded callers is simply painful ... their ignorance is mind blowing.
God DOES answer prayers.
And the answer so far, as far as we can tell, has been “no.”
I always wonder if Theists see one person being prayed for and recovering is prove for a God what is the millions of people who are prayed over and die anyWAY prove of?
King of the Castle VIII posting a comment just to claim victim-hood from hypothetical Atheists speaks volumes of where a conversation with you will go. With all do respect I'm not interested in feeding your self-created martyrdom
Their logic is that God's answer to prayer is either yes, no, or wait. It's a perfect explanation to them because it's unfalsifiable.
That would tecnicly be satan i would say loool 😁
But wait a minut, is he knowen to accually kill people like god does ? Lol
I mean god must have had a busy day when he made the tlooting at time of moses.
He killed between 170 to 300 MILLIONS people who by statictis lived back then
I had cancer at 20. Had plenty of people surround me and pray. Yeah, thank god for all the misery of chemo he spared me. Remind me to sing his praises when I stand before him.
Nothing fails like prayer
"The preacher said a prayer, save every single hair on his head. He's dead."-ELP
Do you believe God makes you breathe? Why did he lose 6 million jews?
I like the show but holy crap, these guys aren't the fastest thinkers. I'm not expecting them to be Matt Dillahunty fast, but they should practice their debating skills and have a go-to arsenal of better arguments. Sorry for the harsh criticism, but it's a little tough love. Thank you for putting on the show and look forward to many more broadcasts from you!
I agree with you. This was an easy debate and debunking her arguments are simple. But they seemed to struggle with it a bit. Matt Dillahunty would have shut that shit down in 60 seconds.
Matt is awesome but he does come on strong and talks fast and uses big words and highly logical statements which the callers may not be used to. He easily loses his callers because they aren't too bright. I think its refreshing to see a show host talk slower and more on the caller's level.
I was thinking this too. I actually cringed a few times at their responses and felt they were going the wrong way about it. the obvious response to the first thing she said was to talk about the statistics of prayer vs non prayer and people who get better vs people who don't get better and talk about whether or not there's any correlation. but they seemed very unsure of themselves, I suppose its unfair to compare them to a veteran like matt, they may be novices and I still do like what they do and hope they get better
I sincerely doubt that these guys are as learned in debating tactics or as knowledgeable as any the host on AXP. It’s a newer show and they will learn to establish their position and reasoning better as time goes along. I like the fact more shows are branching out. Just give them some time. It’s easy to criticize from an armchair.
Dragofire armchair or not, does that invalidate my comment in any way?
LOL...the almighty perfect god will just "change his mind" about his divine plan, just because some stupid human, who can't see the future like god does, asks him to change his mind. WTF? If everything goes by god's plan then there can't be free will.
So many damn flaws and she's blind to them all, the human can be amazingly stupid.
"Sometimes you get a yes, sometimes you get a no, sometimes you get a not right now" it's almost like it's totally random and not actually dependent on if you pray (well enough) or not
I could give the same testimony for myself and give thanks to a toaster. I just can't show you how it worked, but no one else can explain it so...
All Hail the Holy jesus toaster!!! (it's real --> imgflip.com/i/21uvp4 )
It wasn't the toaster, it was the toast.
Haven't you seen Jesus' image on a piece of toast? What more do you need?
Google 'Jesus toaster'
“My aunts not a very nice person so maybe he should choose the baby...”
Classic!
I had an aunt who lost her leg in an automobile accident. Out whole church prayed for her over many months. After a long recovery program, her leg grew back.
This is a lot more common than people think.
I knew someone who needed potatoes and the next year he grew loads.
Even though i find it amazing that her leg actually grew back.
Operative words RECOVERY PROGRAM
not.... PRAYER SESSION
A Leg growing back is a Regenerative Process (in most cases no possible in humans)
Prayer does not induce regeneration in cells
@@oldbatwit5102POV: Auntie is a starfish
@@martinkulizawhy not? Surely the creator of the universe can create a new leg?
@@Vaidelotelis
OK. Do you really believe the creator of the universe re grew her leg.
As for the WHY NOT ?
Because i'm a Paramedic, and i see this stuff, and i know what happens and what doesn't
Now.. O.P. SAID
"AUNT LOST HER LEG IN AUTOMOBILE ACCIDENT"
1. LOST MEANS... GONE, it means she is permanently without a leg
(But... Let's allow for common speak and that she's not a medical professional)
2. What does (In her Common Speak) Lost Leg, mean ?
Does it mean, Severed at the Hip, does it mean that the Femoral head separated from the Acetubulum.
is the Femoral head broken ?
