Emotiva RMC-1 vs Marantz Cinema 50 Sound Quality
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- Опубліковано 18 гру 2022
- Emotiva RMC-1 vs Marantz Cinema 50 Sound Quality
In this video we compare the sound quality of the Emotiva RMC-1 AV Processor to the that of the Marantz Cinema 50 AV Receiver.
If you are considering Emotiva products, use the following affiliate link to help support this channel - emotiva.com?aff=18 - Розваги
Please keep this up. I feel no one is talking about receivers and processors and comparing them the way you are.
Dale - thanks for the encouragement. I am trying to understand the differences between models and types. These videos are simply me sharing my own thought process to arrive at a better understanding of what makes a system good.
As an engineer I try limit the number of variables and unknowns as much as possible in my test plan. That simplification makes it easier to determine which elements have a positive or negative impact on the result.
Receivers today are very complex as they are handling many duties - particularly processing and amplification. As the Cinema 50 has pre outs along with the abilities to disconnect the amplifiers entirely, that simplifies the comparison.
To assess the quality of a receiver’s amplifiers I can compare against my reference external amps with a speaker A/B switch to hear the differences without relying on long-term memory.
I continue to think of techniques like those to fairly compare and pinpoint which elements influenced the sound the greater for good or bad.
Happy share and learn from this group.
Jon
Great video! This is exactly the same question I have for a while now. After watching this comparsion, no doubt I will go with Emotiva processor plus external amp. Thank you so much!
Good content and you did a splendid job explaining the differences. Looking forward to more comparisons.
Thanks for the encouragement. I will continue to report on my findings with these units I will have in my system as a long-term assessment. -Jon
I have the Emotiva XMC--2 pre amp and all Emotiva amps. The 3.1 upgrade made a huge stability improvement and now I am quite happy with what I--paid for.
Joseph - Thanks for sharing. I suspect the XMC-2 performs similar to the RMC-1 on the front stage. Glad to hear you had success with the 3.1 upgrade. So far, mine has been running very well under 3.1 also. - Jon
I’m appreciating the content here. Especially since I’m also running a 20yr old Sony TAE9000es with 2 TAN9000es’ in BTL mode. I’ve never gotten tired of the sound the system achieves. I only miss the modern luxuries of hdmi connectivity and wireless streaming. I’m researching my next processor and the emotiva is on my short list, as well as an Anthem. The recent sound united releases has tipped my interest but this video just proves my worries about them, I just won’t be getting an upgrade. Thank you for a interesting channel. 😊
Can’t believe how many Sony TA-E9000ES users are still out there. Glad you wrote.
I think I will expand my testing as a result to include comparison with that vintage model and try some REW measurements as well for a less subjective analysis. -Jon
I can't believe you guys are comparing ES - Sony (Elevated Standard) the best of the best of "yesteryear" with a mid-range AVR with more features than can be possibly expected at any price point. Yes...the Cinena50 can be best compared to the SR6015 with a new faceplate, processing, but no Marantz afficionado in his right mind would call the SR6015 a top performer. So if you want apples to apples compare the AV7706 or 8805 to your ES. Chances are, the Marantz will wipe the floor with it.
If you absolutely want to compare apples to oranges, then go to the SR7015/SR8015. I wouldn't be surprised if even those two outperform the geriatric ES.
Well can today’s mid-range car outperform a high end car from 20+ years ago - in many cases yes. This was worthwhile to know how much the market has matured. What I am learning is the maturity has come in the form of features. -Jon
Love this channel, great work as usual my friend
Thanks for your continued encouragement. -Jon
To answer your question at the end of your vid, we started our system with a receiver (actually multiple receivers thru the years such as Onkyo, Harman Kardon, Marantz) and slowly weaned off internal amps. Then after when we had all external amps for our 7.2.6 system we switched to a processor and used the old receiver in another room. As usual, nice job Jon.
J B. - Thanks for providing your upgrade story. Your upgrade path makes sense. Also like the continued use of older equipment in other rooms. -Jon
Same here, I moved my old Yamaha TSR7850 to living room for TV, and it is really awesome with 2.1 setup!
Great video. Really enjoy your breakdowns.
Thanks! -Jon
Thank you for doing this comparison!
Nice to hear such comparisons are helpful.-Jon
Thanks, Great review.. Just to ask when running the cinema 50 the assign mode was set to preamplifier mode means should stop the use of the internal amplifier ? Is that “new” feature of any benefit when using external amplification ? The Emotiva seems a good choice when living in the US having great deal & support whereas this may not be the case for other countries, especially in Europe.
I believe that assign mode was enhanced with the Cinema 50 to permit individual disconnection of the internal amps without having to turn them all off.
I need to compare the results - connected vs disconnected amp assigned mode.
Finally exactly what I was looking for!
I just replied to you on the other video too, we will setup something once I get XMC2.
>> If you can mention more about these pre-pro internal chips or DACs etc v/s AVR, that will really add more technical value to these videos
>> Also may be you have to try budget combo's like MC1 pre-pro with BasX amps, and see if AVRs like Cinema50 in preamp mode compares better
>> And does XMC2 3 subs XLR preout are independent, easier to configure dual subs?
I really felt Cinema50 has issues with bass management on multiple sub configuration even though independent, with or without Audessey and also tried configuring my 2 SVS subs phase differently, I couldn't feel the bass, something was wrong. Yamaha with one sub is much better, so i moved on SVS to living room!
'Keep evolving your audio experience' - nice one :)
Glad I am hitting the mark with these. Always more that can be done. No shortage of content ideas - but I like the ones from the audience.
I have videos on every processor and AVR I know of posted - check those out. Each one has a DAC slide which I go over where DAC details are known. I may have to crack the case on the Cinema 50 as I can’t find a Marantz resource that discloses.
Each of the XMC-1 16 channels are discrete including the three subwoofer channels.
I have yet to be impressed by the bass on the Cinema 50 despite the independent control available for both of my subs. I manually calibrated my subs on a vintage processor using REW and the miniDSP with better results.-Jon
Very happy with our Emotiva RMC-1L since the last update. Simply stunning sound, and well built. Ironed out most of the bugs with latest firmware. Looking forward to what the Emotiva Plus models bring, and hoping they will be relatively bug free.
On another note Emotiva support and service is top notch. Being a smaller family business, they really do go above and beyond to help out when needed. Have found them very responsive and excellent in this regard.
I think we are aligned on the Emotiva RMC series models. I feel the same. While the smaller family company is slower to develop enhancements and fixes, their support is better then others. Even without all the features of other models, they seem to have focused in areas that matter most to me. I find myself using my RMC-1 even while I have other products is for review. I return after reviewing the other newer more feature rich models to my Emotiva with no regrets. -Jon
That’s good to hear because I’m considering an emotiva professor based on reviews on the sound quality. I’m waiting for the plus models to see how those turn out. I thought they were already supposed to be released by now.
Fantastic video and clearly see emotiva is a game changer. Solid, powerful and affordable.. also made here in the USA.
Can’t wait to bring in more from Emotiva and others that compete at their level. It’s a continuous learning process - which does it better and why. Which new entries will rise to the top? Lots of fun. -Jon
I just bought the Cinema 50 and use with high end external amps. What are your thoughts on the dynamics coming out of it? Did you find they were softer? I noticed you can run it real loud but it is not fatiguing. The sound does seem well integrated across all speakers. Do you think the Emotiva may end up being fatiguing running at louder levels? I am trying to decide whether to keep it or wait and try the Denon 4800H when it comes out?
Thanks
I find the Cinema 50 to be softer and less dynamic than my RMC-1. Depending on the content, that difference can be noticeable, slightly noticeable and not noticeable.
I haven’t found the RMC-1 to be fatiguing yet. Albeit, I am not driving at reference levels either.
I agree that the speakers are well integrated
Jon
Thanks for your feedback. I watched your newest video about the sound. I agree with you 100 thousand percent. To me the Cinema 50 just sounds closed in. I wanted to like it, but I would be fooling myself. I am using it with a PS Audio BHK 250 and Carey Cinema 5. The pre-amp outputs are just closed in sounding and not open. Sound quality is veiled and leaves you scratching your head. My Denon 3400 sounds way more open. I am returning mine. I am hoping when the Denon 4800H comes out it's much better. We will see. If not I guess I will be going to an Anthem 70. Thank you for your videos. I heard exactly what you stated. This helped to confirm what I was hearing/struggling with.
Just purchased & set up RMC 1-L; no bugs have been experienced as of yet. Have not set up Dirac yet, but sound quality with internal adjustments is providing significant sound upgrade over the old Onkyo AVR - clarity is awesome. No HDMI switching problems.absolutely love the Remote functions BUT cannot believe the remote is not backlight - HUGE inconvenience. Otherwise happy with purchase (shipping was very fast and all arrived in good condition).
Gary - glad you have had the same positive experience as I with the RMC series. We have received a few reports that issues are still occurring. -Jon
@@ripewave perhaps given my inputs are quite limited, 3 HDMI, 1 optical, 1 RCA analog - all is working well. Switching can be slow, but I will give that up for accuracy/stability. Now onto trying the Dirac!
