@@Slidefunk I love the cup depth, not too deep or shallow, as well as the rim size and feel of the rim. DW does a great job with rims and the SM4 is no exception.
very insightful!!! I have always known the brand Denis Wick, even ten years ago when I was solely a Saxophone player. I just recently bought a trumpet and got a cheap DW mute to go along with it. That's all I thought the brand was about: cheap brasswind accessories. Never knew the history and the innovation behind this man! Plus he was in my favorite movie soundtrack!?!
I am a lapsed player having not played trombone for many, many, years. When I had a small bore instrument I found my "sweet spot" using the 7CS mouthpiece giving both range a clarity for the music I was playing (largely brass band at the time). 30 years ago I upgraded to a large bore Yamaha YSL681B model and discovered that Denis Wick did not produce a large bore equivalent of this mouthpiece. In the end I opted for the 6BL which was close but never really the same. It produced a good tone and mid & lower ranges were solid, but I could never hit the upper register notes (C, D, E, F) with the same clarity or, in some cases, at all with the 6BL. Briefly switched to a 9BL which gave me the upper range back, but at the cost of a less full lower range, so settled on the 6BL for general purpose playing coupled with a heavy top booster. Despite having not played in years it always mystified me why there was never a 7CL or non-Wick large bore equivalent of the 7CS.
Funny how a mouthpiece made by The Salvation Army was his inspiration. The Trimphonic line of brass instruments were incredible. Especially the euphoniums..
I am an amateur player. I play on a Wick and really like it. I've been playing for 54 years, and switched to a week in my 20s. It has been a really good choice. Very comfortable on the lips without that sharp edge. I've tried other "name brand" mouthpieces and keep coming back to them. It's been a great choice. Solid in every register. It's a good choice.
Have not yet tried the Wick mouthpieces but noticed they look very similar to the Josef Kleir mouthpieces. I have used them (JK Exclusive 5BL and the 5CL) and really like them. Need to try the Denis Wick for sure. Each player has their own results. I think my favorite is the Schilke Symphony Series. Particularly the M5.2 one. Great projection, fullness, and powerful sound. The medium cup took some getting used to in terms of less deepness in the sound but the medium cup fits better for what I am playing I guess. Also I like the Laskey 59D. Would love to try the 59MD which has a medium size cup. Always fun to try different mouthpieces. Denis Wick 4 is definitely on my list of the next one to try. Great video and thanks for posting it.
Just to add one thing, although I didn't get the 6BL in a "heavy-top" form per se, I did later purchase a Denis Wick "booster" to add weight to mouthpiece, & I've been experimenting with it. Of my 4 mouthpieces that I own, I would say that I prefer the DW 6BL. Regards, George, Canada
@@georgeschaut2178 I have a heavyweight 4AL that I used quite a bit on an old horn. Unfortunately it doesn't really fit my current setup, which I think would respond better to the classic shape.
@@georgeschaut2178 Hi. I also play my Bach 42 with a DW 6BL and I like more the sound than with my previous VB 6 1/2 A. What do you get with the booster on this 6BL? Thanks
@@JoseABerja Hello Jose...Denis Wick claims that the booster, by adding more weight, gives the horn more "focus" & "projection" which might be useful for larger venues--i.e., where a larger volume is needed--but without the sound breaking up. It says that sans booster might be more suited to chamber music settings. I'm still experimenting at this stage (& only recently starting to get back into playing concerts). Getting a booster that you attach might prove a bit cheaper than purchasing a new heavytop...hope this helps. G.S.
I tried the 4AL for a few months and I honestly hated it. The rim was uncomfortable and I had a lot of trouble centering the notes. Ended up just switching back to my old stomvi. I have tried a Griego 5C and I have found that to be the most easy playing and comfortable mouthpiece I have tried.
I'm also a fan of Denis Wick mouthpieces and mutes. I'm not a pro-player like Brian and just play in a church orchestra. In that role, I find a need to be very versatile as I need to switch between a small bore and a large bore trombone, a euphonium, and a bass trumpet. I have Wick mouthpieces for all of the above. I also have an Eb tuba and a King 6B symphonic bass trombone that when needed on rare occasions, also use Wick mouthpieces.
