Is there a Vintage Card BUBBLE?? 👀🤔
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- Today we discuss if there is a vintage card bubble that’s about to pop?
When is the best time to sell your baseball prospects? We
react to PSA refusing to regrade previous submissions and discuss
how much the WBC may impact the card market?
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Wow seriously sorry Ron Santo "where ever you are out there" he has passed away some years ago I can not believe he said that and no one replied but me!!! Sad really sad it's all about the mighty dollar!!!
He didn’t think Santo was alive. The expression “wherever you are out there” is him hoping out loud that Santo is in heaven. It just isn’t a common expression these days so I am not surprised that it threw you for a loop.
Also, the vintage market is not full of flippers and twenty year olds trying to make a fast buck. There’s a lot more patience in the market. There will never be a “flood” of Willie Mays rookie cards hitting the market like you see with ultra modern or even junk wax guys. Vintage is the best card investments IMO.
To make the example, imagine you can have a $20,000 Scottie Barnes card today or $20,000 in Ruth, Mantles, Mays, Hanks, etc. Now, let’s say you can’t sell for five years. What do you think will be worth more in five years? The answer is easy
It is also full of channels on UA-cam like this one. 69 comments on 8,000 views . This channel buys views every upload. Killing everyone else in the community who does not.
Little kids on here uploading ripping packs with their dads....and these Douche bags.....just cant help it.
They have to look COOL ONLINE.
Frauds....Fakes...................Full of Crap.
Ask old Sports Card Experts to see their $3.00 Rpm
Yeah I can't.see vintage ever going down. They are just getting older and much harder to find year after year.
Vintage is much better than seeing what new scams Fanatics will try and do-----
There will be plenty of Fanatics scams, cause they are clueless and plain stink.
Ron Santo R.I.P. (2010)
Don’t know what you’re talking about. Anything vintage (pre-1970) will most likely stay consistent in value because they overcome extraordinary odds just to survive.
No bubble here, I’d say a solid brick.
Top 5 Vintage Baseball Cards to Buy Now!
ua-cam.com/video/bb_mEetlYGA/v-deo.html
Probably a bubble for your portfolio of cards since you went on a drunken buying spree at all time high prices.
Basic Econ 101 .... Vintage (sorry ultra modern influencers) is the safest play today and tomorrow. Supply and Demand Curve ... supply is likely about 1/250 of the cards produced from 2019-2022 ... if not more. What's a safer play? A Hank Aaron RC or a Julio Rodriguez High End RC? I'll wait ... vintage is and always will be the safe and smart play as those player's careers are over and legacy already cemented versus what could be an injury or one year wonder (Joe Charboneau anyone?).
TAG grading is going to replace people with different opinions grading cards.
Collect because you love to,not because of anything else. At 58, I've been through the era of childhood where I can't even count the number of cards ruined by the spokes of my bicycle and flipped or traded on the bus . My collection is that of my love of sports and if members of my family express interest in the hobby so be it. Some people look at dollar value solely. I'm not there yet. Holding out hope my family members gain appreciation for the hobby.
Why did he say if a Mickey Mantle grades a 5 that’s not a good card 😂
I think some people are misunderstanding how the vintage market works.
People who are collecting vintage don’t sell it, they collect it. And then they upgrade it until they can’t upgrade it anymore.
This is what collectors do and why there isn’t that many of these cards on the market.
I’m not saying that it’s not going to go down but all higher grade vintage cards are probably a really good investment because of this.
Thanks for your discussion you guys are doing a great job!
When influencers are pumping something hard, investors are already too late.
100% 🔥🔥🔥
Exactly
If you want to know something even about the investment angle of buying vintage, I don't know that I'd recommend taking the advice of influencers who are into 95% big $ ultramodern cards that they treat like tech stocks. We shouldn't go after Tommy Lasorda's "stuff"? The dude literally had ONE card. Worst example in the world! These guys are knowledgeable about some things sure, but vintage is clearly not at the top of the list...
You did not mention that there are a ton of Hall of Fame vintage set collectors that are not going away. Even the Ron Santos of the world are in demand because of the set collectors.
