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@TimFletcher I'm adhere to the preterists view of the "last days". But what are you doing if you are married to a wife with religios trauma and she is punishing you, because you have a happy Christian lifestyle?
I don't think I can express adequate gratitude for your videos. I'm in my 70's and although I knew my family was extremely dysfunctional, until 3 years ago I did not know of CPTSD or the extent I had been traumatized.
I am not far behind you in age and I have been searching for this all my life, actively since 17 yrs. old, and this is bringing the concepts home that I have needed to make some of the major conclusions now that heal me. It answers why, when my father insisted we go to church, we said, "sure, Dad", and spent the time gone driving around! 🍧 That was all of the rebellion we dared muster up!
@@CynthiaSchoenbauerA dose of humility would keep you studying the Bible.Exodus 33 Jehovah said further to Moses: “Go on your way from here with the people whom you led up out of the land of Egypt. Journey to the land about which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘To your offspring* I will give it.’+ 2 I
This video speaks VOLUMES to the experiences and suffering I’ve endured from Catholic religion. I watched this video twice and the clarity I received has devastated me all over again😭😢😭. I am so glad to have found your channel and TRULY am thankful for displaying for victims what religious trauma really is, and the effects of what this trauma can bring in one’s life.💔 THANK YOU🧎🏾♀️➡️
@ yes it’s a painful combination. Especially when we truly didn’t deserve the psychological baggage it carries in our lives. Sometimes just breathing in existence for ONE day can be a great triumph. We are warriors whenever life tells us we’re not.❤️
I was a pastors mistress yes i know i had huge personal issues to be in this role. But power and control in the church is super real. Now i realize how much shame was there and also when you have complex trauma as a child its easy to accept it 😢😢
@@teznejensel9099 what of all this fear of God?Deuteronomy 19 New International Version Cities of Refuge 19 When the Lord your God has destroyed the nations whose land he is giving you, and when you have driven them out and settled in their towns and houses, 2
This is a wonderful video which explains religious abuse so well. I recently left my church as have had enough of the gaslighting and minimalizing. The worst aspect was since I lost my husband, I've had very little support. Basically the church promotes that grieving a loved one is frowned upon because it shows a lack of faith. I was devastated and am taking a break from organized religion.
Far out how twisted was their teaching. Grieving is pure. Can't be faked. Jesus said in Hos Sermon on the Mount, blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted.
@@jbellbird9050 that was my experience too when I lost my great friend. I was so sad and grieving and decided to talk with the pastor, only to be met with judgment because if I was a true believer I wouldn't come to him with such stupid questions. I quote. Actually, 2 pastors told me that.
@@jbellbird9050 Romans 12:15-16 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.
@@Jennifer-gr7hn Me too. I was raised Catholic but since my parents acted "nice" it escaped me how much control they had. Severe depression did not even make it clear. I just knew something must not be right!
Recognising abuse in any form is what God gifted me with. I started seeing it after my husband betrayal. The more I learned about narcissists and sociopaths, I realised that my parents are narcissists. My mother convinced me to stick to my abusive marriage. Trying to escape. I had to block my mother after told her numerous times to stop sending me religious giffs to make me feel guilty for going against God or telling me that she paid the priest to pray for my soul. I'm developing my own relationship with God, and that's ok. Thank you Tim. Having someone like you voicing and validating this trauma helps me heal. I'm passing this knowledge through behaviour change to my daughter I'm breaking the inter generational cycle of trauma and abuse. I was born and raised in Romania, living overseas now away from people with limited beliefs. Thank you God.
You can't have a relationship with the invisible and the imaginary. The difference between you and me? When I'm on my death,, I won't be fearing an imaginary Hell.
@@benjamindover5676 you might want to investigate what others who didn't believe in hell until they died and went there...there is a lot of investigative work being done in Near Death Experiences. I had one.
wow, you hit that nail on the head. been separated from that org for a number of years but still battle the internal self punishment and ptsd of my experience. i think this connected some areas i have struggled to overcome.
Yes, all therapists, pychs ask me if I can go to church to get relief from my mental ills. Um, no.... I've been traumatized by many church people. There's a saying that all thieves hide in church.The percentage of narcissists is off the chart. It's Place where vulnerable people go to get help and certainly get taken advantage of.
Turn the other cheek and honor thy father and mother. Great advice for a child being abused by a narcissistic father! Basically just made me feel like I deserved the abuse.
@lynn -My father was a pastor, he s*x abused me and shared me with other pastors in and outside the denomination and all the church leadership/staff. I have been learning about narcissism for about 5 years now, since I married one and most of my relationships were with narcs. It wasn't until about a year ago, I actually realized he was a covert narc. I kept getting shamed/blamed/abused in the churches I went to and finally quit going.
I didn't even know you had a video about religious trauma until now. 3 videos back I told you I was an ex jehovahs witness. See! You are perfectly understanding my life problems. I need your therapy or help so much. I know this isn't much but thank you from the bottom of my heart
I was raised in the JW mess!! Father "Elder" and Mother "Pioneer"... I'm glad people are waking up! The WT along with other cults have played a dangerous game with our mind! People are becoming unhinged because it was set up that way! Hopefully people will begin to see the spiritual healing that is going on and leave these satanic and demonic cults immediately!! Stay safe! 🌻
@southernbawselady7092 After I left, a surrogate mother still deeply involved told me the Watchtower printed an article that stated that we all needed a little brainwashing. I couldn't believe my ears. I sourced that copy, and sure enough, in black and white, there it was. Most of them are so indoctrinated that they'll NEVER be able to know they are totally controlled.
@@robotaholic ex JW here too! Experienced this and took 5 yrs to get thru the guilt and feeling like I was going to die at Armageddon....finally so happy...glad I left
I appreciate this video so much. I am a daughter of a former minister. I didn’t see the abuse until later in my life. I am healed of much of it now, but I appreciate the confirmation. There is very little information about this subject.
I was raised in a fundamentalist home. I left at the age of seventeen (got married). I sensed there was something very wrong in that home, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. I knew what was wrong in the neighbor’s home. There was drinking, screaming, cursing. None of that happened in my home, but something very pernicious was at play. Now, I realize my intuition was spot on.
You have way too small of a sample. Search "According to research, countries with higher rates of Atheism tend to be considered more prosperous and happy,"
I think some of the biggest abusers are in the church. What better pool of targets than people who are trusting, vulnerable and looking for some type of relief from the world? I have always had a deep desire to belong to a community and this person exploited that. They had this pious image when I personally saw character that was nothing like this(a good con artist). It’s so hard to trust people anymore and I find myself getting triggered the moment I walk in a church now(kind of like I’m on wolf alert!) 🐺 I feel stuck because I know I can’t stay isolated but the thought of doing this again is just so daunting. I will watch your videos, thanks!
My father, a pastor in a well-known denomination, sex abused and trafficked me to other pastors and priests as well as the church leadership/staff. I have been abused by other church leaders over and over again as an adult. I finally said enough after 30 years of seeking a healthy church. Last year, I realized father was also a very effective, covert narc. I do believe there are a few good churches, who truly serve Christ but I haven't had the blessing of finding one. My faith is solid for I know the Bible and the truth Christ showed us. With narcissism being a valued trait in the world today, I think it is much safer to isolate - I get that. Agree that this is the place for truth and healing.
I left a high-control group (a cult by the BITE model definition) just over a year ago because I serendipitously found out they taught false teachings about the Bible and Jesus/Christianity. The pain from the realisation of their duplicity, the subsequent hostility after questioning the doctrines and the eventual shunning by people whom I could have taken a bullet for has really sucked. Then, the betrayal trauma triggered underlying C-PTSD rooted in childhood trauma that has just led to a cascade of discoveries and further pain. It has been a tough few months and I reckon there will be many more months/years, but let me not digress. I am very grateful for this video - I think everything, or at least 98% resonated with me. I am especially grateful because you mentioned at the end that it was possible to see that the HCG experience might have been useful. You do not realise how much shame I have been battling because my experience in the cult felt so positive, and in a weird & painful way led me to learning how to properly study and interpret the Bible myself, and to discovering who Jesus really is (towards the end of my time there and since leaving). I have felt very conflicted knowing that they deliberately taught falsehood and had a toxic culture, yet saw that I was quite happy and made some undeniable, major life progress as a result of being part of the group. Sigh. Prior to that group, I had experienced gosperity culture, word of faith, NAR, etc which were also very harmful in their own ways, and this group had initially presented themselves to be faithful. They gave me a sense of purpose, structure and community - plus true, the music was great too :'). I have since realised that I can get these from other places that aren't even church, but honestly it just feels like overwhelmingly hard work. NGL everything just feels so much harder and I find myself going back to passive suicidal ideation more these days (favourite pastime before joining the group, alongside chronic daydreaming). Also easily triggered and on edge, isolating, crying/weeping constantly, etc. However, there is now a hope inside of me that somehow gets me through the day - sometimes I even feel resentful to that hopefulness which I suspect is the Holy Spirit (?). I lived with depression for a long time so hopelessness was my first nature. Even now I don't want to go on, like I have zero motivation, but in the midst of this I feel, heck in fact I "know" that I can/will. I should be grateful, right? I don't know - I am just tired.
