Disco Klingons NOT Prime Confirmed??? - Lower Decks: Season 5
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- Опубліковано 22 гру 2024
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There are some Discovery Klingons among the classic Klingons in SNW S2. I think it’s just going to end up like Northern and Southern Romulans.
I always thought that the Disco Klingons would have made a decent "cousin" variant like Romulans and Vulcans.
If they had done that and explained that Q'nos banded together with their cousins when fighting started, they could have had their unique look and not completely crapped on canon.
Instead of having debates of if that god offal design is prime, I think its best to just pretend it never happened.
I mean that is what the Star trek IP hold has been doing... Till lower Decks decied to renmain everyone of it...
Can't wait for the blue ray release, lower decks have been my favorite new Trek. I wish they would do a live action movie with the cast.
Lower Decks decided to bang the final nail into the coffin of Discovery Klingons. To tell everyone "Nooooo Nooooooooo!"
Imagine Picard in First Contact yelling noooooo! 😂
I can still hear patrick stewart calling for help for the many inconvenience inside your average airport toilet.
When it comes to Kurtzman Trek the line must be drawn here! 😂
Not sure why everyone's latching onto this. I'm a card-carrying Discovery hater (and SNW lover) and all this says is that one of the houses of klingons that look like that became the predominant exploratory ones (in that other QR).
Also, SNW S2 has multiple episodes with klingons.
In Strange New Worlds there is a temporal agent in season 2 episode 3. You can see the course of the prime timeline on her TCARS display. Due to the time travel in Picard Season 2 and La'an's time travel in SNW, a new branch of the Prime Timeline is created, which makes a curve and finds itself back in the Prime Timeline in the 24th century. Could it perhaps be that Discovery and Strange New Worlds takes place in the Prime Timeline, but on some sort of side branch? Maybe everything happened exactly the same in the normal timeline, just with "normal" looking Klingons and a ship that looks more like TOS inside and out.
The Cerritos changed into a Sovereign class. Sovereign class not prime confirmed? Just means in another universe that Klingon looked like a Discovery Klingon like in another universe I have red hair.
no
On so….all this confirms is that there are discovery Klingons out there in the quantum verse, not that they are not also in the prime timeline
@@msharp6887 exactly. The Cerritos changed into a Sovereign class. Sovereign class not prime confirmed? Just means in another universe that Klingon looked like a Discovery Klingon like in another universe I have red hair.
@ this is how I saw it. It just means that discovery Klingons exist, not specifically where they exist
Hey don't ruin this for us. This could be the only chance to give Trek back some dignity.
That is pretty much what it is saying. It is the same as lower Decks confirming Janeway murdered Tuvix, making it canon. Now I'm Turtle and I'm a legitimate expert on the Star Trek universe along with a few others I'm very fortunate to be able to make a living because of Star Trek being a die-hard Trekkie who has Trek on 24/7 just like the Trek Yard guys make a living who are great but do make some mistakes just like me but that what humans do no one is perfect and I'm willing to invite yourself and anyone who wants to join and take part in a live stream about Disco and it's legacy.
@ understood……obviously Disco Klingons are an entirely unique group specific to a single backwoods universe.
Unfortunately not.
1, some of the klingons transformed into proto-klingons, which existed in the prime timeline, the implication being they turned into klingons from an alternative universe where they never evolved past that stage.
2. SNW, a direct sequel to STD, also had normal TNG klingons in it, meaning both types existed at least in that timeline. So the most likely explanation is that in LD, the Klingons turned into klingons from an alternate universe where the STD klingons became dominant, not that the STD klingons never existed in the prime timeline.
SNW is a different timeline and also, your 'TNG' Klingons are, in fact TMP Klingons. The design we know as standard Klingons were first introduced in 1979.
I mean they could just use the halo lore reason for why all the covant spieces ten to change every game... "Xenotypes" Which to be fair Humans also have "Xenotypes" It's just Homo sapains are the big boss ones right now...
It doesn’t confirm anything either way on the issue of Discovery being prime Timeline.
All it confirms is that in one alternative universe they STILL look like that at this point in history. Which doesn’t preclude them at one point looking like that in the prime universe as well. I say that as someone who hated the Klingon design in Discovery.
It proves Discovery Klingons were the worst decision in the Star Trek franchise (and that’s saying a lot) and now we can acknowledge we’re all going to move on from them forever.