Top 5 Vintage Baseball Cards to Buy Now!
ua-cam.com/video/bb_mEetlYGA/v-deo.html
Love the "Hank Aaron Home Run King" pennant on the wall in the background. Also, very informative. Keep up the good work.
Fools gold was DIbbs.... unopened Select Football...Will Grier's career.... six figure GOATS at the top of the market....etc. To take advice from this fella.... take it with grains of ocean salt.
"Sorry Ron Santo wherever you are out there." He's dead, Geoff.
PSA grading is like judging the Mr. Olympia bodybuilding contest, subjective at the highest level. If they can make an 8, a 10 on a resubmit, how accurate are the ratings in the first place.
Signed vintage cards are what’s rare and will continue to go up
No bubble, just solid as a rock
Top 5 Vintage Baseball Cards to Buy Now!
ua-cam.com/video/bb_mEetlYGA/v-deo.html
I think the bigger issue will be the secondary market for a cracked card. In the scenario where I buy the cracked BGS card (or any raw card) with plans to grade, and then suddenly told by PSA I can't grade the card. And the owner of the card may have no idea of that fact. I think Geoff said they'd put it in a slab with the prior grade? That's even problematic because the raw handling could have made the card become in worse shape. So then effectively it's "we'll grade the grade, but the max it could possibly get was what it had the last time".
Some vintage hockey you are lucky to find a copy of the card you want . Hockey is the safest investment .
Its mostly collectors thats why
People play 'follow the leader' in this industry & Sports Card Investor has been a 'leader', the past couple years, in giving people advice on what players & cards they should be buying...
"Will Grier is about 4X better of an investment right now..."
This dude doesn't know what he's doing, he lost crazy money with his "investments" 😂😂
WE WILL SEE JEFF ON A AMERICAN GREED EPISODE; TOTAL HUSTLER.
Economy bubble. It going to be a horror show.
People are grading anything and everything regarding 50s and 60s cards of HOFers. In the end, eye appeal always wins with vintage IMO. I see a lot of vintage cards that have no business being graded (badly off centered, creased or tattered), but people sub regardless. With that being said, there are some beautiful lower grade vintage cards out there. PSA 3.5 is a total stealth grade for some reason. I recently picked up a 1953 Topps Campanella in a 3 and it's a gorgeous card as well as a 1958 "Braves Fence Busters" in a 2.5 which also presents really really well. It's all in the eye of the beholder I guess
Willie Mays and Koufax cards are heavily invested in because people are waiting to profit off their death sadly. When that sad time comes for either one the market will be flooded with them like what happened to Hank Aaron after his death, Although that was more sudden and during the height of Vintage prices.
If PSA would grade the cards correctly the first time then people would not need to send them to grade again.
No bubble I think, these players are in Top 5 all time. It will normalize not burst.
Top 5 Vintage Baseball Cards to Buy Now!
ua-cam.com/video/bb_mEetlYGA/v-deo.html
I'm mainly buying cheap vintage graded cards at the moment and pre modern. I think they're the best investments. Also cracking out psa 5-7 slabs and sending elsewhere is the way forward. PSA grading levels are too inconsistent
Top 5 Vintage Baseball Cards to Buy Now!
ua-cam.com/video/bb_mEetlYGA/v-deo.html
The PSA regrading thing sucks for anyone trying to buy raw. You will never know what has been cracked out of a disappointing slab and listed raw on eBay.
Don’t send to PSA. Send to SGC.
I'm young and I flip modern/ultra-modern to fund my PC of pre-war cards. None of these bad boys are ever hitting the market if I can help it
Psa keeping track of serial numbers isn’t a big deal. If you believe it’s under graded send it in for review in the case. Happens in coins with PCGS every day.
So long as professional sports are around, vintage will always be collectible and, consequently, continue to appreciate in value, even the "second tier HOFers" (hate that term) will keep their value, especially the rookies and early year cards, and especially the higher grades, 7 and up.