You are Describing the religion I grew up in. I was 4 when JW knocked on my parent’s door. Started a study. One year later Dad & Mom were in. Mom grew up Mormon but grandma hated going to church. So when my parents moved to a small community not knowing anyone, Mom was lonesome. She like reading the Bible. 3 more kids were born after me. So they didn’t have the memory of celebrating Christmas and my birthday. When a teenager I questioned doctrines we were being taught. I read context, chapter at a time. Dad got very angry with me and demanded I read Jw magazines and books. They would teach me truth about the Bible. There literature made me depressed. You had to give answers out of literature only at meetings. You didn’t dare not give opinion, debate or express a different interpretation. Jw Didn’t call it church ever . But by the time I was 16 I was put on probation. Then disfellowshipped by 19. I ran away from home at 17 to marry outsider to get away from this oppressive group and my dad . I was alienated. That backfired, my husband joined my parents religion and he wanted no children. I had miscarried. He went to prison being a conscience objector to the draft to Vietnam War. I divorced him . And was on my own. I Met a Christian man just home from his tour in Army from Vietnam. We married in 1969, I was 19. 55 years ago we are very happy and I recovered from living in a cult nightmare. I became a Christian at 30. It took lots of work and read every book self help psychology books. Topics were Toxic parents, family etc on the market. I made a commitment my Bible is my guide. Humans fail us ! But I learned not to be a failure to me or to others or a victim captured for life. I have scars but worked on healing wounds when one would open up. I now take care of my 95 yr old mother that spent her whole life in the cult. She wonders why she did that. But she has dementia so we keep it light. We read the Bible only. We don’t let JWs in our home. It’s been a huge blessing to take care of her. Women are walked all over in those KHalls. Mom could not tie her shoes right for Dad. We are just doormats to work and support abusive self absorbed men. Gossip and tattling on others was commonplace. All of us kid left in our teens or 20’s. One sibling has started his own beliefs. He’s demanded I trust him and treats me very disrespectful. Women can Not have positions of authority over a man. they are stuck in a legalistic mentality. Our relationship has totally disintegrated. Our father was a narcissist. The trait looks so familiar I can’t handle it anymore. Finally learned what this narcissism is all about. I listen to 2 counselors on UA-cam the past 2 years. At 74 you never quit learning. It actually fun to discover yourself and learn to be better and healthy. Respect others no matter the events in our life. Those that won’t respect, want to hurt you and want to use you like doormat….. WALK Away! Sometimes you have to divorce a relative for peace of mind . They offer no peace ever, just empty words, anger, all knowing my way or highway, come out of the person. Gets very angry if differ in opinion or facts on Anything!! This video is an Amazing learning opportunity! Thank you!
That you point out that the basis of religion is COMPLIANCE completely works for me. Now I realize I lost my entire sense of self to forced compliance and this answers one of the biggest questions of my life. Thank you Tim.
❤ excellent video. Points that resonated with me- 2:40 people who grew up with abuse are often drawn to fundamentalist churches bc they feel relieved by the certainty of the doctrine; the Black or White teachings align with their own need to make sense of a confusing world. 4:20 What a great description of how a compliant person can easily adapt to a toxic family or group without seeing the reality of the harm done to them!
This video was very helpful … I’ve been “absent” from church for about 12 years … I’ve grown more spiritually and now see the “abuse” so much more clearly. I’ve recently decided to attend church again (as the leadership style has changed over the years) but I am now only going on occasion and will not succumb to the past influences it once had … I want to attend because I love the unity of worshiping together with others. I’m on guard … and will take it as a social gathering and will engage with the positive attributes that it does have. ALSO: I had most of the “religious traumas” on the list !!!
I've heard many awful stories about various kinds of religious abuse. I was raised in a New Thought church. A good term could be "toxic positivity." As in, if you are feeling bad, just think better. If something bad happened, it's because you are thinking bad. Even a broken arm. Deny medical help, rely on the training. Kids have died, in that system. No kindness, no pity, no understanding. Required medical care was bitterly protested. Other religions dissed, as inferior. We were carefully taught to not complain or whine or visibly suffer. Fit right in with the narcissistic parents' behaviors and their desires of us, to be quiet and good always. Kids are such annoying and tedious burdens you see. Although they have their uses. Sigh.
It's really hard to compare bad. Awful is awful, no matter what flavor. It's so dependent on so many things. Like, two different people can and do react differently to the same treatment and circumstances. Some break where others do ok. We live in a broken, imperfect world. Our very successes seems to invalidate someone, somewhere. I'm extremely wary of simplistic conclusions. And that's ok.
I was raised in a very strict household. Much of this resonates. As a young adult I had eating disorder, alcoholism, anxiety, depression. Still dealing with the trauma even at 60. I have felt rage beneath it all. I don't like religion
You just described me. I am 60, I have come to realize that I will never fully heal on this side, but I can continue to heal. That the journey of healing doesn't have an endpoint, it is just a spectrum.
@@paulamaggsart I totally get what you are saying, it is me as well. Hopefully, we are a source of support to others that are struggling too. I usually respond to the question, "what is your religion?" by saying I am a follower of Christ. I do not follow religion, I follow Christ.
Thank you for this video. Your videos are so helpful for me. I had a lot of negative experiences at fundamentalist Churches. However, having come from an alcoholic family, I needed a foundation. And it gave me that. But I left when I could no longer live with the constriction. I miss the community of people and the sense of belonging, but that came at the price of denying my own intuition and my own way of seeing. I am still healing. I am deeply spiritual and follow a spiritual path that fits me.
Spiritual is just another word for made-up, imaginary, or supernatural. You are on your own, there is no magic anything. and this is the only life you will ever have.
@@Angela-zj5sxThere is no evidence for anything like that. It's just wishful thinking to make you feel better about dying. Who you are, dies when your body dies.
God bless you Tim this is exactly what I needed to hear. After deconstructing from religious abuse I am thankful for the early years of Bible study yet am just now going back to church- with caution. Mostly because I miss the fellowship and the work of the Holy Spirit as we seek Him together. So much better than being by myself yet I had a lot of healing to do. God never left me though. Thank you 😊
You worship, revere, honor, provide cover for, and demand respect for the exact same holy text and god as the extremists/terrorists do. You believe in the exact same holy text that literally commands and sanctions the murder, genocide, and killing of non-believers, homosexuals, adulterers, and non-virgin brides on their wedding night. And sure enough, today the religious are literally killing non-believers, homosexuals, adulterers, and non-virgin brides on their wedding night. You should know better and people like you,, ought to fear a real Hell.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This video has explained everything I am going through and the dilemma I am experiencing wanting to leave the church I am in. The isolation and subtle 'punishments' is too much. The worst thing is I know I should leave but I don't trust myself enough to do so. It feels like I am on the wrong. I have tried to talk to leaders but they dont want to 'gossip' or slander. Its a very lonely experience and one can be tempted to comply....But I thank God for this video. This happens so much in Africa. May God bless you. Watching from Kenya
Ex JW here - was born into that cult. The amount of anger issues & depression that came from never feeling good enough to petrified as a young child thinking I was constantly going to die, worried about people I loved that were going to perish at "armageddon" literally messed with my head for years, grateful I left 20 years ago But this has been a lifetime of scars However I try to remember that feeling of gratitude when the penny dropped & I realised how what I had believed Was NOT true & overwhelmingly Relieved to know this cult was not Right in their decitfuk doctrines they follow.