Agree.
Discovery is no longer canon, that's awesome! 😂But that also means Strange New Worlds isn't either.
Of course the problem there is SNW was directly linked to LD with the crossover episode
Discovery is cannon. Strange New Worlds is as well. Get used to it.
And that's a bad thing because? That show is an even bigger disgrace for how the handled Pike and Spock and the singing and dancing Klingons didn't help either.
@@michaelkata2342 Well then by extension LD itself isn't canon, that's the point. LD, Disco, & SNW are all in the same continuity.
@@michaelkata2342 People are never happy and it seems many star trek "fans" have an unhealthy disposition. Almost like they need to be victims and hate stuff.
I guarantee THIS isnt what they meant people to take away from this.
yeah, it can just mean in an alternative reality the Klingons stayed looking like that into TNG Era.
Could also be a tongue in cheek was of saying the disco designs were dumb, even if they're not "officially" decanonized. It was taking a shot at disco either way
@@Jarsia that's what the producer said it was but he doesn't have the authority to say something is no longer canon.
They didn't realize that a lot of star trek fans are no-life nerds who are terminally online.
@@s0515033 says the person in the comment section of a UA-cam video on a channel specifically focused on Star Trek ships. As long as you're admitting you're also a no life need who is terminally online.
Oh my god care about other things.
Title is incorrect! It confirms nothing.
Mike McMahan has been pretty clear on Bsky he just meant for it to be a fun reference to Discovery and now weirdos who hate fun have taken it to confirm something that was never meant.
Folks really need to chill.
I was just coming here to say this. It's not making a mountain out of a molehill.
I'm sorry you're wrong and Disco Trekkies are not fans Disco Trekkies who give actual Disco fans a bad name and rep which looks like what you are doing That is pretty much what it is saying that it's from an alternate universe which makes sense and is not a bad thing and I invite you to take part in a live stream were you can freely express your opinion. It is the same as lower Decks confirming Janeway murdered Tuvix, making it canon. Now I'm Turtle and I'm a legitimate expert on the Star Trek universe along with a few others I'm very fortunate to be able to make a living because of Star Trek being a die-hard Trekkie who has Trek on 24/7 just like the Trek Yard guys make a living who are great but do make some mistakes just like me but that what humans do no one is perfect and I'm willing to invite yourself and anyone who wants to join and take part in a live stream about Disco and it's legacy.
@@turtletube420 You could take 30 seconds and go to the show runners bluesky to see that you're wrong. You typed this huge mess up when you could have done the bare minimum research.
Mike was trolling the orthodox-prime-Trekkies!
There is a debate on if Trek really needs to explain the Klingon Redesign from the TOS Ridgeless to the TMP Ridged. Got a feeling something similar is happening with the Discovery Klingons
To play devils advocate, what if the Ceritos is in a non prime universe? It works both ways.
My guess is that's the only reason the team was able to get away with it. Plausible deniability they aren't prime either.
That said, there's been a few jokes over the series that "they're the prime timeline". It's also a continuation of TAS, so if TAS is prime they are too.
Also I don't think in the Strange New Worlds crossover, they said anything about the reality appearing more realistic, or theirs being cartoony. Which would imply Lower Decks is in reality, live action, and it's presentation as a cartoon is just what the viewer sees.
@@CommandLineVulpine there's a joke about everyone feeling animated after drinking Orion De'laq, but I'm not sure how to actually apply that to canon, unless the Cerritos crew is all a bunch of drunkards, which based on their behavior, actually wouldn't surprise me. We just get to watch them through "beer goggles" and that's why some things seem "off".
Considering that it is the most Trek series out of the new trek and that It is the only Star trek series to never have a bad season technically when it comes to everything that is important form ratings, critics and fans were as Disco season 2 was it's best tng, Ds9, voy and ENT all got rolling by there 3rd seasons but you do make a logical choice and I invite you to join a live stream to discuss trek if you want
The Cerritos clearly does exist in an alternate reality, a two-dimensional very cartoony one where crew members speak and act in ways that would not be allowed on any Starfleet vessel, It could only exist in the Canon if it was a show that was watched by children on the ships but as far as being Alpha cannon, it's simply impossible with some of the things that they had people say and do.
