A Lot of fuss over 3 inches! 😉
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2024
- Utility Knives and Multitools - Are they Legal for Camping?
A discussion focussed on England and Wales law (broadly the same UK wide) for utility / swiss army style knives and going camping etc.
Also check out brilliant EDC video I found here:
• UK Knife Law Update 2023
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It's 3 or 4 years now since I was challenged by a pair of police officers over my 'deadly weapon.' A folding pocket knife with a blade just over one inch long. Traces on the blade showed clearly what it was used for - sharpening pencils (yes, I still use pencils.)
But the blade was lockable and that made it a potential deadly weapon! Please leave it at home in future!
And how did Mr Plod discover my deadly weapon? Spotted it on the keychain on my mobility scooter - 76 years old and with serious mobility issues.
What would we do without such wonderful people to protect us?
I'm sorry to hear that. You're absolutely correct. It's ridiculous.
Sir, you are clearly a threat to the general public.
@avallons8815
I'm especially dangerous with dirty words at 10 paces. 😆
Assuming the police are there to protect the public rather than enforce the law, which you would hope is the same, but in reality the priority of the law is to make people feel safe rather than be safe. Which is why I use mechanical pencils.
Maybe they thought you where going to attach four of them to the centres of yours wheels a do a roman chariot with blades spree around the local shopping centre.
Being able to lock a blade makes it a lot safer to use. So once again we have an example of how incredibly stupid the law can be.
A locking blade or spring deployed blade is no less stabby than a non-locking folding pocket knife.
It does however also make it a lot more useful for stabbing people. A folding blade if slightly yawed centre is going to fold back in on itself if you try to stab with it. A folding knife won’t.
@@jamieeames8934 How many people have you stabbed?
@@jamieeames8934you believe criminals follow the law.
@@GwladYrHaf no. That’s why we have to set a standard for what counts as criminal and have a strong punishment for crossing that line. No point having the attitude criminals ignore the law so there’s no point in having laws. Laws literally exist so that they can be broken so that those who do can be punished and so that others question the risk v reward and not do it.
I expect more law abiding citizens have been injured by their own 3inch or less knives because of the stupid non locking law for these blades. Most crimes that have been reported using knives have been kitchen knives, etc.
Yes - I was opening a can of corned beef, (the key tab had snapped), and my non locking knife closed on my finger. I always carry a travel first aid kit with me after this painful event!
That's the point, a non locking blade makes it very unsuitable for stabbing somebody, it's more likely fold up and injure the stabber.
@@billienomates1606
I'm 80 and I've carried a pocket knife since my grandad gave me one at the age of 6. Never misbehaved with it and resent people who automatically asuume any form of practical tool constitutes a threat to others.
Thing is - I would never carry a folding knife whose blade didn't lock. Anything else is plainly dangerous to the user.
I'm 80 and the knife I carry these days - purely to sharpen pencils and open parcels - has a one-inch blade. Not that long since I was given a warning by police officers who had seen it dangling fron the keychain on my mobility scooter !
Don't we all feel so much safer with such legal guardians watching over us? The kind that took 25 minutes to travel half a mile when my 75yo wife was being assaulted?
would only use a blade that is fixed according to the handle just for safety.
@@DerecqSimple solution is not to stab people. Then you can have the locking or fixed blade knife, my kitchen is full of them. As is my cutlery drawer.
The legislation is moronic.
So are the MPs.
BAN SHARP PENCILS!!!
100%, Colour is part of the legislation... not allowed sharp colours.
Makes sense that the blokes who write these laws are worried about anything above 3" that can stay upright though
I was arrested for a Stanley knife once, it was in the boot of my car with a whole load of of other tools and was being used in a car audio install, It locks which is why I got arrested.
After 3 hours in a cell, before I even got to interview I had two plain clothed officers come to my cell and say they were my late night savour and said the arresting officer was an idiot and should have used some common sense and that they were releasing me.
Got to say, I was pretty nervous about being arrested for a knife despite having it for a genuine and honest reason and it being well out of immediate reach, not that I would ever use a weapon!
99.9% of drivers will go their entire life without the police searching their car.
@@tomtucker83 I got the car searched in Hackney East London, by Officers from Operation Blunt (they seemed to find the name very cool) because they said me helping move a friends freezer was suspicious (they were just making excuses). They found a pair of scissors in my glove box which they demanded to know why I had them. I told them it was so I could cut the cable ties which were keeping my hub caps from being stolen easily if I needed to change a tire. After about a 10 minute lecture about the dangerous of scissors and what they had seen they insisted on putting the scissors under my spare wheel in the back.
In the UK you're only going to get your car searched if your in an inner city neighbourhood with an ongoing anti knife crime operation. Also unfortunately they record the ethnicities of who they search so they are always looking for people from ethnic backgrounds such as white because it means the numbers look better. I had a friend of Chinese ethnicity who used to avoid Hackney as he would always get "randomly" stopped on the street and search by police. Basically to improve their figures of stop and search.
@@davedavids57 I have jobs in East London and the delightful parts of Essex that border it most weeks. Fortunately, only in business hours. I guess I must be lucky, only a few months 'til retirement, so fingers crossed.
Dang , that sucks, glad the released you without any other issues. Not how you want your day to go.
Acab
The increasing legislation covering the carrying of knives appears has done little if anything to decrease their use as a weapon.
Truth is anyone carrying a knife with intent won't worry too much about the law.
Not sure the penny has dropped on this one at legislative levels! 🤔
It always surprises me the amount of police that carry around leatherman tools with locking blades. They have no no good reason to carry them, but a blind eye is turned to this. I know of one case where someone was arrested for carrying a leatherman and when he was being interviewed his solicitor pointed out that they interviewing officers was also carrying a leatherman. After a brief discussion with the custody sergeant, he was realeased without charge and handed back his leatherman
From one Leatherman fanboy to another your free to go 🤣
I had a friend who was detained for carrying a UKPK (knife specifically designed to UK legal carry law). He was a security guard who was providing a witness statement about a fight he was uninvolved in.
It was confiscated as "evidence" but he was never charged (not sure if he was even properly arrested). But we all know an officer got a neat new fidget toy that day.