Excellent honest truthful information. Thank you so much for these videos. Being LDS and baptized at 8 years old without informed consent is in itself psychological abuse.
Getting away from religion has been the best thing I’ve ever done . I have been given clarity on who the creator really is by the author himself ,rather than the fallible ideologies of mankind .
Well,, if there is a God,, then that God created all life via the established fact of evolution. Do you have any idea just how horrible and violent the evolution process is? With a god like that,, you don't need a devil.
When I first became a Christian, I was sent to a discipleship school. I had no previous childhood discipline, and so I just thought that the dean of the school must know what God wanted for me. I failed miserably in the first year, but I was still sent off to the second year, which was set up to evangelise in a small outback town. I self-sabotaged, and then I was sent back to the first point of contact. I asked if I could stay there, but I was told No! I had to do my first year again in another state where I once again I failed. I wanted to go home. My pastor said there was no biblical reason why I should return. So, I just counted down the days until the end of the year. I felt totally helpless. This was the pattern of my teen years. Being sent away from my mothers house to my fathers. I went on a downward spiral. So, I was sent away to an alternative school. I ran away. So this story was told back to front. But you get the gist. My life was a string of trauma after trauma, and then I saw your videos, 6 years ago and I understood what hadj happened to me
Love your videos! I’m on a healing journey and started watching you for like a while now and now a lot makes sense. I can now understand why I feel the way I do.
I have listened to this5 times already and shared with those who grew up in this type of trauma. Thank you for truly understanding what I have been trying to understand for over 60 years and have paid far too dearly for
I have been waiting to watch this one and I wasn't disappointed. Thankyou Tim for your teaching. I have been actively going through a process over the past decade or so of learning for myself what the Bible says (and with God's help, what some of the ''tricky'' passages mean). I know I've healed a lot, and matured. However, I hadn't termed my experience as a survivor of religious trauma until now. Through your examples, I see more damage than I realised (I don't blame anyone - it was part of the system, as you say).
I am a recovering person from complex trauma in house of origin + religious trauma which was an “outgrowth” of the internal structure… LORD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL FORGIVE US.🕊️🕊️🙏
Religion trauma is a huga problem in our communities and how sad that so many people are being affiliated i just left a high controlling Religion Jehovah's witnesses what a relief but is not an easy process to overcome but God is great im getting through roller-coaster phases of healing with his help and support from family members who are not jws God's favor if for everyone he loves all of us and that's enough! We dont need the delusion Religion is selling to people that they're instrumental to gaining salvation. Smh😢
Thank you for discussing this topic. I'm no longer religious but still in the process of healing from some of the trauma that religion caused me. I don't know if you've already done a video on this, but in the future I'd love to hear your perspective on how to deal with family members who are still in religions who hold toxic beliefs and/or engage in toxic behaviors associated with their religion who think that you are the problem for no longer being a part of the toxic religion.
I am so sorry for all you have been through, I have a feeling the truth will be revealed to your indoctrinated relatives in the coming days and months. May you be completely healed and blessed in all areas of your life.
I can't tell you how grateful I am for this video. I have felt for a long time that I have experienced and continue to experience religious trauma. I was looking for information on this topic and finally found your video. Many different emotions flooded me. It is a very painful topic to me. But now I got at least a hope that I can save the remnants of my faith in God.
@@marcamp5450❤I feel the same I am thankful for his openness and courage.(I am intrnyionsly the word ",obedience", although biblically it would be an appropriate one, however it has.been Doo emyird and twisted and compromised by abusive application of religion that just can't stand it...)
I wasn't even sure I wanted to watch this as to this day, I cannot step into a church without feeling sick to my stomach (and I'm in my 60's now). Most of my religious trauma came from my immediate and extended family and was strongest in my childhood. I could say yes to all but 2 of the things you mentioned. My experience made me completely turn my back on Christianity (it NEVER felt right to me anyway, which was most of the problem since it was forcibly shoved down my throat and I was dragged to many places I never wanted to be). I wound up diving deep into the occult, and then adamantly embracing atheism. In my 30's and 40's I explored some other religions, but mainly Wicca and Buddhism. Eventually I declared myself a "Solitary Eclectic" and was at peace with that for many years. Recently however, I am struggling again to believe in anything and lean more again towards atheism. As I get older, the thoughts of even my spirit living on forever scares and depresses me. This life has been a struggle and very painful and I honestly just hope I go to sleep one day and that's the end of it!
PK here, at 16 or so I understood my father's religion for what it really was. Immoral bronze-age magic nonsense. Once you realize that, there is no need to ever look back. I became so well-read on the subject that now I would never need to waste my time on any Christian apologetics. There is ZERO chance that anything in that silly bible could ever be true. ZERO!
@abby - we have some similar experiences. Have you ever thought to ask God, if He exists, to reveal/prove that He does? I did this at age 25. Amazing things began to happen in my life. It was then, I realized what I sought existed. That He loves me unconditionally and wants to be in a relationship with who I am, not what someone else says He wants. My life journey completely changed.
@@newsongsung1147 asked "Have you ever thought to ask God, " Yes, most of us Atheists were born and raised in the church. Most of the Athiest movement is led by people that once were leaders in the church. So we know our religious siht. OK? So let me ask you,, could someone else also have their life and journey completely changed by something that does not exist? By something not real. moral or worthy of worship? Could they? And if "yes" then you would have to agree that you could be wrong? And your logic is NOT the path to truth. Please answer.
This is for all religions, not just churches. Ppl are abusive by choice and by habit and rationalize it bc it is so pervasive in our world. Ppl who actively seek a role of power and influence over others, politicians, religious leaders, executives, media, etc are abusers very very often.
Your courage to broach these issues is wonderful. I have so much respect. I am curious as to your relationship currently to the church. Wondering as well to your take on Rene Girard, who has provided me with so much insight to my own experience as the scapegoated child.
This is so on point! Families often remain in denial when one of them suffers from religious OCD. As they are usually the ones who have built that trauma within themselves.
Thank you for this..I brought this up on my channel when I was on social media. That was Very telling on how widespread it is and people don't even know. My experience was an extension of my dysfunctional home life. Excellent video! Ty.
I am not sure if I am the only one experiencing this... but for me, the things that are being framed as helpful and life-saving, namely religion and the psychiatric establishment (with their polydrugging and biomedicalizing of mental distress), are the very sources of trauma that haunt and cripple me. These powerful bodies inflict trauma and deny trauma, all at the same time. They just silence me with the Word as well as more labels and drugs. I don't know who to turn to, how to get help, and how to free myself for good. Nobody from the professional field knows how to help me, and even wonder why these things that are supposed to "help" me have harmed me. I have no idea how to live my life anymore. My dad, who understood me the most, has passed. I am all on my own. All I want is to be with my dad.
Yes to most of this I am going to have to watch again because this triggered some lingering PTSD but this is definitely a core wound from early childhood.
Theres a special place in hell for pastors who abuse people. It happened to me two years ago. I dont think i will ever step foot in a church again after 32 years of being active in church. Church was my life, but im too disgusted to join a church after the pastor said he was having sexual fantasies about me and was obsessed with me calling and texting all day long. He wouldnt stop talking about my body and i should have known then but he acted as if the rules didnt apply to him and he hid in plain sight behind his role as a pastor. If your in IL stay away from Bob Carden at Align ministry. They guy should be in jail.
@andybowkerhere Yes. When he said that I was immediately triggered. I should have remembered it just reading the title!!! I was constantly reminded of "the anointed" and was rebuked. "Get away from me Satan" was told to me all the time if I mentioned anything of truth and was never given a compliment. Religious covert narcissists are modern day Pharisees.
I believe this to be a sad but true reality of the church today and is one of the main reasons why people are leaving in such huge numbers. The doctrine of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ has been twisted and reframed to fit the human agenda thus becoming the doctrine of man rather than of God.
I recall carrying so much shame, guilt and self-disgust for having sexual feelings and when I had lost my virginity at 20, which was late 30 yrs ago. Took me many years to accept myself and not feel bad or dirty.
I was raised in a religious cult. My parents couldn't distinguish fantasy from reality. Endless gaslighting, shaming, future faking. The cult was narcissistic to its core. I was raised in the Catholic Church. The cult wants people to believe that they have flawed souls (although the cult can't demonstrate that people even have souls) so that then the cult can make itself the remedy for the made-up ailment. The cult then controls and has power over people and obtains earthly financial wealth. All the while, the cult can't demonstrate that a molecule of what it professes is actually true. It is abusive to teach children that fantasy is reality.
