Ferrari 458 VS McLaren MP4-12C 10 Years Later
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- Опубліковано 29 кві 2022
- It's hard to believe that the Ferrari 458 and McLaren MP4-12C are already over 10 years old! The 12C was my dream car when it came out, and I thought for sure I wanted one some day. The Ferrari 458 might be a better car, and probably is more reliable. But the prevalent question is, 10 years later, is the McLaren a better performance bargain today?
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#McLaren #Ferrari #458vs12C - Авто та транспорт
Gear boxes generally fail because some people buy them as garage queens, the oil doesn't get frequently circulated as needed. The cars should be driven at least once a month, to keep the battery fully charged, & to lubricate. You don't use it, you lose it😉
That's certainly a part of it
Hello. I'm Dario, from La Ciotat, near Marseille.
I bought a 2011 12c in Monaco last may 2022.
Big fan! Love it! This car has a huge sympathy capital. More than Italian and German supercars.
Our only issue in France is the number of McLaren dealers (2: Monaco & Paris). For me it's ok as I'd drive to Monaco (220kms) in 2hours.
But what a NICE car!
Congrats
I bought my 12C back in September of 2020 and at the time it was a total bargain compared to what 458's were going for. Now in hindsight the 458 would have been a better investment (funny to talk about these as investments) due to their crazy appreciation the last two years. With that said, my 12C appreciated almost 20% in the year I had it.. I didn't have a single problem with the car and put about 8k miles on it between road trips, driving it home from San Diego after buying it and various coffee runs haha. The 12C is really under appreciated and to a certain degree misunderstood. I do love seeing you paint them in a different light now that you've experienced one a bit more though. The way I see it, it's really hard to compare these two because they're just such different cars even though they were meant to be competitors. I guess it just depends on what you're looking for! Thanks for another great vid Dan!
Yeah they behave totally different. That's what's fun about experiencing them though.
@@normalguysupercar Absolutely, you gotta appreciate them for what they are. Good luck with the sale!
Next video: I BOUGHT THE BLOODY McLAREN LOL!
There was much rejoicing .......LMAO!
LOL na, it's sold now.
Is it weird that I find MP4-12C attractive? I read and heard so many issues about MP4-12C, but I just cant stop liking the car.
Same here. I particularly like the side and back profile. Epitomy of a sportscar outline. Perhaps, check out the channel of Frank Stephenson, he was head of design at McLaren back then and creates excellent videos about automotive design.
Looks are subjective. Not weird at all
I like it too, but the more modern ones I think look a little bit better, my personal favourite would be the 720
I think it's a very good looking car.
@@normalguysupercar Its a good thing you got the car. I can get some idea about the actual quality of the car (reliability department). Looking forward to you explaining about ownership experience and issues you uncover (although you plan to own this for only short time).
Honestly I'd go 458 over the the 12C, mainly because the 458 is a bit more special being the last NA V8 platform from Ferrari, and that its easier to get parts for them for the time being
Parts, yes that’s true
Plus it looks better.
Get both, I have a challenge stradale and a 12c (and a 12c gtsprint). Love them both, for different reasons.
Yup
No drag race against a 458? 😪
Sorry
Great review. In the UK there are at least a couple of Indy dealers that can work on these now and I think you have done in the US as well. Also some of the gearbox issues may have arisen because the cars were not used and gearbox oil seals can dry out and leak. As with all cars regular use is the best way of keeping these cars healthy.
Great video Dan. Thanks. Sounds like your right blinker may be out. FYI.
Lol I think it was letting fluid in
Honestly, if I had to choose any McLaren, the MP4-12C despite it's boring name is by far my favorite having only read, seen, and heard those cars.
They are pretty badass
It is the best looking of all the McLarens
458 looks 10 years newer but I think Mclarens look far better in person. They don’t seem to photograph as well as Ferrari or Lamborghini.
The Volcano paint certainly is much better looking in person than in pictures.