What I have heard, those with issues are not related to high input counts. As for slow switching - I am seeing slow switching with the Marantz Cinema 50 as well. Something I am going to take note off as I test more brands. Who’s the fastest? Are they all slow? -Jon
@@ripewave lol my wife says it’s teaching me patience waiting for the slow switching!
I’m glad you said www so we can find Patreon. Thanks.
Glad you are interested. I will doing more for them going forward.-Jon
This was a great comparison and loved your assessment! I wonder how Emotiva’s separates would compare to their new MR1 A/V receiver amplifier. This has me leaning towards separates since the amp is not dependent on the changes in cinematic processing. I also wonder how Emotiva’s processing compares to the new Sony STR-AZ 7000ES receiver, which has received great reviews around the placement of sound.
I like separates for the same reason. Your investment in amplifiers is preserved if you go separates. You don’t have to go all at once. If you have a receiver you can gradually add external amps and when they are all external consider replacing the receiver with a processor - just one approach.
Coming soon i- I will be bringing in a new Sony to compare with my Emotiva and Marantz. -Jon
@@ripewave It totally makes sense to go the separates route. Like you said, the amp is independent of processing which makes it a better long-term investment. Your comparison between the processing of the Cinema 50 and Emotiva sold me on Emotiva. I do wonder how the Sony ES5000 would compare in the same scenario. That model would be a cheaper option (than the 7000) if you plan to run external amplification. Look forward to the comparison!
Saying that you save money by purchasing separates is not really true when you look at the cost of AVRs compared to processors.
I currently have an onkyo rz50 I'm upgrading either to the emotiva rmc-1 or the maestro x9..im wondering if the dacs in the maestro would b a noticeable difference from the emotiva..guess I hv to try them both out
I like the fact that AudioControl provides balanced input vs the Arcam and JBL equivalent models which don’t.
The DACs in the Maestro I believe to be better on paper. I can’t say if the execution results in a noticeable difference over the RMC-1. AudioControl is often more than double the cost of the RMC-1 so that may be a decision factor as well. -Jon
Great video. I have a Marantz SR8012 and use external amplification for my 7 bed layer speakers. I have my atmos connected to through the Marantz. I've been thinking about separates but not to sure what I want. Emotiva seems to sound great for movies but their possessor doesn't have all the updated features 🤔 considering the Anthem. This video helped a lot. Thanks.
hmm, what do you use for your external amplification?
I use Emotiva XPA amps. -Jon
Hi Jon, thanks for the content. I don't really understand the difference between the RMC-1 and RMC-1L. Do they have the exact same hardware or not? The RMC-1 having expansion slots, that's all?
From what I've read so far, the only difference between the 1 and 1L is that the former is expandable.
Hi all , I recently upgraded from a Onkyo PR-SC5530 to a XMC-2 using 7 crown xli 1500 for bed layer and it sounds absolutely phenomenal. Lots more separation though all channels.
Can I assume you were using the same Crown amplifiers with the Onkyo processor and speakers? If so, your testimony that the XMC-2 offered noticeable improvement is a clear comparison. Thanks for sharing. -Jon
@@ripewave yes all crowns were also on the onkyo
I am in the same boat as you describe. I will be getting the Emotiva processor and buying a 5 or 7 channel amp to power my base and using the multi channel inputs on my current receiver for the ceiling speakers. I'm surprised the Marantz doesn't have multi channel inputs for that price. Also someone could buy a good quality receiver on the used market that has these.
Good suggestion to use an older receiver with multi-channel inputs as a low-cost set of amplifiers for height channels.-Jon
Hi great channel, I have an unusual experience and question, I’m trying to connect two cd players via toslink inputs on Yamaha RXV683 receiver but I have noticed that input 1 sounds very open and resolving vs input 2 is dull and muddy sounding and yes I have changed the cables and cd players but same results optical input 1 is superior to the input 2 do you have any suggestions
That sound very odd. I suspect that the Yamaha RXV683 doesn't have any settings beyond enable/disable - but it may be worth combing the setup menus. For example, my Sony UHD Blu-ray Player has several options for digital output. As does my WiiM devices - those let you set the sampling rate.
If you can't find a setting, I hope it isn't a hardware issue. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks a lot Jon
Excellent and unique content 🎉Can you also compare XLR cables?
If something is easy there are always many tradeoffs. No matter what it is. Interesting video.
I like your philosophical explanation.-Jon
I think the Emotiva BasX Power Amps are good enough to my ears, don't think you need to buy more expensive ones
That seems to be a common opinion. Thanks for sharing. -Jon
I am curious to know the general opinion on what sonic advantages the XPA line holds over the BasX. Haven’t just spent 1.75K on an XPA-5 I’m wondering I should return it for an A3 and save the cash.
@Ryan W Totally depends on your speakers and listening levels. More watts equals better controls of your drivers. Many "Audiophiles" suggest twice the watts your speakers are rated for. I went XPA-3 for my easy to drive Klipsch RF-63 and RF-64 center and then two Basx-6 for the rest of my 9.2.6 system. My twin SVS-16s are self powered. If I just had bookselfs up front I think basx line would be fine. But with towers I'm happy with the XPA line. It gives me 275 watts per channel. I came from a Dennon 4600X. It sounded good but upgrading to 9.2.6 from 7.2.4 I needed a dedicated processor, so I went with a new Emotiva XMC-2. Made a significant jump to me. Hope it makes you feel better about getting the XPA-5.
@@jacobsteele7138 Thanks Jacob, I appreciate you sharing your thoughts! Being a renter with limited space and no in-ceiling options, I'm keeping it simple right now with a basic 5.1. I've heard that dedicated processors can make a big difference and will probably go that route once I can add more channels. I suppose even with less channels a dedicated processor makes a difference, but I should probably save up for a home first. Can only go so loud when sharing a wall with neighbors ;-)
Have both the A-5175 five channel, and A-300 stereo basx amps. Very good sound quality, and both been bullet proof. I imagine the XPA and DR series would be excellent, keen to try them at some stage.
Great topic! I wonder if the difference you are hearing is the classic Marantz "warmth" from the HDAM's adding a little distortion? I don't care for it either. I like my preamp to sound as transparent as possible. Great job!
If the sound was just "warm" I would most likely enjoy it. I found the sound a bit dull, with the bass underwhelming. Transparency is good too. Then you can use EQ/tone controls to your liking, or leave it flat. - Jon
Sorry but how does this help compare the two for multichannel home theater and the atmos sound, for which people really buy these for? This test was only two channel stereo at full range. Are we just extrapolating or am I missing something. Thanks.
The challenge with listening test is that the more channels you have operating simultaneously, the more difficult it is to tell the difference in sound quality. While there can be an noticeable difference between models, they are usually on a small scale. That is why a 2-channel comparison makes it easier to detect the differences. While some reviewers use superlatives to compare models, I find it hard to make strong distinctions. I will say the RMC-1 and Cinema 50 comparison revealed one of the larger differences in sound quality. -Jon
Hello John,
Thank you for all the passion that you put in tour videos !
I've been debating about for several months as to what brand of equipment to buy...
Wel... I'm going with an Emotiva processor, 2 emotiva amplificators ( one fir 3 channels: a second one for 6 channels: 2 surround and 2 Atmos and 2 extra... ) I even planning on getting the emotiva CD player and their airphones...
Any comments or recommendations ?
I'm planning to di the purchase this coming Tuesday, March 30th.
By the way, due to my room constraints, I'm going with All in-ceiling Focal ICA 6 1000 series speakers. I have 2 12inch speedwoofers...
Thank you !
I feel your plan will produce great results. Keeping the front three powered by the same quality (and beat up front) of amps is how I designed my setup and very happy with the results.
My heights are powers by my oldest and lowest powered amplifier and that shows up with room calibration data. Nice you will have all high performance channels.
Please report back on your 100% in ceiling arrangement. Are you saying your front three are in ceiling as well? I suppose you will angle those towards the listener. -Jon
Thank you for your reply !
Yes, the 3 fronts will be directed to the listening area.
Forgot to mention that I was thinking about including an equalizer for the 3 fronts...
A Schiit brand and for about $ 200.00... My reasoning behind it that I've been told that with the Emotiva amplifiers the sound is "normal ", but the Focal speakers have the Beryllium tweeter, that makes the hights too strong... I want a warm sound without been tired of been listening... What do you think ?
And yes, I'll keep you updated of the progress...
Thanks
Luis
An external equalizer can be convenient for on the fly adjustments. However, you should be able to compensate for the any speaker characteristics within the processor. -Jon
@Ripewave Audio Thank you John !
I really appreciate it !
Insightful review Thanks! Sounds like the Marantz cut corners on the DAC implementation. The Emotiva typically are one the best sounding processors for the money its too bad the other aspects are sub-par in many cases.ex bug in the processor firmware, hdmi, clicks, slow.