*Very grateful for your video, Tim* In my opinion, the 2 most devastating points are; - from the theological point of view: the toxic teaching of the human being as worthlessness > at the end of the day, this means that the person is basically bad and not basically good. I think that the 2 thesis, "basically good and yet fallible" vs "basically bad before God" these two "parties" are the huge and ultimate difference between a good theology and a destructive theology. - from daily life point of view, for me, the most toxic dynamics is the one you mentioned about the leadership (or anyone enabling the leadership) sharing information that people shared in confidence. This "strategy" creates tangle nets and traps for the victims, and they take them bound. That said, *Hope all the people can find their healthy spiritual life* In my case, the religious external rules were just one detail in the midst of tons of other facts in my condition > a severe dehumanizing narcissistic family abuse. I point out that this is my experience and my case. So, in my case, my faith helped (and still helps) me a lot in detecting every aspects of the abuse > and then seeing more clearly the personal steps for recovery , with a lot of help coming from very good people, including non-religious people and non-religious professionals. Back in topic. For me, the "structure" in the Church (even the hierarchical organizations) is for serving people on their journey when the people themselves asks for it. The structure and the groups are meant to be a support and a guide for personal relationship with God, for each and every personal research . (Not for weird relationships with group leaders). Meaning, the "power" is for service, not viceversa. As far as I know this is Catholic doctrine. And this is one of the reasons I remain Catholic, after about 2 decades of "pause" and research. If I find a group not following that right (and liberating) doctrine, I leave the group.
PROSPER is an 8 episode SERIES on ROKU, which is an EXCELLENT example of Tim's description of Religious Abuse within a family. The preacher/ father is so CHARISMATIC that it's easy to watch the entire series and not realize until the end that he has severely abused his family, friends & congregation. This series exposes how easily narcissism can be overlooked in charismatic people.
I grew up believing I was going to Hell for being a sinner. It made me feel hopeless. By age 12, I realized that I did not like church, the Bible or God because it was all so negative and fearful but I had to keep that hidden out of fear of punishment.
As you get older you become less drawn to black and white thinking. You may not be drawn to it. You may be able to adjust for nuances, circumstances, shades of gray. It's an adjustment in life.
I began attending church at age 4 through mid-adulthood. 15 years ago I left the church. It took years of undoing the trauma I suffered. The church lied to me about multiple subjects. The pastor was very Narcissistic and what he taught was was "the law". It was ingrained in me that I was going to hell for the sins I wasn't even aware of. The doctrine of hell, sin and being told that you were born a sinner is not biblical.
Yup. As a woman i have been minimized and erased by many churches and blamed for the sins of men. I will always believe in Jesus but not in what churches have become. I practice my religion without these institutions.
I'd like to share with you and all the people here, a study coming from inside the Catholic Church. The author goes into very deep analysis of spiritual abuse dynamics Author: Dom Dysmas de Lassus Book: Abuses in the Religious Life and the Path to Healing Thank you Tim Thank you all the survivors sharing their experiences. I'm a survivor of life long severe narcissistic family abuse. On my recovery path. In my case the religious aspect was only a detail in the serious psychological 24/7 abusive system. [Thank you for your patience with my poor English. Italy here]
When arguing against the religious narcissist (communal narc pastors), they believe they are righteously fighting for God but you ARE FIGHTING AGAINST SATAN. Run as fast as you can in the opposite direction. Get healed and see why you believe this abuse is normal.
I know I am not the problem but can't argue and quit. I am just silence now. I feel like I am in a transition. I kwow change is coming but still so afraid and sad. I dont know what I have or feel ...
I have and had all those problems without God or the Bible. My dad was a WW2 Master sergeant with complex trauma and believed in God but hated religion and probably said ten words to me during his whole life. The bad people hate me for doing good and the good punish me for what I did wrong. 🥴
I can relate to you saying your dad ignored you, me too. He was very close to some of my siblings, just not me. I think because I was a “truth teller” probably blurting out my observations of our family (until I learned better). A sick narc who manipulated the family to be his posse so I guess it was good he ignored me.❤
Our whole family is now the enemy to this one family member. We are all going to hell. Our son became a phd psychologist, Family person said psychology is from hell and we are heretics. This was 25 years so. They send us scripture from a book called Enoch. Religious trauma has done a number to them. Then they build a new cult attitude, high control! Thinks he needs to control his family of origin. Now he’s shunning all of us and his mom. Wish they could see they need help. Too! It’s like we are all reliving how a cult works. Only it’s just this one individual that’s demanding all of us a loyalty to him. It’s Scary! Feels so twisted! Because it is twisted to suit his own personal beliefs. If he didn’t condemn us we could just ignore it but it in our face when he sees us. Seems he has to bring up politics or religion to feel important I guess.
I got bold enough to leave my church and recently went back. I think it is due to complex trauma! One thing I do not like there is if I miss church the devil made me do it and I have to always let someone know why I miss Church. I don’t think this is too healthy. I’m 40 years old. I don’t even have to let my parents in on my life like that😂
I was told I was going to hell for everything .. I was also told sex before marriage was a sin.. which terrified me and ruined healthy ideas about relationships and I was also spanked badly with items.. hot wheel tracks and willow switches etc.. under the spare the Rod spoil the child guise .. I have never been in a relationship that I didn’t get abused and yet parents told me .. we didn’t raise you that way! I beg to differ!
I might have suffered trauma but thankfully I didn't have this. There is healthy religion and there is unhealthy church goings on. eg the catholic priests who abused children and never held to account.
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@TimFletcher I'm adhere to the preterists view of the "last days".
But what are you doing if you are married to a wife with religios trauma and she is punishing you, because you have a happy Christian lifestyle?
I don't think I can express adequate gratitude for your videos. I'm in my 70's and although I knew my family was extremely dysfunctional, until 3 years ago I did not know of CPTSD or the extent I had been traumatized.
I am not far behind you in age and I have been searching for this all my life, actively since 17 yrs. old, and this is bringing the concepts home that I have needed to make some of the major conclusions now that heal me. It answers why, when my father insisted we go to church, we said, "sure, Dad", and spent the time gone driving around! 🍧 That was all of the rebellion we dared muster up!
@@CynthiaSchoenbauerA dose of humility would keep you studying the Bible.Exodus
33 Jehovah said further to Moses: “Go on your way from here with the people whom you led up out of the land of Egypt. Journey to the land about which I swore to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, saying, ‘To your offspring* I will give it.’+ 2 I
@landline516 yes, at 65 My drs picked it up...
@@landline516 ask for a Bible study from Jehovah witnesses
Same here. Found out last year about CPTSD
This video speaks VOLUMES to the experiences and suffering I’ve endured from Catholic religion.
I watched this video twice and the clarity I received has devastated me all over again😭😢😭.
I am so glad to have found your channel and TRULY am thankful for displaying for victims what religious trauma really is, and the effects of what this trauma can bring in one’s life.💔
THANK YOU🧎🏾♀️➡️
I can relate!!!! Being a Catholic and a (bare) survivor of CPTSD is not a good combo in my opinion.
@ yes it’s a painful combination. Especially when we truly didn’t deserve the psychological baggage it carries in our lives. Sometimes just breathing in existence for ONE day can be a great triumph. We are warriors whenever life tells us we’re not.❤️
I was a pastors mistress yes i know i had huge personal issues to be in this role. But power and control in the church is super real. Now i realize how much shame was there and also when you have complex trauma as a child its easy to accept it 😢😢
Good on you stepping out & away ~♡♡♡♡♡♡
@@7hilladelphia yes but now i isolate from the church completely. Even though i have healed.
You should be disgusted with yourself and ashamed
@@teznejensel9099 what of all this fear of God?Deuteronomy 19
New International Version
Cities of Refuge
19 When the Lord your God has destroyed the nations whose land he is giving you, and when you have driven them out and settled in their towns and houses, 2
@@teznejensel9099 May the Good Lord take you in His arms and heal you completely. 🥹🙏😘
100% - I used to call it "spiritual gaslighting"
This is a wonderful video which explains religious abuse so well. I recently left my church as have had enough of the gaslighting and minimalizing. The worst aspect was since I lost my husband, I've had very little support. Basically the church promotes that grieving a loved one is frowned upon because it shows a lack of faith. I was devastated and am taking a break from organized religion.