You're just having too much damn fun. Looked like driving it was a f#$%ing blast. You're right about the paddle shifters. On the wheel it seems like having to search for them would be challenging and clumsy.
But Jesus...what fun that looks like. Great video.👍👍👍
Yeah I certainly enjoyed myself
Since you started talking about the doors and parking, I've been looking at how to park it with those doors...park it at the end of a parking lot where there's a end cap (?term) curb to protect it and walk... and learn to be a gentleman and get out first and help your lady get out of the car...don't let chivalry die.
Basically.
Good to see your garage again after a long time!
Thanks
Its a tough one, both fantastic, but for speed/track car its mclaren all day long, 458 is slow in comparison. There is also a large part availability for mclaren. If you know, you know. It isnt hard, at all. Im an owner. Also transmissions are mainly reliable. Mine is totally fine and its a very early build. I love my 12c, Mclaren are really starting to step up and competitors should worry. I've done my fair share of official work on mclarens and yes, buying i was worried because all of the crap on the internet but put it this way, I took the jump and WON. Massively under rated and undervalued. But they will go up in value more. 100%
Indeed
I LOL'd hard at the "the British are coming" remark.
Lol thanks
i was at McLaren getting new tires this week and i asked the service manager about that start button issue and he said there is about 5 different start modesa and it depends on how you turned off the car and what state you leave it in as to how many pushes it needs... my car just finished and i didn't get a full explanation of what the heck the different modes were about and how to stop it but that's been my 1st McLaren person that actually ackniledged ( and said they'd actually heard of it ) it... i love to know what the actual modes are and what to do to avoid the 3 push one :)
Oh, that is interesting indeed.
To me, the 12C is a fantastic daily driver given the smoother suspension and ease of driving, I couldn't imagine driving a 458 daily, especially in urban areas, just too much effort and discomfort
Yup
Are parts like brake pads and rotors etc hard to get for these McClarens? Or are you referring to other parts that may break or go bad? I am getting ready to start seriously looking. I have about $100,000 to 140,000 to spend. I am in the game with the 360 or 430 but man you have kind of sold me on these cars. I have always looooooved the looks of the MP4-12c's. Thanks
Those parts wouldn't be hard to get.
And if I don't buy one, I'll save 100%!
My Dad (when I was a kid) once told a sales guy making a pitch, exactly that. I've remembered it ever since. lol
True
Definite Ferrari bias among the majority of viewers of NGS as reflected in the comments. I think this was a pretty fair review of the McLaren by Dan (who is a Ferrari acolyte ;) . When one considers the McLaren could be 1/2 the price of a 458, it is a no brainer. The 458 is a great car, but twice as "good" as the McLaren....not even close. As Dan stated the Ferrari DCT has had issues as well and is an equally expensive (if not more) repair. Both great cars, get what your budget permits and drive your cars people!
Exactly! I'd still take the 458 but I think the McLaren shouldn't be so easily dismissed as a bargain.
I couldn't agree more. I drove Ferraris, Lambos, and several McLarens before I made the decision to go with my 12C. The DIY community is growing, the alternative support for repairs like Thorney Motorsports in the UK, and McMedics in the US are expanding, giving you alternatives with much better pricing. Many of the common issues like temperature A/C screens going bad can now be fixed by their owners for $450 in 15 mins, the accumulators are about $1,300 and can be done in less than one hour. Hose clamp failures, pumps, transmissions, now have DIY options to repair them before they fail for very little money. BTW if you buy a 12C from a McLaren dealer you get a one year limited warranty that will cover the major stuff. You can also still extend the warranty after an inspection for another two years from today. I love the 458, and it will be a timeless classic for sure, but the 12C is a massive bargain right now. You can buy two 12Cs for the price of one 458, this way if you're worried about parts and repairs, just use your space 12C parts lol. Last but not least, most of the issues in a McLaren 12C can be solved by turning off the car, locking it, and leaving it alone for 30 minutes lol. The Corvette Z06 is also going to offer a new, nice alternative to 458 N/A engine fanatics. They sound almost the same, it is faster, more HP, and all new tech with a warranty for half the price.