After using a Schilke 51 for many years, I have switched to the Dennis Wick 5AL. I play on an older Conn 88H. I'm really impressed with the response I'm getting on the Wick compared to my Schilke. Feels more comfortable on my lip. How does the 4 compare to the 5AL that I just purchased.
@@Slidefunk Thanks for the info! I didn't try the 4AL. I think coming from the Schilke 51, the 5AL was a good fit for me. Was looking for a slightly smaller cup and the 4AL would have had me going the other way?
Hello! I'm going to buy a DW 4AL or even a 3AL, but I'm not sure how big is the difference. I'm playing a large bore, is the 4AL enough for a clear low register ?
For me the 4al is large enough for playing down below the staff. Is it a bass trombone mouthpiece? No, but down to Eb, D and Db it speaks and has a nice sound. Everyone's facial features and oral structures are different, so if its possible to compare the two options in person do so. What you want to do is find a cup diameter that works for you and stick with it, varying the depth and venturi depending on you gig. For some, the 3al is a good fit for their embouchure. For me, a 26mm cup diameter is a good fit. You can download a Denis Wick size chart from their website to see specific measurements. Happy playing!
Denis knew what he was doing. I had lessons with him in the 70's and as a performer he was rightly concerned first and foremost with his sound 'in the hall', not the sound (or ease of play for that matter) at the point of play, which is so much the goal of a lesser ego. Instruments with cylindrical bores (trombone, baritone, and trumpet) sound best (though don't necessarily 'work' the best, in terms of doing the work of supporting a weak embouchure that should be trained to greater strength, not given a crutch) with V-shaped (rather than C-shaped) cups that have large, soft-shouldered throats and full taper back-bores. Failing those elements, cylindrical instruments lose their 'cylindrical' identity, for being made to sound artificially and pointlessly euphonic, because the mouthpieces become instead tone controls instead of impedance matching devices. C-cupped mouthpieces with tight, sharp throats, such as most people prefer and play on, cause the illusion of added volume at the point of play, but what it really is is a failure for the tone to project, for lacking then the resonance and vitality that cause projection, which is experienced instead as volume 'in the hall'. Having to work a little harder to win the effect of 'better' sound is an option if you have the strength and talent necessary to its securing. The point is, that as a performer, with an obligation to the audience, you should sacrifice yourself to the sound, not the other way around. If you want greater facility, practice more, don't try to win it by getting a cheater mouthpiece! If you want great sound, use the mouthpiece that impedance matches with the instrument you are obligated to, and then...practice to win what you haven't got. If you haven't got sound, no one want to hear (or hire) you! Get the horse back in front of the cart!
I have yet to find a Wick mouthpiece that lacks the "Wick fuzz". No matter what I try, I can't achieve the full, centered tone that I desire on my euphonium. Not so on my Doug Elliot, fortunately.
I studied with Denis Wick in 1969. Bought a 4AL from him. I guess machining wasn't as reliably precise back in those days. He took it out of the box and tried it before letting me have it "to be sure it's a good one". There must have been some individual hand work in finishing them back then because the 4AL lettering is a bit wobbly! I guess that's why he insisted on trying it out for me
There is also the DW 4BL which might be better for trombone. I own both the 4AL and 4BL and interchange them between my trombone and my euphonium. I like them but have experienced the "buzz" that some say is inherit with the mouthpieces. I also have Bach 4G and 5G mouthpieces, and the Bach and DW are very different, to me. All are large shank. I use Bach and Yamaha for my small bore trombones.