Far out how twisted was their teaching. Grieving is pure. Can't be faked. Jesus said in Hos Sermon on the Mount, blessed are those who mourn for they shall be comforted.
Grieving is natural and healthy. People who tell you otherwise are probably too selfish to be there for you. Keep your eyes on Jesus!
@@jbellbird9050 that was my experience too when I lost my great friend. I was so sad and grieving and decided to talk with the pastor, only to be met with judgment because if I was a true believer I wouldn't come to him with such stupid questions. I quote. Actually, 2 pastors told me that.
@@iamfree9212 I'm sorry you had that experience also. To be treated that way is so deflating and makes grieving worse.
@@jbellbird9050 Romans 12:15-16 15 Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position.[c] Do not be conceited.
I grew up Mormon and I've had to deconstruct a lot of what you're saying. There is so much peace that comes from healing from this.
@@sydneybaxter105 same!
catholic here -- give, serve, help til you drop/die. I did, and I did. It's selfish tp even think you deserve love return
Got that right! 🎓
@@Jennifer-gr7hn Me too. I was raised Catholic but since my parents acted "nice" it escaped me how much control they had. Severe depression did not even make it clear. I just knew something must not be right!
@@Jennifer-gr7hn The JWs fit perfectly into this description.
Recognising abuse in any form is what God gifted me with. I started seeing it after my husband betrayal. The more I learned about narcissists and sociopaths, I realised that my parents are narcissists. My mother convinced me to stick to my abusive marriage. Trying to escape. I had to block my mother after told her numerous times to stop sending me religious giffs to make me feel guilty for going against God or telling me that she paid the priest to pray for my soul. I'm developing my own relationship with God, and that's ok. Thank you Tim. Having someone like you voicing and validating this trauma helps me heal. I'm passing this knowledge through behaviour change to my daughter I'm breaking the inter generational cycle of trauma and abuse. I was born and raised in Romania, living overseas now away from people with limited beliefs. Thank you God.
You are breaking the cycle of abuse and that is the most wonderful gift that you can give your daughter. 💚
Good job
You can't have a relationship with the invisible and the imaginary.
The difference between you and me? When I'm on my death,, I won't be fearing an imaginary Hell.
@@benjamindover5676 you might want to investigate what others who didn't believe in hell until they died and went there...there is a lot of investigative work being done in Near Death Experiences. I had one.
wow, you hit that nail on the head. been separated from that org for a number of years but still battle the internal self punishment and ptsd of my experience. i think this connected some areas i have struggled to overcome.
Yes, all therapists, pychs ask me if I can go to church to get relief from my mental ills. Um, no.... I've been traumatized by many church people. There's a saying that all thieves hide in church.The percentage of narcissists is off the chart. It's Place where vulnerable people go to get help and certainly get taken advantage of.
Yep, some of the sickest people are in church shopping for victims.
Turn the other cheek and honor thy father and mother. Great advice for a child being abused by a narcissistic father! Basically just made me feel like I deserved the abuse.
I was told I was going to the “wrong” church. Their church was, of course, the “right” church. She suggested I become Catholic. Um, no.
@lynn -My father was a pastor, he s*x abused me and shared me with other pastors in and outside the denomination and all the church leadership/staff. I have been learning about narcissism for about 5 years now, since I married one and most of my relationships were with narcs. It wasn't until about a year ago, I actually realized he was a covert narc. I kept getting shamed/blamed/abused in the churches I went to and finally quit going.
I didn't even know you had a video about religious trauma until now. 3 videos back I told you I was an ex jehovahs witness. See! You are perfectly understanding my life problems. I need your therapy or help so much. I know this isn't much but thank you from the bottom of my heart
@@robotaholic So was I. I was born into it.
I was raised in the JW mess!!
Father "Elder" and Mother "Pioneer"...
I'm glad people are waking up!
The WT along with other cults have played a dangerous game with our mind!
People are becoming unhinged because it was set up that way!
Hopefully people will begin to see the spiritual healing that is going on and leave these satanic and demonic cults immediately!!
Stay safe! 🌻
@southernbawselady7092 After I left, a surrogate mother still deeply involved told me the Watchtower printed an article that stated that we all needed a little brainwashing. I couldn't believe my ears. I sourced that copy, and sure enough, in black and white, there it was. Most of them are so indoctrinated that they'll NEVER be able to know they are totally controlled.
@@robotaholic ex JW here too! Experienced this and took 5 yrs to get thru the guilt and feeling like I was going to die at Armageddon....finally so happy...glad I left
I walked away from all organized religions. I found myself . It's been quite a journey.
I appreciate this video so much. I am a daughter of a former minister. I didn’t see the abuse until later in my life. I am healed of much of it now, but I appreciate the confirmation. There is very little information about this subject.
I was raised in a fundamentalist home. I left at the age of seventeen (got married). I sensed there was something very wrong in that home, but I couldn’t put my finger on it. I knew what was wrong in the neighbor’s home. There was drinking, screaming, cursing. None of that happened in my home, but something very pernicious was at play. Now, I realize my intuition was spot on.
You have way too small of a sample. Search "According to research, countries with higher rates of Atheism tend to be considered more prosperous and happy,"
I think some of the biggest abusers are in the church. What better pool of targets than people who are trusting, vulnerable and looking for some type of relief from the world? I have always had a deep desire to belong to a community and this person exploited that. They had this pious image when I personally saw character that was nothing like this(a good con artist). It’s so hard to trust people anymore and I find myself getting triggered the moment I walk in a church now(kind of like I’m on wolf alert!) 🐺 I feel stuck because I know I can’t stay isolated but the thought of doing this again is just so daunting. I will watch your videos, thanks!
We always need to be a better person
My father, a pastor in a well-known denomination, sex abused and trafficked me to other pastors and priests as well as the church leadership/staff. I have been abused by other church leaders over and over again as an adult. I finally said enough after 30 years of seeking a healthy church. Last year, I realized father was also a very effective, covert narc. I do believe there are a few good churches, who truly serve Christ but I haven't had the blessing of finding one. My faith is solid for I know the Bible and the truth Christ showed us. With narcissism being a valued trait in the world today, I think it is much safer to isolate - I get that. Agree that this is the place for truth and healing.
I left a high-control group (a cult by the BITE model definition) just over a year ago because I serendipitously found out they taught false teachings about the Bible and Jesus/Christianity. The pain from the realisation of their duplicity, the subsequent hostility after questioning the doctrines and the eventual shunning by people whom I could have taken a bullet for has really sucked. Then, the betrayal trauma triggered underlying C-PTSD rooted in childhood trauma that has just led to a cascade of discoveries and further pain. It has been a tough few months and I reckon there will be many more months/years, but let me not digress.
I am very grateful for this video - I think everything, or at least 98% resonated with me. I am especially grateful because you mentioned at the end that it was possible to see that the HCG experience might have been useful. You do not realise how much shame I have been battling because my experience in the cult felt so positive, and in a weird & painful way led me to learning how to properly study and interpret the Bible myself, and to discovering who Jesus really is (towards the end of my time there and since leaving). I have felt very conflicted knowing that they deliberately taught falsehood and had a toxic culture, yet saw that I was quite happy and made some undeniable, major life progress as a result of being part of the group. Sigh.
Prior to that group, I had experienced gosperity culture, word of faith, NAR, etc which were also very harmful in their own ways, and this group had initially presented themselves to be faithful. They gave me a sense of purpose, structure and community - plus true, the music was great too :'). I have since realised that I can get these from other places that aren't even church, but honestly it just feels like overwhelmingly hard work. NGL everything just feels so much harder and I find myself going back to passive suicidal ideation more these days (favourite pastime before joining the group, alongside chronic daydreaming). Also easily triggered and on edge, isolating, crying/weeping constantly, etc. However, there is now a hope inside of me that somehow gets me through the day - sometimes I even feel resentful to that hopefulness which I suspect is the Holy Spirit (?). I lived with depression for a long time so hopelessness was my first nature. Even now I don't want to go on, like I have zero motivation, but in the midst of this I feel, heck in fact I "know" that I can/will. I should be grateful, right? I don't know - I am just tired.