I saw a lot of smiles on your face while driving it..... Isn't that what really matters
Yup
Pretty color! I actually went and saw one of these a couple years ago =when they were even cheaper, but the problem I had is there was no McLAren dealer at all in San Antonio. I did really like the car though and thought it was really cool. I made a "rational" decision by buying the Hellcat. Lol
Haha yes, all of these cars are very rational. 😁
Great review....I'm on #teamferrari....that McLaren is sweet, gorgeous color...my issue is not being able to DIY.... many horror stories of them being in the shop for 6 months...i want a car to get in and drive and to be able to fix myself....great work Dan...hey, how is Tim doing ? Give that man a hug from me !!
Yeah the diy is a concern for sure
458 is the choice selected, premium features, stylish design....big on fun too!!!
Indeed.
458 without thinking twice! The 12C was one of the few supercars I've driven that I didn't like, very electronic, boring, not to mention very unreliable! Great content as always!
I think the reliability thing is not as accurate as people think.
@@normalguysupercar Don't you mean less accurate???
@@dzikijohnny yes typo
Great synopsis. They are both beautiful. One modern and the other almost classic.
One sounds stupid good. The other just great. But one gets you the best performance for half the price. And it looks great.
Indeed
In terms of appreciation n future collector’s car,the 458 is the car. Buy a few if you can afford it now.
True
I chose 458>12c yrs ago and WOW was that a great decision for every reason. 12c is a great car but dime a dozen experience, let’s be real it’s a bargain supercar. 458 is 1:1, incredibly unique experience, a legend.
I certainly think the 458 is a better car but it's hard to argue the $100k price difference right now.
@@normalguysupercarand realistically - 458 *may* appreciate more, but the upside/downside of the 12c is negligible. Spend 110k for a great car, chances are it goes up/down very little. Lots of fun for 110k with little risk other than maintenance. I’d take the 458 for sure in comparison, but independently, 12c is a hell of a car for the price.
I’m interested in getting this 12c, is a good to be used as your everyday car or is it more if a seasonal car..
I've been researching as well, and it seems like they are relatively reliable. Obviously it won't be as reliable as a Honda, but in supercar terms they do well.
Have you made a “ Nefarious Activities “ t-shirt for NGSupercars?
Well, there's a Nefarious Activities shirt we sell.
www.normalguysupercar.com/product/nefarious-activities-t-shirt/
12C for me every time 😎 The (relatively) discrete looks have matured very nicely while the 458 looks fussy and flashy. In terms of performance it's not even close, a 12C will absolutely walk a 458 unless Ferrari send a pit crew to "optimize" it for the test. McLaren unreliability is massively overstated by internet while Ferrari owners are scared to use them as used values are hyper sensitive to mileage.
Eh I don't agree with all of that but certainly the 12c is an impressive car
@@normalguysupercar yes lots of generalizations here more, indicative of internet perspectives than actual tangible experiences.
Is your Ferrari affinity via F1? Been a fan for 60 years but always a bigger McLaren fan. Love them both looking in from the outside!
No, I really am not a huge F1 fan.
Damn Dan, it's MP4 DASH 12C!:-D
Lol
I so agree! I love these cars!
Yup
The McLaren is a hell of a car for the price.
Another cool vehicle too is that EGO Power Zero Turn lawn mower.. great stuff, hope you make better choices than Adam when mowing the lawn hahaha
Lol thank you
You have to push the brake hard to start the car instantly. McLaren quirk.
That too
The prices make them an amazing bargin...even if you move up a generation or two to 570 you are still looking at only $180k.
Yup!
In uk the 570 cost 80k
Got to love the UA-cam auto CC. 4X4 8 Ferrari
LOL!