But as it has been presented, it's no more "real" Canon than bride of chaotica , Fair Haven or Vic Fontaine, it's just entertainment for people on the ship.
They've broken far too many other Star Trek accepted ideas to be considered Alpha Cannon.
So it's a comedy show that is enjoyed by characters within the Star Trek universe, and that's fine.
@@Jack_Stafford @Jack_Stafford I mean that's likely the intention and the "out" like how in prime trek they use the captin's log as an "out". Like you are just running holo programs ddoing "dry" research of all the most important ships and their bridge crews in Star fleet history. So that would make sense and Lower decks in the universe like you said is just a popular holo comedy made by an active duty lower decks crew doing gags as their form of captins log... Which by the way is a real thing ever since aircraft carrer crews got their hands on the cronicoral room... Which I believe their are like 3 massivbly popular comedy movies filmed at sea by real USN active duty personal mostly maintainers and aircrew... So yeah all the lore inarcacies are due to mistakes in the program or more likely you are looking at a reailty not your own... Aka not your headcanon... Which is an isnly good sulottion to the lore debate issue Treck always have had!
Problem with this is... Strange New Words had a crossover with Lower Decks, and SNW is a spinoff from Discovery. So... probably not.
Now if only the rest of Kurtzman's dreck can be wiped from the main timeline or Universe.
The Disco BOP looks like it would fit better in the 32nd century.
@@Melkur1981 except the 32nd Century shown in Discovery also is in the Discovery Timeline
@Nichodo Why would that be a problem?
I feel like there's been too much that ties Discovery into main canon now to fully say it's another reality. I took this as it turned them into a variation where the Disco Klingons became the dominant species.
So does that mean Star Trek First Contact and subsequent movies with the Enterprise E are also a separate reality
Nope, the events of first contact are referenced in Voyager by 7 of 9
Even the Klingon was upset at how he looked. I’m glad it’s in another universe and I hope we never go back there. Discovery sucked so so much.
It’s not saying Discovery is an alternate timeline. It’s just there’s an alternate reality where the Discovery Klingons are more prominent.
It’s why we saw an alternate timeline Garek, Bashir and Dax. In the last episode we also showed that time moves differently in some universe, and was why Tpol was there. In the Prime Universe, she should be dead as she’s older than Spock.
Even in this episode, we saw a Proto-Klingon and it’s not like that was not canon.
3:56 I loved it, the art department just made one of the best moves of modern trek.
I’ve enjoyed all of the new stuff even Discovery, but it just doesn’t fit everything else. This quick scene helps that make since. Discovery is in a different quantum reality where things are darker, bleaker, and visually different.
It’s not only visually different, the stories are different. In old trek, the future was bright and optimistic, in discovery its bleak, dystopian, and dark.
Still entertaining but doesn’t fit everything else in Trek
Fantastic bait headline. The disco klingons are prime. That's not going to change.
I honestly forgot how annoying and pointless this argument is. You can’t make a show in the 2020’s look like a show in the 1960’s and compete effectively for an audience. Stop it. 😮
Batman, Superman, mission impossible, Dr Who, Star Wars…no one does that. It has all changed to fit modern expectations.
Even Gene Roddenberry changed how the Klingons looked and Gen, Chang rocked baldness in TUC The Gorn are different and Romulan women are somehow even hotter. Even those creepy peeping Tom aliens from the Cage look different. Kirk wore drab pant suits in TMP. Tribbles are now meaty and tasty. Uhura wears her hair low and publicly sports a durag. Robert April is black. Is that all not canon/another universe now because it doesn’t fit perfectly with a TOS centric view of what is and isn’t canon Trek?
Btw, Arent you the same fellas that started the debate about the lack of carpet on starships?
Tiring.
DSC is not Prime. Nor then is SNW. I wont change that viewpoint. Too many things dont add up and are just wrong canon-wise. Too many and too big to accept that they are prime. Yes, not everything is one to one accurate in all ST shows (Enterpise and Borg was stupid eg) but majority is so small it pass the border control. But with SD & SNW it leaves me and many others stuck in a thought or feeling that something is very off. That is a check marker for not passing the border control..into prime.
