Should Apple put MacOS on the iPad?
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- Since the new M4 iPad Pro (2024) from Apple came out, the (seemingly) eternal argument has reignited: if the iPad is so powerful, why not put macOS on it? Another point of contention is that iPadOS doesn't fully utilise the powerful M4 chip.
After reading many comments online and watching numerous UA-cam videos, I felt compelled to throw my two-pence into the ring and share my thoughts!
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After WWDC I decided to record a follow up video to this one. Have I changed my mind? ua-cam.com/video/8L3ItcJKIFo/v-deo.html
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Its not that people really want macOS on the iPad, They want it to not be so limiting. Simple things like making the files app more usable. Show progress of things you are doing...etc Tried using the iPad for serious things but gave up because things that take 2 clicks on a mac take way more on an iPad to do
Appreciate your comment. What things take much more effort to do on the iPad?
@@mark_kelly copy large and/or multiple files without the transfer crashing. opening a window of an application that's not in your dock on the same desktop. opening multiple windows of the same app (if even possible). working with different audio sources and/or outputs (if even possible). just to name a few in no particular order...
Thanks Nicholas.
- I’ve rarely had an issue with file transfer (not any more so that I would have had on a laptop).
- You can open multiple versions of the same app if the developer has made that possible (I’m thinking GoodNotes, Safari etc), aside from Safari this isn’t a feature I need that much.
- Audio is a bit of a mess admittedly though, again, for my use case, never been an issue.
Horses for courses - as I talk about at length in the video. I do serious professional work using my iPad Pro but maybe there are instances of other professional work that wouldn’t work as effectively on an iPad as they would on a laptop and vice versa.
I just want the ipad to be a better programmer machine. If not, being able to dual boot macos would be nice so i have a super versatile device
@@mark_kelly usb mics seem to be incredibly hit or miss on ipad. i tried using my hyperx duocast with my ipad pro, to no luck. but then looking online, people have gotten other USB mics to work, and more still are in the same boat as me. it's the inconsistency that kills here, looking for an "ipad compatible" mic when absolutely everything works seamlessly on macos is a bit ridiculous
they might cause surface pro arm is now a thing
I doubt Apple would do anything major simply because of what another company has done. They seem to be very sure of themselves in that regard!
@@mark_kelly30% drop in iPad sales. Latest hardware spec won’t be enough
I hate carrying my macbook to the office. Imagine if I could just hookup my iPad with macos to the monitor on thunderbolt. That would save my back a little 😂.
Appreciate your comment 👍🏻 (and I hope your back feels better! 😆)
As you mentioned it works for you, that doesn't mean it works for everyone and it definetely doen't mean it's a laptop replacement.
Having a lot of tabs or windows open simultaneously is not about just being open on the background but side by side to allow you to use the data in front of you.
ANd yes most laptops that cost about £2k can handle what was described on threads an iPad can't and it's not meant to.
iPad OS is a tablet OS which is nowhere close to a desktop/laptop OS.
The fact that it works for you is great and a lot of people will probably share the same experience that's why both tablets and laptops exist to cover different needs.
Still the main issue with iPads is the OS and by that I mean for the amount of power in that small form the OS is limiting and cumbersome.
Yep. Works for me and my workflow and so for me it’s a very capable computer. You’re correct in that iPadOS still needs to “release the beast” as it were, it doesn’t need to be replaced with MacOS.
Oh, and yes I know expensive laptops can do what the gentleman described on Threads. I was being a little facetious for the sake of adding a little humour to the video! 😆
Ipad only here. No problems at all. Don’t need the macOS at all. Just upgraded from 2018 pro to the M4. Only (huge) disappointment is that Apple downgraded the sound quality. Still considering returning it for this reason alone.
Appreciate your comment. I have no serious issue with the sound. A little less bass perhaps?
honestly I think the iPad pros should at least have macOS as an option, since iPad OS on a device with the same chips as their macbooks seems sorta stupid, especially if you have the magic keyboard or something
The ad infuriated people at the time because it was felt Apple had abandoned the Mac with several products langushing without updates for years.
I wasn’t a big Mac user back then so I never picked up on that. Appreciate the clarification!
I don’t have any complaints about using iPad for day to day tasks, although sometimes I feel limited not by the OS itself, but more by the apps that are clearly developers fault. If only I had an option to run Mac programs on iPad, I would be more than happy.
Appreciate your comment! The more I have thought about this I think that there are a few OS changes I’d like to see but like you say a lot of the complaints could actually be sorted by developers.
Buying an ipad pro or even the air is wasted money with it's current hardware paired with it's os. It's like buying a powerful gaming rig but are limited due to it's software and can only download apps from the Google Play Store.