You are Describing the religion I grew up in. I was 4 when JW knocked on my parent’s door. Started a study. One year later Dad & Mom were in. Mom grew up Mormon but grandma hated going to church. So when my parents moved to a small community not knowing anyone, Mom was lonesome. She like reading the Bible. 3 more kids were born after me. So they didn’t have the memory of celebrating Christmas and my birthday.
When a teenager I questioned doctrines we were being taught. I read context, chapter at a time. Dad got very angry with me and demanded I read Jw magazines and books. They would teach me truth about the Bible. There literature made me depressed.
You had to give answers out of literature only at meetings. You didn’t dare not give opinion, debate or express a different interpretation. Jw Didn’t call it church ever . But by the time I was 16 I was put on probation. Then disfellowshipped by 19. I ran away from home at 17 to marry outsider to get away from this oppressive group and my dad .
I was alienated.
That backfired, my husband joined my parents religion and he wanted no children. I had miscarried.
He went to prison being a conscience objector to the draft to Vietnam War. I divorced him . And was on my own.
I Met a Christian man just home from his tour in Army from Vietnam. We married in 1969, I was 19. 55 years ago we are very happy and I recovered from living in a cult nightmare.
I became a Christian at 30. It took lots of work and read every book self help psychology books. Topics were Toxic parents, family etc on the market. I made a commitment my Bible is my guide. Humans fail us ! But I learned not to be a failure to me or to others or a victim captured for life. I have scars but worked on healing wounds when one would open up.
I now take care of my 95 yr old mother that spent her whole life in the cult. She wonders why she did that. But she has dementia so we keep it light. We read the Bible only.
We don’t let JWs in our home.
It’s been a huge blessing to take care of her.
Women are walked all over in those KHalls. Mom could not tie her shoes right for Dad. We are just doormats to work and support abusive self absorbed men.
Gossip and tattling on others was commonplace.
All of us kid left in our teens or 20’s.
One sibling has started his own beliefs. He’s demanded I trust him and treats me very disrespectful. Women can Not have positions of authority over a man. they are stuck in a legalistic mentality. Our relationship has totally disintegrated. Our father was a narcissist. The trait looks so familiar I can’t handle it anymore. Finally learned what this narcissism is all about. I listen to 2 counselors on UA-cam the past 2 years.
At 74 you never quit learning. It actually fun to discover yourself and learn to be better and healthy. Respect others no matter the events in our life. Those that won’t respect, want to hurt you and want to use you like doormat….. WALK Away! Sometimes you have to divorce a relative for peace of mind . They offer no peace ever, just empty words, anger, all knowing my way or highway, come out of the person. Gets very angry if differ in opinion or facts on Anything!!
This video is an Amazing learning opportunity!
Thank you!
That you point out that the basis of religion is COMPLIANCE completely works for me. Now I realize I lost my entire sense of self to forced compliance and this answers one of the biggest questions of my life. Thank you Tim.
❤ excellent video. Points that resonated with me- 2:40 people who grew up with abuse are often drawn to fundamentalist churches bc they feel relieved by the certainty of the doctrine; the Black or White teachings align with their own need to make sense of a confusing world.
4:20 What a great description of how a compliant person can easily adapt to a toxic family or group without seeing the reality of the harm done to them!
Thank you for speaking on this very important topic!
This video was very helpful … I’ve been “absent” from church for about 12 years … I’ve grown more spiritually and now see the “abuse” so much more clearly.
I’ve recently decided to attend church again (as the leadership style has changed over the years) but I am now only going on occasion and will not succumb to the past influences it once had … I want to attend because I love the unity of worshiping together with others. I’m on guard … and will take it as a social gathering and will engage with the positive attributes that it does have.
ALSO: I had most of the “religious traumas” on the list !!!
I've heard many awful stories about various kinds of religious abuse. I was raised in a New Thought church. A good term could be "toxic positivity." As in, if you are feeling bad, just think better. If something bad happened, it's because you are thinking bad. Even a broken arm. Deny medical help, rely on the training. Kids have died, in that system. No kindness, no pity, no understanding. Required medical care was bitterly protested. Other religions dissed, as inferior.
We were carefully taught to not complain or whine or visibly suffer.
Fit right in with the narcissistic parents' behaviors and their desires of us, to be quiet and good always.
Kids are such annoying and tedious burdens you see. Although they have their uses.
Sigh.
@@jeankipper6954 that is so sad. And I thought my all suffering Irish Catholic female relatives were bad.
It's really hard to compare bad. Awful is awful, no matter what flavor. It's so dependent on so many things. Like, two different people can and do react differently to the same treatment and circumstances. Some break where others do ok. We live in a broken, imperfect world. Our very successes seems to invalidate someone, somewhere. I'm extremely wary of simplistic conclusions. And that's ok.
I was raised in a very strict household. Much of this resonates. As a young adult I had eating disorder, alcoholism, anxiety, depression. Still dealing with the trauma even at 60. I have felt rage beneath it all. I don't like religion
You just described me. I am 60, I have come to realize that I will never fully heal on this side, but I can continue to heal. That the journey of healing doesn't have an endpoint, it is just a spectrum.
@newsongsung1147 yes I have accepted that it is ingrained so deeply it has become part of who I am
@@paulamaggsart I totally get what you are saying, it is me as well. Hopefully, we are a source of support to others that are struggling too. I usually respond to the question, "what is your religion?" by saying I am a follower of Christ. I do not follow religion, I follow Christ.
Thank you for this video. Your videos are so helpful for me. I had a lot of negative experiences at fundamentalist Churches. However, having come from an alcoholic family, I needed a foundation. And it gave me that. But I left when I could no longer live with the constriction. I miss the community of people and the sense of belonging, but that came at the price of denying my own intuition and my own way of seeing. I am still healing. I am deeply spiritual and follow a spiritual path that fits me.
There are ACOA in person and online meetings that are helpful
Spiritual is just another word for made-up, imaginary, or supernatural.
You are on your own, there is no magic anything. and this is the only life you will ever have.
@@benjamindover5676 That is false we are eternal spiritual beings.
@@Angela-zj5sxThere is no evidence for anything like that. It's just wishful thinking to make you feel better about dying.
Who you are, dies when your body dies.
Thank you for this podcast and for your sincerity. You can be trusted.
God bless you Tim this is exactly what I needed to hear. After deconstructing from religious abuse I am thankful for the early years of Bible study yet am just now going back to church- with caution. Mostly because I miss the fellowship and the work of the Holy Spirit as we seek Him together. So much better than being by myself yet I had a lot of healing to do. God never left me though. Thank you 😊
You worship, revere, honor, provide cover for, and demand respect for the exact same holy text and god as the extremists/terrorists do.
You believe in the exact same holy text that literally commands and sanctions the murder, genocide, and killing of non-believers, homosexuals, adulterers, and non-virgin brides on their wedding night.
And sure enough, today the religious are literally killing non-believers, homosexuals, adulterers, and non-virgin brides on their wedding night.
You should know better and people like you,, ought to fear a real Hell.
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! This video has explained everything I am going through and the dilemma I am experiencing wanting to leave the church I am in. The isolation and subtle 'punishments' is too much. The worst thing is I know I should leave but I don't trust myself enough to do so. It feels like I am on the wrong. I have tried to talk to leaders but they dont want to 'gossip' or slander. Its a very lonely experience and one can be tempted to comply....But I thank God for this video. This happens so much in Africa. May God bless you. Watching from Kenya
Ex JW here - was born into that cult. The amount of anger issues & depression that came from never feeling good enough to petrified as a young child thinking I was constantly going to die, worried about people I loved that were going to perish at "armageddon" literally messed with my head for years, grateful I left 20 years ago But this has been a lifetime of scars However I try to remember that feeling of gratitude when the penny dropped & I realised how what I had believed Was NOT true & overwhelmingly Relieved to know this cult was not Right in their decitfuk doctrines they follow.
@TimFletcher-w9b Exactly 💯
Excellent honest truthful information. Thank you so much for these videos. Being LDS and baptized at 8 years old without informed consent is in itself psychological abuse.
Getting away from religion has been the best thing I’ve ever done . I have been given clarity on who the creator really is by the author himself ,rather than the fallible ideologies of mankind .
Well,, if there is a God,, then that God created all life via the established fact of evolution.
