How to Make Gesso (Simple + no PVA)

Поділитися
Вставка
  • Опубліковано 26 лис 2024
  • In this video I make a cheap and good quality gesso out of whiting chalk and latex house paint. I also explain what gesso is made of, and possible substitutes.
    View the contents of this video in blog format here:
    www.nadamakes.c...
    / nadamakes
    / nadamakes

КОМЕНТАРІ • 175

  • @RuinDweller
    @RuinDweller 5 років тому +40

    Thank you for the video! However if anybody is wanting to make something like a collograph plate, or something thicker in application than priming a canvas, ALWAYS use marble dust, and nothing else. Plaster or chalk will crack and fall off if you pile it onto masonite, or hardboard. ;-)

    • @larrywasserman294
      @larrywasserman294 4 роки тому

      Thank you so much you sound very young I'm not that old that I was born in 68 and yes paint has gone up it's crazy even stretched canvas but I used to complain about 48 by 36 how much it used to be. cost back in the 80s it was I don't remember but I think it was under 30 or under 20 now it's in the 200s$$$ thank you for what you do I do appreciate it be safe take care

    • @mridulthemild
      @mridulthemild 3 роки тому

      T

    • @Phoenix_Emerging
      @Phoenix_Emerging 5 місяців тому

      Are you certain? Chalk paint, which I believe is similar, seems to hold up fine on furniture, why would it fail on hardboard? Have you tried and tested both? Thanks in advance 🙏

    • @RuinDweller
      @RuinDweller 5 місяців тому +1

      @@Phoenix_Emerging Have you piled 2 inches of gesso onto furniture to test it? Because that's where my problem is - high relief - it cracks and falls off, rather than being flexible. I appreciate everyone's help, but everyone just wants to tell me what should have happened, rather than listening to what actually did happen.

    • @Phoenix_Emerging
      @Phoenix_Emerging 5 місяців тому +1

      ​@@RuinDwellerWhat you're saying is really interesting. I want to try making my own gesso & modelling paste so I'd be really interested to hear more about this. What did you mix the marble dust with & what ratio? Any tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks

  • @arsenioamador2370
    @arsenioamador2370 10 місяців тому +3

    Most informative tutorial on homemade gesso I've ever run across! Thanks!

  • @haleywhitehall7942
    @haleywhitehall7942 5 років тому +23

    I want to try this recipe. I love that it doesn't have much PVA glue and whiting chalk is cheaper than plaster of paris. Thanks!

  • @alejandrodever7678
    @alejandrodever7678 2 роки тому +4

    I have been using leftover latex to prep boards for a while now. Good to know I'm not alone.

  • @estherrobinson8473
    @estherrobinson8473 Рік тому +1

    Wow never knew there would be a recipe for Gesso. Such simple ingredients you should be able to purchase from any hardware store. Much appreciate your video.

  • @elizabethwilliams9032
    @elizabethwilliams9032 6 років тому +8

    Best video ever!! Ty for the video. I love the way u explained all ingredient and how they are used in gesso. You provided a way to make a high quality gesso that exceeds all diy gesso recipes I have seen. I will be making this gesso all the time. What a money saver. Tyvm.

  • @d.c.copeland2137
    @d.c.copeland2137 6 років тому +9

    This is so clever. I would've never thought of whiting chalk but it's an awesome idea, and like you said, cheap! Thanks for sharing

  • @rshinra
    @rshinra 4 роки тому +5

    You do have a beautiful voice, as others has commented. Thanks for this recipe!

  • @yanisilvana4653
    @yanisilvana4653 3 роки тому +6

    Thanks very much for the helpful video. Can you please clarify the quantities/proportions of paint/binder and filler required to make a good gesso?

  • @twycross3
    @twycross3 6 років тому +4

    i recently saw several paintings that had been done with black gesso. He let it dry completely. The effects are awesome when you start painting brighter colors over it!! Instead of adding titanium dioxide you could add black iron oxide. But come to think of it I guess black house paint might do the trick too. Personally I'd try the iron oxide instead of painting titanium dioxide. Shame to waste it like that turning it a different color.