Bargain wise the 12c stacks up pretty well, 1.5 years ago you were able to pick the up 100k, even now with this market there 120. Problem is there terribly unreliable compared to the 458, the extended warranty is only 12 years as opposed to Ferraris 15. I just went through this exact dilemma, I was going to buy a 12c because of such a great deal, but after many months wound up with a 458 and haven't regretted it for a second. The reliability and the ability for a 15 year power warranty clinched the deal for me
Yeah the warranty part is certainly another checkbox in the Ferrari's favor
@@normalguysupercar mclaren is 15 now
I’m with you I feel the 458 look is classic and timeless. Where the 12C is modern yet a little dated. Both are beautiful though. Guess the 12C is a good deal though.
I don't really see the 12c as dated looking but the 458 does have more appeal
@@normalguysupercar well I guess once you’ve seen them for a while if you don’t particularly like them that much. The 12C isn’t terrible but not as attractive as all the others in that class. I would rank the 12C last in that group of that era. At least in looks. Lol
I understand all McLaren's have open differentials? Probably the cause of the active differential traction controls.
Correct.
Funny that you’re wearing an I hate turbos shirt while driving a twin turbo car lol
It says I hate turbo lag... But yes that was intentional
The aftermarket is what will save the resale on MP4-12c. The $3,000 battery is a massive turnoff. Another knock is the shared hydraulic fluid between systems. Not sure if McLaren altered this set up, but that could be a future mod that would help the minds of future buyers/current owners.
That's true
There are alternatives to the battery for half the price. It is a lithium battery and in most 12Cs it has lasted over 10 years, so when you break that down over 10 years the cost is small. However, you can get an AGM battery for about $1,500, it just requires McLaren to switch the programming from Lithium to AGM. You can even get batteries with a remote option to avoid the window rolldown issue when the Lithium battery dies. As for the suspension, the hydraulic system is amazing and remains in all the Super Series and Ultimate Series cars because it is truly amazing. You can have the ride of a Rolls Royce around town, or the stiffness of a GT3 cup car on a track.
@@DeeperImageAutomotive how are the maintenance costs on the hydraulic system? Is it reliable?
A tear later, is your premise still holding true? I will be in the market for one (12C) soon. Super low mile better than a 20K mile car?Thanks.
Generally
@@normalguysupercar Or, would a 20K mile car be more likely to be more long term worthy due to having the issues already dealt with? Thanks very much.
As a car guy, there are things I like and dislike about both cars. If money weren’t an object I’d have one of each, along with several other cars. I will say that as a personal preference I’d rather have a 458 over a 488. Haven’t experienced any mclarens other then the 4c so can’t really speak to that. But I’m also the kind of guy that really likes the California T too.
And if you are looking to get a supercar, especially for the first time, see what issues that particular model has because they all have something. The Ferrari DCT issue affected all cars fitted with it up until around 2015, though some suffered worse then the others. But at least there is a repair for that unlike the brake issue on 458’s that has no current solution. But long story short it’s a good idea to know what issues there are, what remedy’s are available, parts availability, time to repair, and cost and plan accordingly.
These cars are so close to cutting edge, new tech they are gonna break. But they offer a lot of joy when operating properly. Kinda nice to see the current direction as Dan and Adam get to experience a lot of different cars, learn the wrenching techniques for them and share their opinions and experience. I’m kinda jealous.
Thanks and I agree, in an ideal world you'd have them all. Lol
Is your plate actual carbon fiber or is carbon fiber like ?
The plate? It's metal
bargains indeed. My independent ferrari mechanic bought one cheap just so he can learn how to work on them. Many friends chose to pay 4k a year in factory warranty for the peace of mind. Once the aftermarket and 3rd party mechanics catch up to the issues and repairs, these (and the 570s 650s 675lt etc) are great performance bargains that are at the same time shouty to look at (something that porsche lacks). However, the 458 is still probably a better financial decision, even if the dct blows up, the 458 has gone up so much in value (30% in my case) that you are still way ahead if u need to sell.
