Kontrabass Pickup-Vergleich [ Pickup comparison ]
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- Опубліковано 14 вер 2015
- "Kontrabass-Tonabnehmer im direkten Vergleich"
Unterschiede der Bauarten ● Analyse und Fakten ● klanglicher Unterschied
Nähere Infos auf: bennizehetner.com/
- dieses Video ist die Auswertung meiner Bachelorarbeit.
Die Verglichenen Systeme sind:
(1) AKG C214 - Referenzmikrofon; 120cm Entfernung, Augenhöhe und auf Steg zeigend
(2) DPA d:vote 4099B - Kondensator Clip-Mikrofon
(3) Shadow Nanoflex SH965 NFX-B - Folientonabnehmern unter den Stegfüßen
(4) The Realist LifeLine™ - Piezotonabnehmer unter der Stegschraube
(5) Ehrlund - Kontaktmikrofon mit dazugehörigem Preamp
(6) Shaddow SH 950 - Piezotonabnehmer zwischen den Stegflügeln
(7) Bass Balsereit Standard - Piezotonabnehmer im Steg
(8) AKG C411 - Kondensator-Kontaktmikrofon
(9) Shure Beta 98 H/C - Kondensator Clip-Mikrofon
(10) Schaller Oyster 723 - Piezotonabnehmer zum Aufkleben auf die Decke
(11) AKG C451 EB - Kondensator-Kleinmembran-Mikrofon
(12) AKG C214 - Kondensator-Großmembran-Mikrofon
(13) AKG D112 - dynamisches Mikrofon für Bassinstrumente
(14) Shure Beta 57A - dynamisches Mikrofon
Alle Tonabnahmesysteme waren zur gleichen Zeit in einem Bass verbaut und wurden gleichzeitig aufgenommen. So hatte man einen realen, direkten Vergleich mit nur einem gespielten Track. Alle Piezotonabnehmer wurden mit gleichwertigen Vorverstärkern, mit einer Eingangsimpedanz von jeweils 1M Ohm aufgenommen. Ich arbeitete gewissenhaft und bemühte mich um möglichst wissenschaftliche, sowie gleiche und faire Verhältnisse.
Ein spezielles Dankeschön geht an Kanzian & Traunsteiner Kontrabassbau für den zur Verfügung gestellten Kontrabass samt drei gleichzeitig verbauten Tonabnehmern!
www.kontrabass-wien.at/
Ich freue mich über eure Kommentare und Likes ;-)
Viel Spaß beim Nachhören und Recherchieren!
Mic. Swing. Bow Solo. Groove
(1) AKG C214. 0:08 4:23 6:33 9:52 12:57
(2) DPA d:vote 4099B. 0:27 4:29 6:47 10:06 13:08
(3) Shadow Nanoflex SH965 NFX-B. 0:45 4:35 7:01 10:18 13:18
(4) The Realist LifeLine. 1:03 4:40 7:15 10:32 13:29
(5) Ehrlund. 1:21 4:46 7:29 10:45 13:39
(6) Shaddow SH 950. 1:39 4:51 7:43 10:58 13:49
(7) Bass Balsereit Standard. 1:57 4:57 7:57 11:11 14:00
(8) AKG C411 2:15 5:02 8:12 11:24 14:10
(9) Shure Beta 98 H/C. 2:32 5:07 8:26 11:37 14:20
(10) Schaller Oyster 723. 2:50 5:13 8:40 11:50 14:31
(11) AKG C451 EB. 3:08 5:18 8:54 12:03 14:41
(12) AKG C214. 3:26 5:24 9:09 12:16 14:52
(13) AKG D112. 3:44 5:29 9:23 12:29 15:02
(14) Shure Beta 57A. 4:02 5:35 9:37 12:42 15:13
Sorry this isn’t formatted so well for mobile...
This is what was missing on UA-cam. Thank you very much!
Very comprehensive, thank you 😎 Your test is an excellent way for players to choose between pickups before buying. Placement is a huge variable I have found.
Gute gemacht, Mann. Danke. Certainly needed on You Tube concerning kontrabass. Cheers.
Great job - thanks, very useful. I've just ordered a Shadow SH965 NFX-B, looking forward to trying it out.
+Paul E Thanks! The Shaddow Nanoflex is a nice pickup. I played it some time and it sounds good. The pickup is very save when you play loud music (for excample this ua-cam.com/video/cGZ4nsDrj4E/v-deo.html). I especially like the tone and volume poti right on the pickup! But I had to fix my pickup with gaffertape and sponge for the kitchen because it made some noises when you play accoustic music. ;-)
Great video. This is just what I needed to hear.
