Using a snake splitter to send a signal to FOH and monitors at the same time
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- Опубліковано 20 чер 2016
- Getting a signal from a microphone or instrument to FOH and monitors (at the same time) requires some type of signal splitter.
There are a few ways to accomplish splitting a signal to more than one destination. This video looks at the snake splitter as one of the options.
Snake splitter feeds should be long enough to allow for the monitor console to be located near the splitter snake head.
It's so nice when you can have digital consoles with one stagebox that sends two digital MADI feeds over twisted pair (Ethernet), and you run one MADI to the front of house console, and the other MADI to the monitor console, and just duplicate the patches.
A lot of folks, including myself who do large scale production, still tend to opt with an analog split to avoid gain sharing issues. Just saying! I always joke, we have $25,000 of Vi stageboxes but $500 of analog splits that do the bulk of the work.
Thanks for this! Really neat to see someone actually explain how this all hooks up. Knew it on paper but it's good to see it.
What does the return on the snake do exactly and what is it hooked up to?
Thanks!
The returns on snakes are used to "return" the signals from the FOH console or cross-over to the FOH and monitor amplifiers, which drive the FOH and monitor speakers. Some snakes have more "returns" than others. A return can carry a full-range signal or if using a crossover, 1 x return channel can carry the low signal, and another channel can carry the mid/high signal. If using monitors (for example 4 x monitor channels), you would need 4 separate returns to send the separate signals back to the monitor amplifiers. Lower channel count snakes usually have 4 to 6 returns, mid-channel snakes (around 32 channels) usually have 8 to 12 returns. Large channel count snakes (around 40) will have at least 12 to 16 returns.
Thank you for your comment.
Hii sir what is a fuction output snake box ?@@stageleftaudio
@@blacklistYT1 Hello - I am not sure of the question you are asking...
Exellent 😊
Thank god for the DANTE and similiar protocols. We (even we are very small live streaming "company"/group of friends), DANTE saved us a lot of money, time and work with even in not-so-difficult situations. Transfering all the audio channels & video streams to multiple destinations over 1 ethernet or fiber is now much more practical and so much easy to set up. (compared with this massive sneak cable). :) But it's somehow much more satisfying to see this massive analog snake.
Thanks for the comment. Audio networking is great. The protocols seem stable, but (at least on the AVB side, and in my opinion), the AVB components don't appear to be yet at a complete stable state. Seems to be a good amount of firmware upgrades for the hardware that are needed. Though for us, the expense of deploying a full digital solution is very expensive, factoring redundancy and providing a good infrastructure for the networking equipment to operate in. We'll always use analog; it's about 1/10 the price for a full digital AVB solution. For networking, if prices come down and stability goes up, we'll move to full digital.
Thanks Master for your time !!!! I want to know if I have two power mains and two power monitors and a 100' snake, if I can use the snake returns to put the power mains and the power monitors and don't damage the gear?
Hello - Looks like you are wanting to use a snake to carry amplified signals to passive speakers...? Is this correct? If so, it's not a good idea to run amplifier wattage through snakes (unless the snake is made to carry amplified levels). The size of the wire in a snake can cause a huge amount of resistance for the amplifier to "push" a signal through. It may work, but the amplifier will be using a lot power to drive wattage though a lot of resistance. The amplifier efficiency would drop, the resulting watts would be noticeably lower and there's the possibility of burning up an amplifier. it's risky to do.
stageleftaudio thanks for your time, No, the speakers are powered and the monitors are powered too
Now I am more confused than ever before. I figure he forgot to mentioned some important stuffs in regard to monitor channel.
Wait, is this how they also record live shows? They must have here way splitters or two or more splitters all splitting away... One for FOH, one for monitors, one for recording, one for.....
Yes. Though, there is a little more involved with providing feeds for other targets than monitors. There are splitter units (usually rackmounted and with high channel counts) that are "isolated transformer" splitters. These can send a signal to many places. Many "basic" isolation transformer splitters can support 3 separate splits (i.e. monitor, live broadcast, recording). The more splits that need to take place usually equates to a much greater cost, especially if using isolation transformers!
