Interesting review but not really apples to apples. It would be nice to see a review of the Cinema 50 vs the Emotiva MR1 or MR1L. Most people looking to spend $2500 are not going to double up their budget to get the Emotiva RMC-1 plus amplification at $5000. They would likely be more interested to see if they could get as good or better performance as the Cinema 50 for less money.
Emotiva as going to send me something in their MR1/MR1L/MC1 series, but never did. I should have just purchased up front and returned. Lesson learned. Perhaps a task for the coming months. I have compared the Cinema 50 with other brands at $2,500 or less (such as the Onkyo TX-RZ50, which sounded better). With that said, I will continue to compare lower cost models against higher cost models as well. That is for those who want to know if they spend more, do they get more. They are cases were the higher priced model doesn't win on sound quality or features. The Cinema 50 beats the Emotiva RMC-1 on feature, but not sound quality. -Jon
@@ripewave Thanks Jon! Appreciate the feedback 🙂 I agree the Onkyo is a great receiver, and a better value than the Cinema 50. I do love the Cinema 50 styling and user interface, but sound performance is king.
Glad there is interest in this approach. It may take a few weeks to tune each enough to feel the configurations are good enough for a fair comparison.-Jon
I am glad that you do what you do because too many influencers on UA-cam and we just can't trust those reviews. No one has AB the marantz like you're doing and as we discovered the marantz had a cheap TI DAC, I expected the results to be what you're discovering. Great work.
I am glad you like the approach I am taking for the channel. I am simply researching before purchasing and testing after I buy as I did prior to having this channel. Instead I doing it for myself, I am sharing with the UA-cam community. It’s a hobby for me, I have a day job for my primary income. A/B tests are the only way I can really judge - especially if the differences are minor. Good information of the DACs. Do you know which TI chips are in the Cinema 50? Jon
@@ripewave can't remember which version of the TI DAC, but ASR did a teardown of the 3800 which has the same DAC without the Hdam. The 3800 did not get great review.
Great video but you didnt use the Sony DAC, You feed it analog after the emotiva decoded it. Feed them all a digital optical signal and re run the tests
The testing is well done. Most AVR have a sound signature I think when you bypass the internal amplification and use the same amps it narrows down the field quickly which all are great.
Hi John, This and the other related videos have helped me already make an upgrade decision for my Great Room Media Center. I am opting to go with the Emotiva RMC-1L processor. when the new model updates are completed per HDMI 2.1. Question per thoughts of amplification. I was going to order some amps from them as well.. Curious if you have any comparisons of the BasX models vs their flag ship XPA Gen 3 modular?
I have yet to test out the BasX models. However, reports I hear are all positive on that range. If you keep them close to the processor, the lack of balanced inputs shouldn't introduce noise. The XPA models will likely provide more gain and higher power reserves for dynamic content. -Jon
Recently went from a Denon 6400 to an RMC 1L. The RMC 1L is head and shoulders better listening to movies. My biggest gripe is the little gremlins in the system. My setup is on my living room. If i had to just use the unit in a dedicated theater room i would live with the issues. I switched to the Anthem AVM 70. It sounds good with movies as well. But I think the RMC 1L sounds better. I went back and forth demoing different movies on both units for a few days. I'm still trying different things to see if and how I can improve the sound on the AVM 70. Deep inside there's still a possibility i send the AVM70 back and get the RMC 1L.
Edward - Keep me posted on our goal to improve the AVM70 configuration/calibration and ideally equal or better the RMC-1L. I hope to test the AVM70 or 90 at some point in 2023. I feel that Emotiva and Anthem are in close competition with each other and would like to better understand the pros and cons beyond what can be determined on paper. -Jon
@@ripewave I think it might come close. But it's not going to be the same. There was just these feelings i got when watching movies on the RMC 1L that I'm not getting from the Anthem. Theres this sound signature from the RMC unit. I'm guessing its from the DACs they use. I was wondering how much of a difference there is between DIRAC & ARC as well. Luckily I still have more time to experiment with the Anthem.
Who said you can't do input calibration? The parametric equalization was probably the best EQ on the market (might still be) and could have benefited from a programming in a REW adjustment curve in the TA-E9000ES.
