I'll say something else, young people should learn how to descalate issues. Which if they control the ego, they really should have self defense training.
I taught myself martial arts for many years. It gave me the confidence to approach creepy people. I felt solid and strong. Since becoming an orthodox christian, I've stopped my martial arts because of the turn the other cheek misunderstanding. Watching this video definitely helps me. I want to get back into the Martial arts so I can have that confidence and defend my children. Most importantly, I can teach them self defense
For me it either boils down to whether I trust Christ or not. I choose not to possess weapons, and to be a pacifist because it’s preferable to die or be injured when the alternative is to harm or kill another person. Either Christ protects me and mine, or it’s time to go home. Simple as. I’ll also add that this is my choice based on my history of military service and my personal convictions, I think this is a delicate issue that does actually require a modicum of personal discernment, which is why I won’t argue with orthodox Christian’s who make a different choice.
Deescalate (turn the other cheek) whenever possible. Start up a dialogue. But Jesus was not anti-violence. Ask the money changers in the temple who felt the knot of his belt! Ask the Roman Soldiers he occasionally gave his time too. True he rebuked Peter, in the garden and healed the temple guard's ear, but that was because he had accepted his destiny, and the injury to the guard would have blemished his purpose. If you are attacked, you can defend yourself, even to killing your attacker if you must. But be mindful and obey the laws (what is Ceasar's belongs to Ceasar...) and encourage kindness and consideration where ever you go. This is why Christian civilization, even as rough as it was in its early years, built lasting civilizations.
And the meek shall inherit the earth. What it means is this. Those who have swords and know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth be a David !
slapping someone with the palm in the face wasnt hitting/fighting back than, it was an insult like spitting in the face, there we dont have to do it to them in revenge, we are even called to sincerely pray for them afterwards(important not to fall into spiritual pride in that "they are low level and we are so good..) but as you said rightly, self defense against real violence is fully right and nowhere in scripture it says otherwise. Same as love is mostly misunderstood as "liking", we dont have to like enemies, its about respect, dignity, see them what they are beyond the surface, their essence, but dont like them, same with obeying governments completely misunderstood, as soon as something conflicts with gods law its our duty to oppose it, no matter what governments say or do, for example sexual education in kindergarden is ruled by the government, than fight it or take the child out, we are not commanded to sin because governmnets said so.
The teaching is to not resist evil with evil (meaning with hatred, murderous thoughts and desires and all the other evil intents coming from the human heart). Christ Himself used violence when He and His disciples threw out of the Temple the money lenders. This was done by force. Christianity is not some pacifist hippie cult. Violence is permitted as long as it is used for virtuous purposes, like defending the innocent for example. If a Christian sees a man beating some child severely in the street, he will not say to himself "Well, I guess I don't have a choice, I have no right to intervene." No, the Christian will act and will use as much violence as necessary to stop the attacker. This is what is right and just and this is what Christ did and would have us do as well.
Yes, what is sin? When it's in your handsto do good and you do not. But, it spells out clearly, learn not the ways of the violent man. But, there's Psalms 144:1, blessed is the Lord who teaches my hands to war.
The apostles endured stoning and other violence, where there's probably more a lot more where they did not resist evil. Except Alexander the Coppersmith who St. Paul delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh if I recall, where thisguy entreated Paul evilly. I throw this in to differentiate and have your response. No one wants to endure wrong doing and evil, but if we do, let's make sure it's not for any wrong doing. In this world we may desire to defend ourselves, but in Revelations we read of saints who ask the Lord how long oh Lord, referring to him exacting justice. Which we say how would you like this, like that? No, we do not like things, human nature we pursue what's enjoyed. Which we are supposed to seperate ourselves from the world.. Which if we lose it and come unglued, where we resist, it still shows our pride and ego. Or we could simply get fed up and annoyed. Which some like to annoy and such then when Holy hell is unleashed they beg for help when a chance arise. Which we are also told that we are just sojourners on earth, not having a land or nation. But in the United States, we are entitled to land and property by law. Which I'm not arguing, but inserting comparative notes. Which if we act as brothers and sisters, if someone tries to harm another we would rescue them. We'd support them morally and emotionally. I mean there's only so many millions of Christians on earth. Which cowardice is different from peacefulness. A coward is totally different. Which my worldly self, I have the same idea, where lay pain on the enemy, but tactically. It may take time, but all good things come with time, 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣. Like leaving military service, that isn't too easily done. Look at Vietnam or Afghanistan for Soviets.