Man, its really disappointing when y'all go back into these conversations haha clearly this sequence in Lower Decks was showing alternate versions, through time and different realities, changing in the moment, but based on the reality of the prime timeline. We got a different version of Bashir this season, for example, and a purple Data, etc etc...but it doesn't mean that they're not in the prime timeline - clearly they are, but each universe has every variation. Continuing to try and find threads of nonsense to grab on to just because one doesn't like a certain creative decision is disappointing. I didn't like the Klingon redesign, but I've gotten over it. I'm sure TOS diehards felt the same in TMP upon seeing the brow ridges too, etc etc - let's just get over it and move on.
No, that scene doesn't mean it's an alternate timeline. Not at all.
Except it literally does.
We had Klingons transform into prototype-Klingons, which looked completely different than modern Klingons. I don’t think this is conclusive. Why the writers of DISCO made the choice to use these different Klingons is unknown to me.
@@ulfsark78the Cerritos turned into a Sovereign class. Is the Sovereign class not prime?
@@nickryan4126 If you actually paid attention, you'll see it's NOT a prime universe sovereign class.
Look at it's nacelles.
@@ulfsark78 But the Oberth class and the Miranda class, which the Cerritos also transformed into, looked exactly like they did in TNG.
Yes! We all knew it. They all knew it. Now everyone knows it.
Remember the each show and movie has to deal with Network BS concerning the various production rights
By Grabthar's Hammer, by the Suns of Warvan, you shall be vindicated!
Thing is that SNW is in continuity. That’s just updated looks rather than destroying the whole thing though.
The show runners already shot this theory down. The various crossovers between shows links them all. They are all canon, all same universe( 70s animated included). Only the Kelvin films are in a seperate universe.
strange new worlds isn’t prime time line visually either and spark doesn’t act like Spock.
It’s much better than Discovery. You got to give them that.
This Discovery Klingon ship were horrible. The future federation ships are also complete garbage. God I hate that show.
I feel your Discovery pain guys, but every other Trek UA-camr like Trek Culture is saying that this does not confirm that Discovery is a separate timeline because they explicitly state that they are changing into forms from their own timeline as well. Nice try though!
That scene opened up a big 'ol can of worms and I'm surprised they allowed it. But it was funny though
I try to think of the Disco Klingons as just one of many members of the Klingon Empire. I’d image there are many “Klingons” within the empire, lots of member worlds and aliens intermingling and fighting for power. Personally, I’ve never liked what Disco did with the Klingons. It simply makes zero sense within the prime universe.
So that's where the Disco Klingons came from. It was sad when one of the Klingon ships changed into an old sea going vessel and all their lives were lost. Also sad: I'm guessing the proto-Klingons killed each other off.
Be divided on this or not, I still use my imagination to blend the possibilities on this multiverse, and find ways to enjoy each Trek iteration even if it doesn’t exactly match my expectations.
It doesn't comfirm Klingons were not Prime Confirmed. Its been theorized and I think partially confirmed that the Disco Klingons was a faction or variant of the klingons that were also very religious or at least very conservative in their line of thinking.
If discovery wanted us to see them as Klingons they should have said these are a cousin race to them, much how Vulcans and Romulans are to one another
People are looking too deeply into this. Lower Deks, while canon, is also a comedy spoof of star trek shows. Not everything that happens is to be taken literally. People who hate Discovery are grasping at straws here to reinforce their obsession.
No, it's just that they reverted to an older look. The quantum inversions changed the look of something and the things if them if they weren't shielded properly. We also see klmgons revert into what worf devolved into
this is kind of annoying fans shitting on shows that shift to scientific realism based on science , in real life aliens wouldn't look like a human wearing a mask because of graphical limitations of the past . people complain it should stay that way , just like they were bitching a reptile species should look like a human in a mask because of limitation 50 years ago. old farts
if only disco was in a alternative timeline but sadly not
It is
@@martychisnall Indeed it is!!!
@@martychisnallit's not
@@everettjohnson9374 It is LOL
That's the time line with the Kling-orcs.
For me everything since Star Trek Voyager (with the possible exception of Star Trek Lower Decks) ended is neither prime universe or canon
SNW and DISCO are in the same universe .. The Klingons changed in Season 2 back to the Klingons we all know. I think it was a joke to show the that version since everyone hated the recon of them.