    • @twycross3
      @twycross3 6 років тому +3

      Both of these are good examples of using either a whole canvas with black gesso or a partially filled canvas with it. This guy is the reason I took an interest in using my chemistry knowledge for making my own pigments. In UA-cam type in these searches.
      Bob Ross - Emerald Waters
      The Joy of Painting s21 09 Indian Summer

    • @twycross3
      @twycross3 6 років тому +2

      If you search for bob ross black gesso, you'll find where someone put together all his black canvas shows. Some had dark paint (black and blue) or (black green). Then he had others that were done with the black gesso

  • @dabilover444
    @dabilover444 4 роки тому +3

    Thank u so much!! btw ur voice is so CALMING i love it♡

  • @Annazumi
    @Annazumi 5 років тому +1

    Thank you!! Can't wait to try this. This was a very nice video. I like your sensibilities.

  • @gasgiant7122
    @gasgiant7122 Рік тому

    Very useful Nada, thank you. I love the way you say chalk🤷‍♂️😀

  • @GINAMACHINA16
    @GINAMACHINA16 2 роки тому

    Thank you so much for this video, and thank you for getting right to the point without a bunch of blah-blah-blah.

  • @derekmartin7171
    @derekmartin7171 6 років тому +2

    Thank you Nada! I love the simple alternative and the education..be blessed!🥰

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  6 років тому +1

      Thank you! Im really glad you found value in my work :)

  • @DemetreJosebeck
    @DemetreJosebeck 7 років тому +4

    No PVA! Yes!! Thank you for this video

    • @DMichigan
      @DMichigan 5 років тому

      Latex paints nowadays is PVA. They are not made with rubber latex anymore. Note she mentioned Vinyl Acetate, that is the VA in the PVA.

  • @xXxjjTHEjetPLANEXxXx
    @xXxjjTHEjetPLANEXxXx 2 роки тому +4

    If you don't mind colored gesso then you can theoretically use any excess house paint with the right ingredients 👍

  • @josephtermeer4595
    @josephtermeer4595 5 років тому +4

    Thank you so much for sharing! I love making my own stuff when possible. You were to the point, very appreciated.

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  5 років тому +1

      Thank you for the lovely comment! Its why I make these :)

  • @tamarajancic5090
    @tamarajancic5090 5 років тому +1

    Very simple and cheap. Just how I like it.

  • @veryamir
    @veryamir 3 роки тому +1

    Best video on the subject!

  • @quattourtempora6219
    @quattourtempora6219 Рік тому +1

    Fab and affordable way to gesso large canvases

  • @traceyosterlind14
    @traceyosterlind14 7 років тому +1

    Great to know! Thanks. Have seen baby powder used but not whiting chalk.

  • @pennyb6122
    @pennyb6122 5 місяців тому

    How long can you store the Gesso? Very good ideas. Thank you

  • @yomnamohamed806
    @yomnamohamed806 4 роки тому +3

    I just discovered your channel and I’m completely in love with it, I saw your video where you reintroduce the channel so I don’t know if you’ll still be interested or not but as a person that lives in Egypt I was wondering if could help by telling me where you get some of the stuff and what it’s called in Arabic and stuff for like Gesso and pigments because let’s be honest everything here is super expensive or I just can’t find it, that would really help.

  • @Onlylove994
    @Onlylove994 2 місяці тому

    Thank you! How much it’s absorbent?

  • @robinbest4786
    @robinbest4786 3 роки тому +2

    Much appreciated, Nada - could you clarify the quantities? The mix in the video looked about Three paint to One chalk, but more accuracy would help. Many thanks. Robin.

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  3 роки тому +1

      Ah im so sorry, i kind of eyeball of everything! I would say 4 paint to 1 chalk for a nice grippy gesso

    • @robinbest4786
      @robinbest4786 3 роки тому +1

      @@NadaMakes1 Thank you !

  • @blackmetalmeditation5062
    @blackmetalmeditation5062 7 років тому +2

    Thank you for this video! I will have to make some and use it in my next painting

  • @mablerox836
    @mablerox836 6 років тому +3

    Thank you! Heading to the hardware store now:)

  • @rubengoya8154
    @rubengoya8154 2 роки тому

    BOOM! short an sweet. Thanks teacher💯👍👍

  • @Nomadcreations
    @Nomadcreations 5 років тому +7

    Thank You, For Simplicity

  • @andreeasencios1107
    @andreeasencios1107 6 років тому +1

    Pva or flour or starch or milk + slaked lime= Clear Gesso. To make it white you just add chalk. Latex + slaked lime also works, not need to add chalk here because is already white. To make all about recipe more flexible you just add some drops of linseed oil to them.