Tbf I remember a police officer being fired for using a knife with a windshield breaker to break someone's windshield during arrest
I'm so glad there's not loads of cops in the countryside. Probably get arrested for having a picnic.
People were during covid...
Two women got fined for drinking a take away coffee in a park during covid as it was , apparently, a picnic
When I was growing up as a kid we all had knives. It was one of those things. I live abroad and when I worked we used to carry mora knives in the bank at dinner times. I always had 3 knives. Today as a pensioner I still carry a knife as it's always helpful to have.
Pensioner here, man and boy, always had a pocket knife handy, sometimes two as i also carry the knife that belonged to my wife's mother's brother lost in action 1944 and known to have done a couple of tours of duty, I'm honoured to have been considered worthy to own it.
@monteceitomoocher I still carry a knife, Have one in the car to. Just handy bit of kit.
When you were a kid people weren't getting stabbed left right and center by little shits and scared little men.
Imagine being caught with a sharpened pencil.
Ban pencils, its the only way forward.
😂
Funny you say that, I was stopped before boarding an aircraft with hand luggage, they found and removed a small nail scissors. I asked wtf to their reply it could be used as a weapon, so I asked why they hadn't removed my pens. I told them I could cause as much if not more damage with a pen . They looked stunned 😊
@@laceandwhisky That is a TERRIBLE argument. You go saying, But I could kill you more easily with a pen/pencil/my bare hands, you're giving them an excuse to escalate. They know it's true. They've heard the argument many times. They have had plenty of time to work on their response. A lot of things magically BECOME weapons, as soon as you acknowledge that they could theoretically be used that way. You were asking to be taken into the back room and get a guy's finger up your ass, or be barred from the flight altogether.
And your right to not get a gloved finger up your ass, is mysteriously linked to their right to not let you on their plane. If you exercise yours, they will exercise theirs. And a lot of them will do it, too. What you said to them gives them all the grounds they need, to cover their own butts.
An experienced cop would just say "Are you threatening me?", and know exactly how to escalate from there, getting you more and more worked up, until you talked yourself into handcuffs. And some of these people are looking for any excuse to make their day more interesting.
So would a very sharp 3 inch pencil be ok. ?? 😮
I've got a locking knife, roughly 1" blade with Jack Daniels written on it. It came with a shot glass and a 5cl bottle. A Christmas novelty present from a time when the law wasn't quite so ridiculous. Perhaps the police should concentrate on the machete carriers, or would that be waycist?
I'm dreading the day that they legislate against being in public with a sharp wit.
Too late. They brand that speech and "hate speech"
They wouldn’t know what one is.
I'm sure they can bend the rules to make it what they think it is....
They already have
A locking knife is so much handier and safer to use than a non-locking knife. The fact that a law has been made making them illegal is a damning indictment of the state of law-making in the UK. Bad people create crimes not objects
There is no law in the UK that "makes locking knives illegal". You have completely misunderstood the legislation. If rewatching the video doesn't clear it up, maybe go and read the actual thing on the gov website - it's only a 2 minute read at most and uses very simple language.
TL;DR: locking knives are perfectly legal in the UK.
@@bananowyjestemsobie I should've been more specific. The law about carrying a locking knife. A law that effectively makes them illegal as you can only have them in your private property.
The point I was making is that constant need for making legislation does not stop criminals it just hinders normal people
@@mickmcish Carrying locking knives isn't illegal either and it's not true you can only have or use them on your property. I'm not sure where the hindrance is for honest people as the legislation has never stopped me from having and using any knife I needed in any place or time that I needed it at, including larger fixed blades (and yes, I do follow the law, I'm not talking about ignoring it and getting lucky haha). The "criminals ignore the law" argument doesn't hold up. Are you saying we shouldn't have any laws at all then? The whole point of any law's existence is that crims break it and then society has a basis to penalise and/or isolate them for it. These knife laws allow certain people to be detained BEFORE they stab someone. Withouth them we could only punish them post factum. Inb4 you say "stabbings still happen", of course they do, but I guarantee there would be more without a means to stop and detain potential perps on their way to a potential crime scene.
A non locking knife can be very dangerous if you're not used to it and also it easier for an accident to occur.
How do you know when you'll need a knife until you actually need one? Stupid law. Does nothing to prevent knife crime (criminals tend not to follow rules), but can turn an innocent person into a criminal for carrying around a useful tool. I loathe the state.
And me.
I'm more annoyed at the things they ban collectors from having because some idiot goes ape shit in the street, knee jerk reactions banning japanese swords and things while someone behind the wheel of a car could kill more people then someone with a sword ever could but they just ignore that.
Thats exactly why the law exists.
For the police (gov) to extort more money from innocent people trying to work to pay for all the illegul migrunts the terrorist gov traitors import & pamper.
This is the bit that still bothers me, relying on having a good reason. My EDC is a Swiss Army Executive model and my good reason is I may fancy an orange. It's got a great orange skin slicer and pith remover. Or I may break a nail and want to use the scissors and file, or tweezers to remove a splinter, or just use the blade to deal with the shrink-wrap or vacuform packaging that's on too much stuff. I probably don't *have* to carry it every day, but I often use it. I used to carry a Leatherman for much the same reasons, but stopped carrying that because it's got locking blade and the saw is 3 1/8th of an inch and I don't want the hassle if I'm stopped.
I really don't like the way it turns tools into offensive weapons and reverses the burden of proof. If I've just stabbed someone with the orange peeler, then sure, it raises the issue but otherwise it's just a tool.
I am 88 years of age and for as long as I can remember have carried a pocket knife, my current one is street legal and in a leather case I still sail and use my knife for rope work etc. I can’t I again using my knife fir self defence as I would have to take it out of my pocket and remove it from its pouch by which time I assume I would be flat on the floor! I would feel strange without a pocket knife and hope it is never legislated against
Thank you fir an informative summary
Ken
I wonder if todays Boy Scouts carry a small sheath knife on their belts like we used to in the 1960's? It was part of the uniform back then and we were taught how to use them and (just as importantly) what to use them for.
I had a sheath as a boy, I was a boy Scout, it was normal.