I'm not sure if difficult is the right word to describe the difference. The Wick 4 has a wider cup diameter, deeper cup depth and larger venturi than the Bach 6.5. In terms of cup diameter, it would take a week or so to get used to the different feel on your lips. You may find you like the wider cup of the Wick, or prefer your smaller 6.5. It's very dependent on your facial structure. I think the change that will take the longest to get used to is the venturi (also known as the throat or bore). The Wick's wider throat is going to require a wider column of air, and will feel more open. It's going to respond differently to changes in your air and attack than the Bach you are used to and will take time to adjust your approach. Hope that helps!
When I was young they put all "serious" trombone students on Bach 6.5-AL which never worked for me. At one point it seemed like the more I practiced the worse my attacks and center got. At a music store I tried a Denis Wick 6BS and it was like my horn suddenly came alive. Next lesson my private teacher was amazed and asked me what I did and I showed him my mouthpiece. Getting more into legit I started playing a Conn 88H and wanted a darker sound and more volume than I was getting with the 6BS so I was going to try a 5BL and 5AL but the music store didn't have either in stock so I got a 4AL. That was a pretty huge jump so I wouldn't recommend that. I'd try a 6BS since that has the same rim diameter as your Bach 6.5. Since a Wick 4AL is such a big and open mouthpiece you need a lot of strength to play it so I wouldn't go with it unless you are doing heavy orchestra work.
So, the true hero who understands structural difference of mouthpiece was Mr. Giardinelli, then? *I searched about Mr. Giardinelli, and now I feel very much guilty of not knowing him at all...
I adore this mouthpiece, it was my first dedicated euphonium piece before my current SM4. Cool to see someone else really likes it too.
That's awesome! What do you like about the SM4?
@@Slidefunk I love the cup depth, not too deep or shallow, as well as the rim size and feel of the rim. DW does a great job with rims and the SM4 is no exception.
ayy it's cooked dough lol
very insightful!!! I have always known the brand Denis Wick, even ten years ago when I was solely a Saxophone player. I just recently bought a trumpet and got a cheap DW mute to go along with it. That's all I thought the brand was about: cheap brasswind accessories. Never knew the history and the innovation behind this man! Plus he was in my favorite movie soundtrack!?!
I am a lapsed player having not played trombone for many, many, years. When I had a small bore instrument I found my "sweet spot" using the 7CS mouthpiece giving both range a clarity for the music I was playing (largely brass band at the time). 30 years ago I upgraded to a large bore Yamaha YSL681B model and discovered that Denis Wick did not produce a large bore equivalent of this mouthpiece. In the end I opted for the 6BL which was close but never really the same. It produced a good tone and mid & lower ranges were solid, but I could never hit the upper register notes (C, D, E, F) with the same clarity or, in some cases, at all with the 6BL. Briefly switched to a 9BL which gave me the upper range back, but at the cost of a less full lower range, so settled on the 6BL for general purpose playing coupled with a heavy top booster.
Despite having not played in years it always mystified me why there was never a 7CL or non-Wick large bore equivalent of the 7CS.
Funny how a mouthpiece made by The Salvation Army was his inspiration. The Trimphonic line of brass instruments were incredible. Especially the euphoniums..
I am an amateur player. I play on a Wick and really like it. I've been playing for 54 years, and switched to a week in my 20s. It has been a really good choice. Very comfortable on the lips without that sharp edge. I've tried other "name brand" mouthpieces and keep coming back to them. It's been a great choice. Solid in every register. It's a good choice.
Have not yet tried the Wick mouthpieces but noticed they look very similar to the Josef Kleir mouthpieces. I have used them (JK Exclusive 5BL and the 5CL) and really like them. Need to try the Denis Wick for sure. Each player has their own results. I think my favorite is the Schilke Symphony Series. Particularly the M5.2 one. Great projection, fullness, and powerful sound. The medium cup took some getting used to in terms of less deepness in the sound but the medium cup fits better for what I am playing I guess. Also I like the Laskey 59D. Would love to try the 59MD which has a medium size cup. Always fun to try different mouthpieces. Denis Wick 4 is definitely on my list of the next one to try. Great video and thanks for posting it.
Thanks for the comment, glad you enjoyed the video!