Great test! Thanks. I have used Electro Voice RE-20, Wilson K4, David Gage The Realist Copperhead. All three really worth checking out!
Amazing. Thank you very much for this super useful video!
Super vielen Dank! Echt hilfreich!
Cool, das ist ja unser Bassist und Tontechniker :-)
Wow, super useful! Thank you!
Great job! The bass looks sick with all this stuff on it :D
+upright bassmatt Yes, it was really crazy! :-P
Thanks, good work, excellent information.
Danke ich werde das nächste mal das AKG D112 ausprobieren!
I have been using the Schaller Oyster and with a lot of patience I found a spot with a full and balanced tone. A movement of one millimeter can make a big difference to the tone.
Good work! I also tried a lot to move the Pickup, and it was a big difference on the sound. All the Contact-Microfons are very sensible on which place you install it. During I tried to find a good spot, the basic sound from the pickup was good to hear. Probably it works better on your bass than on mine ;-)
When you amp the bass you also don´t hear the sound as naked as it is in my video, so I think it can work for you!
I like the Erhlund as far as contact mics go. It would be nice to buy one in the future!
The best placement for the AKG C411 is between 1 to 2 inches vertically below the bridge's low foot over the harmonic bar.
Try this!
Benjamin - LOVED this video. Very useful and informative. Was looking for a DPA 4099b demo and got so much more! Seems most piezo pickups fall short in the arco category. DPA and the other clip on (Shure??) worked the best with the bow. What mic/ pickup or combo is your favorite?
Thank you for this. It obviously took a LOT of time to set up. I will be sharing this video!
+contrabbasso76 Thank you! If it is just about the Sound, I would immediatly use the DPA. But most of the time, you need a pickup, because of the feedback problems! If I would have a bridge with screws, I would take the Realist Lifeline. At the Moment I use the Shaddow SH 950 ... The sound is not the best, but when you cut out the high mids the sound is much better. Before I used the Shaddow nanoflex but the small cables from the pickup to the little preamp sometimes make some crazy sounds, when they get lose during playing ... So I feel safe with he Shaddow SH 950 but the sound is not the best. ... I am still looking for a better pickup :-D
sehr interessant. auf das Video komm ich noch ein paar Mal zurück. und jetzt will ich den EAP für live :/
This was a great comparison. You are missing the fishman BP 100, is Aldo a great pickup. Yo my taste, I can este THE best in this order:
1.Shure beta 98A/(Fishman BP 100)
2.Dpa. d vore 4099B
3.Akg c451 EB
4.Akg c214
All orders sound to dry, light and canned.
In my opinion I think the Schaller Oyster 723 and the Shaddow SH 950 more accurately capture the sound of a contrabass in natural, in the same order of tastes, by the way TREMENDOUS EFFORT TO MAKE THIS VIDEO, THANKS, GREETINGS FROM CHILE
Great job! Thanks.
Eres muy amable y un genio , gracias!!!!
Great effort - a question, though... What was your process? There are several passive piezo pickups here (Gage Lifeline, Oyster, etc.), and if they were inserted directly into a line input on a mixing board without proper impedance buffering, that would account for what I consider to be less-than-optimal results on some of those pickups. Whereas pickups like the Shadow - and particularly the Ehrlund, which I am a big fan of - both include their own proprietary buffering preamp, which gives them a considerable advantage over a pickup being plugged into the "wrong" sort of input.
It would be like comparing two microphones - one plugged into a true XLR microphone input, and the other using a simple "adapter" cable to plug into an "instrument" 1/4" input on a guitar amp. It's not really an equal comparison.
So, interested to know a bit more detail - but thanks so much for your considerable effort!
Sehr schöner Test!
Hello benjamin! great idea to compare the pickups at exact the same moment and thanks a lot for the efford.
one of the aspects that is not taken in consideration in this setup is howmuch and in what way does the pickup installed affect the sound of the bass due to its way of installation: underwood systems for example stop the bridge 'wings' from doing their work as eqalizers, so this affects the sound quite a lot. so do systems placed under the bridge, between the 'feet and the bass-top.
so in your recording, all sounds (even acoustic/pure) suffer from the installation of shadow nanoflex and shadow SH-950 which is a pitty i think.