    • @andreeasencios1107
      @andreeasencios1107 6 років тому +1

      For oil paint making, you should also add some slaked lime to the oil before grinding it with the pigment. Bone ash was also very useful to produced a quality oil. You don't need much. I would say for one galon of linseed oil, a spoon of slaked lime is enough.

  • @yusraazeem7754
    @yusraazeem7754 4 роки тому +1

    I loved the simplicity

  • @Tara1978Tara
    @Tara1978Tara 7 місяців тому

    I have some Plaid/Waverly matte varnish. Would that work as a binder?

  • @dawnmarie9110
    @dawnmarie9110 6 років тому

    Thanks for sharing, I feel this recipe makes the most sense for gesso then the others I've seen....

  • @Dan-mz5gt
    @Dan-mz5gt 11 місяців тому

    Hello! What should I choose from acrylic paint and latex paint? In my country the ingredients are now shown

  • @rastkokornjaca2768
    @rastkokornjaca2768 3 місяці тому

    Can i apply Gesso made this way on wooden furniture?

  • @DavidTermini
    @DavidTermini 4 роки тому

    This may be a dumb question but I would really like to know what the best proportions of paint and chalk are.Thank you very much for posting this video I know it would probably be OK if I took a guess but I thought I would ask

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  4 роки тому +1

      Not a dumb question at all! Im just a poor artist for not having measurements. I would say that no more than an 8th powder material (1:8 powder to material) to paint is nice!

  • @sanjibganguly7959
    @sanjibganguly7959 4 роки тому +1

    Can you please confirm the shelf life of the prepared Gesso along with storage instruction.

  • @rosemason2071
    @rosemason2071 6 років тому +1

    Very good video and explanation. Thank you.

  • @NugatRensen
    @NugatRensen Рік тому

    Instead of chalk , does gypsum work ?

  • @Brann-w7e
    @Brann-w7e Рік тому

    That voice of your is ASMR

    • @zazzaz6533
      @zazzaz6533 8 місяців тому

      Too wet, made me uncomfortable 😂

  • @sandhyabeswal7172
    @sandhyabeswal7172 4 місяці тому

    Can I use pop powder or white cement

  • @shikadstella792
    @shikadstella792 5 років тому +1

    So only 2 medium, latex house paint + chalk powder for tennis court ,thanks!

  • @thathealthfusionlife
    @thathealthfusionlife 6 років тому +2

    Very good vid and info. Thank you very much

  • @naheekakaan6909
    @naheekakaan6909 4 роки тому

    Thanks 😊 can I use plaster of Paris instead of chalk

  • @RuairidhMason
    @RuairidhMason Рік тому

    Great video!! Will be trying this out for plywood

  • @kelseyhong6340
    @kelseyhong6340 6 років тому +1

    Hello NadaMakes, I appreciate your archival video. It sounds more convincing. Have you tried your gesso on a large stretched canvas? I used various gesso recipes on UA-cam but all of them cracked on my canvas. I paint on a large stretched canvas with acrylic paints. I was very disappointed but I really want to find the solution and make the greatest gesso for my paintings. I have searched and read possible causes and advice from people in the art industry on internet but I really want to hear from you. Would you kindly give me suggestions in terms of how to make gesso which won’t crack on canvas please? I would very appreciate your suggestion, NadaMake.

    • @kelseyhong5967
      @kelseyhong5967 6 років тому +1

      Hello NadaMakes! Send my appreciation for your archival response. It is great to hear that you had no issues. I trust your recipe now even more. So, NadaMakes, is it right that the binder can be used as Gel Mediums by Goldens (as one of the examples) or White Acrylic/Latex Paints as you mentioned in this video? The reason why my first gesso was cracking was certainly from too much filler and not much binder as you reckoned. The ingredients I used include Calcium Carbonate, White Acrylic Paint, White Glue and Water and I constantly compared my gesso to Golden gesso by rolling them both between my fingers. I was trying to find the right ratio by comparing them. But, one strange thing was whenever I rolled both gessoes, I always felt there was a quite different ingredient in the gesso from Golden. The smooth stickiness in the Golden gesso was not easy to produce. But, after pouring more and more White Glue, I thought I made pretty successful gesso for my large canvas but it cracked when I painted on. So, NadaMakes, do you reckon decreasing the amount of filler (Calcium Carbonate, right?) and increasing the amount of binder (Gel Mediums) will create the gesso which will not crack, NadaMakes? I would very much appreciate your response!