Thanks for drawing attention to the fine EQ capabilities of the TA-E9000ES. I was also using it with a miniDSP based on REW measurements to drive two subwoofers independently. -Jon
Thanks for an interesting video. Marantz 50 is much less expensive than the Emotive Processor/AMP combination and has to drive more channels than a 20 year old Sony. Maybe the power supplies are the limiting variables. Slightly rolling off the bass level on the Marantz may have no real effect when using a subwoofer.
I do believe in what you are saying becaus Marantz they're not the same anymore just like Pioneer elite, that's why I did moved towards Yamaha instead.
I have experienced some minor issue. Mostly after moving HDMi cables around while the unit is turned on. Best practice is to power down before moving cables around. Jon
Thank you for your interesting comparison. I suspect Sony will even sound better if u connect the apple tv directly to Sony via optical cable if possible. Marantz in this comparison is punching above its weight. AV Pre-pro is normally better than AV receiver
You are right. Before replacing the Sony with the new Processor and Receiver, I feed that AppleTV (which only has HDMI output) to my TV and then used the TV's optical out to the Sony. What I have created is a two-tier test setup where the Marantz AVR serves as reference tier 1 and the Emotiva RMC-1 services as tier 2. Going forward it will be interesting to compare the Marantz AVR against other AVRs from Sony, Emotiva, Yamaha and Onkyo etc. to see how it then compares. Jon
By switching quickly between test units you avoid the risk of forgetting what the first unit sounded like. I need to go back and forth several times to make sure I am getting it right. -Jon
I find Apple’s behavior inconsistent- on one hand they are raising the audio bar for mass-market by hosting hi-res files and Atmos content. Seems we have an influx of Atmos tracks on Apple Music which likely outnumbers the SACD/DSD content and the have the attention of those who don’t know what it is but now want it. On the other hand they don’t execute on presenting that content at its best. Seems that would be easy for a company of their size and capability. It is almost like they are intentionally holding back so they can drive sales of a future generation of devices they finally delivers. It’s a shame. Question - what do you mean by “cd play” and “vinyl play”? I believe WiiM supports Tidal Master Tracks now. -Jon
A very interesting comparison, especially as it was conducted in Direct Audio mode. In fact, when playing movies on my HTCP via an Nvidia GPU, with dual HDMI output, the first one feeding straight to my display, the second output used exclusively for audio (older Onkyo 1.4 HDMI capable model), I find I get the best results when sending 7.1 PCM from my MPC-HC or PotPlayer software to my Onkyo processor in Direct Audio listening mode. Although no or very little sound processing is taking place and the room correction is defeated, the results are far better than when bitstreaming. Indeed, when the decoding is done by the Onkyo processor, it is as if the sound is ever so slightly muffled and less bright. I had the same experience with my older Emotiva AV processor. Am I the only one who prefers Direct Audio to DTS-HD Master/Dolby TrueHD for movies? I hope this is not due to the fact that in Direct Mode, the sound is louder and therefore I perceive it as being better, as you quite rightly pointed out.
Odd - I thought I replied to you the other day. Nevertheless. I was curious to know what "vinyl play" is - is that a mode that a streaming service has. I know that WiiM supports Tidal masters now. It is unfortunate that Apple doesn't do more. They are inconsistent. While their library has hi-res files, I you can access those in full resolution with their Apple Music service through other devices, the fact that you can't through their own hardware is bizarre. -Jon
Interesting review but not really apples to apples. It would be nice to see a review of the Cinema 50 vs the Emotiva MR1 or MR1L. Most people looking to spend $2500 are not going to double up their budget to get the Emotiva RMC-1 plus amplification at $5000. They would likely be more interested to see if they could get as good or better performance as the Cinema 50 for less money.
Emotiva as going to send me something in their MR1/MR1L/MC1 series, but never did. I should have just purchased up front and returned. Lesson learned. Perhaps a task for the coming months.
I have compared the Cinema 50 with other brands at $2,500 or less (such as the Onkyo TX-RZ50, which sounded better).
With that said, I will continue to compare lower cost models against higher cost models as well. That is for those who want to know if they spend more, do they get more. They are cases were the higher priced model doesn't win on sound quality or features. The Cinema 50 beats the Emotiva RMC-1 on feature, but not sound quality.