I am wondering who wrote this, what their background is, if there is any reliance on patristics, and why Christians would be looking to Ghandi as an example?
This video is odd to say the least. Ghandi has nothing to do with or teach Orthodoxy. Many church fathers and even contemporary elders do say to turn the other cheek and that non violence out of love for our enemy will win us the kingdom of heaven. And the example of Jesus Christ here doesn’t really explain much. Jesus was also abused later by the soldiers and he showed his humility, peace and love for enemies.
Jesus never advocated masochistic self-destruction. There are people who only understand force. We cannot allow evil to propagate by misdirected pacifism.
well said brother, but all the logical advise you are giving here and I am with you all the way, does not explain, or consists of an explanation regarding the words from the gospels... nor the examples from other men, or the counter arguments on words. If there was one thing I would say regarding these words, is to take no revenges, as to a harm already done. Rather than, to not defend your self from direct attacks. all this is open to interpretation
This is why Holy Gospel can only be interpreted through the Holy Fathers of the Church (which by God the Holy Spirit, in Synods, canonized the Holy Gospel), and furthermore, to ask "how do we implement this?" We look to our Saints - who are the Gospel in practice - applied dogmatics, as St Justin Popovic says. Thusly: Elder Thaddeus (1914-2003 Serbia, WWII, Yugoslavia collapse): “We should defend one another, for we are brothers - especially we who are of one Faith. There is an example of this in history. Once, when an official delegation of Constantinopolitan dignitaries was sent to the Saracens to negotiate peace, the Saracens argued that Christians disobeyed God’s commandment. They said: ‘Why do you Christians disobey Christ’s commandment to love your enemies, but instead persecute and kill us?’ “Now a certain Cyril was part of this delegation. His answer to the Saracens was: ‘If, in a certain law, there are two commandments that must be fulfilled, which man shall be more righteous, he who fulfills both commandments or he who fulfills only one of them?’ The Saracens answered, ‘He that fulfills both, of course.’ Then Cyril said, ‘As individuals we forgive our enemies, but as a community we lay down our lives for one another. For the Lord has said that there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s neighbor. As a community we protect one another and lay down our lives for one another. Not only is your aim to enslave us physically, you also aspire to enslave us spiritually. It is for this reason that we defend ourselves. This, therefore, is justified.” Then there is also the example of St. Ionnicius the Great. He was a soldier for twenty years. He was amazing-whenever he fought a battle, he won. He had never been defeated. He never gave a thought to his won life but laid down his own for others. And the Lord preserved him. Later, when he became a monk, he was a great saint and wonderworker. There were many such hly warriors. The Holy King David says: Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered (Ps. 31:1). Righteousness acts never in its own interest, but in the interest of fellow men. (p. 91-92, Our Thoughts Determine our Lives, 8th ed.) … In the same year [1987] the elder told this pilgrim of a recent dream. In this dream, he [Elder Thaddeus] was in a large church kissing the icons. “Christ Himself appeared before the icon of the Lord. He was weeping. Upon being asked why He was shedding tears, He answered that it was because, when confronted with evil, people fought back with evil.” (p. 54, Our Thoughts Determine our Lives, 8th ed.)
@@EO-John9540I am not sure of the source but I heard someone advise that we should defend others but not be so quick to defend ourselves. I am quite uncertain on this topic so I appreciate reading what saints have said. I must read more.
Defending others and laying down one’s life for them is totally different than defending ourselves. Modern culture is all about self defense which is a protestant notion. Listen to what the saints say and elders such as Archimandrite Athanasios Mytilinaios and elder Thaddeus.