As for Ron Santo, he is a Cubs legend and a HOFer. He may not have career numbers like Babe Ruth, but he is in the Hall of Fame and Cubbie fans and HOF collectors in general will continue to seek out his rookie in the long term.
There has always been and will continue to be quite a large constituency among collectors seeking HOFer rookie cards. Many of these collectors are truly into the sport, and not just modern play, but the whole history of the sport is important and fascinating to them. Sure, they never saw Vic Willis play, or Pee Wee Reese, or Cobb, Monte Irvin, etc., but they appreciate the history and owning a 1941 Double Play Harold Reese rookie or a Hank Greenberg Goudey is like owning a piece of baseball card history. And you do see more younger folks picking up vintage cards because these cards are part of baseball card history, they represent important figures in the history of the game, they are often unique and scarce, many of the vintage sets like 50-52 Bowman are just beautiful, etc.
There is no vintage bubble for higher grade (7 and up) rookies and early cards of HOFers, including "2nd tier" because high grade HOFer cards, in particular their rookie cards, will always be sought by collectors, and not just grandfathers as someone on here posted.
These are pieces of baseball history and the card collecting history.
And as for supply and demand, yes, there may be a decent amount of raw vintage cards still around, but how many of those cards from the teens, 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, even the 60s are in higher grades? I would wager that the answer is, not a lot.
Top 5 Vintage Baseball Cards to Buy Now!
ua-cam.com/video/bb_mEetlYGA/v-deo.html
The grading process is going to horrible for collectors when they buy these serial numbered cards. If someone sends it in and gets bad grade... They crack and sell to someone else. That new person is now screwed and doesn't even know it. That's not transparency
I think pre 70s is still solid. Although I can't see prices staying this high forever.
100%
Early 50s Lasorda would totally grade. He's a HOF Mgr. Now an 89 Topps Lasorda no point in grading... LOL
What is this guy talking about? Don't buy Mantle because it's in a lower grade?! Most of his cards are from, nearly 60 years ago, and Mantle is still king of vintage. 🤷♀
Nothing against Deepvalue Investor but precovid Mays cards were EXTREMELY UNDERVALUED compared to Mantle. And as much as everyone loves Mantle, Mays is the better player and IMO is top 2-3 ALL TIME. It's not the tier 1 players cards that are gonna fade...Hank Aaron (3k+ hits, 755Hrs), Mays, Mantle, Ruth, etc. It's the tier 2 guys in low grade i would be worried about prices holding... that being said most guys that collect tier 2 HOFers are collectors and not looking to flip anyway. Keep in mind if one wants a high grade Mays you are gonna have to fork up 5 figures... with so many collectors who want a RC of top 2 player of all time low grades are all that can be afforded.
The card market I feel like anything can happen any time and ruin a price from $1000 to $275
Re: selling prospects. We say the same thing ALL the time in FIFA. Sell in the hype! 9 times out of 10, you’re better off selling in that hype, and buying later on if they start playing well. But of course, depends on what you’re in it for. Nice vid as always!
Unfortunately Ron Santo passed away years ago. So that’s where he is.
I disagree Willie Mays is the best baseball player of all time . I have been collecting cards since 1988 , Vintage is always a better investment look at how many rookies cards does any current star player have in any sport 100+ a lot more risk over produced . So Jeff you should be talking about the modern card market not the Vintage . Always buy the GOATS Mays , Mantle , Ruth , Jordan ,Kareem ,Brady , Rice and that's all folks !!!
I think for the grading and regrading... I think they will have to open up a dispute claim or something
It seems that recent top sales, such as The Mickey Mantle has had a great influence on the Vintage Market.
Top 5 Vintage Baseball Cards to Buy Now!
ua-cam.com/video/bb_mEetlYGA/v-deo.html
Total pop count for the 52 Mays is 3,852 and at the time of the podcast the recent sale was $12,300 2/8 for a psa 4. I chose Mays because the discussion is around perceived safety and hot money flocking to the space. People are not running to vintage Lasorda I’m sorry. Appreciate the discussion and don’t expect the masses to agree with me…it’s actually part of the argument.
