I also live in Nashville -- what is the best place to grab baltic birch? I've gone to middle tn lumber and got Chinese birch, and I've gone to a local lumber yard in Columbia. The prices were so wildly different and the quality was hit or miss for either!
MDF is good for a cheap sandwich material. I can actually quote two examples that are extremely different from each other besides requiring a special room. Had a lab that was shielded to 90 db down at 6GHz in the inner rooms - the whole place was made with MDF panels that were copper clad. Needed to soak up a bunch of low frequency vibrations - used MDF and a roll of that thick vinyl sound deadening stuff to make panels that soaked up not just low end but almost everything off the DUT(device under test). It's great for a lot of things except where weight or structural strength is a factor :-)
If you are going to paint it, you can mix the sawdust from your cutting with wood glue and press the mixture into any cracks and depressions to fill them in. Then when the glue cures you can sand it down like normal and have a smooth even surface to paint.
The "Sanded Ply" at Home depot isn't actually sanded ply.... well, it is S2S so technically it is sanded, but it's "Sande" ply (no d at the end). Sande is a species of wood used predominantly to make plywood. It looks like a typo on the tag at Home Depot... but it's not a typo :)
RIP offs....I'm sick of all these tricks and shameful ad word play these companies employ to make a sale....and let's not forget all these complacent companies that middle man these products in their stores are just as bad, if not a little worse....for example: lowes, home depot, ace...etc. It's time to stop rewarding these companies with continued sales Until they take some responsibility and change. And NO it isnt the supply chain debacle we are suffering through at this time. Maybe some items but certainly not everything. The problem is deeper within these powerfull corporations. The supply chain excuse is just that an EXCUSE to shut down any discussions on the real issue(Corprate Greed) and also so to continue doing the customers dirty as they have been for so long....unchallenged,
As a beginning woodworker, this was so darn helpful! I really didn't know the difference between the plywood...just kinda picked something. This was nicely laid ot, very clear! Thanks!
@@Fixthisbuildthat Extremely good video.. I noticed the little dust effect... I'm in the UK and work with boats.. Do you have marine ply? I usually use exterior or there are types that have a coating .. smooth or with various grip surfaces .. that are used on trailers, lorry's and.. boats .. also are in various colours and doesn't need painting some can be painted with certain types of paint and two .. edge on or at angle.. can be made waterproof with fibreglass tape and covered with batten...
@@Fixthisbuildthat Hey, thanks for posting this video. I work at Home Depot in the lumber part in my area, and there isn't any training on different types of plywood, their use cases, etc. This really helps, which is going to help me help customers. Thanks. Also, thank for telling the viewer/customers to put back their plywood when they are done looking. It can take up to 10-30 minutes cleaning up plywood. We could be using that time for cutting, helping you guys or dropping products. Have a good one
I feel bad for anyone getting started in wood now. The same shed that I built for my friend for $90 would cost me almost $500 now, and it only fits a lawnmower and rakes. Until prices come down I have a nice new concrete pad and a tarp with tent stakes. LOL
Do yourself a favor and find actual woodwork suppliers, such as woodcraft, also working with exotics or high end hardwood panels is hyperexpensive, but veneer is not. Nowadays youre a lot better off going direct to mills for stock and if you are actually doing the woodworking, jointing, planing, facing, finishing, Woodcraft has a lof of useful classes that are very informative and worth the time. They are also free a lot of the time.
Parking lot carpentry is the way to go. I’m that girl with my DIY track saw guide. To often the saw at HD is terrible when it actually works and now they want to charge for two or more cuts. Heck the saw at the woodworking store was not in the best shape either but they did have awesome inventory.
@danbert8 nothing a track saw and carpenters square couldn't do. That's my opinion, take it or leave it. And although that's my opinion...I still don't have a track saw...yet 😂
Can we all just cry together at how much things have gone up but also really thankful to get my shop back in a few weeks, we’ve been building and my tools have been in storage for a year and a half! This was a helpful refresher, we used to have a great place in Knoxville that had maple prefinished plywood and it was the most amazing thing to work with!
Mech Eng here. What is interesting is that the flexural stiffness of a sheet is proportional to the cube of its thickness (neglecting the fact that the orientation of the wood grain can vary from ply to ply). The 3/4" material is thus (0.75/0.5)^3 = 3.4x stiffer than 1/2".
Thank, Landry B! I want to that. There are some things that 3/4 is necessary for. There are other things, like drawers, that 1/2 or 1/4 is probably just fine & certainly 100% better than the average MDF drawers with cardboard bottoms from IKEA, Wayfair, & Amazon. The Rockler folding mitre dado & a little stack of 1/4 inch plywood will mKe some pretty drawers!
Another option is to find a decent marine lumber supplier. I build wooden boats and some of the most incredible plywood you'll find is BS1088 rated Meranti or Okoume, especially the ones certified by Llyods of London. You'll pay almost $300 for a sheet of 18mm Okoume (almost 3/4"), but this is the stuff that they use in high end yachts so it's basically void-less and has about the same color as a good mahogany. The Okoume is very light and flexible while the Meranti is heavier and stiffer. Another plus is that you can get it in a large variety of thicknesses.
Great overview video! Love working with baltic birch! Another tip when at the big retailers - if you know you don't need a full sheet, have a look at the damaged options. You might be cutting off the corner or edge anyway for your project and if you ask for a discount at the checkout, you might save an extra 10-20%! *This may require manager approval, but usually the cashiers in the garden center or lumber center have that authority, at least up to a certain amount.
As a 23 year retail employee at HD I want to say THANK YOU for the tip about returning the sheets back to the stack "The way you found them"! Nothing irritates us more tham shoppers sliding off to the next bay and LEAVING them there! Again , THANK YOU!
If I have to dig through the stack to find a sheet that isn’t damaged, I’m not restacking. I’m helping someone keep a job. They can restack it for the next guy.
@@MemoGrafix If someone breaks your windows and steal your car stereos, it makes more work for many different people from cops, insurance agents, window installers, glass manufacturers, stereo manufactures, car stereo installers, alarm companies, hawk shops, etc. If your lucky someone could also kick a big dent in your door, just to make some more work for yah, that would also help boost your local economy, making your city a better place to live.
I made a cabinet recently. Back panel 2' x 4'. 3x 24x12" panels horizontal, 2x 22.5x12" for vertical top section, 2x 23.25x12" for the bottom section. Bottom section is open unshelved. I'm going to be mounting a couple things inside (a battery power tool rack, battery storage, and a row of bins). Top section I went 2 24x12" full overlay soft close hinged doors. 2 22x11" adjustable shelves. Frameless cabinet. I went with veneered plywood from home Depot, I forget the brand, but it's 3/4 inch walnut veneered. I ordered 1x 2x4' piece and either 6 or 7 2x2' sheets. The quality on these are amazing. Didn't find a single void. I inspected every sheet (they were boxed nicely, protected, delivered to my door) and they were perfect! Tho I think the 2x4' was $40 and the 2x2' were about $19-22. There were also sheets that were advertised as 2 face veneered. Thinking that these only had veneer on one side, I ordered a roll of veneer as well. Life lesson. These were veneered on both sides. This was my first actual woodworking/carpentry project ever, at 43 years old 😂 I did a lot of research along the way and opted to go for pocket holes instead of brad nailing. The Kreg pocket hole jig set was only about $40, another $10 or so for a box of 1 1/4" pocket hole screws (the appropriate size for 3/4 wood) and a box of plugs for the holes was about $5. Much cheaper than an air compressor and Brad nailer, or an electric Brad nailer that would be good enough. Ended up getting the Kreg adjustable shelf jig for drilling the holes for the pegs, a Kreg concealed hinge jig, and the Kreg 24" circular saw guide rail system. For the finish, I used boiled linseed oil, then finished with polycrylic satin. I probably spent a total, with all the jigs and wood and hardware, twice+ what I could have got a quality pre built for, but it was an exciting and fun project, and it's a great feeling every time I look at it and realize, "I built that." It looks as good as any American made pre-built. Not sure what my original point was for posting this comment, but here it is, so..
That string in your plywood comes from the manufacturing process. When the veneer strips are put together for the cross grain layers (the cores), they are held together by that glued string so they can be easily layered in the boards. A typical 5 layer sheet is constructed by stacking a back, a core, a center, another core, and a face. Backs, centers and faces are three different grades of veneers. Holes in the veneers from the curvature of the logs are called "wanes". I've actually seen boards in the stores with huge wanes in the backs.
@@jimhabsfan I used to work at Moncure Plywood in Moncure, North Carolina. It's Southern Veneer Specialty Products now. They can make several plywood products, but they specialize in hardwood plywood (Poplar and Sweetgum) for the furniture industry.
So your explanation of plywood grades is pretty good, I have worked in plywood manufacturing for 30+ years, I have sanded and graded softwood for many years and am now going to the brand new hardwood line . The plys vary according to thickness, the grading is more to face and core gaps, normal Finnish sand in softwood is 60 grit. Thank you for this education for the masses.