+jan flubacher Thanks for your feedback! I don´t think, that installed pickups effect the sound a lot. I think that happens only a litte bit. The main sound is created throug the whole body of the instrument and the strings itself. Even when you change the whole bridge (if it is good made also before) you don´t hear a lot of difference when you stand infront of your instrument. But the strings itself have a lot influence of the sound, because they caus all the vibrations. The bridge is the main player of sending the stringvibrations to the body. But a litte peace of hard plastic between bridge and body don´t change a lot from the basic sound and the way how the waves are transmitted. I think it is really a pitty that no pickup can get the real basssound how it sounds infront of the bass. That´s because a lot of the bodyparrts from the bass and the wood itself play an important role in producing the sound. ... and even a Microfone can never capture the sound like we hear it because it is working different than our ears ... but we can always find a way how our bass sound pretty nice! :-)
Love the DPA!
Great job! Grat :)
great thanks ! would like to hear the greg myers pick up in this mix. k
Bless you laddie!
It is well known that the position of a microphone on an instrument
determines the sound thereof when it is recorded or amplified. This test does not seem so well that it seems at first sight ...
You are absolutely right! But you can hear the main difference between the systems. THE MAIN PROBLEM IS, that this clear and naked DI-signals don´t say anything about how a Pickup works in a Band. At the moment I use the Shadow SH 950, because it is very save for feedback and other Soundproblems on big stages. I am quite confident with it, because it has much high frequencies and much output-level for a piezo. But when I would just hear my own pickup study, I would never use it. I think it is good, when a pickup has a large spectrum of bass and high frequenzies. If there is one frequency that is too loud, you can easily filter it away, but if it is missing, there is no way to get it back. The high frequencies are important, that the bass comes through a mix and it also gives punch to the basslines. So the Bass Balsereit woud alo be interesting. When I use the Shaddow nanoflex, my sound is to dark and "wooomy" on big stages. And when you play loud music, it is the most important to mute the strings between the bridge and the stringholder. ... it is so hard to compare pickups and find the best solution ... :-P
good job!!
Hallo Benjamin, toller Test ! Respekt!
Eine Sache : Der Balsereit klingt normal viel besser, ich glaube du hättest den Pick-Up ein bisschen drehen müssen, bis ein tieferer, vollerer Ton entsteht ;-) Der Soundunterschied ist sehr groß, auch ist es ganz wichtig den Konus GANZ fest in den Steg zu drehen. Der Balsereit ist in dieser Hinsicht etwas speziell.Grüße, Frowin
Danke! Da hast du bestimmt recht. Allerdings ist das auch das nackte DI Signal. Über einen Verstärker mit EQ klingt das nochmal ganz anders. Da finde ich es wichtiger, dass das ganze Frequenz Spektrum da ist und man sich mit einem guten EQ die störenden Frequenzen rauszieht. Was fehlt kann man nicht mehr herzaubern ;-)
Perfect! I`m not going to use piezos... on my DB. Cheers!
Ich habe auf Talkbass gelesen, dass Scott Lafaro ein P-bass Pickup am Ende des Griffbrett gesteckt benutzte. Hast du es mal probiert?
Meiner Meinung nach, klingen die AKG D112 / C214 und die EhrLund am besten.
Bravo!!!
Hi Benjamin! Thanks a lot for the video! I am playing cello, i have pickup shadow, i cant stand anymore, i need to have better clear sound, i am looping, so non of the beautiful mics you were testing are good for me unfortunetly, because they are taking noise from outsite. Can you have maybe any sugesstions for me, for the loop project??
If you loop, you´d need a pickup for shure. With Mikes you catch up a lot of noise. If you like a more clear and bright sound (more from the strings itself) you should take a system that is installed in the bridge. If you like more tone from the body of the instrument (sounds mostly a little darker) you should take a system, that ist installed under the feet of the bridge. That also can also repuduce tapping sounds on the body. But a contact microfon could also be a solution. I don´t know what style you play and what amp (preamp) you use. For all piecos pickups, you need an input with high impedance input ...
@@BenjaminZehetner thanks for advice! I will search for a pickup!
Hi Benjamin, sehr brauchbarer Test, danke! Wäre schön du könntest nächstes Mal die Schertler Dyn B und Stat B, Realist Copperhead, Realist Wood Tone, Realist Sound clip, Fishman BP 100 und Fishman Full Circle testen. Vor allem die Schertler Produkte sind recht interessant denke ich. Und Frage: Welches Mikro/Tonabnehmer hört man denn im Outro diese Videos?