As a musician who records and mixes my own music. The watered down versions of DAWs just won't cut it.
Thanks for your thoughts. It seems music production and DAWS being ann issue is a common theme when folks are responding to the video in this comments section. This is a problem I don’t encounter as I don’t do what you do.
I mean windows did that with their surface pro line up but after the initial hype people started opting for surface laptop
Appreciate your comment!
That's a combination of hardware limitation and WOA weak support or transition by MS. The price to specs was always poor along with battery life and a laptop size device with touchscreen is less useful than a smaller form factor that's lighter an usable as a tablet and laptop (esp. with external monitor).
Very interesting take. I agree most of your thoughts. IMHO, after years of professional usage, iPad Pro line-up needs just three major things: a REAL file system (much more like the macOS file system), a REAL virtual ram management, and MUCH more PRO Apps fully compatible with their desktop counterparts (in the case they exist)
Thanks for your comment and, yes, I completely agree! The file system, though much, much better than it used to be, needs more work. And give me PRO apps like you say 🤩
im sorry i loved the video . very insightful hope you keep it up thank you
Glad you enjoyed it!
I think putting pure macOS onto iPads is a bad idea, since Mac wasn't designed for touch screens, what apple could do is make iPadOS feel more like a desktop class OS for Tablets, allowing desktop class apps to run, while keeping what makes iPad Special, special
Yep. Totally agree - give us more of those desktop class apps, rather than cut down versions!
Is using the iPads touch screen as a virtual touchpad for the cursor in macOs if the mouse disconnects in the middle of the session not good enough for you?
Well said. I use an ASUS Zenbook and a Supernote. Whatever workflow is most effective for you is all that matters.
Thank you! You’re totally correct 🤩
Here, here, fella! macOS is not needed on an iPad. They just need to keep on making those improvements and one day and I’m reckoning iPadOS 18 will nearly be there. Great channel.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and for the compliment! Totally agree (obvs). 🤩
When you can create OBS type content on your iPad then I might be able to use it as a computer. Until then, it isn't any better for me than a Chromebook. An iPad or Chromebook are limited computers. Ever since buying my M1 MacBook I have been reaching less for my iPad to where I only really use it now for when I go fly (ie a task specific device and not a general computer).
This is fair. Having that capability on an iPad would be a game-changer for a lot of people.
9:54 Web development is cool, and I use my iPad for it too, but when it comes to software like VS Code, I struggle to find any app, that is similar to it. I need virtual machines and a proper terminal. I want scripts and coding languages to be run on the iPad, like on macOS. Most apps are still lacking in features that I often use on my Mac. If the iPad evolves and allows me to do my work in Mac quality but is optimized for touch interactions, I'd consider calling it a fully fledged computer.
You make a fair comment. I don’t work in this area at all so don’t have any thoughts on it. Hopefully app developers create something for future iPadOS that fits the bill for what you’re looking for.
Try working on as simple as Excel on iPad. Also Safari can't handle most of web apps.
Don’t use Excel so can’t comment on that, but isn’t that a Microsoft issue that they need to sort, not Apple? What web apps are you talking about that it can’t handle? Would love to try some of them out that you’re thinking about.
As an individual with a physical disability, my new M4 iPad Pro 11 inch is my new computer. I find touchscreen much easier to use than keyboards. If someday I need a keyboard just get the magic keyboard for my 11 inch iPad are computers for most people they would do the job just fine.
Appreciate you taking the time to leave an interesting point - accessibility! I should have touched upon that in the video. From my perspective Apple do a great job with this, but as someone with a disability what do you think?
What are you doing on your M4 iPad Pro that you couldn't do on the M2 iPad Air? I'm genuinely interested!
@@mark_kelly in my opinion, Apple is the only tech company that does as much for accessibility. I won’t buy an android product. They’re too confusing and hard to find accessibility options. I am an Apple boy all the way through.
This video was excellent-it really clarified a lot about this topic. I recently switched from MacOS to iPadOS as my needs changed. I love the simplicity of iPadOS, which lets me focus solely on my tasks without distractions. There are a few minor improvements needed, but overall, it meets my needs well. I’m tired of the argument that iPads need to run MacOS-they don’t! If people want a detachable touchscreen, they should encourage Tim to add that feature to MacBooks instead of altering the fundamental nature and strengths of the iPad.
Thanks for your comment! What minor improvements would you like to see?