Feels like lower decks is the DS9 timeline and everything else is a different universe. but then again it’s not. I appreciate the fun of quantum realm tunnel. 😂
So then that means that SNW is not in the prime timeline because SNW is a spin-off from Disco
Ah Lower Decks -- ended because it righted all the wrongs.
I see a lot of Disco fans getting apoplectic, denying what was plainly shown right there in our faces - just as they deny or ignore that the Romulan agent in “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” said unambiguously exactly what she said. Meanwhile, the same folks will simultaneously question, if not outright deny, the canonicity of The Original Series.
The newsflash part of all of this is that it’s ALL canon and can all be “true” despite the egregious ignoring of continuity by both Discovery and SNW. The reason for this is that by Discovery’s third season, someone on the writing team to his or her credit finally got around to watching some episodes of Star Trek and discovered that their was something in Trek’s canon called the Temporal Cold War, which they started name-dropping for the remainder of the series - thus setting up a plausible scenario for Discovery’s anachronistic existence in the 23rd century, not to mention those unrecognizable reptilian aliens they called Klingons.
“Strange New Worlds,” again to their credit, picked up on this plot thread with “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” by outright stating, unambiguously, that Discovery/SNW was in a separate timeline from TOS. “All of this was supposed to have happened in the 1990s” she said (just as it had in TOS) but now everything had changed due the Temporal Wars and now it was happening in 2023 - and she had been stuck on Earth for the last 30 years trying to kill Khan who wasn’t even born yet - and she was losing her mind over the whole thing. (I felt some sympathy for her and I’ve liked that particular actress since her days starring in “Reign” on The CW.). At that point, a separate timeline from TOS was unambiguously confirmed.
Both timelines are canon and both can coexist - and potentially even tie into one another. There’s no reason to deny it or get upset about it.
Totally a different Quantum reality. Ha it's cannon now! Don't care what anyone says.. Lower Decks Lower Decks Lower Decks
I knew this debate was coming and it's STUPID. They became "Genesis" proto-Klingon beasts too. Can I say that episode isn't canon? Cos it doesn't deserve to be. Or how about "Barge of the Dead"? It was quite obvious they became versions from the past, just like if they'd become TOS smooth-heads it wouldn't make TOS non-canon either. I hate that this will be the legacy of the finale of a great series, and I'm massively disappointed at Mike McMahan who knew exactly what he was doing.
Discover is Prime Timeline! TOS footage needs to be updated.
NO!
Na it was just another type of klingon
@@Nichodoyes
@notabannedaccount8362 Don't hold your breath. They can't even give us DS9 in 4k.
@@Melkur1981 But TOS needs to be remastered so the Enterprise matches SNW canon.
I mean Lower deck kinda masterfuilly sovled the whole lore recon thing Trek has had since like TNG... So I agree with the Lower decks mindset... It's all canon you just have to be extremely carefull how you use your Star treck lisnce... Which the Lower decks soltionm is only for Star terk because it's lore has gotten this messed up in it's bvery unique way... Which all complec deep long lived fictional universes all do run into Lore debates even if it's just differing takes on the fafts as well as stuff only the author knows... And should 100% change if the new idea is much better for everyone mostly the creators and fans... Also altyernate canon should be a thing odd people hate that idea so much some how... Anyway I love Lower Decks making the statement with it's show that all star trek canoinb is valid as long as the media is good... Which eve3ryone needs to sit down and thinkj really hard on how they would settle the lore debates in their work... Which if I'm honmest Lower Decks is just saying the quite part out load... They is an industry wide movement to solve their IPs lore debates as they are net negtives for everyone invadled esplacly tghe creators and fans...
They should just embrace the Trek Multiverse: including Prime, Kelvin, and Disco 🙂
I hate discovery. It’s the worst thing they ever done to start trek.
Have to say it again, that Disco Klingon ship sure looked goofy next to a proper Prime BoP
Come on, you're better than this. Don't be those guys.
You know, I remember when Discovery first came out and you two were fangirling over it, I said what absolute garbage it was, and someone replied to the effect of me being a hater.
Now you're claiming you've been saying it's its own universe, because it's not canon. Took you a while, but better late than never I suppose.
Maybe you'll eventually also realize what trash Strange New Worlds is too, with its "modern writing."
First!!
High Five!
Hit that like button!
I consider TOS non prime since it doesn’t match the tech with tng nor the tos movies if we are going the canon route
You can consider anything you want, its a video presentation of a story. The same piece of art will evoke multiple emotions in multiple people.