How would PSA know the serial number of a card cracked out of the case if you don't submit it? Unless they are doing something to the card directly like marking card with invisible black light paint how would they know?
The serial number on the card
Like a gold /10
Not the psa cert #
Vintage is where it is, very few cards, not like a ton of ultra modern cards, gezzz 1 rookie card on most, not 2,000
Good discussion on vintage. I believe that most (at least 90%) vintage cards are still held raw. Over time pop reports will balloon and vintage will flatline, just like it did between 1990-2015. The top tier HOF’ers like Ruth, Cobb, and Mantle will see slight increases over the next decade. The lower tier HOFers, will slowly decline.
Where do you find out the winners for the giveaway of the prism football boxes
This show is always very well done. And the panel is of people who really collect and clearly enjoy the hobby. The intelligent insight and debate is very good. This show reminds me of a sports debate show you would see on ESPN except a bit more niche. Great stuff. Keep it up. Love this content.
Bring on guests and make show longer.
Would love to hear on the TAG grading company, your thoughts and would it be one of the top grading company's?
Friends.., the thing is: Nobody lives forever. Also: As you watch television, live your lives, and watch the World turn.., each and every day, so it seems.. events such as: Natural Disasters, Forest Fires, Homes Going Up In Flames, Storage Units Being Cleaned Out and Contents Discarded, The Problems With High Humidity, Mold and More Slowly Destroy Cellulose Cards, and the list goes on.
Friends..: As time passes, Time naturally decreases the Population of all cards, it's just that simple. Collectors, also damage and destroy their own collections periodically. This happens due to storage fatigue, carelessness, and the like. ..In the end, sports cards naturally decrease in population size, which is why it is so difficult to find the original Babe Ruth cards from so long ago. IMO, vintage cards in good condition will always be in demand, so long as you collect the correct players. Hope this helps. - Peace. \\//
Great content 👍 following up on the Vintage part. What are your thoughts about value when it comes to BVG vs PSA vs SGC ? I had this discussion at a show recently. I had a 1966 Clemente BVG 3 and another guy had a SGC 3. Not a top $$ card but based of facts not feelings what company holds more value ? And why ?
I like SGC. They have a passionate and loyal fanbase, the slabs look great in the tuxedo.
Please burst so I can buy more.
When all the boomers die off, who will buy all their cards that hit the market when their grandsons try to sell them?
I'd rather have a Nolan Ryan rookie graded a PSA 5 than a gem mint Luka Doncic base 10. I don't see this as a bubble. Seems like some people that got in over their head on modern trying to drop the vintage market so they can get in.
I like the investor side..I also like people that collect because they love it. The card industry is at an all time high. The younger generations are also very capable of researching and watching important historical players in an instant. A lot of comments here are simply about age groups. Thats flawed
Topic for debate: why is 9.8 accepted in comic books as a top tier grade, while the card market disagrees with 9.5’s. as gem mint or mint plus.
You can't compare comics to cards, as has been proven already
why people keep paying top dollar for QB’s that haven’t won a SB yet is beyond me.
You got to remember, to the majority of the population (out of your collecting club) it's just a piece of cardboard.
The Vig on Vintage is still GOOD as long as you're not a FOOL.
Question...I have over 100 PSA10 of Alphonso Davies. Thoughts?
Love the host, the right data is IMPORTANT when trying to discover something. Great work
Hi, thank you so much for all the information you guys have given me!
What about the early 90s?!
You guys should talk about ohtani next episode
Just a thought but with the name “Cards on the table” it would be cool if you had some of the actual cards you talk about on the table. I understand you might not have all the cards you talk about but either way just a thought.
Come on Geoff, you should know Ron Santo passed away.
Vintage marvel took a hit. But anything is possible
Hot topic like going long Select????? Hmmmm Geoff…..
Great point, Future Rapper. Deep insight.