I'm a bit confused when you say that Christ peacefully speaking the truth in response to being slapped contradicts pacifism. We also don't know that he didn't turn the other cheek while he said this. I'm not saying he did or trying to undermine your overall point, but I think this part is perhaps overstated. I also see the example of St. John the Baptist as potentially an argument from silence. No spiritual father lists everything a person who asks advice should do. They give the most pressing advice for the next step toward God. I'd like to see more on this topic but I think interpretations by saints would be a more useful backbone. There is something so clear when we hear words spoken by those deeply intimate with the Holy Spirit and this is a great reason why I love your videos but it was kind of lacking in this one, although it was a fine video by other standards. But I've never felt the need to respond with uncertainty before, when you supply valuable teachings of saints. I mean no offense brother. I love what you do. This just felt so different to what you do and I realised immediately the sentences were opinion rather than Holy Spirit. Again, that's all well and good if I wasn't used to more so I really don't want you to feel badly criticised (unless you think you're a saint lol) because nothing I'm saying doesn't apply to myself or even the most popular Orthodox youtubers, but I admire less popular channels like yours that leave opinions aside and feed spiritual bread to the hungry souls. Thank you for everything! 🙏
The problem is that this video producer seems to be interpreting the gospels himself. He doesn’t quote this interpretation by a saint. Very protestant and dangerous. There is a priest in Russia who is saying that some of the extremist soldiers on the Ukrainian side are dogs, they won’t learn and they should not be taken prisoner. It is very dangerous for us Orthodox, when we follow even priests who are not quoting the saints but stating their own opinions. What a grave tragedy if a soldier takes such opinions as a statement of the Church and shoots enemies who are surrendering.
What church father are you quoting here or are you interpreting the gospels yourself and stating this as your own opinions? Archimandrite Athanasios Mytilinaios and many Spirit bearing Church fathers definitely hold an opposite opinion to you. Talking about children, that can be discussed, but the rest of what you say seems like a modern opinion without any interpretation or definitive quotes from the Church Fathers. I wouldn’t trust much on the internet that is not coming from the church fathers and even Priests should cut out their opinions and quite the wealth of Saints we have, especially on this tricky subject.
I'm pretty sure lethal self-defense, in the case of war or otherwise, is acknowledged as sinful. These actions seem in no way blessed or imply justification by the Church, but one can seek repentance for taking such measures. In the past, communion has been withheld and penance is imposed by a priest with the condition of liturgical attendance and repentance. With all due respect, I'm simply laity, but these nuances are important. We are sometimes faced with greater and lesser evils, but "Just war" is Latin nonsense.
Why didn't the Saints/ Martyrs fight Rome in the first, second and third century persecutions? Why didn't the church stand up against the Bolsheviks? Why didn't Jesus order His legions of angels to come and fight when being judged by pontius pilate? Because He was not of this world, was the reason He gave. Why didn't Saint Steven fight the crowd instead of praying for their salvation while being stoned? This wasn't his world. This teaching was a protestant teaching to justify aggression, you had to resort to religious leaders of foreign gods to justify your reasoning as I can't recall any saints teaching of justified violence to another human being. It's much harder not to retaliate than to retaliate, but the martyrs mastered this difficulty. Were they cowards?
Even Christ told the apostles to run from one place to another in order to escape persecution. He Himself did in various occasions. Martyrdom is a gift from God not a personal preference. Without Christ we cannot do anything, martyrdom included.
"When St. Cyril Equal-to-the-Apostles was sent by the Patriarch of Constantinople to preach the gospel among the Saracens, in their capital city he had to enter into a dispute about faith with Muhamaddan scholars. Among others, they asked him: «Your God is Christ. He commanded you to pray for enemies, to do good to those who hate and persecute you and to offer the other cheek to those who hit you, but what do you actually do? If anyone offends you, you sharpen your sword and go into battle and kill. Why do you not obey your Christ?» Having heard this, St. Cyril asked his fellow-polemists: «If there are two commandments written in one law, who will be its best respecter - the one who obeys only one commandment or the one who obeys both?» When the Hagerenes said that the best respecter of law is the one who obeys both commandments, the holy preacher continued: «Christ is our God Who ordered us to pray for our offenders and to do good to them. He also said that no one of us can show greater love in life than he who gives his life for his friends (Jn. 15:3). That is why we generously endure offences caused us as private people. But in company we defend one another and give our lives in battle for our neighbours, so that you, having taken our fellows prisoners, could not imprison their souls together with their bodies by forcing them into renouncing their faith and into godless deeds. Our Christ-loving soldiers protect our Holy Church with arms in their hands. They safeguard the sovereign in whose sacred person they respect the image of the rule of the Heavenly King. They safeguard their land because with its fall the home authority will inevitably fall too and the evangelical faith will be shaken. These are precious pledges for which soldiers should fight to the last. And if they give their lives in battlefield, the Church will include them in the community of the holy martyrs and call them intercessors before God»."
@holyresurrectionofchrist Where did Christ instruct to run from place to place to escape persecution? Please quote the chapter and verses. As for saint Cyril, please quote which book, chapter and passages where he makes allowance for Christian's to kill their enemies.