Do you have any idea just how horrible and violent the evolution process is?
With a god like that,, you don't need a devil.
When I first became a Christian, I was sent to a discipleship school. I had no previous childhood discipline, and so I just thought that the dean of the school must know what God wanted for me. I failed miserably in the first year, but I was still sent off to the second year, which was set up to evangelise in a small outback town. I self-sabotaged, and then I was sent back to the first point of contact. I asked if I could stay there, but I was told No! I had to do my first year again in another state where I once again I failed. I wanted to go home. My pastor said there was no biblical reason why I should return. So, I just counted down the days until the end of the year. I felt totally helpless. This was the pattern of my teen years. Being sent away from my mothers house to my fathers. I went on a downward spiral. So, I was sent away to an alternative school. I ran away. So this story was told back to front. But you get the gist.
My life was a string of trauma after trauma, and then I saw your videos, 6 years ago and I understood what hadj happened to me
Love your videos! I’m on a healing journey and started watching you for like a while now and now a lot makes sense. I can now understand why I feel the way I do.
I have listened to this5 times already and shared with those who grew up in this type of trauma. Thank you for truly understanding what I have been trying to understand for over 60 years and have paid far too dearly for
I have been waiting to watch this one and I wasn't disappointed. Thankyou Tim for your teaching. I have been actively going through a process over the past decade or so of learning for myself what the Bible says (and with God's help, what some of the ''tricky'' passages mean). I know I've healed a lot, and matured. However, I hadn't termed my experience as a survivor of religious trauma until now. Through your examples, I see more damage than I realised (I don't blame anyone - it was part of the system, as you say).
I am a recovering person from complex trauma in house of origin + religious trauma which was an “outgrowth” of the internal structure… LORD HAVE MERCY ON US ALL FORGIVE US.🕊️🕊️🙏
Churches are great places to be a narc. Ive become dubious of all religion now.
@@lukedegraaf1186 earth is my church. nature is my spirituality 💯🔥🍃
Im unbaptised, raised in a socialist country ( the new religion) and this kind of folks are often narcs.
So true!!
So true!!! Abuse in the name of Jesus....don't want anything to do with organized religion
This is such a freeing video, thank you Tim.
Religion trauma is a huga problem in our communities and how sad that so many people are being affiliated i just left a high controlling Religion Jehovah's witnesses what a relief but is not an easy process to overcome but God is great im getting through roller-coaster phases of healing with his help and support from family members who are not jws God's favor if for everyone he loves all of us and that's enough! We dont need the delusion Religion is selling to people that they're instrumental to gaining salvation. Smh😢
Thank you for discussing this topic. I'm no longer religious but still in the process of healing from some of the trauma that religion caused me. I don't know if you've already done a video on this, but in the future I'd love to hear your perspective on how to deal with family members who are still in religions who hold toxic beliefs and/or engage in toxic behaviors associated with their religion who think that you are the problem for no longer being a part of the toxic religion.
I am so sorry for all you have been through, I have a feeling the truth will be revealed to your indoctrinated relatives in the coming days and months. May you be completely healed and blessed in all areas of your life.
I can't tell you how grateful I am for this video. I have felt for a long time that I have experienced and continue to experience religious trauma. I was looking for information on this topic and finally found your video. Many different emotions flooded me. It is a very painful topic to me. But now I got at least a hope that I can save the remnants of my faith in God.
For some reason I thought you were still a pastor. I'm thankful to God that you are doing what you are doing now.
God obviously put Tim where he was most needed. Amen.
@@marcamp5450❤I feel the same I am thankful for his openness and courage.(I am intrnyionsly the word ",obedience", although biblically it would be an appropriate one, however it has.been Doo emyird and twisted and compromised by abusive application of religion that just can't stand it...)
Some people who happened to be a part of a church congregation have hurt me. Thankful I follow Jesus and not people.
@@toliveischrist950 AMEN!!!
I wasn't even sure I wanted to watch this as to this day, I cannot step into a church without feeling sick to my stomach (and I'm in my 60's now). Most of my religious trauma came from my immediate and extended family and was strongest in my childhood. I could say yes to all but 2 of the things you mentioned. My experience made me completely turn my back on Christianity (it NEVER felt right to me anyway, which was most of the problem since it was forcibly shoved down my throat and I was dragged to many places I never wanted to be). I wound up diving deep into the occult, and then adamantly embracing atheism. In my 30's and 40's I explored some other religions, but mainly Wicca and Buddhism. Eventually I declared myself a "Solitary Eclectic" and was at peace with that for many years. Recently however, I am struggling again to believe in anything and lean more again towards atheism. As I get older, the thoughts of even my spirit living on forever scares and depresses me. This life has been a struggle and very painful and I honestly just hope I go to sleep one day and that's the end of it!
Amen.
Amen.
PK here, at 16 or so I understood my father's religion for what it really was. Immoral bronze-age magic nonsense.
Once you realize that, there is no need to ever look back.
I became so well-read on the subject that now I would never need to waste my time on any Christian apologetics.
There is ZERO chance that anything in that silly bible could ever be true.
ZERO!
@abby - we have some similar experiences. Have you ever thought to ask God, if He exists, to reveal/prove that He does? I did this at age 25. Amazing things began to happen in my life. It was then, I realized what I sought existed. That He loves me unconditionally and wants to be in a relationship with who I am, not what someone else says He wants. My life journey completely changed.
@@newsongsung1147 asked "Have you ever thought to ask God, "
Yes, most of us Atheists were born and raised in the church. Most of the Athiest movement is led by people that once were leaders in the church.
So we know our religious siht. OK?
So let me ask you,, could someone else also have their life and journey completely changed by something that does not exist?
By something not real. moral or worthy of worship?
Could they?
And if "yes" then you would have to agree that you could be wrong? And your logic is NOT the path to truth.
Please answer.
You took about 10 lbs off of my mind by naming all those issues at the end there @36:35. You're the real hero here tbh
Dear Tim, I wish you and your family a happy new year and more love, selfcare and happiness to your home. Thanks for everything Kind regards, Karén
Very powerful and so true. Excellent video - I've already watched it twice. More people need to know about this topic!
This is for all religions, not just churches. Ppl are abusive by choice and by habit and rationalize it bc it is so pervasive in our world. Ppl who actively seek a role of power and influence over others, politicians, religious leaders, executives, media, etc are abusers very very often.
Thank you
Your my only beacon of hope
Grew up Catholic - very Catholic. I am so thankful to have left it behind.
Well, you Catholics may have invented guilt, but the Mormans perfected it.
Good talk!🫸👍🫷
Your courage to broach these issues is wonderful. I have so much respect. I am curious as to your relationship currently to the church. Wondering as well to your take on Rene Girard, who has provided me with so much insight to my own experience as the scapegoated child.
Very, very helpful. My eyes have been opened!🙏
This is so on point! Families often remain in denial when one of them suffers from religious OCD. As they are usually the ones who have built that trauma within themselves.
Thank you for this..I brought this up on my channel when I was on social media. That was Very telling on how widespread it is and people don't even know. My experience was an extension of my dysfunctional home life. Excellent video! Ty.
Excellent job!
This raised an awareness for me. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
I am not sure if I am the only one experiencing this... but for me, the things that are being framed as helpful and life-saving, namely religion and the psychiatric establishment (with their polydrugging and biomedicalizing of mental distress), are the very sources of trauma that haunt and cripple me. These powerful bodies inflict trauma and deny trauma, all at the same time. They just silence me with the Word as well as more labels and drugs. I don't know who to turn to, how to get help, and how to free myself for good. Nobody from the professional field knows how to help me, and even wonder why these things that are supposed to "help" me have harmed me. I have no idea how to live my life anymore. My dad, who understood me the most, has passed. I am all on my own. All I want is to be with my dad.
Yes to most of this I am going to have to watch again because this triggered some lingering PTSD but this is definitely a core wound from early childhood.
Interesting and thank you 🏹💓
Thank you ❤
Beautifully explained. This is why I love recovery 12 step program, the focus is .."The God of your understanding"
Got bless you Tim, to a happier world
Theres a special place in hell for pastors who abuse people. It happened to me two years ago. I dont think i will ever step foot in a church again after 32 years of being active in church. Church was my life, but im too disgusted to join a church after the pastor said he was having sexual fantasies about me and was obsessed with me calling and texting all day long. He wouldnt stop talking about my body and i should have known then but he acted as if the rules didnt apply to him and he hid in plain sight behind his role as a pastor. If your in IL stay away from Bob Carden at Align ministry. They guy should be in jail.