Brian - Hoping that Emotiva has overcome the issues of the past. The latest 3.1 firmware is working well for many. They will likely need a long run of successes to erode the negative history. My goal is to report what I experience to de-risk for this audience. -Jon
@@ripewave Yeah totally agree, I really appreciate these comparisons to reduce purchase risk. I was surprised the Marantz was noticeably less HiFi. Also agree on "long run of successes" is needed for Emotiva, glad to hear that 3.1 is proving that out.
Nice work, thanks for thinking of the budget consumer! For the first time buyer you could go with a nice avr just to get your feet wet, and then wait and upgrade to separates when big tech milestones occur, maybe 5-7 years later, when new formats come out. Spend serveral years researching separates and gaining knowledge about your current new system and then when the new tech formats are established you will feel confident building a separates system. Or if 5-10k is within your budget buy what you want and have fun. Off topic - I increase the youtube playback speed to 1.25 if I'm in a hurry.
First - like your idea about 1.25x playback speed. I may try that myself.
Certainly the AVR is a nice bundled solution for these systems that can be 5, 7, 9, 11 or more channels. There are many that can't justify more than $1k-$2k for home theater regardless of their income - other priorities interfere.
If you are willing to budget $5k+ for a system (+ speakers) then you two approached.
1) Start with an AVR and add amplifiers.
2) Start with a low-cost processor and get nice amplifiers from the start (not to be replaced)
I took path two. Then after 20 years, got the processor. - Jon
I have the Cinema 50 running a 5.1 channel system using Polk reserve speakers, I test the 50 using only the internal amps vs adding a Parasound 2125 v2 amp (150x2) for the left and right speakers. With two channel music I thought there there was a clear difference with richer/better sound with from the 50 using the two channel amp. So I concur with your finding form my perspective. Do you think I would notice much of a difference by using an amp on the center channel? I'm really satisfied with the Marantz, I originally bought the Denon X3800H but I really didn't like it.
I bet those Parasound amps drive your Polk Reserve speakers well. I would run an internal vs external test for the center speaker - thanks for the suggestion- Jon
@@ripewave The 2125 v2 is a great amp I highly recommend it.
Nice. With my prior comment I meant to be more clear. I will be testing the impact of an external amplifier for the center channel.
Hello,im from Portugal, next month comes out Cinema 30,you should try it.i have the Marantz AV 10 processor and power amp at Ultimate Audio,working with Perlisten S serie speakers and subs and they are absolutely amazing.Thank You for your channel and insight.
Jon, I both loved this review and I really love your temperament and logic. Thank you!!! Last week I ordered a Cinema 50 for $1200 off retail in Canada, $2500 instead of $3300+tax......... but yes I may regret? Listen carefully folks!!........The HUGE deficit in the AVR market is just Jons point...........In order to get great 2 channel sound quality for music only listening...... in an AVR........it costs a fortune. There are Arcams, Rotels or as mentioned separates...... and yes even the Marantz SR8015 that have upgraded to a much better Toroidal amplification and 2 channel sound quality, but ALL these units are much larger wattage and much more expensive, and much larger in size and heat than any apartment needs!!!. I believe for MILLIONS OF US........who LOVE and listen to music 90% of the time......... but want Home Theatre movie setups for 10% yet live in smaller rooms/apartments.......that we.have been left sucking wind!!! I want the very best 2 channel MUSIC sound quality first for my Klipsch Heresy iv's!!! Then any decent 5 or 7 channel surround when I watch the odd movie....but here's the kicker.......... IN ONE UNIT!!!!!! Why do all the AVR producers force you to buy more than you need in an AVR and more than say 110watts........thinking you have this 1500 square foot Movie Room in a House............in order to just get a half decent 2 channel music experience. Jon if you can tell me this or a solution........I will be your friend forever!!! (So to sum up, I may keep the Cinema 50, and upgrade the 2 channel front one day to a Rotel integrated or even Marantz 40N..... when I can afford the add-on.) Movies are not my priority, just a requirement!!!!!!! I need the musical love!!! Am I the only one Folks?
Michael - you strike an important message. This is sometime I am also baffled by. There needs to be an audiophile grade for each speaker configuration 3.1, 5,1, 7.1 as well as the immersive counts 5.1.2, 7.1.4, 9.1.6 etc. However it seems the high end products only have the high channel count. Why? They also reserve the better amplifiers for the high channel count models as well. Again why? Surely there are enthusiasts with smaller rooms or those that don’t want to pay for more channels. I believe this is a gap. Over the past five years I have seen the premium 5.1 processors drop out of production. It is unfortunate. -Jon
@@ripewave Exactly my point, and part of what I got from your article. In my case not an older Sony, but a 1991 Yammy RXV-850 when a 5.1 still had impressive 2 channel audio Stats and real-life enjoyment. I shall follow-up in a couple weeks when I get the Cinema 50. Thanks for the heads up on the Emotiva Pre !!!
Keep up the great work.
Just invest in a rotel dac/preamp with theater pass through mode for when you want to use your receiver, and when you want to do simple 2 channel music you'll change the source on your rotel to music and get to use its dac/preamp directly into your power amp. I do this with a Mcintosh C53 and MC462. Just requires a dac/preamp with theater passthrough. Basicall in passthrough mode it skips the dac/preamp component and allows your receiver to directly send signals to the power amp for the Left and Right speakers.
My biggest complaint doing this is that you lose the room correction when using your dac/preamp unit directly to play your 2 channel source. So you almost need to get a men220 or something.
No you are not the only one. I bought the cinema 50..... Found it's depth was a bit lacking so then bought the emotiva basx A3 power amplifier to power the front stage speakers (LCR), leaving the front heights and surround L/R powered by the cinema 50. Wow what a difference to the sound. More clarity, depth, separation and bass. Cinema 50 now sounds exceptional when used in stereo set up for music or surround sound mode for movies!!
Can you be more specific with the Marantz cinema 50 was in 2ch bypass or stereo as there’s a noticeable difference in sound because it’s sending a full range frequencies to the two main speakers.
I placed the Marantz in Pure Direct mode. That is a stereo mode with the least amount of colorization. Subs were disabled with front speakers in full-range mode set as large.
Jon
Options are important. I kind of went in a different direction to call it one, and done. I needed 4K UHD switching. I wanted what I enjoyed with my ancient Anthem AVM-30. By the way I had a Sony TAE 9000ES. Before anybody bags on that. It was the advanced Processor Preamplifier money could buy. The build was excellent. It sounded fine. In some applications I would still use it. I landed on a used Anthem MRX-520. Don't need Atmos. It will stay maximum 7.1. Currently 5.1. And I am happy. Has the ARC room correction with the original USB microphone and ARC software on my notebook. Ran great. I love the nice microphone stand that came with. You do have to have the microphone profile to run the ARC room correction. Easy to get. Amplification. Front stage. Parasound HCA-1500a, and Classic 2125 running my towers bi-amped. Emotiva BAS-X A2 x 2 , running my Surrounds, and Center channel. This is my bedroom HT. Worked out great. Speakers are a work in progress, but overall happy with the result. I can't swing Preamplifier Processor money. Not happening. I even got most of my gear used, and saved more. I have other hobbies too. Videography, photography, and my soon to be latest venture, playing guitar. Looking at some possibilities, but value, and honest expectations still rule here. I am leaning on a particular Les Paul right now, but since my first guitar in 20 years, I am taking my time figuring what I want. I want to make music as my as I listen to it, and enjoy movies. My favorite source by the way are my TEAC A-7300, and X7 reel to reels. Just dig their sound.
What a great overview of your system, your history, other hobbies and approach. I think I share some of your opinions. I too have the Sony TA-E9000ES and it still can outperform new equipment. I was content with a 5.1 system up through last year when I made the leap to immersive 7.2.4 configuration - I am enjoying it. Given a choice between 7.1 and 7.1.4 , I select the immersive version every time. However, that is not to say that I won't listen to 7.1 or even 5.1 - I still enjoy as it is not that much of a step down. Nice amplifiers etc. you have. I bet it is very clean reproduction with power to spare. I still look for deals, will purchase used or on close out sales. This stuff adds up and I try to save where I can. Albeit, this channel makes it easier for me to acquire then before as I am getting some monthly royalties.
I have a Yamaha P-150 keyboard and Roland Super JV-1080 sound module to play with. Your pro audio gear is more serious. I don't have a real-to-real - that would be nice. Keep it up!
Jon
Very interesting video!
One question though: on your listening tests of the Marantz, did you do them only with Audyssey engaged?
If so, did you try any adjustments through the MultEQ app? By default, Audyssey adds a "midrange compensation" dip that can really take the sparkle out of a speaker; the app allows you to turn that off. Might be worth a try!
I did the tests with and without Audyssey engaged. What I haven’t tried is adjusting through the MultiEQ app which I have.-Jon
@@ripewave if you do try some adjustments, let us know how they then compare!
Feel the same way. I have Emotiva RMC-1L it sounded way better than my previous Denon x3300w receiver. I’m using Parasound A51 and NAD M28. I feel I have an option to switch between class D and class a/b running my bed layer speakers. Personally I cannot differentiate between class D and class A/B.