@@twaho Matthew 10:23 "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
@@francissweeney7318 Well sin is when it's in your hands to do good and do not. Say a woman were being attacked as rape, someone can protect her, would it not be good? Where using all verses in the Bible to put a clearer picture. Although if others are willing to put up some money to provide shelter and safety for such a person, guy or girl would be good, be real good, but often start talking about money, that's where others draw the line.
@@francissweeney7318 Jesus resisted evil, that's the whole point of His incarnation and crucifixion. He rebuked the pharisees and saducees, he threw out the money lenders from the Temple by FORCE, he denied and rebuked Satan himself when he came to tempt Him. His followers were persecuted and murdered because they resisted evil as well, following in His example.
Jesus suffered violence. He said pick up your cross and follow me. Jesus repeatedly commanded against resisting evil. Your doctrine is not The Word of God.
Think of this. If a woman can defend herself from a rape attack, it is good. If a man can defend a woman being attacked as in rape, it is good. Are these not?
He did not command His followers to sit idle when evil is committed, neither He did so Himself. The commandment is to not respond to evil with evil, it's not to sit idle and do nothing. You are conflating terms.
I'll say something else, young people should learn how to descalate issues. Which if they control the ego, they really should have self defense training.
I taught myself martial arts for many years. It gave me the confidence to approach creepy people. I felt solid and strong. Since becoming an orthodox christian, I've stopped my martial arts because of the turn the other cheek misunderstanding.
Watching this video definitely helps me. I want to get back into the Martial arts so I can have that confidence and defend my children. Most importantly, I can teach them self defense
Saint Nicholas slapped Arius for being a heretic in the first ecumenical council.
And he was later ashamed of his actions…
@@Cyrus_II Yes, but it was funny. God forgive me.
For me it either boils down to whether I trust Christ or not. I choose not to possess weapons, and to be a pacifist because it’s preferable to die or be injured when the alternative is to harm or kill another person. Either Christ protects me and mine, or it’s time to go home. Simple as.
I’ll also add that this is my choice based on my history of military service and my personal convictions, I think this is a delicate issue that does actually require a modicum of personal discernment, which is why I won’t argue with orthodox Christian’s who make a different choice.
Deescalate (turn the other cheek) whenever possible. Start up a dialogue. But Jesus was not anti-violence. Ask the money changers in the temple who felt the knot of his belt! Ask the Roman Soldiers he occasionally gave his time too. True he rebuked Peter, in the garden and healed the temple guard's ear, but that was because he had accepted his destiny, and the injury to the guard would have blemished his purpose.
If you are attacked, you can defend yourself, even to killing your attacker if you must. But be mindful and obey the laws (what is Ceasar's belongs to Ceasar...) and encourage kindness and consideration where ever you go.
This is why Christian civilization, even as rough as it was in its early years, built lasting civilizations.
cheek turning is for insults, true assult need to be answered 10fold. idk, works.
Hard to comment anything, Hurtifical AI likes psychopaths ;D
Where does it say anyone felt the knot of his belt?
And the meek shall inherit the earth. What it means is this. Those who have swords and know how to use them but keep them sheathed will inherit the earth be a David !
Good message, but music is too loud. Next time you better make it little volumed down
The capability of defending ones self and loved ones makes the difference between a passive man, and a harmless one.
Can't wait to see the dozens of people who comment without even watching the whole video.
slapping someone with the palm in the face wasnt hitting/fighting back than, it was an insult like spitting in the face, there we dont have to do it to them in revenge, we are even called to sincerely pray for them afterwards(important not to fall into spiritual pride in that "they are low level and we are so good..) but as you said rightly, self defense against real violence is fully right and nowhere in scripture it says otherwise. Same as love is mostly misunderstood as "liking", we dont have to like enemies, its about respect, dignity, see them what they are beyond the surface, their essence, but dont like them, same with obeying governments completely misunderstood, as soon as something conflicts with gods law its our duty to oppose it, no matter what governments say or do, for example sexual education in kindergarden is ruled by the government, than fight it or take the child out, we are not commanded to sin because governmnets said so.
great video by the way
Love your teaching
The teaching is to not resist evil with evil (meaning with hatred, murderous thoughts and desires and all the other evil intents coming from the human heart). Christ Himself used violence when He and His disciples threw out of the Temple the money lenders. This was done by force. Christianity is not some pacifist hippie cult. Violence is permitted as long as it is used for virtuous purposes, like defending the innocent for example. If a Christian sees a man beating some child severely in the street, he will not say to himself "Well, I guess I don't have a choice, I have no right to intervene." No, the Christian will act and will use as much violence as necessary to stop the attacker. This is what is right and just and this is what Christ did and would have us do as well.