For the digital world, it's a different methodology and is a bit more expensive.
If I use this with my nice apogee, audio interface, to split the signals to a separate mixer for headphone monitoring, is there any chance this would degrade my quality in Recording signal?
We don't do recording, so I can't say for sure if there would be any degradation that could impact a recording. However, I doubt that even a slight amount of degradation would present any issues, especially with higher quality consoles. The impedance of many good consoles can support a lower microphone impedance (if any, from mic splitters). We have never experienced any sound quality (or level) issues when using the splitter. Our observations were from a live sound perspective.
Hi Bob
Do you have isolation transformers in your splitter box ?
Hello! There are no isolation transformers in the splitter.
Do you go from the counsel to the crossovers and amps. Or frome crossover to amps. ????
Signal path would be console ---> crossover ----> amps.
OK, this was great, but you stopped before my question could be answered. I am working live sound as a gig, and want to rise up through the local scene, but I am stumped. I go to big shows often and see the monitoring engineer working with the bands, and I know each monitor has its own personal mix. To be more exact, I have wondered about big shows and the monitoring board out puts, leading to the monitors. There must be a board that has up to 10 out puts like "main out puts" feeding the monitors, right? I mean, how else would they manage to feed so many unique, separate mixes? Thanks for answering my question as I hope to take this live sound work as far as I can.
If you are using an analog board, there are two different types. Some boards are dedicated for monitor use and have all the outputs needed to support a large monitor mix. Other boards are called "dual-function" - they can be used for FOH or specifically for monitor use. Dual-function boards have a switch on them that switch the functionality of the AUX sends and sub-GROUP controls from their normal use... over to a "monitor" use. For example, a dual-function console with 4-subgroups and a left/right/center (LRC) FOH output can be converted to a 6-channel monitor send console . The 4 subgroups and the L and R FOH outputs would be used for the 6 monitor mixes (the center channel is not really used for a monitor send). Therefore, all channels coming into the monitor board could be mixed into any of the 6 outputs. The sends on the rear of the board (for subgroups and L/R) become the monitor send outputs. The subgroup and L/R faders become the master fade sends when in monitor mode. For dual-function analog boards, the number of monitor channels (sends) available is dependent on the number of subgroups on the console along with the Left and Right output. The Soundcraft and Allen&Heath boards we use (and what is shown in our videos) are both dual-function boards.
Many digital boards have about 14 outputs on them that can be programmed for whatever the need is. These outputs can be programmed to be all monitor sends if needed.
In-ear systems, such as Aviom can support a very high number of monitor channels, but this option is very expensive. Aviom systems are a different way of providing monitors.
I see. Wow, thank you so much for the information. I don't have anyone I know in the field, so I sort of go it alone. I wish I had someone in the business to show me the ropes. This is just what I needed! Perhaps its time I take a close look at the different types of consoles. Maybe its time to find someone in the biz to shadow. Hey, thank you again for explaining this. You really helped me.
You are welcome. There's a lot to know.
If you're looking to get a digital desk look into the SI Impact and a CBI split. Stay away from the cheap stuff.
One of the smaller acts I work with just got a cheaper unit, but it works great for what they do. It would never, never, never work in a big context or a festival type set up. Thanks for the tip.
Do you use multipin connectors? I see one band, they got stagebox with 24 XLR and side have two 80 pin connectors, other for FOH and other to monitor-system. and both end got also multipin-connector, so no niid plug and unplug XLR-connectors.
We do not use multi-pin connectors. They are great to use, but require some extra care when using.
@@stageleftaudio I'm thinking to start using them, are there some troublemaking in those connectors? What I think does they add background noise/hum or something.
Multi-pin connectors require extra care/attention when connecting them to stage boxes or fan-outs. For example, if a pin gets bent in the connector, it could disable the entire cable. Also, there can be issues with connecting the connectors to the stage boxes if the connectors are the screw-on type. It's easy to strip the threads on these type of connectors. If other people will be using these connectors (to help setup), they will need to be trained how to properly attach the cables.
Multi-pin connectors are convenient, but require special attention. A properly built multi-pin cable will NOT produce any hum/noise.