At my local lowes if you want stuff cut it takes freakin forever, they are horribly understaffed. I have a tracksaw and circular saw, they can't beat me
I've been using leftover scrap plywood, but starting to run out, and just as I'm about to do a complete garage reorganization. This came at a perfect time for me, and very helpful advice.
That's the way the new gen rolls...You have to beat them to the fresh stack as usual; it is a real crowd-pleaser when it happens to them. Excellent content.
So a knowledgeable customer comes into the store to buy plywood that is extremely over priced by an over paid exec that knows nothing about wood or plywood from HD and Lowes. He knows that he is getting ripped off but he needs the plywood to build his project so that he can feed his family and put a roof over his head. He starts pulling reject sheets of plywood off the stack that other people have put back on top of the stack. He removes a few sheets and finally finds a sheet that is somewhat acceptable and decides to take it while really wishing he had more time to hunt for a better sheet; but time is money and wasted time is wasted money. Why because HD and Lowes wants to sell a crappy sheet of plywood for the same over inflated price as a good sheet and want the customer to do all the work. That is why I don't restack the plywood. HD and Lowes doesn't give a rats turd about their customer, they only care about the all-mighty dollar.
Radiata Ply is FANTASTIC for any project! Before the supply crunch it was $30.95 per sheet at the orange store. Fantastic value! Wish they sold that same type in a 1/2" sheet. At $57 per sheet now I get birch ply at my RAW wood supplier at $65. Not baltic birch, straight birch. Baltic Birch is same price but in a 5x5 sheet, so less area per sheet. If the sheet has a bow it will not go away, never. You can force it straight but move on to another sheet. it's not worth the worry!
If you see dye marks that are parallel to the grain, pass that sheet up. It means the glue didn't set where the marks are drawn. (Don't worry about dye marks across the grain. They mean it took two passes for that veneer to dry)
You have no idea how happy I was to find this video! I'm a complete beginner and when I find plans for things they don't indicate specifics like what type of plywood to purchase and it's overwhelming.
Fantastic advice all around! I wondered what type of wood my bookcase was made of that melted in the flood. That's what convinced me to buy only hardwood furniture from then on. Also appreciated the tip on how to rifle through wood stacks to find the one you like, much like a shirt on display.
I have a Corolla and have in years past had the big box stores inaccurately cut my lumber so, I do it myself in the parking lot all the time! Did so just yesterday to breakdown a 2x12x12!
GREAT information buddy... I learned a few things that will for sure help me out BIG TIME! When it comes to sheet goods, I know very little but not anymore, lol.
Good video. Thank you for posting. 1) I loved your dusty demolition of the dust text. That was awesome. 2) I appreciate you putting prices. Even though they will vary with time and location, it is still helpful to see the comparison.
good video and a good start to help educate people on sheet goods. It can be very confusing for many. And that is just what is available at the local big box store. For some real fun have people start exploring the sheet goods available at a hardwood store. Tons of options and also reflected in the price. Just a couple notes that may be helpful. You can easily find standard particle board in 4x8 sheets, or go with industrial grade particle board that has better density and comes in a standard of 49x97 inches. It's great when you need a bunch of 24" rips that you cant get from standard 4x8 sheets due to your saw kerf. You can also find it in lengths up to 12' in length. I had a cabinet shop for several years and we and we often used a product that was melamine on one side with an MDF core and the other side was called rawback. So on one side you had melamine and the other side had a laminate finish that was kind of a mottled looking yellow. It was great on panels where one side was not exposed as it provides great stability. And of course it goes on and on, that I'm sure you know, but avoided as the video would become overwhelming to many. Where I live now, in the middle of nowhere Nebraska (due to the awesome bird hunting) we have Menards as our big box store (75 miles away is the closest) and they have these cute little 22x22" pieces of what they call baltic birch in 1/2". It is 9 ply which is correct for 1/2" baltic birch, but it does have a few (very few) small voids. But they sell them for just a couple dollars each. They are perfect for templates and drawer sides. Just thought I would open the door for those interested to the fact that there are many more types of sheet goods than can be addressed in a single video and the full array may make you crazy. Most baltic birch comes in an odd size of 5x5' but menards has a product that is in 4x8 sheets. I have not purchased any so cant say I cant comment on the quality. Another product similar to Baltic birch is Finnish Plywood. It is similar to baltic birch in the number of plys but it is made with waterproof glue. So if you have liked what this video addressed (and you should like it) you may want to explore even further. Good luck and have fun.
Where i worked (in eu) we had commercial and professional prices, just sign the sign-in sheet and you could get up to 60% off compared to regular prices. Well worth checking out if your local wood supplier has something similar. P.s If youre a beginner woodworker i highly recommend going metric from the start, can save you alot of math related headaches.
I’ve got a CNC due to arrive in a week or so and am considering converting to metric. I end up working with hundredths and thousandths of an inch … seems more reasonable to go metric.
BEST description ever of plywoods. Funny too. I laughed and laughed (I'm a "girl" (plus a few decades) and I have a Prius). I often have to get my first 3 or 5 cuts free so I can fit the pieces in my car. Thanks for the excellent advice. This is a keeper!
I really loved your suggestion about putting back the sheets that you moved. So many people just mess up the stacks and leave it in a mess. Loved your video also.
Thank you, I always pick through the stack and then put em back. I always seem to find the better pieces down in the stack as I'm sure I'm not the only one that goes through them. It's worth it, especially with today's prices.
I have seen a thin slice of metal epoxied to the edge of a 1/2" thick plywood for a 6-foot shelf span. It was quite strong and stable, and the use of 1/2" plywood made it look very elegant. It is astonishing how cool it looks when creating things with undersized material, as long as they are appropriately strengthened with unseen bracers.
Very timely post! Be careful ordering from a plywood supplier when you can't see the material before delivery. Selection and quality has been beyond terrible lately (think wavy potato chips) and the 3/4 Indonesian birch ply they sent was actually 11/16. I have 3 different sizes of "1/4 mdf" in the shop (1/4, 15/64, 7/32) which causes problems when making doors and drawers with 1/4 and 7/32 router bits. Hopefully the supply chain gets fixed soon. Can't find baltic birch or blum runners anywhere in stock.
Very informative. Thank you for reminding about restacking the playwood that you move. It is a pain to move plywood back when you need the plywood under all the wrong plywood. Mom always said "Leave things better than how you found them"
Been building subwoofer enclosures for 20 years, MDF all day every day...maybe some glass mixed in as well. People will use ply as well but usually larger builds. I've also used MDF in some smaller projects just with how easy and stable it is to work with.
Great video. I don’t have a truck so I used to buy project panels primarily because that’s all that fits in the car. I felt embarrassed when you explained how project panels are so overpriced. I needed one 2x4 1/2 and one 2x4 1/4 ply. After going to HD and doing the math, I realized it was “cheaper” to buy full sheets instead of the project panels even after including the price of renting their truck.
Get a minivan or a trailer. My 12' trailer will carry more than any pickup anyway. The other option is that one cut of the panel is usually free so you can cut the full sheet in two in the store.
You earned my subscription with the tip about bringing the circular saw to the store for a 4x8 sheet!!! Genius! My vehicle has a 110v outlet built-in so this is perfect!
Second this, Home Store lumber is lower graded than an actual lumber yard. If budget isn't a concern, and you don't need 5x5 baltic birch, hit up a local lumber yard.
I've been woodworking for a little while now, but this was SO incredibly helpful! Navigating plywood in a home center can be head spinning. Thanks for breaking it down for us!
Thank you for commenting on putting things back after you go through them because when you go to get stuff off the other stack and end up the wrong stuff because you're not being observant can be a pain in the tooth
@@Fixthisbuildthat I agree they look amazing. I came here to the comment section to ask the same question. I have a second question, what finish did you use to keep the natural color?
Thank you, this was very educational, greatly appreciate this information!!! Previously, I didn't quite know about what those gradings meant. Man, the lumber yards in my area cost about 2-3x more than the home centers. Then even at the big box stores, I remember a time, I think it was before covid or the big lumber price run up, when hardwood like Oak was about 10% more than sande plywood. Nowadays, hardwood has been about 50% more. And the real lumber yards have been pretty snobby for the little guys like me. If anyone knows a good service lumber yard in the Denver area with good prices and sells to individuals, please share, thanks in advance.
Haha! I’m that girl outside with my circular saw cutting away!! 😅 Thanks for this info, I always get mixed up and sometimes I can’t find the nice stuff that I’ve used before, now I can ask for it by name 👍🏼
Great information on plywood. Thanks. I have found unfortunately at my local big box stores that you are pretty much on your own when it comes to getting the plywood off the rack and onto a cart and it is a bit of a beast for an old guy like me. It is a quite an adventure to purchase :). The commercial lumber yards in my area seem to be a bit irritated at selling to hobbyists as you are only buying one or two sheets. Aw shucks.
Go into the Building Dept, where the drywall is stacked. They sell these plastic-handled tools. Were as you hold the handle and place the sheet good on a ledge at the end of the tool. Your Left hand is on the top of the sheet. Only about $5.