Yes, what is sin? When it's in your handsto do good and you do not.
But, it spells out clearly, learn not the ways of the violent man.
But, there's Psalms 144:1, blessed is the Lord who teaches my hands to war.
Yeah . . . And that's kinda the exact point the video is making.
@@Noone-rt6pw Excellent quotes.
@@barkobunga2276 My comment was more of a response to some of the other commentators here. I agree with the video completely.
Luke 3:14 " Do violence to no one " Your interpretation changes His words.
The apostles endured stoning and other violence, where there's probably more a lot more where they did not resist evil. Except Alexander the Coppersmith who St. Paul delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh if I recall, where thisguy entreated Paul evilly.
I throw this in to differentiate and have your response. No one wants to endure wrong doing and evil, but if we do, let's make sure it's not for any wrong doing. In this world we may desire to defend ourselves, but in Revelations we read of saints who ask the Lord how long oh Lord, referring to him exacting justice.
Which we say how would you like this, like that? No, we do not like things, human nature we pursue what's enjoyed. Which we are supposed to seperate ourselves from the world..
Which if we lose it and come unglued, where we resist, it still shows our pride and ego. Or we could simply get fed up and annoyed.
Which some like to annoy and such then when Holy hell is unleashed they beg for help when a chance arise.
Which we are also told that we are just sojourners on earth, not having a land or nation.
But in the United States, we are entitled to land and property by law.
Which I'm not arguing, but inserting comparative notes.
Which if we act as brothers and sisters, if someone tries to harm another we would rescue them. We'd support them morally and emotionally.
I mean there's only so many millions of Christians on earth.
Which cowardice is different from peacefulness. A coward is totally different.
Which my worldly self, I have the same idea, where lay pain on the enemy, but tactically. It may take time, but all good things come with time, 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣.
Like leaving military service, that isn't too easily done. Look at Vietnam or Afghanistan for Soviets.
I am wondering who wrote this, what their background is, if there is any reliance on patristics, and why Christians would be looking to Ghandi as an example?
This video is odd to say the least. Ghandi has nothing to do with or teach Orthodoxy. Many church fathers and even contemporary elders do say to turn the other cheek and that non violence out of love for our enemy will win us the kingdom of heaven. And the example of Jesus Christ here doesn’t really explain much. Jesus was also abused later by the soldiers and he showed his humility, peace and love for enemies.
The soldiers baptized by John the Baptist were Gentile soldiers of the Roman Empire? I thought they were Jews who were security for Temple?
does turning both cheeks means not renouncing of truth while patiently enduring offenses?
Jesus never advocated masochistic self-destruction. There are people who only understand force. We cannot allow evil to propagate by misdirected pacifism.
well said brother, but all the logical advise you are giving here and I am with you all the way, does not explain, or consists of an explanation regarding the words from the gospels... nor the examples from other men, or the counter arguments on words. If there was one thing I would say regarding these words, is to take no revenges, as to a harm already done. Rather than, to not defend your self from direct attacks. all this is open to interpretation
This is why Holy Gospel can only be interpreted through the Holy Fathers of the Church (which by God the Holy Spirit, in Synods, canonized the Holy Gospel), and furthermore, to ask "how do we implement this?" We look to our Saints - who are the Gospel in practice - applied dogmatics, as St Justin Popovic says.
Thusly:
Elder Thaddeus (1914-2003 Serbia, WWII, Yugoslavia collapse):
“We should defend one another, for we are brothers - especially we who are of one Faith. There is an example of this in history. Once, when an official delegation of Constantinopolitan dignitaries was sent to the Saracens to negotiate peace, the Saracens argued that Christians disobeyed God’s commandment.
They said: ‘Why do you Christians disobey Christ’s commandment to love your enemies, but instead persecute and kill us?’
“Now a certain Cyril was part of this delegation. His answer to the Saracens was: ‘If, in a certain law, there are two commandments that must be fulfilled, which man shall be more righteous, he who fulfills both commandments or he who fulfills only one of them?’ The Saracens answered, ‘He that fulfills both, of course.’