Hallo, ja es wäre wirklich interessant noch mehrere Tonabnehmer zu vergleichen. Allerdings sollte ich noch dringender ein Video über den Zusammenhang der Positionen der Pickups zu Sound, Feedbackresistenz und Klangcharakteristika machen. Und da wäre es auch sehr spannend wie groß der klangliche Unterschied zwischen zwei ähnlichen Systemen z.B. Realist Copperhead und Wood Tone ist.
@@BenjaminZehetner verstehe.. dein Test ist allerdings sehr nützlich für einen schnellen Klangvergleich. Aber es stimmt: letztendlich muß man jeden individuellen Tonabnehmer ausfūhrlich separat testen wobei nicht alle Anderen am Baß dran hängen. Und da spielen dann auch viele andere Aspekte eine Rolle: Plazierung des Tonabnehmers, (Vor)verstärkereinstellungen, Saiten, die spezifischen Eigenschaften des Instruments und Verstärkers, usw. Es ist Sache eine optimale Kombination zu finden. Aber es fängt alles an bei einer groben Vorwahl in welchen Sound man denn überhaupt mag und in welcher Situation man das Teil benutzen will. Also beide Testarten und -Ziele sind nützlich. Bin gespannt auf den nächsten Test. Viel Erfolg!
Shure Beta 98 ... that is the one I like the most
i have been listening many times now and i am surprised by the results of your balsereit-pickup (or 'bassbalsereit' as it is called now). i have been using this (passive) version for over 20 years now on many basses, from cheap multiplex to highest quality master instrumens an i never had such a bad sound as it is in your recording?!
actually, most technicians on stages where i appeared with my basses asked for the name of this amazing pickup during or right after the soundcheck and usually decided not to use a microphone on the side, because it sounded almost as good as the mic.
this pickup has one challenge: you have to take some time to (litterally) 'turn' it into the right position. so i don't agree with your judgement. it is also one of the few pickups that work perfectly for a beautiful arco-sound. if you use the pre-amp that comes with this pickup or the active version of it, the results are even better. great feedback-safety, great open, acoustic sound for pizz, arco and slap. i would say, test again :-))
cheers, jan
+jan flubacher Thanks for your feedback! The problem with all pickups is always, that
it just capture the sound on the spot were it is installed. So it can
never sound like a microfon, but it also less prone to feedback. The
bassbalsereit had a lot of high frequencies, exorbitant mids but also
"wumms" or punch in the attack. So if you EQ it and send it over a nice
preamp it can sound really nice because it has the whole
frequence-spectrum ;-) I just recorded and showed the naked input
without any EQ or special preamp. If you want to listen to a
soundexample from the bassbalsereit studio you can go to this site:
soundcloud.com/landomusic/sets
... I think it also sounds a litte less "bassy" but the preamp itself is save against feedback and has the nice punch when you pick the strings.
When the technicans ask you for the name of the amazing pickup, it might be you who sound so nice! :-D
Thank You. You did best job in You tube :-) with pickup comparison. I wander witch of this pieszo Pickups Is closest to microphone sound ? Best regards. I’m very interested which of this pieszo pickups woud be best for electric upright bass ?
It´s really hard to say. What I recorded is just the raw output from the Pickups. It sounds different when you play over an amp, especially with EQs. I for example use the Shaddow SH950. In my own comparisson it sounds not really good in comparisson to some others BUT:
- SH950 has a wide frequenzy spectrum (also high frequenzies) - when I cut out the mids and high mids, it sound pretty good
- it is very feedback resistant because of it´s position in the Bridge
- good and high output volume
- it´s stabil - no problems with cracks etc. when mooving the bass
- it gives me a sound, that you can hear clear when the whole band is playing (but it could sound better when I am playing alone ... both is difficult)
If you like a natural sound and if you don´t play in a very loud band, like in a jazz trio, you could try the Ehrlund. In the right setup, the Bass Balsereit PUs could also sound very good. You can adjust the sound of the Bass Balsereit if you spin it.
Basically you could say, that all PUs that are in the position under the Bridge sound lower and are more sensitive to feedback because the double bass blanket is resonating more than the bridge. The PUs who are in or on the bridge have more high frequenzies and are more tolerant against feedback. The Kontrabass as an instrument is resonating all around but every pickup just takes the resonance of one tiny spot of this big instrument ... that is the problem.