The difference in sound between D and A/B can only be appreciated if your speakers are capable of doing so. Need high quality internal components and sensitive drivers. But yes, there is a difference to be had.
I’m using Arendal 1723 speakers
I am still using a Marantz 8802A with an XPA5 Gen2 for Surround Channels and a XPA3 Gen3 for main channels. I am more than happy with the combination. But after experiencing what a minidsp did to my bass performace I will change to an AV10 with Dirac soon.
I believe that the MiniDSP is one of the best enhancements available. It brought new life to my 20 year-old processor by calibration of my two subwoofers. - Jon
What do you thinks the Marantz 50 or 40 will perform after get the Dirac update and will be a great video comparing with the Emotiva with Dirac
That is the big question. With a large group of brands now supporting Dirac, the room calibration software should no longer be the differentiating factor. It will come down to the quality of circuits. I have already concluded by running in direct modes without calibration that Emotiva has a better design than the Marantz Cinema 50. I would be surprised that running each through the same Dirac calibration process will change the outcome - both should be better, but the order shouldn't change. However, I will run that test when Dirac is released around March/April for Marantz.
The performance and quality of the Cinema 40 and AV10 wouldn't be known until available (albeit, I think a few outlets are selling - I will need to investigate). I would love to test the AV10 first hand.
Jon
Hey Jon would be interesting to see a video now that Marantz release Dirac to Cinema 40 to compare the audio with emotiva mc1
This morning the update for my Marantz Cinema 50 was not available but by the end of the day it was. I turned off auto update intentionally so I could record the process. The update of the firmware is now complete and now I can move forward with the DIRAC license purchase. At the same time I am recalibrating the Emotiva RMC-1 to account for my new amps - the same external amps will be used for the Marantz calibration. Stay tuned…
You’re the best reviewer
Too kind - thanks. Jon
I had a Marantz 7705 that unfortunately recently the HDMI board died on it. So I needed a replacement. I've blown my AV budget for the year after buying two SVS PB4000s and a 77"LGc2. So I had a choice get the 7706 as a replacement or the Cinema 50 as a stop gap. I didn't want to spend over 3k for a processor that came out in 2020 and I was able to get the Cinema 50 for 2400 shipped. So that's what I decided on. I initially ran the system using the internal amps for my atmos speakers and two of external amps to power the base layers. It did not sound as good as my old 7705. The lack of balanced inputs effected my PB4000s had to give then more sensitivity at the sub to get them where I wanted. I decided to switch the Cinema 50 to preamp mode only and add my 3rd Amp back in to power the atmos channels. There was a noticeable improvement in sound. Still not at the level of the 7705s though. I've been tweaking the sound with the audyssey app and I have it close to the 7705s performance in the highs and the lows, but the mid end just seems still lacking, not bad but just not right. I'm going to do some more tweaking but I think I'm close to as good as I'm going to get it. So the plan is maybe mid to late 2024, move the Cinema 50 into the bedroom and setting up a basic 5.1 system in there so I don't have to be in the theater room to get a home theater experience. Then I'll go all in the a 7-10k preamp processor for the theater
Room.
I'd love to see you do this test with a Denon AVR - x3800h and the Cinema 50. I've heard that Marantz has a more warm softer sound, I'm wondering if that's what your hearing between the RMC-1 and the Cinema 50.
William - on paper they seem to be the same. But that feedback I receive from this audience and other reviewers is that there is an audible difference. Seems that I need to experience for myself. Thanks for the suggestion. -Jon
@@ripewave that's why I'd like you to do the same test between the two, what I've heard about Marantz signature sound is that it's more layed back and warm where Denon is more dynamic and in your face. That's why they say Marantz is more "musical".
I would like to time with the release of DIRAC support around March.-Jon
Thanks
Thanks for the donation. Your appreciation for this content is appreciated. -Jon
Would like to hear a head to head of all the new 150 watt recivers like SONY,EMOTIVA, INTEGRA, DENON AND YAMAHA... in 2-channel pure direct mode for audiophile purposes....... !
I hope to do as many head-to-head comparisons as possible. That is the best way to know which is better. -Jon
Thinking about getting the Cinema 50 to slowly build a new surround setup, currently coming from a 2.1 stereo system with an IOTA VX stack and a pair of KLH model 5s speakers, sort of scared that it could be a downgrade musically? Currently connecting all my sources(XSX, Apple TV 4K) directly to my TV and just using my TV optical out to connect to the IOTAs, my playback is a mixed of music and movies, so not a dedicated "listening room" for sure. I love the idea of built-in streaming on this receiver and of course all of the HDMI 2.1 features. When buying this receiver, I would still run the system in 2.1 until I get more $$ to add more speakers! Or maybe throw as surround speakers a pair of Klipsh RP-41M that I have in a different room. What are your thoughts?
I think I would need to sell the IOTAs to gather money for the Marantz, I wasnt even considering keeping them as dedicated front amps but now you got me thinking...
Hard for me to know how the Cinema 50 sounds compared to the IOTAVX without direct listening tests. The Cinema 50 does more regarding streaming service support, calibration (both Audyssey and soon Dirac). While you are stepping down on channel count, it seems you may be fine with the 7.4.4 limit of the Marantz.
How are you powering your KLH speakers today with the IOTA VX? With the Marantz you are paying for amplifiers which may not be used. However, it would provide a nice starter kit as you expand in speaker count (e.g. Klipsch from other room) - you won't need to purchase amplifiers at the same time. -Jon
@@ripewave thanks for the reply John! Currently the SA-3 and PA-3 are setup as mono blocks, so left and right KLHs get their own amplifier, i think that renders to about 100W per channel at 8 ohms and 180W at 4ohms.
I must say I don’t have a huge “volume” need, I don’t play music or movies too loud, I am more concern about the sound quality(center imaging, soundstage, clarity, bass output) although, as I mentioned I do have a separate sub(SB-3000).
I might have a chance to test the cinema 50 and compare them, I guess that would be the best way to make a decision!
I agree that direct listening test are the best way to know. I am with you and often listen at modest levels. I could here the difference between the Cinema 50 and the RMC-1 at low volumes. -Jon
What do I think? I think you are getting close to talking me into getting the Emotiva processor.
Have you made any decisions? I am catching up on responses so sorry for the late reply -Jon
@@ripewave I ended up getting the Marantz AV10. I don't have it hooked up yet but hope to before I have to leave town again this Sunday.
i started with a yamaha receiver . i upgraded to yamaha separates . now this week im upgrading my advantage yamaha pre for the new arcam 41 pre. already own ps audio bhk hifi gear.so no upgrading required there as of yet.
Thanks for sharing how you have and are evolving your system. I bet those PSAudio BHK amps sound nice. At some time I would like to try an Arcam or other Harman derivative. Let me know how the Arcam works out.-Jon
RMC-1L owner her and love it’s sonic capabilities!!
Glad to hear it is going well for you. As your RMC-1L should sound exactly the same as my RMC-1, I am not surprised.-Jon
Emotiva have a 11ch AV Receiver coming out MR1 with powerful amps in it, hopefully be HDMI 2.1 with Dirac
Sounds like it will be under $2000
Justin - I am looking forward to that. It was previewed at their Texas show in July. Since then I haven't heard any updates - have you? - Jon
Thanks a lot for this video. It stopped me from buying the Marantz Cinema 50 to replace my Emotiva XMC-1. Which is a real PITA in my setup as I want to replace it because it needs to be switch off completely in order to prevent a 45 Watt power usage in stand-by mode. The drawback then is the very long power up times which in turn conflicts with my Harmony Elite remote. All in all this makes a non user friendly setup to quickly listen to music. The reason why my wife doesn't use it... So I was hoping with the Marantz, in combination with the existing external mono blocks (Hypex NCore 400) to have more user friendly setup with still good sound quality (in combination with DIRAC). But after your experience will not do it although after a year the Marantz is very cheap (1320 euro's in the Netherlands coming down from 2000 euro's and that is including TAX!).
What I need to do for you is time the startup of the Emotiva vs. Marantz Cinema 50 from cold start and standby mode. I am finding that several brands take a long time to start 36 seconds for Arcam - even from standby. Emotiva RMC-1 was measured at 86 seconds from cold boot or 11 seconds from standby - which is the same as Monoprice HTP-1. Sony has a 1second standby start but a 90 second cold boot start. Nothing I believe beats the Integra, Pioneer and Onkyo models which are all under 5 seconds from cold boot and 2 seconds from standby. -Jon
@@ripewaveThanks a lot for the info. And yes I'm interested in cold start and stand-by boot times (low power mode) of the Marantz Cinema 50. When I'm not using the receiver I want it to have as little power consumption as possible but still has some decent boot time.
Do you try it in pure direct mode or only in Stereo?