Or did it break at the body of the Femur, so.. Lost leg from the femur Down (which is common).
so.. if this happened, Your leg is not going to grow back .
or, was the leg broken from the knee cap and therefore lost from the knee cap down,
Was the Tibia or Fibia broken or both ? or was the leg stuck under one of the pedals and from the forward motion got broken at the ankle
or... Did the leg not get broken at all, but instead the Ligament of the head of the femur was torn completely,
and then this is interpreted (As a result of no use of the leg) as... She LOST her leg.
in this case.... It would regenerate over time
What exactly did she mean by , Lost her Leg
But think about this..... From time to time you have leg amputee's
WHY DOES THEIR LEG NOT GROW BACK do you think ?
if Entire legs could grow back there would be no need to manufacture Prosthetics
so that's why ?
BECAUSE I HAVE ACTUAL MEDICAL TRAINING AND EXPERIENCE THAT TELLS ME AS SUCH.
I'd be really interested to know exactly what injury was suffered and to read the hospital report upon admission.
Can the creator of the universe re create a leg
SURE...
1. If he exists
2. if he actually created the universe, it follows that he could re create a mere leg
ALTHOUGH
YOU DON'T KNOW IF HE EXISTS
IF HE EXISTS, YOU DON'T KNOW IF HE CARES TO BOTHER TO REPAIR THE LEG.
but here is one we do know
THE BIBLE ISN'T GOD'S WORD
and as such whatever you think you know about god, isn't actually true.
that's not to say god doesn't exist,
it's to say.. LET'S BE REAL ABOUT WHAT YOU KNOW
the origin of the universe for you COME FROM THE BIBLE (Therefore that's incorrect)
Your understanding of god COMES FROM THE BIBLE (Therefore that's incorrect)
IT WOULD BE SMARTER OF YOU
1. To put down the bible
2. Separate yourself from religion
3. THEN.... PRAY TO GOD DIRECTLY
4. PRAY TO JESUS DIRECTLY
5. RESEARCH THE LIFE OF JESUS (Why christians don't do this i'll never understand)
but yeah mate....
I have medical Experience
I have over 20 years religious experience (As an Ordained Minister)
A LEG COMPLETELY DISCONNECTED AND LOST IN A CAR ACCIDENT
The Most probable scenario is..... THE LEG IS NOT GROWNG BACK.
If you want to say it did, I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to read that report and speak to the doctor.
for me, that would be really interesting
BUT NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND has a doctor returned to an amputee to find the leg unexplainably grew back
THAT HAS NEVER HAPPENED
Prayer also, doesn't heal an amputated leg
so.. do you really believe that god regrew the leg
IF SO , TELL ME WHY OR HOW
"Prayers are answered my aunt had heart issues and she's healed!1!1!1!1"
Good job you just identified that our bodies are ridiculously weird and able to heal with no explanation
I'm willing to bet that the doctors did give her orders, maybe foods to avoid and ones to eat, behaviors to do and not to do. Even if there isn't a drug to fix something there can be things you can do that increases your chances of recovery
- The baby died.
- Well, God only helps those who help themselves.
WHAT?
Why is it that 99% of our prayers are not answered? This world would be a paradise if all our prayers are answered.
Jose Kariamadam do you really believe that? you really think we'd live in a paradise if a scumbag like trump or pence or putin had their prayers answered?
why isn't this major news to all of the world
You two are very kind to this poor lady. I wouldn't suggest you should be otherwise - it's just a positive observation.
Without knowing the particulars of the aunt’s condition, I would suggest to the caller that there is a chance that her condition was not as serious as predicted or that sometimes people respond better than others. For example, if 1000 lab mice with CHF were prayed over and one survived, would that be a miracle or just chance?
Nah, she and her aunt are obviously special and her god only lets those babies die that really deserved it.
More likely is that her aunt reached an age where she began to grow ancillary arteries that fed more oxygen to her cardiac muscles and they were able to recover some function. The caller and her aunt just don't understand physiology.
I agree and giving 10 years is fairly generous for a terminal ilness. That's 10 years minimum when they usually give 3 or 4 max.
@@Goettel She also implied it may have been the child's parents that deserved punishment by the death of their child.
@@nBasedAce
Wrong & wrong. Google it for 5 minutes.
12:50
Jenny: "Everything is God's plan."
Jamie: "...Then why do people pray to God to ask him to do something specifically?..."
Jenny: "Because he can change his plan if you can convince him it's the right thing to do..."
OK: So, we're to believe that there's this all-powerful deity in charge of everything, and he has a comprehensive, perfect plan for the universe (a plan that requires 3-day-old babies to die, apparently), but he'll change this astronomically-complex plan of his just for YOU....? Because YOU have some power of persuasion over this supreme being that assumedly others (like the parents of aforementioned 3-day-old infant) do not...?
My word, but how egotistical is that...?
People like this vote. That's scary.
These guys are so mellow that it's practically an SNL skit.