Benjamin Zehetner thanks a lot for your answer. I’ m very interested what amplifier are You using with shadow pickup and what preamp for giging. I’m at the moment building my own rig based on electric upright.
@@77Kaczoszka77 At the moment I use an old Gallien Krüger MB150 ... it´s not the best choice, but I can handle it. Probably I´ll buy a Markbass, because I played it at some Gigs and it worked really nice. But it was always good if I use the G&K MB150 with a bigger box if there is one in a club. So I am quite flexible at concerts. What I´ll try next is a "Lehle sterio Volume" pedal as preamp, because it has a perfect high 2 MOhm input for piezos and I can use the second chanel for effects like Electro Harmonix or else without losing quality.
@@BenjaminZehetner thank You for an answer. I'm interested which model of markbass amps You've like best. I've tried little mark III with traveler 2x 10 inch cabinet, and it sound quite nice loud but seams to be better tuned for bass guitar. As for preamp issue, I heard good opinions about Zoom A3, that has 4,7MOhm input for piezo and second independent input for magnetic pickup that you can use parallely, and inside there is bunch of nice digital effects.
Benjamin I would like to ask You if You ever tried such picup KNA DB-1 or Fire& Stone DB-1 sold by Thomann ??
Hi wie ist es mit Rückkopplung wenn es lauter ist?ist das in der Hinsicht mit tonabnehmer vergleichbar?
Alle Pickups die in den Stegflügeln platziert sind, neigen am wenigsten zu Rückkopplung. Pickups unter den Stegfüßen knapp danach. Mikrofonbe oder Piezos auf der Decke koppeln bedeutend mehr und Mikrofone natürlich am allermeisten. Darüber möchte ich am liebsten ein Video machen und auch darüber wie sich die Tonabnehmer mit Verstärkerrn und großen Bühnen verhalten.
Hi Benjamin, ich benutze seit 25 Jahren den Bassbalsereit und habe noch nie so ein schlechtes Signal von diesem Pickup gehört. Ich betreibe auch ein Tonstudio und machmal nehme ich auch bei anderen Bassisten das Pickup Signal auf, auch da hat kein Bassbalsereit so schlecht wie in deinem Video geklungen. Ich weiß nicht was bei dir passiert ist, entweder war das Loch nicht richtig gebohrt oder der Bassbalsereit wurde einfach nur reingesteckt ohne sich die Zeit zu nehmen, die 360° durchzugehen um eine gute Position zu finden (denn tatsächlich, falsch gedreht, kann der so klingen). Ich habe keine "Aktien" bei ANS-Bassbalsereit muss das aber loswerden, denn ich finde es ziemlich unfair, diesen tollen Tonabnehmer hier in so einem schlechten Licht zu stellen. (Ach, als Beispiel könntest du auf meinem Kanal das Video mit dem Planet Wing anschauen, da habe ich auch zum Vergleich den Bassbalsereit vorgeführt. Und da kommt er ganz anders rüber). Trotzdem danke für das interessante Video!
Hattest du nicht das Problem, daß der Shadow Nanoflex SH965 NFX-B den Steg rutschig gemacht hat?
+Arnim Sommer Nein, garnicht. Hat immer super funktioniert. Nur der Preamp zwischen Steg und Saitenhalter scheppert manchmal mit ... ist vorallem blöd wenn man unverstärkt klassisch spielt. Vor allem beim Streichen. Ich habe mir Küchenschwämmen etwas nach gedämmt und dann war es besser. Für Jazz und Rock ist er allerdings super!
Benjamin Zehetner Dann schaue ich mal, ob ich diese klare Überfolie unfallfrei abbekomme...
My god some of these sound so awful! I tried a Myers this weekend, sent it straight back! The dpa Sounds great tho
Like the snappy erlund tho, be a good rockabilly choice
Anyone else feel like the Ehrlund is head and shoulders above?
The Ehrlund sound very natural, because it picks up the resonance from the double bass blanket. So you can hear more from the wood of the instrument (one little spot of the resonating wood). But it is also pretty sensitive to feedback. So it is no choice if you play with a bigband or another loud combo. In a Jazztrio it would be great :-)
...sorry it's SHURE BETA 98 HC Condenser-clip mic.
.... NOT...... SHURE BETA 98 A Condenser-clip mic.....
....big mic....!!!!!!!
Oh, you are right! I don´t know how this accidant happend.