    • @becenter9238
      @becenter9238 4 роки тому

      @@kelseyhong5967 hi, please can you tell me the recipe for successful gesso without cracking with number

  • @StrongandWomanly
    @StrongandWomanly 8 місяців тому

    This is what I wanted. I've got a ton of white latex housepaint already. I'll just get teh chalk. EDIT- Unfortunately I cna't get this chalk anywhere near where I live. :(

  • @ravivijay8046
    @ravivijay8046 3 роки тому

    Awesome.It's very useful die making in home

  • @Earthomo
    @Earthomo 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you, very helpful!

  • @ziadchibane3067
    @ziadchibane3067 3 роки тому

    Hi nada, thanks for the video , does the whiting chalk available in arab countries and under what name ? thanks in advance.

  • @teannettemajor1609
    @teannettemajor1609 Рік тому

    Great video. Thanks for the info

  • @jennasmith983
    @jennasmith983 4 роки тому +1

    Hi, I'm new to fluid painting and very much on a budget. I just bought some ultra pure white house primer/ base. Would it be ok to mix the chalk with this to use as gesso? Thank you for the video btw!

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  4 роки тому +2

      You could probably use it just by itself unless you need something more toothy then you could add that

    • @jennasmith983
      @jennasmith983 4 роки тому +2

      @@NadaMakes1 Awesome thank you so much! And thank you for sharing with us all, these videos have helped me rediscover myself when I was in a dark place. It means so much to me because I love creating new beautiful things but I can't afford classes at this time. So thank you!

  • @legacylacewigsllc1617
    @legacylacewigsllc1617 3 роки тому +1

    How many cups of paint!

  • @michaelwhisman7623
    @michaelwhisman7623 3 роки тому

    Could I use crushed up sheet rock?? Scrap Sheet Rock is free.

  • @GnaReffotsirk
    @GnaReffotsirk 2 роки тому

    Can we use calcium carbonate powder?

  • @ralvindizon1140
    @ralvindizon1140 6 років тому +5

    The problem with that mixture is the possibility of cracking... Especially if you use too much filler or calcite.... If you want to lesser your expenses with that expensive Gesso... Why don't you try ELASTOMERIC PAINT.. Less expensive, water solluble and ready made.. I'll guaranteed you it will last long and there's no cracking

    • @mimimenguito2482
      @mimimenguito2482 6 років тому +1

      ralvin dizon thank you. Salamat. I will try that..

    • @maosap2852
      @maosap2852 6 років тому +1

      ralvin dizon you mean use elastomeric paint as primer instead of gesso?

    • @rhyzekarlollanos6540
      @rhyzekarlollanos6540 5 років тому

      What is an elastomeric paint sir? Is that easily found?

  • @sandhyabeswal7172
    @sandhyabeswal7172 4 місяці тому

    Is the proportion 50/50 ?

  • @victorharry8203
    @victorharry8203 4 роки тому

    Wow good tips it help me alot thanks

  • @kennethvandewalker9404
    @kennethvandewalker9404 6 років тому +2

    can plaster of paris be used in place of writer chalk?

    • @DMichigan
      @DMichigan 5 років тому

      Yes, plaster of paris is writer chalk except purer.

  • @CeeJay254Art
    @CeeJay254Art 4 місяці тому

    Can one use filler?

  • @vascocordeiro4512
    @vascocordeiro4512 4 роки тому

    Nice! can you tell what kind of linen you use for make canvas? any linen do? tanks

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  4 роки тому

      Sorry for the late answer! Any fine grade smooth looking one will do :)

  • @marinarose1143
    @marinarose1143 3 роки тому

    What is the ratio of paint to powder?
    Than you for the video!