Frank - I tried mostly in pure direct mode for the Cinema 50 and Direct mode for the RMC-1. I also tried stereo mode on each. I never mis-matched modes when comparing. With each like-like mode comparison I preferred the Emotiva sound. -Jon
I am still looking for an AV receiver upgrade like the cinema 40 or something better or separates in or a bit above that price for my magnat 1109 fronts when listening stereo music and in addition using 2 surrounds when watching movies. Magnat has low impedance and can use a, warmer amp then my yamaha right now.
Would you consider using external amps to power the Magnat 1109s? That way you could match the needs of your speakers better then choose the AV Processor based on its feature set independent of the amplifiers. It could be an AV Receiver using pre-outs as well. -Jon
@@ripewave well I have looked into a separate 4 Channel amp with a good alternative for all that marantz offers for the processor/preamp. But its getting so expensive (netherlands). I can buy the cinema 40 is for ~2150 euro. Sr8015 for 2600. However something like the emotiva xpa4 cost 2250 alone. Then a better processor or same like marantz does add up🤣. The silver cinema 40 is a beauty, emotiva an ugly Black box imho. And 1 device would be better for me then 2 or more. However with a avr in that price range, I would not buy something New for the upcoming years.
I do like silver and I am will you - cost is a concern. The Cinema 40 is a good balance of performance, cost and features. -Jon
@@ripewave Thank you Jon, I did order the C40 a couple of days ago, I hope it will be up to the task 😀
i can't help but wonder if something like the new RMC=1 would sound similar to the emotiva stuff you had here. I understand there are differences, but the cost diffference is rather notable ... it's a shame they did not include dirac with it, and have separate sub EQs.
Dirac sells their basic version for $259, full range version for $350, bass.control for $650.
So to deliver Dirac with an 11 channel receiver the price would likely go from $1,999 to $2,499 - same price as Cinema 50 without Dirac - still interested? -Jon
@@ripewave not sure to be honest. Apparently the emotiva firmware update pace is non existent - and there is a big mystery of how much $$$ a 2.1 HDMI upgrade would cost in future for it.
Yes - my recommendation is to purchase based on features available now - not future promised. Emotiva has been getting better. However, I would hold off if HDMI 2.1 is your goal. While many brands state that the best path for gaming frame rates is direct to the TV and eARC for audio back to the AV Processor/Receiver, I prefer going through the audio for two reasons-
1) more inputs. Most TVs are limited to 4 inputs, the RMC-1 has 8.
2) OSD - if you send video direct to the TV you won’t see the OSD from your processor/receiver
Jon
@@ripewave agreed - I'm not a power user I don't need tons of inputs. I want kick ass sound quality, decent futureprooding (so I guess as many supported features as I can get), and reliability... If it is not reliable, I want the company to make it such via firmware. I've got 7.1 now. Would like to top out at.. 7.2.4 I think? or 7.2.2 maybe
I believe that given enough space and funds, 7.2.4 is a very good place to land. It is where you get to enjoy immersive audio as intended. While additional channels can improve that experience, it is less noticeable in normal large rooms. If you have an exceptionally large room , than it helps to fill in.
My feelings are that i would like some measurements, it's nice to listen to some opinions about but only measurements can tell how good electronics are, then we can compare tastes, experiences.. etc.
I agree measurement data would help balance the subjective listening tests. It may be the harder of the two to do correctly. Getting the test procedure right is key - otherwise you end up with a false report. I have run test before which proved meaningless- so I had to rethink the test and do over. Right now I have basic tools such as REW and calibrated microphones. To jump to the next level would be a high investment. My warning is to always balance test results with the actual listening experience. If you are get test results which prove some product are better but it doesn’t translate to what you enjoy more then something is wrong. I am working towards more testing going forward. -Jon
I’ve been struggling with this for months. I think Monoprice might be the best combination of sound and features but you can’t get one. I like my Emotiva monoblocks but I’d like something a little more visually appealing and refined user interface for my living room processor/receiver and 8k for future proofing. It seems that there is just not a clear solution for my needs. I may very well just go with the BasX MC1 and wait for new units to appear before spending more.
These decisions are tough. I feel there isn't a perfect model out there. My goal is to present what each has so this audience can make informed decisions. -Jon
@@ripewave I did go ahead and order the Monolith HTP-1 since they are back in stock. One of the deciding factors was that I heard an interview from months ago on the Youthman channel where the owner was saying it did support DTSX Pro and it only needed a UI update to let the user see when it is decoding DTSX Pro. We will see. I really hate giving up that headphones jack but otherwise I think it is my best option right now. I’m keeping open the possibility of sending back if the sound quality is not what I expect.
What is a "balanced connection "?
A balanced connection uses positive, negative and ground wires to cancel out noise introduced between connections. One wire carries the signal normal phase while the other is reversed, when combined on the other end the noise is filtered out, leaving only the original source analog single. -Jon
The Marantz isn’t a $2500 receiver. It’s a $1700 receiver with an $800 Marantz logo on it.
The Denon x3800H is the exact same receiver with the same exact internals. Use that saved money for a decent amp or 3. And with Dirac coming, it’s going to sound even better.
are you sure you are not hearing the difference between rca (2V) vs xlr (4V)?
That could be influencing the end result. Ultimately, it is the end result our ears perceive. The Marantz only outputs unbalanced RCA and the Emotiva only outputs balanced XLR - so normalizing to a common output type is not possible. I am level matching with a SPL meter, to avoid one being louder then the other. I have same cables on each.
I was running some REW measurements today and noticed that the Marantz has lower output on the low end. Overriding Audyssey' s Front setting of "Large" speakers to revert back to my original "small" designation helps as that re-enables subwoofer signals. But it is still not enough to overcome the clarity and openness of the Emotiva results - or even match the bass performance.
I will now play with the app to see if I can tune that output of the Cinema 50 a bit more.
Back to the balanced outputs - if that design element results in better sound, it results in better sound. While I set sound modes etc. as equal as I can, everything in the signal path contributes to the experience - either helps or hurts, the power supply, the DACs, etc..
Let me know if I can do more to have a better comparison test. I would rather improve the Marantz output then degrade Emotiva's capabilities to match or better.
Jon
You can start with the Marantz or similar, then when you invest in a processor later use the Marantz for the height speakers power amp 😁
Thanks for that clever plan. That is what I doing currently. Having found the Emotiva RMC-1 better sounding then the Cinema 50, I am running a hybrid approach. Feeding the same HDMI signal to both the processes and receiver I can have them both decode the signal. That compensates for the lack multi-channel inputs. It is not ideal as you have to manage two separate volume levels, but it gets the levels. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks for the info! Interesting, I'm wired differently using the pre-outs of the processor to the 7.1 input of my old marantz reciever. Then I have a separate volume 'trim' for the heights, being the volume knob on the old reciever. All other preamp is bypassed.
If I understand your method, you are having the Marantz process as well as amplify certain channels? Did you have to address any timing issues, etc? I used my pre-outs to avoid this
Got it - that is good too. Having a trim control is nice. I have to get some theater time in to work with the timings. Traveling this week so early January.
I'm starting off completely fresh. With the exception that i have 2 SVS Ultra Towers and an SVS Subwoofer. I had an AVR Pioneer which had a really sluggish menu and my Marantz just gave up on me just a couple of months ago. (Was always going into protective mode.) That being said, i'm not a technician. And in 2018, i needed to move from my home where i lived for the better part of my life with my mom. But my mom passed away, so i'm renting an appartement right now and the room is completely different (higher ceilings.) The sound was pretty bad with the Marantz. (Though it was a pretty cheap AVR = around $800.) I've heard that the SVS Ultra towers should be pretty easy to drive? But i always found it pretty hard to be honest. Or at least, i didn't always get the sound out of it that i wanted. (I'm a movie watcher as well as a music lover.) That being said, i don't have the SVS Ultra center speaker. Which is one i will definitely get.
Do you have any recommendations?
I think getting a center speaker will be your best upgrade. Your towers and subwoofer will fill in the rest. I would give that a try for a year or so before thinking about something more. At that time, an AV Receiver upgrade may be the next good move if you are not a technician. Those who are good with manual room calibration tools are able to squeeze out more performance with a lower-end receiver. For others, it is easier to have a model which sounds better right out of the box. -Jon
@@ripewave Alright, thanks for your answer man! Much appreciated!
Try to compare the Emotiva to the Marantz with dynamic volume set to light and dynamic EQ enabled. Ready Player One race scene is always a good test. These are pretty much staple features of the Marantz otherwise the Marantz usually ends up sounding more flat.
Thanks for the suggestion. I have dynamic EQ enabled but not dynamic volume. I will give dynamic volume a try. I will also try more movie content. I am judging mostly from music. Note that as I mentioned in the video, tue Marantz didn’t sound bad, just that the Emotiva sounded that much better.-Jon
@@ripewave I find dynamic volume sounds best for movies. It lifts the lower details a little when not listening at reference level. For music I usually disable dynamic volume and dynamic EQ because I like the curve of my speakers in my room. Usually use pure direct as well.
Perfect - love getting this type of guidance. I will take those to the listening room.