Thank you for this tutorial. I've taken notes to it memorize all. It can be overwhelming try to figure out which plywoods and even tools to buy. I'm going to start making small pieces of furniture and closet shelving instead of paying an arm and a leg for over priced and poor quality pieces made of particle board.
I find the plywood nomenclature has changed quite a bit since I first started buying it in 1970 - 71. Yesterday, I needed a couple of sheets of plywood. I wanted 3/4" but didn't really care much about quality. My local store had 3/4" from $37 to well over $100. The nomenclature for the 3/4" $37 plywood was "3/4" sanded Shop". I asked the salespeople in lumber what that meant. The first 2 said something to the effect that it was plywood that you can use in your shop that's been sanded. The next person seemed a bit more aware saying the same thing but mentioning that there might be some minor defects in it. So I thought it sounded reasonable and ordered 2 sheets. I needed it for my shop and it would be nice if it were sanded and I think $37 was the price last I paid for some 3/4" birch plywood. I was even okay with some minor defects. I went to the racks and picked out the best two sheets I could find. Both sheets had 1 side sanded, the other side I would say is grade C. I'm not sure if the sanded side was supposed to be the good side but both sheets (as were all the other sheets in the rack) had large strips of missing ply on the face. But they'd used some kind of filler to (sort of) keep the rest of the face from peeling away. I was able to cut away some of the defects and install them into my new backyard shop for loft flooring. I already had 2 sheets of 3/4: MDO (another more recent nomenclature but much higher in quality with waterproofing and paper facing on both sides). It does make my shop lopsided with the different sheet qualities but no one will ever know;-). I'd like to also point out that, as a teenager working in my grandfather's shop, we made high quality speaker cabinets. I'm not sure if hardwood plywood existed but we made it, gluing Walnut veneers to high quality 3/4" plywood. It showed me that making plywood is a very difficult thing to do. We had to remake many cabinets due to some that were sold to different parts of the country having the walnut veneer split. Your videos are very informative. Thanks.
That glue filler plywood I got off craigslist from a guy selling seconds of plywood in some warehouse he rented. It worked for shed flooring and other uses he also had a inch plus cherry prestained that I found many uses for.
So as a grader in softwood plywood a shop panel must be 80% usable per panel which means it can have 20 % of the panel unusable. I my opinion it is not a small defect.
I took similar pictures back in July and August. Ships have been piled up for a long time. You can even see them with the naked eye from almost anywhere in Southern California coast.
Such great info for beginner DIYer. I feel so much better informed and hopefully my projects will now be so much nicer. Really appreciate your videos! Thanks so much!
Once you've got the perfect sheet of plywood. You want to make the most of it. I use Optimization software from Bridgewood design. I can input the quantity and size of parts I need and the software will show me a layout of the plywood with the cuts. This minimizes waste and If I'm short on material, I'll know right away. There is also one type of plywood home depot has from time to time. It's prefinished clear on both sides. Cuts clean and handles pocket screw very well. I like to use this pre-finished material for building kitchen cabinets as I don't have to spray or paint the inside. As for the exposed ends, I use a decorative panel for a custom look.
Great topic, Brad! Only have a Lowe's and a building supply store in my area unless I want to drive 65 miles away. The building supply store carries Baltic birch but only in 1/2 in thickness but they also have a small selection of domestic solid hardwoods. All the plywood at Lowe's is junk except for the hardwood variety so that's usually what I get - even if painting. (I dream of a Home Depot coming to my small town.) One thing I do like about Lowes though is they will discount plywood with damaged corners or edges (half price or more). That's what I usually look for - it will be cut off anyway and saves a ton of money! I have a love-hate relationship with MDF. The powdery dust is awful but it's fine for many things and is actually really durable as a flat work surface. For instance, I have it as the top for my table saw offcut table and it works great. It looks pretty decent when stained and a few coats of poly on top. It's also fairly cheap which is always a good thing.
yes, I wish I would have mentioned asking for discounts. I do that frequently and get 25 to 50% off sometimes for defects that are only in a small area with 80 or 90% still usable!
Great comment. I got a full sheet of 3/4" MDF with a damaged edge for half price. It was only needed for a router table top so losing a little was meaningless.
What a helpful video! I just purchased plywood sheets for my project and wish I watched this video! Do you mind making a video on "how/where to buy trims?"
I just did a bookcase with some 3/4" Red Oak (C3) plywood, and one of the sheets had a separated core layer. It popped apart as I was cutting it with my circular saw. So I definitely feel this lower quality product. Unfortunately, since I needed to rent a truck to get the lumber home, I had to make due, as a return was not really feasible.
What a great Vid. I've just started to use ply and have found my own way through the "Ply Maze" with minimal problems. Your vid had confirmed the same path that I had traversed. With only two suppliers in my town (Regional Queensland, Australia), the local store, Bunnings, sort of like Home Depot, manages to stock the A's through to "non structural" ply which I found suitable in lining my 40' x 20' shed as well as some AA hardwood (Red Oak) at the premium price of AU$205 (US$150) to make some of your projects. Keep the channel going. You make things look so easy. Great work.
Excellent video and super helpful for me. I had no idea what those letters were for the grades of plywood. I was just buying what looked clean and nice for whatever I was building.
Very useful clip.. Especially as my o/h wants me to build some modular wall units forming an entertainment computer storage system.. I'm not using mdf or chip... 12mm ply with an A or B face to take a stain and a finish.
Last time I went shopping for plywood there wasn’t one flat one to be seen. Everyone of them was warped, holes all the way along the edges and prices where higher than the International Space Station. 2x4x8’s SPF2 retail now at $9:49 Canadian and only good for hockey sticks. Seems most woods available today is floor sweepings glued together made to resemble their description. Finger jointed pine is also profiteering on offcuts, MDF is a cancer guarantee from the dust, the smooth surface once damaged is almost impossible to fix and try painting a cut edge 🤦♂️ You mention not to buy the first one on the top, makes sense unless the whole stack has no centre support so all boards are bent.
@@Tarkusine 100% correctomundo. Back in the Home Depot today in Edmonton Alberta. Man I have never seen such a disgusting display of poor choice of lumber at record pricing. There was a board of white melamine $98 bucks and only good for burning 🔥. Badly stacked and warped plywood sheets really no good for anything except a chicken coup or some other project that requires zero quality when done. Big box stores have no shame. For lumber best go to the private mill guys.
I have a hardwood supplier about an hour away that also handles high end plywood. I buy Baltic birch plywood in 5 x 5 sheets, they cut it in half for me at no cost. The cut offs are perfect for later use in drawers and jigs and fixtures.
Thanks for sharing this info. You mentioned sanded plywood, but you didn't mention Sande plywood, which is a marine grade plywood which i have used successfully for some furniture projects. The finish on them is usually pretty good and the price is reasonable
@@tawnygreene6230 Personally, I think going with a 3/4 inch plywood (sanded preferably) is your best bet. It requires little preparation, can be cut to size at the lumber area, and a couple coats of paint to finish it off. The home depot near me has 4x8 sheets of cabinet grade plywood for about $50. With the dimensions you need though, you would only get 3 shelves from a sheet of plywood. Whatever you do, don't use MDF.
Great video. You fit a whole lot of good info in it. Most of this I have learned by trial and error/mistake. I totally agree on the project panels. They are a waste for most of us but if you only need a 2'x2' or so piece then go for it. Like you I did a ton of research in my area and called every building supplier around. Some of those places are specifically geared toward cabinet grade plywood and have things like walnut veneer plywood but it is in the $100 range. I was lucky enough to find a hardwood supplier and they carry Baltic birch. The 5x5 panels can be a pain to deal with but it's definitely affordable and a better quality than what they have at Lowes and Home Depot.
Tip : NEVER let the big box store or even the lumber yard cut the exact dimensions you need. There is never a guarantee of squareness of their machines. Get it close and make the final cuts yourself.
@12:30 The Baltic Birch at Menards(first pronunciation was right btw), is pretty good quality with 13 plys, which I'm really glad for since there aren't a lot of other good options to get wood aside from Menards XD
Just to add a point about veneer if you are worried about sanding too much - Use a card scraper or stanley 12 to get a high quality sanded finish without removing too much waste. Test on a scrap piece to get the angle and desired depth.
Its very hard to get baltic birch that is not over 120 a sheet….( queens new york) I just love the birch for all my projects….your info is very good. Thanks!
I did the parking lot circular saw thing with my father-in-law and he got such a kick out of it. The store's saw was working, but I needed some really odd cuts that didn't go straight to the other side. It turned out great. The second time, my saw ran out of battery 3/4 of the way through, and I had to use a hand saw. :(
My local Home Depot had a limit on the "number of cuts" they would make per customer and so they got some hand saw action in their lot. I made sure to tell every customer that they just wouldn't help me inside.
I did this with sheets of foam insulation, and within a minute of starting my cuts, an orange-aproned employee was at my side grilling me on where I got the tools I was using. "Where did you get those tools?", he asked me bluntly. Pretty annoying.
@@Raytenecks Yup, I thought about going to find a manager after I was done, but then calmed down with the realization that there is a high amount of theft going on in big-box stores right now, and perhaps they were acting out of extreme caution. I wrote it off as them just doing their jobs...