I've recently been reading the original publications of the right honourable first baron Baden-Powell. He's very clear throughout that the purpose of the scouts is to prepare men for military service, whether that be formal soldiery or as a civilian militia.
The British scouting association has made steps to keep up with the times, but I fear they have lost something along the way. Their "digital literacy" challenge badges cover rotating passwords and telling an adult if you see something rude online.
The lieutenant-general would undoubtedly have focused on offensive-security, every scout issued a flipper zero.
My swiss army knife is my survival knife, tin opener, bottle opener and corkscrew .
You haven't addressed a "locking or not?" question raised by several on previous topic: What if the locking mechanism is optional? Case in point: "Opinel" style folding knives with a ring next to the hinge (eg. Opinel 08), if you turn it some 90degrees it's locked. (Truly a safety feature!) So it is immediately foldable by default --- but also lockable.
I would guess that in the eyes of the law the knife as the option to be locked, thus it is a lockable knife and so it is illegal.
First of all, the Opinel 08 has a 3.3" blade so it doesn't matter. If it had a below 3" blade, I'm pretty sure it would be easy to get away with because you really have to know that the ring turns, 99% of cops wouldn't figure it out on the spot. If you come across the 1% that are familiar with it and at that very unlikely moment you behave dumb enough to get stopped and searched, then unlucky I guess ;)
I live in a rural area. When i walk my dogs i always carry vetwrap gauze and a swiss army knife. One of my dogs got a very nasty leg wound and i had nothing but poo bags tissues and a phone, all utterly useless miles from home.
Hope they are on the mend.
EDC!
I only took out 3 items which are purposely designed for use outside the home, Utterly useless. Haha what a wally
I worked on a farm in the early 1980’s and walked around with a 6 inch sheath knife on my belt, absolutely no problem back then! It was a rural community not in the middle of a city though. Thanks for the video. Best wishes, Colin.
A friend of mine was in the Scouts aged 15 in around 1970 or so and wore a sheath knife on his belt all the time. Never got stopped or questioned over it. The world has gone to shit and I don't want to be in it any more. Any passing aliens want to give me a lift to a more sensible planet..?
Well a farm isn't a public place so you can carry a broadsword, crossbow etc. on private land
@@leopheard Also had it on in town and into the pub for lunch etc.
Whilst growing up, my mates and I always carried penknives many of the old WW2 Army black handled types, we also carried sheath knives on our belts on our scout uniforms. We never even thought of using them for offensive purposes. At school we would wander to the litter bin at the front of the class pull out a knife and sharpen our pencils. Nobody ever paid any attention except when o e lad pulled out a commando knife and had it confiscated.
As an expatriate, I always used to carry a Swiss Army knife, I had two but only ever carried one at a time. These were bought at airport duty free shops and airport security were never bothered by them.
The Section 139 offence is a complete and utter nonsense. It is poor legislation and should be repealed. The Section 1 Prevention of Crime Act offence. My adult son came to my house a couple of years ago and had to dash out to grab something from his car parked on the road. He hadn't brought his coat, so he borrowed his mum's gardening jacket as it was the nearest to hand. He didn't check the pockets and was unaware she had a small kitchen knife in one pocket as she had been cutting rhubarb. Had that been found on him, he would have had an excellent excuse - no "good reason" and he could have ended up in prison. By all means beef up the offensive weapon offence, but section 139 CJA should be repealed in my opinion.
Fuss over 3 inches? Not entirely unheard of.
My wife used to think those 3 inches were quite important. Not an issue these days sadly...
😂
Stormy Daniels said the same about Donald Trump.
3 inches must be considered large in England
@@GwladYrHaf Yes, especially amongst politicians
I keep worrying about carrying tools to and from my parents house up the road as I've had the cops pull me up for changing my shelf in my garden as they thought i was stealing them
Twice!
So you never know if you are just going to come across a bad tempered copper one day
Next time, ask the coppers to help you hold the shelves. "Hey mate! Can you come over here and give us a hand? I'm changing these shelves, and they are bloody heavy." 😆😆🤣🤣😂😂
A couple of useful terms when describing the knife:
Choil, is the little cut away at the bottom of the blade that allows you to sharpen the whole cutting edge, many knifes do that have this, but your utility knife shown in the video does.
Ricasso, this is the bit between the choil and the handle that is unsharpened.
The length of the blade is from the tip, to the start of the handle and that length includes both the choil and the ricasso.
True, but this guy must have been a CPS barrister because he deliberately told us in the video that it was the blade and not the "cutting edge of the blade" as the legislation says
The laws around knifes have absolutely nothing to do with making the streets safer, what they are all about is making it easy for the police to get a conviction and making the politicians look good and producing statistic that they are actually doing something about the problem.
I can understand the argument that when something is deliberately designed to do harm [military bayonets, stabbing blades etc] then they do not belong on the streets without good reason,
But Literally anything can be a weapon if used with intent to do harm,
and Just because something ‘COULD’ be used as a weapon is no reason for making it illegal.
The law is currently based on ‘INTENT’ and so this should remain, and it should be the deciding factor on each and every individual bespoke case or incident.
The repeated introduction of more and more oppressive laws leads to police overreach and needs to be restrained.
This is why you had the case a few years back where an OAP guy was in an argument with a traffic cop and was charged for having a Swiss Army knife in the car’s glove box.
[the Cop used the knife law as retaliation for the old boys disrespect]
And also the case where another OAP had his walking stick confiscated, there was an ongoing incident in his street and they wouldn’t let him walk past to go home with the stick because they considered it a potential weapon.
When he went to the station the following day to collect it they refused to hand it over because it had been officially classed as an offensive weapon so cannot be returned according to their procedures and guidelines.
[so it was then included in the national statistic recorded for offensive weapons that have been confiscated]
Poland for example has zero knife carry laws and less knife crime than the UK. The problem is not the object but the people. The UK is a multicultural diverse abomination. It's negatives far outweigh the positives.
This idea of folding or locked just shows how stupid the legislation and therefore law is. A folding knife of 3 inches can just as easily kill someone if you stabbed them. What did the Government think when making this distinction? The folding knife would fold automatically when pressed against someone's body and not cause the victim an injury? STUPID beyond belief. Locking knives are safe to use for many applications.