  • @marylandry440
    @marylandry440 3 роки тому

    Can someone tell me where to buy the whiting chalk? I have been all over San Diego east county, and no one know what I'm talking about when I ask for it. Please I need help!!!

  • @VickyLatorreArt
    @VickyLatorreArt 2 роки тому

    What are the quantities? 1 gallon of paint and 3 cups of chalk? Thank you.

  • @krishanubhattacherjee5736
    @krishanubhattacherjee5736 6 років тому

    WHEATHER IT WII BE VERY ABSORBENT OR NOT? AND CRACK WHEN BENDING THE CANVAS,OR MAKE THE CANVAS VERY STIFF?

  • @jyot3950
    @jyot3950 6 років тому +1

    will that gesso recipe also work for oil painting base

    • @sofisart77
      @sofisart77 Рік тому

      Yes we can definitely use oil paints over acrylic paints or acrylic based gesso but not acrylic over oil..

  • @sapitos4
    @sapitos4 6 років тому

    I'm keeping this recipe, but one question: Does it not end up costing as much as commercial Gesso? If it does, it defeats the purpose, doesn't it? I would like your answer if you are still checking the comments. Thanks a lot.

  • @minisareen2
    @minisareen2 3 роки тому

    Can you use baby powder as an alternative to chalk powder? Also please advise the ratios used

    • @parveen5075
      @parveen5075 2 роки тому

      Yes I think you can, I've seen other people use it

  • @k.k8791
    @k.k8791 4 роки тому +1

    For test you should bend the primed fabric to see if it cracks or not
    Also latex expires after 5_10 years so this is not the best choice either

  • @marialeilanilindt3739
    @marialeilanilindt3739 4 роки тому

    will TALC POWDER do instead of the powder you used?

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  4 роки тому

      Talc would be a bit slippery and finer but you could try a little bit and test it before mixing the whole batch! :)

  • @ameeramohamad7084
    @ameeramohamad7084 4 роки тому

    Hi,thank your for video
    Please can you tell me the gesso recipe with numbers which not cracking after time ,thank you

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  4 роки тому

      I tend to eyeball things sorry! (I think its a north african thing, Its how we learn to cook) but I wouldnt go over a ratio of like 1:6 or 1:5 filler to paint if you wanna be super sure it doesnt crack.

    • @kcajmortsnnew1488
      @kcajmortsnnew1488 4 роки тому

      @@NadaMakes1 not African , i've been cooking ( and painting ) that way all my life
      i came here from a search for mullers , and your vid. popped up i know there are ceramic mullers , but haven't found a source yet , will try scientific supply tomorrow
      yes , the glass ones are ridiculously expensive , as are all "art" supplies
      i salute your involvement with the CRAFT of painting , i've been obsessed w/ saving $$ and knowledge of the tools and materials for 50+ yrs.; a life of poverty , the art life , sort of demands it , no ?
      still experimenting crazy as hell , but oh well

  • @kimwalters9189
    @kimwalters9189 5 років тому

    thanks. I will have to give it a try

  • @TheGoldenlegend1
    @TheGoldenlegend1 4 роки тому

    can you use that instead of white acrylic paint?
    mine runs out quickly and its expensive

  • @XxXFarFromPerfectXxX
    @XxXFarFromPerfectXxX 4 роки тому

    thank u beautifully explained

  • @RT-yc3tk
    @RT-yc3tk 6 років тому +8

    you never said how much paint you used.

    • @veganellapizzabella3003
      @veganellapizzabella3003 5 років тому +1

      I think she said.. a fair batch.. (like 2/3 of that plastic container? depends on your container I guess)

    • @ziadchibane3067
      @ziadchibane3067 3 роки тому +1

      4 paint to 1 chalk

  • @seetv61
    @seetv61 5 років тому

    Madam! I use skin gum diluted in hot water and then ad required amount of chalk powder for my oil work canvass, I am afraid it will be chipping after a long time. Am I correct

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  5 років тому

      I cant give you a clear answer since I dont work with skin/ hide glue. I do know that its used for it elasticity though, but I dont know if chalk is enough. Id do some experiments first before using it if I were you on a precious project.

  • @trapper8015
    @trapper8015 4 роки тому

    Can I use normal white wood glue and chalk to make gesso?