There is also, pricey, aircraft grade plywood. Often a baltic birch or similar. Super spendy but no voids, hence aircraft grade. Aircraft spruce and specialists. But for that premium project where cost is no concern its something to think about. Great information. Thanks for the awesome videos!!!!
Thank you for suggesting that one should replace the plywood that’s been placed on the adjacent stack. As a Home Depot lumber person, this is among the most irritating things that a customer does.
As a customer I agree. And that should apply to ALL departments! Can't tell you how many times I have gone to get something, say a plumbing shut-off valve, searched for the right one, grab three more out of the bin only to get home and find out that two of them are the wrong ones. And while I'm at it...Push the cart back to one of the collection points the store provides. For crying out loud! You dragged the thing all through the store and out to your vehicle and you can't push it another fifty feet or so?! There I've said it, I feel a little better now. Well at least until the next time I go to the store!!
I almost exclusively get my plywood from the lumberyard now. It’s a better quality than the big box stores without the hassle. After the third time being unable to find the birch or sande ply at the home center I gave up. If I do get from the home center because of pricing, I will place an order online and have them pull it for me. I’ve only found one place near me to get Baltic birch and it is a woodworkers store. The plywood dealer that stocks it only sells wholesale.
Thank you Brad for this very informative video, I have been buying plywood for years for various projects and have never heard this before about the numbers and letters to determine quality. Keep up the good work!
Good video. Maybe on a future video you can point out that structurally plywood laying flat across rafters or joists is stronger in one direction than it is turned 90 degrees. I build a deck and regret putting the plywood on parallel to the joists instead of turned 90 degrees having the 8' or long direction going across the joists.
I have been that person out in the parking lot cutting wood. I was making a book shelf and the boards were too long to fit in my jeep. I knew how tall I needed to I cut them in the parking lot. Got a couple funny looks but more smiles and waves 🤣
There is a difference between the imports from China, Vietnam, Indonesia and USA domestic plywood. Domestic plywood normally does not have voids in the core and they come in pro-core/classic core. The pro-core has a layer of MDF next to the veneer and helps with chipping when you cross cut the grain on a panel and minimizes telegraphing. I suggest painters tape to assure a fine edge when cutting across the grain. The domestic panel is very flat so when sprayed with high gloss lacquer, you do not see the telegraphing or rise and fall of the veneer face. The domestic plywood we sell is normally A-1 or B-1/B-2 grades for making cabinets or furniture. We also purchase Baltic birch from Russia and it is cheaper than the domestic and better than the other imports. The imports can have core voids and telegraphing in the birch veneer face. Telegraphing is the up and down waves on the panel face. If you see millimeters on a piece of plywood; you know it is an import.
good info here. But I know Columbia Forest products is domestic and they definitely have voids and poplar cores. I've never seen a MDF core product at the home center. That stuff you're talking about is awesome but only available at specialty stores around here
I found a wholesalers that specialises in wood panels and they are cheaper than the local hardware store. They also have a greater variety of quality and larger than standard sizes. Down side is its delivery only which is not cheap so more economical to make a large order then storing becomes an issue for a home project worker. I'll probably place an order once I work out what my next 2-3 projects are going to be.
You forgot to mention that MDF is also heavy so structures built exclusively of mdf are more likely to collapse under their own weight (without any load) AND they are heavier so relocating these structures after construction is a PAIN.
Rockler locations have a really great selection! Just depends on your local store. Not sure if you've ever been to one of their stores but it's a woodworkers dream. You HAVE to check it out.
I agree, those small project boards are a waste of money, but I have found that the big box stores will give quite a discount on damaged 4x8 sheets. So next time you don't need a whole sheet, consider a sheet with some damage and save some money. p.s. you can always use that damaged part for jigs or spacers. 💖🌞🌵😷
Thank you so, so much for this information. I knew nothing about wood til now. I wish I knew back when I wanted to build shelves, but I intend to keep on building and need to know this things. Thanks a bunch.
"You can have that cut down with the panel saw at the store, if it's working." 🤣 If I had a dime for every time that saw wasn't working, or there there was no employee qualified to use the saw with dull blades no less. I'll just take the 4x8 sheets home and rip them myself, lol.
I find 3/4" MDF is good as a nice flat work surface (especially if you finish by using shellac or polyurethane on the surface), especially if there's plywood under it for support. Need a good friend to help transport 3/4" sheets of it though. lol.. I use 3/8" construction grade plywood for non-structural things like the "walls" of a box that will be added to a cat tree. I rip 2x4s in half for use as the framing inside the boxes with glue and brad nails to assemble it all - makes for a perfectly good box that'll be covered in carpet anyway.
Good video...if you want to build quality projects, stay away from the big box stores. I have a wood supplier here in Calif. that cares A1 plywood in Walnut, Mahogany, White Oak and Pecan/Hickory...but it is expensive. Well over $100 per 4x8 sheet. Their Baltic Birch is $196 for a 3/4x4x8, and $176 for a 4x8x1/2" sheet. Keep in mind that not all Baltic Birch is the same quality.
*If* it's true that there is fiberglass within plywood, that can be extremely dangerous to cut, not to mention they will have to label safety warnings when cutting plywood.
Actually here in Holland at my supplier there is a kind of super lightweight primed interieur ply that is reinforced with thin glasfiber bands sandwiched between the layers. Brilliant stuff for certain purposes and 0 problems cutting it.
Thanks Morning Brew for my daily biz news fix - sign up for free here cen.yt/mbfixthisbuildthat
I also live in Nashville -- what is the best place to grab baltic birch? I've gone to middle tn lumber and got Chinese birch, and I've gone to a local lumber yard in Columbia. The prices were so wildly different and the quality was hit or miss for either!
MDF is good for a cheap sandwich material. I can actually quote two examples that are extremely different from each other besides requiring a special room.
Had a lab that was shielded to 90 db down at 6GHz in the inner rooms - the whole place was made with MDF panels that were copper clad.
Needed to soak up a bunch of low frequency vibrations - used MDF and a roll of that thick vinyl sound deadening stuff to make panels that soaked up not just low end but almost everything off the DUT(device under test).
It's great for a lot of things except where weight or structural strength is a factor :-)
@@bitrot937 have you found anywhere in Nashville yet? I am in Huntsville and don't mind that drive
@@russellzauner what is MDF
@@bitrot937 where is plywood sold at
If you are going to paint it, you can mix the sawdust from your cutting with wood glue and press the mixture into any cracks and depressions to fill them in. Then when the glue cures you can sand it down like normal and have a smooth even surface to paint.
@@kickseek
True. An obvious fact but maybe not obvious to some.
That's what I was thinking.
I didnt know that. Good tip.
The "Sanded Ply" at Home depot isn't actually sanded ply.... well, it is S2S so technically it is sanded, but it's "Sande" ply (no d at the end). Sande is a species of wood used predominantly to make plywood. It looks like a typo on the tag at Home Depot... but it's not a typo :)
Very helpful information. This comment deserves more upvotes!
RIP offs....I'm sick of all these tricks and shameful ad word play these companies employ to make a sale....and let's not forget all these complacent companies that middle man these products in their stores are just as bad, if not a little worse....for example: lowes, home depot, ace...etc.
It's time to stop rewarding these companies with continued sales
Until they take some responsibility and change.
And NO it isnt the supply chain debacle we are suffering through at this time. Maybe some items but certainly not everything. The problem is deeper within these powerfull corporations. The supply chain excuse is just that an EXCUSE to shut down any discussions on the real issue(Corprate Greed) and also so to continue doing the customers dirty as they have been for so long....unchallenged,
And it’s often full of voids, at least when I buy it…lol
Made the mistake of buying this stuff. Smells awful.
WOW! EXACTLY. This guy obviously doesn't know that. Sande is a species of wood. Not sanded.
As a beginning woodworker, this was so darn helpful! I really didn't know the difference between the plywood...just kinda picked something. This was nicely laid ot, very clear! Thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
@@Fixthisbuildthat
Extremely good video..
I noticed the little dust effect...
I'm in the UK and work with boats..
Do you have marine ply? I usually use exterior or there are types that have a coating .. smooth or with various grip surfaces .. that are used on trailers, lorry's and.. boats .. also are in various colours and doesn't need painting some can be painted with certain types of paint and two .. edge on or at angle.. can be made waterproof with fibreglass tape and covered with batten...
@@Fixthisbuildthat Hey, thanks for posting this video. I work at Home Depot in the lumber part in my area, and there isn't any training on different types of plywood, their use cases, etc. This really helps, which is going to help me help customers. Thanks. Also, thank for telling the viewer/customers to put back their plywood when they are done looking. It can take up to 10-30 minutes cleaning up plywood. We could be using that time for cutting, helping you guys or dropping products. Have a good one
I feel bad for anyone getting started in wood now. The same shed that I built for my friend for $90 would cost me almost $500 now, and it only fits a lawnmower and rakes.