If the locking blade makes no difference, why would you need one😂
A non-locking folding knife is not very useful for stabbing into things like boxes etc, there is a very good chance the blade will fold cause injury to the user. This makes them pretty useless as a weapon, hence the exemption.
@@ziggarilloLocking knives are safer to use, the blade is locked and therefore you are far less likely to have the blade fold in on your fingers and cut yourself causing severe injury in the process. Surely you can understand that.
You are correct that they don't just automatically fold but the chances of it collapsing aren't 0. I believe the idea of that legislation is if you was to stab anything using force with an immediately folding knife the chances of it just closing on you is high enough to warrant caution ensuring you use the folding knife as a tool for cutting rather than stabbing or thrusting.
I have attempted to drill holes in plastic and wood with a folding pocket knife and they just collapse but the chances i would need to do that kind of job while outside walking around shops for example is basically 0. As mentioned in the video you can still use locking knives but you need a good reason to be carrying it.
A folding knife which collapses has a lot of cutting uses such as string, shoe laces, paper, etc and the point can be used with reletive safety if used carefully without force, but it makes them more dangerous to the user for self defence and less dangerous to the other person which I think is the idea. I'd bet on my fists over a folding pocket knife for self defence and i don't ever feel a need to carry a locking knife for anything a folding one can accomplish, which says in my opinion that the ligislation works perfectly.
I believe the distinction with folding and locking knives originates from case law, not actual parliament law. It's a bit complicated and almost impossible to find out what the law really says.
In ireland, they started out banning the carrying of blades over two inches. Now, you'll be arrested if you have a nail file on you
I don't think that's true. The Irish law is near identical to the UK one, except Ireland doesn't have the exemption to allow you to carry a folding, non lockable knife with a cutting edge of 3" or less in public
I built a 5ft claymore for a college project and I walked through my home town with it on my shoulder without a box.
The interactions with the folks in the bus station were funny when I was buying my ticket to travel home.
There was a recent case in the UK in 2020 where a Sikh man was attacked by a group of three men who were armed. He was carrying a kirpan, which is exempt under UK law under religious grounds. The guy killed his three attackers and was not charged.
I'm becoming a Sikh. 😮
Wow‼ Just wow.....😵
Kirpans which ate carried in the U.K. have an exemption, but are meant to be blunt.
Absolutely crazy that you can get around laws just by saying that you believe in a certain flavour of fairy stories.
So if you want to carry a big knife change your religion, sorted.
You said the exact fact that everyone forgets about knife crime, it's mostly committed with common kitchen blades.
I went to Spain to work as a musician. The hotel I stayed at was going through improvements so no restaurant, just a bar. So I bought a cheap Swiss army lookalike that had a blade, a spoon and a fork. It came apart so that you could have a fork in one hand while having a knife in the other.
I didn’t see the need to measure the knife but I had it in my hand luggage on return, it was spotted by Spanish customs who claimed that the blade was too long after measuring against the width of three of his fingers.
I explained the reason why I bought it but that didn’t satisfy him and it looked like he might confiscate it, but, when I told him that since it a only a cheap knife, to alleviate the situation I told him to keep it. At that he relented and returned it to my luggage. I don’t remember it lasting for longer than a month once I was back in the country.
I have carried one of the original Leatherman's since the 90s. As a teacher it came in very useful from time to time. When a child got a pound coin jammed in the slot of the chocolate machine, when a kid lost to key to his bike chain the pliers came in very handy. The screwdivers and blade opened and secured many things, as a Drama teacher for sets and costume running repairs the Leatherman was a boon. So let's not limit the work reasons to manual occupations.
I remember a few years ago my mate was going on a biking holiday, he had a multitool on a keyring which had a bottle opener, mini screwdriver nail file and 1 inch blade. He carried it everywhere and used it to get stones out of tyres etc. He got detained at the airport, arrested and taken away and held for 3-4 hours, strip searched and questioned and then released at a police station several miles from the airport at 3am.
Any knife is always illegal to have in Airports, regardless of size or locking ability.
It's stated that certain places, such as Clubs or Airports, are subject to further restrictions.
@@TobyDenmark
You can put a knife in your checked baggage, so it's not true that "any knife is always illegal to have in airports".
But this is fairly recent: I remember when the airside shops at Swiss airports sold Swiss army knives. It used to be that you could have a knife with a blade of less than three inches in your carry-on baggage.
These days, you can't take a knife or other sharp item to airside through security, but you can take sharp items in your checked baggage.
Yes, this would be secured in your checked bags at all times and then handed to staff almost immediately. What you're referring to is not a legal right but a potential exemption they themselves may allow as their own policy.
By law airports have stricter controls alongside places such as clubs, as prior stated. @@jerry2357
@@TobyDenmarkno it's not, lookup the Conditions of Carriage, the airlines T&Cs follow them closely and they're not as strict as you pretend, but the airports have the same info on the walls but they make out they're stricter, when they're not.
I had a Swiss Army knife confiscated at Heathrow's Terminal 5 a couple of months ago as I'd forgotten it was in my handbag. The main blade on it is two and three-quarter inches (60mm) but they held it up against a scale and said it was too long. I don't recall by exactly how much, but it couldn't have been more than an eighth of an inch or so. Did they really think that a 69-yr old woman in a wheelchair was going to go on the rampage on the plane..? It was only an internal flight to Aberdeen by the way, not an international flight, don't know if that makes a difference. Talk about annoying, it cost £28.47 to get it posted back to me 🤬
If that were the US they would just trash it.
That's what she said!
didn't.
I carry my sharpened wit always.
It’s used as a form of self defence !
I couldn’t even get a dough cutter from Amazon without an over 18 with proof to sign for it.
At the end of my road this evening people trying to kill each other with 18”Machetes so at my age I don’t care what the law is I will carry what I want.
I had an argument with an officer over my pen knife, so glad you've explained it.
I do not understand the reasoning behind the locking distinction. Why can the law not simply use the intent to cause harm clause? Yes if i am carrying a blade and hanging around the streets at night then that is one thing, but people have been charged just for having a tool in there pocket and people have been charged for having a knife on them when going fishing or camping (think that was Scotland). Its crazy.