@@stageleftaudio Thank you for the answer. :) Your videos are fun to watch!
The most confusing video on utube don't get me wrong that's how our band does it but if I explained like that everyone head would be spinning
WOW
I'm not alone...
Stupid question.. does using a splitter snake reduce the voltage by 50%? And if so, how does that affect the preamps on the other side? Do you have to use 50% more gain?
No discernible drop in signal level, especially when it is just a 2-way split (as in the video). If you were to split a signal by maybe 10 times, there would probably be a noticeable drop in signal level. Passive splitters (referenced in the video) are extremely common and do not present issues with signal degradation.
@@stageleftaudio thanks for the reply and info!
Is there a possibility of malfunction or burning in FOH board if I use phantom power on Monitor Console?
It really depends on the FOH console. Older models of consoles may have issues with phantom power on the inputs, also, if the console does NOT have a phantom power option, it's possible phantom power (from a monitor console) could cause issues. Under normal conditions, most consoles do not care where the phantom power comes from.
yes
does the spilter pass phantom power through it I'm pretty sure it doesn't but to make sure
Yes, it does. However, only one console (either FOH or monitor) should be running phantom power. It's more common for the monitor board to provided the phantom power.
If you are needing a splitter to specifically not allow phantom power, isolation units (aka ISO) are the way to go. ISO units can sometimes split a signal 4 ways. Though, they can be rather expensive.
Have u used phantom power through your's i almost bought the ewi spilter i have some single stage boxs from there
Yes. We use the phantom power from our monitor board (when providing separate monitors) to power the condensors and DI boxes. The FOH board doesn't care how the mics get powered... just as long there is power to them.
I have a regular snake.can i technickly modified it into dual output to FOH and stage monitor mixer?
You may have to use "Y" splitters on all mics/inputs that need to be routed to FOH and monitors; basically, 1/2 your inputs would be used for monitors while the other half is used for FOH. I would not recommend it.
How to rekomended for mixer monitoring and foh sir ?@@stageleftaudio
@@blacklistYT1 What is your question?
but if you use a simple splitter for front and monitor, you can't setup each monitor for every single musician, right? I mean, the bassman needs louder drums, the singer louder piano aso...
The number of monitor channels is dependent on the mixer. Some FOH and monitor consoles have many aux. sends, which can support a large number of monitor channels. A splitter just sends one signal to 2 places (i.e. to FOH and MON). A splitter snake does not determine how many monitor sends are available; the type of monitor console used determines the number of monitor channels.
is the splitter snake transformer isolated?
No.
I would like to know how to hook a DVD player to the stage snakes
Terry
Just like the smart phone, a DVD player needs to connect into a console. The console will amplify the low-level signals from the DVD player. Treat the DVD player as another input on the console.
Can I send powered speakers into the return on a snake and then to a mixer at FOH? Please help!
I am not sure what your question is. What you are describing does not make sense. Can you elaborate.
@@stageleftaudio I have 2 active speakers on a stage. I connect these straight into a mixer which is placed directly on the side of the stage. However, I desire to move the mixer all the way behind the audience instead of to the left of the stage.
My dilemma: the back of the audience is about 100 feet away from the 2 active speakers.
Question: can I plug my 2 active speakers into a snake and feed the snake to the mixer in the back? Or will my active speakers be too strong for the snake? Does this make sense?
Yes, your active speakers can be connected to a snake. The only thing traveling through the snake is a signal level; this is what snakes are made to do. All of the shows we do (and we have videos of many of these shows) where we are using active speakers at the stage, are setup using a snake with the mixing console about 100 feet out front of the stage.
What the price bro
We are unable to discuss prices/costs related to products and/or services on public forums. However, if you do a google search for passive splitters, this should give you an idea of their cost.
How to hook a Samsung galaxy smart phone to your stage snakes
The smart phone needs to connect into a console. Connecting it directly into a snake is not a good idea. There would probably be too much resistance in the wire.
1:34 in ... I'm seasick ... anybody gots a barf bag ?
Yo
Illustrate with a simple diagram will be a lot better ！
There is a diagram! It's near the end of the video!
@@stageleftaudio Thank You ！ 😊