-Jon
@@ripewave Thanks Jon! Appreciate the feedback 🙂 I agree the Onkyo is a great receiver, and a better value than the Cinema 50. I do love the Cinema 50 styling and user interface, but sound performance is king.
Thanks Jon, this is very interesting! I look forward to what you see when each of them puts 'their best foot forward'
Glad there is interest in this approach. It may take a few weeks to tune each enough to feel the configurations are good enough for a fair comparison.-Jon
I am glad that you do what you do because too many influencers on UA-cam and we just can't trust those reviews.
No one has AB the marantz like you're doing and as we discovered the marantz had a cheap TI DAC, I expected the results to be what you're discovering.
Great work.
I am glad you like the approach I am taking for the channel. I am simply researching before purchasing and testing after I buy as I did prior to having this channel. Instead I doing it for myself, I am sharing with the UA-cam community. It’s a hobby for me, I have a day job for my primary income.
A/B tests are the only way I can really judge - especially if the differences are minor.
Good information of the DACs. Do you know which TI chips are in the Cinema 50?
Jon
@@ripewave can't remember which version of the TI DAC, but ASR did a teardown of the 3800 which has the same DAC without the Hdam. The 3800 did not get great review.
Great video but you didnt use the Sony DAC, You feed it analog after the emotiva decoded it. Feed them all a digital optical signal and re run the tests
Really good comparison 👏
Have you also compared Anthem AVM 70 against Emotiva RMC-1. Being RMC-1L owner for couple years I know it sounds really good.
The testing is well done. Most AVR have a sound signature I think when you bypass the internal amplification and use the same amps it narrows down the field quickly which all are great.
Glad you like the approach. -Jon
Hi John,
This and the other related videos have helped me already make an upgrade decision for my Great Room Media Center. I am opting to go with the Emotiva RMC-1L processor. when the new model updates are completed per HDMI 2.1. Question per thoughts of amplification. I was going to order some amps from them as well.. Curious if you have any comparisons of the BasX models vs their flag ship XPA Gen 3 modular?
I have yet to test out the BasX models. However, reports I hear are all positive on that range. If you keep them close to the processor, the lack of balanced inputs shouldn't introduce noise. The XPA models will likely provide more gain and higher power reserves for dynamic content. -Jon
Recently went from a Denon 6400 to an RMC 1L. The RMC 1L is head and shoulders better listening to movies. My biggest gripe is the little gremlins in the system. My setup is on my living room. If i had to just use the unit in a dedicated theater room i would live with the issues. I switched to the Anthem AVM 70. It sounds good with movies as well. But I think the RMC 1L sounds better. I went back and forth demoing different movies on both units for a few days. I'm still trying different things to see if and how I can improve the sound on the AVM 70. Deep inside there's still a possibility i send the AVM70 back and get the RMC 1L.
Edward - Keep me posted on our goal to improve the AVM70 configuration/calibration and ideally equal or better the RMC-1L. I hope to test the AVM70 or 90 at some point in 2023. I feel that Emotiva and Anthem are in close competition with each other and would like to better understand the pros and cons beyond what can be determined on paper. -Jon
@@ripewave I think it might come close. But it's not going to be the same. There was just these feelings i got when watching movies on the RMC 1L that I'm not getting from the Anthem. Theres this sound signature from the RMC unit. I'm guessing its from the DACs they use. I was wondering how much of a difference there is between DIRAC & ARC as well. Luckily I still have more time to experiment with the Anthem.
Anything is better than a denon...i had the x8500h boy what a mistake anthem avm90 is my goal..
Sorry you were disappointed with the top Denon receiver.
@@blueflame0003 im currently using the avm90. I wanted to see how it compared to the 70. the 70 is still within my return period.
Gold colour
Sony E9000es remote ?
Who said you can't do input calibration? The parametric equalization was probably the best EQ on the market (might still be) and could have benefited from a programming in a REW adjustment curve in the TA-E9000ES.
Thanks for drawing attention to the fine EQ capabilities of the TA-E9000ES. I was also using it with a miniDSP based on REW measurements to drive two subwoofers independently. -Jon
Thanks for an interesting video. Marantz 50 is much less expensive than the Emotive Processor/AMP combination and has to drive more channels than a 20 year old Sony. Maybe the power supplies are the limiting variables. Slightly rolling off the bass level on the Marantz may have no real effect when using a subwoofer.