Why cant they just scrap the stupid knife law all together, it's garbage. Let ordinary people carry the knives they want. Causing harm without reason itself should be what's punishable.
@@TheRealName7 Yeah but if you carry a 12" kitchen knife around with you...
@@TheRealName7because newspaper and TV news companies make money from generating moral panics based on reprinting police press releases about how "knife crime" has gone up a million billion percent in the last week (don't look at the long term trends pls). And politicians can cosy up with the media and the Police Federation by announcing and enacting legislation based on moral panics and saying they're "tough on crime" and therefore make themselves seem important and hopefully re-electable.
The "ordinary people" being affected by these laws is a side effect of the feedback loops created by the above wherein the economic and social causes of people occasionally stabbing eachother (which has happened ever since someone knapped some flint, or snapped a bit of wood). Notice that police and government never, ever ask for fewer new powers, fewer new criminal offences. Nor do they follow the advice of the communities, academics etc who spend decades showing the ways that this stuff can be reduced in the first place. It's better for Kier to be able to look tough and demand the highest rate of imprisonment per capita in Europe go higher still!
(also like most laws except ones affecting those who have expensive lawyers on retainer, the writing of the legislation is not informed by input from those outside of police, the CPS and politicians)
love to know your take on fixed knives, i carry them for work and they are often in my kit bag in my boot
I know someone who was stopped by an event security bag search, with a ornament/trinket knife on his keyring. Less than an inch long, no cutting edge to speak of, but it did have a barely functional lock which he wasn't aware of. It went to court and he was found guilty, even though everybody involved thought it was a waste of time. It went on to have a impact on his life.
Check out Single Justice Procedures for lots of fun examples of the direction things are going in.
Technically a folding pruning saw is illegal without a reason, however I do not think many people carry those around for assault. Mostly it is common sense. As for camping I take an axe and a fixed knife because I need to cut vegetables and wood for my stove.
my brother used to carry one around for defense it was very intimidating looking he only opened it once when some chav threatened to set his pitball type dog on him. he changed his mind after seeing the saw.
What about a 4 inch fixed blade carried in the middle of the woods, surrounded by evidence that I had been using it for Bushcraft? (Creating feather sticks, tinder, kindling, etc, from bigger logs? - this would basically render bushcraft illegal - even if on private land, as one would need to convey the knife to that site.
I can’t foresee problems with that!
@@BlackBeltBarrister Oh I can. The problem with police is that they're like little children....when they don't get their way they throw a tantrum. They WILL "find" a reason , they won't stop until they do.
The worst, saddest part of this is the the average ordinary person simply cannot afford people like you to defend/argue their case - I was once told by a solicitor that their rate was 3 hundred pounds per HOUR, at a time when my WEEKLY take home pay was less the £200 - The police know this, and its used to intimidate and threaten, and to get their own way.
From advice given to scout leaders for transporting - they recommend packing it first in a bag or box so that everything else is on top, giving yourself the additional excuse that it wasn't "readily accessible".
They recommend a steel lockbox in a car boot, though this may only make sense if you have a collection of "dangerous weapons" to secure.
@@lakevna thanks for your reply - sounds like good advice. I just wish we had clear guidelines for ‘dangerous weapons’ - I sometimes carry a machete… because I am clearing bush on a farm! A knife is a tool which can inflict harm - but so is a cricket bat. The law must allow for that.
@@BlackBeltBarrister thanks for your reply. I just wish we had clear guidelines for ‘dangerous weapons’ - I sometimes carry a machete… because I am clearing bush on a farm! A knife is a tool which can inflict harm - but so is a cricket bat. The law must allow for that.
Yet in the 1970s I carried a machete externally tucked into the rucksack frame around Exeter…. Now that was a knife at 14 inches and had seen service in ww2. No problem then but I had been rough camping for two weeks. Never any idea of doing wrong.
@BBB - there was a discussion on a related forum about the UK interpretation of this around a tang that helps you open the blade more easily, the "flipper tab" was brought up and the creator of the forum said that it had been commented on by someone in Government related to the implementation of the regulations (no idea who or what they were but the implication was that they had some technical authority on the subject) - the flipper tab is a natural part of the blade and assistive in helping someone open the blade particularly important for someone who has impaired movement (or like me with near no fingernails, youtube makes me nervous). They said that banning the tab would be tantamount to infringing on a part of the knife that is intended to assist the disabled or impaired; I'm being VERY rough in my recollection of their point here but in a general sense that was the claim they said they'd had "verified".
That tab is genuinely important for opening one-handed, it doesn't increase the length and affords no locking mechanism. You've displayed a Spyderco blade which had a finger intend which would permit your finger to stop the blade closing if held in that way, have these types of elements ever been tested by the courts?
My personal concern is for EDC (everyday carry) - my intention is to carry with me several items including a pair of small multitools (non-locking) and other equipment such as paracord, torch, USB drives, screwdrivers, etc. on a daily basis (I'm an IT guy). Have you any perspective on these aspects at all?
If it's for your job AND you are actually during your working day, then it's legal. That's what BBB means when he says you make your case "robustly". He has a level of legal knowledge and speed of legal thought which makes this much easier for him, but that's open to all people to do the same. NEVER accept a caution except after formal legal (qualified) advice. When I go down to my smallholding, I carry a bag-load of sharp objects for use (and often a chainsaw!) and no scuffer can stop me from doing so, because I am in my working day and I have a GOOD EXCUSE, which is not the same as "what a scuffer thinks is a reasonable excuse".
All this crap came about because some yob was caught in a disco with a lock-knife, and was prosecuted; the judge held that the lock was illegal. That's right, it was just his damned opinion in the moment. Everyone lost the right to carry a Leatherman on their belt "just in case of need" because of one yob and one compliant judge.
@@richardjames4632 was that the genesis case of it? The lock was breathtakingly idiotic, I had a slip joint close on me and cut my finger when unboxing a server many years ago. My question to BBB about the tab is more related to the daily carry beneath justification requirements.
I have a victorinox rambler been carrying it 30 years and never felt the need to carry anything bigger, its perfect, it has a knife, scissors, nail file and bottle opener on it.