I use a Denis Wick 6BL trombone mouthpiece, which was personally recommended to me by Denis Wick himself for my Bach 42b horn.
Just to add one thing, although I didn't get the 6BL in a "heavy-top" form per se, I did later purchase a Denis Wick "booster" to add weight to mouthpiece, & I've been experimenting with it. Of my 4 mouthpieces that I own, I would say that I prefer the DW 6BL. Regards, George, Canada
@@georgeschaut2178 I have a heavyweight 4AL that I used quite a bit on an old horn. Unfortunately it doesn't really fit my current setup, which I think would respond better to the classic shape.
@@georgeschaut2178 Hi. I also play my Bach 42 with a DW 6BL and I like more the sound than with my previous VB 6 1/2 A. What do you get with the booster on this 6BL? Thanks
@@JoseABerja Hello Jose...Denis Wick claims that the booster, by adding more weight, gives the horn more "focus" & "projection" which might be useful for larger venues--i.e., where a larger volume is needed--but without the sound breaking up. It says that sans booster might be more suited to chamber music settings. I'm still experimenting at this stage (& only recently starting to get back into playing concerts). Getting a booster that you attach might prove a bit cheaper than purchasing a new heavytop...hope this helps. G.S.
I tried the 4AL for a few months and I honestly hated it. The rim was uncomfortable and I had a lot of trouble centering the notes. Ended up just switching back to my old stomvi. I have tried a Griego 5C and I have found that to be the most easy playing and comfortable mouthpiece I have tried.
I'm also a fan of Denis Wick mouthpieces and mutes. I'm not a pro-player like Brian and just play in a church orchestra. In that role, I find a need to be very versatile as I need to switch between a small bore and a large bore trombone, a euphonium, and a bass trumpet. I have Wick mouthpieces for all of the above. I also have an Eb tuba and a King 6B symphonic bass trombone that when needed on rare occasions, also use Wick mouthpieces.
After using a Schilke 51 for many years, I have switched to the Dennis Wick 5AL. I play on an older Conn 88H. I'm really impressed with the response I'm getting on the Wick compared to my Schilke. Feels more comfortable on my lip. How does the 4 compare to the 5AL that I just purchased.
The 4AL is a slightly wider inner diameter, slightly deeper cup, slightly larger Venturi. It will definitely feel bigger.
@@Slidefunk Thanks for the info! I didn't try the 4AL. I think coming from the Schilke 51, the 5AL was a good fit for me. Was looking for a slightly smaller cup and the 4AL would have had me going the other way?
@@marathonkev I'm not as familiar with Schilke's system, but I think the 5AL is likely most similar to the 51
Hello!
I'm going to buy a DW 4AL or even a 3AL, but I'm not sure how big is the difference.
I'm playing a large bore, is the 4AL enough for a clear low register ?
For me the 4al is large enough for playing down below the staff. Is it a bass trombone mouthpiece? No, but down to Eb, D and Db it speaks and has a nice sound.
Everyone's facial features and oral structures are different, so if its possible to compare the two options in person do so. What you want to do is find a cup diameter that works for you and stick with it, varying the depth and venturi depending on you gig. For some, the 3al is a good fit for their embouchure. For me, a 26mm cup diameter is a good fit. You can download a Denis Wick size chart from their website to see specific measurements.
Happy playing!
Denis knew what he was doing. I had lessons with him in the 70's and as a performer he was rightly concerned first and foremost with his sound 'in the hall', not the sound (or ease of play for that matter) at the point of play, which is so much the goal of a lesser ego. Instruments with cylindrical bores (trombone, baritone, and trumpet) sound best (though don't necessarily 'work' the best, in terms of doing the work of supporting a weak embouchure that should be trained to greater strength, not given a crutch) with V-shaped (rather than C-shaped) cups that have large, soft-shouldered throats and full taper back-bores. Failing those elements, cylindrical instruments lose their 'cylindrical' identity, for being made to sound artificially and pointlessly euphonic, because the mouthpieces become instead tone controls instead of impedance matching devices.