Until prices come down I have a nice new concrete pad and a tarp with tent stakes. LOL
Do yourself a favor and find actual woodwork suppliers, such as woodcraft, also working with exotics or high end hardwood panels is hyperexpensive, but veneer is not.
Nowadays youre a lot better off going direct to mills for stock and if you are actually doing the woodworking, jointing, planing, facing, finishing, Woodcraft has a lof of useful classes that are very informative and worth the time. They are also free a lot of the time.
This video was absolutely spot on for someone who are getting into woodworking and love plywood. Have been so confused!
I went to a hardwood dealer, the plywood was awesome, the guy brought it right to my truck and helped me slide in every sheet, thanked me for coming.
Parking lot carpentry is the way to go. I’m that girl with my DIY track saw guide. To often the saw at HD is terrible when it actually works and now they want to charge for two or more cuts. Heck the saw at the woodworking store was not in the best shape either but they did have awesome inventory.
It definitely works in a pinch, but there is a huge benefit to the panel saw for making long square cuts.
@danbert8 nothing a track saw and carpenters square couldn't do. That's my opinion, take it or leave it. And although that's my opinion...I still don't have a track saw...yet 😂
Can we all just cry together at how much things have gone up but also really thankful to get my shop back in a few weeks, we’ve been building and my tools have been in storage for a year and a half! This was a helpful refresher, we used to have a great place in Knoxville that had maple prefinished plywood and it was the most amazing thing to work with!
Mech Eng here. What is interesting is that the flexural stiffness of a sheet is proportional to the cube of its thickness (neglecting the fact that the orientation of the wood grain can vary from ply to ply). The 3/4" material is thus (0.75/0.5)^3 = 3.4x stiffer than 1/2".
Don’t you be coming here scaring people!
Thank, Landry B! I want to that.
There are some things that 3/4 is necessary for. There are other things, like drawers, that 1/2 or 1/4 is probably just fine & certainly 100% better than the average MDF drawers with cardboard bottoms from IKEA, Wayfair, & Amazon.
The Rockler folding mitre dado & a little stack of 1/4 inch plywood will mKe some pretty drawers!
Another option is to find a decent marine lumber supplier. I build wooden boats and some of the most incredible plywood you'll find is BS1088 rated Meranti or Okoume, especially the ones certified by Llyods of London. You'll pay almost $300 for a sheet of 18mm Okoume (almost 3/4"), but this is the stuff that they use in high end yachts so it's basically void-less and has about the same color as a good mahogany. The Okoume is very light and flexible while the Meranti is heavier and stiffer. Another plus is that you can get it in a large variety of thicknesses.
Great overview video! Love working with baltic birch! Another tip when at the big retailers - if you know you don't need a full sheet, have a look at the damaged options. You might be cutting off the corner or edge anyway for your project and if you ask for a discount at the checkout, you might save an extra 10-20%! *This may require manager approval, but usually the cashiers in the garden center or lumber center have that authority, at least up to a certain amount.
Home Depot no longer sells rejects or damaged wood to the public
As a 23 year retail employee at HD I want to say THANK YOU for the tip about returning the sheets back to the stack "The way you found them"! Nothing irritates us more tham shoppers sliding off to the next bay and LEAVING them there! Again , THANK YOU!
That's why they hire people to WORK in retail stores.
If I have to dig through the stack to find a sheet that isn’t damaged, I’m not restacking. I’m helping someone keep a job. They can restack it for the next guy.
@@MemoGrafix Its cleaning after someone elses mess. If I flip your cubicle, have i created extra work? Its your cubicle after all..
If you did not put the bad ones back on top I would not have to dig down to them
@@MemoGrafix If someone breaks your windows and steal your car stereos, it makes more work for many different people from cops, insurance agents, window installers, glass manufacturers, stereo manufactures, car stereo installers, alarm companies, hawk shops, etc. If your lucky someone could also kick a big dent in your door, just to make some more work for yah, that would also help boost your local economy, making your city a better place to live.
I made a cabinet recently. Back panel 2' x 4'. 3x 24x12" panels horizontal, 2x 22.5x12" for vertical top section, 2x 23.25x12" for the bottom section. Bottom section is open unshelved. I'm going to be mounting a couple things inside (a battery power tool rack, battery storage, and a row of bins). Top section I went 2 24x12" full overlay soft close hinged doors. 2 22x11" adjustable shelves. Frameless cabinet. I went with veneered plywood from home Depot, I forget the brand, but it's 3/4 inch walnut veneered. I ordered 1x 2x4' piece and either 6 or 7 2x2' sheets. The quality on these are amazing. Didn't find a single void. I inspected every sheet (they were boxed nicely, protected, delivered to my door) and they were perfect! Tho I think the 2x4' was $40 and the 2x2' were about $19-22. There were also sheets that were advertised as 2 face veneered. Thinking that these only had veneer on one side, I ordered a roll of veneer as well. Life lesson. These were veneered on both sides.
This was my first actual woodworking/carpentry project ever, at 43 years old 😂 I did a lot of research along the way and opted to go for pocket holes instead of brad nailing. The Kreg pocket hole jig set was only about $40, another $10 or so for a box of 1 1/4" pocket hole screws (the appropriate size for 3/4 wood) and a box of plugs for the holes was about $5. Much cheaper than an air compressor and Brad nailer, or an electric Brad nailer that would be good enough. Ended up getting the Kreg adjustable shelf jig for drilling the holes for the pegs, a Kreg concealed hinge jig, and the Kreg 24" circular saw guide rail system. For the finish, I used boiled linseed oil, then finished with polycrylic satin. I probably spent a total, with all the jigs and wood and hardware, twice+ what I could have got a quality pre built for, but it was an exciting and fun project, and it's a great feeling every time I look at it and realize, "I built that." It looks as good as any American made pre-built. Not sure what my original point was for posting this comment, but here it is, so..
That string in your plywood comes from the manufacturing process. When the veneer strips are put together for the cross grain layers (the cores), they are held together by that glued string so they can be easily layered in the boards.
A typical 5 layer sheet is constructed by stacking a back, a core, a center, another core, and a face. Backs, centers and faces are three different grades of veneers.
Holes in the veneers from the curvature of the logs are called "wanes". I've actually seen boards in the stores with huge wanes in the backs.
@@jimhabsfan I used to work at Moncure Plywood in Moncure, North Carolina. It's Southern Veneer Specialty Products now.
They can make several plywood products, but they specialize in hardwood plywood (Poplar and Sweetgum) for the furniture industry.
So your explanation of plywood grades is pretty good, I have worked in plywood manufacturing for 30+ years, I have sanded and graded softwood for many years and am now going to the brand new hardwood line . The plys vary according to thickness, the grading is more to face and core gaps, normal Finnish sand in softwood is 60 grit. Thank you for this education for the masses.
I'm the guys with a circular saw in the back of the parking lot. Lady paid me to cut her lumber. Whole trip to lowes was basically free to me
Have saw, will travel. lol
At my local lowes if you want stuff cut it takes freakin forever, they are horribly understaffed. I have a tracksaw and circular saw, they can't beat me
The local one used to do the cuts for free but a couple of years ago started making sure they applied their charge. Rechargeable saw is on the list...
@@chaos.corner Choose your brand wisely. Some wobble. I use Ridgid but Flex and Kobalt are good.
Lies. Lowes cuts the lumber for the customers
I've been using leftover scrap plywood, but starting to run out, and just as I'm about to do a complete garage reorganization. This came at a perfect time for me, and very helpful advice.
Thank you for encouraging others to put back the culled plywood for the rest of us - thoughtful!
That's the way the new gen rolls...You have to beat them to the fresh stack as usual; it is a real crowd-pleaser when it happens to them. Excellent content.
So a knowledgeable customer comes into the store to buy plywood that is extremely over priced by an over paid exec that knows nothing about wood or plywood from HD and Lowes. He knows that he is getting ripped off but he needs the plywood to build his project so that he can feed his family and put a roof over his head. He starts pulling reject sheets of plywood off the stack that other people have put back on top of the stack. He removes a few sheets and finally finds a sheet that is somewhat acceptable and decides to take it while really wishing he had more time to hunt for a better sheet; but time is money and wasted time is wasted money. Why because HD and Lowes wants to sell a crappy sheet of plywood for the same over inflated price as a good sheet and want the customer to do all the work. That is why I don't restack the plywood. HD and Lowes doesn't give a rats turd about their customer, they only care about the all-mighty dollar.
Radiata Ply is FANTASTIC for any project! Before the supply crunch it was $30.95 per sheet at the orange store. Fantastic value! Wish they sold that same type in a 1/2" sheet. At $57 per sheet now I get birch ply at my RAW wood supplier at $65. Not baltic birch, straight birch. Baltic Birch is same price but in a 5x5 sheet, so less area per sheet. If the sheet has a bow it will not go away, never. You can force it straight but move on to another sheet. it's not worth the worry!
If you see dye marks that are parallel to the grain, pass that sheet up. It means the glue didn't set where the marks are drawn. (Don't worry about dye marks across the grain. They mean it took two passes for that veneer to dry)
What is a "dye mark" and how do I see it...where would I see it?