It's about the blades penetrative area of effect ie from point tip to its handle.
"You're what's called wrong" 😂😂
I have a knife for field craft. I am more worried about being stopped with the knife over the rifle or shotgun 😂
There are many many good reasons to carry a pocket pen knife. Locking or non locking, it doesn’t matter, a leatherman or swiss army is an expensive bit of kit. Carrying a cheap kitchen knife pinched from the kithen draw down the back of your jogger pants is a very different game
I carry a telescopic baton. Never had to justify having it. I just like the feel of it when im nervous. It comforts me.
Not a 'baton', please. A 'carrier bag rod' for use with multiple bags.
@@jm19592011 yes. Perfect!
Also illegal in the UK. Be careful out there.
It's your God given right to defend yourself.
@@TheRealName7Not in the UK it would seem.
I live in Canada, I have always carried a locking blade in my pocket, some have had a four inch blade. I carry them everywhere, the pub, the shops, everywhere and so do many other people. Some how we all manage not to stabby stabby.
i always carry when river fishing and always will do regardless of any legislation as i need a good size tool for killing and gutting any legal fish i catch and for using said tool to clear out any dead or fallen debris such as branches from my swim and occasionally theres other dangerous debris such as rope that i feel the need to remove from the water (could be dangerous to kids that swim in there during summer or to myself when wading) a non locking knife is also not safe for using in the way i use it when fishing (would likely eventually cut off a finger) and it never leaves my bag unless its going to be used for obvious reasons
In Australia, a Bishop Mar Mari Emanuel was repeatedly stabbed in the face and neck earlier this year, whilst preaching in his church building. Resulting in the lose of his right eye. The attackers knife folded shut during the attack and severed the attackers fingers and almost certainly saved the Bishop's life. So maybe this legislation does have some merit after all 🤷
do not lie, especially not about a bishop
@@ballistic9644 look it up half wit, it was cover by MSN
Another point is that I believe the legislation about carrying around knives and offensive weapons in general includes having them in the boot of your car.
You mention multi tools the main one that would be massive clarity would be the leatherman bond which is advised and sold as uk legal but seems abit of a grey area with the way the blade folds
I always carry a leatherman or a swiss army knife, just be aware that it will be confiscated if you take it to an airport when flying or if you go to a court. I went to Guildford Magistrates court on my way back from work to pay a fine for someone else, metal detectors picked up my Leatherman and they wanted to confiscate it, luckily I was able to give it to my wife who then waited outside.
Yeah, I had my Swiss Army knife confiscated at Heathrow, they said the main blade was an eighth of an inch too long (it's 2¾ inches). They obviously thought a 69-yr old woman in a wheelchair was going to go on the rampage on the plane🙄
Stolen. And who gets to keep it?
@@stedmangruff Oh I got it back, but it cost me £28.47 in postage costs 😡
Postage at that price is still daylight robbery - a penal charge making a big profit from your mistake. RIP off Britain. At least you got it back.
I just put my SAK in the checked luggage when we fly to Spain and put it back on my belt when I get outside the customs area. I do keep a swiss card in my wallet and only once was it examined.....the security guy said " neat and handy, where'd you get it, just don't get it out while you're flying" . I thanked him and all was well. Go figure.
Very nice video. I carry millions of things on me, including a knife. I also have the bladeless Gerber MP600 multi-tool. My knife is a sub-3 inch folding non-locking Spyderco Squeak and I keep it clipped inside of a zipped up Maxpedition pocket organiser in my trouser pocket. I wanted to go above and beyond to prove it's not carried with any intent of being a weapon because I do not have super quick access to it.
Would be very interested to hear your take on all the material published by the met and the london mayor's office about how "there's no good reason to carry a knife". Since several reasons are explicitly laid out in the legislation this would seem to be far more misleading than any of TV Licensing's material.
Also to mention, I have heard of cases where "carrying for work" was considered an inadequate excuse since the person was still carrying when they had stopped at the store on the way home, rather than leaving it in the car or making a separate trip. I dont have caselaw to cite on this one though.
It seems that they have not read the law, because there is good reason to carry one otherwise the fucking legislation wouldn't have the words "without reasonable excuse or lawful authority".
Owning knives is a responsibility. I don’t carry large locking knives with me to the shops or down the pub for some good reasons. 1. They are bulky and add unnecessary weight that I don’t need to carry. 2. They can be lost or stolen. 3. I have little to no need for it in those situations. 4. I have a small SAK. 5. I have very little need to play stupid games.
When I did carry a locking multi tool it was for work. It was my responsibility to check that it wasn’t in my pocket after work. I think the rules against all locking knives is dumb but they are only one reason amongst many to leave them at home when not needed for a job.
That thumbnail question is as daft as asking if it is legal for a scuba-diver to carry a knife, when he/she is going diving! It qualifies as an essential tool.
Only if you walk with fins and mask on
2:10 - LMAFO!!!!! That is one of the funniest and most British things you have ever said
I wanted to buy a beautiful folding Damascus knife whilst on holiday, but when I looked at the knife I noticed it was locking. I explained that the locking feature was a legal quagmire in the UK, and asked if they had any that didn't lock. The guy looked at me like I was crazy and said "But...if it doesn't lock, you could get hurt". I didn't get one in the end, but that's the view that other nations have towards our laws. Criminals do not obey the law, so overly strict laws serve no purpose other than to punish and control the law-abiding masses. If the law does not distinguish between a 3 inch locking knife and a machete, the criminals may as well carry machetes, whereas those who just want a functional tool have to jump through hoops to not be considered a criminal.
the guy who 21 years ago tried to rob me at knife point (he failed) had a rather large kitchen knife but never took it out of his coat, just showed it to me.
I've learned so things today. I thought the relevant measurement was of the edged section, not the whole protruding metal piece. Thanks for putting me right. I carry a SAK every day, and camping knives when, er, camping. I used to carry a Stanley 99E and a cut-down scalpel for work.
From the www.gov.uk/buying-carrying-knives website. It’s also illegal to:
carry most knives or any weapons in public without a ‘good reason’
sell most knives or any weapons to anyone under the age of 18
The exception to these 2 rules are folding pocketknives that:
have a cutting edge no longer than 3 inches
are not lock knives (they do not have a button, spring or catch that you have to use to fold the knife)
As we have already seen.