Then Cyril said, ‘As individuals we forgive our enemies, but as a community we lay down our lives for one another. For the Lord has said that there is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s neighbor.
As a community we protect one another and lay down our lives for one another. Not only is your aim to enslave us physically, you also aspire to enslave us spiritually. It is for this reason that we defend ourselves. This, therefore, is justified.”
Then there is also the example of St. Ionnicius the Great. He was a soldier for twenty years. He was amazing-whenever he fought a battle, he won. He had never been defeated. He never gave a thought to his won life but laid down his own for others. And the Lord preserved him. Later, when he became a monk, he was a great saint and wonderworker. There were many such hly warriors. The Holy King David says: Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven and whose sins are covered (Ps. 31:1). Righteousness acts never in its own interest, but in the interest of fellow men.
(p. 91-92, Our Thoughts Determine our Lives, 8th ed.)
…
In the same year [1987] the elder told this pilgrim of a recent dream. In this dream, he [Elder Thaddeus] was in a large church kissing the icons. “Christ Himself appeared before the icon of the Lord. He was weeping. Upon being asked why He was shedding tears, He answered that it was because, when confronted with evil, people fought back with evil.”
(p. 54, Our Thoughts Determine our Lives, 8th ed.)
@@EO-John9540I am not sure of the source but I heard someone advise that we should defend others but not be so quick to defend ourselves. I am quite uncertain on this topic so I appreciate reading what saints have said. I must read more.
Defending others and laying down one’s life for them is totally different than defending ourselves. Modern culture is all about self defense which is a protestant notion. Listen to what the saints say and elders such as Archimandrite Athanasios Mytilinaios and elder Thaddeus.
I'm a bit confused when you say that Christ peacefully speaking the truth in response to being slapped contradicts pacifism. We also don't know that he didn't turn the other cheek while he said this. I'm not saying he did or trying to undermine your overall point, but I think this part is perhaps overstated.
I also see the example of St. John the Baptist as potentially an argument from silence. No spiritual father lists everything a person who asks advice should do. They give the most pressing advice for the next step toward God.
I'd like to see more on this topic but I think interpretations by saints would be a more useful backbone. There is something so clear when we hear words spoken by those deeply intimate with the Holy Spirit and this is a great reason why I love your videos but it was kind of lacking in this one, although it was a fine video by other standards. But I've never felt the need to respond with uncertainty before, when you supply valuable teachings of saints.
I mean no offense brother. I love what you do. This just felt so different to what you do and I realised immediately the sentences were opinion rather than Holy Spirit. Again, that's all well and good if I wasn't used to more so I really don't want you to feel badly criticised (unless you think you're a saint lol) because nothing I'm saying doesn't apply to myself or even the most popular Orthodox youtubers, but I admire less popular channels like yours that leave opinions aside and feed spiritual bread to the hungry souls.
Thank you for everything! 🙏
The problem is that this video producer seems to be interpreting the gospels himself. He doesn’t quote this interpretation by a saint. Very protestant and dangerous. There is a priest in Russia who is saying that some of the extremist soldiers on the Ukrainian side are dogs, they won’t learn and they should not be taken prisoner. It is very dangerous for us Orthodox, when we follow even priests who are not quoting the saints but stating their own opinions. What a grave tragedy if a soldier takes such opinions as a statement of the Church and shoots enemies who are surrendering.
Christ did not respond with violence against being slapped.
Believe it or not spiritual principles are manifest in the material world.
What church father are you quoting here or are you interpreting the gospels yourself and stating this as your own opinions? Archimandrite Athanasios Mytilinaios and many Spirit bearing Church fathers definitely hold an opposite opinion to you. Talking about children, that can be discussed, but the rest of what you say seems like a modern opinion without any interpretation or definitive quotes from the Church Fathers. I wouldn’t trust much on the internet that is not coming from the church fathers and even Priests should cut out their opinions and quite the wealth of Saints we have, especially on this tricky subject.
I'm pretty sure lethal self-defense, in the case of war or otherwise, is acknowledged as sinful. These actions seem in no way blessed or imply justification by the Church, but one can seek repentance for taking such measures. In the past, communion has been withheld and penance is imposed by a priest with the condition of liturgical attendance and repentance. With all due respect, I'm simply laity, but these nuances are important. We are sometimes faced with greater and lesser evils, but "Just war" is Latin nonsense.
Why didn't the Saints/ Martyrs fight Rome in the first, second and third century persecutions?