@@troybush5899 It's a color, like red, blue or green. It'll be on one side of the board.
You have no idea how happy I was to find this video! I'm a complete beginner and when I find plans for things they don't indicate specifics like what type of plywood to purchase and it's overwhelming.
Fantastic advice all around! I wondered what type of wood my bookcase was made of that melted in the flood. That's what convinced me to buy only hardwood furniture from then on. Also appreciated the tip on how to rifle through wood stacks to find the one you like, much like a shirt on display.
oh yeah, definitely made of MDF if it "melted" lol
I have a Corolla and have in years past had the big box stores inaccurately cut my lumber so, I do it myself in the parking lot all the time! Did so just yesterday to breakdown a 2x12x12!
UA-cam should only allow informative and professional videos like this one.
Fantastic video.
GREAT information buddy... I learned a few things that will for sure help me out BIG TIME! When it comes to sheet goods, I know very little but not anymore, lol.
Good video. Thank you for posting.
1) I loved your dusty demolition of the dust text. That was awesome.
2) I appreciate you putting prices. Even though they will vary with time and location, it is still helpful to see the comparison.
good video and a good start to help educate people on sheet goods. It can be very confusing for many. And that is just what is available at the local big box store. For some real fun have people start exploring the sheet goods available at a hardwood store. Tons of options and also reflected in the price. Just a couple notes that may be helpful. You can easily find standard particle board in 4x8 sheets, or go with industrial grade particle board that has better density and comes in a standard of 49x97 inches. It's great when you need a bunch of 24" rips that you cant get from standard 4x8 sheets due to your saw kerf. You can also find it in lengths up to 12' in length. I had a cabinet shop for several years and we and we often used a product that was melamine on one side with an MDF core and the other side was called rawback. So on one side you had melamine and the other side had a laminate finish that was kind of a mottled looking yellow. It was great on panels where one side was not exposed as it provides great stability. And of course it goes on and on, that I'm sure you know, but avoided as the video would become overwhelming to many. Where I live now, in the middle of nowhere Nebraska (due to the awesome bird hunting) we have Menards as our big box store (75 miles away is the closest) and they have these cute little 22x22" pieces of what they call baltic birch in 1/2". It is 9 ply which is correct for 1/2" baltic birch, but it does have a few (very few) small voids. But they sell them for just a couple dollars each. They are perfect for templates and drawer sides. Just thought I would open the door for those interested to the fact that there are many more types of sheet goods than can be addressed in a single video and the full array may make you crazy. Most baltic birch comes in an odd size of 5x5' but menards has a product that is in 4x8 sheets. I have not purchased any so cant say I cant comment on the quality. Another product similar to Baltic birch is Finnish Plywood. It is similar to baltic birch in the number of plys but it is made with waterproof glue. So if you have liked what this video addressed (and you should like it) you may want to explore even further. Good luck and have fun.
Where i worked (in eu) we had commercial and professional prices, just sign the sign-in sheet and you could get up to 60% off compared to regular prices. Well worth checking out if your local wood supplier has something similar.
P.s If youre a beginner woodworker i highly recommend going metric from the start, can save you alot of math related headaches.
Meh.. coming from a metric country to imperial here I found I could use both pretty easily and accurately so I guess it's personal preference.
...then spend all your time converting back to Imperial because all your tools are that way.....
I’ve got a CNC due to arrive in a week or so and am considering converting to metric. I end up working with hundredths and thousandths of an inch … seems more reasonable to go metric.
BEST description ever of plywoods. Funny too. I laughed and laughed (I'm a "girl" (plus a few decades) and I have a Prius). I often have to get my first 3 or 5 cuts free so I can fit the pieces in my car. Thanks for the excellent advice. This is a keeper!
I really loved your suggestion about putting back the sheets that you moved. So many people just mess up the stacks and leave it in a mess. Loved your video also.
Thank you, I always pick through the stack and then put em back. I always seem to find the better pieces down in the stack as I'm sure I'm not the only one that goes through them. It's worth it, especially with today's prices.
I have seen a thin slice of metal epoxied to the edge of a 1/2" thick plywood for a 6-foot shelf span. It was quite strong and stable, and the use of 1/2" plywood made it look very elegant. It is astonishing how cool it looks when creating things with undersized material, as long as they are appropriately strengthened with unseen bracers.
Lol. I'm so glad you mentioned cutting in the parking lot. Its great for anyone who doesn't own a truck or just wants to save some gas.
Very timely post! Be careful ordering from a plywood supplier when you can't see the material before delivery. Selection and quality has been beyond terrible lately (think wavy potato chips) and the 3/4 Indonesian birch ply they sent was actually 11/16. I have 3 different sizes of "1/4 mdf" in the shop (1/4, 15/64, 7/32) which causes problems when making doors and drawers with 1/4 and 7/32 router bits. Hopefully the supply chain gets fixed soon. Can't find baltic birch or blum runners anywhere in stock.
Very informative. Thank you for reminding about restacking the playwood that you move. It is a pain to move plywood back when you need the plywood under all the wrong plywood. Mom always said "Leave things better than how you found them"
Been building subwoofer enclosures for 20 years, MDF all day every day...maybe some glass mixed in as well. People will use ply as well but usually larger builds. I've also used MDF in some smaller projects just with how easy and stable it is to work with.
yes, that's a perfect application for MDF
How do you fasten with mdf ?
@@DanielMalkokian nail and glue usually works best.
@@DanielMalkokian use a circular saw blade rated for MDF to do the cuts
for sure MDF has less resonance and is stiffer
Watching this in late 2022 and the prices your throwing out makes me smile with good memories.
Watching in late 2024 and hopeful things will get better.
Great video. I don’t have a truck so I used to buy project panels primarily because that’s all that fits in the car. I felt embarrassed when you explained how project panels are so overpriced. I needed one 2x4 1/2 and one 2x4 1/4 ply. After going to HD and doing the math, I realized it was “cheaper” to buy full sheets instead of the project panels even after including the price of renting their truck.
Get a minivan or a trailer. My 12' trailer will carry more than any pickup anyway. The
other option is that one cut of the panel is usually free so you can cut the full sheet in two in the store.
You earned my subscription with the tip about bringing the circular saw to the store for a 4x8 sheet!!! Genius! My vehicle has a 110v outlet built-in so this is perfect!
The vehicles outlet inverter likely won't handle the amps of a saw like that....check before you go
The C-rated surface plywood from the local lumber yard has a cleaner and smoother surface than the A-rated from the big-box stores.
truth
Second this, Home Store lumber is lower graded than an actual lumber yard. If budget isn't a concern, and you don't need 5x5 baltic birch, hit up a local lumber yard.
And it’s sandable. Perfect for paint grade.
Your mileage may vary.
What would you recommend for gym flooring that go over rubber mats? Prefer sturdy plywood?
I've been woodworking for a little while now, but this was SO incredibly helpful! Navigating plywood in a home center can be head spinning. Thanks for breaking it down for us!
Thank you for commenting on putting things back after you go through them because when you go to get stuff off the other stack and end up the wrong stuff because you're not being observant can be a pain in the tooth
What did you make your workshop cabinets out of? They look amazing!!! Loved the info thanks and keep ‘em coming.
they are all out of baltic birch 😀
@@Fixthisbuildthat I agree they look amazing. I came here to the comment section to ask the same question. I have a second question, what finish did you use to keep the natural color?
Thank you, this was very educational, greatly appreciate this information!!! Previously, I didn't quite know about what those gradings meant. Man, the lumber yards in my area cost about 2-3x more than the home centers. Then even at the big box stores, I remember a time, I think it was before covid or the big lumber price run up, when hardwood like Oak was about 10% more than sande plywood. Nowadays, hardwood has been about 50% more. And the real lumber yards have been pretty snobby for the little guys like me. If anyone knows a good service lumber yard in the Denver area with good prices and sells to individuals, please share, thanks in advance.
Haha! I’m that girl outside with my circular saw cutting away!! 😅
Thanks for this info, I always get mixed up and sometimes I can’t find the nice stuff that I’ve used before, now I can ask for it by name 👍🏼
Never heard of the letter/number system before today. Granted I was not building cabinets before this year either. So thank you for all of this!!
Great information on plywood. Thanks. I have found unfortunately at my local big box stores that you are pretty much on your own when it comes to getting the plywood off the rack and onto a cart and it is a bit of a beast for an old guy like me. It is a quite an adventure to purchase :). The commercial lumber yards in my area seem to be a bit irritated at selling to hobbyists as you are only buying one or two sheets. Aw shucks.
Go into the Building Dept, where the drywall is stacked. They sell these plastic-handled tools. Were as you hold the handle and place the sheet good on a ledge at the end of the tool. Your Left hand is on the top of the sheet. Only about $5.
@@WallyFuller Thanks so much for the trip. I will give it a try.
Thank you for this tutorial. I've taken notes to it memorize all. It can be overwhelming try to figure out which plywoods and even tools to buy. I'm going to start making small pieces of furniture and closet shelving instead of paying an arm and a leg for over priced and poor quality pieces made of particle board.