Very true
Very thorough review, gorgeous car, just not my cup of tea. I'm just a Ferrari gal till death, there's no hope of converting me.. No car completely makes me happy like Ferrari. 🏁😎 JMO
And that's completely acceptable. Lol
Ferrari 458 all the way. 12c is a great car but just cannot top the iconic 458. 12c have too many other issues and Ferrari is overall better investment
Perhaps so.
458 for sure if it’s the right years. Mc12 only if they had done all the rebuilt issues and had the upgrades needed plus extended warranty lol
Eh I suppose
@@normalguysupercar I was jk, kinda. for me it’s the naturally aspirated engine and the more analog feeling the 458 gives. But if I had to go purely for performance and costs the McLaren would be the best choice.
What a blessed Man…
Thanks
I would go with the 458 just to have a Ferrari but the 12C is a performance bargain and the McLaren name is no slouch.
Yup
I love the 458 but the 12c is such a bargain. IMO the 458 isnt worth 100k more than the 12c
Yeah
Proud owner of the Ferrari 458. But I have to say I do like the look of the McLaren. But of course, Ferrari all the way.
Yeah, I still prefer the 458. But.... not a bad deal right now on the 12c.
This is the most reliable car
I wouldn't go that far
The 458, to me, is the choice of these 2 cars.
For sure
A very fair and informative video - thanks! For our own video we asked the question 'Is the McLaren MP4-12C a modern classic?' and interviewed the designer Frank Stephenson plus Dean Lanzante, the McLaren specialist whose Ueno Clinic McLaren F1 won Le Mans in 1995 and Alastair Bols, who launched the MP4-12C for McLaren in the first showroom in London. Alastair has sold in the region of 800 McLarens. Anyway, thanks again for the video, and if you want to watch ours, here is a link: ua-cam.com/video/BhnitGOMfug/v-deo.html
Cool thanks
I'd like to be able to afford an old clapped out 4 6 mustang GT someday. Not sure why I'm here 🤷♂️
Those are fun
458 all day long (as they say in georgia)
Yes indeed
Actually in dubai yes this car worth 50 to 60 k 😂
Yup
The ugly truth is that the 458 hasn’t aged as well as the Mclaren. The gearbox of the Ferrari is a bit “meeehhhhh”....
Well people complaining about the transmissions are the ones who rev the car while driving, launch all the time...etc..it’s the truth period.
And what you are not telling is the Ferrari service nightmare. Last 2 services for mine, one was 44k, another 33k. And you say the have more value... well you spent it, so are they really more valuable?
What service are you doing that's costing that much?
It is my pleasure to see such beauty. You are stunning! Stop being too perfect
Your selling the car so it makes sense to convince the audience to buy one 🎉😊
The car is already sold 😉
Only one problem with the McLaren.... It doesn't say "Ferrari" on the back.
LOL!
That's like saying a Patek Philippe isn't a Rolex
1000x times McLaren
Indeed
Sorry Dan, I want Porsche more. When are you going to get a Porsche?
when they are worth it lol
Who’s to say we don’t have one? 😉
@@normalguysupercar your sidekicks doesn't count lol
@@PixelVogue we bought one yesterday. Lol
What a load of CRAP.
I'm in Sydney Australia and have owned an MP4 for 8 years.
It's never missed a beat.
And I also know for a fact that McLaren Sydney (the only factory distributor in Australia) have never changed EVEN ONE transmission.
This is COMPLETE BOLLOCKS.
PS. The dual clutch transmission McLaren use is not even made by them. Many other marques use the same box.
Ok
They are great performance per $ spent.
Ferrari has that 'something' soul, beyond just the performance figures.
Agreed.
Expensive and Poor supply of parts = Poor Residuals and Poor owner experience
Buy a Ferrari every time
Certainly I prefer Ferrari overall
458 all day, every day. I would rather own any Ferrari than the 12c. The color of this 12c is beautiful though, I'll give it that, but you can get a 458 in a similar color, they are just very rare. Here is an example: ua-cam.com/video/NKrXewldGoY/v-deo.html
Rosso Fuoco