The pen is far more dangerous. Yet no one has legislated or licensed them yet.
When are they moving on to regulating scissors lol
Can you carry a single side of a broken pair of scissors?? I'm taking it to the shop to replace with the exact same scissors, right?
They already do, they're classed as offensive weapons if you're carrying them without good reason, same as everything else, and collapsible scissors are straight illegal.
@@jimmydesouza4375 So my 1-inch blade folding travel scissors are illegal? Insane!
@@xo2quilt Depends on what the arresting officer considers to be the start of the blade.
Seeing as most knife crime is done with kitchen knives and/or machete type instruments then the legislation is flawed
I’ve watched your videos from across the pond just out of curiosity. Just thought, if no one else has mentioned it, it might interest you that the way you measure blade length in the USA for purposes of law is the same. I grew up in Chicago and was a police officer in the late 80s. The measurement is taken from the beginning of the exposed blade material. I believe this is true in New York State as well. Other states might have different case law.
A Lot of fuss over 3 inches!
I can't remember how many times I've said that to my husband...
As a child I usèd to buy my own pocket knives and play up the mountain... now as an adult over 50 the knives I bought are illegal... absolutely pathetic laws in this country.... ridiculous actually, and a non locking knife can be more dangerous than a locking knife if used incorrectly.
I took a knife out to one of the back alleys the other week to remove the magnetic seal on an abandoned fridge. I remember when i was a wee laddie not to play in abandoned fridge/freezers because you can quite easily get yourself stuck in one and suffocate. Hopefully, that was a good reason to have it with me.
The problem was not with magnetic seals. They are easily opened from inside. The problem was entirely limited to those older refrigerators and freezes which used latches. They have all been taken off the market.
@@TheEulerID I remember being told that when you close the door, you're breathing creates a difference in air pressure inside and it's more diffficult to push the door open. Either way, scared me enough to never go inside a fridge.freezer and remove the magnet on abandoned ones anyway.
Years ago there was a journalist for The Guardian, I think, and he’d just been away on scouts weekend.
During the week he was driving through London (towards a bridge I think ) when 2 policeman step into the road and stop him. The one explains he has a trainee with him, he’s conducting a training exercise and would the driver mind if they searched his car? Well they did and found a fixed blade sheath knife in his boot. They were going to prosecute this middle class proffesional and the only reason they didn’t was because he got his story run in several broadsheets. He did make the point, it wasn’t fair that he be prosecuted or 2. be able to influence the decision not to because he had more access to the press than the next man.
Take away: once a body politic starts down a course and gathers momentum, then common sense might no longer carry and weight.
He was searched under terrorism legislation I think.
From what I have read the measurements are from the end of the handle around the curve to the tip which would be longer than a straight line
Hi, whilst you are on this subject would you please answer a question for me. I have lots of knives accumulated over the years none of which I would dream of taking out of my house for any reason. Therefore I have a fair knowledge of what makes a good useable knife. So when the new knife laws came into effect I was disappointed to realise that I could no longer take it with me for circumstances that although good reason in my mind may be considered not a good reason by a judge. For instance in the car, taking my dogs for a walk, etc. So checking on my leathermans all of the blades are sub 3 inch. However as you no doubt are aware all items are locking. After taking one apart I deduced that I could grind away the locking mechanism on the blade so that it would not lock and also it would not be possible to return this blade to be able to lock. This therefore make it a sub 3 inch none locking pocket knife although it retains the other functions.
Now this is my question what about the other items or screwdrivers files saws scissors can they still be locking? Because some of these would be very difficult and dangerous to use without the locking mechanism. The backwards and forwards motion of use would more than likely cause the item to fold thereby trapping the finger's and with the saw imparticular cause severe harm.
If as I am aware you can not answer due to legal restraints were can apply to find out a definitive answer. Having suffered from the vague interpretation of the law in the past I do not want this to happen again. Under most normal circumstances I would consider common sense would prevail however as I am sure that you are only to aware some police officer's these days would rather try and charge you than see common sense in the situation in front of them. I have just considered taking my modified leathermans to the police station but I know that I won't get a straight answer and also have the chance of having them seized under the pretext of some unknown reason.
Many thanks John
@@johnstott140 just carry it, the weapon is the mind, not the tool
God bless you mate, those aren't really saws, they're serrated blades used mostly for cutting rope.
I work for uk HMG.
The government employed HSE officer has banned all of us including highly quallified machinists and engineers & scientists etc, from using Non Lockable blades (any and every length) and Only permitting the official purchase of fixable blade knifs.
The strange thing in NZ, where I live, you cannot carry any knife at all unless with reasonable excuse. My son’s an electrician so is permitted to carry one during his working day.
Excellent, straightforward guidance that sets straight many urban myths.
No, he has missed out some important pieces of legislation here. He has forgotten that the legislation says "cutting edge of the blade must not exceed 3" instead of "the blade must not exceed 3" which is what he said, and he also forgot that an offensive weapon has to be made, intended or adapted to cause INJURY to a PERSON. Something that doesn't cause injury or dog spray isn't an offensive weapon by law
Please discuss the exemption for historical re enactment as lots of knives swords etc at medieval events that I attend and just about everyone is carrying one or the other
My son is a re-enactor, when transporting his swords they must be "properly secured". At the time I checked with the Police (some years ago) I was told that they need not be in a locked case but had to be wrapped and secured in such a manner that it was not obvious what they were and also should take some time to release; that is it should not be possible to whip them out quickly. There also needs to be a legitimate reason to have them with him, they can't just be hanging about in the car. It is also a good idea to have some proof that you are a re-enactor, a club or guild membership card for instance.
He can only wear or carry them openly at events or on private property for demonstration or training purposes, not on the street where they would be considered offensive weapons
A further point about re-enactment weapons is that although they are obviously dangerous in nature they cannot be edged, that is, they are blunt with no sharpened edge.
That would be a valid reason.
Thank you for that information. Most useful. Stay safe. ATB.
I carry a small boot knife, an OTF karambit a multi tool and a good flashlight which I find as important as a knife.