I find the plywood nomenclature has changed quite a bit since I first started buying it in 1970 - 71. Yesterday, I needed a couple of sheets of plywood. I wanted 3/4" but didn't really care much about quality. My local store had 3/4" from $37 to well over $100. The nomenclature for the 3/4" $37 plywood was "3/4" sanded Shop". I asked the salespeople in lumber what that meant. The first 2 said something to the effect that it was plywood that you can use in your shop that's been sanded. The next person seemed a bit more aware saying the same thing but mentioning that there might be some minor defects in it. So I thought it sounded reasonable and ordered 2 sheets. I needed it for my shop and it would be nice if it were sanded and I think $37 was the price last I paid for some 3/4" birch plywood. I was even okay with some minor defects.
I went to the racks and picked out the best two sheets I could find. Both sheets had 1 side sanded, the other side I would say is grade C. I'm not sure if the sanded side was supposed to be the good side but both sheets (as were all the other sheets in the rack) had large strips of missing ply on the face. But they'd used some kind of filler to (sort of) keep the rest of the face from peeling away.
I was able to cut away some of the defects and install them into my new backyard shop for loft flooring. I already had 2 sheets of 3/4: MDO (another more recent nomenclature but much higher in quality with waterproofing and paper facing on both sides). It does make my shop lopsided with the different sheet qualities but no one will ever know;-).
I'd like to also point out that, as a teenager working in my grandfather's shop, we made high quality speaker cabinets. I'm not sure if hardwood plywood existed but we made it, gluing Walnut veneers to high quality 3/4" plywood. It showed me that making plywood is a very difficult thing to do. We had to remake many cabinets due to some that were sold to different parts of the country having the walnut veneer split.
Your videos are very informative. Thanks.
That glue filler plywood I got off craigslist from a guy selling seconds of plywood in some warehouse he rented. It worked for shed flooring and other uses he also had a inch plus cherry prestained that I found many uses for.
So as a grader in softwood plywood a shop panel must be 80% usable per panel which means it can have 20 % of the panel unusable. I my opinion it is not a small defect.
I took similar pictures back in July and August. Ships have been piled up for a long time. You can even see them with the naked eye from almost anywhere in Southern California coast.
Such great info for beginner DIYer. I feel so much better informed and hopefully my projects will now be so much nicer. Really appreciate your videos! Thanks so much!
Once you've got the perfect sheet of plywood. You want to make the most of it. I use Optimization software from Bridgewood design. I can input the quantity and size of parts I need and the software will show me a layout of the plywood with the cuts. This minimizes waste and If I'm short on material, I'll know right away. There is also one type of plywood home depot has from time to time. It's prefinished clear on both sides. Cuts clean and handles pocket screw very well. I like to use this pre-finished material for building kitchen cabinets as I don't have to spray or paint the inside. As for the exposed ends, I use a decorative panel for a custom look.
You didn’t mention MDO ply. I use it when coating out the face with paint. It’s very smooth and it’s reasonable in cost.
I moved to Florida from the Midwest this summer… can’t tell you how much I miss Menards’ lumber section!
i've only heard the stories about it, lol
If it’s working lol…. Those Home Depot saws are like McDonalds ice cream machines!
haha, no doubt
LOL =) Funny you mention, our panel saw just flung a belt.
@@Fixthisbuildthat That's in every country the same problem.
In store guys don't have authority to maintain them.... some liability BS.
Sad.
Or nobody wants to operate them.
Thanks!
appreciate the Super Thanks!
Great topic, Brad! Only have a Lowe's and a building supply store in my area unless I want to drive 65 miles away. The building supply store carries Baltic birch but only in 1/2 in thickness but they also have a small selection of domestic solid hardwoods. All the plywood at Lowe's is junk except for the hardwood variety so that's usually what I get - even if painting. (I dream of a Home Depot coming to my small town.) One thing I do like about Lowes though is they will discount plywood with damaged corners or edges (half price or more). That's what I usually look for - it will be cut off anyway and saves a ton of money!
I have a love-hate relationship with MDF. The powdery dust is awful but it's fine for many things and is actually really durable as a flat work surface. For instance, I have it as the top for my table saw offcut table and it works great. It looks pretty decent when stained and a few coats of poly on top. It's also fairly cheap which is always a good thing.
yes, I wish I would have mentioned asking for discounts. I do that frequently and get 25 to 50% off sometimes for defects that are only in a small area with 80 or 90% still usable!
@@Fixthisbuildthat maybe do another one with 5 tips instead of 5 mistakes
I'm definitely asking about a discount next time because my Lowes is awful.
Great comment. I got a full sheet of 3/4" MDF with a damaged edge for half price. It was only needed for a router table top so losing a little was meaningless.
What a helpful video! I just purchased plywood sheets for my project and wish I watched this video! Do you mind making a video on "how/where to buy trims?"
Great suggestion!
YES MAKE MORE OF THIS CONTENT! very knowledgeable, thank you!
you're welcome!
Thanks so much for this video! As a beginer woodworker i get so confuse trying to by the plywood. Thank you, thank you.
I just did a bookcase with some 3/4" Red Oak (C3) plywood, and one of the sheets had a separated core layer. It popped apart as I was cutting it with my circular saw. So I definitely feel this lower quality product. Unfortunately, since I needed to rent a truck to get the lumber home, I had to make due, as a return was not really feasible.
I am a total beginner about to do up a house in Tennessee, too, so this was super helpful, thanks so much!
Tip #6: wear gloves when handling plywood at the store. Some of those sheets on top can be very splintery.
What type of gloves would you recommend? I want to get into woodworking with my father .
@@nerdgeekcosplay909 I use TIG welding gloves for feel and a good protection
you bought back memories of working there, most wood had large splinters on the sides
What a great Vid. I've just started to use ply and have found my own way through the "Ply Maze" with minimal problems. Your vid had confirmed the same path that I had traversed. With only two suppliers in my town (Regional Queensland, Australia), the local store, Bunnings, sort of like Home Depot, manages to stock the A's through to "non structural" ply which I found suitable in lining my 40' x 20' shed as well as some AA hardwood (Red Oak) at the premium price of AU$205 (US$150) to make some of your projects. Keep the channel going. You make things look so easy. Great work.
That's a pretty amazing selection for one store! I'm in a large metroplex in Texas, USA and if I want that kind of selection I have to shop around.
Terrific video Brad! I knew about some of the info that you discussed but also learned a lot from this video. Thanks & Happy Building! 👍👍😉😉
thanks, Steve!
Excellent video and super helpful for me. I had no idea what those letters were for the grades of plywood. I was just buying what looked clean and nice for whatever I was building.
Melamine is perfect for people who enjoy the feeling of gravel getting shot at their face. That’s what it feels like ripping it on a table saw.
I use an inexpensive clear face shield and am a happy camper
Facts
Maybe a different blade... but that's a whole different topic.
😅😅😅
Very useful clip.. Especially as my o/h wants me to build some modular wall units forming an entertainment computer storage system.. I'm not using mdf or chip... 12mm ply with an A or B face to take a stain and a finish.
Last time I went shopping for plywood there wasn’t one flat one to be seen. Everyone of them was warped, holes all the way along the edges and prices where higher than the International Space Station. 2x4x8’s SPF2 retail now at $9:49 Canadian and only good for hockey sticks. Seems most woods available today is floor sweepings glued together made to resemble their description. Finger jointed pine is also profiteering on offcuts, MDF is a cancer guarantee from the dust, the smooth surface once damaged is almost impossible to fix and try painting a cut edge 🤦♂️ You mention not to buy the first one on the top, makes sense unless the whole stack has no centre support so all boards are bent.
Canada keeps all the bad corkscrew lumber and ships the good stuff to the US. Sad but true.
@@Tarkusine 100% correctomundo. Back in the Home Depot today in Edmonton Alberta. Man I have never seen such a disgusting display of poor choice of lumber at record pricing. There was a board of white melamine $98 bucks and only good for burning 🔥. Badly stacked and warped plywood sheets really no good for anything except a chicken coup or some other project that requires zero quality when done. Big box stores have no shame. For lumber best go to the private mill guys.
I have a hardwood supplier about an hour away that also handles high end plywood. I buy Baltic birch plywood in 5 x 5 sheets, they cut it in half for me at no cost. The cut offs are perfect for later use in drawers and jigs and fixtures.
Thanks for sharing this info. You mentioned sanded plywood, but you didn't mention Sande plywood, which is a marine grade plywood which i have used successfully for some furniture projects. The finish on them is usually pretty good and the price is reasonable
I'm tying to figure out what to use to build shelves in my pantry. They'll be 50 x 14 wide and I plan to paint them white. Any suggestions?
@@tawnygreene6230 Personally, I think going with a 3/4 inch plywood (sanded preferably) is your best bet. It requires little preparation, can be cut to size at the lumber area, and a couple coats of paint to finish it off. The home depot near me has 4x8 sheets of cabinet grade plywood for about $50. With the dimensions you need though, you would only get 3 shelves from a sheet of plywood. Whatever you do, don't use MDF.