    • @slippersmomma
      @slippersmomma Рік тому

      Yes. Most people add a little paint too.

    • @sofisart77
      @sofisart77 Рік тому

      I haven't tried by myself but i've heard only these two won't work well you should add some white acrylic paint also..

  • @mariad4183
    @mariad4183 4 роки тому

    nicely done girl!
    thank you for sharing :)

  • @xczaineckiel6800
    @xczaineckiel6800 6 років тому

    Can I used powdered chalk?

  • @saltlifegull4091
    @saltlifegull4091 7 років тому +1

    Great video, thanks Nada - just want I needed to know. Sweet voice, very informative, easy to follow. Just two ingredients, that's crazy! Could plaster of paris also be used, as in diy chalk paint? Have you ever used chalk paint instead of gesso? I agree, gesso is way too expensive.

    • @missvickie1975
      @missvickie1975 6 років тому

      NadaMakes DIY chalk paint can be made w unsanded tile grout + acrylic paint (black or whatever color u want)

    • @missvickie1975
      @missvickie1975 6 років тому

      NadaMakes DIY chalk paint can be made w unsanded tile grout + acrylic paint (black or whatever color u want). And DIY chalk sticks can be made by molding plaster of Paris mixed w paint to color

  • @lucillefemine
    @lucillefemine 6 років тому

    Nice and simple. Thanks :)

  • @spudslayer
    @spudslayer 3 роки тому

    AWESOME thank you so much!!!

  • @fluffymittens24
    @fluffymittens24 Рік тому

    Whiting chalk=plaster of paris?

  • @trira1171
    @trira1171 4 роки тому

    Excellent! 👍Thank you! 🙏

  • @chamodias3475
    @chamodias3475 4 роки тому

    What can we use instead of White chalk powder. We dont have it in our country.

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  4 роки тому

      Maybe talc? I do think chalk can be found anywhere though, even if it means crushing blackboard chalk. A better option is marble dust, might be easier or harder to find

  • @jeremynicoletti9060
    @jeremynicoletti9060 3 роки тому

    simple recipe; thanks

  • @wesleymcfarlane9612
    @wesleymcfarlane9612 6 місяців тому

    Thank You

  • @starofthehighestpowers9837
    @starofthehighestpowers9837 4 роки тому

    What about Gesso made with limestone powder?

  • @kavitabhandariarts205
    @kavitabhandariarts205 4 роки тому

    Thanks very helpful

  • @Tufarock
    @Tufarock 4 роки тому

    Awesome! Thanks so much

  • @lyndanelson1234
    @lyndanelson1234 Рік тому

    How much of each?

  • @kenkongz3235
    @kenkongz3235 5 років тому

    Can i use grated school chalk instead of calcium carbonate

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  5 років тому +1

      Yup, it would work! Just might be annoying to grind finely

  • @cindyb8008
    @cindyb8008 4 роки тому

    loved it thank you

  • @AngelDebstar316
    @AngelDebstar316 5 років тому

    Great Idea ty!

  • @mikeloh5665
    @mikeloh5665 3 роки тому

    How can we make anything last 200 years?

  • @samuelgoldie
    @samuelgoldie 4 роки тому

    Thanks

  • @rosebekhechi1933
    @rosebekhechi1933 4 роки тому +2

    You don't need pva glue because acrylic paint is made with glue

    • @kimbam1282
      @kimbam1282 10 місяців тому

      Thank you so much. Because I was wondering where the glue was😂

  • @bluewolf1111111
    @bluewolf1111111 4 роки тому

    How would I make black?

    • @NadaMakes1
      @NadaMakes1  4 роки тому

      You would add black pigment but quite a lot of it I think! (a lot for pigments being a couple of teaspoons)

  • @phillipstroll7385
    @phillipstroll7385 3 роки тому +1

    I love animal skin and bone gesso. I even use animals to make my glue. I save all fish parts after cleaning them for fish glue and paint as well. If we encourage the use of animals instead of not poaching becomes unnecessary and unprofitable. We also cut down on oil costs and clean the planet. All environmentalists should encourage the use of animals and Ivory. Pig, chicken, lamb and cow will never go extinct. Not before humans do anyway.