@@ripewave It seems dynamic volume takes a moment to adjust so I would recommend enabling it, start the movie, then adjust the volume level to preferred level. Switching it on and off on the fly to compare with and without doesn’t work very well due the overall volume changes, etc.
Very good guidance - I will follow. As described on the setup screen I didn’t feel that it was a feature I would be interested in. However, I can’t ignore positive feedback from you regarding its usefulness. -Jon
Is There Any 🤔 Information Or Possibility Of 🤔 A Denon Avr6800H ???? Or Will There Be 1 Coming Out In 2023????
I haven’t hear anything announced to fill the AVR6800h slot. Seem the public is asking.-Jon
Nice head to head =)
Glad these comparisons are helpful. -Jon
@Ripewave Audio ...Yes. Definitely. These outline all the necessary data and features in a very easy to understand and allows for quick decision making. .. Thank you.
Glad the presentation format has the right level of detail and clarity -Jon
Stereo speakers have changed over twenty years
Yes they have. -Jon
Do you have a recent Denon (like the 3800H?) If so, does it sound different / better or worse perhaps? I saw a reviewer a few months ago that said that due to his measurements, Marantz achieves its sound profile due to intentional sound “distortion”. I recall in the video he raised the issue directly with Marantz engineers, and they admitted it - wondering why he considered that a concern.
I don’t have a recent Denon. I suspect they are similar to the equivalent Marantz models. My understanding is they will sound a little different. I haven’t heard the comment of how Marantz achieves their sound profile. Regardless I feel they could do better given their size and experience.-Jon
@@ripewave you mean marantz 59 still better than Denon 3800 sound wise?
I mean marantz cinema 50
Hard for me to judge without hearing Denon firsthand. Certainly they position Marantz as better.
@@ripewave . . . and that is my point. This engineer with his own professional testing equipment says it is a load of crock! Denon is actually “properly accurate” and it is Marantz that is WORSE! . . . and why I think you should connect with him given what you are talking about. Again connect with StopTheFomo.
What's Your Speakers 🔊 Advice 💡 To Have Far As 🤔 HOME THEATER 🎥 🤔 SET UP?????
I think speaker selection starts with your budget and your room’s physical layout.
I just happen to stay with Polk due to a long history with using the brand. I have been building the system over decades and even between generations they are timbre matched enough to bland well.
Was going 4 RMC-1 but can't deal with 1 sub. For only $200 Anthem AVM 70 8K I get a full 9.2.6 & can mix with XLR & RCA.
While the RMC-1 can support up to 3 independent subwoofers, you are correct that with full surrounds, front wides and three rows for height channels, you are back down to 1 subwoofer output.
Emotiva really needs to release the output modules they had planned. I suspect, they will only release for the upcoming RMC-1 Plus which replaces 80% of the internal boards - targeted for Summer 2023. My guess is the current RMC-1 is too constrained on the processing side to add the number of channels originally planned. Current owners will be able to swap out for $800 (if you paid the original $5000 price), or $1,400
(if you purchased more recently).
Not sure if I am missing something regarding RMC-1's balanced outputs. I believe I am doing just fine with an XLR to RCA cable to my vintage amplifier with no apparent issue using $11.99 x 2 cables from Amazon - . www.amazon.com/belipro-XLR-RCA/dp/B09NCJ4JQN?th=1. You are not the first to be concerned about "no RCA" on the RMC-1, so I wonder if I have something to learn here.
I was more concerned about he lack of balanced inputs and DSD support on the Anthem for my own needs. Otherwise, I feel that the AVM 70 8K is a great value. I hope to add it for comparison.
Jon
I wonder how the Emotiva MR1 would compare.
Me too - I have reach out to Emotiva to see if they could send me a sample.
I had the RMC-1 that replaced an 8801. The RMC-1 sounded much better even before I ran Dirac. I loved the sound of the RMC-1. However I could not deal with the bugs. They were so bad, I considered it defective. Completely unpredictable. I would spend many minutes unplugging it, switching inputs etc to get sound. Then when I get sound I couldn't get it in the right decoding format. Then it would stop responding. Even the front power switch wouldn't work. Unplug it again. All the sudden it worked. Switched songs, it would stop working again.. Returned it and am waiting for a refund. Anthem is on the way. I hope it goes better.
That is very unfortunate. I hope I don’t encounter the same. So far I have been spared. I would also rerun if presented with those issues. Currently I am have more trouble with the Marantz Cinema 50 - has a 60hz hum when I plug in the cable box - even with volume at full mute. Also the power cable was touchy. It power cycles with the slightest touch. I swapped out with a different power cord and that issue what away. -Jon
This why I went with mainstream Marantz Cinema 40. A totally proven AVR series. I had purchased a Anthem MRX1140 8k thinking I had made a wise choice veering off the beaten path. I really, really, really wanted to love the Anthem and its Dirac but damn it was soooooo buggy with almost everything, I had to return it.
Meanwhile getting my brand new 40 up and running flawlessly took maybe an hour or three to get running perfectly.
Here in Australia the difference is about $3700 vs $7000 for the xmc-2 + 11 channel xpa 11 gen 3.
Which really seems like a huge price difference and unaffordable for those in the cimena 50 price range.
Disappointing, that it is that much different, even when using the same power amps.
Really don't understand why power amps are so expensive. Same tech for a long time.
AV Receivers are not good for 2ch music as sound is going through Digital Processing, it's always best to use separate stereo amp for more enjoyable music playback
Justin - You make a valid point. In my case I was comparing both units with the digital processing turned on as well as their best foot forward "Direct" modes. I suspect I can do better with a high-quality pre-amp or integrated amp. However, with just these two in play, the Emotiva was the clear winner. -Jon
Emotiva's are releasing new products in 2023. When you have hands on them please make video.
Emotiva has been very busy developing and releasing new products and that continues into 2023z
I will see what I can do to acquire some samples for review.
Jon
Processor I have a anthem Processor and amp a big difference over my Yamaha receiver
Anthem is in that tier with Emotiva that delivers a sound quality over that of Marantz, Denon and Yamaha.
Can’t recall his name, but he lives in California, a sound engineer with his own youtube channel and “Stopthefomo vlogger” relies on him for his engineering sound advice, if the helps?
Was it ANTHONY GRIMANI? I have followed his advice as he presented on Audioholics. He has worked for Lucusfilms THX -Jon
@@ripewave No although I know who you mean. Send a note to stopthefomo. I had the fellows blog on my list (older gent) but he went in a different direction so I deleted it. He seems to know a lot about Denon/marantz through his testing and he would likely be a good guy for you to talk to being of similar interests. The reason why I ask is because I too am considering the cinema 50 vs Denon 3800. My Marantz 5012 is great but sounds “soft” somehow and wondering if a Denon might be better for me now and is $1000 less? I have a 7.1 setup but want the latest enhancements particularly imax enhanced. Overhead Atmos won’t work because of intruding furnace mechanical so I will have to use Dolby virtualization and call it a day. Did a zoom call with SVS consultant a few weeks ago and he confirmed my dedicated professional installation (done 15 years ago) was done well but the mechanical intrusion won’t work for overhead speakers. I could use two at the front but not sure that accomplishes much overall considering the extra cost.
It is unfortunate that your mechanical system prohibits ceiling mount. I suspect that the ceiling is too low where you want to place to hang below the ceiling. Some are mounting standard speakers on brackets or poles to overcome lack of in ceiling clearance. I only have that problem in the center of my room preventing a center row or voice of God channel.
As for mounting front heights I would say that is a better option then the reflective type of Atmos speaker sonically. However, cost to wire through walls is something to balance out in your decision process.
Jon
@@ripewave Yes, in the right hand corner of the room (on a diagonal) there are two one-foot step downs from the 8 ft. ceiling to accommodate the mechanical; then a one step-UP on the second row riser so the ceiling height is only about 5 1/2 ft. in that corner. According to SVS, using its dedicated atmos speaker “even sideways” requires at least two-feet above the seating position for it to provide a height effect. As such, the height speaker ends-up at exactly the same height as the back surround speaker. So while o.k. on the left hand-side as the ceiling is full height, the double drop-down in the right-hand corner makes the whole thing - compromised. Drat!
To bad Emotiva didn't release the new receiver before you bought that Marantz. I like Marantz and have a 7705 processor but if I were going to buy a receiver I am pretty sure it would be the new emotiva.
I bought the Marantz to be able to provide in depth feedback to this channel as I felt it was a model many are interested in. It has served that purpose well. I plan to continue my analysis of that model plus others to come. -Jon
with klipsch speakers.
Really wish the Emotiva would boot faster.
David - I will time a cold start vs the Marantz. However, I normally just put the RMC-1 into standby. When I hit the on button the processor is ready before all the amplifiers are.