@@billroufs7910 Thank you that is super helpful! And I'll steer clear of the mdf! 😊
Thank You, Thank You, Thank You! I wish I had seen this before I bought that piece of MDF, good thing it was just a small piece and not a whole sheet.
Great video. You fit a whole lot of good info in it. Most of this I have learned by trial and error/mistake. I totally agree on the project panels. They are a waste for most of us but if you only need a 2'x2' or so piece then go for it. Like you I did a ton of research in my area and called every building supplier around. Some of those places are specifically geared toward cabinet grade plywood and have things like walnut veneer plywood but it is in the $100 range. I was lucky enough to find a hardwood supplier and they carry Baltic birch. The 5x5 panels can be a pain to deal with but it's definitely affordable and a better quality than what they have at Lowes and Home Depot.
oh yeah, you can't go wrong with a good baltic birch
This is awesome. I’ve been planning a platform bed and went down the plywood isle and had 0 idea what was going on
Tip : NEVER let the big box store or even the lumber yard cut the exact dimensions you need. There is never a guarantee of squareness of their machines. Get it close and make the final cuts yourself.
@12:30 The Baltic Birch at Menards(first pronunciation was right btw), is pretty good quality with 13 plys, which I'm really glad for since there aren't a lot of other good options to get wood aside from Menards XD
Just to add a point about veneer if you are worried about sanding too much - Use a card scraper or stanley 12 to get a high quality sanded finish without removing too much waste. Test on a scrap piece to get the angle and desired depth.
Its very hard to get baltic birch that is not over 120 a sheet….( queens new york)
I just love the birch for all my projects….your info is very good. Thanks!
I did the parking lot circular saw thing with my father-in-law and he got such a kick out of it. The store's saw was working, but I needed some really odd cuts that didn't go straight to the other side. It turned out great.
The second time, my saw ran out of battery 3/4 of the way through, and I had to use a hand saw. :(
🤣🤣🤣 some of us did the same thing.
My local Home Depot had a limit on the "number of cuts" they would make per customer and so they got some hand saw action in their lot. I made sure to tell every customer that they just wouldn't help me inside.
I did this with sheets of foam insulation, and within a minute of starting my cuts, an orange-aproned employee was at my side grilling me on where I got the tools I was using. "Where did you get those tools?", he asked me bluntly. Pretty annoying.
@@imacmill So rude and stupid. I'm sure their manager wouldn't want that. If they didn't give up immediately I'd have asked for manager.
@@Raytenecks Yup, I thought about going to find a manager after I was done, but then calmed down with the realization that there is a high amount of theft going on in big-box stores right now, and perhaps they were acting out of extreme caution. I wrote it off as them just doing their jobs...
There is also, pricey, aircraft grade plywood. Often a baltic birch or similar. Super spendy but no voids, hence aircraft grade. Aircraft spruce and specialists. But for that premium project where cost is no concern its something to think about. Great information. Thanks for the awesome videos!!!!
Thank you for suggesting that one should replace the plywood that’s been placed on the adjacent stack. As a Home Depot lumber person, this is among the most irritating things that a customer does.
As a customer I agree. And that should apply to ALL departments! Can't tell you how many times I have gone to get something, say a plumbing shut-off valve, searched for the right one, grab three more out of the bin only to get home and find out that two of them are the wrong ones. And while I'm at it...Push the cart back to one of the collection points the store provides. For crying out loud! You dragged the thing all through the store and out to your vehicle and you can't push it another fifty feet or so?!
There I've said it, I feel a little better now. Well at least until the next time I go to the store!!
My God I was about to say the same thing!! Along with leaving it standing up for someone to get hurt.
Dont you get paid by the hour? Trash wood on top has to be moved. Do your own job!
I almost exclusively get my plywood from the lumberyard now. It’s a better quality than the big box stores without the hassle. After the third time being unable to find the birch or sande ply at the home center I gave up. If I do get from the home center because of pricing, I will place an order online and have them pull it for me.
I’ve only found one place near me to get Baltic birch and it is a woodworkers store. The plywood dealer that stocks it only sells wholesale.
Thank you Brad for this very informative video, I have been buying plywood for years for various projects and have never heard this before about the numbers and letters to determine quality.
Keep up the good work!
Good video. Maybe on a future video you can point out that structurally plywood laying flat across rafters or joists is stronger in one direction than it is turned 90 degrees. I build a deck and regret putting the plywood on parallel to the joists instead of turned 90 degrees having the 8' or long direction going across the joists.
Tip: If you get it cut at the store, pay attention the facing of the plywood to avoid tear out on the good side.
Good side up, where the saw penetrates, not where it exits.
I have been that person out in the parking lot cutting wood. I was making a book shelf and the boards were too long to fit in my jeep. I knew how tall I needed to I cut them in the parking lot. Got a couple funny looks but more smiles and waves 🤣
There is a difference between the imports from China, Vietnam, Indonesia and USA domestic plywood. Domestic plywood normally does not have voids in the core and they come in pro-core/classic core. The pro-core has a layer of MDF next to the veneer and helps with chipping when you cross cut the grain on a panel and minimizes telegraphing. I suggest painters tape to assure a fine edge when cutting across the grain. The domestic panel is very flat so when sprayed with high gloss lacquer, you do not see the telegraphing or rise and fall of the veneer face. The domestic plywood we sell is normally A-1 or B-1/B-2 grades for making cabinets or furniture. We also purchase Baltic birch from Russia and it is cheaper than the domestic and better than the other imports. The imports can have core voids and telegraphing in the birch veneer face. Telegraphing is the up and down waves on the panel face. If you see millimeters on a piece of plywood; you know it is an import.
good info here. But I know Columbia Forest products is domestic and they definitely have voids and poplar cores. I've never seen a MDF core product at the home center. That stuff you're talking about is awesome but only available at specialty stores around here
Can’t see anyone getting Russian plywood for the next foreseeable 100 years.
@@richardshort4587 Russia will sell it to someone else and they will then sell it to the US.
I found a wholesalers that specialises in wood panels and they are cheaper than the local hardware store. They also have a greater variety of quality and larger than standard sizes. Down side is its delivery only which is not cheap so more economical to make a large order then storing becomes an issue for a home project worker. I'll probably place an order once I work out what my next 2-3 projects are going to be.
You forgot to mention that MDF is also heavy so structures built exclusively of mdf are more likely to collapse under their own weight (without any load) AND they are heavier so relocating these structures after construction is a PAIN.
A 3/4" MDF, 4X8 Sheet, weighs about 100 pounds.
Rockler locations have a really great selection! Just depends on your local store. Not sure if you've ever been to one of their stores but it's a woodworkers dream. You HAVE to check it out.
True, if you don't mind paying 100-150% MORE for what you can purchase at a professional lumber company rather than a "Hobby Store"!
I agree, those small project boards are a waste of money, but I have found that the big box stores will give quite a discount on damaged 4x8 sheets. So next time you don't need a whole sheet, consider a sheet with some damage and save some money. p.s. you can always use that damaged part for jigs or spacers. 💖🌞🌵😷
Thank you so, so much for this information. I knew nothing about wood til now. I wish I knew back when I wanted to build shelves, but I intend to keep on building and need to know this things. Thanks a bunch.
good warning on the project panels! the prices on those things are borderline criminal!
yeah, it's insane
We have a local store here called Alva Hardwoods, I was in Awe, I never knew there were so many varieties of woods!! Purple Heart!!!
"You can have that cut down with the panel saw at the store, if it's working." 🤣
If I had a dime for every time that saw wasn't working, or there there was no employee qualified to use the saw with dull blades no less.
I'll just take the 4x8 sheets home and rip them myself, lol.
I have no way to carry a 4x8. The last vehicle i owned that would fit that was a AMC Pacer.
I find 3/4" MDF is good as a nice flat work surface (especially if you finish by using shellac or polyurethane on the surface), especially if there's plywood under it for support. Need a good friend to help transport 3/4" sheets of it though. lol..
I use 3/8" construction grade plywood for non-structural things like the "walls" of a box that will be added to a cat tree. I rip 2x4s in half for use as the framing inside the boxes with glue and brad nails to assemble it all - makes for a perfectly good box that'll be covered in carpet anyway.
Good video...if you want to build quality projects, stay away from the big box stores. I have a wood supplier here in Calif. that cares A1 plywood in Walnut, Mahogany, White Oak and Pecan/Hickory...but it is expensive. Well over $100 per 4x8 sheet. Their Baltic Birch is $196 for a 3/4x4x8, and $176 for a 4x8x1/2" sheet. Keep in mind that not all Baltic Birch is the same quality.
yep, the best quality is not at the box stores that's for sure
Great info. Our Baltic birch in Norther Utah is about $135 a sheet for 3/4. It’s nuts!
*If* it's true that there is fiberglass within plywood, that can be extremely dangerous to cut, not to mention they will have to label safety warnings when cutting plywood.
It's not really fiberglass, just some junk plastic
Actually here in Holland at my supplier there is a kind of super lightweight primed interieur ply that is reinforced with thin glasfiber bands sandwiched between the layers.
Brilliant stuff for certain purposes and 0 problems cutting it.