Why didn't the church stand up against the Bolsheviks?
Why didn't Jesus order His legions of angels to come and fight when being judged by pontius pilate? Because He was not of this world, was the reason He gave.
Why didn't Saint Steven fight the crowd instead of praying for their salvation while being stoned? This wasn't his world.
This teaching was a protestant teaching to justify aggression, you had to resort to religious leaders of foreign gods to justify your reasoning as I can't recall any saints teaching of justified violence to another human being.
It's much harder not to retaliate than to retaliate, but the martyrs mastered this difficulty. Were they cowards?
Even Christ told the apostles to run from one place to another in order to escape persecution. He Himself did in various occasions. Martyrdom is a gift from God not a personal preference. Without Christ we cannot do anything, martyrdom included.
"When St. Cyril Equal-to-the-Apostles was sent by the Patriarch of Constantinople to preach the gospel among the Saracens, in their capital city he had to enter into a dispute about faith with Muhamaddan scholars. Among others, they asked him: «Your God is Christ. He commanded you to pray for enemies, to do good to those who hate and persecute you and to offer the other cheek to those who hit you, but what do you actually do? If anyone offends you, you sharpen your sword and go into battle and kill. Why do you not obey your Christ?» Having heard this, St. Cyril asked his fellow-polemists: «If there are two commandments written in one law, who will be its best respecter - the one who obeys only one commandment or the one who obeys both?» When the Hagerenes said that the best respecter of law is the one who obeys both commandments, the holy preacher continued: «Christ is our God Who ordered us to pray for our offenders and to do good to them. He also said that no one of us can show greater love in life than he who gives his life for his friends (Jn. 15:3). That is why we generously endure offences caused us as private people. But in company we defend one another and give our lives in battle for our neighbours, so that you, having taken our fellows prisoners, could not imprison their souls together with their bodies by forcing them into renouncing their faith and into godless deeds. Our Christ-loving soldiers protect our Holy Church with arms in their hands. They safeguard the sovereign in whose sacred person they respect the image of the rule of the Heavenly King. They safeguard their land because with its fall the home authority will inevitably fall too and the evangelical faith will be shaken. These are precious pledges for which soldiers should fight to the last. And if they give their lives in battlefield, the Church will include them in the community of the holy martyrs and call them intercessors before God»."
@holyresurrectionofchrist Where did Christ instruct to run from place to place to escape persecution? Please quote the chapter and verses. As for saint Cyril, please quote which book, chapter and passages where he makes allowance for Christian's to kill their enemies.
@@twaho Matthew 10:23 "When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes."
@@twaho No one says that Christians should kill. That is a sin. Even if someone does it in self-defense, he will be under penance.
You have done the same thing The Serpent did by asking " did Jesus really mean what he said ?
"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." (Matthew 11:12)
The fellow established contrast. Where knowing how to protect ourselves and others has its benefits.
@@Noone-rt6pw If you ignore the teachings regarding violence and evil you contradict God. Did Jesus resist evil ?
@@francissweeney7318 Well sin is when it's in your hands to do good and do not. Say a woman were being attacked as rape, someone can protect her, would it not be good? Where using all verses in the Bible to put a clearer picture.
Although if others are willing to put up some money to provide shelter and safety for such a person, guy or girl would be good, be real good, but often start talking about money, that's where others draw the line.
@@francissweeney7318 Jesus resisted evil, that's the whole point of His incarnation and crucifixion. He rebuked the pharisees and saducees, he threw out the money lenders from the Temple by FORCE, he denied and rebuked Satan himself when he came to tempt Him. His followers were persecuted and murdered because they resisted evil as well, following in His example.
What's more important? Helping our neighbors and the poor, or debating theology? Which is more Christ-like? Good grief.
Both have their place, do they not?
This is a theology channel, good grief, if you don't like it then leave!
Is this from a saint?
Jesus suffered violence. He said pick up your cross and follow me. Jesus repeatedly commanded against resisting evil. Your doctrine is not The Word of God.
Think of this. If a woman can defend herself from a rape attack, it is good. If a man can defend a woman being attacked as in rape, it is good. Are these not?
So if someone is raping your wife, you're just going to let it happen?
He did not command His followers to sit idle when evil is committed, neither He did so Himself. The commandment is to not respond to evil with evil, it's not to sit idle and do nothing. You are conflating terms.
"Not Peace, but a Sword" is all i need ot know about "the other cheek" mentality.