Hi brother I am from India
Just throwing this out there, but it would be interesting to see how they compare if you give the Marantz a 2-3 db higher advantage.
That would be easy enough to try - a bit unfair, but I could to settle the curiosity. -Jon
@@ripewave Been trying D-MAX, if you not happy with the sound compared to the Emotiva, try enabling it, bring out some additional details.
Great work!!
Thanks for the encouragement- Jon
I do believe in what you are saying becaus Marantz they're not the same anymore just like Pioneer elite, that's why I did moved towards Yamaha instead.
Testing the Yamaha right now and finding it to be very good - better then Marantz. Thanks for your comment. -Jon
Experiencing any bugs with the RMC-1?
I have experienced some minor issue. Mostly after moving HDMi cables around while the unit is turned on. Best practice is to power down before moving cables around. Jon
Thank you for your interesting comparison. I suspect Sony will even sound better if u connect the apple tv directly to Sony via optical cable if possible. Marantz in this comparison is punching above its weight. AV Pre-pro is normally better than AV receiver
You are right. Before replacing the Sony with the new Processor and Receiver, I feed that AppleTV (which only has HDMI output) to my TV and then used the TV's optical out to the Sony.
What I have created is a two-tier test setup where the Marantz AVR serves as reference tier 1 and the Emotiva RMC-1 services as tier 2.
Going forward it will be interesting to compare the Marantz AVR against other AVRs from Sony, Emotiva, Yamaha and Onkyo etc. to see how it then compares.
Jon
@@ripewave Thank you for your reply and look forward to your future review/comparison. Your method of A/B comparison is a really good idea.
By switching quickly between test units you avoid the risk of forgetting what the first unit sounded like. I need to go back and forth several times to make sure I am getting it right. -Jon
Nice but no cd or vinyl play or even tidal master tracks. Apple not a good units for audio. Remember Apple doesn't care about us audiophile.
I find Apple’s behavior inconsistent- on one hand they are raising the audio bar for mass-market by hosting hi-res files and Atmos content. Seems we have an influx of Atmos tracks on Apple Music which likely outnumbers the SACD/DSD content and the have the attention of those who don’t know what it is but now want it. On the other hand they don’t execute on presenting that content at its best. Seems that would be easy for a company of their size and capability. It is almost like they are intentionally holding back so they can drive sales of a future generation of devices they finally delivers. It’s a shame.
Question - what do you mean by “cd play” and “vinyl play”? I believe WiiM supports Tidal Master Tracks now. -Jon
What av stands are those
They look like monoprice stand similar to the one I'm going to get instead of an expensive rack...
Ouch! For spending wisely..
A very interesting comparison, especially as it was conducted in Direct Audio mode.
In fact, when playing movies on my HTCP via an Nvidia GPU, with dual HDMI output, the first one feeding straight to my display, the second output used exclusively for audio (older Onkyo 1.4 HDMI capable model), I find I get the best results when sending 7.1 PCM from my MPC-HC or PotPlayer software to my Onkyo processor in Direct Audio listening mode.
Although no or very little sound processing is taking place and the room correction is defeated, the results are far better than when bitstreaming. Indeed, when the decoding is done by the Onkyo processor, it is as if the sound is ever so slightly muffled and less bright. I had the same experience with my older Emotiva AV processor.
Am I the only one who prefers Direct Audio to DTS-HD Master/Dolby TrueHD for movies? I hope this is not due to the fact that in Direct Mode, the sound is louder and therefore I perceive it as being better, as you quite rightly pointed out.
Emotiva better sound better for the extra 1,250$
I agree
Nice but no cd or vinyl play or even tidal master tracks. Apple not a good units for audio. Remember Apple doesn't care about us audiophile.
Odd - I thought I replied to you the other day. Nevertheless. I was curious to know what "vinyl play" is - is that a mode that a streaming service has. I know that WiiM supports Tidal masters now. It is unfortunate that Apple doesn't do more. They are inconsistent. While their library has hi-res files, I you can access those in full resolution with their Apple Music service through other devices, the fact that you can't through their own hardware is bizarre. -Jon