Do you always perform a full power down with the switch on the back? Or is using “standby” mode acceptable?-Jon
@@ripewave I still have an old KRP-500M whose HDMI CEC (and DHCP, and probably other items :>) isn't everything it ought to be, so I've got the entire system on an auto-switched power supply (TV off turns the receiver off and vice-versa). Used to be an Onkyo down there, and its CEC -also- didn't work particularly well -- it rocked a 60W "standby", which, umm, I didn't enjoy paying for :> [I need to replace the plasma with something more efficient as well :sigh: ] Sadly I find that as I get older, I have less, not more, patience for this sort of thing.
At any rate, it's a tradeoff. Not a sonic one, which is what this video is about, but one to consider. It's surprising that the Cinema50 is that noticeably lacking. Makes me curious about the 40.
Okay - so standby power is out if you want to enable video on standby. I understand if video on standby is not used it drops from 30W to 1W.
I am also curious about the Cinema 40 - I understand that one is scheduled for Q3 2023 so we continue to wait. -Jon
To me it sounds like Emotiva is using better DACs than Marantz, so the sound quality is better. I realize that might be subjective but I have a feeling I would agree with you. To me, Marantz and Denon receivers and processors sound too dark. I think Yamaha and even Pioneer Elite sound better.
I would the try out a Pioneer and Yamaha some day and compare.-Jon
@@ripewave Pioneer was bought out by someone...not sure if that will affect the quality of their gear.
Same company that owns Klipsch. In fact they have added profiles in the Pioneer/Onkyo/Integra receivers for each of the Klipsch speaker models. Sharp is under contract to build their receivers.-Jon
@@ripewave Sharp manufactures receivers for Pioneer, Onkyo, and Integra? I had no idea... I really liked the DACs in my old Pioneer Elite receivers. I wouldn't be surprised if what they're using now doesn't sound quite as good.
It is possible that the new models are different given all the changes. -Jon
There are no easy choices, there are just trade-offs.
I can't believe these are compared. The Marants is available for about a € 1000 and the Emotiva € 5000, how is that a thing ???
It is to show what you get if you spend a lot more. Not always is the more expensive model the best sounding or the more feature rich. For example, this Marantz has Auro-3D, wireless, a web and mobile app, and HEOS to name a few items not found in the more expensive Emotiva. For those seeking those kind of feature it is comforting that they are better to spend less. But if it is sound quality you are seeking, the Emotiva still has an advantage. I also have videos where I compare similarly priced models. I find both types of comparisons are useful, but not for everyone. -Jon
@@ripewave the Emotiva was released in november 2019. The Marantz september 2022. I get your point, but it's still an odd comparison. Both have different focus, one is way older, one is way more expensive. So it would be more logical to compare less different type of units.
I have an audience the is debating about which path to take - separates or receivers - spend more or less. Others which are already focused on a price range and type, I have more direct comparisons - two different audiences. -Jon
@@ripewave its not an attack on your expertise nor this review. I just find it (very) odd given my points. Keep it going 👍🏾
No problem - it is good that you can share your perspective- don’t hold back. I will either modify my own with the new knowledge or explain my position - often both are valid. -Jon
What's my feeling on this ? You cannot compare a subtop level AVR's processing to a top model Emotiva. Period. If it was an AV8805, it probably would've wiped the floor with said Emoriva. Channel separation in comparing the top Emotiva with the cheaper Emotiva isn't as much as a factor as the internal DAC's used, which have much more of a sonic signature in my experience. And yes, the difference between a Marantz s
SR-601X and a SR-701X is substantial. The setup you are going for, it would have been even fairer to go to an SR8012/SR8015 and use it as a pre/pro for a true apples to Apples comparison, as the SR8015 is known to be the best measuring pre/pro section of any AVR regardless of brand. So yes..I am not surprised by your findings. Even the Cinema40 is basically a beefed up version of the superb sr7015, but an SR8015, it is most definitely not. Regardless of DiRAC.
Perhaps a comparison between the new and prior Marantz models at the same tier would have suited you better. I would like to see that as well.
My goal was to compare the best new and available Marantz model against its opposite but to have the test conducted fair under like conditions. Many enthusiasts are torn between buying the all-in-one, checks all the format boxes and is rock solid Marantz or buying an Emotiva that doesn’t support all the formats, has been known to be buggy but is sold on the sound quality. The scale could tip either way for such buyers and the price point is similar if you don’t factor in the external amplifier cost that Emotiva requires. The entry XMC-2 matches the front stage performance of the flagship for $2,400 - a $100 less than the Marantz Cinema 50. If you already have some amps, the move to separates becomes obtainable if you are willing to forego some features. I can see where you would also want to compare older Marantz models. That is just a different comparison. I am just a curious about how the Emotiva would compare against a Trinnov flagship - why not? I find it healthy to reach across the tier boundaries so there is a better understanding of how they really perform and compare. The marketing often sounds believable, but do not always warrant the higher prices. My position is that all comparisons are good if the test are conducted consistently. Also good for me to hear your perspective. I will have future comparisons that involve more similar products as well as these intentionally different types of solution paired together. -Jon
@@ripewave ok, now it makes a bit more sense, but then why not look at the Marantz AV7706 ? It is around the same price point as the Emotiva, it has less channels of processing than the Emotiva, but Marantz being Marantz, I'd expect it to out-perform the Emotiva. You were looking at price only, but it's a well proven fact that in a direct comparison between an AVR or AVP of similar price, the AVP will win. Just because the Cinema40 is not yet available, doesn't make the Cinema 50 the current top model. So then test the SR7015/SR8015 and see how the XMC-2 fares. Oh and just because something has similar specs on paper, doesn't make it the same. There are a lot of other components in the signal chain that will influence sound quality. So until you actually test the baby Emotiva against the Cinema40, you're not doing a well enough job in reaching your comparison goals, IMHO.
I would have bought the Cinema 40 or AV10 if they were available. Here is some insight - I have been curious about the Emotiva RMC-1 since 2014. Marantz is certainly the mainstream. I simply want to compare my own selection against mainstream in this case. I appreciate your suggestions. As this channel grows I can purchase more models for comparison. But i want to compare. Not just rely on my gut. Would love to keep bringing in new models which displace my current reference. Perhaps the Cinema 40 or AV10. -Jon
Emotiva amps don't handle 4ohm loads the best. Outlaw amps have way better specs than Emotiva (even their monoblocks) for 4ohm speakers, and Outlaw is usually conservative with their spec ratings.
That is good feedback. How did you at that conclusion?
I can say firsthand that that Emotiva XPA-1 amps have no issue driving my 4 ohm ineffient Polk lsi15s. I believe your key word was “best” - not that they couldn’t. I would say they actually do a great job with my setup. However, if the Outlaw amps can do better, I am all for it. As you say Outlaw ratings are conservative- which could be true as they are specified lower than Emotiva. -Jon
@@ripewave Oh, that's a coincidence. You have Polk LSi15s and I have LSi9s. Yeah, if you look at Emotiva's amp specs, they only rate THD within a limited bandwidth and only for one or two channels driven. Outlaw, by contrast, lists THD at all channels driven and for the full 20-20kHz. If I remember correctly, Emotiva amps with a 4ohm load give you 1% distortion (which is starting to become audible), whereas Outlaw only gives you 0.03% THD. It's a pretty big difference. When I say Outlaw lists their specs conservatively, what I mean is the unit probably performs better than the numbers listed. Very few manufacturers do that. Most of them are quite the opposite, listing specs that are taken under extremely ideal conditions - meaning you're not likely to achieve those numbers yourself at home. The only other manufacturers I can think of off the top of my head that are conservative with their specs are (or used to be) Bang & Olufsen and Nakamichi. Yeah, my Yamaha MX-A5000 amplifier went into protection mode about a year ago and I've been looking around for a replacement. To repair it costs almost half as much as what I paid for it new. I'd rather just get a new amp. Ironically, the Outlaw amp has much better specs than my Yamaha, and is much less expensive. I wish Yamaha wasn't getting out of the separates market for home theater gear, but that appears to be the case. How long have you been using BaseX amps to drive your Polks?
Thanks again for your detailed explanation of these amplifiers.
I have been driving the Lsi15s with the XPAs for 5 years now.
Jon
@@ripewave Yeah, I have the bookshelf version of your towers. The thing that's cool about that is I use a third LSi9 for my center channel, so I have exactly the same speaker for all my fronts. Anyway, it's good to hear from someone that's actually used Emotiva to drive 4ohm speakers, especially ones so close to my own. If it sounds good to your ears, that's all that matters. It makes me curious how well a BasX amp would drive a 4ohm load. I'm guessing you could hear the difference between your XPA amp and a BasX amp at high volumes.
I am curious about the difference between the BasX and XPA range as well. My XPAs are full differential, so I am also curious about how the non-differential XPAs compare. -Jon
I regret I got a receiver instead of a processor
Audyssey calibration is bass anemic unless you put a lot of effort in setting a custom target freq curve. It's a 100% common problem, everyone hates it.
You also have to turn on "dynamic eq" or the Marantz will still suck out bass response.