Thank you!
23:22 EXACTLY 💯😢
@@Schquirl isn't it just 🤮
@andybowkerhere Yes. When he said that I was immediately triggered. I should have remembered it just reading the title!!! I was constantly reminded of "the anointed" and was rebuked. "Get away from me Satan" was told to me all the time if I mentioned anything of truth and was never given a compliment. Religious covert narcissists are modern day Pharisees.
I believe this to be a sad but true reality of the church today and is one of the main reasons why people are leaving in such huge numbers. The doctrine of God and the gospel of Jesus Christ has been twisted and reframed to fit the human agenda thus becoming the doctrine of man rather than of God.
This! Spot on!
SET in IT!
I recall carrying so much shame, guilt and self-disgust for having sexual feelings and when I had lost my virginity at 20, which was late 30 yrs ago. Took me many years to accept myself and not feel bad or dirty.
I was raised in a religious cult. My parents couldn't distinguish fantasy from reality. Endless gaslighting, shaming, future faking. The cult was narcissistic to its core. I was raised in the Catholic Church. The cult wants people to believe that they have flawed souls (although the cult can't demonstrate that people even have souls) so that then the cult can make itself the remedy for the made-up ailment. The cult then controls and has power over people and obtains earthly financial wealth. All the while, the cult can't demonstrate that a molecule of what it professes is actually true. It is abusive to teach children that fantasy is reality.
*Very grateful for your video, Tim*
In my opinion, the 2 most devastating points are;
- from the theological point of view:
the toxic teaching of the human being as worthlessness
> at the end of the day, this means that the person is basically bad and not basically good.
I think that the 2 thesis, "basically good and yet fallible"
vs
"basically bad before God"
these two "parties" are the huge and ultimate difference
between a good theology and a destructive theology.
- from daily life point of view, for me, the most toxic dynamics is the one you mentioned about the leadership (or anyone enabling the leadership) sharing information that people shared in confidence.
This "strategy" creates tangle nets and traps for the victims, and they take them bound.
That said,
*Hope all the people can find their healthy spiritual life*
In my case, the religious external rules were just one detail in the midst of tons of other facts in my condition > a severe dehumanizing narcissistic family abuse.
I point out that this is my experience and my case. So, in my case, my faith helped (and still helps) me a lot in detecting every aspects of the abuse > and then seeing more clearly the personal steps for recovery , with a lot of help coming from very good people, including non-religious people and non-religious professionals.
Back in topic. For me, the "structure" in the Church (even the hierarchical organizations) is for serving people on their journey when the people themselves asks for it. The structure and the groups are meant to be a support and a guide for personal relationship with God, for each and every personal research .
(Not for weird relationships with group leaders). Meaning, the "power" is for service, not viceversa. As far as I know this is Catholic doctrine. And this is one of the reasons I remain Catholic, after about 2 decades of "pause" and research.
If I find a group not following that right (and liberating) doctrine, I leave the group.
PROSPER is an 8 episode SERIES on ROKU, which is an EXCELLENT example of Tim's description of Religious Abuse within a family. The preacher/ father is so CHARISMATIC that it's easy to watch the entire series and not realize until the end that he has severely abused his family, friends & congregation.
This series exposes how easily narcissism can be overlooked in charismatic people.
I grew up believing I was going to Hell for being a sinner. It made me feel hopeless. By age 12, I realized that I did not like church, the Bible or God because it was all so negative and fearful but I had to keep that hidden out of fear of punishment.
I see the links in the description now so I'm on it!
24:50 Cycle of Abuse 😮Yep 25:35
Thank you so much ❤
You addressed it... Resubscribed.
@TimFletcher-z6c I sense the dark side of the force....
Wonderful video
As you get older you become less drawn to black and white thinking. You may not be drawn to it. You may be able to adjust for nuances, circumstances, shades of gray. It's an adjustment in life.
Good points.
ThNk you so much❤
I began attending church at age 4 through mid-adulthood. 15 years ago I left the church. It took years of undoing the trauma I suffered. The church lied to me about multiple subjects. The pastor was very Narcissistic and what he taught was was "the law". It was ingrained in me that I was going to hell for the sins I wasn't even aware of. The doctrine of hell, sin and being told that you were born a sinner is not biblical.
Sorry for that. As far as being born sinners. That's biblical. Because of Adam & Eve's sin...we inherited that rebellious nature.
Yup. As a woman i have been minimized and erased by many churches and blamed for the sins of men. I will always believe in Jesus but not in what churches have become. I practice my religion without these institutions.
My goodness!!!! This is excellent 👌 👏 👍 🙌 😀 😄 👌 Thank you for doing the LORDs work. Excellent 🎉
I'd like to share with you and all the people here,
a study coming from inside the Catholic Church. The author goes into very deep analysis of spiritual abuse dynamics
Author:
Dom Dysmas de Lassus
Book:
Abuses in the Religious Life and the Path to Healing
Thank you Tim
Thank you all the survivors sharing their
experiences.
I'm a survivor of life long severe narcissistic family abuse. On my recovery path.
In my case the religious aspect was only a detail in the serious psychological 24/7 abusive system.
[Thank you for your patience with my poor English. Italy here]
Definitely described trauma from growing up a Jehovah Witness. But also all religions create trauma.
When arguing against the religious narcissist (communal narc pastors), they believe they are righteously fighting for God but you ARE FIGHTING AGAINST SATAN. Run as fast as you can in the opposite direction. Get healed and see why you believe this abuse is normal.
Powerful Powerful
wait.... 34:19 "no sex until marriage" is now abusive teaching?
Sounds like you've worked with a few ex JWs, all of this is part of the JW ideology
Im suffering a lot right now at my current church. Its tormenting tbh
I know I am not the problem but can't argue and quit. I am just silence now. I feel like I am in a transition. I kwow change is coming but still so afraid and sad. I dont know what I have or feel ...
Word of Faith, false prophets and New Apostolic reformation churches today are riddled with this abuse. 😢
Some Calvary Chapels too
Look up cult expert Steven hassan's influence continuum and bite model
I have and had all those problems without God or the Bible. My dad was a WW2 Master sergeant with complex trauma and believed in God but hated religion and probably said ten words to me during his whole life. The bad people hate me for doing good and the good punish me for what I did wrong. 🥴
I can relate to you saying your dad ignored you, me too. He was very close to some of my siblings, just not me. I think because I was a “truth teller” probably blurting out my observations of our family (until I learned better). A sick narc who manipulated the family to be his posse so I guess it was good he ignored me.❤
Our whole family is now the enemy to this one family member. We are all going to hell. Our son became a phd psychologist, Family person said psychology is from hell and we are heretics. This was 25 years so. They send us scripture from a book called Enoch. Religious trauma has done a number to them. Then they build a new cult attitude, high control! Thinks he needs to control his family of origin.
Now he’s shunning all of us and his mom.
Wish they could see they need help. Too!
It’s like we are all reliving how a cult works. Only it’s just this one individual that’s demanding all of us a loyalty to him.
It’s Scary! Feels so twisted! Because it is twisted to suit his own personal beliefs. If he didn’t condemn us we could just ignore it but it in our face when he sees us. Seems he has to bring up politics or religion to feel important I guess.
I've come to the conclusion
that the hardest thing to do
is admitting a delusion
you believe in isn't true.
I got bold enough to leave my church and recently went back. I think it is due to complex trauma! One thing I do not like there is if I miss church the devil made me do it and I have to always let someone know why I miss Church. I don’t think this is too healthy. I’m 40 years old. I don’t even have to let my parents in on my life like that😂
"you walk away from their version of god"
I was told I was going to hell for everything .. I was also told sex before marriage was a sin.. which terrified me and ruined healthy ideas about relationships and I was also spanked badly with items.. hot wheel tracks and willow switches etc.. under the spare the Rod spoil the child guise .. I have never been in a relationship that I didn’t get abused and yet parents told me .. we didn’t raise you that way! I beg to differ!
I might have suffered trauma but thankfully I didn't have this.
There is healthy religion and there is unhealthy church goings on. eg the catholic priests who abused children and never held to account.