God heals, but she still kept going back to the doctor "many many times"
I love the softness Jamie brings to the conversation. I usually love the routes that he chooses to go with conversation, but this time i was thinking “no matter who prays to
Who she is going to say that god intercepted the message and helped” so
When Erik took over and
Mentioned the baby dying I was like “exactly!! That’s the answer to the “someone’s
Prayer was
Answered”
Crap cause NO ONE prayed for
That baby to die” but then Jamie redeemed his argument with the “why couldn’t god save the baby,
Why doesn’t he have to choose” response, brilliant job guys
Future tip guys especially Eric. Don’t be bashful and speak up! You guys are too nice! Lol
the christian mindset: a hurricane passes through, 20 people are killed. Searchers find one person in the rubble that's still alive. It's a miracle!
Muslim god and Christian god are not the same. If praying works every time why does anyone go to the doctor at all? Because religious people know deep down inside that there might not be a god. So they better take medicine or they might die.
She could have not been told the whole story. Maybe her family left some parts off. She said it was her aunt right? Was she alive then? Getting the story from a 3rd party there are usually pieces left out.
It's the same god. The god of Abraham.
Please God if you exist, I beg you from all my heart, don't let this prayer appear on UA-cam comments. This will be for me the ultimate proof that you exist and I will worship you until I die. Thanks.
Occam's razor is a bit complicated. I would have gone with "Even if there is no medical reason, that doesn't mean that it was god or prayer." You can't just say it was god just because you don't know what it was. Plus, having something happen is not proof of why it happened. She got better. Absolutely nothing in the event as described proves it was a god.
If a priest walked into a random hospital and prayed over all the patients, and then they all were healed (ok, maybe some of them) and just one regrew a severed limb, then at least there would be evidence that something unusual happened, but it still would not be evidence that it was that priests god. They cannot even do the first part of that.
You can't explain Occam's to someone w/ 4th grade education.
A guy at the church I formerly attended fell off a roof and broke his back, lost the use of his legs... A bunch of us sincerely thought God would heal him... well he's still paralyzed, 5 years later. I'm glad I don't think this way anymore! That incident was one of the pieces to my de conversion puzzle.
God cares for her aunt but not the praying mothers to all those millions of children starving to death each year? There's something very self-centered about these religious people. Like when a tennis-player looks at the sky and thanks God when he won the game, totally forgetting there was someone he played with. Christian love I guess.
Yea,seen a darts player the other day on tv after beating his opponent do just that.very common with sportspeople,their god has his priorities right.
Norman Neskio I always say that, when a player points to the sky or in a post game interview thanks god, i'm like you are seriously thanking a being you believe exists and helped you win the game but screwed over the other team that had players and fans praying. all the while ignoring the millions of "his" children suffering from war, famine, sexual abuse, neglect, disease, etc. to help you score and/or win. that's one helluva god there.
because god gives a f*ck about who won that match, while millions of children die each year of easily preventable diseases before they even get to the age where they can be indoctrinated.
I like Matt’s way of dealing with these callers
"I suppose that might still work"
I physically cringed.
I love this show.
This is a perfect conversation showing that a universe which has a god and a universe that doesn't are completely indistinguishable.
Congestive Heart Failure (CHF) can be managed through exercises in moderation where patients' symptoms are closely monitored and exercise frequencies/intensities can be slowly progressed based on patients' activity tolerance. I'm graduating with a DPT in less than 1 month and have experienced with numerous patients with CHF and have implemented controlled exercise as part of their plan of care with success, in other words, symptoms such as peripheral edema and shortness breath upon exertion decreasing. As far as an echocardiogram results, I completed my clinical rotation at that facility and was on to the next, so did not get to follow-up on their progress thereafter.
Tim Minchin's song, Thank you God. Worth a listen!
Liz Hughes Brilliantly exposes the lunacy of such interventions
So, why don't you ask why god gave a 17 year old heart problems? It was god that did that, wasn't it?
+ Hammer
No, that is why "godding" is such a great gig! You set your own hours, and make your own rules, and get credit for every good thing and no blame for anything bad. And even when you do something horrible, It's called "good" because you did it! No wonder this god is a jealous god - who would want anyone else horning in on such a fantastic job?
Pat Doyle I know this is very late - but that was brilliant!
Prayer: because an all loving god gets off on making people beg.
Gotta love the argument from ignorance right off the bat as well. "god healed my aunt" - "why do you believe that?" - "well what else could it be??"
What is it when you pray and they don't get better?
6chhelipilot it's the magic cheese toast saying no. Oops, I mean it's God saying no.
Christians love to dance around answering questions directly. Because they understand that logic and facts puts their faith in check.
GOD WOULD NOT NEED TO BE PRAYED TO TO HEAL HER IF HE DIDNT GIVE HER THE HEART ISSUES TO BEGIN WITH
God answers her prayers but not those from the 25,000+ ppl who he allows to die every day from starvation… She’s special…
Congestive heart failure is when there is fluid pressuring the heart. The immediate treatment is with diuretics.