Minimum req is to get the MultEQ phone app. $20, and this will allow your phone to tailor the audyssey room eq from Android or apple devices. This is entirely required for a decent eq. Or you'll not get good bass performance. I used this to get my speakers and sub to +10db from 20hz to +0db and flat after ~110hz. Also it is recommended you don't eq anything above 300-400hz if your speakers have good dispersion on horozontal axis, as the most beneficial eq with no negatives is for the lower frequencies. I set my room eq to not do anything above 300hz.
MultEQ-X, the $200 PC app to tailor the room eq is required to get a competitive calibration to DIRAC. This license only works for the receiver you buy it for unlike the phone app that is $20 which is reusable on all audyssey receivers after the initial purchase.
I have a couple Marantz receivers, revel f328Be fronts, external amp just for the fronts, Mcintosh MC462 and C53. I do a 4.1 surround.
100% correct. Out of the box automated setup audyessy versus dirac..... dirac wins most of the time. Someone who knows what they are doing using calibrated audyessy mic and the MultEQ-X software will easily get a massive improvement over the out of box experience and can match dirac. Dirac doesn't have AutoEQ which adjusts the sound based on volume. Our ears are less sensitive to bass the lower the volume. AutoEQ Boosts the bass for low volume on all audyessy xt32 systems. Dirac requires a separate config for each volume level you want to play at.
The crazy thing about you review is that you're talking about what you're used to how about those who don't have it like you the marantz 50 is 2.500.00 this is not good enough
I agree with you that the Cinema 50 has a well-balanced sound across the room, is fully featured and is a good value at $2,500. In the video I noted that the Marantz didn’t sound bad, but was not as good as the RMC-1.
I will point out that I listened to the Cinema 50 for two weeks prior to ever hearing the RMC-1. I found the sound quality to be good, but lacking in bass and liveliness overall. At the time my main comparison product was a 20+ year old Sony processor it and the RMC-1 are replacing running though the same amplifiers and speakers. I paid $900 for the Sony in 2001. My feeling is that the Cinema 50 could have come closer to the vintage performance.-Jon
I think that at this level it is no longer a test but advertising for Emotiva, I am from France I had an RMC-1 at home (bought 6 months after its release) I was happy when I I was finally able to sell it despite having lost €3,000. Because in France it was very expensive and no return compared to the USA. No Wifi, no DTS pro, no Auro 3D, no channel expansion, no web page for configuration etc., etc., processor NOT upgradable because Emotiva it is deceived in the design, it is missing computing power. This processor is heresy. I know you are going to delete my message but I wanted to tell you. The JBL SDP-55 sounds much better than the Emotiva but mine broke down so I got fed up with all those crap processors and invested in a real upgradable processor the 24 channel Stormaudio MKII it's 100% functional and the updates are mainly for new features and not to repair. thank you for your videos but stop advertising for Emotiva (processor) because it does not deserve it! sorry for my English.
I forgot ? I have 3 Emotiva XPA 7 gen3, UPA5 and UPA 700 amplifiers and I am satisfied with them.
Thanks for your input..I think Emotiva has good amps...but i would be leary on their processors down the road for which you have stated along with quality issues
Thanks for sharing your experience. I am sorry you had such bad experience with your RMC-1. On this channel I encourage an open discussion. I realize that there will be times when viewers have knowledge that compliments what I provide even if opinions and details diverge from what I post. With a discussion we can often arrive at a better understanding.
I agree that it is very important to have a good level of support when purchasing AV Processors and Receivers due to their complexity and high cost.
Obviously, I can receive Emotiva's support in the United States, so I don't have that risk. I purchased both the Emotiva RMC-1 and Marantz Cinema 50 at the same time knowing many of their differences. The Marantz has support for WiFI, Auro 3D, and web.
For this video was to focus on the sonic difference from my own perspective. I do realize that any positive comment I make about a product can help promote that product indirectly. The inverse is also true - negative reports can have a negative impact on sales. I value sound quality very high, so while the Marantz supports Auro 3D, it value is diminished if I am not fully satisfied with the sound quality.
I have been following Emotiva since the early pre-release details were communicated. I have witnessed the several instances where promised features were either delayed by years or not yet delivered.
Delayed but delivered
-Dirac
-Input Expansion Modules - Balanced and Phono Inputs
-eARC
Delayed coming with RMC-1 Plus series (paid unit exchange ~1,400 or ~700 if you paid full original price)
-HDMI 2.1 / 8K Support
-DTS:x Pro
-IMAX Enhanced
-Upgraded Dolby
-Wi-FI/Bluetooth
-Streaming Capabilities
-Tablet Control
Delayed availability unknown
-Output Expansion Modules
So you also had issues with the JBL SDP-55, which was priced about $1,600 more than the Emotiva RMC-1 (Its replacement the SDP-58 is $1,900 more). Glad to here that after moving upstream to the Storm Audio 24 and spending at least $12,000 more, you now have a unit you are happy with. What I gather is that spending more in each case produced better and better results.
Thanks again for sharing.
Jon
U comparing separates to a receiver, and a more expensive processor. You not giving the receiver a fair shot. I wanted a marantz avr 7706 but now I think I’m going to get the 50 and save me 3k.
You can’t compare the cost of an all in one unit VS separate components without including a budget for at least five decent interconnects. That adds ups.
Back to the underperforming Marantz, I own an overly expensive and hyped AV10 and I’m not impressed. I can see why the cheap in comparison model 50 underperforms even compared to an ancient Sony.
Read: once again screwed by manufacturers marketing
and benevolent reviews
You are not alone in stating the challenge of comparing these two products. My aim in purchasing these two different approaches for the central unit was two serve as two different baselines - one for processors and the other as representative of a common all-in-one checks all the feature boxes AVR. While I expected the results, why not compare these if I own both while I’m at it. Moving on…
Sorry that the AV10 underperformed your expectations. While I have yet to hear for myself I have been suspicious that it would underwhelm- especially at $7,000. Many gushing reviews out there which I am not ready to believe but can’t offer counterpoints without firsthand knowledge. Marantz has great marketing for certain.
My Cinema 50 is going in for warranty service already. First - a power cord issue that causes a reboot if you slightly wiggle it - replacing the cord solved but shouldn’t happen. The issue it is going in for is a 60hz hum even with the power disconnected. Whenever I connect the cable TV box via HDMI to the Cinema 50 this happens. Same Cable box and HDMI cable on the RMC-1 - no problem. Very odd.-Jon
You aren’t comparing apples to apples
Please explain how I am not so I can enhance the test.
There are several things I did to come close - using same - same room, same speakers, same external amplifiers, same settings for each test case, same source device, same content, -Jon
I don't understand how any this can count when Emotiva processors are so unreliable. They shouldn't even be released to market. What is the point of a product that craps out on you when you go to use it? At least with Marrantz, Denon and some others the majority of people can actually use them for the most part without issue. They are a finished product not a beta product like Emotiva, Arcam/Lexicon, Anthem etc. These manufacturers will not learn to step up their game until we stop purchasing unfinished products from them at premium prices.
If I focus on your point that Marantz and Denon are more reliable then other brand, I can agree and feel that is very good guidance. Better, but not perfect. They did have a disaster of a launch for their initial HDMI 2.1 models. That was a rush to market without proper tested and control of release. The second generation of HDMI 2.1 products from Denon and Marantz meet my expectations for that feature set and are reliable for video. So they to can release beta product, but they are much more responsive to provide a workaround and eventual new model or board to make things right. The others can stall for years or not at all. My Cinema 50 has a hum issue when used with my Comcast cable box. I need to find time to send it back for Marantz to address. However, I agree for those who what the least amount of hassle those are the brands. Why others are considered is for sound quality many are willing to put up with some issues for the sonic experience. I have been happy with my Emotiva for that reason plus it has other features I care about such as a balance XLR input for my phone pre-amp on the other side of the room and more channels supporting front wides. I have the Marantz to address features Emotiva is missing like Auro-3D and HDMI 2.1 support. I have yet to find the perfect product but keep searching. -Jon
Most people would be very happy with the Marantz 50 !!! I think you are analysing too much , just watch the movies and enjoy what you have. Asking a 7 year old to comment on amplifier quality is not going to help either, you seem all over the place with your thinking here, If you have decent components and good speakers with quality interconnects you are sorted, all the nitpicking just gets silly.
Yes - many are. It is very feature rich, support all but one format (DTS:x pro) and as I stated in the video it sounds good and the sound positioning within a 7.2.4 layout is well balanced. -Jon
Asking his 7 years old was relevant because that little boy preference was purely based on his impression from his sense of hearing. Isn't what you say in other words at the end of your own post? Why would young children not capable of having an opinion on good sound?!
Not an even comparison. You should be testing the Marantz 8805 or 10 series against the RMC-1.
Others share your perspective. My goal is to will bring in the AV10 when it is available to me. I will focus on the new models. While the AV10 and RMC-1 may be a fairer fight - the prices are all over the place. Cinema 50 = $2500, RMC-1 = $3,750 (I paid $3,000 on sale), AV8805A = $5,500 and the AV10 = $7,000. Price considered, the match with the Cinema 50 wasn’t that far off.-Jon