I think the Files app is quite good overall, but it could use some enhancements. For instance, I’d appreciate the ability to format detachable storage to exFAT and to see file copying progress. As for Stage Manager, I like that it limits the number of windows on stage to four. However, I’d prefer an option to increase this number when using an external screen. Also, the Home Screen app icons take up too much space with excessive padding. It would be great if the icons were closer together, or at least if there was an option to adjust this. While these issues don’t bother me significantly, I still thoroughly enjoy using iPadOS as my daily driver. Some things can be a bit difficult like the simple use case of setting an image as wallpaper from Files, I end up having to preview the file then save the image to Photos and then open up the image in Photos in order to set it as wallpaper - crazy :)
Rather do Dual boot - If u want a proper workstation like a macbook then u choose option 1 : boots up into macos and you can use full resources of your ram 8gb/16gb depending on your purchase choice-.....Should you be travelling and you want a ipad then choose option 2 and it activate ipad os 18(hopefully lol). This way the user gets to choose what experience they have according to their lifestyles.
Dual booting sounds interesting, but I think iPadOS and macOS serve different purposes really well. Keeping them separate ensures each OS is optimised for the device it’s on. iPadOS is great for a touch interface and portability, while macOS excels at being a desktop OS.
That said, having more flexibility and options for users is always a good discussion!
@@mark_kelly I agree with you how you see it but i think even if if they give us mac os on the unit it will be the same as ipad os at the moment - you can do a few things such as video edit but the finer touches and more resourceful editing happens on the desktop or macbook.... so i still think having mac os on it they will limit it so you get the experience but you still will not be able to get all the resources to do what the macbook or mini could perform. we will probably just have to wait and see - its very difficult to predict as all we get is just power cpu after cpu after cpu progress but we still cant tap into all that power its more confusion out there in the market.
To me, this is a bit of a weird take. I get a lot of the points you make, and the way I see it is the following: You can consider yourself very lucky that the iPad works for you. You are one of the few people for which the right apps exist, the workflow is right, the limitations of iPad OS aren't a showstopper. But for a LOT of other people, there are so many roadblocks in the iPad experience as it is now. Let's say you want to run a music setup off of an iPad.. you can't because the iPad will loose connection to your devices at some point. Let's say you want to do some UI design in Figma.. you can't, because the browser version doesn't properly work with the magic keyboard and there's no iPad app. Let's say you want to use a proper DAW with VST support.. you can't because VST isn't supported on iPad OS and even the AU integration is weak as hell, mostly because of the lack of proper window management.And what about other "truly Pro" applications? Can you imagine editing a Hollywood movie on an iPad? I definitely can't... but it's not because it lacks the power to do so. It's just software limitations. All the roadblocks that currently exist are born out of limitations of the underlying OS, and THAT'S the problem. If people want to use iPad in "baby mode" (Craig Federighis terminology here), that's fine. But slapping this thing on a 2000+ $ device and calling it "Pro" just doesn't cut it. I don't care what they call it, but they have to open the OS up and enable a broader variety of workflows, as they already do on macOS. Otherwise, I don't see the iPad Pro succeeding as a true Pro device.
Edit: And, as you can clearly tell, I'm very passionate about this. I bought the first redesigned iPad Pro in 2018 off all the promises Apple made (remember when they promised full-featuted Photoshop on iPad OS? It's still not there yet). And I was disappointed.
I read the passion! I hear you 😁. But I could also come back with the same statement and say a LOT of people DO use it for professional work - I feel this kind of statement needs some facts rather than just a feeling within ones circle of similar thinking peers and friends. But let me end this on an agreeable note and acknowledge that there is more to be done and the power does need to be unleashed somewhat … let’s see what happens at this years WWDC. I wish you well.
@@mark_kelly I'm not saying that it isn't used for professional work. But, sticking with the Hollywood movie example, I do know for a fact that most movies are edited in Avid Media Composer. An app that you can run on your MacBook Air, but not on your iPad Pro, simply because Apple doesn't want you to. And that's the frustrating part. But, if Apple really pulls off a big thing for iPad OS on WWDC, I'll be the first in line to buy a maxed-out M4 iPad Pro the day they release the Beta :D Btw.. I subscribed. I think the way you present your thoughts, even though I disagree with many of them on this topic, is really good!
Aw, thank you! That really means a lot. Had a little lump develop in my throat there.
I love it when folks can disagree but not fall out - especially when text doesn’t carry the intonation behind the comments.
Well said. We were lied to!
👉What's annoying is really the feeling that they are limiting the use of the hardware arbitrarily through software, so that people don't replace the laptop with an iPad. It seems very profit-driven instead of being consumer-driven, because from a consumer's point of view, there is zero downside in being able to choose between a pro macOS type and a basic iPadOS experience. The reason Apple isn't doing it has nothing to do with us and everything to do with profit. That's the frustrating part.