C-cupped mouthpieces with tight, sharp throats, such as most people prefer and play on, cause the illusion of added volume at the point of play, but what it really is is a failure for the tone to project, for lacking then the resonance and vitality that cause projection, which is experienced instead as volume 'in the hall'. Having to work a little harder to win the effect of 'better' sound is an option if you have the strength and talent necessary to its securing. The point is, that as a performer, with an obligation to the audience, you should sacrifice yourself to the sound, not the other way around. If you want greater facility, practice more, don't try to win it by getting a cheater mouthpiece! If you want great sound, use the mouthpiece that impedance matches with the instrument you are obligated to, and then...practice to win what you haven't got. If you haven't got sound, no one want to hear (or hire) you! Get the horse back in front of the cart!
I used to play on a Golf Denis Wick 3AL
I have yet to find a Wick mouthpiece that lacks the "Wick fuzz". No matter what I try, I can't achieve the full, centered tone that I desire on my euphonium. Not so on my Doug Elliot, fortunately.
I studied with Denis Wick in 1969. Bought a 4AL from him. I guess machining wasn't as reliably precise back in those days. He took it out of the box and tried it before letting me have it "to be sure it's a good one". There must have been some individual hand work in finishing them back then because the 4AL lettering is a bit wobbly! I guess that's why he insisted on trying it out for me
So, the 4AL is suitable for trombone?
There is also the DW 4BL which might be better for trombone. I own both the 4AL and 4BL and interchange them between my trombone and my euphonium. I like them but have experienced the "buzz" that some say is inherit with the mouthpieces. I also have Bach 4G and 5G mouthpieces, and the Bach and DW are very different, to me. All are large shank. I use Bach and Yamaha for my small bore trombones.
Yes, but it is such a big mouthpiece it is more suited to heavy orchestra work.
Love mine
Please play Fireflies by Owl City! That's my favorite song.
Does he have a brother named John?
I play a Bach 6.5 small shank. This DW 4 will be much more difficult to play? ( more air requirement )
I'm not sure if difficult is the right word to describe the difference. The Wick 4 has a wider cup diameter, deeper cup depth and larger venturi than the Bach 6.5. In terms of cup diameter, it would take a week or so to get used to the different feel on your lips. You may find you like the wider cup of the Wick, or prefer your smaller 6.5. It's very dependent on your facial structure.
I think the change that will take the longest to get used to is the venturi (also known as the throat or bore). The Wick's wider throat is going to require a wider column of air, and will feel more open. It's going to respond differently to changes in your air and attack than the Bach you are used to and will take time to adjust your approach.
Hope that helps!
When I was young they put all "serious" trombone students on Bach 6.5-AL which never worked for me. At one point it seemed like the more I practiced the worse my attacks and center got. At a music store I tried a Denis Wick 6BS and it was like my horn suddenly came alive. Next lesson my private teacher was amazed and asked me what I did and I showed him my mouthpiece. Getting more into legit I started playing a Conn 88H and wanted a darker sound and more volume than I was getting with the 6BS so I was going to try a 5BL and 5AL but the music store didn't have either in stock so I got a 4AL. That was a pretty huge jump so I wouldn't recommend that. I'd try a 6BS since that has the same rim diameter as your Bach 6.5. Since a Wick 4AL is such a big and open mouthpiece you need a lot of strength to play it so I wouldn't go with it unless you are doing heavy orchestra work.
@@jacksonbrucea thanks 🙏👍
is that 4bs? or exactly 4?
4m. It's made to fit a euro shank euphonium
I play on a Denis Wicke 9BS
How is it compared to the Jupiter 5G?
I've never tried a Jupiter 5G. If its anything similar to the Bach 5G, the Wick will be a bit larger with a flatter rim.
Pronounced:
jar-din-ELLY
I use a Besson 4. Has anybody ever heard of this?
So, the true hero who understands structural difference of mouthpiece was Mr. Giardinelli, then?
*I searched about Mr. Giardinelli, and now I feel very much guilty of not knowing him at all...
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