The more you know. -Jamie
Agreed in part. Fluid overload is what causes CHF and can be treated successfully with diuretics. It can be treated even better with diet modification. And it can be reversed. I have patients who fall in this category. The heart is like any muscle. And just like dancers can stretch their muscles to allow for increased mobility, the heart can stretch. But as skeletal muscles that aren't stretched regularly return to their previous length, so can the heart. Keep in mind the muscles of the heart are histological different than skeletal muscle.
I have a friend who had congestive heart failure. He was told he had 5 years to live, 10 at the most if he responded to drug treatment. He decided if he was going to go out, he was going to have a good time in the meantime. So he started doing meth... after about a year of that, his congestive heart failure is completely reversed. Why? Because methamphetamines are hardcore diuretics. LMFAO! Now, I don't recommend anyone with a heart condition start doing meth, but this just illustrates the point... drugs can "cure" lots of conditions without surgery.
Ron Coy God works in mysterious ways. LoL
I love that little back and forth at 2:35 it's like okay which one of us is gonna tear her to shreds, you? Ah no I went last time it's your turn.
When you get these simpletons refer them to The Templeton foundation prayer studies that show the lack of the effectiveness of prayer across the board .
MacheteDontTweet your wrong look at the oldest healthiest people on the planet. All are religious married. Atheists don’t live near as happy or healthy lives
Justin Jones , and what does that have to do with the fact that "prayer studies" show no efficacy , and often that prayer has a negative impact on medical outcome? And which religion are these "oldest healthiest " persons members of ? The Japanese have the longest life span on average , and one of the most secular societies . What the data support is that a live style without of what is called "The western diet" leads to longevity . This is shown in the traditional Japanese diet, the Mediterranean diet , as well as Eastern European diets . Add Mcdonalds , Kentucky fried chicken , processed foods , booze and cigarettes people die at the same western rates . Research done in Okinawa showed a marked increase in obesity and heart disease rates with the introduction of western diet items . Further , Google life expectancy in the USA , you will clearly see that the states with the most religiosity has the shortest life expectancy as well as the highest infant mortality rates . Opinions are only valid when backed by empirical data. Feelings mean nothing .
An in door cat also lives longer
justin jones Citation needed.
+justin jones
False.
In my 20s I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. In my 40s my current dr retested my and I had no signs of rheumatoid. I guess all the swearing and drinking healed me.
If prayer really worked Tim Tebow would be a starting quarterback in the NFL. check and mate.
The hoops people jump through to enable their delusion is staggering. These guys are so well prepared and patient. I learn way more than just content from these videos. Carry on.
tell all the young children that die of cancer and starvation every day and their parents pray
this woman has her morality so warped.
My parent's pastor's 14 year old daughter was diagnosed with cancer. After surgery and treatment it went into remission. They said it was because family and friends prayed day and night. A year later I (who was 28 at the time) was diagnosed with cancer, after surgery and treatment my cancer also went into remission. I asked my parents why my cancer went into remission when I'm an Atheist when her cancer went into remission apparently due almost entirely to prayer? They answered "cause WE prayed for you". Another year passed and the now 16 year old daughter of the pastor's cancer resurfaced and over the course of 8 months wound up taking it's toll and she unfortunately passed away. That was 8 years ago now and my cancer has not come back and I am healthier than ever and still an Atheist. When I asked my mother one day why her God would do this to a devout God loving child and not an adult Atheist she simply said "God had a plan for her". That's my biggest problem with religion, it all comes down to "God's divine plan" to which I say "If your God's plan involves the death of children and innocent people than they are an evil God. And if you truly, honestly believe she's in a better place then stop mourning and be glad she was "chosen by God" or whatever other reason you can explain her cancer. Also, why did your God listen to your prayers the first time and not the second time?!? was his plan to kill her the second time around? Is it some sort of time sensitive goal of his?"
god of the gaps fallacy.
or even the argument from ignorance.
It's even worse than that, her argument is, if X then Y. Not only was there no evidence for X, but also a coherent causal link wasn't constructed, in other words, she failed in ALL the possible steps.
Is anybody else humming "Thank you god, for healing the cataracts of Sam's mom"?
pla1nswalk3r Absolutely! It brilliantly exposes the lunacy of such ‘miracles’
What a waste of a call. She literally said "it's the will of God" and you have to "convince him to do what's right" my goodness that is downright disgusting
Templeton Foundation study. Prayer has the same chance as random occasion.
Those being prayed over who KNOW about the prayers actually less chance do to stress.
100 bucks says the caller Jenny also believes you get a cold from the cold.
Devout africans are starving, ill, poor and in need or resources....but God ignored them to fix her aunt’s heart