Agreed! But then I guess they wouldn’t be the rich company they are without putting the bottom line first.
Interesting topic Mark. I remember thinking in the days of BlackBerry and Windows Mobile that mobile and desktop OSes would converge. They haven't, except maybe with Android and Chromebooks. For the embedded software development I do, I need a cross-compiler suite, a terminal window (or an Integraded Desktop Environment), SSH, Telnet, thinks of that nature which you don't get on a tablet environment. Would be nice though.
That’s fair Ron.
If you wanna know a reason why I will always be an apple fanboy here it is. Apple is bringing eye tracking to the iPhone and iPad as part of iOS And iPadOS 18. Meaning you can use your iPad with your eyes by looking at an app just like on Vision Pro this is an absolute game changer
Looks pretty cool doesn’t it? 👀
It would be ideal if they gave you the choice of OS to install, but they won't because it'll cannibalise a whole sector of their business. They want to be able to sell you both the macbook and the iPad. On a side note, I connected my ipad pro 2024 to a second screen last night and it wouldn't let me play a plex stream on the extra monitor whilst also working on the screen. Basic stuff like that makes it hard to take super seriously as a primary driver. Don't get me wrong, I do love the iPad, I just see room for both types of devices. Especially as an enthusiast the fact that a full desktop gives you more versatility in hardware.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. There are still little annoyances that come up like the one you have pointed out that need sorting.
Microsoft has already proven that a tablet's Windows or desktop/laptop OS doesn’t work effectively in the tablet form. The iPad has become my primary personal computer device, and I’m not interested in using a Windows or Mac device as my personal computer. There are limitations with the iPad, but they have gradually disappeared. Due to the iPad's locked-down nature, I feel it has way better security than what I can get from Mac or Windows devices. Software developers need to enhance their apps so that there is a 1:1 ratio of features between the iPad version of the software and the Mac version.
I get where you’re coming from. The iPad’s portability and security are definitely big selling points. It’s impressive how far the iPad has come in terms of functionality. For plenty of people, including those who do professional work - like me - its become a solid primary device.
You’re right about the need for software parity. Developers closing that gap between iPad and desktop versions would make a huge difference. The security aspect of the iPad is also a valid point - Apple’s locked-down ecosystem does offer peace of mind.
Thanks for sharing your perspective!
I want padOS to run macOS apps. I don't want macOS on iPad.
Thanks for commenting! Interesting idea.
The reason people ask for MacOS is because Apple deliberately equips the iPadOS with substandard desktop features and functions so they partition the devices to be more specialized and limited between tablets and laptops so they can try to sell one or the other and both as opposed to cannabalizing one market.
See this write-up of the incessant problems Apple sustains in iPadOS:
"Not an iPad Pro Review: Why iPadOS Still Doesn’t Get the Basics Right"
- you can goggle it for the list. Bear in mind Apple is about to release a list of new accessibility features that are mind-blowing in quality. So it does very much beg the question why has it taken over a decade to implement simple desktop features that work that were possible in desktops in the 90s?
As said Apple deliberately restricts the iPad: It's got a big enough screen, the hardware performance is equivalent to top laptopts, you can plug in keyboard/mouse... it's MORE THAN CAPABLE of running desktop services eg windows manager, file-manager (not app centric messy inconsistent behaviour), multi-tasking (not stage manager beta software), background services utility control to the user, virtualization, terminal and the list goes on broadening the user base who can use it as a desktop-capable productivity device thus saving them money if they choose a 2-in-1 device. Webkit is another way Apple restricts users so the MS Office Apps are a poorer version or less compatible with websites and so on.
Thanks for your comment. There is much truth in what you are saying!
People never ask themselves, is this for me?
Sometimes shiny things are just too tempting!
You don't really need to put entire macOS on iPad, just let it run macOS apps. I like my iPad but the fact it is so powerful, yet it cannot run professional software makes me annoyed beyond believe.
Thanks for commenting. I agree that some apps need to be ‘let loose’ and show us what they’re capable of with such a powerful machine available. For instance, why isn’t an app I use so often, Pixelmator, not the same on the iPad as it is on the Mac?
The problem is the devs not Apple everyone wants to say it’s Apple all the time. Look at Davinci, Affinity, fabfilter all 1:1 ports.
Once you get desktop equivalent apps on your iPad. Equivalent hardware will eventually come along. This means your ipad now needs to have fans. Then, we will eventually say we need a bigger screen to get more done. Next thing you know, we are walking around with a 16-inch tablet with our preferred mouse and keyboard. Lmao 🤣 . The sad truth is I think both parties are right in wanting an ipad to be like a desktop PC, and also for an ipad to stay and ipad.