I like that PSA will track cards and it'll make pop reports more accurate. The only downfall if they give same grade as prior it'll be bad for instances where like you had a fingerprint on it then crack, clean it, and resub well it obviously should be a better grade since it's been cleaned but in that theory it won't. So idk has pros and cons for sure. I say that cause I just sent a Herbert rookie that I know didn't have a fingerprint especially where it is and idk if middleman or psa employee but someone (lefty) pulled out my card in broad daylight and TOUCHED it!! Haha they gave it an 8...
They need to be able to track the cards but also adjust the grade accordingly.
Psa need better graders.
Haha, T-pot and these guys did everything in their power to destroy the Ultra Modern cards. Actually, them and other influencers created both the bubble and the bust of ultra modern.
The absolute destruction of the ultra modern market occurred when these guys and those like them, discovered if you spread fear, viewership goes through the roof.
They started fomenting nonstop fear about pop counts and prices, etc. obviously, the cards followed their predictions. If EVERY stock market pundit was predicting crash as doomsday as these guys did, the market would 100% crash. Actually, this is the basis for many market crashes, bank runs, etc.
These guys then snubbed ultra modern and praised vintage, 90s, early 2000s etc. The pop count hysteria was dramatically overstated! Many vintage cards have huge populations! Early 2000s rookie cards like Lebron James, have very similar serial numbered card counts as ultra modern guys like taytum or Morant. THEY DIDNT DO THE FACT FINDING CORRECTLY! They freak out about the number of different cards printed today, which is very true, way more variation in cards printed. BUT, THE SERIAL NUMBERED CARDS BACK IN THE DAY EERE OFTRN SERIAL NUMBERED TO /2000 or more and THERE WERE MORE COMPANIES MAKING CARDS IN THE 2000s. Panini lowered the /count, so instead of a /2000, the did /1, /5, /10, /25, /50, /100, /150, /250…etc. The end result is you have thirty different cards compared to the past of one single /2000, but the actual print counts are not radically different.
It’s actually better, they split the value of the /2000 card and made it so the /1, /5, /10, /25 have considerable value and it gets progressively smaller as it gets to a higher serial numbered card. It’s actually a far superior way of doing it and makes collecting much more enjoyable and strategic.
The influencers have created an odd sense of pessimism in the ultra modern market, which has pushed these cards to the lowest level they’ve ever been. I’m personally okay with it, but we do want appreciation for the market to work well. It’s stops working when everything goes down. BUT THAT IS WHEN YOU HAVE OPPORTUNITIES!
I personally stopped buying vintage over a year ago, yea, I missed a lot of upside. But it was obvious to me that prices on dead players, was getting out of control. Vintage has ALWAYS been very slow to appreciate because the performance bounces are non existent. The death bounce and/or hall of fame bounce is about it. But, what we see is guys like T-pot, really hammer ultra modern cards and kind of encourage people to shift into buying dead guys.
Now, the vintage market is having its moment in the wood shed. I dropped about 3/4 of my vintage collection a year ago, again, yes, left a lot on the table. But the vintage market needs to find its normal level and it won’t surprise me if you see people gravitating toward the battered market, modern and ultra modern, as vintage gets beat up. The thing people don’t realize about vintage is there are so damn many of these cards still in the raw! Historically, vintage collectors have been far less concerned about grading and then it still happens where huge vintage collections are passed down from family to family, at which point the selling sometimes occurs. Also, Beckett’s pop counts are way off! I have a bunch of cards that you can’t even find in Beckett’s pop count and they are always vintage. My point, vintage has a much higher pop than people realize! But it’s true, people tend to keep them in their collections more than sell them. But that will change if we are about to see a 50% drop.
Lastly, people are buying and holding ultra modern. I was approached to be in a buying group of Ja Morant cards, essentially a group that buys Ja Morant rarer cards and colludes with one another. Any sales, have to be offered to the group at a deemed fair market value. They are essentially attempting to buy the market of his higher end cards. Some of the rules seemed really hard to enforce, so I never got back to them. I think it’s a cool concept though, multiple people pooling money to buy cards and then keep in mutual accounts? It’s happening and it’s only because the massive amount of negativity that was fomented by influencers on ultra modern. Actually, I couldn’t help but wonder if influencers aren’t behind it?! What a smart move, essentially, foment the dump and buy?!?! It’s possible.
people like the cards in slabs. including me
Do you think you can have more of these shows with T-Pott, Ben, and Doug? They had awesome chemistry together, meshed really really well.