Stop beating a dead horse. Disco is finished. It's canon. Just move on.
Disco IS NOT canon at all!
@Starweaver1 such a loquacious and convincing argument.
I'm old enough to remember when your people were against TNG, DS9, VOY.
This is the most important legacy of Lower Decks^^
It dosen't mean that at all. Discovery is set in the prime universe. Grow up, get over it.
I mean for real though, designs aside, discovery is a mess of a show. Its just god awful writing, canon breaking garbage. Anyone defending it needs a "i have had enough of you" kirk boot off a cliff.😁
I'm all for anything that makes Discovery even less relevant, than it already was.
No, you are wrong and you misunderstood meaning ot this scene. If you want to play "experts" about this show then you should ask showrunner first as you have good contact with him and CONFIRM meaning of this scene and not "speculate" while posting "clickbait" title.
You know what is missing from mniature? Crying Burnham and Discovery style klingons getting whacked. Next time invite team Nerdrotic, Geek+Gamers etc. to discuss that topic.
Thing is, the creators have confirmed it is prime many a time. They ignore it because it doesn't mesh with how they want things to be, so we get these videos instead.
The wave turned the BoP into an alternative version where it was of that older Disco-style class and the crew were of that particular ethnicity. Discovery references have cropped up in things like Picard and even in Prodigy plenty but, much as I love Trekyard for what they do, they despise Discovery's style so much they will use every avenue to separate it off.
It's their own headcanon. Which is 100% fine, but they will pass it as official canon.
let's not pollute this channel with those grifters.
@@svsguru2000This channel isn't much better tbh
@@MarvelManMike82 It's orders of magnitudes better. Which says a lot about those other channels.
@@svsguru2000 Matter of opinion. At least the others openly admit what they are.
I think it’s fine to pop Discovery into its own quantum reality, maybe each series, each episode is in its own reality, then we don’t have to worry about any continuity errors.
As much as we’re told Discovery and SNW are Prime universe, there are far too many plot and character issues that don’t align with the Prime canon we know, let alone the visual changes. It’s all good, we can just enjoy the episodes as they come. We can accept them as ‘near Prime’ or whatever.
That's called lazy writing.
@ I’m sure you’d do a much better job.
The tos Klingons were different until enterprise explain it. I considered it canon in events of the time line not in terms of the visuals. Technically all the cgi could be changed to more original designs without the effecting the story.
They knew how it would look when they did it, yet they did it anyway. That makes me think they intentionally wanted it to come across as the Discoverse is a separate quantum reality.
Sorry, as much as I’d love for this to be true, it feels like a bit of a stretch. If this theory is correct, wouldn’t that imply that Discovery Season 2 with Pike exists in an alternate reality? And if that’s the case, wouldn’t Strange New Worlds, being a spinoff of Discovery, also take place in an alternate reality? It raises more questions than answers.
Two different Pikes.
@ulfsark78 Seriously? He and Spock literally talk about Michael Burnham. The son of Voq, the time crystals, Pike’s vision of the future-all of it carries over into Strange New Worlds. How can they be ‘two different Pikes’ when these storylines are so clearly connected? Just because you don’t like something doesn’t make it non-existent. Quit being deliberately obtuse.
@@there.are.five.lights They had similar experiences.
But two different Pikes.
Discovery is an alternate reality.
Cope harder.
I do not like the Discovery Klingons, but if that Klingon ship and crew turning into a Discovery style one means that Discovery isn't prime timeline, then equally TNG isn't prime timeline because the Cerritos turned into a Galaxy class at one point.
Watch out Disco Trekkies are going to cry and call you sexist racists and bigots because if you tell the truth and say anything other than Disco is the best and greatest show ever then you actually like a victim which is why Disco Trekkies have their variation of Trekkie and trekker and the sad part most of them don't watch it
Prime died after Voyager ended. I don't even count Enterprise as Prime.
Okay, I had a theory for a while that the animated show writers were unhappy with discovery.
😊🖖👊💪🍻🧑🎄🎁🎄
I wish they hadn't shown this.
thanks god its a christmas miracle those vampire klingons are not part of the prime universe woohoo
Picard is prime
Essss Teeeee Deeee
Yea STD was never prime