@@fashopimpin Yep exactly this, everyones complaints mostly come down to third party devs being cautious about putting desktop apps on the ipad
The iPad could be everything. Apple knows it. It will never happen. They are busy making 4 versions of iPads/iPhones etc. Give people choices within their own ecosystem. Have the consumer not ask themselves windows or macOS - Samsung or iPhone etc - but instead : which iPad is the right one for me.
I think the iPad is a great product - but it could potentially be so strong that it would effectively kill of not only the Macbooks but also many normal windows laptops.
Appreciate your thoughts. I concede to your point - Apple could do so much more with the iPad but they don’t want to kill off their other profitable product line.
People don't complain about numbers or windows that can be opened at once, never heard of that. The most important is that some professional software that you can't run on the iPad despite great specs... and the most important,- if you professional and you spending 8 hours+ working, you need ergonomic settings otherwise you going to develop hump, and lower back problems...I couldn't connect my iPad to the external monitor after software update... is great to have portable machines but they are not reliable and you getting unpredictable problems after updating software and you loosing functionality.... that's make me reluctant to invest in the iPad again in the future. I need insurance that I always going to be able to use my iPad in desktop mode and that wouldn't change after a software update....After this update and 0 solution after contacting apple support, I went back to my old Mac.... And I don't want to buy two devices, in the future Mac and iPad because this is so wasteful.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. It’s true that, annoyingly, some desired full featured software isn’t available on the iPad, which can be a dealbreaker for some.
Regarding the software update issue and connecting to an external monitor, that’s frustrating. Software updates should improve functionality, not hinder it. I hope Apple addresses this in future updates. Your experience highlights the need for reliable and consistent performance, which is essential for professional use.
AppleOS that runs on everything is the solution. one unified OS for a supposedly unified ecosystem. it all runs on the same architecture anyway.
I appreciate your thoughts! I doubt Apple will ever do this, but you never know. 😀
You can't run Xcode. Period
So I’ve been very much made aware!
Some genuinely terrible arguments, developers have to re-imagine software not to mention spend countless hours remaking the same features to allow it to work on an OS that arguably isn't even well suited for that workload in the first place.
All while current users have to find awkward workarounds for the same result.
The only people that loss out in this scenario are Apple, just because a lack of Desktop OS is not essential you for does not mean it's not essential for others.
I also think that people that belittle work on the iPad are making a terrible argument, if a product does what you want in a way you find appealing as far as I'm concerned its a valid tool.
However in this case it's a product that could do both, if as a result certain software doesn't make it to iPad OS it probably means that the demand was only there due to the limitation enforced by Apple.
Despite you’re comment that I’ve made some “terrible arguments” I value your perspective!
hi
Hello! 🤩
From my angle: I use Logic Pro on the Mac. I need many resizable freely movable plugin windows to open at the same time. That is how a DAW works. Currently not possible on iPadOS.
The iPad does a lot of things well. Some things it does better than the Mac.
Currently the Pro experience on the iPad is very lacking in many professional grade software compared to the Mac.
If i can't use pro software properly on iPadOS then a base iPad is perfectly suitable for the rest of today's experience.
If iPadOS does not change:
Mac - for pro use
iPad - media consumption.
Because phones are getting bigger and bigger there is less appeal for the iPad.
They should dual boot the iPad Pro and make it their top of the line most expensive product. It would do more than a Mac, it would cost more than a Mac (with the keyboard and the pencil)
Thanks for your thoughtful comment. I would love totally free moving windows for the iPad and not be shackled to a grid.
Excel on iPad can't even do non-adjacent cell selection, which I use to pay bills once a week. Formatting options for documents are non-existent. External display support is idiotic (stage manager). I have an iPad Air M2 and use it all the time, but it's not a computer-replacement for even the most basic and simple of tasks.
“It’s not a computer-replacement for even the most basic of tasks.”
“Formatting for documents is non-existent.”
“External display support is idiotic.”
What? These statements are disingenuous at best!
In this video I list many, many things that I use my iPad for, both basic and professional tasks and it does them with aplomb.
We’re clearly not going I agree on this one.
I thought I was the only one thinking that iPad should continue having iPad OS. It's appalling how even the biggest UA-camrs and tech reviewers whine about iPad and wish that it had Mac OS. I hate Mac OS but love iPad OS. I would never want the iPad to have Mac OS.
Thanks for your comment. You’re not the only one 🤩