The prohibition on locking knives is frustrating. A locking mechanism is a safety feature, not designed make it a better weapon. It's laughable that a one inch locking blade is prohibited, yet a three inch folding knife is ok. It makes the law look stupid, for its sheer arbitrary nature.
The last few times that I have travelled by abroad motorcycle, prior to boarding a ferry I have been asked "Do you have anything with you that may be considered an offensive weapon?" I have always assumed that they mean the obvious: guns, knives etc. and always answer "No." while imagining that almost anything in my bike's (fairly extensive) tool kit "may be considered an offensive weapon" if I took it out with the intention of causing harm with it. Surely it's the intent not the object?
My friend was just in court for having a "bladed" article upon his person...it was a tin opener of some 2 inches...the JUDGE advised him to plead guilty as it was a bladed instrument (via a 3rd party)...it was such a convoluted case and it had been adjourned so many times he went guilty...sentence 9 months imprisonment suspended for 9 months and 1 year probation...this is 100% true...less than 6 months ago...👉♾️👈
A fucking tin opener? I'd have to see the case itself but that sounds horseshit
@leopheard I understand but I saw the "bladed article" before he was nicked...it went on for 3 years!!!
If there's one thing I'd change about the law it's the exclusion of locking mechanisms for folding pocket knife. Daft to not permit a useful safety feature for law-abiding citizens. Meanwhile, your average roadman isn't deterred at all by the wording of the law, his knife doesn't fold at all and is usually 12 inches long.
The law is an ass, but not so much as the MPs that write them.
Good video (also the previous video you did). Just for the general audience: remember people that other countries have their own laws, some of which are even more restrictive than the UK. In Ireland, for example, any blade, or sharpened object, is illegal, no matter what the length, or whether it's immediately foldable or not. This includes ALL ultility knives, kitchen knives, scissors, swiss army knives, screwdrivers, anything and everything. You could of course have a good reason for carrying a utility knife, or swiss army knife, just like the UK, but if the police decide to charge you with possession, then you'll have to defend your reason in court. The default position is that ALL blades and pointed objects are illegal to have in public.
I wonder if you could do a video on antique weapons such as victorian swordsticks or old bayonets. Obviously, you wouldn't carry them in public except for taking them home from an antique shop/auction but are they legal to have at home as a collection? Also, is taking them home, suitably wrapped, a reason to be carrying them for the purposes of taking them home?
Simply can carry a non locking knife with blade 3" or less tip to handle eg medium swiss army knife in all circumstances (not large)
Homeless people are often charged with possession of a knife. Do they have a defence for carrying a kitchen knife where they have a need to cook but no place to store a knife like a homed person?
Same for someone hiking or cycle touring.
I'll vouch for Gerber. I've EDC'd their knives for years and never had a problem.
I am totally at loss how you all feel free at all. UK laws are mindblowing to most Americans. I am here looking at my 7inch fix blade that I open carry for no reason other than I like to do it cause it makes me feel cool and safe. Your courts are there to make money and slaves out of normal people. I was in a pawnshop (oklahoma usa) and there was an officer in there and I asked about the legality of the swithblade I was playing with and this officer said in general they don't care about the knives until they are used in a crime, then it's just a knife used in a crime he said they don't even look at the type of knife it was because all knives are just that, knives. We have such lax laws here compaired to UK .
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I thought that the law stated "a cutting edge of no longer than 3 inches". "Sections 139 & 139A". Heinnie Haynes (a leading UK knife retailer), sells knives as UK friendly that have a blade length of over 3 inches but a cutting edge of 3 inches or lower. I think verification is needed here!
In one of your other vids you showed a non locking Spyderco blade that you have. These knives, when the blade is deployed, have a portion of the blade that has a finger choil section, making it part of the grip. So where does the blade start in this scenario? I’m assuming it’s where the finger choil ends, even though this is part of the metal section it’s technically the handle.
*I have 3 variants of this knife for different reasons. One is short and I take it with me when I’m out on a day trip, one is just over 2 inches in length and it’s my everyday carry for my work as an electrician, it is corrosion resistant as I sometimes work in the wet, and although I only use it when I need a sharp clean edge, I often a favour my utility knife (“Stanley”) and it is used for 99% of jobs. I also have a 3 inch variant that I rarely use, it’s a little threatening looking to be honest, and in truth the shortest knife is a far more sensible/practical blade to carry (it’s the Spyderco Squeak).
Good video; every so often, BBB gives unusual insights and excellent advice - although it's not advice!
I do like the play on words in the title.
As for banning sharp objects it's a complicated issue. Last year me and my coworker were threatened with a screwdriver by a homeless man. Should carrying screwdrivers in public be banned? Of course not. That man should be banned from carrying anything like that. It will never happen tho.
Can you carry a screwdriver without having a good excuse for it?
@@henrykg No! If you carry a screwdriver long enough to be used as a stabbing weapon in law (over 3”)…in public where not required then it is a weapon. Circumstances alter cases! So needing to use it to drive screws, in a high street..let’s say fixing a sign to your shop IS a valid reason, thus permissible. Wandering the high street carrying a long screwdriver is not legal without that valid reason.
@@contessa.adella OMG. I was going to joke about whether it's acceptable to carry as a male a p* in pants longer than 3", but now I'm afraid of the possible answer.
I am aware that there is a problem with violence in the UK, but the government chose to treat everyone like a criminal rather than finding a solution. However, I'm not sure what the issue with pepper spray is - you can't kill with a pepper spray...
You can be prosecuted for carrying a screwdriver, depending on the circumstances.
2:00 (have a cutting edge no longer than 3 inches) From .gov website itself. Reasonably this is taken as the sharpened portion of the blade not the recaso or choil. Stating that its measured from the choil, using case law to arrive at this conclusion insinuates that all citizens have an obligation to keep informed on every case that may affect the outcome. and that the guidance on the .gov website is factually incorrect and could actually lead someone to unknowingly break the law!
You should check out the Canadian laws. they are INSANE. I can carry a 12 inch or longer single edge, no serrations, knife, concealed. If I want to carry openly I need a 5 inch ish knife, and then the cops decide if I am breaking the law, based on their feelings. Oh and sword canes are legal.