Never will happen, why would they stop making money on submissions
Hes never right so no bubble
Yall talk how shitty the wax era is lemme see u get a psa 10 from the pre 95 era goodluck
Nailed it T-Pott as usual!
I have a Shohei Ohtani that was graded 5 by psa, sent to bgs and get this 2 9's 1 9.5 and a 4, graded 5. My question, did beckett find the psa information before my final grade was issued?
Yes and it’s the dumbest bubble of all time. You have people buying cards of players they’ve never watched play nor even knew. Buying vintage because they believe it’s safe. Most money moved into vintage when the spike of 21 happened and receded.
Hi sports card collector I’m a new collector and I didn’t win your giveaway but do you have any tips😅😅
Don't listen to SCI, they are clueless
all the blowing up was fun, come back to reality
Very likely vintage is in a huge bubble it has been for quite awhile. Always dangerous when so many people pile in. The time to sell most vintage is now,not buy 😆
Hi Geoff, blessings and #1 comment 😉
Thank you for getting rid of the beep
Hey ✋ i need a box 🎁 help me 😅
Ron Santo is dead. Do your homework guys before you "dis"him.
You guys always kill the hype smh
Invest in Ja Morant Before The Playoff Starts!
Morant-Bane-JJJ trio will go BIG!!
Ive been saying this for years. As collectors become less and less connected to players, the card values will go down. When people can no longer say "Mickey Mantle was my grandfathers favorite" then the card will plummet
Why have Ty Cobb, Cy Young and Honus Wagner cards not plummeted? Nobodies Grandfather watched them.
@@jasonhipkins because collectors today were told stories of them when we were younger. Are you passing along the names and stories of those players to your kids, the next generation of collectors? I know Im not.
Ken Burns passes on the story for every generation. These cards will always hold high values.
The Shirley Temple effect. Possible, but I think as long as fathers and kids connect to the hobby, should not be a major factor.
I feel like vintage prices are fake anyways. Just a bunch of old people selling cards to each other to pump up the value. They probably have thousands of cards in their attic. At least we have # cards in the modern era.
You are so wrong its almost not worth responding, almost
Strange comment. Lacking.
@Ozsportscard Collector 2.5 They made so many vintage cards they were literally dumping them in the ocean.
First
The TikTok generation won't care about vintage or sub 90's players unless it's a name like Jordan. Mantle and Mays are outside the scope of relevance with the millennials and younger, moving away from baseball. Those are your "grandpa's cards" of yesterday, to be collected by your grandpa.
😂 reality is the younger generations have brought card collecting to the highest it's ever been. Same generation is able to find information and content regarding older players instantly. I wouldn't make assumptions like you've made
That is a legitimate worry with longtime collectors. I love vintage and have a large collection, however, my kids would rather own Charizard.
Old generation that strictly collects vintage will one day not be here and younger people will not care about players they have barely heard of. Many of these cards will be dumped in future and never collected that way again.
Disagree
Disagree .... I was never around to see Ruth, Gehrig, Ted Williams, Stan Musial, Jackie Robinson, et. play yet still collect them hard as they are legends of the game ... sounds like someone here is heavily invested into 2019-2022 which IMO is going to go down as the next junk wax era!
@@cardcollector1754 wrong to make assumptions about another collector. Just stating my opinion on what will be collected 20-30 years from now.
You are making assumptions yourself about others ... as am I. Those are called opinions ... and yours IMO has no basis of fact nor does it match with collecting over the last 50-years. In the 70's "the kids" did not know "or care about" Ruth, Gehrig, Musial. et. yet as they got older they collected them ... in the 80's "the kids" did not know or watch Mantle, Aaron, Robinson or Musial .. yet they collected them as they are the greats. This will always be the case .. collecting habits change as you get older, just like your habits do in all facets of life.
Anthony volpe or oswald peraza